CCC Gilgamesh vs Arjuna alter

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Lilgodperv

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I want see who is stronger

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deactivated-5ea57ce883196

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Gilgamesh CCC as he was able to one shot an 8 dimensional being easily and Kiara which is predicted to be 9 dimensional, as they stated that Kiara is beyond the Mooncell and also BB herself.

Arjuna Alter has no counter to Gilgamesh's EX ranked stats and also his speed, which is stated to be faster than the concept of time itself.

Gilgamesh's Ea, Enuma Elish at small output was able to destroy an infinite sized Reality Marble created by the Mooncell and also was able to obliterate both BB and Kiara in one shot and both of them are stated to be multiversal when going up against Gilgamesh.

Gilgamesh can destroy the entire Mooncell and also a higher dimension if he really wanted as BB was threatening to destroy the infinite universe and higher dimension, he was still confident that he was able to defeat her. He was able to resist and counter anything BB threw at him. So Gilgamesh CCC easily.

I think he can or cannot resist BB's C.C.C

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deactivated-5ea57ce883196

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Probably @ecoblitz@zgtfreak@swagpack@devoidruby Can answer this thread far better than me as I am still reading the dialogues at the moment 😂

And probably correct any mistakes that I put in my answer.

To my knowledge Arjuna Alter is only a planet buster, as Gilgamesh CCC is far beyond that. Even in Strange Fake, summoned as a Fake Archer, Gilgamesh was stated to be able to destroy the Earth 7 times, while Enkidu was able to mend Earth 7 times, as Enkidu's Age of Babylon literally summons an infinite number of Noble Phantasms Holy Weapons from Earth itself and Enkidu is able to control Earth to its liking.

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zgtfreak

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Is this a joke thread?

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SwagPack

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@chasekilleen:

From what I know Arjuna Alter's best feat is resetting his universe and the fact that he has Indian pantheon absorbed, but that's it. Not really on a level of Extra CCC.

Some of those gods might scale to someone like Saver though, but still not enough.

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deactivated-5ea57ce883196

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@swagpack: is Gilgamesh CCC stronger than Saver?

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SwagPack

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@chasekilleen:

Don't know. The scaling chain isn't properly presented in Nasuverse. You could bring arguments for both sides.

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Sy8000

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How is repeatedly destroying and re-creating the universe not better than anything Moon Cell related..ugh I really just need to go through CCC.

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MrBallins

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@swagpack: Kamijuna reset the Indian Lostbelt, which was just the Indian texture

Absolutely nothing in the Nasuverse so far can affect the universe on a large scale, maybe with the exception of Buddhas who have it as a right just because they are Buddhas. I have no idea why that is so, but it seems that the physical universe itself cannot exactly be harmed, even if characters can oneshot an infinite multiverse

At best, Arjuna would be able to destroy recreate the Universe of Man

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SwagPack

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@sy8000:

There are several reasons.

1. Moon Cell creates, stores and sustains infinite amount of universes in its Core through its power alone.

2. Moon Cell is capable of creating higher dimensional constructs (Far Side and 8-dimensional barrier around its Core). Higher dimensional things in Fate are treated as infinitely superior to lower dimensional ones. Universe is a 4-dimensional constructs and is really an insignificant feat for something like the Moon Cell.

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SwagPack

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@mrballins:

I don't know where you got that idea though.

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Lilgodperv

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@swagpack: everything in the moon cells are basically simulation and doesn't effect the real world what-so-ever.

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Lilgodperv

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@mrballins: godjuna should be above the likes of saver cause Arjuna absorbed all the gods of Hindu pantheon who are basically equal or stronger than saver.

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Lilgodperv

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#14  Edited By Lilgodperv

@swagpack: some gods are equal to saver but the Trinity and some other gods are absolutely above the likes of saver in every possible way.

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MrBallins

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@lilgodperv: Source for that? It hasn't been stated anywhere that the Hindus are stronger than Saver so that is just an assumption on your part

Kama also lacks Anti-Saver, so you cannot even make the argument about her having advantage against him

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MrBallins

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#16  Edited By MrBallins

@swagpack: You are assuming that the regular Nasu universe is just 4D when we know nothing about it for the most part, since when Universe is mentioned it is nearly always in relation to the Universe of Man

Hell, Astarte is a higher dimensional entity and she is just a galaxy enshrined as a goddess

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Lilgodperv

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#17  Edited By Lilgodperv

@mrballins: don't have And have no reason to start any religious wars so I will refrain from answering. kama is a psyudo-servant and a beast class servant. And isn't saver class supposed to be above and stronger than beast class.

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Lilgodperv

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MrBallins

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@lilgodperv: >don't have And have no reason to start any religious wars so I will refrain from answering

Is it the whole "Gautama is an avatar of Vishnu" thing?

Because I am pretty sure that this is not the case in the Nasuverse

> And isn't saver class supposed to be above and stronger than beast class.

Not exactly, Beasts do not have a linear power level

For example, CCC Kiara will always lose to Saver because he not only counters her but is superior to her in power, Beast Kiara meanwhile will win because she has Anit-Saver as a skill

>who is astrate?

Not completely sure, but from what I know of Saber Wars she is a galaxy that got enshrined as a goddess and is also the primordial universe from which the Servant universe comes from or something along these lines

I am not too familiar with her bacstory, I just know about her powers

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SwagPack

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@lilgodperv:

The "simulation" argument is so bad, boring and nonsensical that it's tiresome. It was addressed countless time and nobody wants to deal with that again.

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SwagPack

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@mrballins:

Regular universe is 4D unless stated otherwise. It's like saying "you're assuming regular Fate humans have the same biology as real world humans". Of course they do, it's logical. You don't need the author to say "yes, humans are the same as real world humans".

When something isn't "normal", Nasu says so, as is the case with the Far Side, which you would assume is 4D, but is actually higher dimensional (so 5D or above).

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Lilgodperv

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#22  Edited By Lilgodperv

@swagpack: cause no one has any proof and likes to blabber nonsense. It is a simulation cause nothing from extra verse effects the real world directly.

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SwagPack

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MrBallins

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@lilgodperv:The Moon Cell is the planet's observer and can prune timelines

@swagpack:There are several things pointing out that the regular universe may not be fully normal, first of which is the fact that pretty much no one has had any massive effect on it even though there are multiple multiversal characters in Nasu

There is also the fact that even a galaxy like Astarte can be an infinite conceptual universe while Buddhas being capable of managing something as small as a Solar System is considered impressive even though Saver and Kiara are both multiversal

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zgtfreak

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@swagpack: everything in the moon cells are basically simulation and doesn't effect the real world what-so-ever.

You've been debunked on this several times. Get lost.

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Lilgodperv

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@zgtfreak: lol when? When I said that a object that can supposedly Create 8D space and can exist in a lower dimensional universe without changing it's laws or when you were saying why can't it exist. Man try something else cause you debunked nothing.

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zgtfreak

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#27  Edited By zgtfreak

@lilgodperv: You flat out conceded to me, then randomly went back to spouting the same nonsense a few weeks later. And I've sent you scans of the Moon Cell effecting reality. You just have selective memory because you're mad that the characters from your poorly written little phone game that is a stain on Type-Moon gets Ain Sophed out of existence by CCC Gilgamesh's mere presence. This thread is actually lock worthy.

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Lilgodperv

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@zgtfreak: oh you mean this;

"You debunked it yourself. Moon cells isn't any 7-8d space. Before you say something i would like to remind you that the moon cell which according to you is highly intelligent a.i and can create multiverse is watching the earth from nearby should possibly not have higher dimensions. It exists on the similar 3 dimensional plain as the earth in the universe.

So according to you the mooncells which can supposedly create 7 to 8 dimensional universes actually exists in a 3 dimensional universe. WTF logic is that. I have never seen an object that supposedly creates 7 to 8D universes exist in a 3 dimensional universe in any fiction. They mostly exists detached from the multiverse or on a higher plain of existence. So your theory is wrong."

"You assume that dimensions work the same in every fiction, but they don't. There is nothing wrong with higher-dimensional objects existing in lower-dimensional spaces. When They Cry and Marvel have done it many times. Nice try, buddy; but you need to learn what you're even talking about before you come challenging me. I can tell you are extremely inexperienced when it comes to multiverse level entities."

In this we can already see that how you react without giving any proper response other than your outbursts.

I asked you to prove an higher dimensional object present in a lower dimensional universe without breaking the universe and you give this;

"Voyagers going to the Golden land and the 3-D parts of the Human Domain, Beyonder going in the Marvel multiverse, ect. lol"

And I ask you what were the consequences of that? Yet you fail to prove that moon cells affecting anything outside it's own a.k.a the real world. I agree that it may be 7-8D inside the moon cells but compared to the outer world it is nothing.

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zgtfreak

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#29  Edited By zgtfreak

@lilgodperv: I've dealt with this on multiple threads. You have no idea how cosmologies work/can work. You are extremely small minded. You are a waste of time talking to further. And Gilgamesh is beyond infinite multiversal without factoring in dimensions. We've been over this.

And I ask you what were the consequences of that? Yet you fail to prove that moon cells affecting anything outside it's own a.k.a the real world.

It was in the very RT you argued in. You are a brick wall. Willfully ignorant. Blocking you now.

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Lilgodperv

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MrBallins

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@zgtfreak: >the characters from your poorly written little phone game

Hey, you can shit on the waifus but don't shit on my boy Kamijuna. He is actually a well written character with an interesting conflict, both in his Lostbelt and after we summon him

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MrBallins

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@lilgodperv: >So according to you the mooncells which can supposedly create 7 to 8 dimensional universes actually exists in a 3 dimensional universe. WTF logic is that. I have never seen an object that supposedly creates 7 to 8D universes exist in a 3 dimensional universe in any fiction. They mostly exists detached from the multiverse or on a higher plain of existence. So your theory is wrong."

Just to note, but that Nasu universe could easily be higher than 4D. Also, there is no thing such as a 3D universe

>Yet you fail to prove that moon cells affecting anything outside it's own a.k.a the real world

The Moon Cell is the Earth's observer, capable of choosing the future that the planet embarks on. Even if you discount that, the Moon Cell was still capable of jamming the entire Milky Way which is a feat of it affecting the real world

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Guzmania

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Gilgamesh should win mid-diff

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Lilgodperv

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@mrballins: man I wasn't telling you. I was calling out on that zgtfreak's bullshit.

I know the universe is 4D in nature if you factor time. I was calling him on his crap about moon cells being 8-9D.Nasuverse might have higher dimensions which aren't explored yet but they aren't involved in extraverse.

And I know what the moon cell is but do you have any posts or links which shows Moon Cell being capable of jamming the entire Milky Way which is a feat of it affecting the real world

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MrBallins

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@lilgodperv: >Nasuverse might have higher dimensions which aren't explored yet but they aren't involved in extraverse.

Except that the Moon Cell's core was stated to have an 8D barrier around it, this is in @zgtfreak's respect thread as well irrc

>And I know what the moon cell is but do you have any posts or links which shows Moon Cell being capable of jamming the entire Milky Way which is a feat of it affecting the real world

It was mentioned in Extella when it talked about the measures the Moon Cell took against Velber, I don't have any screencaps and I am not 100% where exactly it was said, but it was said. If you play the game you should stumble into it no problem

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syncroniam

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Gilgamesh would still win in the end but it would be a good battle between them.

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GaRbS

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Arjuna Alter recreates the world without Gilgamesh in it.

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Enkidus

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why does this exist? haxy character vs haxiest character.

tough choice

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GodGate

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Gilgamesh stomps. Ea GG. Enkidu GG.

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deactivated-5f585b4fd4f40

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Gilgamesh stomps 10/10 with his SNI + Enkidu + Gob + EA, plus he is 8-D to ???. What is the point of making this match? You are wasting the king of heros time.

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AzazelMP4

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havent't played fgo, but godjuna's best feat that i've seen is resetting the indian texture/lostbelt and if you wank it to highest amount, its around universal level feat. That is still an irrelevant feat that pales into comparison of Extra CCC characters who are casually above multiversal level. ccc gilgamesh stomps the living shit out of godjuna here 10/10.

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SemiramisAS

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In fact Gilgamesh FSF and CCC are the ones who have shown the best achievement in all of Nasuverse:

Gilgamesh Fate Stranger Fake is summoned without his true form which is Genesis code or his power during his lifetime. So he was really limited just like most of the Servants being a danger to the planet Earths (Gaia would try to fire him if he appeared in his original form like in CCC). Gilgamesh at SNI (all Gilgamesh "FSN / FGO ... have it) SNI is his omniscience, he only uses it very rarely because he is too arrogant except Gil CCC who is more serious, in FSF he decides to have fun went with his friend Enkidu and used EA and launched Enuma Elish at higher power than usual, the entire CREATION started compressing atop EA and went to be erased, but Enkidu was amplified by Gaia (the soul of the EARTH) to launch his own Enuma Elish which is a counter to Gilgamesh's.

To sum up, without the intervention of Enkidu and Gaia all creation will be erased by an attack from a Gilgamesh without its true form (genesis code) and reduced to the invocation by Gaia and the inability of the masters to maintain it with a higher power outside of the Heroes.

Now, Gilgamesh CCC found himself in the spiritually virtual multiverses (or worlds) of SE.RA.PH created by MoonCell.

So no Gaia's Counter force and he could stay in out of the Throne of Heroes by himself, when he regains his true form with Genesis Mystic Code, he was already hugely more powerful than FSF Gilgamesh.

MoonCell he was considered a cheater because he exceeded the laws of MoonCell and the universe. He can infinitely increase his statistics via the infinity of NP contained in GoB. Speed ​​capable of following omnipresence and moving at illogical speed.

Firepower can also be increased infinitely. This is all thanks to the fact that he self-applies his NPs to his stats. (I think that's why he was called a cheater).

We add to this the ability of EA to erase all things to leave nothingness, and understand why CCC Gilgamesh is called absolute being, and that Nasu declares him the strongest. Not by his firepower alone which is declared by Nasu to be equal to Artoria's Excalibur alive (although he can still increase it with his other NPs). But by all of its statistics and its capacity to be able to erase everything via Enuma Elish (EA), EA which I recall is the first (sword, same weapon) created before the world, hence the fact that Shirou does not can't copy it and says it's the only weapon that doesn't exist in this world and Gilgamesh is the only one who can wield it.

And in Genesis Code he is immune to everything (at least nothing affected him in CCC from the moment he got it)

Gilgamesh CCC Genesis code (or living form) is by far the 2nd most powerful being in the Nasuverse, just behind Akasha who is the source of all things. The other versions can also be, but it will not be necessary to counter-force and that they can maintain themselves in the worlds. That's why others are stronger than regular Gilgamesh (in FGO and others)

In summary Gilgamesh living form and CCC Gilgamesh Genesis code, is the most powerful being in the Nasuverse without taking Akasha into account, so GodJuna loses.

Notes: -Arcueid is califier of 2nd Cheating Servant because she can increase her strength to be slightly superior to her opponent, it is thanks to the backup the TerreGaia which boosts her, and it seems to me that she can reduce her opponent's power to 1 / 6 (only on Earth I coir), but against composite Gilgamesh, it is useless because he can increase his stats infinitely, so 1/6 of infinity remains infinity, and Increased above his power with Ultimate One is not possible because Gaia will not be able to rise higher than Gil Genesis codes.

-Gilgamesh keeps his true form at the end of CCC because he goes to another world with Hakuno apart from MoonCell, another spiritual world which is not the universe (supposedly 4D) that MoonCell observes. So no Gaia and counter force that would be in danger because of his true form and no more MoonCell to erase Hakuno.

Akasha Void Shiki (KnK)> Gilgamesh true form (genesis code) ∞> Arcrueid (Ultimate One)> = Amaterasu >> Sefar and Servant high level Extraverse > MoonCell=BB > Servants Extraverse >>>> Gilgamesh Fate / SF> Arjuna Alter = High Level Servants> Void Shiki (Saber FGO)> Middle Level> = Ryougi Shiki (Assassin) = Regular Gilgamesh> Low Level Servant >> Ryougi Shiki (KnK) >> Mages >> Normal humans

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SixPathsOfCapra

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Wtf is this thread. Ccc Gil neg diffs.

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SullGoddd

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#45  Edited By SullGoddd

@semiramisas said:

In fact Gilgamesh FSF and CCC are the ones who have shown the best achievement in all of Nasuverse:

Gilgamesh Fate Stranger Fake is summoned without his true form which is Genesis code or his power during his lifetime. So he was really limited just like most of the Servants being a danger to the planet Earths (Gaia would try to fire him if he appeared in his original form like in CCC). Gilgamesh at SNI (all Gilgamesh "FSN / FGO ... have it) SNI is his omniscience, he only uses it very rarely because he is too arrogant except Gil CCC who is more serious, in FSF he decides to have fun went with his friend Enkidu and used EA and launched Enuma Elish at higher power than usual, the entire CREATION started compressing atop EA and went to be erased, but Enkidu was amplified by Gaia (the soul of the EARTH) to launch his own Enuma Elish which is a counter to Gilgamesh's.

To sum up, without the intervention of Enkidu and Gaia all creation will be erased by an attack from a Gilgamesh without its true form (genesis code) and reduced to the invocation by Gaia and the inability of the masters to maintain it with a higher power outside of the Heroes.

Now, Gilgamesh CCC found himself in the spiritually virtual multiverses (or worlds) of SE.RA.PH created by MoonCell.

So no Gaia's Counter force and he could stay in out of the Throne of Heroes by himself, when he regains his true form with Genesis Mystic Code, he was already hugely more powerful than FSF Gilgamesh.

MoonCell he was considered a cheater because he exceeded the laws of MoonCell and the universe. He can infinitely increase his statistics via the infinity of NP contained in GoB. Speed ​​capable of following omnipresence and moving at illogical speed.

Firepower can also be increased infinitely. This is all thanks to the fact that he self-applies his NPs to his stats. (I think that's why he was called a cheater).

We add to this the ability of EA to erase all things to leave nothingness, and understand why CCC Gilgamesh is called absolute being, and that Nasu declares him the strongest. Not by his firepower alone which is declared by Nasu to be equal to Artoria's Excalibur alive (although he can still increase it with his other NPs). But by all of its statistics and its capacity to be able to erase everything via Enuma Elish (EA), EA which I recall is the first (sword, same weapon) created before the world, hence the fact that Shirou does not can't copy it and says it's the only weapon that doesn't exist in this world and Gilgamesh is the only one who can wield it.

And in Genesis Code he is immune to everything (at least nothing affected him in CCC from the moment he got it)

Gilgamesh CCC Genesis code (or living form) is by far the 2nd most powerful being in the Nasuverse, just behind Akasha who is the source of all things. The other versions can also be, but it will not be necessary to counter-force and that they can maintain themselves in the worlds. That's why others are stronger than regular Gilgamesh (in FGO and others)

In summary Gilgamesh living form and CCC Gilgamesh Genesis code, is the most powerful being in the Nasuverse without taking Akasha into account, so GodJuna loses.

Notes: -Arcueid is califier of 2nd Cheating Servant because she can increase her strength to be slightly superior to her opponent, it is thanks to the backup the TerreGaia which boosts her, and it seems to me that she can reduce her opponent's power to 1 / 6 (only on Earth I coir), but against composite Gilgamesh, it is useless because he can increase his stats infinitely, so 1/6 of infinity remains infinity, and Increased above his power with Ultimate One is not possible because Gaia will not be able to rise higher than Gil Genesis codes.

-Gilgamesh keeps his true form at the end of CCC because he goes to another world with Hakuno apart from MoonCell, another spiritual world which is not the universe (supposedly 4D) that MoonCell observes. So no Gaia and counter force that would be in danger because of his true form and no more MoonCell to erase Hakuno.

Akasha Void Shiki (KnK)> Gilgamesh true form (genesis code) ∞> Arcrueid (Ultimate One)> = Amaterasu >> Sefar and Servant high level Extraverse > MoonCell=BB > Servants Extraverse >>>> Gilgamesh Fate / SF> Arjuna Alter = High Level Servants> Void Shiki (Saber FGO)> Middle Level> = Ryougi Shiki (Assassin) = Regular Gilgamesh> Low Level Servant >> Ryougi Shiki (KnK) >> Mages >> Normal humans

Living Artoria's Excalibur = Suppressed, un-amped by treasury, servant Gilgamesh's Ea that doesn't use any of its reality/concept destroying functions.

I'd say that she could possibly be around the same level as his semi-serious Ea that he used against Tiamat if she fully unleashed Excalibur though (Assuming exponential growth per seal released) while realistically she'd be decently above Ishtar's NP and Quetzcoatl's NP but not coming anywhere close to Gilgamesh's ( Forgot it was a universe busting attack).

She cannot compete with an actual serious Ea though .

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TypeIV

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#46  Edited By TypeIV

Just popping in to say Extra Arcueid one shots CCC Gilgamesh and in her highest form (Archetype Earth) solos Fate.

Peace out.

Oh, and CCC Gilgamesh blinks Grand Order.

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SemiramisAS

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@sullgoddd: Yes Excalibur cannot compete with EA of a serious Gil Genesis code (or true form) because Ecalibur has no capacity to erase and reduced to void. What Nasu was saying recently was about their firepower only, Artoria alive couldn't even come close to what Gilgamesh Stranger Fake is doing. (I think)

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SullGoddd

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#48  Edited By SullGoddd

@typeiv said:

Just popping in to say Extra Arcueid one shots CCC Gilgamesh and solos Fate as Archetype Earth.

Peace out.

Oh, and CCC Gilgamesh blinks Grand Order.

Extra Arcueid was beaten by Tamano/Nero/EMIYA and Nasu has already stated that since her ability is limited to only singular entities, she cannot counter Gate of Babylon's infinite versatility and firepower so no. Her control over the moon-cell holds no stakes in an actual fight and Gilgamesh's feat of escaping was actually more impressive since he brute-forced his way out due to having no authority over it so don't bring it up, ZGT.

Archetype Earth is nigh-featless.

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TypeIV

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#49  Edited By TypeIV

@sullgoddd: You mean the one that has none of her abilities and is fodder? lol

It states that Arcueid normally has full control over the Moon Cell and can treat it as a reality marble, with the core (Holy Grail) being a simple part of her, and this is excluding Archetype Earth. Nasu already stated that Amaterasu is out of CCC Gilgamesh's league by saying that restricted Servant Arcueid with her sanity restored is the only one who has a small chance of beating her. That puts a restricted Servant Extra Arcueid (but granted far above the one we fought) in another league compared to CCC Gilgamesh. Archetype-Earth? She blinks. CCC Gilgamesh had to use 90% of his treasury just to override a law of the Moon Cell.

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SullGoddd

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#50  Edited By SullGoddd

@typeiv said:

@sullgoddd: You mean the one that has none of her abilities and is fodder? lol

It states that Arcueid normally has full control over the Moon Cell and can treat it as a reality marble, with the core (Holy Grail) being a simple part of her, and this is excluding Archetype Earth. Nasu already stated that Amaterasu is out of CCC Gilgamesh's league by saying that restricted Servant Arcueid is the only one who has a small chance of beating her. That puts a highly restricted Extra Arcueid (but granted far above the one we fought) in another league compared to CCC Gilgamesh. Archetype-Earth? She blinks.

Sorry, ZGT, but I've already debunked that statement.

In EXTRA and CCC, she is about the only one who is “Capable of defeating Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face), no matter how small the chance might be

CCC Genesis Form Gilgamesh is shown to be far above post training Tamano = Amaterasu who's logically ~ Archetype Earth IG and the statement that Nasu made about them fighting would still apply to their CCC versions.

If you try to say that Arcueid is stronger than CCC Genesis Gilgamesh, your basically trying to say that she's stronger than Akasha and that's basically trying to say Gaia > Akasha even though that makes no sense at all.