CCC Gilgamesh vs Goetia

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CryoLancer47

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Is this regular Gil, or GodGate Gil?

Cause the first one wins and the latter jumps out of the Pic and has a twerking contest again Comicvine-Force Cosmic Armor Superman & Nohate Naruto, in the real world.

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deactivated-640627d829959

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Goetia stomps.

CCC Gilgamesh is not even in the top 4 strongest characters in Fate/Extra CCC.

He's explicitly confirmed to be weaker than BB and stated to have only a 0.9999% chance at beating her. The only way he could win was by severing BB's connection to the Moon Cell and using his Noble Phantasm first. In fact, in the bad end where he doesn't use it fast enough BB one shots him.

BB herself is weaker than Kiara who absorbed BB and her Alter Egos as well as the Moon Cell core. The only reason Gilgamesh could beat her was because BB and the Alter Egos sabotaged Kiara. It's stated that if Kiara knew this would happen, she would have simply teleported Hakuno and Gilgamesh to another dimension and destroyed it.

Two other characters in Fate/Extra CCC who far surpass Gilgamesh with the Mythological Mystic Code are Buddha and Amaterasu. These characters are key when it comes to scaling CCC Gilgamesh and Goetia.

Buddha is stated to be on the same level as Kiara, making him stronger than Gilgamesh. Meanwhile Amaterasu is the strongest character in the entire game as it is confirmed in an official material that Berserker Arcueid is the only one who stands a chance against Amaterasu.

Fate/EXTRA material- Encyclopedia: Berserker (White) [Servant?], p.202

Berserker (White) [Servant?]

Berserker is the second Servant you end up fighting during the fourth round.

Her master is Monji Gatou.

She is a Funny Vamp [localized as Temptress] with tousled blond hair and crimson eyes.

She is a fan service character.

Technically not a wizard, she is just some strange creature that Gatou brought along from Earth. Sometimes a cat, sometimes Yuzu-nee, sometimes a silicon creature, Berserker is a princess that doesn’t seem to have a proper place in the game. She desperately awaits a redesign.

Incidentally, in the world of EXTRA where the information world (digital) takes precedence over the physical world, she is no longer the strongest.

This is because in the information world legend becomes reality, and natural phenomena that have been incarnated as “Gods” can often hold more power than their original natural existence does.

Well even with that being said, if Berserker regained her sanity she would easily be considered a cheat-tier Servant. Her power, “The stage is the Moon, so all targets have their power reduced to a sixth of their usual.” would be extremely useful against other similar cheat-tier Servants.

It’s a conceptual numerical alteration, so it is unavoidable when on the Moon. Even the Moon Cell transformed version of BB would be limited by it.

In EXTRA and CCC, she is about the only one who is “Capable of defeating Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face), no matter how small the chance might be.”

This means that Gilgamesh who had a 0.9999% chance to defeat BB stands a 0% chance to defeat Amaterasu.

Now what does all of that have to do with Goetia? It's simple - Goetia scales to Amaterasu and above Buddha, two characters who are confirmed to be far above CCC Gilgamesh.

Firstly, it's blatantly stated by Tamamo that Goetia is comparable to Amaterasu.

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We get an additional statement in Part 2 of FGO which scales Zeus in his 10% form to the Buddha Vairocana, a different Buddha than the one in Extra.

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As a Buddha he is on the same level as the Buddha in Extra who is far above CCC Gilgamesh.

And Zeus can become orders of magnitude stronger than that form when he activates his 35% form.

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Goetia scales above Zeus as it's confirmed in Lostbelt 5.5 that the Alien God and Goetia are the two strongest enemies Chaldea had faced up to that point.

Da Vinci: Well, I do have to talk about attacking South America, where the “Alien God” currently resides. As the technical advisor, I have to firmly disagree with the idea of going there now. Even if we assume that it’s been injured, we have no way of fighting the “Alien God” at this time. The existential scale of the “Alien God” observed in Olympus was a Spirit Origin Output on the order of a third-class planetary grade—— in terms of magical energy output, it ranks only after Beast I, Goetia’s second-class planetary grade. Even if the Storm Border was finished and perfect, Chaldea simply doesn’t have the strength to fight it. If we went to South America now, we would be driven away at best. Rather, we should be thankful for this stalemate.

So overall it goes like this:

Goetia = Amaterasu > Alien God > Zeus > Vairocana = Buddha in Extra = Kiara > BB > CCC Gilgamesh

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SainguineXshadow

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Goetia dirt naps Gilgamesh.

You could give Gil his origin code and it still wouldn't do anything for him; No noble phantasm save for Ars Nova works on Goetia because of Nega summon.

This is basic cosmology knowledge in Nasu. Nasu doesn't care about scaling like battle boarders, he cares about compatibility.

And Gilgamesh's compatibility gets shut down instantly by Goetia.

Goetia deletes Uruk from his time temple and then remakes earth and then Retcons Gilgamesh out of existence.

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ChainChan

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#6  Edited By ChainChan

Crimson slayer and lordballer are gone--outside a few rare CCC wankers from vsbattles who happen to stumble on threads with there god on them...no one in 2022 thinks Gil can beat goetia.

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SainguineXshadow

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@tsotso: Amaterasu lost to Sefar, big no to that one Chief.

Zeus scales above Amaterasu, according to Nasu in an interview about Lostbelt Olympus they were the last Gods that Sefar engaged and Zeus crushed her thoroughly killing her for good after absorbing all authorities of his Pantheon and forcing a fusion.

Later he attacked flag ship Kronos and took the crown to regain all that composite authority and effortlessly annihilated the remains of Sefar in the next Machia.

Nemo also said Zeus was the strongest god present on Earth, Amaterasu is decided weaker than Zeus based on statements and feats.

Amaterasu according to Nasu has the attack output of a star.

Zeus has Anti-Star system, Anti space-time, Anti dimension, Anti-World and Anti Planet functionality when he unlocks his composite authority.

And the way Nasu worded it, was that Super Zeus was forced to get into a slugging match with Sefar.

Which is the main reason it was nearly a draw. Zeus can't pull out his strongest attack unless he destroys the planet and star system which ultimately hurts what he wanted to do.

He was trying to defend his new planet that he grew to love so he was effectively nerfing himself.

As for the Alien God being Stronger than Zeus?

No, that's never said. Infact Chaldea was never able to measure Zeus's true power because he only powered up at the end and Quin was able to nerf him and super buff Chaldea.

That and Zeus's power was being diverted to powering Olympus.

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The_MetaBee

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SainguineXshadow

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@the_metabee: I appeared briefly in a BB thread not too long ago to shut down BB wank in BB vs Ultra instinct Goku thread.

Where people were trying to wank her Potnia Theron authority.

So, funny thing about that, that people don't seem to realize?

Is that it explicitly doesn't work on Aliens or humans that have left the planet and conquered the stars I.E. colonized other planets or in general just been to other planets.

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The_MetaBee

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#10  Edited By The_MetaBee
@sainguinexshadow said:

@the_metabee: I appeared briefly in a BB thread not too long ago to shut down BB wank in BB vs Ultra instinct Goku thread.

Where people were trying to wank her Potnia Theron authority.

So, funny thing about that, that people don't seem to realize?

Is that it explicitly doesn't work on Aliens or humans that have left the planet and conquered the stars I.E. colonized other planets or in general just been to other planets.

Ten Crowns? I've completely given up on making sense of that.

though I believe @nurseryrhyme has some scans relating to BB though.

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SainguineXshadow

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@the_metabee: Yes, BB's Potnia Theron Domina Coronam.

Potnia Theron (Conception of All Animals) is a Skill that gives the user the Authority of the Earth Mother Goddess, a "Great Authority on the level of nation building". It is also known as Domina Coronam.

BB compiled and absorbed this Authority of the goddesses from the abyss of the Moon Cell. None born of the Earth can defy BB's Authority of the Earth Mother as that would mean rebelling against the system of life itself. This Skill makes BB invincible against any attack, making the attacks themselves have "not occurred." However, when they leave this earth, head to space, and end the childhoood as intelligent lifeforms, they will have broken this authority. The wish of Çatalhöyük is the coming of that day. Cursed Cutting Crater is the maximum usage of this Skill

So people that even try to wank this authority as making BB untouchable to anything clearly haven't read this.

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deactivated-640627d829959

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@sainguinexshadow: The Zeus I used in my scaling was the one Chaldea fought, not the one fused with the Olympians. I also only counted the level of power he displayed and which was measured by Chaldea, not his full power that we never saw.

There's no reason for us to debate about anything as this thread is about CCC Gilgamesh vs Goetia and we both agree Goetia stomps.

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SainguineXshadow

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@tsotso: Yes we do.

Also people should really just name it Original mythical code Gilgamesh instead of CCC since 'That' Is the version of Gilgamesh that everyone loves to try to wank.

Default CCC Gilgamesh is literally same stats as his other counterparts.

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nurseryrhyme

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@sainguinexshadow said:

@the_metabee: I appeared briefly in a BB thread not too long ago to shut down BB wank in BB vs Ultra instinct Goku thread.

Where people were trying to wank her Potnia Theron authority.

So, funny thing about that, that people don't seem to realize?

Is that it explicitly doesn't work on Aliens or humans that have left the planet and conquered the stars I.E. colonized other planets or in general just been to other planets.

Ten Crowns? I've completely given up on making sense of that.

though I believe @nurseryrhyme has some scans relating to BB though.

Ten Crowns and Potnia Theron are not the same thing. Ten Crowns/Domin Cornam is BB's cheat skill that makes her cancel attacks, events but also heal, revive, make Hakuno negate attacks etc. Julius and Kazuradrop have a replica of Ten Crowns in Fate Fox Tail. The description of this skill is completely different from Potnia Theron.

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03 - Khakkhara of Domination

The teacher's pointer that BB carries.

A device that lets her make full use of her authority as an advanced level AI. Although limited to the Far Side of the Moon, this allows BB to modify thespiritron lawsgame ruleswithin the SE.RA.PH.

"Ten Crowns of Domination" worn by the Beast of Babylon converted into a teacher's pointer.

This is the male principle corresponding to the female principle of the seven-headed beast, and its true nature is a phallus (erect rod).

The symbol of the king of the world who was granted throne and authority by a great dragon and received the right to, for 42 months, spit out as many insolent words as desired and desecrate all things.

The beast's heads were the seven hills of the Roman Empire... Capitolium, Palatium, Aventinus, Esquilinus, Caelius, Quirinalis, Viminalis. In other words, they meant the Roman Empire itself, and the ten horns symbolized the emperors... Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Vespasianus, Titus, Galba, Otho, Vitellius.

There is nothing about Mother Goddesses but the Beast of Babylon and evil kings, Julius and Kazuradrop aren't Mother Goddess but can partially use this skill.

Potnia Theron is the authority of Mother Goddesses, it doesn't cancel attacks, events, it immunizes against life forms born on Earth.

03 - Potnia Theron [EX]

Conception of All AnimalsPotnia Theron.

The authority of the goddesses that BB compiled and absorbed from the abyss of the mooncell.

It embodies the power of all creation possessed by the mother goddesses—originating from a forgotten goddess approximately 8000 years ago (the goddess of Çatalhöyük) and branching to Tiamat and Cybele, Ishtar, Inanna, Anat, Astarte, Gaia, Hera, Artemis, Aphrodite, Demeter, Athena, etc.

Many are depicted with mural crowns. This is because many of these goddesses were also guardian deities of cities.

The symbols of this authority include holes opening the earth and the sky (caves and the moon), whirling tides and waterspouts of the sea, calderas of the volcanoes, etc., and from these, evils that bring all manners of death are birthed. However, after these evils have spread death, they promise certain good harvest and fertility. This authority is none other than the power of bringing death as well as giving life.

The earth mother is worshipped by the people and protects them as a guardian deity, but at the same time, she is the very sacrifice that nurtures them with crops born from her body and beasts of the fields and the forests.

The earth mother nurtures men with her flesh and blood, kills men as time passes to restores herself with her own nourishment, and once again nurtures men with her restored flesh and blood.

This process is the cycle of the food chain, and this cycle of life and death can be said to be the true nature of the earth mother. With this authority, most of the goddesses gave birth to countless monsters and giants, posing threats to gods and men, or they gave birth to heroes, thus protecting people.

As representative examples, Tiamat and Gaia became threats, while Hera is a mother of heroes.

Those born on this earth cannot defy the authority of the mother goddess, as that would mean rebelling against the very system of life. However, when they leave this earth, head to space, and end the childhoood as intelligent lifeforms, they will have broken this authority.

The wish of Çatalhöyük is the coming of that day.

Mother Goddesses like Tiamat or Ashtart have Potnia Theron but they don't have attack negation. Gorgon also has it due to her connection to Beast II in Babylonia.

Dr. Roman: The body of the Earth Mother is used as soil to create the world. It is a theme seen in other mythologies too. A goddess creates life. But when she turns to chaos, she becomes the enemy of humanity, the mother of Demonic Beasts. It's an Authority called Potnia Theron, the “Womb of a Hundred Beasts.” Anyone with this Authority possesses the seed of life... They can make an infinite amount of monsters, provided they have the resources. Based on the number of Demonic Beasts, the goddess to the north likely has this Authority.

Merlin: Gorgon, the monster known for killing heroes in Greek mythology. She's here either because of the King of Mages' Holy Grail or due to some twist of fate. Whichever it is, the Grail has restored her former appearance and power. While many legends tell of the monstrous Gorgon Sisters' murderous exploits, none depict any of them giving birth to other monsters. Therefore, the Authority to give birth to Demonic Beasts, Potnia Theron, must have come from the Holy Grail.

Gorgon: You dare call me a fake Tiamat...? You, a girl who can't even materialize without a human vessel?

Ishtar: I've got every right. Even with Potnia Theron, you're no match to Tiamat. First of all, Mother didn't need other creatures to create Demonic Beasts, anyway. She could make a world on her own.

Merlin: Gorgon didn't have Tiamat's Authority because she was a copy. She was synchronized... She shared her senses with the real Tiamat to gain Potnia Theron...!

Potnia Theron is not Ten Crowns.

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chasekilleen

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@tsotso: Yes we do.

Also people should really just name it Original mythical code Gilgamesh instead of CCC since 'That' Is the version of Gilgamesh that everyone loves to try to wank.

Default CCC Gilgamesh is literally same stats as his other counterparts.

ZGT's wank has long been debunked. Just let it die lmao.

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SainguineXshadow

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@chasekilleen: I would, if there wasn't people still out there that seem to think Multiversal Nasuverse is a thing-

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chasekilleen

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@sainguinexshadow: Yeah, I know whom you are referring to. It is just a single person relaying what ZGTfreak is saying from a private discord server they are in. They are just trolls. They don't add any substance whatsoever. Just ignore them.

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ChainChan

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#18  Edited By ChainChan
@sainguinexshadow said:

@chasekilleen: I would, if there wasn't people still out there that seem to think Multiversal Nasuverse is a thing-

if it's comp Nasuverse then yes (All of the characters bundled into one), and there's evidence in GO Skill Definitions that would put it there--and even higher if we use vsbattle wiki terms (since there character scaling is trash, ill be using space battles logic today).

spoiler for my reasoning.

to start off--comp nasu would include bunyan (with her axe) who can destroy her inner world and extend it to the real one with seemingly just pure information.

Goddess ColumbiaBunyan possesses an infinite potential for destruction and creation. It's potential the United States as a nation has in itself.
Goddess ColumbiaThus, Bunyan will continue to shape and develop this world... And once it reaches its limit, all will be destroyed.
MashIs that why that Master took away her axe?
Goddess ColumbiaCorrect. Though it was a futile effort.
This loop is already at its 12,520th cycle.
Goddess ColumbiaAnd now that you have given Bunyan an axe, the cycle of creation and destruction has resumed.
Goddess ColumbiaAnd Bunyan has seen outside this world. She has seen your Chaldea through that Spirit World Communicator.
Choices
  • No... That can't be...
Goddess ColumbiaYes. At this rate, Bunyan's world will begin to encroach upon your world as well.
Goddess ColumbiaThe humanity that you all worked hard to restore will tolerate even a fabricated Heroic Spirit like Bunyan

This information should be easy to get for comp nasu considering they have 3 forms of clairvoyance from 3 different servants--but the one I want to focus on is Solomon who has clairvoyance on par with omniscience.

hell, even goetias demon gods can even view other worlds (like goetias lackeys).

this can also be extended to spatial dimensions with the outer god connected to Abigail.

Abigail The gates reach across all of time and space. Oh, I'm sorry... I'm still not accustomed to using them... Ahh, this Bounded Field...keeps obstructing me... I can't focus my aim... I can't inflict enough pain... I see... So I can't reach outside. Even though all I'm trying to do is find the most sinful people alive... Then...if I just reach through the Bounded Field itself to send pain directly into the mages' hearts... Lavinia...The Outer God is...the god of the great gate...and the key. The six doors...up, down, left, right, front, and back...represent all possible...dimensions. And...this Outer God... ...is enshrined beyond the ultimate gate... The outside of our universe...where light can never reach. But despite that...he also borders all possible dimensions...and is tied to all possible things.

so in conclusion, with just 3-5 skills/NPs alone, comp nasu is already infecting everything in the world and turning it into whatever space they want (conceptual or even recorded space might be possible), via bunyans reality marble + Yog Soth range.

and not only that--but they can destroy it (eventually, but it would probably be easy to do when the whole universe is filled with varying versions of you) with bunyans inner world destroyer axe.

but I do agree--that no one in CCC is multiversal.

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Kh0rn3

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Goetia could just stomp this fight easily through Nega-Summon, it's not worth debating

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Goetia stomps.

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hugejonumber

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Goetia stomps without needing nega-summon