@laflux Alright, some counters.
I do think that teamwork has enabled people and groups of people to overcome great odds before. Take 616 Captain America as a, ironic, but good example. He's been outnumbered tons of times, but because of his close relationship with his troops, they have pushed against the flow of the world itself. While Captain America is very experienced and famous for his strategic/tactical prowess, I don't see it overcoming the close bond that Deadpool and Wolverine how. This is not to mention that Wolverine has led the X-Men numerous times, and was the leader of the X-Force. 1610 Cap also doesn't seem all too impressive in terms of leadership, and also hasn't displayed much of it with just one companion with him. Same with 616 Cap, his shining moments of glory in that regard are always in teams, whether it be the Avengers or his close pack of soldiers. I've never seen 616, let alone 1610 Steve give any impressive commands with one, or even two other allies present.
This is just false. Ultimate Cap has one of the best strategic Commanding I ever seen in a comic.
He single handily came up with the plan to beat Hulk. Using Jan to Venom Blast the human part of the brain!
He single handily beaten Red Skull holding a Cosmic Cube with a plan he came up with on the fly! Using Teleport Jet to impale him!
He came up with the plan to beat America defectors in United We Stand event. He planed and led the attack against forces that launch a nuke! He Became President in the process as well!
Cap takes on the rebels of Texas who have a Nimrod Sentinel.
Cap then takes on California and Wyoming to unite America once more, ending a Civil War within a few days. It is then he has to face Modi, Thor's son, with the Mind Gem, and has Thor under his command. Cap owns.
Cap with just his Shield, takes on over 100+ armed Hydra soldiers that were trained by Nick Fury himself.
He called the shots and single handily ended the Vampire threat to the world. He decided to use Perun hammer to transport the Vampires where it was SUNNY!
I have hundreds more examples of Cap genius and tactical skill that FAR outweighs Wolverine and Deadpool's combined. But I made my point.
TEAMWORK:
Teamwork, an often vastly underrated aspect of a battle that can shift an the advantage from one side to another in the blink of the eye. Bad chemistry can take away the numerous advantages a team holds. In short, teamwork will be a pretty big factor in this fight. Now, my boy @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek already expounded on this facet of our team’s advantage, but I will talk about this just a little more. Wolverine and Deadpool are in no way lacking in this department here. They have had extensive time working with each other with their lives at risk during Rick Remender’s Uncanny X-Force run. Wade was willing to accept being a soldier taking orders from Wolverine and the two have a great amount of trust between each other. Wade has even shown extreme fear for Wolverine’s life during the run. While Wade and James have some great teamwork going on, I’d argue that Ultimate Captain America and Miles are not doing so hot in that department in comparison to Team Insane Healing Factors. Miles and Steve’s relationship is a hard nosed as%hole to Miles who has just been trying to live up to his legacy as the next Spider-Man, and just be an awesome hero. Steve’s stubborn and capricious attitude will not be very helpful here considering that he is bringing a relative greenhorn against two of Marvel’s deadliest street levelers, and needs to help him adjust to confronting foes of such a high level of skill.. In short, Wolverine and Deadpool’s great synergy is going to be a nice factor in here helping them walk away with the victory.
Team Chemistry
Chemistry is "growth, then decay, then transformation". Sorry, had to put a Breaking Bad reference here. *cough* Moving on. Sure, Ultimate Cap and Miles Morales have worked together extensively before, and seem to work along just fine, but it doesn't compare with the personal history and chemistry that Logan and Wade have. Not only are the two closer because of what they have gone through, but they've also worked as a team on multiple instances. On the surface it might seem as all Wade does is annoy Wolverine, and while that may be true, it doesn't stop there. Deadpool and Wolverine have run into each other as friends and foes more times than I can count and know each other pretty well to an extent where its applicable in combat. Remender's UNCANNY X-FORCE is an excellent example of where Deadpool not only cooperates extremely well with Wolverine, but also as a team with the likes of Psylocke, Fantomex, and Archangel. Captain America may be a great leader, but these two are on a familiar ground that not even Ultimate or 616 Cap's leadership can compare to.
This is a funny joke right? This has to be a joke. Ultimate Cap and miles teamwork is leagues better and for one reason only, they trust each other. Many times Deadpool and and Wolverine fought against each other and very few times worked together./ They may have respect for each other and sometimes team up, but that in no way translates into trust!
Ultimate Cap and Miles have intimate trust with each other.
Cap accepts Miles as a valuable partner and they begin training together.
Here Miles not only saves Cap, but then Cap and Miles work together flawlessly to beat Hydra sneak attack on them.
Cap brings Miles to the war to do what Miles does here, cover Caps back!
The sad fact is this. Your team is more likely to watch and laugh at the other members pain, they are always competing to one up the other, and they have very little trust of the other. Cap and Miles are willing to die for the other, trust each other completely, and work together as a true team.
Take into account ultimate Cap tactical superiority over Wolverine and Deadpool. combined, then the team work becomes that much more effective as well.
VERSUS ULTIMATE CAPTAIN AMERICA:
Ultimate Captain America, the Ultimate Universe’s own sentinel of liberty. He has gained fame and infamy around comic book debating websites for his own looser moral code and noticeably superior physicals in comparison to 616 Captain America. While a worthy foe indeed, Ultimate Captain America also has disadvantages that will allow Wolverine to beat him. First off, I address fighting skill. I firmly believe Wolverine is holding a distinct fighting skill edge over Ultimate skill. In terms of raw technical skill, I think Wolverine has pulled off superior things in like stating knowing how to incapacitate every living thing that “Walks, flies, or slithers in this big ole universe.” He backed it up too when he went on to incapacitate the 50+ tonner Strontian Kid Gladiator. Secondly, I feel Wolverine has had better training in comparison to Ultimate Steve, and better expoundation on his specific areas of martial art prowess. Now I know that Ultimate Steve was thoroughly trained to be a highly skilled fighting scene by the military, but let’s take a look at Wolverine’s training history? He’s mastered 18 forms of Kung Fu under Master Po, he learned kenjutsu, aikido, buijuitsu, and more under the level 7/7 fighter Ogun, he has trained under the Hand Leader stick (The man who trained Daredevil, one of the Marvel Universe’s best fighters), he learned more Kung Fu from Shang Chi, he’s been extensively trained by the military just like Cap, and he has multiple bios noting that he has mastered every martial art known to man, and is a confirmed 7/7 talent. Ultimate Steve simply doesn’t match up in terms of training quality IMO. He essentially has everything he has training wise, and a little more.
Training is all good, but you got to back it up with feats. Let’s look at Wolverine’s plethora of skill feats, shall we? He has managed to beat Iron Fist in a sparring match in New Avengers both were holding back, he beat 616 Captain America (Someone who has mastered every martial art known to man, has beaten some of Marvel’s finest fighters, has been called the finest warrior by Kang the Conqueror) handily in Origins despite having a severely nerfed healing factor, and Steve being fresh, he’s managed to gain the upperhand on Daredevil in a fight, he’s beaten the ridiculously talented swordsman Silver Samurai twice, he beat Mister X (A ludicrous skilled fighter who has on panel confirmation of knowing every martial known to man and alien ones, and had low level telepathy that allows him to predict opponent’s attacks) when he went into a feral state and relied purely on instinct and skill, he’s beaten Captain America’s extremely adept sidekick Winter Soldier silly while handcuffed, he has destroyed his son Daken on two occasions (In the first one, a Wolverine holding back managed to rip out Daken’s claws, and beat him handily. On the second one, a Wolverine who had finally been pushed to the point of letting loose, went on to obliterate and kill Daken.), finished Shang Chi in three pages, and more. James is arguably the most skilled man walking Marvel Earth today. Wolverine’s skill is going to end up lessening some of Ultimate Cap’s advantages.
Now, looking at physicals, Ultimate Cap is a completely different beast than 616 Steve. He is clearly superhuman who is about a 8-9 toner and is rocking a decent healing factor that lets him heal broken bones in days and gunshot wounds in hours. While I concede Ultimate Steve is superior in strength, Wolverine is no slouch strength wise himself. He is a confirmed 2 ton low level superhuman who has nonchalantly thrown 1,600 lb. dumpsters with one hand, knocked out a 2,000 lb. bear with two punches, knocked out the 15 tonner Apocalyspe Caliban, when they got into a fist fight, he’s knocked out Roguehouse in a bar fight, uses trees as baseball bats, punches through steel, etc. Something that I feel bridges the physical strength gap, is Wolverine’s ridiculous superhuman speed. He has made Spider-Man think he was faster than him with it, he’s dodged bullets after they have been fired, he covers 30 foot distances so fast that it looks like he didn’t move at all, he’s moved fast enough to kill ninja without them evening noticing that he just killed them, he’s dodged Cyclops optic blasts while weakened, dodged rockets, started ten feet from a Nuke with his finger on a rocket launcher and kicked it away before the rocket left the launcher all while weakened, etc.
Ultimate Captain America has a more diverse set of standard equipment than 616 Steve from what I have seen which includes grenades, etc., but it won’t really do much here. The grenades will be soaked with Logan’s extremely consistent history soaking much worse explosions/heat, and his guns will be soaked as well. The biggest piece of equipment that Ultimate Steve will be bringing here is his shield, and that sadly will not be enough. All that shield brings is blunt force, and blunt force soaking is Wolverine’s bread and butter to say the least. Sure, he has a few low showings like anyone who has been in 10,000+ comics, but looking at his consistent feats, Ultimate Steve isn’t bringing enough blunt force to drop James. He’s regularly soaked 616 Steve’s shield bashes which have KO’d metahumans, the 30-35 toner Scarlet Spider recently almost broke his hand when he tried to slug out Wolverine for the win, tanked punches from Spider-Man, Caliban, and many more superhumanns. Wolverine is in contrast if bringing a far superior damage output into this fight with his adamantium claws. Even with Ultinate Cap's decent healing factor, I really don't see him holding up well after getting stabbed and slashed a few times. Really, the way I see this fight going down, once James starts utilizing his skill, he's going to get around that shield and start going for dismemberment of limbs. Ultimate Cap can put up a decent effort against Wolverine, but not enough to pull his team to victory.
You know what, I really see no reason to address all this. Most of it is accurate.
- Strength Cap
- Speed Near Even
- Durability Near Even
- Healing Factor Wolverine
- Skill Wolverine Slightly IMO if he uses it, Cap wins this if we take into Wolverine lack of skill use in most of his showings.
So overall pretty even in stats. With that said Ultimate Cap knows who Wolverine is and how to deal with Wolverine.
Ultimate Cap faces a equal awesome Ultimate Wolverine twice, how does he deal with Ultimate Wolverine? He uses RANGE!
Here he tries to mentally throw Wolverine off with Banter and then light him up at range to tax his healing Factor.
Key Word here is TAX HIS HEALING FACTOR. This is true to 616 Wolverine who has TONS of showings having his healing factor taxed which can and does slow Wolverine down.
Here Ultimate cap Grenades Wolverine from a distance and then pins him to the floor with his better strength. See a pattern here?
Unlike the 616 Cap who is all Close Combat, Ultimate Cap uses guns and Grenades for range advantage against Wolverine who Ultimate Cap knows is a super deadly foe.
Truth is Ultimate Cap can hang for a good time against Wolverine. Miles meanwhile can easily deal with Deadpool via Venom Sting and Webbing. Thus Wolverine with his taxed Healing Factor will have to deal with 2 on 1 since it is in character 100% for Cap to keep Wolverine at range.
Now on to Deadpool vs Cap, this is a no brainer.
- Strength Cap by a large degree.
- Speed Near Even.
- Durability Near Even
- Healing Deadpool by a large degree
- Skills Cap by a large degree. Deadpool being Serious is as rare as World Breaker Hulk. Deadpool in character rarely fights with his full skill and is a Captain America fan!
Deadpool has 2 huge disadvantages against him. One is Deadpool is a Captain America fan.
He will not go all out against Ultimate Cap off the bat. The best part is Ultimate Cap is superior to 616 in every way, yet 616 Cap held his own against a Serious Deadpool!
So why should Ultimate cap fear Deadpool when he has faced far worse in Kleiser.
Kleiser has double digit ton strength, skills from decades of fighting and leading armies, and a super insane healing factor. Cap beats this guy.
Lets look at his feats.
1) He pushes a fortified Bunker door.
2-3) Kleiser surviving a Jet Fuel explosion after being rammed by a fighter jet into it.
4) Laughs off his head half blown off and heals instantly.
5) Slamed around by a blood lusted Hulk and remains intact through it all.
6) Here he lifts a multi ton Cargo Truck and throws it.
7) Took Hulk's best haymackers without being KOed or smeared to a pulp.
Kleiser > Deadpool in all areas of stats. He is quite skilled too. Yet cap tank this brute and beat him with a KO. Deadpool stands no match thanks to Cap's showing against Kleiser.
Sumary
Wolverine is your best guy here due to his Adamantium and Healing to stay in the fight. Deadpool is the clear weak link here, and will make this battle 9/10 times a 2 on one against Wolverine. Also Team Work wise our team has it in spades. Out team also has better stats overall in strength, and better power sets to beat Logan thanks to Miles Web incap or Venom Sting. Cap's own brilliant mind and tactical prowess is further help to victory here.
Our team should win pretty handily.
Log in to comment