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#1 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

In this battle I will be representing Bradley while my opponent, @col_kassad, will be representing Anderson.

Fuhrer King Bradley

The Deadly Sin of Wrath
The Deadly Sin of Wrath

Alexander Anderson

The Hand of God
The Hand of God

Rules

-We will both be using anime and manga feats for our reps

-Each character is in their usual mindsets

-Basic knowledge for both

-They start 15ft apart

-Win by death or K.O

Location

Rusukaina (One Piece)
Rusukaina (One Piece)

-This is a CaV, so we would appreciate you saving your thoughts until it is time to vote

-Do not vote on who you think would win, but on who had the better argument

-Other than that, thanks for reading!

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#2 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

What's the starting distance?

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#3 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Alright. I already edited it in, do you want to start?

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#6 Posted by LpnQ (3954 posts) - - Show Bio

Good luck to both!

Does anderson have nail/ and is Bradley composite? FMA+FMAB?

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#7 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@lpnq:Thanks, and to my understanding Bradley is FMAB only and Anderson does not have the nail.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

Nice matchup.

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#9 Posted by Darthjhawk (5342 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what to do...

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Good Luck to the both of you.

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#10 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Im gonna go ahead and post my opener if thats okay

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#12 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: Yeah by all means. I'm still collecting some feats

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#13 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

An Introduction to The Fuhrer of Amestris

Wrath the Furious
Wrath the Furious

Character Bio

The man who would one day become King Bradley was raised in secret in a government controlled environment alongside many other children. This project was designed to nurture the growth of the one who would someday become the ideal ruler of Amestris. Each of the children were taught basic subjects such as humanities and diplomacy, as well as world history. When they were old enough they were also taught swordsmanship, and were frequently forced to dueled each other to weed out the weak. Because of this Bradley held extreme skill with a sword, and quickly passed his fellow prospects as far as skill is concerned.

Bradley with the other candidates
Bradley with the other candidates

Finally, when their training and education was complete, it was revealed that each of the remaining prospects would have a philosophers stone introduced to their bodies. This stone held all of the Wrath of the one called "Father", an enigmatic being who would go on to be the prime antagonist of the series. After eleven failed attempts to create the embodiment of Father's wrath, Bradley was chosen, and after the stone had finished destroying and remaking his body countless times over, he was given his name and the title of Wrath the Furious.

Bradley emerging as
Bradley emerging as "Wrath"

Powers & Abilities

As the first human based Homunculus, Wrath had the ability to age normally as humans do and did not possess a healing factor, but that did not stop him from fully embracing the superhuman abilities of his Homunculi brethren. Wrath has super speed, fast enough to dodge close up rifle and machinegun fire, super strength, strong enough to kick grown men through thick concrete walls, and super agility and coordination, agile enough to survive a train explosion by hopping on the falling debris. All of these are well and good, but his best ability by far is his Ultimate Eye. With his eye he has slight precognition and the ability to discern the outcome of battles by predicting all possible courses of action.

Some Basic Feats....

Bradley has insane amounts of speed, as seen here when he is casually weaving through close range rifle fire:

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And here we see his strength and reaction speed when he cuts a tank shell out of the air:

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He does this all very casually, as he still had enough energy to fight many of the strongest characters at the same time without even getting injured.

All in all, Wrath is a very fast, very strong, and very skilled opponent for Alexander to overcome, and it'll be up to you to prove that he can.

That'll be it for my intro on Wrath, and I'll hold off on his best feats until I see your intro. Good luck!

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#14 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Alright then, my intro is up, im looking forward to seeing what you've got for me

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5ac4e862bd47b (3700 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#17 Posted by Elijah_C_Washington (4618 posts) - - Show Bio

kek
tag

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#18 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#19 Posted by Chronicplane (8821 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice matchup and Good luck on the CaV.

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#20 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V! love FMA:brotherhood!

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#23 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Lunacyde (28092 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Moderator
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#25 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Edited by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175:

*Cracks Knuckles*

Alexander Anderson (The Paladin)

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Bio

Anderson is a Vatican Priest and subsequently it's most powerful agent. The British Isles have been plagued with supernatural vampires which the Vatican will stop at nothing to purge. At odds with them is the Hellsing Organization which keeps Britain safe from rampaging vampires through technology, agents, and it's own pet vampires. Anderson fights the Hellsing Organization and his greatest foe (Alucard) for the Glory of God and the Vatican.

Abilities

Alexander Anderson operates far above normal human parameters. He is the Vaticans trump card to fight and defeat any supernatural threat. I think one of the most important attributes of his in this fight will be his speed. He's incredibly fast when it comes to combat and reflexes.

Take for example his first fight with Alucard. He's able to throw a number of bayonets fast enough to create sonic booms. What's most impressive is he was able to outspeed his own projectiles and blitz Alucard.

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Anderson has also blocked projectiles and fought easily with superhuman opponents (I'll get into this later) so he's easily able to compete with Bradley in speed. Honestly I'd argue his combat speed is better based on this feat alone as well as contending with Alucard.

I'll cover speed more in depth next post.

Regeneration

This will easily be Andersons trump card in this fight. Alexander Anderson is a regenerator on the tier of 616 sabertooth or above. He is able to heal from a myriad of wounds and injuries and continue attacking an opponent.

For example lets look at Hellsing #5. Anderson takes a headshot from Alucards 13mm pistol that fires explosive rounds. He drops and then heals and gets up in the next panel.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Again in Hellsing #5 Anderson tanks more explosive rounds (for better context they put fist sized holes in targets) and healed through them to continue the fight.

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I'm honestly seeing Bradley having a hard time putting down Anderson. He can easily heal through stab wounds or slashes. Bradley on the other hand isn't enjoying this type of advantage. FMA:B Wrath had speed, and skill, but really nothing else that will challenge Anderson. So basically Alex can heal from your attacks and keep going, any type of wounds Wrath sustains will slow him down and impede his chances of winning this fight.

Tools of Choice

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Along with his speed and regeneration Anderson's main weapon he uses is a bayonet. Well not one, more like an unfathomable amount. He uses them for ranged tosses, he's actually quite accurate with them, as well as blades to use in a melee fight. He loves to spam them in a fight whilst mixing it up i.e. blitzing an opponent alongside the blades.

Take for example Hellsing #4 he tosses ten bayonets at Sera to cripple her and take her out of the fight.

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So another advantage that Alexander Anderson has over Bradley is range. He can throw bayonets at him from a distance at supersonic speeds, bradley will have trouble dodging or deflecting them, or come in close with them. Bradley on the other hand has less options with which to deal with his opponent with.

That's my opener for now.

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#27 Edited by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to credit @juiceboks for these lovely gifs he's let me use.

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#28 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Nice post man. My rebuttal should be up in an hour or two

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#29 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter Arguments

Speed-

While Anderson's speed is impressive, I'd venture to say that Bradley can more than keep up with him. I say this because throughout each of the bullet-timing feats I presented in my intro, Bradley had his Ultimate Eye completely concealed. This means that, with it active, his reactions should be faster thanything Anderson could throw at him. The boost he gets from his eye is clear when he goes from a more or less even fight with Greedling to stomping all over him here:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Regeneration-

I dont believe Bradley will be thrown off by Anderson's regeneration as much as you think, as he has fought and defeated enemies with far better regeneration than he has shown.

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Here we see Bradley kill Greed, someone with regeneration far superior to Anderson's, 15 times in a row without even the slightest sign of fatigue. Another thing is that unless Anderson can regenerate entire limbs or from decapitation, he's going to be in trouble with Bradley. In a fight, Bradley will not play with Anderson, he will go for a killing blow immediately, which could cause major complications for the Priest.

Weapons-

Bradley uses two to six dueling swords, each of which is durable enough to not break while Bradley performs the following feat:

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Adding on to that, he has been training in swordsmanship for decades, and has enough skill and speed to overwhelm casual bulle-timers on the regular. Where range is concerned, I find Bradley getting in close to multiple people while they are firing on him to be more than enough to say that he can close the distance between Anderson and himself.

That'll be it for my first set of counters! Good luck!

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#30 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#33 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: *cracks knuckles again*

While Anderson's speed is impressive, I'd venture to say that Bradley can more than keep up with him. I say this because throughout each of the bullet-timing feats I presented in my intro, Bradley had his Ultimate Eye completely concealed. This means that, with it active, his reactions should be faster thanything Anderson could throw at him. The boost he gets from his eye is clear when he goes from a more or less even fight with Greedling to stomping all over him here:

I still haven't even gotten into the good speed feats for Alexander Anderson. I don't think you're keeping up with anything. While I don't think alex can straight up blitz Wrath, he still enjoys a noticeable speed edge here. For example in Hellsing #41 Anderson tosses his bayonets fast enough that nazi vampires can't even react to them.

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For better context these same vampires casually weave through automatic rifle fire when they're attacking the Hellsing Organization. These are highly trained gunmen as well. And the vampire dodges their bullets easily.

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Again Alex is much faster than these supersonic zombies. In Hellsing #43 Nazi vampires (you know the ones who weave through bullets) are unable to react to Alex and get blitzed before they realize.

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And to counter that bit about the ultimate eye. That's honestly an incredibly vague upgrade that Bradley "enjoys". Even when he reveals his ultimate eye he didn't kill Greeling. In fact he actually ended up getting blitzed by Greeling. Honestly he only killed Fu by blinding him with his own blood. Fu was able to contend and react with Bradley, someone noticeably slower than Alexander Anderson, so I don't see how this ultimate eye will do much tbh.

I dont believe Bradley will be thrown off by Anderson's regeneration as much as you think, as he has fought and defeated enemies with far better regeneration than he has shown.

It's not that he'll be "thrown off" it's that he'll be at a distinct disadvantage. Any slash or stab he sustains from bradley, honestly don't see many hits tagging him, he can heal quite quickly from. Bradley on the other hand will be in trouble once he takes a wound. Also I'd like to point out that Alex has much better healing than Greed showed. He got blasted in the head from an explosive 13mm round and was back up in the next panel. Greed on the other hand was down on the ground after having his arms cut off and several slash wounds. Healing from you're brain being blasted to bits > stab and slash wounds.

Another thing is that unless Anderson can regenerate entire limbs or from decapitation, he's going to be in trouble with Bradley. In a fight, Bradley will not play with Anderson, he will go for a killing blow immediately, which could cause major complications for the Priest.

He regenerated from having his head blown to bits like I showed before. He can regen just fine from any sort of sword wounds. And really he shouldn't have a noticeable amount of trouble with bradley. I've shown that Alex has and can blitz vampires that weave through rifle rounds (you know the same feats Bradley has shown). On top of this he's flat out sped past his bayonets which were fast enough to impale vampires that react to supersonic rounds pretty casually.

You're talking about a killing blow from Bradley taking out Alex. I'd like to point out another advantage that Anderson has over bradley, which is durability. When Anderson first met Alucard his 13mm explosive rounds could damage him and cause wounds. Later in the series we see this isn't the case as Anderson grows in strength. In Hellsing #62 Anderson takes several rounds from Alucards modified .454 and it doesn't do any noticeable damage to him.

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To give some context on this durability Alucards modified pistol can do this in Hellsing #

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His pistol is blowing fist sized+ holes in soldiers quite easily. Anderson previously was able to heal from these bullets easily, meaning stab and slash wounds from Bradley won't mean much, but on top of this he can flat out tank this damage later on. He's even shown himself to be flat out impervious to barrages of small arms fire if he doesn't feel like dodging them.

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So really I see Bradley having a hard time cutting him. Can he do damage? Sure he can, he's cut a tank shell in half but it won't be easy cutting through Anderson. When he does he can just heal through the damage. Bradley on the other hand can't heal. We've seen how debilitating taking wounds can get for Wrath. After he gets stabbed in the stomach and loses use of his ultimate eye Scar, you know the guy who has no bullet timing feats and is slower than Bradley? Yeah he actually gives him a good fight. I don't see how Alex, who is faster than Bradley, won't be able to hurt him. He can definitely tag Wrath by mixing it up and switching between ranged and close up attacks to keep his opponent off balance.

To sum up:

1. Alex is faster than Bradley with or without the Ultimate eye

  • He's thrown bayonets so fast that vampires who weave through rifle fire couldn't even react. More to the point he's out sped these same projectiles when fighting a foe who's done battle for hundreds of years (Alucard).

2. Alex will be able to heal any damage he sustains from Bradley. Wrath is at a severe disadvantage seeing as the longer the fight continues the less of a chance he'll have at winning. Any damage he takes will begin to take a toll on him.

  • We've seen his incredibly healing as he's healed from explosive rounds to the head and body quite easily.

3. He's more durable than Bradley. This means that Anderson enjoys the ability to harm Bradley with any slash or stab, on the other hand Wrath will have to work just to harm Anderson in any lasting way.

  • This point is reinforced by the feats of Alex flat out tanking explosive rounds as well as casually no selling barrages of small arms fire.

TL;DR Alexander Anderson is faster than Wrath, more durable, and has healing while Bradley does not. In essence Bradley can't blitz and oneshot, basically the only way he could win, and will be forced into a battle of attrition. This type of battle is heavily in Andersons favor considering he enjoys the perks of a healing factor as well as a speed advantage. Brads will be on the defensive at the start and will continue to be until Anderson cuts him to pieces.

@valor_175 Your turn.

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#34 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Nice post, your making me work for it. Mine will be up soon.

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#35 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters II

Contrary to what you have said, as soon as Bradley uncovered his Ultimate Eye he began blitzing Greed, someone who can also weave through machinegun fire. Never at any point did Greed get the upper hand on Bradley, and him keeping up at all is just a testament to his own speed. Also, when Fu fought Bradley he was using a weapon he was comfortable with, while Bradley was not. He even made mention of this, saying that his performance would be lowered due to being unfamiliar with the weapons he had on hand. He also commented that Fu was nearly as fast as he was, so him holding his own against a disadvantaged Bradley really doesn't help your argument.

Greed has regenerated from having his head completely knocked off of his shoulders within 2 or 3 seconds, and the only reason he was on the ground was because Wrath had hit him in his weak points, along with having killed him 15 times in a row.

Its in character for Bradley to go for the kill immediately if his opponent is not in some way important, and unless you have scans of Anderson regenerating from complete decapitation then he's going to be fodderized as soon as Bradley gets close. Speaking of which, you have also yet to prove that Anderson has the skill needed to hang with Bradley in close combat.

I think you might be lowballing Wrath's injuries at the time he fought Scar. He had been impaled through the stomach, stabbed in the eye, and shot in the shoulder by a rifle. After all of that he still manages to fight Scar, and would have won too if not for one of the most PIS moments in manga history.

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Here we see Scar dodge dozens of close range rounds from the best marksman in the series, and having trained and fought every day from the beginning of Brotherhood to the end, Scar was easily as fast if not faster than the Vampires Anderson blitzed when he fought a half blind, bleeding out Wrath and he still almost lost.

Therefore, a healthy Bradley with his Ultimate Eye intact is most definitely not going to be overwhelmed by Anderson's speed. What makes Wrath even more impressive is that when he cut that tank shell in half he was running towards it, and he had his Ultimate Eye covered. With speed like that Anderson is going to be hard pressed to outmaneuver Bradley especially considering the obvious skill difference between them.

Due to him being able to cut a tank shell in half, he should be able to cut through Anderson without to much trouble, as none of the durability feats you've presented trump that slicing feat. Also, having fought against and blitzed people with speed on par with or better than the Vampires that Anderson blitzed, they should be close in speed, but undeniably Wrath has a solid skill advantage, and as soon as he gets close, he'll dismember Anderson faster than he'll be able to regenerate.

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Here we see Bradley with only 1 of his normal 6 swords, and as referenced by Mustang, he was confident that he could take on Ed, Al, and Roy by himself. All of which are also casual bullet-timers, especially Ed, as he was able to blitz Scar while playing around in the ice town. This shows that Wrath has the skill to outmaneuver Roy's explosions, along with Ed and Al at close range, so unless you can prove that Anderson has skill on this level, disregarding speed, he's not tagging Wrath.

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Here we see Wrath casually slice through Buccaneer's reinforced steel automail like butter, this along with the tank shell feat should be enough to prove that Anderson's durability will not be enough to protect him from Wrath's blade. For the feat of Anderson being impervious to bullets, I'd like to point out the difference between piercing damage and slicing damage, as Wrath sliced through reinforced steel, which is also impervious to bullets without any trouble at all.

All in all, due to Wrath's comparable speed and superior skill, plus his feats of slicing things just as tough as Anderson effortlessly, to him Alexander will just be an out of the ordinary Homunculus.

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#36 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175 Alright I should have a post up later today. You okay with making one more post each after this, then call votes?

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#37 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: Not trying to rush you, but another CaV is starting for me so I'd like to finish this up soon.

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#39 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175:

Contrary to what you have said, as soon as Bradley uncovered his Ultimate Eye he began blitzing Greed, someone who can also weave through machinegun fire.

Greed ling never showed that he could casually weave through rifle fire as well as Wrath could. Besides it was still the same battle when Wrath unveiled his ultimate eye. Greed was still on the backfoot as he was at the beginning of the fight. Like I said it's too vague of an "amp" to really be relevant in this fight. He mentioned it was a "blindspot" so really it could be argued he no longer had a blindspot after taking his patch of. Giving him a clear view of the fight and his opponents moves. Yes I know the eye is supposed to be something more than that but really it's too vague. It's been mentioned as pointing out "weak points" in a characters defense and has an accolade of being something akin to a "God's eye" but again it has no clear feats. Him being able to blitz greed is shaky at best since he was trumping Greed with his speed the entire fight. After Greed was resurrected again it's not like he had an amp in speed that we saw. It was pretty much the same body type, Ling just added some skill into the fight as well as agility which allowed him enough to dodge Wraths attacks.

Also, when Fu fought Bradley he was using a weapon he was comfortable with, while Bradley was not. He even made mention of this, saying that his performance would be lowered due to being unfamiliar with the weapons he had on hand.

Right. Bradley had a knife but it really isn't that much of a stretch considering he'd been trained in bladed weapons since he was literally a young teen. He was quite comfortable using a knife since he showed enough proficiency to steal a sword back from Fu. That really does point at skill not just speed alone when he nabbed it back. All he mentioned that it can make a difference when you're more familiar with something. Not too much of a relevant point.

He also commented that Fu was nearly as fast as he was, so him holding his own against a disadvantaged Bradley really doesn't help your argument.

All he said was that his speed was impressive. In no way did he allude to him being comparable. He even showed this when he almost killed him had Greed not intervened. Fu has no speed showings that suggest he has parity with Bradley. I mentioned this because people not comparable to Bradley in speed have shown that they can keep up and stall him. They've used their agility and skill to contend with him (pointing out Greed here as he used his agility to stay in the fight). Alexander Anderson is just straight up faster than either of them so I don't see how this was too relevant.

Its in character for Bradley to go for the kill immediately if his opponent is not in some way important, and unless you have scans of Anderson regenerating from complete decapitation then he's going to be fodderized as soon as Bradley gets close. Speaking of which, you have also yet to prove that Anderson has the skill needed to hang with Bradley in close combat.

The same can be said for Alex. This is quite the big statement considering I've shown that Alexander Anderson has flat out better combat speed than Wrath. You've still failed to disprove this. Fodderize is an overstatement. I think you have this misconception that Bradley is comparable to Anderson in terms of speed so let me reiterate on why this is incorrect.

As I've shown before Alexander Anderson has thrown his bayonets at Alucard, during their first engagement, fast enough to bust the sound barrier. After he tossed them he blitzed past his bayonets and attacked Alucard. Now viewing this on it's own it's pretty impressive. It's faster than what Wrath has shown in terms of combat speed, he's never blitzed past something that broke the sound barrier. Now what makes this even more impressive is that his bayonets were too fast for vampire nazis to react to which have done this like I said.

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So these vampires are capable of easily dodging rifle rounds from skilled gunman and blitzing them. Alexander Anderson bayonets tagged them before they could react, and he's able to blitz past his bayonets. This is literally better combat speed than anything Bradley has shown. Wrath has good reflexes but his combat speed isn't comparable to this. So it goes like this, Alexander Anderson >> his bayonets > supersonic vampires. I'm surprised you'd even bring up the word fodderize when I've shown Alex is simply faster than him.

Speaking of which, you have also yet to prove that Anderson has the skill needed to hang with Bradley in close combat.

Even if he didn't have the exact "skill" to hang with Bradley his superior speed and regeneration would more than make up for it. If Greed Ling can block Bradleys attacks I don't see why someone with literal better speed feats couldn't do the same thing. Especially since Anderson has endured cutthroat training to be a Paladin and has years of experience fighting the supernatural. For example in Hellsing #62 he gets praise from Dracula when Alucard enters his most powerful form. Alucard has been fighting wars and battles for centuries. He has hundreds of years of battle experience and skill. What's important here is that he concedes that Alex has incredible training to even be able to hang with him in any sort of fight.

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Honestly I don't see why he'd be out of Wraths league who has far less battle experience and training than Alucard has. Anderson is able to fight pretty evenly with him because of his training and skill with his bayonets. Of course he has regeneration and speed to boost but Alucard was distinctly pointing out his experience and skill here. So really someone with superior speed and comparable skill is somehow going to be blitzed and whacked so easily? Not really happening.

I think you might be lowballing Wrath's injuries at the time he fought Scar. He had been impaled through the stomach, stabbed in the eye, and shot in the shoulder by a rifle. After all of that he still manages to fight Scar, and would have won too if not for one of the most PIS moments in manga history.

Not really. I pointed out his injuries because how he deals with mortal wounds will be relevant to this fight. He cannot regenerate in this battle. We've seen that he gets weaker with damage to his body and blood loss. It's quite clear. He gets slower, he gets tagged by Scar. He has good damage tolerance but his body can only endure so much. So I brought this up to point out that any wound he sustains by Alex (which he will pretty handily) will begin to tax his body. If his muscles get cut, they're not going to function properly. If his eye gets cut he can't use his ultimate eye (not that it'll matter much since it's vague). Anderson on the other hand can heal from his wounds, he can heal from damage. This is a distinct advantage in his favor. So while Bradley will be ruined by any attack from Anderson he on the other hand can heal and keep performing at his best. Your character does not enjoy this advantage, which I was pointing out by bringing up his wounds before his fight with Scar.

Here we see Scar dodge dozens of close range rounds from the best marksman in the series, and having trained and fought every day from the beginning of Brotherhood to the end, Scar was easily as fast if not faster than the Vampires Anderson blitzed when he fought a half blind, bleeding out Wrath and he still almost lost.

This is a massive stretch. Scar is moving faster than the gunman (aim dodging). He wasn't dodging literal bullets that the nazi vampires were. Maybe this image will help you visualize what a newly christened vampire is capable of. Seras gets bit by Alucard and morphs into a vampire. Keep in mind she hasn't mastered here speed, abilities, healing, etc. Yet she treats bullets as if they're a minor inconvenience.

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She's dodging bullets "bradley" style. Nazi vampires do the same, literally weaving through automatic rifle fire. How can you compare doing that to aim dodging bullets from two pistols? He never dodged a bullet that flew past him like people who have actually dodged bullets in that show. This argument doesn't hold up well. Even if we assume that Scar suddenly can dodge bullets when he's never been able to it isn't the same feat. Vampire who weaves through hundreds of automatic rifle fire >>>>> several pistol shots from a skilled shot. I could even go so far to tell you that all those guys were trained gunmen who've fought in a number of battles. So when we look at this feat in context especially if we assume Scar is a bullet timer, then the vampire is flat out faster. These same vampires get curbstomped by Alex in the speed department. It's a total stretch to say that Scar is faster than vampires who strictly have better combat speed and reflexes from what I've shown.

Therefore, a healthy Bradley with his Ultimate Eye intact is most definitely not going to be overwhelmed by Anderson's speed. What makes Wrath even more impressive is that when he cut that tank shell in half he was running towards it, and he had his Ultimate Eye covered. With speed like that Anderson is going to be hard pressed to outmaneuver Bradley especially considering the obvious skill difference between them.

It's not like he was blitzing them at supersonic speed so I don't see how cutting that shell in half is suddenly too much for Anderson. Again I've shown that Alex simply has better combat speed by fodderizing people who blitz through hails of automatic rifle fire. And on top of out blitzing his own bayonets which are too fast for said vampires that blitz through hails of gunfire. Really it's Bradley that will be hard pressed with his speed add on regeneration and he's going to struggle to have any sort of advantage.

Due to him being able to cut a tank shell in half, he should be able to cut through Anderson without to much trouble, as none of the durability feats you've presented trump that slicing feat. Also, having fought against and blitzed people with speed on par with or better than the Vampires that Anderson blitzed, they should be close in speed, but undeniably Wrath has a solid skill advantage, and as soon as he gets close, he'll dismember Anderson faster than he'll be able to regenerate.

I've already stated he can cut Anderson just as the former can do so quite easily. I was presenting those feats to show you that Anderson is far more durable than Wrath who actually gets debilitating wounds from bullets. Alex on the other hand shrugs of explosive rounds from a 13mm pistol as well as hails of gunfire. Another advantage in this fight that is sliding out of Bradleys favor. They aren't close in speed like I've shown. Wrath is fast but Anderson is simply faster. Bradley will have a hard time keeping up with someone who stomps supersonic vampires before they can react. Brad doesn't have a solid skill advantage either. Anderson was able to fight pretty evenly with a vampire that has fought other skilled and supernatural opponents for centuries. His accolade alone puts him in bradley tier. I haven't seen anything from Wrath to suggest he's just flat out better than Alex in skill. He won't be dismembering a faster and comparably skilled opponent who can heal. You're assuming that Wrath will somehow be untouchabe against such an opponent. Alex doesn't even have to tag him a stupid amount of times for it to show. He could simply bisect a couple of tendons in his arm and it will stop working. If Wrath were to cut Andersons throat he'll just heal and laugh (literally he's done it before).

All of which are also casual bullet-timers, especially Ed, as he was able to blitz Scar while playing around in the ice town. This shows that Wrath has the skill to outmaneuver Roy's explosions, along with Ed and Al at close range, so unless you can prove that Anderson has skill on this level, disregarding speed, he's not tagging Wrath.

No they're not casual bullet timers, they're not even comparable to Bradley in terms of speed who himself is comparable to fodder vampires in straight up speed feats. I mean I don't see how this point is relevant because Anderson could replicate this "feat" himself and do it even faster as I've shown. This point doesn't help your argument with how he'll contend with someone faster who has regen and comparable skills.

Really Greed Ling was able to block and dodge attacks from Wrath. His body didn't get a concrete amp in this I mean he wasn't made again to be even faster, which you'd have to prove, so the fight with Wrath helps my argument. If Ling could keep up with Wrath enough to not get fodderized how is someone faster and more skilled with better regeneration going to get dismembered?? The answer to this question is he won't. In this fight Bradley is at several noticeable disadvantages. Speed is not in his favor in fact he's slower than Anderson. He also isn't as durable as him meaning any sort of glancing cut will leave a mark and wound. A glancing wound to Alex probably won't leave anything major seeing as he's tanked explosive rounds like I've said multiple times before. If he gets wounded he can easily heal through it and continue fighting. Bradley can't heal and will suffer from his injuries. On top of this Anderson can use his bayonets at range to keep some sort of distance and put him on the backfoot if he so chooses. In a close up fight since he's comparably skilled this means Wrath can't simply cut his head off easily like you've suggested. So again I don't see anything that Bradley will bring to the table that will let him get a win.

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#40 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

Final Counters/Conclusions

Im going to adress your later point first, as it helps me settle in to the rest of my argument. Scar indeed was a bullet-timer, because he was blatantly dodging several rounds from Riza Hawkeye at close range, someone who has been noted in the show to never miss a shot. That wasn't even what I was arguing though, I said that by the end of Brotherhood, Scar would have easily been at least as fast as those "supersonic" Vampires. When he fought Wrath he was fresh and ready to go, while Bradley on the other hand was literally in the process of bleeding out by the time he confronted him. Onto what you said about Fu, he outran multiple turrets aimed directly at him while wallrunning through a narrow hallway, so he was able to "keep up" with Wrath in a way. This was due to the fact that Wrath was essentially playing with them the entire time, buying time for Father to start "The Promised Day". Now onto Alex's supersonic feat. Did he ever do that again? Throughout the entirety of Hellsing even when he's stronger, did his bayonets ever produce that effect again? IIRC, it never happened again, even in the anime. This being the crutch that your argument walks on, until you can prove that it is not inconsistent or an outlier, the feat will not be looked at. Bradley's feats are extremely consistent across the board but for Anderson, that is not consistent in portraying the power he has overall. I'd also like to point out that dodging hails of machinegun fire, does not make you supersonic. On to Bradley's eye, saying it is vague and writing it off is unacceptable, as with nearly every official source it is described as giving Wrath some form of precognition, along with pointing out weaknesses im his enemies, so thats how it will be treated here. For your point of Alex being skilled enough to fight Bradley in close combat, you have yet to show feats of this. The point you showed for Alucard complimenting his skill, that doesn't mean squat. Having hundreds of years of battle experience doesn't in any way make you a good fighter. A good example would be the original Greed, he was over 200 years old and had tons of battle experience, yet he was still a trash fighter and got destroyed by Wrath. By feats Dracula isn't even on Wrath's level in terms of skill, so him complimenting Alex doesn't mean anything. Onward, they all are casual bullet-timers, as they were fast enough to hang with the Bradley clones who eventually did subdue them. 1 Bradley clone>>>>>>>>>>> beginning of Brotherhood Scar by a large margin, so them being able to figh these clones means that they do indeed have that kind of speed. And Wrath was convinced he could take them all on at close range, including Mustang, with only 1 sword. Moving forward, Bradley will not be cutting Alex's throat, he'll be cutting off his head, and until you provide scans of him regenerating from complete decapitation, with how ruthless of a fighter Wrath is he's going to be in trouble. Also, in no way does Alex have skills comparable to Bradley, especially not in close combat, where he wont get to use his speed. The feats you've shown for Alex's durability have only been for piercing and exploding attacks, to which slicing attack are much different. I have shown Wrath casually cutting through things just as durable as Anderson without even breaking a sweat. As soon as Bradley gets close, and he will, Alex is going to sustain a wound that he cant heal from. Not to mention Bradley normally carries 6 swords when going into battle, which he would also have here, and we have seen how much better he is at dual wielding than he is single handing. And finally, Bradley's strength feats top anything Alex has done. His most notable strength feat is kicking the original Greed over 50ft away and through a thick concrete wall. His superior strength, comparable speed, superior skill, and his precognition should turn out to be to much for the Priest to handle, especially considering their humongous gap in close combat skill.

It has been fun, but I believe that Bradley has what it takes to put Anderson down, due to vastly superior skill, comparable speed, vastly superior strength, and the advantage of his Ultimate Eye. Good luck on your final post!

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#41 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio

@col_kassad: I know its without scans, but this is more or less the end of the debate so I spent my post arguing and reiterating rather than scan dumping. Good luck!

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#42 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: Okay cool. I'll have my post up soon and then just open it for votes. Sound good?

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#43 Edited by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going to adress your later point first, as it helps me settle in to the rest of my argument. Scar indeed was a bullet-timer, because he was blatantly dodging several rounds from Riza Hawkeye at close range, someone who has been noted in the show to never miss a shot. That wasn't even what I was arguing though, I said that by the end of Brotherhood, Scar would have easily been at least as fast as those "supersonic" Vampires.

This is speculation at best. First off it's speculation that he actually bullet timed. All we see is him strafing from side to side meaning he was moving faster than she could aim. He'd have to show similar speed to Bradley to actually dodge the bullets which he never showed. Like I pointed out he still had trouble with a Wrath that lost his ultimate eye and was mortally wounded. This doesn't bode well for his "bullet timing" ability. Also it's a huge stretch to even compare Scar to the vampires in Hellsing. Like I've stated already those vampires were weaving through massed rifle fire easily. That's not comparable to aim dodging pistol rounds from a marksmen. It doesn't even matter how accurate she can fire, all Scar has to do is move faster than she can react. You don't have to be a bullet timer to do this. Also why would Scar suddenly get faster at the end of the series? Did he start taking his flintstone gummies? There's no feats to suggest he got noticeably faster at the end of the series to compare him to a Hellsing Vampire.

When he fought Wrath he was fresh and ready to go, while Bradley on the other hand was literally in the process of bleeding out by the time he confronted him.

Right and Wrath couldn't even stomp someone who only has aim dodged. This is a bad feat for Wrath, understandably as he was wounded, so I don't see why you mentioned it.

Onto what you said about Fu, he outran multiple turrets aimed directly at him while wallrunning through a narrow hallway, so he was able to "keep up" with Wrath in a way. This was due to the fact that Wrath was essentially playing with them the entire time, buying time for Father to start "The Promised Day".

Again there's nothing to suggest he was comparable to Wrath in speed. Bradley only mentioned he found it impressive i.e. "wow I haven't stomped you yet". Bradley also seemed pretty determined to kill them as can be seen by him pulling the eye patch off in essence revealing his trump card.

Now onto Alex's supersonic feat. Did he ever do that again? Throughout the entirety of Hellsing even when he's stronger, did his bayonets ever produce that effect again? IIRC, it never happened again, even in the anime. This being the crutch that your argument walks on, until you can prove that it is not inconsistent or an outlier, the feat will not be looked at.

Yes they did when he threw a cloud of bayonets at supersonic vampires and tagged them before they could react. The feat isn't an outlier at all since he consistently operates at this higher end level of speed. I mean he fights evenly with Alucard who caught a supersonic+ bullet (it was tagging missiles out of the air) with his teeth in Hellsing #33

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So yes him throwing bayonets at supersonic+ speed and moving even faster than that himself is consistent. Also he is exclusive to Hellsing meaning it's the only place where he has feats. It was written under one author not multiple so he doesn't have low or high end feats. What he shows is how he operates on a consistent basis.

Bradley's feats are extremely consistent across the board but for Anderson, that is not consistent in portraying the power he has overall. I'd also like to point out that dodging hails of machinegun fire, does not make you supersonic.

You're right they are consistent. Sadly they're consistently less impressive than Andersons hence why he'll have the speed advantage in this fight. Also weaving through machine gun fire is the very definition of operating at supersonic speeds. I showed you a gif of Seras explicitly dodging bullets as soon as she became a vampire.

On to Bradley's eye, saying it is vague and writing it off is unacceptable, as with nearly every official source it is described as giving Wrath some form of precognition,

See this is what I'm talking about. It is vague and you can't argue otherwise. Does it allow him to see several steps ahead? Is it move reading? Clarevoyance etc. It does not have a concrete powerset other than "showing an opponents weakness". What kind of weakness does it show? How explicit are these weaknesses that are shown? He pulled out his Ultimate Eye and didn't even stomp Greed Ling who was still able to dodge and react albeit he had less of an advantage. So yes it is vague and I'm not wholly writing it off because it has some loose feats. Yet on the otherhand you haven't shown how it'll give Bradley enough of an advantage to beat someone faster, more durable, comparably skilled, with actual regeneration.

For your point of Alex being skilled enough to fight Bradley in close combat, you have yet to show feats of this. The point you showed for Alucard complimenting his skill, that doesn't mean squat. Having hundreds of years of battle experience doesn't in any way make you a good fighter. A good example would be the original Greed, he was over 200 years old and had tons of battle experience, yet he was still a trash fighter and got destroyed by Wrath.

I did. Him fighting a supernatural opponent with hundreds of years of battle experience and getting a compliment from him is impressive. He's the Vaticans top agent which means he's endured years of cutthroat training to be their best agent. I mean wrath isn't drowning in skill feats tbh. We know he's trained his entire life and we know he was trained in using a blade. Nothing suggests he's a top tier martial artist. Also that comparison isn't accurate since he was stomped by Wraths speed not his straight up skill. I mean he got blitzed right at the beginning of the fight and was run over from there. Also Greed isn't as old as Alucard and has noticeably less experience than him.

Onward, they all are casual bullet-timers, as they were fast enough to hang with the Bradley clones who eventually did subdue them. 1 Bradley clone>>>>>>>>>>> beginning of Brotherhood Scar by a large margin, so them being able to figh these clones means that they do indeed have that kind of speed.

They were failed experiments and I don't remember a single feat from them that suggested ed and co. beat them casually. In fact they struggled to win while using their alchemy.

Bradley will not be cutting Alex's throat, he'll be cutting off his head, and until you provide scans of him regenerating from complete decapitation, with how ruthless of a fighter Wrath is he's going to be in trouble.

I said that because I was pointing out that superficial cuts won't debilitate Alex while they will do so to Bradley. This is something you keep disregarding. You're argument has hinged on Bradley somehow blitzing someone faster and then cutting his head off. I've disproved this by showing you Alex is just better in every category bar skill which is still arguable.

Also, in no way does Alex have skills comparable to Bradley, especially not in close combat, where he wont get to use his speed.

Fighting evenly with a half century old vampire who has dealt with skilled fighters and supernatural monsters since the middle ages is pretty decent tbh. He was matching Alucard using a blade at the end of the series. I'm not arguing that Alucard has some refined technical skill with a blade but I don't see how Bradley is noticeably better in skill. He has enough skill that when combined with his superior speed will be enough to put Wrath on the backfoot from the beginning. And how wouldn't he use speed in close combat lol. Reflecting attacks and counterattacking relies on speed and precision. Alex isn't suddenly going to turn into a potato when Bradley gets up close. In fact his speed will be enough to overwhelm him when he tries to go toe to toe with him.

As soon as Bradley gets close, and he will, Alex is going to sustain a wound that he cant heal from. Not to mention Bradley normally carries 6 swords when going into battle, which he would also have here, and we have seen how much better he is at dual wielding than he is single handing. And finally, Bradley's strength feats top anything Alex has done. His most notable strength feat is kicking the original Greed over 50ft away and through a thick concrete wall. His superior strength, comparable speed, superior skill, and his precognition should turn out to be to much for the Priest to handle, especially considering their humongous gap in close combat skill.

He will and it'll be the last thing he does. Him getting close just makes andersons job so much easier. My character is noticeably faster than Bradley by him being able to blitz characters that weave through hails of bullets. On top of this he fights evenly with Alucard who casually catches mach bullets that tagged missiles in his teeth. These feats are simply superior to what Wrath has shown. Once he gets in close he's going to lose. On top of this like I've said as soon as he gets wounded he'll get slower. Alex can heal from any wound he sustains and continue fighting. This is a huge advantage that you've only "countered" with stating that somehow Wrath will overwhelm someone superior to him in speed. Also again you've shown nothing to suggest that Wrath his overwhelmingly superior to Alex in terms of skill. Also in terms of physicals Anderson casually overpowers vampires that have superhuman physicals. He also went toe to toe with Alucard in strength who is even more powerful than your average vampire. So to reiterate Anderson is faster than him, an advantage he will heavily abuse in this fight to stay ahead of Bradley and tag him numerous times. He also has regeneration to aid him in continuing the fight if he gets wounded by Bradley, I don't see this happening often here tbh. He's also more durable than Wrath so any sort of glancing cut will doubtfully leave any sort of noticeable wound. Wrath gets harmed by bullets and bladed weapons so him accruing even glancing wounds from Anderson will add up. In essence Alex is just too fast, comparably skilled, has regeneration, and his more durable. As soon as Bradley gets up close to fight he will lose the fight.

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#46 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by deactivated-5ac4e862bd47b (3700 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: @col_kassad:

You both did great, the discussion was very informative.

As to who won, im voting for Col_Kassad, because i felt he provided logical counters to almost everything that Valor proposed. That said you both did a good job of providing counters to your opponents arguments. I just think that Col did it a bit better.

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#48 Posted by ValorKnight (12213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by col_kassad (216 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthsenju Thanks for the feedback and vote.

Kassad: 1

Valor: 0

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#50 Posted by Darthjhawk (5342 posts) - - Show Bio

@valor_175: @col_kassad:

This was a awesome debate, I got to know more on Bradley, and learned a lot on Anderson and consequently Hellsing.

As for the debate, I came in thinking that this would be a very even debate, as the characters seemed to play similar roles in their respective series.Midway through reading I felt that Kassad had the edge, but in the end I came out still thinking that this was very even, and here are my thoughts.

Valor, I believe that you proved that while Bradley is outpaced by Alexander, you still had Bradley's advantage in strength and skill, although I feel that Kassad could have possibly countered them more. However you factored in the Ultimate Eye, which IMO was what made the difference in this fight.

Kassad, based on everything shown, I think you proved how Anderson could out-speed Bradley throughout the fight. However, I think without a proper counter to something like the Ultimate Eye it would be much more difficult for the blitz you want, which Valor stated. Not that I didn't notice your argument about it being vague, It is just that I'm not convinced that Anderson could completely counter it with just his speed.

Over all my vote goes to Valor in the end in a very close debate for me. Good work to both of you.