at the best multi universal because he didnt destroy a 4d + object containing universes (not theoretical like real). Gils only 4d feat is killing tiamat who is a 4d space with IM (but that was a weakend state that had been super nerfed) from what i think you're coming from, i don't want to talk about things gil might have in his gate and look at what's actually shown and explained.
As for the thread Goetia Alone solos, MHX solos, Chaos Solos, Zeus solos with one lighting bolt (Maybe, But Gil might survive like he did to space ishtars beam from space in battle of new york. Note its not living galaxy just evil ishtar with her big ship that can destroy planets or continents i belive)
Arcuied only got buffed conceptually i believe, she shouldn't be relevant since she isn't archetype. and she isn't acasual.
*Sigh* Gilgamesh is not Multiversal in CCC, he's not even Universal. He's stronger than people give him credit for(He can explicitly destroy Humanities' Reality as a whole with Enuma Elish which would be the entire Solar System... if it was the Servantverse where the "Human Race"'s influence reached the Galaxy, he would be Galaxy like MHX is)
Goetia would solo because Goetia's AAS Conglomerate is literally an entire Galaxies' worth of energy and he would only need just one of those as a single AAS can tear through a planet with just the heat, not the actual energy behind the attack.
BB has STAR rank stats before even becoming the Moon Cell, which is basically stated to be infinite. The Moon Cell core contains infinite possible futures that the user can put into effect on the outside reality. Higher dimensions in the Moon Cell view lower ones as completely flat and compared it to a character hopping out of a book, to which the Moon Cell has 8 of these dimensions. BB became the Moon Cell itself and Gilgamesh gained power equivalent to her own in his Genesis form. He also has absurd hax like Ten Crowns, which is an ability where the user can negate any action or event entirely from ever existing, simply because the user does not accept it. Combine that with EE and his overall power, and i don't see why he doesn't stomp.
I'm currently reading Tsukihime Remake on the Switch and I finished Arcueid's route but I'm still reading Ciel's and I don't remember so called Full Power Arcueid? I only saw her use her Marble Phantasm crushing Roa during the final fight and an entire mansion building down. But I haven't seen this full power yet.
Even then Roa just turned back time and revived himself lol.
Most of the people above stomp Gilgamesh & Arcueid without any difficulty. Let's talk about Gilgamesh first...
Gilgamesh in his mystic form unleashed version (most powerful version) only beat Bb because with the aide of the school resources and its stated that in a 1v1, Gilgamesh has a 0.999% chance of beating Bb. Kiara absorbed the moon cell core, bb, ai sakura, passionlip, and meltryllis. the only reason she loses to hakuno’s ccc servants (gil, nero, emiya, tamamo) empowered by the mythological mystic code is that all the people she had absorbed were in love with hakuno, and thus, prevented her from using her abilities against them. even with these limitations, kiara claims that had she known beforehand she wouldn’t be able to fight them directly, she could have simply blasted them to another realm, only to destroy that realm along with them right after. without these restraints, kiara is considered “omnipotent”, and a true daemon on par with buddha.
Therefore, Kiara, Bb, Buddha > Gilgamesh
Tamamo in her 9 tails form is stated to be the strongest character in Extra CCC (besides sefar obviously). Tamamo herself says that she's relative / weaker than Goetia. Goetia himself says that Tiamat would "obliterate" him & Lion king Artoria claims the same
Therefore, Tiamat > Goetia >> Gilgamesh
Romulus Quirnius is = Zeus pre absorbing authorities, etc (basically a weakened Zeus). Zeus scales above Goetia because Holmes says that Zeus is the most powerful villain Chaldea faced so far.
Therefore, Zeus > Quirnius > Gilgamesh
And Morgan...12 rhongomyniads that she can simultaneously fire...each stated, by dr roman, to be 1200x stronger than ea...I rest my case
Nearly every single person who put above would easily beat Gilgamesh. Anyways now onto Arcueid..
I don't understand why she's soo highly regarded? She destroyed a multiverse? Not an impressive feat relative to Nasu verse (where every character originates from the root thus automatically scales above multiversal)
Nasu did an interview where he said primordial demons, shiki, arcueid are the most powerful characters not including servants so... yeah she isn't that strong. She is much much stronger than Gilgamesh thou
BB has STAR rank stats before even becoming the Moon Cell, which is basically stated to be infinite. The Moon Cell core contains infinite possible futures that the user can put into effect on the outside reality. Higher dimensions in the Moon Cell view lower ones as completely flat and compared it to a character hopping out of a book, to which the Moon Cell has 8 of these dimensions. BB became the Moon Cell itself and Gilgamesh gained power equivalent to her own in his Genesis form. He also has absurd hax like Ten Crowns, which is an ability where the user can negate any action or event entirely from ever existing, simply because the user does not accept it. Combine that with EE and his overall power, and i don't see why he doesn't stomp.
stumbled upon this. but arc dies (like quite literally from being too close to the curses in a weaker form). and gil in any form cant kill goetia. while the other can just desummon him.
ignoring the high tier nasuverse characters who might literally neg him (velber being a big example of the type of monster that can tank a full power enmua elish and isnt weak from it, even as altera).
he gets done dirty to another invicible hax that his mystic code wont be able to bypass. goetia would just be immune. and the others are either immortal or already becoming the most powerful in the series (alien god if she absorbs type-merc would be the most powerful thing on earth.)
Edit: chaos with 3 percent of his functions solos aswell
Lol, are you gay with Gilgamesh and make sex tapes with Gilgamesh, Zgtfreak?
You are a mentally deranged stalker, or a kid that has nothing better to do other than wanking nasuverse and Umineko. And also you have a ego like Gilgamesh.
They die at Goetia. Nevermind U-Olga, Chaos or Zeus.
Literally just Goetia is enough to remove Gilgamesh from the field with Nega summon then hit Arc with Ars Almadel Salomonis and she perishes on the spot.
Her luminous form comes into play afterwards but Goetia doesn't give a shit and neither does his team. Goetia then reloads his Ars Almadel Salomonis and Arcueid becomes heckin dead.
At that point Chaos probably just murders everything that isn't Zeus because it's directly stated to be far above the Earth and every planet in the solar system; with it's scale of Existence being so massive it can't even register humanity and only sees Earth as a fuel source.
Should tell you how much it didn't give a crap about any sort of defense the earth could mount.
Arc has an author statement of being stronger than PHH ORT so she might be able to pull off a win.
Gilgamesh is a complete non-factor though as everyone else is way stronger than him.
CCC Gilgamesh solos and Remake Arcueid is fodder to him. She has no feats above universal level. Current FGO ORT is also a joke to old Nasuverse high tiers.
Gilgamesh is only losing if it's Amaterasu as depicted in Extra Worlds, as she has feats above him in CCC. GO/Fate Worlds Amaterasu gets folded, considering her and every other character from the old canon that gets reworked and reintroduced in GO (like ORT) are rectonned to be fodder so Chaldea can actually do something with a bit of PIS and CIS here and there.
He naturally would get stomped by Kiara if it's CCC Kiara and he doesn't have Hakuno with him, but the picture seems to be GO Kiara.
He blinks the rest, who are new canon-only fodders that don't even qualify as mid tiers in Old Type-Moon. Hell, his physicals likely reach continental levels via Original Tsukihime and Angel Notes scaling, so he could stomp most of everyone here with just a normal strike, let alone any actual abilities.
Also, "other god tiers" implies CCC Gilgamesh is a god tier. He isn't. He's not even top 20 in Old Type-Moon.
@tsotso: apparently she got the strongest in the nasuverse statement but only has lion king level feats.
Oh! Almost forgot—Archertype earth is also a servant meaning she can’t hurt goetia now.
archetype arcueid is not a servant
the servant one is just a variant of arcueid just like third personality Shiki's despite the latter being stated to be omnipotent and able to reshape reality
@yoroshi0: That's OG Amaterasu. I agree she'd beat Gilgamesh.
But OP seems to be using Extella/Remake/Grand Order canon, meaning it doesn't apply. Extella has wonky stuff like Base Gilgamesh being above the Origin Servants, which is not compatible with the original Extra.
Regarding Arcueid, that is referring to her regaining her sanity as a Berserker. The real unrestricted Arcueid would be above Amaterasu. But this is Remake Arcueid, so lol.
@yoroshi0: That's OG Amaterasu. I agree she'd beat Gilgamesh.
But OP seems to be using Extella/Remake/Grand Order canon, meaning it doesn't apply. Extella has wonky stuff like Base Gilgamesh being above the Origin Servants, which is not compatible with the original Extra.
Regarding Arcueid, that is referring to her regaining her sanity as a Berserker. The real unrestricted Arcueid would be above Amaterasu. But this is Remake Arcueid, so lol.
@chainchan: So apparently a character from the Tsukihime Remake, which all have speed feats massively below the speed of sound, shit physicals, and unimpressive abilities can edge out against Fate/GO, yet a guy who defeated someone controlling the abstract laws governing reality is getting fodderized?
I dislike Gilgamesh and Fate/Extra as a whole, but he muderstomps everyone here. If it was CCC Kiara and Amaterasu, he'd get stomped though.
@chainchan: So apparently a character from the Tsukihime Remake, which all have speed feats massively below the speed of sound, shit physicals, and unimpressive abilities can edge out against Fate/GO, yet a guy who defeated someone controlling the abstract laws governing reality is getting fodderized?
One Person with Authority and backing (With the same Scaling) over the verse?...vs some Dude who cant do what you said he could do. but i wont go there.
I dislike Gilgamesh and Fate/Extra as a whole, but he muderstomps everyone here. If it was CCC Kiara and Amaterasu, he'd get stomped though.
GO Kiara using a DGP was able to see and absorb CCC Kiara...?
@chainchan: One Person with Authority and backing (With the same Scaling) over the verse?...vs some Dude who cant do what you said he could do.but i wont go there.
They aren't really from the same verse when they are from entirely separate canons with massively incompatible lore. The start of New TM was literally Extella rectonning Extra and several other things that transcend timeline differences, meaning you can't use that as an excuse.
I have a post > here < explaining how someone Gilgamesh defeated (BB) has feats shitting on Goetia and everything in GO. Gilgamesh got several power-ups and amps in CCC.
GO Kiara using a DGP was able to see and absorb CCC Kiara...?
She merged with the personality of her Modern TM CCC equivalent. She didn't gain her power. In fact, it states explicitly that GO Kiara is weaker than her moon self:
Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III, they say that she had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill. - Fate/Grand Order material V
Fate/GO god tiers fail to blitz Servants, can't warp the abstract laws of reality to any notable degree, let alone without any special circumstances, can't just instantly wipe Chaldea, etc. They're pathetic. Rectonned ORT especially, who lost by getting rushed down by an immortal brick.
that doesn't suffice for a separation of continuity, especially when you said something something..."New TM has and accepts Contradictions" But what does that have to do with Remake Arc having Authority over TM?
I have a post > here < explaining how someone Gilgamesh defeated (BB) has feats shitting on Goetia and everything in GO. Gilgamesh got several power-ups and amps in CCC.
Not much going on there.
GO Kiara using a DGP was able to see and absorb CCC Kiara...?
"She merged with the personality of her Modern TM CCC equivalent."
Assuming the Conclusion within your Premise?
She didn't gain her power. In fact, it states explicitly that GO Kiara is weaker than her moon self:
Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III, they say that she had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill. - Fate/Grand Order material V
Gallery
Did Brodie Cite a Botched Profile? cause that quote seemingly does not exist anywhere but that reddit translation (That also...seemingly get's her skill rank wrong?)
Fate/GO god tiers fail to blitz Servants, can't warp the abstract laws of reality to any notable degree, let alone without any special circumstances, can't just instantly wipe Chaldea, etc. They're pathetic. Rectonned ORT especially, who lost by getting rushed down by an immortal brick.
Haven't seen LB7 (Or played F/GO in a year), so no comment, but the rest doesn't even matter if virtual space (IIRC) is the domain where these concepts are "warped"
but my overall thought is: Arc Carries--while Gil get's one shotted by Zeus's lighting bolt or something.
@chainchan: You are 100% aware of how people use the term recton for fiction a lot of the time. It can refer to changes that are completely incompatible and cause contradictions.
There is no new lore that provides an alternative interpretation to Old TM. Only completely one hundred percent incompatible lore changes.
Do I need to list them, as I have done with others?
Not much going on there.
That's not an argument, so I'll take that as a concession.
Assuming the Conclusion within your Premise?
How so? lmao
DidBrodieCite a Botched Profile? cause that quote seemingly does not exist anywhere but that reddit translation (That also...seemingly get's her skill rank wrong?)
@chainchan:DidBrodieCite a Botched Profile? cause that quote seemingly does not exist anywhere but that reddit translation (That also...seemingly get's her skill rank wrong?)
You got caught lying.
You translated something from the Fate/GO wiki, acting as if that's from the guidebook I cited.
This is the source I'm talking about:
And even basic as hell translation websites clearly say the same thing as the Reddit translation:
(Notice her skill is the exact same rank too, so I have no idea what you're going on about here.)
And it's backed up by feats. GO Kiara needed some big convoluted plan to merge with a single celestial body. Meanwhile, CCC Kiara is of universal scale and power, with "universe" in this context referring to the greater universe containing all celestial bodies in a timeline:
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is a Deva [deity] of universe’s scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm. - Fate/Extra Materials
So how does that make sense, hm? GO Kiara is supposedly above Old TM CCC Kiara, yet one is of universal scale and one struggled to merge with a single celestial body.
Regardless, the actual Fate/Extra CCC takes place in Old TM, as it's completely incompatible with Extella in countless of ways, let alone everything else that came later. At best, GO Kiara merged mentally with some Modern TM equivalent of CCC Kiara. Nothing new. Modern TM has several replications of characters from series that fundamentally cannot co-exist with modern lore, like a butchered version of Ryougi that's basically a different character and isn't from the original KnK.
but the rest doesn't even matter if virtual space (IIRC)
This virtual argument has been shot dead billions of times by many. The Moon Cell isn't some sub-reality level video game, considering it directly can influence Earth, with BB's power explicitly doing so, which my post I linked proved.
If you're going to go that route, I'll just mention that Fate/GO's Root is a physical space, meaning it isn't some abstract omnipotent source, meaning Fate/GO's multiverse is subordinate and contingent upon a higher physical dimension, no different from a video game world, basically making it sub-reality level. You really don't want to go there, because unlike your argument, mine actually works due to making sense and being backed up by what is shown.
@chainchan: You are 100% aware of how people use the term recton for fiction a lot of the time. It can refer to changes that are completely incompatible and cause contradictions.
There is no new lore that provides an alternative interpretation to Old TM. Only completely one hundred percent incompatible lore changes.
Do I need to list them, as I have done with others?
Doesn't make a new Story. and Publishers/Companies can still refer to them.
That's not an argument, so I'll take that as a concession.
An Argument or a debate occurs when there's opposition--and this applies to points.
so with that in mind, IF you disagree--feel free to propose the negative, "There is much going on here." otherwise, there isn't a concession or any meaningful interaction because the statement in the first place (like you recognized before spiraling) doesn't do/affect your statement.
How so? lmao
Aside from the light concession, you used "New TM Equivalent" so that you could go on uninhabited/hold no responsibility by recognizing the statement, however you Presupposes a distinction when that's the thing in question.
Don't know why you'd use an A.I. over an actual human to translate shit.
More Consistent than a random Redditor...who somehow added more Kanji to translate for that statement? lol. but here's the fun part.
And why would I trust you over a non-battle boarder with no stakes in powerscaling?
You say this as if I TRANSLATED the statement myself and not AI. What's WORSE is that i'm both getting my initial translations, kanji, from a site that only state Game Stats/and Mats. Worst Skeptic strat i've seen.
Especially when that Reddit has a reputation of providing better translations than the actual Fate/GO official translation, considering it has things like "multiversal" Amaterasu, "Altria", etc.
Good thing i'm on the Fan/Mat Website that gives the Kanji in question.
And it's backed up by feats.
The statement doesn't exist?
GO Kiara needed some big convoluted plan to merge with a single celestial body. Meanwhile, CCC Kiara is of universal scale and power, with "universe" in this context referring to the greater universe containing all celestial bodies in a timeline:
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is a Deva [deity] of universe’s scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm. - Fate/Extra Materials
So how does that make sense, hm? GO Kiara is supposedly above Old TM CCC Kiara, yet one is of universal scale and one struggled to merge with a single celestial body.
There's no comparison...? i know you want to appeal to "Each have the same Metaphysical Realms as Earth" but almost every plot-point in F/GO is leading/specifically stating that Earth is fundamentally different than the rest of the Cosmos--to the point a copy of the planet is viewed with the potential of single handily being the "Enemy of the Universe"
Regardless, the actual Fate/Extra CCC takes place in Old TM, as it's completely incompatible with Extella in countless of ways, let alone everything else that came later. At best, GO Kiara merged mentally with some Modern TM equivalent of CCC Kiara. Nothing new. Modern TM has several replications of characters from series that fundamentally cannot co-exist with modern lore, like a butchered version of Ryougi that's basically a different character and isn't from the original KnK.
Assuming the same things--with stuff that isn't as groundbreaking as you think.
This virtual argument has been shot dead billions of times by many. The Moon Cell isn't some sub-reality level video game, considering it directly can influence Earth, with BB's power explicitly doing so, which my post I linked proved.
The Stuff that can be achieved in Virtual Space is majorly different than "Real Space."
Yes, manipulation can occur regarding Earth's surface--but to what extent? "Physical." Can others Achieve the same effect? "Yes."
If you're going to go that route, I'll just mention that Fate/GO's Root is a physical space, meaning it isn't some abstract omnipotent source, meaning Fate/GO's multiverse is subordinate and contingent upon a higher physical dimension, no different from a video game world, basically making it sub-reality level.
We could go back to the Self Contradictory "Old TM" that exists as both Potential, and Actuality....
You really don't want to go there, because unlike your argument, mine actually works due to making sense and being backed up by what is shown.
@chainchan: Doesn't make a new Story. and Publishers/Companies can still refer to them.
It does when you consider the fact the old series cannot exist in the new. GO even uses the Tsukihime Remake.
An Argument or a debate occurs when there's opposition--and this applies to points.
so with that in mind, IF you disagree--feel free to propose the negative, "There is much going on here." otherwise, there isn't a concession or any meaningful interaction because the statement in the first place (like you recognized before spiraling) doesn't do/affect your statement.
You are arguing CCC Gilgamesh gets stomped. I cited the abilities of someone he is relative to and defeated, with the point being she clearly blinks Fate/GO. You provided no counterargument.
Aside from the light concession, you used "New TM Equivalent" so that you could go on uninhabited/hold no responsibility by recognizing the statement, however you Presupposes a distinction when that's the thing in question.
I use "New TM equivalent" because Extella is incompatible with Extra. It has a rewritten version of Extra to fit it in the form of Extella Zero, and a vaguely referenced unseen version of CCC that is massively different, considering Hakuno has all 4 Servants in that one.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter, considering GO Kiara doesn't scale to her Modern TM equivalent of her CCC self at all. I've proven that. It's explicitly stated.
More Consistent than a random Redditor...who somehowadded more Kanji to translate for that statement?lol. but here's the fun part.
You seemed to have read my unfinished post before I edited it. There was more to my reply proving that you are being dishonest. I'll repost here for you:
You got caught lying.
You translated something from the Fate/GO wiki, acting as if that's from the guidebook I cited.
This is the source I'm talking about:
And even basic as hell translation websites clearly say the same thing as the Reddit translation:
(Notice her skill is the exact same rank too, so I have no idea what you're going on about here.)
There's no comparison...? i know you want to appeal to "Each have the same Metaphysical Realms as Earth" but almost every plot-point in F/GO is leading/specifically stating that Earth is fundamentally different than the rest of the Cosmos--to the point a copy of the planet is viewed with the potential of single handily being the "Enemy of the Universe"
Every planet is different from each other. Celestial bodies are all different realities with different abstract laws governing them. The greater universe contains them all though obviously as an overarching reality.
So yeah, saying Gaia is different from other celestial bodies in the cosmos that are not Gaia is kinda a no brainer. Doesn't have any relation to the fact the greater universe contains Gaia and that CCC Kiara is explicitly at that level, with it even saying she can manage the solar system, which would include Gaia.
Furthermore, it implies humanity is the enemy of the cosmos, not Gaia IIRC. But this doesn't help your argument regardless.
The Stuff that can be achieved in Virtual Space is majorly different than "Real Space."
The laws of physics are different in it because it's a different reality. This isn't something unique to the Moon Cell. Even Gaia's Reverse Side doesn't have our laws of physics:
The place where the evil dragon Fafnir finally arrived at the very end of the novels. The Phantasmal Races, having understood that the Age of the Gods was over, ceded the Earth’s surface to humans and moved to this place. The world where humans currently live (including the laws of physics) is like a fabric that thinly extends across the surface of the planet. Beneath that fabric exist the planet known as “Earth.” On the other hand, the Reverse Side of the World is the world as it was before humans lived there… that is, the fabric of the era where Phantasmal Races strode the land. In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World.”- Fate/Apocrypha Material
The laws of physics, however, merely allow one to have different physical capabilities of course. The rules of reality are different. This has no bearing on someone who can manipulate the abstract rules themselves.
Yes, manipulation can occur regarding Earth's surface--but to what extent? "Physical." Can others Achieve the same effect? "Yes."
My point was that if the Moon Cell was some sub-reality video game, it couldn't affect the Earth physically at all, yet it can. Its reality warping is limited against Gaia for the reasons I mentioned in that post of mine I linked to you. That being that Gaia is its own sentient celestial body that has control over abstract laws as well, and we see it actively try to stop foreign reality warping. That's a feat for Gaia, nothing more (and Old TM Gaia specifically).
We could go back to the Self Contradictory "Old TM" that exists as both Potential, and Actuality....
You lost that debate horribly. No need. I'll link it > here < for anyone to see.
Brodie...how old are you?
You're asking me that while calling me "brodie". lol (Great counterargument btw.)
It doesn't. and additionally GO uses both the Remake, and the Old, along with Mahoyo, Which states:
The special guest of the 7th Anniversary. An individual that has a different form and personality with each Ascension. Ascension 1 is the future: the original form of an ideal world. Ascension 2 is the present: the result of a coincidence. Ascension 3 is the past: a what-if in which the mistake was not made. In addition, Ascension 2 is Arcueid Brunestud from 3 years after a certain route in Tsukihime: A piece of blue glass moon.
You are arguing CCC Gilgamesh gets stomped. I cited the abilities of someone he is relative to and defeated, with the point being she clearly blinks Fate/GO. You provided no counterargument.
Why would defeating a seemingly suppressed opponent with low odd's of winning give you both there Hax, Resistances, and Feats/Position?
I use "New TM Equivalent" because Extella is incompatible with Extra. It has a rewritten version of Extra to fit it in the form of Extella Zero, and a vaguely referenced unseen version of CCC that is massively different, considering Hakuno has all 4 Servants in that one.
It wouldn't matter what Extella would have when CCC Servants in GO differ in Lore, and classification/place of origin.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter, considering GO Kiara doesn't scale to her Modern TM equivalent of her CCC self at all. I've proven that. It s explicitly stated.
I'll address this later.
You seemed to have read my unfinished post before I edited it. There was more to my reply proving that you are being dishonest. I'll repost here for you:
"Unfinished" Huh?
You got caught lying.
You translated something from the Fate/GO wiki, acting as if that's from the guidebook I cited.
This is the source I'm talking about:
And even basic as hell translation websites clearly say the same thing as the Reddit translation:
(Notice her skill is the exact same rank too, so I have no idea what you're going on about here.)
Love to see where the Origin is--but besides that, no. I didn't lie.
the statement doesn't exist on Beast III and only on the Materials--Servant's (From what i'm seeing)profile, but yeah, i didn't know the origin (to which i asked around before you even posted or edited, just to be sure) nor how the material book stated an unnecessary clarification that just leads to "Beast Kiara can beat Savior (Or at least face him with the Skill) While CCC Kiara cant, and needs to run away(?)" the difference is either negligible, or big--in your case, you want to propose the latter...which doesn't really change anything if the difference between Beast III, and CCC Kiara...is a skill away from running from an opponent, regardless of existence.
Every planet is different from each other. Celestial bodies are all different realities with different abstract laws governing them. The greater universe contains them all though obviously as an overarching reality.
Where did you get this?
So yeah, saying Gaia is different from other celestial bodies in the cosmos that are not Gaia is kinda a no brainer. Doesn't have any relation to the fact the greater universe contains Gaia and that CCC Kiara is explicitly at that level, with it even saying she can manage the solar system, which would include Gaia.
The Same Gaia that also does that..and produces and contains said character and i just said that Gaia..while cloned, is either possessing the ability to make it a threat/enemy to said collective (and Stand Out forever) or has the potential to have it. But either way, becoming it, is a better hax/state than anything CCC Kiara would be--especially if the former is True.
Furthermore, it implies humanity is the enemy of the cosmos, not Gaia IIRC. But this doesn't help your argument regardless.
Through actions only possible with Chaldeas???
The laws of physics are different in it because it's a different reality. This isn't something unique to the Moon Cell. Even Gaia's Reverse Side doesn't have our laws of physics:
The laws of physics, however, merely allow one to have different physical capabilities of course. The rules of reality are different. This has no bearing on someone who can manipulate the abstract rules themselves.
That's not at all what i'm talking about. I'm referring to the Metaphysics that allows Virtual Space laws to be warped (IN addition to how Real Space is like what...pseudo nerfed and mythological things are buffed?)
Yes, manipulation can occur regarding Earth's surface--but to what extent? "Physical." Can others Achieve the same effect? "Yes."
My point was that if the Moon Cell was some sub-reality video game, it couldn't affect the Earth physically at all, yet it can.
Okay?
Its reality warping is limited against Gaia for the reasons I mentioned in that post of mine I linked to you. That being that Gaia is its own sentient celestial body that has control over abstract laws as well, and we see it actively try to stop foreign reality warping.
Isn't Gaia dead in Exta?
That's a feat for Gaia, nothing more (and Old TM Gaia specifically).
A Feat....for the surface being manipulated..with a dead (Presuming it's dying or some sort) Gaia?
We could go back to the Self Contradictory "Old TM" that exists as both Potential, and Actuality....
You lost that debate horribly. No need. I'll link it > here < for anyone to see.
"Well Uhm...Will...plus...make it so happen...i uh dont know how to start my series but just let it happen!" to summarize...and a dragonball debater coming up to Son educate you? not like i stayed but...
You're asking me that while calling me "brodie". lol (Great counterargument btw.)
Dude stated a belief and wants me to argue against it but, no. it's a Genuine question, Enviid said u were a Millenial? and i'm assuming that's correct?
@chainchan: It doesn't. and additionally GO uses both the Remake, and the Old, along with Mahoyo, Which states:
It doesn't use the original.
As for Mahoyo, sure, you could maybe argue that. Granted, Mahoyo's lore on the Second Magic is in direct contradiction with one of the Tsukihime Remake guidebooks, so it may be more of a rectonned version, but whatever. Some series can be canon to both Old and New TM if they fit both.
Fate/Extra is not one of those series.
Kara no Kyoukai especially isn't.
And obviously the original Tsukihime isn't.
The special guest of the 7th Anniversary. An individual that has a different form and personality with each Ascension. Ascension 1 is the future: the original form of an ideal world. Ascension 2 is the present: the result of a coincidence. Ascension 3 is the past: a what-if in which the mistake was not made. In addition, Ascension 2 is Arcueid Brunestud from 3 years after a certain route in Tsukihime: A piece of blue glass moon.
Basic reading comprehension tells you that this is referring to a past, present, and future version of Remake Arcueid existing. Ascension 1 is Remake Arcueid from the future, ascension 2 is her from the present, and 3 is her from an alternate past. This is evident by the fact that every single one of these Arcueid's has the appearance, voice, and personality of Remake Arcueid.
Why would defeating a seemingly suppressed opponent
Fanfiction.
with low odd's of winning
He only had a low chance of winning before Sakura dumped the resources of her territory/reality of the Near Side into Gilgamesh:
Though, even a low chance against BB would make one inconceivably above Fate/GO.
It wouldn't matter what Extella would have when CCC Servants in GO differ in Lore, and classification/place of origin.
One: I don't remember GO CCC's lore being in conflict with Extella's.
Two: Even if this was the case, you're arguing for irreconcilable lore as the reason why it can't be Extella's events of CCC, yet conveniently ignore the irreconcilable lore that cannot make it the original CCC either. Double standards.
Love to see where the Origin is--but besides that, no. I didn't lie.
I sent the source in my first message to you. The link was to a Reddit translation, but I cited the actual source in case you wanted to look it up. You're just being lazy now, but > here. <
the statement doesn't exist on Beast III and only on the Materials
The materials are canon, so it's irrelevant.
"Beast Kiara can beat Savior (Or at least face him with the Skill) While CCC Kiara cant, and needs to run away(?)"
Can you not read basic sentences? It never said that at all. Basic reading comprehension.
Where did you get this?
...
lol
Where do the celestial bodies exist? In the universe. So clearly the universe contains them.
The Same Gaia that also does that..and produces and contains said characterand i just said that Gaia..while cloned, is either possessing the ability to make it a threat/enemy to said collective (and Stand Out forever) or has the potential to have it. But either way,becoming it,is a better hax/state than anything CCC Kiara would be--especially if the former is True.
This is incoherent and horribly worded.
Who does Gaia contain?
Elaborate on the rest and cite sources.
Regardless, CCC Kiara = universal scale and power > celestial bodies within the universe > the GO Kiara being beneath Gaia and having to of created an elaborate plan to merge with it.
Through actions only possible with Chaldeas???
What?
That's not at all what i'm talking about. I'm referring to the Metaphysics that allows Virtual Space laws to be warped (IN addition to how Real Space is like what...pseudo nerfed and mythological things are buffed?)
Nothing states that virtual space makes altering its laws easier. The Moon Cell doesn't want anyone altering its laws without its consent. It only makes physical possibilities within the reality different from normal. That's unrelated to abstract reality warping.
The virtual world buffing gods based off belief applies only to gods, not BB, and certainly not the Servants who fought her.
Isn't Gaia dead in Exta?
No, it's mana dried up due to The Dark Six reviving.I believe it has started to die, as in it is in the beginning stages, but that is different from Gaia being fully dead, considering humans in their current technological state could not survive in The Land of Steel (Gaia's corpse), as we know via Notes.
"Well Uhm...Will...plus...make it so happen...i uh dont know how to start my series but just let it happen!" to summarize...and a dragonball debater coming up toSoneducate you? not like i stayed but...
This might just be the most incoherent, inane, and incomprehensible thing I've ever seen you type. Literally nothing you said here was comprehensible.
Dude stated a belief and wants me to argue against it but, no. it's a Genuine question, Enviid said u were a Millenial? and i'm assuming that's correct?
Look at Enviid's post history. It's a random deranged insult he uses against everyone. And he generally makes up random schizophrenic shit about people.
And what does any of this have to do with the discussion at hand?
@chainchan: It doesn't. and additionally GO uses both the Remake, and the Old, along with Mahoyo, Which states:
It doesn't use the original.
It does.
As for Mahoyo, sure, you could maybe argue that. Granted, Mahoyo's lore on the Second Magic is in direct contradiction with one of the Tsukihime Remake guidebooks, so it may be more of a rectonned version, but whatever. Some series can be canon to both Old and New TM if they fit both.
Fate/Extra is not one of those series.
Where is BB In Extella?
Kara no Kyoukai especially isn't.
Is Void a Necessary Generation? or a Contingent Generation? (Same Goes for ARC)
And obviously the original Tsukihime isn't.
Arc's First Ascension is a mention to AA???
Basic reading comprehension tells you that this is referring to a past, present, and future version of Remake Arcueid existing. Ascension 1 is Remake Arcueid from the past, ascension 2 is her from the present, and 3 is her from the future. This is evident by the fact that every single one of these Arcueid's has the appearance, voice, and personality of Remake Arcueid.
"Basic Reading Comprehension" says 3 is from the future when it says an ideal past (One likely where she never met Roa)? "Basic Reading Comprehension" Says "Original Ideal World" Isn't a distinction between The Remake?
Fanfiction.
He only had a low chance of winning before Sakura dumped the resources of her territory/reality of the Near Side into Gilgamesh:
Though, even a low chance against BB would make one inconceivably above Fate/GO.
a "Bit" isnt a set quantifier. for all i could know, it could be some .005 added with the addition of some holding back from BB, but i'll wait to see what i can discuss on that.
One: I don't remember GO CCC's lore being in conflict with Extella's.
Does BB Exist in Extella?
Two: Even if this was the case, you're arguing for irreconcilable lore as the reason why it can't be Extella's events of CCC, yet conveniently ignore the irreconcilable lore that cannot make it the original CCC either. Double standards.
The thing in Question is whether or not it's the original CCC. if it fits, it fits.
😭
I sent the source in my first message to you. The link was to a Reddit translation, but I cited the actual source in case you wanted to look it up. You're just being lazy now, but > here. <
I already got it from a friend who cited it to me.
The materials are canon, so it's irrelevant.
On the Servant Profile but nowhere in the game. but sure.
Can you not read basic sentences? It never said that at all. Basic reading comprehension.
Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III (What you're using for a distinction in power), they say that she (PD since GO never fights Savior from memory) had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill.
putting 1 and 2 together--we see that CCC Kiara is the only one who could fit this role of running away because she didn't have Nega-Saver. implying that the only thing between actually retreating/and fighting savior would be...this skill.
...
lol
Where do the celestial bodies exist? In the universe. So clearly the universe contains them.
You keep on yapping about reading comprehensions. is it not obvious im asking what thing constitutes a realm or two for a planet?
This is incoherent and horribly worded.
Who does Gaia contain?
Elaborate on the rest and cite sources.
Seemingly the Recorded Space of CCC from BB's Profile IIRC.
Regardless, CCC Kiara = universal scale and power > celestial bodies within the universe > the GO Kiara being beneath Gaia and having to of created an elaborate plan to merge with it.
No, it's more of a circle between, (GO Kiara >= Savior > CCC Kiara > (In Existence) > GO Kiara), all of which would be superseded by the Potential Kiara that fused with the Planet--which by itself would be above any potential life/thing in the cosmos to generate a threat to it (Both the observable, and un-observable).
What?
Chaldeas through a Model of the Universe and being a Copy of the planet IIRC -- is the most likely enabler of said threat. Not much to say concretely since it's on going, but the current event should be promising.
Nothing states that virtual space makes altering its laws easier.
Sure it does, it allows for a state of plasticity (Warp-ability) of Concepts.
The Moon Cell doesn't want anyone altering its laws without its consent. It only makes physical possibilities within the reality different from normal. That's unrelated to abstract reality warping.
The virtual world buffing gods based off belief applies only to gods, not BB, and certainly not the Servants who fought her.
I'll look for the statement.
No, it's mana dried up due to The Dark Six reviving.I believe it has started to die, as in it is in the beginning stages, but that is different from Gaia being fully dead, considering humans in their current technological state could not survive in The Land of Steel (Gaia's corpse), as we know via Notes.
How can we measure activity then/comparability to a normal Gaia?
This might just be the most incoherent, inane, and incomprehensible thing I've ever seen you type. Literally nothing you said here was comprehensible.
really? because it's your own words summarized in the thread.
Look at Enviid's post history. It's a random deranged insult he uses against everyone. And he generally makes up random schizophrenic shit about people.
That's too tedious.
And what does any of this have to do with the discussion at hand?
It doesn't, i'm just asking how old you are. no searching, no asking around, just upfront.
Nowhere because Extella takes place after Extella Zero (aka Extella's version of Extra to fit with the new canon), and its unseen version of CCC. The events with BB have already been dealt with. We know they happened since Gilgamesh knows Hakuno, Nero knows of the Origin Mystic Codes, etc.
Is Void a Necessary Generation? or a Contingent Generation? (Same Goes for ARC)
This question is irrelevant to the thread, but both are contingent.
Arc's First Ascension is a mention to AA???
It's not at all.
says 3 is from the future when it saysan ideal past(One likely where she never met Roa)? "Basic Reading Comprehension" Says "Original Ideal World" Isn't a distinction between The Remake?
Cited them backwards because I've been rushing around debating in threads I find far more interesting. But it doesn't change anything.
Says "Original Ideal World" Isn't a distinction between The Remake?
That's referring to a state of Gaia, not the original Tsukihime. You serious? lol
Does this look like OG Arcueid?
Not even remotely. It's clearly the Saberface/Jeanne ripoff Remake Arcueid.
a "Bit" isnt a set quantifier. for all i could know, it could be some .005 added with the addition of some holding back from BB, but i'll wait to see what i can discuss on that.
Absolutely, but a non-zero chance (Pre-Sakura Amped Origin Gilgamesh) >>>> no chance in hell (everyone in Fate/GO).
But again, this is referring to Gilgamesh before his peak.
The thing in Question is whether or not it's the original CCC. if it fits, it fits.
It doesn't fit though...
On the Servant Profile but nowhere in the game. but sure.
So you're ignoring official non-contradictory material because it doesn't suit your agenda. Noted.
Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III (What you're using for a distinction in power), they say that she (PD since GO never fights Savior from memory) had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill.
putting 1 and 2 together--we see that CCC Kiara is the only one who could fit this role of running away because she didn't have Nega-Saver. implying that the only thing between actually retreating/and fighting savior would be...this skill.
It never states that GO Kiara can fight Buddha just because she has Nega-Saver, only that it is one of the requirements needed to fight him, which seems to be some unexplained counter authority to another counter authority.
You keep on yapping about reading comprehensions. is it not obvious im asking what thing constitutes a realm or two for a planet?
No, you don't make it obvious, since how well you word your sentences is all over the place. Even this question isn't a proper follow up to the whole universe containing celestial bodies thing. Is English not your first language? Genuine question.
The realms in planets are their own spatially closed realities with their own laws governing them. My prior quote already mentioned that the laws of physics where humans live doesn't exist in the Reverse Side, meaning it has different laws.
Seemingly the Recorded Space of CCC from BB's Profile IIRC.
How does Gaia contain the Moon Cell's realities? That doesn't make any sense and isn't implied anywhere.
No, it's more of a circle between, (GO Kiara >= Savior > CCC Kiara > (In Existence) > GO Kiara), all of which would be superseded by the Potential Kiara that fused with the Planet--which by itself would be above any potential life/thing in the cosmos to generate a threat to it (Both the observable, and un-observable).
GO Kiara blatantly did not gain the power of her Moon Cell per her mats. Buddha > Moon Kiara > GO Kiara, who has one ability that is required to fight Buddha, but is not stated to be able to fight him overall just due to that ability alone.
^ And then Old TM Buddha and CCC Kiara blink those in that scaling chain because they have actual impressive feats and statements.
Chaldeas through a Model of the Universe and being a Copy of the planet IIRC -- is the most likely enabler of said threat. Not much to say concretely since it's on going, but the current event should be promising.
It's a copy of a portion of the planet IIRC, but that's irrelevant.
Sure it does, it allows for a state of plasticity (Warp-ability) of Concepts.
Not stated anywhere. Fanfiction.
How can we measure activity then/comparability to a normal Gaia?
Hm? I think you're missing the point. The point was that the Moon Cell's reality warping when used on Gaia is limited because Gaia is a sentient foreign celestial body that goes out of its way to counteract any foreign reality warping, which I've cited in that post I linked to you. We're not comparing Gaia to the Moon Cell to see which is better. It was just me explaining why its reality warping effects are limited when used on Gaia.
really?because it's your own words summarized in the thread.
Uhuh... Well ok buddy.
It doesn't, i'm just asking how old you are. no searching, no asking around, just upfront.
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