CaV:Naruto and Sasuke(thenewguysnm1) VS Meliodas and Estarossa(hittheassasin)

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#1 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio
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Rules

  • Meliodas and Estarossa are current
  • Naruto and Sasuke have all canon feats prior to their SO6P upgrades
  • Everyone is in-character and willing to work with their teammates
  • Meliodas and Estarossa's Full Counters will work
  • Estarosa's Commandment is not in affect for this battle
  • Starting distance is 20 meters
  • Win by Death or Incapitation
  • No Genjutsu that permanently uncaps or kills(only as a distraction)
  • Don't state your opinions on this match before voting and don't vote based on which characters you think would win, but rather which person you thought debated better

Location

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Is this good with you @thenewguysnm1?

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5c07a0327fd39 (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks good

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#4 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Streak619 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#6 Posted by Ultrra (182 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#7 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#8 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, actually, how do you feel about starting? I wanted to re-read SDS, just to get a new look/perspective on the series as a whole and the feats, of course.

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#10 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1 said:

@hittheassasin: looks good

Hmm, actually, how do you feel about starting? I wanted to re-read SDS, just to get a new look/perspective on the series as a whole and the feats, of course.

it might take awhile as im catching up on other cavs how quickly can you get one out

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#12 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5c07a0327fd39 (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#15 Edited by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio

Opener:Meliodas and Estarossa

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Needed SDS Terminology/Facts

Power Levels

A Power Level「闘級 Tōkyū」 is a person's pure fighting prowess presented as a numerical value. A person's total power level is the sum of three different values:

  • Magic「魔力 Maryoku」: a measure of magical power.
  • Strength「武力 Buryoku」: a measure of physical ability.
  • Spirit「気力 Kiryoku」: a measure of composure, determination and perseverance.

All-in-all, i'll be using the Strength levels to scale from other characters as, if you're strength level is a decent amount above another persons, you're physically superior to them in every sense. Magic, however, can't be scaled due to it's unique applications and the fact that everyone has a different magic power.

For reference, Meliodas' current overall power level is 142,000, with his physical strength being unknown, but definitely far superior to his previous 50,000.

Meanwhile, Estarossa's overall power is 60,000, with his physical strength being 53,000.

Weapons

In this manga a character will not be using the full amount of power at their disposal unless they are equipped with a good weapon. King explains it pretty well. So someone could have a strength level of, for example, 100, but if they're just swinging a wooden sword rather than a legitimate one then their full 100 strength level really doesn't matter because their blows will only be hitting their opponents with, arbitrarily, 25 strength for each blow. King's explanation accounts for the massive boost in power Meliodas obtains when using his Sacred Treasure rather than a good, if worn out, sword, despite his power level not changing because of getting it back.

This means that all feats of DC/striking power performed by characters

  1. Not using their weapons
  2. Not using weapons with enough quality

will always be far inferior to their DC/striking power using their own, standard weapons.This difference is actually gigantic as well, as it has been shown that characters in SDS can, at times, actually one-shot other characters with their weapons, that they couldn't even properly damage with a weaker weapon/with their bare fists. Keep this in mind when looking at Meliodas' or Estarossa's feats.

Bio

Meliodas「メリオダス」 is the captain of the Seven Deadly Sinsand the Dragon's Sin of Wrath. He is the owner of the renowned tavern Boar Hat, and the main protagonist of the series. His Sacred Treasure is the Demon Sword Lostvayneand his inherent power is Full Counter. He is also the former leader of the Ten Commandments, a former member of Stigma, and the Demon King's oldest son.

Physical Stats

Honestly, in terms of basic physical abilities Naruto and Sasuke are far outmatched by the 2 demons, especially Meliodas.

Meliodas breaks a large dungeon as the side-effect of his arm-wrestling contest with Ban. Also, the Dungeon was reinforced by a powerful spell, which was stated to be able to resist 10 Tyrant Dragons(with each one being able to level a town) making this feat even more impressive.

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The dungeon is actually huge as well, easily visible as a large mass from 8 miles away. Looking at the landscape, it's probably larger than a Hill and around the same size as the Town.

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A counter argument against this feat would obviously be that it was performed along with Ban. However, Meliodas strength level back then was 960 and Ban's was 930, for a combined total of 1,890, which is massively inferior to Mel's 50,000+, meaning current Meliodas could easily replicate this feat without Ban's help.

Considering Baste Dungeon's size, the spell that was reinforcing it and the ease of which this feat was performed(side-effect of an arm-wrestling contest), it already casually places Meliodas' basic physical strength at Town level and this was without a weapon.

Another great feat that perfectly showcases Meliodas' ridiculous physical strength and is also one of my personal favourites is this one, where he casually beats around and physically overpowers Galan <The Truth>.

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This is incredibly impressive due to Galan's ridiculous physical power. He was able to cut an entire hillside in half with the shockwave of one slash and the scan doesn't even show the full extent of the damage done.

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Honestly, due to the ease of which Meliodas accomplished this feat and the stupid physical strength of Galan, i'd have to say this feats puts Meliodas at the low end of Mountain level.

Last but not least, Meliodas actually has one more feat that suggests he's consistently on the level I just placed him on.

Prior to this, the Albion tanked Meliodas' slash with barely any damage. As shown by the Baste Dungeon feat, even this Meliodas already operates at around about Town level without any weapons and here he is unable to even damage an Albion with his regular weapon.

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Yet here, he casually cuts Albions arm into pieces after regaining his Sacred Treasure(super op sword). Keep in mind, Albions skin has shown Town Level durability.

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Adding that to Albion's sheer size shown in these scans,

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once again puts Meliodas with Lostvayne at low-end Mountain level.

Durability

Well, i should be able to get this one out of the way pretty quickly. None of Naruto or Sasuke's physical attacks have the power required to significantly hurt Meliodas, who has tanked a Giga Fall from Dolor, which was so strong it could be felt from Liones, which is 100+ miles away from where that fight took place.

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Once again, this places Mel's physical durability at Mountain level, which is more than either Naruto or Sasuke can dish out(interns of physical output).

If you need any more proof of that, here Meliodas tanks 54 of Derriere's hits, with each one adding 100 tons of striking power to her already ridiculous physical strength of 48,000.

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Remember, that's twice of Galan's 24,000, who was casually capable of this:

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Meliodas' Energy durability is probably even better than that. The only thing Naruto and Sasuke have that can hope to damage Mel are the Amaterasu Susanoo Arrow and the Bijuu Bomb, both of which can be Full Countered back at them. I say this because Meliodas has tanked Gloxinia's 1st form Spirit Spear attacks, which dwarf Mountains and literally come back in an instant.

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This also isn't an outlier, as Mel later tanked Fraudrins Starscream Breaker Blade as well.

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This is the same attack that easily broke through Griamors "Wall", which was confirmed to be able to tank Meteor strikes multiple times.

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To top it of, Meliodas also has some ridiculous pain tolerance, as shown when managed to initiate a Revenge Counter despite having lost an arm, the other being broken and having bruises and having cuts and burns all over his body.

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All-in-all, his insane durability coupled with his pain tolerance will allow Mel to survive any attacks Nardo and Sauce can dish out.

Speed

Interns of speed, Mel is easily on-par with your team though i wouldn't say anyone will blitz or even really outspeed anyone else here, due to your teams pre-cog.

Some speed feats for Mel include casually surpassing the speed of sound back at the beginning of the series, when he was way slower than currently, which would definitively place him at high hypersonic speeds currently.

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All things considered, Naruto and Sasuke really can't say the were that fast at the beginning of their show, can they?

Another great feat for Meliodas is casually reacting to and Full Countering a lightning bolt from Gilthunder at just Chapter 6 of the series, when he was far slower and holding back on top of that.

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Now, before you say that Gilthunders lightning somehow isn't the same speed as natural lightning, it was repeatedly stated to be a "thunderbolt, or "lightning" by multiple people and it literally comes from Thundercloads as well, as can be seen in the scan. It has great speed feats to, such as coming down from the Clouds(hundreds-thousands of meters) in the same time it took Gilthunder(easily supersonic) to swing his sword 1-2 meters(also in the scan), which, once again, would place it at around the same speed as natural lightning.

Keep in mind that both of these feats were performed by BoS Meliodas, who would be blitzed silly by the current one.

One last great combat speed feat for Meliodas is the utter blitzing and humiliation of Galan <The Truth>.

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The reason this is so impressive is because, earlier, this same Galan could react to and move 5+ kilometres before Merlins instantaneous spell could teleport him away and all of this faster than any of the other Sins,including Mel, who should be a lightning timer and casually supersonic at the time, could perceive.

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This would put Mel at so far beyond lightning speed and more towards Mach 1000+, considering that Galan performed the above feat in a split-second and Mel was way faster than him later on, as he demonstrated.

These were some great combat and reaction speed feats, now for some travel speed. This is important because it can be used to come back from Battle Field Removal, or to initiate a long distance blitz.

Here Meliodas returns in less than 3 seconds(faster than Gloxinia could heal Dolor, which was stated to only take 2-3 seconds) from being shot 8+ Miles(that's the length of Dolors maze and Mel was sent further than the Maze) away by Gloxinia's 1st form Spirit Spear.

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All-in-all the should prove both Mel's combat/reaction speed and travel speed are easily on the same level as Naruto and Sasuke's and these feats are all from when he was weaker and slower than he is currently.

Magic Powers

Meliodas has a variety of magic abilities, all which would be very useful in taking out Naruto and Sasuke.

Full Counter

Full Counter「全反撃フルカウンター Zen Hangeki (Furukauntā)」 is a reflective power possessed by the Dragon's Sin of Wrath, Meliodas, his younger brother Estarossa of the Ten Commandments, and the Pacifier Demon, Chandler.Full Counter enables its user to reflect attacks aimed at him back at the enemy, but with more than double the power; therefore, the stronger the opponent's powers are, the stronger the user's power becomes.

This ability will be extremely useful, as Mel will be using it to reflect literally all of your justus back in your face with much more power than before, which neither Naruto or Sasuke will be able to do anything about. Here are some examples of Meliodas abusing it to it's full extent against multiple opponents.

Here he uses it to reflect a bunch of attacks from different Holy Knights, all at once, proving it can be used against all kins of none physical attacks, even if they aren't strictly made of Energy(such as the stones and plants he reflects here), thus proving it will also work against things like lightning, fire, earth and wind style etc.

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It also works against physical attacks that use magic as their basis(f.x: this slash from Twigo, or a Chidori/Rasengan from Naruto or Sasuke)

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Regular energy attacks that don't have a physical form per say can also be reflected(looking at you Tailed Beast Bomb) as shown when he reflects Monspiets strongest magic energy attack.

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Physical Clone

Jitsuzō Bunshin「実像分身じつぞうぶんしん literally meaning "Physical Clone"」: The sacred treasure Lostvayne's special ability that allows Meliodas to create up to four clones of himself. [1] The clones only retain a fraction of the original's power, with one clone having half the power level of the original. The halved power level is divided among each additional clone.[2] Each Physical Clone is still able to use Full Counter to its full potential as the attack focuses on the enemy's attack power rather than the one using Full Counter, this allows Meliodas to use Full Counter multiple times on the same attack. Depending on the enemy and Meliodas's power level, it is additionally possible for him to use his clones to fight the enemy, dealing and taking damage without Meliodas himself getting involved in the fray.[3]

This ability will be used to counter Naruto's clones with Mel's own and to thwart any attempts to make Full Counter useless by attacking from multiple directions at the same time, as all of Mel's clones can use Full Counter, as shown against the Albion.

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Enchantment:Hellblaze

Enchantment: Hellblaze「付呪エンチャント・「獄炎ヘルブレイズ」 Fuju (Enchanto): Gokuen (Herubureizu)」 is a demonic enchantment possessed by the Dragon's Sin of Wrath, Meliodas,[1]Estarossa[2] and Zeldris[3] of the Ten Commandments, and the former Great Holy Knight, Hendrickson.[4] It makes use of the signature Purgatory Fire「煉獄の炎 Rengoku no Honō」 of the Demon Clan.Hellblaze is dark and mysterious power connected to the Demon Clan. The enchantment allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal. In battle Hellblaze can be imbued upon weapons to drastically increase their destructive potential, hurled as fireballs at an opponent or used in hand-to-hand combat.

Oh, look at that! Meliodas has his own version of Amaterasu, except it's better, as Hellblaze actually nullifies regen. Here Meliodas uses it against Dale and Ban remembers it being the thing that left the scar on his neck, despite his immortality.

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Meliodas can also use Hellblaze as a projectile or a fist to punch people with.

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Demon Powers

Really, these are the sickest Weapons in Mel's Arsenal, which allow him to make constructs such as wings and weapons, all of which are shown in the below scans.

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However, those are the least of ma mans sick demonic powers. He can also regenerate, as shown here when he reattaches the arm cut of by Ban and heals a stab wound through the chest.

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Last, but certainly not least, are the ridiculous destructive feats he can pull of with his darkness. Here he busts a hole in the ground to kill Gelda, a royal Vampire(u mad Zeldris?).

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This hole was later revealed to be a whooping 30,000 feet deep, which is a good few hundred meters deeper than Mount Everest is high, putting Mel's darkness at casual Mountain level in DC.

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With all of these insanely powerful and destructive magic powers, Nardo and Sauce are in for a rough time to say the least...

Estarossa The Love

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This part won't be nearly as long as the Mel part, for 2 reasons

  • Estarossa has way less feats to draw from
  • Estarossa plays the less important role out of the 2 of them

Bio

Estarossa「エスタロッサ」 is an elite warrior of the Demon Clan, serving directly under the Demon King as the Love of the Ten Commandments.[1] He is also the Demon King's second son and brother to Meliodas and Zeldris.

Physical Stats

Strength

Estarossa is really frickin' strong, his strength level is 53,000. For reference on how bloody impressive that is, someone with a strength level of 24,000(Galan) was capable of splitting a hillside with the shockwave of his slash.

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Keep in mind, Estaroosa could easily replicate this feat, as his Strength level is more than twice that of Galan.

However, Esta doesn't need scaling to prove he's an absolute Monster strength wise. Here he stops Meliodas' Revenge Counter with one-hand, which was confirmed to be 30x stronger than the one that one-shot Demon Hendrickson(for reference that requires City level power, as Hendy could no sell BoS Mel's attacks). Now, you could say that was thanks to his Commandment, but since it wasn't explicitly stated and since his Commandment is kinda wonky on when it wants to activate anyway, we shouldn't assume that.

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Due to the ridiculous power of Mel's Revenge Counter, this is easily a Mountain level physical feat.

Estarossa has also managed to do some damage and send Escanor flying with just his bare, squishy fists.

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The reason this is extremely impressive is because this same Escanor was previously not even moved by Galans Critical Over slash, which created a huge shockwave that cut 2 hills from literally miles away.

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This would, once again place Estarossa's striking power at casually Mountain level, possibly even higher than that.

Durability

Estarossa's Durability is also freakin' nuts, just look at it.

Here Ban fails to even pierce Estarossa's skin, despite his Fox Hunt previously working on the likes of Galan(Mountain level Durability) with ease!

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While this may be a great physical Durability feat, what about his Energy durability? Well, here Estarossa survives taking Escanors Cruel Sun, which was hot enough to melt steel from 5+ meters away and vaporised an entire lake with ease.

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Speed

Esta's speed is certainly nothing to scoff at.

First off, with his physical stat being 53,000, he gets scaling from Mel, who casually lightning timed back when his physical stat was only 960. So yeah, he's really f'in fast.

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Then there's also the fact that he reacted to Escanor at point-blank range.

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This is really impressive, due to the fact that Escanor could effortlessly blitz Galan.

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Keep in mind, Galan was capable of jumping 5 kilometres in an instant.

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Then there's also the fact that Esta was able to intercept Mel's Revenge Counter before the latter could react or perceive him, thus making him faster than Mel and if you remember the feats i posted for Meliodas, he's already really really fast himself.

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So yeah, Estarossa won't have any problems keeping up physically, whatsoever.

Magic Powers

Esta doesnt have nearly as much variety as Mel, but he's still a monster.

Full Counter

Full Counter「全反撃フルカウンター Zen Hangeki (Furukauntā)」 is a reflective power possessed by the Dragon's Sin of Wrath, Meliodas, his younger brother Estarossa of the Ten Commandments, and the Pacifier Demon, Chandler.Full Counter enables its user to reflect attacks aimed at him back at the enemy, but with more than double the power; therefore, the stronger the opponent's powers are, the stronger the user's power becomes.On the other hand, Estarossa can only reflect "physical" attacks.

Yeah, Esta has the other Full Counter. Basically, all none just attacks Nardo and Sasuke try can also be reflected, just by Estarossa instead, thus making any attacks they do meaningless.

Here Estarossa reflects Escanors strike back at him at 2x the power.

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Demon Powers

Estarossa hasn't showcased that many Demon Powers, but he too is capable of flight by using darkness.

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Additionally, he has shown some pretty great regenerative capabilities, by using it to regenerate the damage from Escanors Cruel Sun in seconds.

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Conclusion

  • My team wins due to greater physical stats
  • My team wins due to the ability to Full Counter your entire arsenal
  • My team wins due to regenerative abilities
  • My team wins due to being more badass and less windy than yours(ok, not really, but you get my point)

I'll leave the Strategy for my next post, so i can get directly into countering the strategy my opponent comes up with in his opener.

The balls in your court @thenewguysnm1.

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#20 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

sasuke

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Dodged an attack that moves at the speed of sound and blitzes his opponent:

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Outspeeds Gaara's sand which auto protects him:

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Reacts to KN0 Naruto who was previously blitzing him:

this is key as it shows his ability to adapt to his opponent

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During the time skip Sasuke's speed increases dramatically:

Here he reached Naruto while a chunin and two ANBU shinobi were present:

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Surprised Deidara with his speed forcing him to fight defensively:

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Reacted to the Raikage

I would go in dept on speed but as you yourself has stated no one is getting blitzed so yeah thats that

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Durability

In his Base he has withstood things like:

Explosions:

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Punches and Kicks from Jinchuriki

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Naruto (KNO)

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With Susanoo his durability is further amped:

Enton:

Sasuke is capable of shaping the flames into what he sees fit for battle purposes:

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Basically if you're in his sight and lack speed faster than he can see you're getting burned.

Susanoo:

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Susanoo is a chakra cloak that greatly amplifies Sasuke's durability and strength. Throughout the series it undergoes a few changes from incomplete to perfect. It is capable of crushing individuals, tanking numerous attacks (see durability scans), and firing high speed arrows all are mountain level or above..

Mastery over Eternal Magekyou Sharingan:

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Same as above however the chakra drain is servely decreased.

Susanoo:

Sasuke has more control over Susanoo and can further develop it.

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Here he manages to add legs to his susanoo and even perfect it

Artistry of the fire and lighting style

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Naruto uzumaki the child of prophecy

background

Naruto Uzumaki is the protagonist for the extremely popular series, Naruto. He is a very energetic and boisterous character, often labeled a knucklehead, or Konoha's Number One Hyperactive Knuckle-headed ninja to be exact. Often deemed a failure, Naruto worked hard and trained everyday to become one of the strongest "ninja" (I use the word in the loosest way possible) in his entire verse. Now he has achieved his dreams and has become Konohagakure's 7th Hokage (or the leader of the Hidden Leaf Village for those who don't follow the series). I'm going to touch up on some of his basic techniques, his move set, and his physical attributes while also convincing you that he can indeed beat Sora. Lets start with his basics in a section I like to call the Naruto Ninja Handbook (I'm going to try to give both names of techniques so people will know terminology).

Naruto's Ninja Handbook

Shadow Clones (Kagebunshin):

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This is the very first useful technique that Naruto learns. It is actually a forbidden technique created by the 2nd Hokage. This is one of Naruto's go to techniques and he is able to casually spam thousands. Each of his clones evenly divides up his chakra and are able to function independently. However, a common misconception is that his clones have fodder level durability and while that may have been true once upon a time, that is no longer the case.

now the clones are exact copies of naruto so all in all my clones are stronger and better than yours in every way including sherr size

Transformation (the technique):

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He is able to transform either himself of his clones into carbon copies of another person or inanimate objects. He utilizes this technique in order to take an opponent by surprise or sneak up on them.

this will e important as he can turn himself into mel or Esta putting them in a precarious situation

Summoning:

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Naruto has a contract with the toads of Mount Myokubou, allowing him to summon various ginormous toads that are very adept at combat. They all have their own techniques and unique qualities that make them very useful for battles and add to Naruto's overall versatility. However, when their chakra runs out, they are reverse summoned and disappear from the battlefield completely. Naruto can, however, summon a different toad when that toad's chakra runs out.

Substitution:

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Naruto can use a technique that basically switches his body with a nearby object for misdirection. The wiki explains it better than me so:

With this technique, users replace their own body with some other object, generally with a block of wood, the moment an attack lands. This creates an optical illusion, making the enemy think the attack was successful. From this, the user can use the lapse in the enemy's attention to attack or flee from the battlefield. Explosive tagscan be attached to the replacement for an added surprise. It's a basic ninjutsu even taught at the Academy, but it's a useful art that can be applied in variety of situations, as it allows for a swift getaway from danger. The technique even allows a restrained shinobi to escape capture.[2]

Rasengan:

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Naruto's signature move, the rasengan. Rasengan is to Naruto what Kamehameha is to Goku or Thunderclap is to Hulk. He has many different variations that vary in power from a building level technique to mountain range level all the way to a rasengan combination that can ravage the planet with its detonation.

It can be used to produce all different types of force/damage.

force:

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Cutting/Piercing (on a cellular level):

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Tailed Beast Ball (Bijuudama):

These are some of Naruto's most powerful attacks. These are attacks that disintegrate on detonation. Weaker ones can easily vaporize mountains:

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Naruto can casually match six mountain busting bijuudama with just one of his own:

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Piercing/Cutting durability:

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Healing Factor:

Naruto healing from attacks mid battle that damaged organs (a lung by the looks of it):

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Strength while in Tailed Beast Mode

Knocks 5 other Tailed Beasts back:

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After Rokubi(5 Tails) bit his arm, Naruto hurls him across his body into Matatabi(2 Tails):

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He creates huge explosions that are bigger than mountains while clashing with Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo:

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Pain Tolerance

Allows Roshi, the Four Tails Jinchuriki, to hit him even though he's covered in lava/molten rock, and still has the strength to use a Rasengan on him:

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Takes a kick to the face from Han(5 Tails' Jinchuriki) with almost no damage:

That should be enough on naruto for now.

Conclusion

  • My team wins due
  • My team wins due to the ability to adapt to Full Counter and generally better hax
  • My team wins due to having greater numbers via mass cloning and summoning

while i cant give a full strategy i can say the things i see coming up in the next post

  • matchups
  • full counter versus TBB
  • my clones vs your clones
  • how quickly esta goes down
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#23 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8621 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters 1: Meliodas and Estarossa

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Speed

Dodged an attack that moves at the speed of sound and blitzes his opponent:

Good stuff, there's not really much to say here, it's a good feat that puts BoS Sasuke at Supersonic speeds.

However, I really would like to note that a feat like that won't be enough to suggest Sasuke can keep up with Meliodas, as the latter has managed to replicate this same feat casually in his BoS incarnation, despite not going all-out, as he was holding back as not to kill Gilthunder and wasn't using his demon mark.

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Outspeeds Gaara's sand which auto protects him:

Ok, but I'd like to comment that Gaara's sand really wasn't that impressive speed wise, back in the day. It had great difficulties in keeping up with Supersonic movement, as showcased when Gaara fought Lee, who managed to breach Gaara's sand defences even before using the Eight Inner Gates.

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And honestly, Lee really has no feats suggesting he's anything beyond low-end Supersonic at this point in the series and Gaara's sand was clearly even slower, so Gaara's sand being even Mach 1 in speeds is a generous estimate. This feat is really nothing, even BoS Meliodas could replicate this, without even using his demon mark.

Reacts to KN0 Naruto who was previously blitzing him:

Cool stuff, but this was clearly shown to be due to him evolving his Sharingan from 2 to 3-tomoe, which amped his pre-cog to a level where he could keep up, as is clearly shown in this scan.

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It's really not applicable to this fight whatsoever, unless you're suggesting Sasuke will evolve his Sharingan mid-fight, which is utter nonsense to say the least.

this is key as it shows his ability to adapt to his opponent

Except it really doesn't, as all Sasuke did to "adapt" in that fight was evolve his Sharingan to the next level because of emotional reasons, which won't work in this fight for 2 reasons:

  • Sasuke has no emotional attachments to Meliodas or Estarossa, thus such an evolution couldn't even occur
  • Sasuke's Sharingan has already reached the final state, the EMS and nothing suggests he can go beyond that

So, yeah. If you want to show Sasuke's adaptability, you'll have to look for better examples than that.

During the time skip Sasuke's speed increases dramatically:

True, though you'll find it hard to make it quantifiable just how much that increase is.

Here he reached Naruto while a chunin and two ANBU shinobi were present:

That might be impressive, except neither Post-Timeskip Base Naruto, nor Sai, nor Yamato have any feats to make this feat impressive or quantify it in anyway, unless you wanna do some wonky scaling from the fact that BoS Sasuke was around Mach 1 speeds, which wouldn't really work anyway.

Really, you're going to have to give me some context as to why these feats are even remotely impressive, else we're not going to get anywhere with this.

Surprised Deidara with his speed forcing him to fight defensively:

I hate to repeat myself, but what speed feats does Deidara have that even put him at supersonic speeds, to make this feat even remotely impressive. Really, you need to start giving me some context here.

Reacted to the Raikage

Goddamnit thenewguys..... Give me feats as to why this is impressive, or it means absolutely nothing.

And before you try to pull that Raikage lightning speed thing out of your ass, I'd like feats that put the Raikage at anywhere near those speeds and no, some wonky datebook statement about Kakashi splitting lightning that doesn't mention the context, the speed/nature of the lightning isn't gonna cut, especially 'cause that's hella inconsistent with the verse. ooof, sorry for that rant, I wanted to get it over with quickly, so I don't have to bring that up later in the debate.

I would go in dept on speed but as you yourself has stated no one is getting blitzed so yeah thats that

Nice try, but with the speed feats you're giving me right now, Mel is blitzing the shit out of your team.

Now, for some scans and with context!

Here Meliodas reacts to and full counters a lightning bolt from thundercloads created by Gilthunder, all the way back during Chapter 6 of the manga.

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Now, before you say that Gilthunders lightning somehow isn't the same speed as natural lightning, it was repeatedly stated to be a "thunderbolt, or "lightning" by multiple people and it literally comes from Thundercloads as well, as can be seen in the scan. It has great speed feats too, such as coming down from the Clouds(hundreds-thousands of meters) in the same time it took Gilthunder(easily supersonic) to swing his sword 1-2 meters(also in the scan), which, once again, would place it at around the same speed as natural lightning.

Lightning moves Mach 286, from the Clouds to the Ground, so that's Mel's minimum reaction/combat speed as of BoS and current Mel is way faster, meaning we can safely say current Meliodas operates at Mach 300+ speeds. Estarossa also operates at these speeds, as his physical stat, which represents all physical abilities such as speed, power etc, is 53,000,which is so massively above BoS Mel's 960 that we can safely conclude he too can move at Mach 300+ speeds.

To translate, this means my team would blitz your team to hell and back, at least based on the lacklustre feats you've presented me with thus far, that barely put Sasuke and Nardo at even hypersonic speeds. You'll have to do better @thenewguysnm1.

Durability and Sharingan stuff

In his Base he has withstood things like:

Explosions:

Come on man....

We get to see the incredible power of Deidara's explosions in the first scan you presented:

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Oh, look, it's smaller than a bloody tree. If this is all Sasuke has interns of durability, he's really screwed, as even BoS Meliodas with his puny strength level of 960, along with Ban's even punier 930 can bust a whole, Town sized Dungeon that was enhanced by a protective spell, with the mere after effect of their arm-wrestling and they are literally dozens of times weaker than Estarossa and current Meliodas.

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This puts Meliodas and Estarossa's strength at casual Town level, which, based on the ridiculously unimpressive and shitty scans you're presenting me with, would be enough to casually one-shot here.

Punches and Kicks from Jinchuriki

Strength feats for Killer Bee in his base form that make this impressive?

Hint: It's not, as no base form Ninja in Naruto bar post-SO6P characters have even Building level striking feats, do they?

This feat doesn't even prove that Sasuke and Nardo can even take a single slash/punch from either of the 2 brothers, in fact it proves the Contrary, as Sasuke is temporarily incapacitated by a regular slash from Killer Bee, who *gasp*, happens to have no strength/slashing feats that put that nameless attack at even Building level in slashing power and it left Sauce considerably wounded.

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Mate, you need to step up your game quick, because right now it just looks like Sauce and Nardo get blitzed and one-shot into oblivion with one attack from either of the Demons.

Naruto (KNO)

Impressive, this is the same KN0 that utterly failed to damage hardened bone and was god stomped by Kimimaro, who has no striking or durability feats in his base form that are even remotely impressive, right?

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Oh, yes it seems like it is that KN0....

Try again, you're going to have to show me something impressive here, that suggests Estarossa's and Mel's casual Town+ level attacks won't one-shot here...

With Susanoo his durability is further amped:

Looks like you forget the scans?

Anyway, I'm still going to elaborate on why even Sasuke's Susanoo defences won't be enough in this fight. Without Rinnegan feats to draw from, Sasuke's defensive feats with Susanoo are rather lacking and rely on questionable scaling, which puts them around Mountain level at best. This won't be enough to protect him from more than a few of my teams blows, as both Estarossa and Meliodas have casually Mountain level striking/cutting power, as demonstrated when Estarossa manages to damage Esacnor and send him flying with just a few punches, which would obviously be weaker than when he's using a sword, especially considering SDS lore.

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The reason this is extremely impressive is because this same Escanor was previously not even moved or damaged by Galans Critical Over slash, which created a huge shockwave that cut 2 hills from literally miles away, as well as this Galan being a stronger version of the one that sliced a large hillside in half with the shockwave of his blade.

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Basically, Estarossa did more damage with a punch than Galan did with a slice, despite Galans slices being Mountain level in scale.

Meliodas also has a feat that's extremely similar to Estarossa's, as he also sent Escanor flying and incapacitated him with his bare fists, except that this Version of Escanors powerlevel was 114,000, compared to his power level of 50,600 when fighting Galan, making this feat even more impressive.

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To sum it up, I've proved Meliodas and Estarossa's striking/slicing power is at Mountain+ level, whilst you've failed to prove Sasuke has enough durability to take even a single, casual attack from either of them.

Enton:

Sasuke is capable of shaping the flames into what he sees fit for battle purposes:

Basically if you're in his sight and lack speed faster than he can see you're getting burned.

This is cool and all, but Enton hasn't shown the feats to suggest it can burn Estarossa or meliodas, who have both taken heat attacks that have far more impressive feats, such as Escanors Cruel Sun.

Here Estarossa tanks and later casually regenerates from Escanors Cruel Sun, which had enough heat to completely vaporise a lake, which, heat wise, is far beyond anything Amaterasu has ever shown.

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Additionally, Escanors heat has already done other crazy things such as completely melt a castle when he was faaaar weaker, which makes this feat even more impressive.

Meliodas has also tanked Escanors Cruel Sun, except this Escanors attack was far stronger due to his greater power level and he fact that it had been reflected by Mel's own Full Counter. It then exploded inside of a Perfect Cube, but Meliodas took literally no damage despite the ridiculous power and heat of the explosion.

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Susanoo:

Susanoo is a chakra cloak that greatly amplifies Sasuke's durability and strength.

True, but it hasn't shown any feats to suggest it can take the continuous Mountain level attacks Meliodas and Estarossa will be dishing out.

Throughout the series it undergoes a few changes from incomplete to perfect.

Hold up, hold up. Prior to gaining the Rinnegan, Sasuke has no feats of using Perfect Susanoo, so that's out of the question.

It is capable of crushing individuals,

Unimpressive, that's not enough to even tickle Esta or Mel.

tanking numerous attacks (see durability scans),

You forgot the scans, I'm afraid.

and firing high speed arrows all are mountain level or above..

I'll need proof of those Arrows being even Town level, let alone Mountain level. Not that it matters, as they just get reflected by Mel's Full Counter anyway. Before you say, the arrow is physical, it originates from a jutsu, which is more than enough to suggest Meliodas can reflect it, as he has already done so to multiple physical attacks that originate from magic, as shown here.

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Mastery over Eternal Magekyou Sharingan:

Same as above however the chakra drain is servely decreased.

Cool stuff, it still won't work though, as I've proven above.

Susanoo:

Sasuke has more control over Susanoo and can further develop it.

That's cool, but I'd like some feats for that Susanoo that put it anywhere near these Mountain levels you're wanking it to.

Here he manages to add legs to his susanoo and even perfect it

That's complete body Susanoo, not Perfect. There's a significant difference in there capabilities.

Artistry of the fire and lighting style

I don't see how this is even relevant, all of it will be reflected by Full Counter, which, as I have shown above can reflect these kinds of attacks with ease.

Naruto's Ninja Tricks

Shadow Clones:

This is the very first useful technique that Naruto learns. It is actually a forbidden technique created by the 2nd Hokage. This is one of Naruto's go to techniques and he is able to casually spam thousands.

Yes, however you must consider that his Chakra is divided between all of them and making and maintaining thousands of clones will drain it extremely quickly.

Each of his clones evenly divides up his chakra and are able to function independently.

True, however, as you yourself have said, he divides his chakra/power between them, meaning it costs him a lot of stamina to maintain that many clones.

However, a common misconception is that his clones have fodder level durability and while that may have been true once upon a time, that is no longer the case.

Eh, it's rather inconsistent. Naruto has shown the ability to make 3-4 clones that are literally almost equals to the original in every single way, however, you can't prove that they're durability remains that high once he ramps it up to thousands, as that would take a loot of chakra to maintain.

now the clones are exact copies of naruto so all in all my clones are stronger and better than yours in every way including sherr size

Except, you haven't provided any scans for either Naruto nor Sauce's durability that puts them at anywhere near Mel's or Estarossa's power, so an AOE attack would still vanquish all of Naruto's clones with ease. Oh and also, both Meliodas and Estarossa can fly, meaning they can just stay out of the way of Nardo's clones and bombard them from the sky, which they can do nothing about.

Especially Meliodas has some really good AOE attacks up his sleeve that can easily destroy kilometres of space at once and can be used to one-shot all of Naruto's clones, such as the pilar of darkness he used to destroy Gelda, a royal vampire.

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This hole was later revealed to be a whooping 30,000 feet deep, which is a good few hundred meters deeper than Mount Everest is high, putting Mel's darkness at casual Mountain level in DC and AOE, meaning it will be one-shotting all of those thousands of clones.

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So, yeah, clones won't be of much use here.

Transformation(technique):

He is able to transform either himself of his clones into carbon copies of another person or inanimate objects. He utilizes this technique in order to take an opponent by surprise or sneak up on them.

I mean, while this is cool and all, Mel and Esta aren't going to get caught off guard that easily, especially Meliodas, who is literally always on guard and prepared, as stated and demonstrated by Estarossa himself.

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this will e important as he can turn himself into mel or Esta putting them in a precarious situation

Has Naruto ever turned into his opponent/opponents in-character, in a battle before? Can Naruto even do that? IIRC, he was pretty trash at the transformation technique and never actually transformed into his opponent mid-battle, so why would he do so in this fight? My point being, it's hardly in-character for him and even if he did do it, Meliodas and Estarossa would quickly realise it anyway due to Naruto's radically different personality and fighting style.

Summoning:

Naruto has a contract with the toads of Mount Myokubou, allowing him to summon various ginormous toads that are very adept at combat.

Cool, but the Toads are complete fodder if we're being honest.

They all have their own techniques and unique qualities that make them very useful for battles and add to Naruto's overall versatility. However, when their chakra runs out, they are reverse summoned and disappear from the battlefield completely. Naruto can, however, summon a different toad when that toad's chakra runs out.

Let me just say to you right away: Naruto's Toads won't be of any help in this battle, whatsoever. They're complete fodder that were casually one-shot by one basic Shinra Tensei from Pain, which doesnt even operate at Town level unless fully charged, while both Meliodas and Estarossa casually dish out Town level attacks and operate at Mountain levels when fully serious.

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The Toads won't be acting as anything more than a distraction in this battle and even that for no more than a few seconds, due to Estarossa and Mel's massive speed.

Substitution:

Naruto can use a technique that basically switches his body with a nearby object for misdirection. The wiki explains it better than me so:

With this technique, users replace their own body with some other object, generally with a block of wood, the moment an attack lands. This creates an optical illusion, making the enemy think the attack was successful. From this, the user can use the lapse in the enemy's attention to attack or flee from the battlefield. Explosive tagscan be attached to the replacement for an added surprise. It's a basic ninjutsu even taught at the Academy, but it's a useful art that can be applied in variety of situations, as it allows for a swift getaway from danger. The technique even allows a restrained shinobi to escape capture.[2]

This technique is clearly stated to require a distraction or a lapse in the enemy's attention, neither of which will happen here. Besides, what is Naruto going to substitute with, just look at the location of this battle:

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This jutsu is completely useless in this scenario, sorry.

Rasengan:

Naruto's signature move, the rasengan. Rasengan is to Naruto what Kamehameha is to Goku or Thunderclap is to Hulk. He has many different variations that vary in power from a building level technique

I'll agree on Building level.

to mountain range level

The only Naruto that has a Mountain range level Rasengan variation is the SO6P/The Last one, which isn't relevant to this discussion at all, sorry.

all the way to a rasengan combination that can ravage the planet with its detonation.

This literally doesn't exist.

It can be used to produce all different types of force/damage.

force:

Cutting/Piercing (on a cellular level):

You know what, I want destructive feats that suggest a Rasengan variant can get past Meliodas and Estarossa's durability, which I've already proved is Mountain+ level in my opener and I will do so again in this post.

Here Meliodas tanks a Giga Fall from Dolor with little to no damage. This attack was so powerful it could be felt from Liones, which was 100+ miles away from where the fight was taking place.

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This is undeniably Mountain level durability, now I want feats from a Rasengan that even remotely compare to that.

Not that it matters, as Meliodas can still just Full Counter the Rasengans right back at Naruto.

Bijuudama:

These are some of Naruto's most powerful attacks. These are attacks that disintegrate on detonation. Weaker ones can easily vaporize mountains:

Naruto can casually match six mountain busting bijuudama with just one of his own:

This is all true and I'd go as far as to say that Bijuudamas are Naruto's strongest attack prior to his SO6P upgrade. However, in this battle they really won't suffice as Meliodas will simply Full Counter them right back. And yes, his Full Counter can reflect attacks made of pure energy, as shown when he fought Monspiet and Derriere and reflected the formers strongest magic attack back at him.

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Even if Naruto somehow managed to hit Meliodas or Estarossa with a Tailed Beast Bomb, which he won't, as they have several methods of getting around being hit by one, such as

  • dodging with their massively above lightning speeds
  • reflecting it with Full Counter
  • interrupting Naruto while he's trying to prepare/fire one

, they can still tank it as both of them have the Multi-Mountain level energy durability that's required to tank such an explosion, as shown when a weaker version of Meliodas, who had a physical level of 50,000, which is both weaker than his current version and Estarossa's 53,000 tanked Gloxinia's 1st form Spirit Spear with little to no damage, despite it literally dwarfing a Mountain with it's explosion.

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Estarossa also tanked the attack when Gloxinia used it on Meliodas with all of the 10 Commandments in the direct vicinity later on as well.

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So, TBB, the only viable way Naruto and Sasuke can damage Estarossa and Meliodas, will be completely ineffective.

Naruto's Strength and Durability

Piercing/Cutting durability:

Mate, I don't know how to explain this to you, but tanking one sword attack from nameless fodder doesn't mean he's surviving even a single hit from characters that can destroy MOUNTAINS with their sword swing. In other words, this scan means nothing and is completely irrelevant.

Healing Factor:

Naruto healing from attacks mid battle that damaged organs (a lung by the looks of it):

While this is a cool display of regeneration, it's hardly applicable here, as Naruto has never shown the ability to accesss his one-tailed form at will and has no feats to suggest he's capable of regeneration in his regular Bijuu Mode, thus making this scan completely useless. Naruto hasn't shown any regenerative feats in KCM/BM, only in his uncontrolled tailed forms and in his SO6P state, both of which aren't remotely applicable to this fight.

Strength while in Tailed Beast Mode

Knocks 5 other Tailed Beasts back:

After Rokubi(5 Tails) bit his arm, Naruto hurls him across his body into Matatabi(2 Tails):

Don't know how to break it to you mate, but these strength feats aren't even remotely impressive compared to what Estarossa and Meliodas are capable of. The Tailed Beasts themselves aren't anything above Large Building level in size in this form, as seen in one of your scans, when you can see there size compared to Kakashi and Guy.

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A strength feat on this scale isn't going to cut it.

He creates huge explosions that are bigger than mountains while clashing with Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo:

In case you hadn't notice, that's S06P Naruto, who's not in this battle, as Naruto has all feats prior to SO6P, not after so I'll just ignore this.

Pain Tolerance

Allows Roshi, the Four Tails Jinchuriki, to hit him even though he's covered in lava/molten rock, and still has the strength to use a Rasengan on him:

That's cool, but it's really not enough to suggest he'll be able to continue fighting after taking a slash across f.x: the chest, or after losing an arm to a slashing attack from Estarossa or Meliodas. It also doesn't remotely compare to either Estarossa's or Mel's pain tolerance. Mel has tanked attacks from all of the 10 Commandments, that caused so much damage that he had burn marks/bruises all over his body, had broken one arm and had the other cut off. Despite all of that, he could still fight and initiate an attack.

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That is impressive pain tolerance, not taking a bit of a burn and still being able to fight....

All-in-all, Meliodas and Estarossa ae far superior to Naruto and Sasuke, at least from the scans you've showed me thus far. Really, if you don't step up your game, this will be a landslide victory for me.

Conclusion

My team wins due

My team wins due to the ability to adapt to Full Counter

You haven't shown any scans that suggest they have the ability to do this and thus they can't.

and generally better hax

How, exactly? Clones are useless, they'll get destroyed by one mass AOE attack from my team, Amaterasu isn't doing anything and pre-cog won't help against my teams superior speed. My teams Full Counters and regeneration are much more useful in comparison.

My team wins due to having greater numbers via mass cloning and summoning

All of them get one-shot by one AOE darkness attack, unless you can show Mountain level durability feats for Summons and Clones?

while i cant give a full strategy i can say the things i see coming up in the next post

matchups

Not necessary, my team will be fighting as a team to Full Counter everything your team uses right back at them.

full counter versus TBB

There's nothing to debate there, TBB gets sent right back at greater than twice the strength, as it is an energy attack... Unless you want to argue NLF, which is pretty silly as Meliodas Full Counter has never been power dependent and has always worked and has even been stated as requiring minimal energy as all it does is redirect and enhance attacks of others.

my clones vs your clones

Your clones are fodder, they aren't even remotely relevant in this situation.

how quickly esta goes down

Based on the scans you've shown thus far he has more chances of soloing than going down here....

  • My team wins due to massively superior physicals
  • my team wins due to your team having no counter(lel) to Full Counter
  • My team wins due to greater pain tolerance and stamina(regeneration for the win)

It's your turn once again @thenewguysnm1

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#27 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

time to get serious

gimme a few days

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#28 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters 1: Naruto and Sasuke

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Speed

Goddamnit thenewguys..... Give me feats as to why this is impressive, or it means absolutely nothing.

And before you try to pull that Raikage lightning speed thing out of your ass, I'd like feats that put the Raikage at anywhere near those speeds and no, some wonky datebook statement about Kakashi splitting lightning that doesn't mention the context, the speed/nature of the lightning isn't gonna cut, especially 'cause that's hella inconsistent with the verse. ooof, sorry for that rant, I wanted to get it over with quickly, so I don't have to bring that up later in the debate.

its funny how your calling it a wonky databook statement when its literally backed up by the characters and and the author also in case you didnt know your opinion<<kishimotos word

also i have a statement from someone who has fought with AY for years when they say hes like a flash of light.

though i wont call him light speed and will just leave it as massively faster than lighting

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also its funny how your talking about my feats but a large part of your plan is around a outlier feat by meliodias you yourself stated bos is only supersonic so you pretty much disproved your own point

also pleas bare in mind this is a far weaker sauske

Nice try, but with the speed feats you're giving me right now, Mel is blitzing the shit out of your team.

already countered this i also will counter more later on

Now, before you say that Gilthunders lightning somehow isn't the same speed as natural lightning, it was repeatedly stated to be a "thunderbolt, or "lightning" by multiple people and it literally comes from Thundercloads as well, as can be seen in the scan. It has great speed feats too, such as coming down from the Clouds(hundreds-thousands of meters) in the same time it took Gilthunder(easily supersonic) to swing his sword 1-2 meters(also in the scan), which, once again, would place it at around the same speed as natural lightning.

so now you want to listen to statements typical HTA

was a time frame given

Lightning moves Mach 286, from the Clouds to the Ground, so that's Mel's minimum reaction/combat speed as of BoS and current Mel is way faster, meaning we can safely say current Meliodas operates at Mach 300+ speeds. Estarossa also operates at these speeds, as his physical stat, which represents all physical abilities such as speed, power etc, is 53,000,which is so massively above BoS Mel's 960 that we can safely conclude he too can move at Mach 300+ speeds.

so now reaction = combat speed also obvious outlier is obvious

To translate, this means my team would blitz your team to hell and back, at least based on the lacklustre feats you've presented me with thus far, that barely put Sasuke and Nardo at even hypersonic speeds. You'll have to do better @thenewguysnm1.

to conclude your team is definitely not blitzing like at all unless you can show me either

  1. more feats that put them above my team
  2. or more context and proof validating your proof

Durability and Sharingan stuff

This feat doesn't even prove that Sasuke and Nardo can even take a single slash/punch from either of the 2 brothers, in fact it proves the Contrary, as Sasuke is temporarily incapacitated by a regular slash from Killer Bee, who *gasp*, happens to have no strength/slashing feats that put that nameless attack at even Building level in slashing power and it left Sauce considerably wounded.

well then its a good thing we have sussanoo for added durability and also the fact that your team will never land a punch as we have greater numbers as per naruto creating 1000 clones and summons who have potential one shot moves

tbh even if you could land clones and replacement jutsu would bamboozle you really bad

Mate, you need to step up your game quick, because right now it just looks like Sauce and Nardo get blitzed and one-shot into oblivion with one attack from either of the Demons.

cheeky

Anyway, I'm still going to elaborate on why even Sasuke's Susanoo defences won't be enough in this fight. Without Rinnegan feats to draw from, Sasuke's defensive feats with Susanoo are rather lacking and rely on questionable scaling, which puts them around Mountain level at best. This won't be enough to protect him from more than a few of my teams blows, as both Estarossa and Meliodas have casually Mountain level striking/cutting power, as demonstrated when Estarossa manages to damage Esacnor and send him flying with just a few punches, which would obviously be weaker than when he's using a sword, especially considering SDS lore.

tbh honest a few blows is all we have to tank as this fight will not last long which i will elaborate on later

also an amped sasuke is much much stronger especially if he fusses with narutos kyubi state

also what feats do estarpssa have that put him at this level

The reason this is extremely impressive is because this same Escanor was previously not even moved or damaged by Galans Critical Over slash, which created a huge shockwave that cut 2 hills from literally miles away, as well as this Galan being a stronger version of the one that sliced a large hillside in half with the shockwave of his blade.

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Basically, Estarossa did more damage with a punch than Galan did with a slice, despite Galans slices being Mountain level in scale.

Meliodas also has a feat that's extremely similar to Estarossa's, as he also sent Escanor flying and incapacitated him with his bare fists, except that this Version of Escanors powerlevel was 114,000, compared to his power level of 50,600 when fighting Galan, making this feat even more impressive.

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To sum it up, I've proved Meliodas and Estarossa's striking/slicing power is at Mountain+ level, whilst you've failed to prove Sasuke has enough durability to take even a single, casual attack from either of them.

Enton:

Sasuke is capable of shaping the flames into what he sees fit for battle purposes:

Basically if you're in his sight and lack speed faster than he can see you're getting burned.

This is cool and all, but Enton hasn't shown the feats to suggest it can burn Estarossa or meliodas, who have both taken heat attacks that have far more impressive feats, such as Escanors Cruel Sun.

Here Estarossa tanks and later casually regenerates from Escanors Cruel Sun, which had enough heat to completely vaporise a lake, which, heat wise, is far beyond anything Amaterasu has ever shown.

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Additionally, Escanors heat has already done other crazy things such as completely melt a castle when he was faaaar weaker, which makes this feat even more impressive.

Meliodas has also tanked Escanors Cruel Sun, except this Escanors attack was far stronger due to his greater power level and he fact that it had been reflected by Mel's own Full Counter. It then exploded inside of a Perfect Cube, but Meliodas took literally no damage despite the ridiculous power and heat of the explosion.

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Susanoo:

Susanoo is a chakra cloak that greatly amplifies Sasuke's durability and strength.

True, but it hasn't shown any feats to suggest it can take the continuous Mountain level attacks Meliodas and Estarossa will be dishing out.

Throughout the series it undergoes a few changes from incomplete to perfect.

Hold up, hold up. Prior to gaining the Rinnegan, Sasuke has no feats of using Perfect Susanoo, so that's out of the question.

It is capable of crushing individuals,

Unimpressive, that's not enough to even tickle Esta or Mel.

tanking numerous attacks (see durability scans),

You forgot the scans, I'm afraid.

and firing high speed arrows all are mountain level or above..

I'll need proof of those Arrows being even Town level, let alone Mountain level. Not that it matters, as they just get reflected by Mel's Full Counter anyway. Before you say, the arrow is physical, it originates from a jutsu, which is more than enough to suggest Meliodas can reflect it, as he has already done so to multiple physical attacks that originate from magic, as shown here.

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Mastery over Eternal Magekyou Sharingan:

Same as above however the chakra drain is servely decreased.

Cool stuff, it still won't work though, as I've proven above.

Susanoo:

Sasuke has more control over Susanoo and can further develop it.

That's cool, but I'd like some feats for that Susanoo that put it anywhere near these Mountain levels you're wanking it to.

Here he manages to add legs to his susanoo and even perfect it

That's complete body Susanoo, not Perfect. There's a significant difference in there capabilities.

Artistry of the fire and lighting style

I don't see how this is even relevant, all of it will be reflected by Full Counter, which, as I have shown above can reflect these kinds of attacks with ease.

well it is useful as it will tell give my team an idea of your team abilities

Naruto's Ninja Tricks

Shadow Clones:

Yes, however you must consider that his Chakra is divided between all of them and making and maintaining thousands of clones will drain it extremely quickly.

this is wrong he has never had a problem maintaing thosaunds of clones

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True, however, as you yourself have said, he divides his chakra/power between them, meaning it costs him a lot of stamina to maintain that many clones.

well this was more of an obstacle as a child but as he gets older they become copies instead of portions of his power a great example of this is when he made a dozen clones who then went on to make there own clones in kcm mode

what makes this more impressive is that each of these clones are greater than the third raikage who in turn is faster and stronger than his son the 4th raikage they are both above lightning speed

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Eh, it's rather inconsistent. Naruto has shown the ability to make 3-4 clones that are literally almost equals to the original in every single way, however, you can't prove that they're durability remains that high once he ramps it up to thousands, as that would take a loot of chakra to maintain.

he made 12 clones that made clones and they were all relative to the original though will give you that a 1000 would be easy to maintain as he could do it in base why would he not be able to do it when stronger

now the clones are exact copies of naruto so all in all my clones are stronger and better than yours in every way including sheer size

Except, you haven't provided any scans for either Naruto nor Sauce's durability that puts them at anywhere near Mel's or Estarossa's power, so an AOE attack would still vanquish all of Naruto's clones with ease. Oh and also, both Meliodas and Estarossa can fly, meaning they can just stay out of the way of Nardo's clones and bombard them from the sky, which they can do nothing about.

an aoe attack gets countered quickly or they substitute

Especially Meliodas has some really good AOE attacks up his sleeve that can easily destroy kilometres of space at once and can be used to one-shot all of Naruto's clones, such as the pilar of darkness he used to destroy Gelda, a royal vampire.

countered by tbb

This hole was later revealed to be a whooping 30,000 feet deep, which is a good few hundred meters deeper than Mount Everest is high, putting Mel's darkness at casual Mountain level in DC and AOE, meaning it will be one-shotting all of those thousands of clones.

see above

So, yeah, clones won't be of much use here.

yes they will especially CQC

Transformation(technique):

I mean, while this is cool and all, Mel and Esta aren't going to get caught off guard that easily, especially Meliodas, who is literally always on guard and prepared, as stated and demonstrated by Estarossa himself.

Remember we only need on opening to win

Has Naruto ever turned into his opponent/opponents in-character, in a battle before? Can Naruto even do that? IIRC, he was pretty trash at the transformation technique and never actually transformed into his opponent mid-battle, so why would he do so in this fight? My point being, it's hardly in-character for him and even if he did do it, Meliodas and Estarossa would quickly realise it anyway due to Naruto's radically different personality and fighting style.

it seems your memory is failing you as he did it against kiba in the chunin exams also its never effected him in the past by the time they realise whats going on there dead

Cool, but the Toads are complete fodder if we're being honest.

well they have some good mid to long range moves can use genjutsu and if the worse case scenario comes than they work as great meat shields they also can jump on you and hide naruto

Let me just say to you right away: Naruto's Toads won't be of any help in this battle, whatsoever. They're complete fodder that were casually one-shot by one basic Shinra Tensei from Pain, which doesnt even operate at Town level unless fully charged, while both Meliodas and Estarossa casually dish out Town level attacks and operate at Mountain levels when fully serious.

they have good speed and again can jump at you and collab with my fighters they will be useful

The Toads won't be acting as anything more than a distraction in this battle and even that for no more than a few seconds, due to Estarossa and Mel's massive speed.

already countered

Substitution:

This technique is clearly stated to require a distraction or a lapse in the enemy's attention, neither of which will happen here. Besides, what is Naruto going to substitute with, just look at the location of this battle:

loads of times logs have come out of nowhere so thats not really a good point he could swap with his kunai clones etc

This jutsu is completely useless in this scenario, sorry.

no its not bro

Rasengan:

I'll agree on Building level.

at BOS yes and only in dc not potency

The only Naruto that has a Mountain range level Rasengan variation is the SO6P/The Last one, which isn't relevant to this discussion at all, sorry.

this is just plain wrong it is literally stated as you can see below that jirayia rasengan is moutain level and unless you forgot bsm naruto>bm naruto>>kcm naruto>sm naruto>>sm jiraia who is mountain level

This literally doesn't exist.

you ever heard of hyperbole

You know what, I want destructive feats that suggest a Rasengan variant can get past Meliodas and Estarossa's durability, which I've already proved is Mountain+ level in my opener and I will do so again in this post.

ive already provided evidence and before you try to refute it kisimotos word>your bias opinion

tbh the current one is greater than your durability in potency considering a weaker one was at the low ends of mountain level

Here Meliodas tanks a Giga Fall from Dolor with little to no damage. This attack was so powerful it could be felt from Liones, which was 100+ miles away from where the fight was taking place.

is there an exact number given

This is undeniably Mountain level durability, now I want feats from a Rasengan that even remotely compare to that.

Not that it matters, as Meliodas can still just Full Counter the Rasengans right back at Naruto.

i already have proven that a rasengan is at least mountain level also how does esta counter it

This is all true and I'd go as far as to say that Bijuudamas are Naruto's strongest attack prior to his SO6P upgrade. However, in this battle they really won't suffice as Meliodas will simply Full Counter them right back. And yes, his Full Counter can reflect attacks made of pure energy, as shown when he fought Monspiet and Derriere and reflected the formers strongest magic attack back at him.

This is a very nice feat though i wouldnt say it is a feat that suggests he could fc a tbb as a tbb is much greater than this this

Even if Naruto somehow managed to hit Meliodas or Estarossa with a Tailed Beast Bomb, which he won't, as they have several methods of getting around being hit by one, such as

  • dodging with their massively above lightning speeds
  • reflecting it with Full Counter
  • interrupting Naruto while he's trying to prepare/fire one

what you said if you were to get hit by one you would have ways around it your way around it is not getting hit

, they can still tank it as both of them have the Multi-Mountain level energy durability that's required to tank such an explosion, as shown when a weaker version of Meliodas, who had a physical level of 50,000, which is both weaker than his current version and Estarossa's 53,000 tanked Gloxinia's 1st form Spirit Spear with little to no damage, despite it literally dwarfing a Mountain with it's explosion.

Oh nice though i would say a tbb is above that also add sasuke sussano with that and you guyd will get hurt

Estarossa also tanked the attack when Gloxinia used it on Meliodas with all of the 10 Commandments in the direct vicinity later on as well.

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So, TBB, the only viable way Naruto and Sasuke can damage Estarossa and Meliodas, will be completely ineffective.

counter to rasen shuriken or big ball rasengan or a genjutsu oh and of course amatarasu to the head we have manny ways to win

your Conclusion

You haven't shown any scans that suggest they have the ability to do this and thus they can't.

of course i dont have scans my team have never faced full counter thugh once the fireball is full countered my team with there analytical mind they will they will understand how your powers work and counter accordingly

and generally better hax

How, exactly? Clones are useless, they'll get destroyed by one mass AOE attack from my team, Amaterasu isn't doing anything and pre-cog won't help against my teams superior speed. My teams Full Counters and regeneration are much more useful in comparison.

your clones are fodder my clones are stronger and have greater numbers also how do we not have greater hax we have clones,summonings,precog,TP you have no counter to as well as a vast array of ninja techniques and better skill

matchups

Not necessary, my teamwill be fighting as a team to Full Counter everything your team uses right back at them.

thats great they also get hit by genjutsu as a team then killed thanks

full counter versus TBB

There's nothing to debate there, TBB gets sent right back at greater than twice the strength, as it is an energy attack... Unless you want to argue NLF, which is pretty silly as Meliodas Full Counter has never been power dependent and has always worked and has even been stated as requiring minimal energy as all it does is redirect and enhance attacks of others.

has it ever countered something as strong as a tbb if yes your fine if no your dead

my clones vs your clones

Your clones are fodder, they aren't even remotely relevant in this situation.

yet your pathetic clones are relevant behave my clones are stronger and we have more of them

how quickly esta goes down

Based on the scans you've shown thus far he has more chances of soloing than going down here....

how speed is relative and all we need to do is look at you and your done.

we wont kill you with genjutsu but one distraction is all we need to fire off a massive AOE attack

  • My team wins due to massively superior physicals
  • debatable
  • my team wins due to your team having no counter(lel) to Full Counter
  • how we just attack esta at a range or overpower your full counter
  • My team wins due to greater pain tolerance and stamina(regeneration for the win)
  • that great can you guys regen from dust or regen when your chopped into pieces

The moves that get us the win

genjutsu

now before i get into to this i have to thank uchiha54 and hulkage for the scans check out there Respect threads

With his sharingan he is able to cast illusions to the point where he can do this:

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He makes Sai (ANBU shinobi of Root) experience fear in a look. Why is that important? well root is an organization that raises children from a young age to feel no emotions while Sai clearly was experiencing fear he couldn't even recognize it due to his training in root.

Prevented Orochimaru from taking his body by stopping him with genjutsu:

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He even used it to control Manda a summon who hardly obeyed anyone and despised humans:

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Not on the level of his older brother's yet still resourceful.

Here he was able to subdue a kumogakure shinobi getting him to reveal the location of his ally:

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Here he uses it to stun a perfect Jinchuriki very briefly:

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Killer Bee got back up before Sasuke could recover from its usage.

now remember sasuke can tp guys with a good level of TP resistance so mel and esta cant withstand it the second they are under it is the second the did as we capitalise and blow them up

now while as stated in the op, we cant kill you with genjutsu but we can stun/distract you which will lead to your death anyay

as we will hit you with the attacks below(you can pick which one kills you)

  • amatarasu this burns your whole body and once it on you theirs nothing you can do
  • rasen shuriken it is at least mountain level and attacks on a cellular level i dont believe you team have durablity feats against an attack of this nature
  • rasengan pretty much same as above but on a smaller scale

Susanoo:

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  • Chidori (+Variants)
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tailed Beast Ball (Bijuudama):

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These are some of Naruto's most powerful attacks. These are attacks that disintegrate on detonation. Weaker ones can easily vaporize mountains:

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Naruto can casually match six mountain busting bijuudama with just one of his own:

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strategy

  1. we look at you you guys are stunned we then hit you with are strongest attack all of which kill or at least heavily inure you
  2. we spam clones and summons then spam are strongest attacks killing you
  3. we use are superior skill and speed to overwhelm you in close combat
  4. we start the fight with sussano and kurama avatar then hit you with are strongest attacks and combos
  5. naruto amps sauske with a 1 tail cloak which is a confirmed 3x amp then an amped sasuke and naruto outclass there simple and brass competitors we eventually end it with a kyubi sussano combo

any of these strats give us the wi n

why we win

  • we are undeniably smarter
  • we are faster or atleaest relative in speed
  • have a vast array of attacks
  • have attacks you have no counter to
  • will always have the numbers advantage
  • are overall a more polished and well versed team
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