@notaname: I don't recall it being ever debunked. The only "debunk" i saw was someone literally admitting that he was lowballing the higher dimensional statements, but GO had contradictions that seemingly made that lowballed interpretation valid. Except that CCC takes place in the Universe of Record. It explicitly is stated to work differently and have different laws. So nothing from GO actually contradicts it.
This is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell‘s core. Pseudo-Spiritrons are made of light, and it’s warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates “that address doesn’t exist” to anyone/anything attempting to pass.
It’s actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.
The only thing that can serve as a bridge across the borderline to connect Moon Cell‘s core to the normal address space is the arena that Moon Cell made to summon the victor of the Holy Grail War.
…Is how it’s supposed to be, but BB used an imaginary number space to force herself to become an infinite concept,
and by using a fake arena she managed to break past the borderline.-Fate/Extra Material.
@crimsonslayer85: ight, its just that i recall seeing a debunking thread a while ago basically throwing the whole thing up to mistranslation and misinterpretation, seems pretty solid to me tho
We can also use dimension scaling for Xenoverse. Like Demigra sees the multiverse as fiction and base Goku>Chamel>>>Third form Demigra
If Demigra sees the Multiverse in fiction, then everyone in DB is bound by the concept of Destiny, that Multiverse too is bound by the Concept of Destiny as Time is fixed and all characters have no freedom as the future is already pre-existing and predetermined.
The DB Xeno Multiverse is an Eternalist Multiverse, the weakest kind of Multiverse any decent Multiversal with good Time powers can destroy. Even Post-Retcon Beyonder can destroy that and he is kind of a low end Multiversal being lmao.
So how is that supposed to be impressive? At least Gilgamesh, when he's Multiversal, the Multiverse has unbounded possibilities, in fact, Gilgamesh isn't bound by the Concept of Destiny, so seeing something as fiction is meaningless since Gilgamesh isn't bound by an R>F layer, no one is writing his destiny, as he has freedom and he can excercise over possibilities that are not set in stone and has freedom.
It's like trying to bring up matter manipulation in a versus debate between two ghosts, R>F layer transcendences are meaningless here between two beings that are not bound by Eternalist Time.
The majority of the scans do not come from Fate CCC.
Second, no one disagrees that the cosmology of Fate contains infinite timelines. what we disagree with is the idea that the MoonCell itself contain containing Infinite timeline. Which still isn't confirmed in any of these scans that actually talk about mooncell . It only refers to infinite possibilities not worlds or timelines.
Or the idea that CCC Gilgamesh or BB could destroy the Multiverse. Also laughable.
The moon cell only observe the Multiverse and record data from it in order to create virtual simulations. MoonCell reality manipulation outside of itself is quite limited.
We can also use dimension scaling for Xenoverse. Like Demigra sees the multiverse as fiction and base Goku>Chamel>>>Third form Demigra
If Demigra sees the Multiverse in fiction, then everyone in DB is bound by the concept of Destiny, that Multiverse too is bound by the Concept of Destiny as Time is fixed and all characters have no freedom as the future is already pre-existing and predetermined.
The DB Xeno Multiverse is an Eternalist Multiverse, the weakest kind of Multiverse any decent Multiversal with good Time powers can destroy. Even Post-Retcon Beyonder can destroy that and he is kind of a baseline Multiversal being lmao.
So how is that supposed to be impressive? At least Gilgamesh, when he's Multiversal, the Multiverse has unbounded possibilities, in fact, Gilgamesh isn't bound by the Concept of Destiny, so seeing something as fiction is meaningless since Gilgamesh isn't bound by an R>F layer, no one is writing his destiny, as he has freedom and he can excercise over possibilities that are not set in stone and has freedom.
It's like trying to bring up matter manipulation in a versus debate between two ghosts, R>F layer transcendences are meaningless here between two beings that are not bound by Eternalist Time.
Gilgamesh never destroyed a Multiverse. BB has never destroy a Multiverse either
MoonCell is not a Multiverse. At no point has ever been called one.
MoonCell is not a Multiverse. At no point has ever been called one.
The Moon Cell having infinire parallel universes:
Moon Cell having infinite distance:
This is the borderline that lies between the seventh layer and Moon Cell‘s core. Pseudo-Spiritrons are made of light, and it’s warned that at the speed of light it would take 404 years to get past this border and to the computer addresses which lie beyond. This essentially communicates “that address doesn’t exist” to anyone/anything attempting to pass.
It’s actually an infinite distance that cannot be covered even if you try for centuries.
The only thing that can serve as a bridge across the borderline to connect Moon Cell‘s core to the normal address space is the arena that Moon Cell made to summon the victor of the Holy Grail War.
…Is how it’s supposed to be, but BB used an imaginary number space to force herself to become an infinite concept,
and by using a fake arena she managed to break past the borderline.-Fate/Extra Material.
So the Moon Cell has infinite universes inside of it and has another infinite sized space.
Mooncel being called a multiverse yet planet level characters threaten/destroy jt?
Yes or no?
Gilgamesh has ten crowns?
NO OR NO?
If something stores infinite data and such and is then viewed to be FINITE (literally moon sized?) it’s debunked, and if something is bigger than that “infinite” (the universe and the root) then it’s already disproving the existence of it being infinite.
Higher dimensional from destroying (more like using a multi staged plan so the barrier wouldn’t effect) a barrier that the mooncel used? It’s confirmed saber Venus is 8d then even after being fodder.
That shadow border shit still stands as well, (we literally see Anti planet Nps overpowering dimensional barriers)
With such misinformation about CCC still going on from gameplay mechanics, I can easily say that xeno Goku has omni negation aswell (even though he’s literally just all dakka)
Mooncel being called a multiverse yet planet level characters threaten/destroy jt?
Except it never happened?
Gilgamesh has ten crowns?
Yes he does. He needed it to mutually cancel the one used by BB.
If something stores infinite data and such and is then viewed to be FINITE (literally moon sized?) it’s debunked,
No it's not. There are stars in the background when you meet Gilgamesh. An universe was considered a mere sector of the Moon Cell. There are several statements of it having infinite possibilities. The distance to the core is officially stated to be infinite. The Moon Cell is not moon sized lmfao.
and if something is bigger than that “infinite” (the universe and the root) then it’s already disproving the existence of it being infinite.
? Akasha is truly boundless without any limits. It's even stated in KnK that infinity is not " ".
"If there is no limit, then it is not infinity, but “ ”. If limits exist, then Ryougi would find it and cut away everything."
Higher dimensional from destroying (more like using a multi staged plan so the barrier wouldn’t effect) a barrier that the mooncel used? It’s confirmed saber Venus is 8d then even after being fodder.
Rin already explained in details how higher dimensions works. Don't know what you are on about.
@crimsonslayer85: do yourself a favor and read your scans before you post them.
Your first scan you post says it only observed the Multiverse and make simulations of potential future Earth's which isn't multiversal at all nor does it make the contents a Multiverse.
The second and 4th scan once again doesn't mention infinite timelines in MoonCell rather infinite possibilities. and the 3rd simply mentions how the mooncell can observe everything in existence.
The funny thing is even if you want to argue that's some of the dimensions inside Moon cell is infinite which is fair CCC Gilgamesh never destroyed any of them either
“No it's not. There are stars in the background when you meet Gilgamesh. An universe was considered a mere sector of the Moon Cell. There are several statements of it having infinite possibilities. The distance to the core is officially stated to be infinite. The Moon Cell is not moon sized lmfao.”
Your Mooncell is Moon sized yes or no? How do we not know it’s not a mirror or a projection of the outside world? You tried to pull the same shit with the reverse side of the world too.
Tf u talking bout?
? Akasha is truly boundless without any limits. It's even stated in KnK that infinity is not " "
Thanks for telling me you also don’t believe this nonsense
“Except it never happened?”
Tanamo kicks the shit out of the Mooncell (destroying it) instead of running from it like Gil did.
Also dimensions are explained as such, but applying it to characters who literally have no feats of such or a are blatantly weaker is so funny.
This almost makes Zeus anti dimension anti concept shit look legit and the shadow border being above 5d
Your first scan you post says it only observed the Multiverse and make simulations of potential future Earth's which isn't multiversal at all nor does it make the contents a Multiverse.
It stores INFINITE futures. Infinite is infinite in size.
The second and 4th scan once again doesn't mention infinite timelines in MoonCell rather infinite possibilities.
Which are universes:
The funny thing is even if you want to argue that's some of the dimensions inside Moon cell is infinite which is fair CCC Gilgamesh never destroyed any of them either
Eh? BB got past a barrier that cut through 8 dimensions, then fused with the device that made said 8 dimensional barrier.
BB bypassing a barrier also has no indication it’s actually dimensional, same logic like that makes the shadow border 5-6d that got destroyed by anti planet attacks
Your Mooncell is Moon sized yes or no? How do we not know it’s not a mirror or a projection of the outside world? You tried to pull the same shit with the reverse side of the world too.
What?
Thanks for telling me you also don’t believe this nonsense
Quit the deflection, you brought it up to deny that the Moon Cell is infinite, i simply proved otherwise.
Tanamo kicks the shit out of the Mooncell (destroying it) instead of running from it like Gil did.
Since when is Tamamo planet level? She had her Mystic Code at the time, which allowed her to compete with BB.
Also dimensions are explained as such, but applying it to characters who literally have no feats of such or a are blatantly weaker is so funny.
@the_metabee: No i'm not doing it. If you have anything to say debate it by yourself here. That's the same guy who cites wikias in his arguments. His credibility is non-existent in my eyes.
BB bypassing a barrier also has no indication it’s actually dimensional, same logic like that makes the shadow border 5-6d that got destroyed by anti planet attacks
Eh? Higher dimensions sucks in GO. In CCC they are legit, as explained by Rin.
@the_metabee: No i'm not doing it. If you have anything to say debate it by yourself here. That's the same guy who cites wikias in his arguments. His credibility is non-existent in my eyes.
BB bypassing a barrier also has no indication it’s actually dimensional, same logic like that makes the shadow border 5-6d that got destroyed by anti planet attacks
Eh? Higher dimensions sucks in GO. In CCC they are legit, as explained by Rin.
Same imaginary number space that the moon cell exists in?
Go to thopples and he’ll tel you infinites don’t work like that, if something is a bigger or true infinite it makes the lower one finite.
Eh? The Root is without boundaries. It's even higher then infinity. It's the boundless source of all creation.
So basically its the real infinite thing in the nasuverse?
For tanamo, my bad, she’s below planet level.
Reason?
Her big fox mommy form is stronger than her and canon wise lost to below planet level characters
Eh? When that happened? Even in GO she was star level.
Some lower gods were apparently better foes to sefar, and the star level part is pro-no most likely to duruability (or lore wise, shes an actual star).
That lower god is mars, who has his shit stolen on a daily basis, and his so-called weak bellow planetary stuff can now destroy the moon cells barrier (saber venus i believe)
@the_metabee: What? higher dimensions are shown to be fodder in GO. They aren't in CCC.
imaginary number space and a place outside the confines on the 4 dimensions (and presumably the others) alien god being above Human understanding (and this gives her some sort of power boost since black barrel cant even one shot her, let alone hurt her yet it could destroy a black hole if things got pushed apparently)
Nothing says the God of Mars is planet level to my knowledge.
The moon cell specifically buffs diety's (or gods) when there in there (and also nerfs TA's and shit for being true stuff), so something like her being compared to the sun makes her above the mooncell and space time (4d) when you take her out, sefar and her are doing less damage to the planet than something like EA would do in strange fake.
Edit: but now? the god stuff getting buffed is probably from human worship birthing instead of buffing them, so someone like zeus would be the same zeus but someone like shiva is now rivaling or above buddha.
@the_metabee: What? higher dimensions are shown to be fodder in GO. They aren't in CCC.
imaginary number space and a place outside the confines on the 4 dimensions (and presumably the others) alien god being above Human understanding (and this gives her some sort of power boost since black barrel cant even one shot her, let alone hurt her yet it could destroy a black hole if things got pushed apparently)
Nothing says the God of Mars is planet level to my knowledge.
The moon cell specifically buffs diety's (or gods) when there in there (and also nerfs TA's and shit for being true stuff), so something like her being compared to the sun makes her above the mooncell and space time (4d) when you take her out, sefar and her are doing less damage to the planet than something like EA would do in strange fake.
Edit: but now? the god stuff getting buffed is probably from human worship birthing instead of buffing them, so someone like zeus would be the same zeus but someone like shiva is now rivaling or above buddha.
Nothing says the God of Mars is planet level to my knowledge.
The moon cell specifically buffs diety's (or gods) when there in there (and also nerfs TA's and shit for being true stuff), so something like her being compared to the sun makes her above the mooncell and space time (4d) when you take her out, sefar and her are doing less damage to the planet than something like EA would do in strange fake.
Edit: but now? the god stuff getting buffed is probably from human worship birthing instead of buffing them, so someone like zeus would be the same zeus but someone like shiva is now rivaling or above buddha.
So? In CCC she is far beyond planet level.
if you believe she was getting buffed from the mooncell instead of casually being above it and passively threatening it, then sure.
all this nerf stuff is from Excalibur killing sefar, which unless you think Excalibur is star level + there severely lacking (and by virtue of scaling, the mooncell would be weaker, since the two have been portrayed as stronger than the mooncell, for sefar? heard some stuff shes stronger in the mooncell with no gravity or that she can eat concepts)
Your first scan you post says it only observed the Multiverse and make simulations of potential future Earth's which isn't multiversal at all nor does it make the contents a Multiverse.
It stores INFINITE futures. Infinite is infinite in size.
It records these futures in the form of data.
The second and 4th scan once again doesn't mention infinite timelines in MoonCell rather infinite possibilities.
Which are universes:
Why do you take statements about Chakravartin highjacking the MoonCell from fate extra last encore? And acting like it applies to the MoonCell in fate extra CCC? Because even in that context MoonCell still doesn't contain Infinite timeline it's just destroying them via chain reaction via the pruning system.
Eh? BB got past a barrier that cut through 8 dimensions, then fused with the device that made said 8 dimensional barrier.
This is why Dimensional tiering is a joke. It's 8 dimensional in what way?
In the form of light actually. But even then, why does it matter? Those simulations could be made out of paper and it wouldn't matter. Infinity is infinity.
Why do take statements about Chakravartin highjacking the MoonCell from fate extra last encore? And acting like it applies to the MoonCell in fate extra CCC?
Because it's a direct sequel of a bad end of Fate/Extra.
Because even in that context MoonCell still doesn't contain Infinite timeline it's just destroying them via chain reaction via the pruning system.
We know they are infinite due to Fate/Extra statements.
This is why Dimensional tiering is a joke. It's 8 dimensional in what way?
I already posted scans where Rin explains it in details...
@berberiot: @the_metabee: @crimsonslayer85: Gilgamesh was fighting against BB and BB is 8D lol.is this also a game mechanic?. Goku With wank Is 5D.then xeno Goku hasn't transcended demigra lol and still 4D. however crimson nice debunk
@crimsonslayer85: "In the form of light actually. But even then, why does it matter? Those simulations could be made out of paper and it wouldn't matter. Infinity is infinity."
Because these Things aren't made of any kind of physical matter.
"Because it's a direct sequel of a bad end of Fate/Extra."
So once again this statement and feat doesn't come from Fate extra CCC PSP game but rather the Fate Extra extra last encore anime that aired 5 year after the game.
But even in the context of that anime Mooncell doesn't contain infinite timeline.
The context of that scan was that Chakravartin was using Moon cell's Pruning system to basically castrate the Multiverse. It got nothing to do with the content inside MoonCell.
Again explain how is it 8 dimensional?
Because frankly being X dimensional requires more than someone calling X dimensional.
Because these Things aren't made of any kind of physical matter.
Creating accurate simulations that it STORES is multiversal.
They are infinite.
So they are multiversal.
So once again this statement and feat doesn't come from Fate extra CCC PSP game but rather the Fate Extra extra last encore anime that aired 5 year after the game.
Which does not make it any less valid...
The context of that scan was that Chakravartin was using Moon cell's Pruning system to basically castrate the Multiverse. It got nothing to do with the content inside MoonCell.
Lol? He is hacking the Moon Cell's higher dimensional core and about to shut down all parallel universes inside of it.
Again explain how is it 8 dimensional?
Because the Moon Cell legit created a barrier that cut through 8 dimensions.
Because frankly being X dimensional requires more than someone calling X dimensional.
Said no one ever. We have a detailed explanation about how higher dimensions works.
In Last Encore Chakravartin takes control of the Moon Cell and begins to mess with the Pruning System, which is what allows the World to save energy by preventing the creation of parallel timelines that will be either too successful or too unsuccessful, effectively keeping only those that are "balanced", like most Fate and Tsukihime universes.
These timelines however are not being contained within the Moon Cell itself nothing suggest this.
@thopples: it takes screams from planet level and below to threaten that infinite space, no infinite power there, the light the Mooncell has? Compared to the sun which is also finite.
Don’t validate the idea when it invalidates itself.
Go to thopples and he’ll tel you infinites don’t work like that, if something is a bigger or true infinite it makes the lower one finite.
I said that it is literally, logically and mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to prove one Infinite Cosmology is bigger than the Infinite Cosmology in another setting. Because Infinities of Set Theory cannot extend the Limit-Value of Volume ∞, all Infinities are physically the same size from Aleph-Null to Absolute Infinity/Ord as Uncountably many elements have no definable meaning in physics and volume.
So the Cosmology of DC, is literally no bigger or smaller than Umineko, no bigger or smaller than SCP, no bigger or smaller than Marvel or Cthulhu Mythos or any verse, and is no bigger or smaller than Nasuverse.
For pragmatic, simple, logical, mathematical and practical reasons, it is better to just equate Infinite volume size across all Infinite settings and focus on the technical superiority of metaphysics, causality, state of space and state of time, hax, concept-mechanics between different Infinite settings.
Now, there's this Axiom that is as old as Multiverse debating but maybe as old as the first Multiverse setting in modern times, I did not invent it, I just gave it a name, it's called the "AXIOM OF THE INFINITE-FINITE" or the "Internal Infinity" and this axiom says that it is consistent to consider a physical object that is bounded and finite form the outside is "magically" is infinitely larger on the inside. Look at Umineko Kakeras, they can fit in the palm of your hand yet it contains "magically" and "metaphysically" counterintuitively, Infinite Space internally.
I'm betting the Moon Cell functions the same, is that not right? @crimsonslayer85
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