• 72 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#1 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

No Caption Provided

VS

Team LixShazamThunder (@nighthunder, @shazamfan666, @lixvari)

  • Naruto (Pre-Shippuden), Raimundo (Xiaolin Showdown), Master Chief (Halo)
No Caption Provided

Rules

  • Morals on and in character.
  • Standard equipment.
  • Standard elimination rules.
  • Start 30 feet apart from each other.

Setting

Ignore the space atmosphere. Everyone is perfectly fine in this arena. Scarlet Spider starts at A, and Team starts at B.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for dondave
#2 Posted by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be Awesome

Avatar image for ghostravage
#3 Posted by GhostRavage (14925 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome CaV Layout... This should be quite entertaining.

Avatar image for Oreoassassin421
#4 Posted by OreoAssassin (7625 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wolverine008
#5 Posted by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

Sh%t, YNCG is pushing his limits I see.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#6 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for cjdavis103
#7 Edited by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

3 on 1?

* grabs popcorn and a seat*

good luck webhead your going to need it

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#8 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

All right I'm gonna start off with the different characters and why I think ol' Kaine would be able to defeat them.

Naruto

Uzumaki is a formidable opponent, sure, but in my opinion, he lacks the durability and offensive output to put down Scarlet Spider for the count. For one, he has never endured anywhere near 30 tons of force flying into his face. He's also just a kid. Also, in a neutral fight outside of his own universe, without PIS to protect him, he won't keep getting up after he gets knocked out with some epic speech about not giving up. On the other hand, Kaine's durability far exceeds Naruto's own (this also links in to how Uzumaki doesn't have enough offensive output to defeat Scarlet Spider). I know you're going to start giving examples of Naruto's numerous jutsus and their destructive capability, but I'm going to have to stop you right there. For one, I know you're probably going to use the ninja's Clone Jutsu. Upon analysis, I've come to the conclusion that that particular technique, performed by a more mature and experienced Naruto, consumes more than a couple seconds to actually create the clones. Kaine on the other hand, has simultaneously dodged and outraced bullets with absolute ease, out of costume.

No Caption Provided

On average, most shotgun shells travel at over 500 miles per hour at the close range depicted in the scan above (the upper range is around 700-1000 miles per hour). That's insanely fast! I don't see Naruto being able to pull off any type of jutsu before being speed blitzed and taken care of. On top of that, none of the Uzumaki's projectiles, such as kunai should be able to effectively tag Scarlet Spider in order to injure him or as a catalyst to another event/technique/jutsu. As far as I know, bullets far outrace any kunai, even thrown by an expert and enhanced by anime physics. Even if Kaine is distracted battling your other teammates, he's caught an arrow from behind and dodged pistol shots from members of the Assassins Guild before.

No Caption Provided

On top of all this, Kaine has experience fighting ninjas. Naruto, despite his new gimmicks, shouldn't be too much of a problem. If he tries to use Rasengan, which takes a considerable amount of time and energy to use, Kaine can just use his webbing to make a protective barrier between him and Uzumaki. Keep in mind that Scarlet Spider's webbing is natural, unlike Spider-Man's, so it has a near infinite supply. It's also more durable than steel. This is not to mention Kaine has experience with attacks similar to the Rasengan. On the off chance that Naruto successfully makes Ninja clones, that also shouldn't be much of a problem since an entire group of Hand Ninjas fell to Kaine in two pages, and he fought a fairly dangerous zombie ninja and blitzed him with ease.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I also wanted to further analyze the set of scans above. To start, the first scan clearly states that he was tagged numerous times by similar weaponry that the Narutoverse characters often carry in their arsenal. Well, despite those injuries, Kaine is perfectly fine the next scan. Next, in the second scan, the Scarlet Spider is able to dodge a certain attack that functions similarly to Naruto's own Rasengan, so I don't think that particular jutsu is going to be too much trouble for my combatant to take care of. If that's not enough validation, he can just web Naruto's feet and make him trip on his own attack.

The Champion of the Leaf Village should go down...hard...

Master Chief

Ah, isn't it heavily ironic that I am debating against one of the characters I've defended the most? Unfortunately, as a Halo fan myself, I'd be the first to admit Chief is outmatched here. The only department that John has an advantage in here is his durability, and that should be bypassed by Scarlet Spider's own speed, strength, and brutality. First, let's cover weaponry and their effectiveness in this battle. We've already covered how Scarlet Spider effortlessly dodges weapon fire above with Naruto, so I'll skip that part. Let's focus on their damage output for now. Bullets, even if they do hit by some freak accident, have been regularly shrugged off by Kaine before. I'll give you an example.

  • After fighting through some other Assassins Guild members, Kaine briefly battles Smithy on a speeding train, who can make weapons appear out of nowhere. He gets shot in the shoulder, and in the next page, barely acknowledges it and fights like it never happened.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Kaine has also been stabbed near the shoulder, which penetrates right through his body and actually sticks out the other end. Of course, he shrugs it off like nothing and continues to fight Carnage. So, piercing damage is not a problem for Kaine. I can't say the same for SPARTAN-II's though, who have died to Energy Sword attacks a number of times. Also, firing guns heavily provokes Kaine to use webbing, which I think is a game-changer here. I'm not sure how the webbing would effect the shields, but the stingers should be able to bypass MJOLNIR's energy shielding, and in turn allow webbing to pin down John. I know, I know, you're (and probably the audience) are probably saying that Chief has tanked atmospheric re-entry before right? Well if a Hunter's shield bashing can wear down MJOLNIR's energy shielding, than stingers that have effectively injured venom symbiotes backed up by Kaine's 30 tons of strength should do the job as well. Not only do stingers heavily turn the tide for Kaine in close quarters combat with Master Chief, but he can also disarm the super-soldier before he can use his weapon. But what if Master Chief does squeeze off a shot in close range you say? That's not a problem. Kaine has dodged a point-blank sniper shot (which travel over 2000 feet per second).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Moving on, I'm also aware of the radar that is built-into the MJOLNIR armor, which can potentially be able to "sniff" out Kaine. While I won't deny it will probably track the arachnid hero, I am willing to argue over the fact that Chief will even be able to react to Scarlet Spider's attacks. We haven't even factored in Kaine's cloaking ability, which, although have failed for the countless Elites that have done battle with John-117, should be successful in this case with Kaine's superhuman speed. If Chief does get notified of my combatant's presence and starts firing away, he'll only be emptying bullets into his own teammates.

No Caption Provided

At most Chief has dodged some plasma fire, but he still gets tagged by them from time to time. Kaine has dodged hails of bullets all focused on him before with relative ease, as he doesn't have the luxury of energy shielding protecting him. John is about ten times faster than an average human out of armor, which is amplified by a factor of five inside the armor. Despite this, Kaine has displayed better feats of speed/agility. He's dodged point-blank uzi gunfire while swinging in the air, speed-blitzed a highly trained zombie ninja and a street-level speedster, and wrecked an entire room of criminals armed with MP5s before. The most impressive agility feat for John is probably taking on a room full of Covenant Brutes, but he used some Brutes as cover to prevent himself from being shot.

In the strength department, John is probably in the 5-10 ton range, as he has consistently shown to be able to flip over Warthogs, which weighs around 3.25 tons. However, Kaine has completely crushed a Hummer simply by jumping from a tall height. If that's not enough, he's broken through chains specially designed by Jackal to withstand Peter's peak strength (which is around 20 plus tons). That puts him over and above the 30 ton range. Not even Covenant Brutes rival that type of physical output, and they have given John trouble in a match of might before.

Simply put, Scarlet Spider has the speed, brutality, and strength to defeat Master Chief.

Raimundo

Don't know much about this guy to be honest. All I know is he's a fairly formidable hand-to-hand combatant, has limited manipulation over wind, and a sword that can create a tornado. However, Kaine has fought against the Rangers before, which are Houston's premiere superhero team. One of the members is The Texas Twister, who is basically a man-tornado, and he pretty much humiliated the entire team.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8

Also to note, in Scan 4 above, Kaine dodges both electric and fire based elemental attacks. Anyways, Kaine isn't going to be really surprised with wind-based attacks. Oh, and Raimundo isn't going to be able to use any of his sword techniques if he's all webbed up. Even if he does manage to create wind-based attacks, I doubt a force of a small tornado (that might also be a downside if it will also interfere with your own team's progress) is going to do much to Scarlet Spider when he's felt punches from Bruiser, who has scuffled with The Hulk himself, and endured a severe beating from Kraven without even being knocked out. That, and an explosion of Mammon, an entity of pure energy, and a nuclear plant simultaneously, and walked out fine.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Next is speed. I highly doubt Raimundo has the agility and raw swiftness to keep up with Scarlet Spider, who, when actually trying, can easily outpace Superior Spider-Man, Kraven, and highly trained Assassin Guild members. Now, in one of the videos I've seen you post as a feat for Raimundo, he clearly gets tagged numerous times by characters kaine would have no problem evading, as well as similar attacks.

Loading Video...

The Xiaolin Warrior doesn't even use most of his infamous wind-based attacks until after he's taken a pretty hefty beating from the numerous opponents he's facing. Add that to the fact that those chumps seem infinitely slower and less physically able than The Scarlet Spider, and I think Raimundo should be subtracted from this equation rather quickly. If Kaine decides to use his stingers, Raimundo is dead meat. Does Raimundo have any feats of durability? How about 30 tons? I highly doubt so. The enemies that Raimundo has difficulty fighting are nothing compared to what Kaine goes through. That giant clawed beast Omi had trouble taking down? Kaine has the strength to literally remove its jaw.

No Caption Provided

Raimundo is also from a kid's cartoon, and won't use the brutal force that Kaine will and has shown to utilize in his current run. He won't kill any of your teammates, but he'll beat them to a bloody pulp to the point where they'll spend months healing in the hospital. I'm fairly confident from what I've shown so far that Kaine should take this handily.

Avatar image for higorm
#9 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

Avatar image for superdrummer
#10 Posted by SuperDrummer (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

Make sure to tag me after all is said and done, definitely going to want to read/vote on the full debate

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#11 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for cjdavis103
#12 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

wow 3 on one for debaters as well this could get ugly

Avatar image for tparks
#13 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

So feel free to tag me for voting. This looks awesome.

Avatar image for sheenlantern
#14 Posted by SheenLantern (7619 posts) - - Show Bio

This looks good fun, I hope it catches on.

Avatar image for Oreoassassin421
#15 Edited by OreoAssassin (7625 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deathstroke19
#16 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

#15 Edited by OreoAssassin (1067 posts) - 30 seconds ago - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Wow. Amazing opening!

Also, good luck to all of you but especially to YNCG because he's alone on his own team.

Avatar image for cooldes
#17 Edited by Cooldes (4908 posts) - - Show Bio

Watch out guys... we got a bad ass over here

Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#18 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

For sure tag me in on voting as well when the time comes.

Avatar image for juiceboks
#19 Edited by juiceboks (24549 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking pretty damn good so far, can't wait for the end result :D

Moderator
Avatar image for lixvari
#20 Posted by lixvari (124 posts) - - Show Bio

First, let's cover weaponry and their effectiveness in this battle. We've already covered how Scarlet Spider effortlessly dodges weapon fire above with Naruto, so I'll skip that part. Let's focus on their damage output for now. Bullets, even if they do hit by some freak accident, have been regularly shrugged off by Kaine before. I'll give you an example.

  • After fighting through some other Assassins Guild members, Kaine briefly battles Smithy on a speeding train, who can make weapons appear out of nowhere. He gets shot in the shoulder, and in the next page, barely acknowledges it and fights like it never happened.

I see what you're saying about Kaine's resistance to bullets, but I doubt he's ever been pierced by one of the Halo Magnum. More specifically the M225. The pistol we see in the very first Halo game that tears through Elites like their nothing more than paper. These pistols are loaded with 50 caliber, high explosive rounds, and I think that's something that Kaine won't be able to shrug off. Next is the MA5C. This assault rifle fires at 650 revolutions per minute. The rounds used are 7.62x51mm FMJ rounds. If Kaine gets hit by these at close range He will look like nothing more than Swiss Cheese.

Kaine has also been stabbed near the shoulder, which penetrates right through his body and actually sticks out the other end. Of course, he shrugs it off like nothing and continues to fight Carnage. So, piercing damage is not a problem for Kaine. I can't say the same for SPARTAN-II's though, who have died to Energy Sword attacks a number of times. Also, firing guns heavily provokes Kaine to use webbing, which I think is a game-changer here. I'm not sure how the webbing would effect the shields, but the stingers should be able to bypass MJOLNIR's energy shielding, and in turn allow webbing to pin down John. I know, I know, you're (and probably the audience) are probably saying that Chief has tanked atmospheric re-entry before right? Well if a Hunter's shield bashing can wear down MJOLNIR's energy shielding, than stingers that have effectively injured venom symbiotes backed up by Kaine's 30 tons of strength should do the job as well. Not only do stingers heavily turn the tide for Kaine in close quarters combat with Master Chief, but he can also disarm the super-soldier before he can use his weapon. But what if Master Chief does squeeze off a shot in close range you say? That's not a problem. Kaine has dodged a point-blank sniper shot (which travel over 2000 feet per second).

Hmm as far as I know I've never read or seen a single Spartan II fall to a mere energy sword. Except in the video games, and thats only if you get hit. Now Spartan III's are a different story, but even they can keep moving after being stabbed by a energy sword. Plus what we also have to remember that the reason that those energy swords are so lethal is because of how hot they are which when stabbed into the body burn all of the targets innards and cauterizes the wound. As far as a regular blade being stabbed through any Spartan II will tank it. Even the III's wouldn't have a problem with it. The webbing would most likely not even really effect the shield. As some bullets don't even register to its shield which is seen during the Chief's first run through with the armor. However a Hunter's shield may damage a spartans shield, but what you have to remember is that it is made of the same alloy as the Covenant's ship. It also weighs two tons, and is being swung by a alien that weighs over 10 thousand pounds, and can exert at least double that when swinging it's shield. Plus will Kaine even be able to tag Chief? Chief's reaction time out of armor is 20 milliseconds, and is even faster when he is in the armor. Chief can even run at 34 mph without armor, and in armor at up to 65 Mph and that was with a torn tendon.

At most Chief has dodged some plasma fire, but he still gets tagged by them from time to time. Kaine has dodged hails of bullets all focused on him before with relative ease, as he doesn't have the luxury of energy shielding protecting him. John is about ten times faster than an average human out of armor, which is amplified by a factor of five inside the armor. Despite this, Kaine has displayed better feats of speed/agility. He's dodged point-blank uzi gunfire while swinging in the air, speed-blitzed a highly trained zombie ninja and a street-level speedster, and wrecked an entire room of criminals armed with MP5s before. The most impressive agility feat for John is probably taking on a room full of Covenant Brutes, but he used some Brutes as cover to prevent himself from being shot.

In the strength department, John is probably in the 5-10 ton range, as he has consistently shown to be able to flip over Warthogs, which weighs around 3.25 tons. However, Kaine has completely crushed a Hummer simply by jumping from a tall height. If that's not enough, he's broken through chains specially designed by Jackal to withstand Peter's peak strength (which is around 20 plus tons). That puts him over and above the 30 ton range. Not even Covenant Brutes rival that type of physical output, and they have given John trouble in a match of might before.

Chief has actually dodged bullets at point blank range out of armor, and has dodged hails of bullets while in armor. As far as strength goes Chief would be closer to the 15 ton range since he's able to flip tanks. Some Spartans have also demonstrated the strength to pick up Mongooses and use them as weapons, and even block a Brutes hammer with their fist alone. Brutes have never really caused Chief a problem outside of games either. I'll admit Kaine has impressive feats, but I doubt he'll be able to handle Chief along with two others.

Avatar image for shazamfan666
#21 Edited by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for lixvari
#22 Posted by lixvari (124 posts) - - Show Bio

I've already went

Avatar image for cjdavis103
#23 Edited by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

this seams to be the bad thing of having 3 debater sin this fight

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#24 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Just wanna say this is a great opener for your first CaV @lixvari. Shots have been fired!

Now, moving onto the debate itself...

I see what you're saying about Kaine's resistance to bullets, but I doubt he's ever been pierced by one of the Halo Magnum. More specifically the M225. The pistol we see in the very first Halo game that tears through Elites like their nothing more than paper. These pistols are loaded with 50 caliber, high explosive rounds, and I think that's something that Kaine won't be able to shrug off. Next is the MA5C. This assault rifle fires at 650 revolutions per minute. The rounds used are 7.62x51mm FMJ rounds. If Kaine gets hit by these at close range He will look like nothing more than Swiss Cheese.

Well to be honest Elites are nowhere near as durable as, say, even Captain America. The only reason the Sangheili's durability are even remotely near Chief's own durability is their shields, and even then the MJOLNIR armor shields are vastly superior to the Covenant shielding (the MJOLNIR MARK V armor's energy shielding was actually reverse-engineered from Jackal shields, hence their superiority). That being said, they were focused more on withstanding plasma fire and extreme temperatures rather than...excuse the expression...brute force. This explains why physical attacks and explosives have been more effective in taking out SPARTAN-II's. rather than the plasma fire themselves. Also, I don't remember any of the UNSC Magnums packing explosive rounds. The most powerful version was probably the Combat Evolved M6D Magnum, which packed no explosives whatsoever. The M6D Magnum is commonly stated by fans to be "over-powered" merely due to the game mechanics at the time. In the Halo novels, emptying an entire clip onto an Elite's shields wouldn't even falter its energy, or injure a Brute for that matter. Almost none of these bullets should actually hit Kaine by the way, as there is nothing hindering Kaine's speed like when he was worn down, already injured, and fighting Smithy on a speeding train. The MA5C Assault Rifle is impressive, yes, but I highly doubt it's going to be able to tag the Scarlet Spider. First of all, there's Kaine's webbing, which can either create a makeshift shield to protect him. And the webbing has a huge radius. And yes, it will stop even full metal jacket rounds if it has impeded giant, flaming, metal debris from an explosion. That is, if he even needs the webbing. He could just dash behind the plentiful cover given in the battlefield.

No Caption Provided

Next is Kaine's own reaction speed. He's vastly faster than Master Chief IMO. Sure, John has evaded point-blank shots (nothing Scarlet Spider can't do) out of armor, but that's just a single bullet. John has more difficulty dodging an entire onslaught of bullets. In fact, on his first mission after getting his augmentations (out of armor), John was the only one that was hit by a bullet. Granted he did it by pushing away Sam, Kaine as done the same feat without being tagged. You can compare the two.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

On top of that, agility is a huge factor in this fight as well. Chief, as gifted and fast as he is, isn't anywhere near agile as The Scarlet Spider. Kaine could jump around and crawl around the entire arena and outrace the bullets as much as he wants, outmaneuvering the entire team while webbing them up. But what about SPARTAN-II's in the MJOLNIR MARK V armor? Well to be blunt, the MJOLNIR and MJOLNIR MARK V armors are exactly the same in terms of reaction speed, excluding Cortana amping the neural connections of course. Anyways, Master Chief is fast, but he's consistently been tagged by opponents several notches slower than Kaine. For example, the entire SPARTAN-II Blue Team take on two Hunters and are practically manhandled at first. Not only does John get knocked back several feet, but James-005 gets blasted point-blank by the plasma cannon shot.

No Caption Provided

If you don't mind, I'm also going to exploit this scan even further. I'm aware that the MJOLNIR armor doesn't have any energy shields, so that's not the point I'm about to make. The point is, plasma cannon fire burned right through the titanium plating, whereas Kaine has tanked full-power blasts from both Red Death and Candra and got back up in no time. It didn't even get through his costume, which as regenerative abilities itself.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Yeah. Kaine is extremely durable. I don't see anything Chief packs being anything more than an annoyance.

Hmm as far as I know I've never read or seen a single Spartan II fall to a mere energy sword. Except in the video games, and thats only if you get hit. Now Spartan III's are a different story, but even they can keep moving after being stabbed by a energy sword. Plus what we also have to remember that the reason that those energy swords are so lethal is because of how hot they are which when stabbed into the body burn all of the targets innards and cauterizes the wound. As far as a regular blade being stabbed through any Spartan II will tank it. Even the III's wouldn't have a problem with it. The webbing would most likely not even really effect the shield. As some bullets don't even register to its shield which is seen during the Chief's first run through with the armor. However a Hunter's shield may damage a spartans shield, but what you have to remember is that it is made of the same alloy as the Covenant's ship. It also weighs two tons, and is being swung by a alien that weighs over 10 thousand pounds, and can exert at least double that when swinging it's shield. Plus will Kaine even be able to tag Chief? Chief's reaction time out of armor is 20 milliseconds, and is even faster when he is in the armor. Chief can even run at 34 mph without armor, and in armor at up to 65 Mph and that was with a torn tendon.

Any SPARTAN-II or SPARTAN-III would instantly be killed by an Energy Sword. Emile was impaled rather easily, and from what I saw from the game the energy shields of their armor were pretty much the same as MJOLNIR MARK V energy shields. Then, there's Linda-058 who was also clinically deceased for a pretty long time during/after Fall of Reach, and was only revived around the events of Ghosts of Onyx. From what is seen below, Linda was pretty much dead the moment the blade struck her body.

No Caption Provided

An ordinary blade wouldn't effect the MARK V's energy shields much at all, but with 30 tons of striking force, I'd beg to differ. If an Energy Sword with only 1-5 tons of force at maximum can penetrate their energy shields, Kaine's stingers will do the job perfectly fine. Remember that Spider-Man is around a 20-25 tonner, and Kaine is by far above that. He's nearly knocked out Superior Spider-Man in a single hit. If 50mm bullets can drop Chief's shields to half, I think Scarlet Spider has the sufficient strength to completely dwindle it.

No Caption Provided

I already know the webs won't really effect the energy shields themselves, although it is a possibility since the energy shielding is extremely thin so that the SPARTAN-II's can properly wield their weaponry and operative equipment. My main point though, was that Kaine's punches and stingers should be able to drop John's shields in no time so that the webbing can just wrap him up. As seen above, bullets definitely have an impact on John's shields. As for the Hunter's huge shield, I'm sticking with two tons, as Kurt-051 himself has stated it.

No Caption Provided

Even if I do double the shield's weight, that's only four tons. Tripling it is still only six tons of force. Clearly, Kaine's hits should be able to inflict of damage to the energy shields. And yes, Scarlet Spider should be able to tag Master Chief. While he doesn't have exact numbers, there is the phrase: actions speak louder than words. Kaine's feats of dodging, speed, and agility are immensely more impressive than any of the feats John has accomplished in the same category. If you want me to post scans of him easily dodging gun-fire just tell me in your next post. For running speed, I don't think it's that relevant. Plus, like I posted in my opener, a single jump from Kaine outraced shotgun shells, dodged point-blank sniper shots, blitzed an entire room full of goons wielding MP5s, and more. The shotgun shells alone go at around 500 miles per hour. On top of that web-swinging should increase Kaine's travel speed tremendously.

Chief has actually dodged bullets at point blank range out of armor, and has dodged hails of bullets while in armor. As far as strength goes Chief would be closer to the 15 ton range since he's able to flip tanks. Some Spartans have also demonstrated the strength to pick up Mongooses and use them as weapons, and even block a Brutes hammer with their fist alone. Brutes have never really caused Chief a problem outside of games either. I'll admit Kaine has impressive feats, but I doubt he'll be able to handle Chief along with two others.

John has only dodged single-shots from handguns and stun-shots from exoskeleton armors at point-blank range IIRC. He probably could dodge rapid-fire at point-blank range, but he usually lets his energy shields absorb the damage instead. I'll give an example where Chief was overwhelmed by how many plasma bolts there were.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Although John was still conscious after enduring all that damage, it validates the fact that Chief's speed and agility isn't up to Kaine's league. Not only does Scarlet Spider's agility allow him to have simply leap over the hail of bolts, but he could have dodged them as well (again, if you want more feats just say so in your next post). As far as strength goes, I've never seen the SPARTAN-II's lift anywhere near fifteen tons. In fact, SPARTAN-II's can lift around three times their own weight, and even assuming that is referring to them in the MJOLNIR MARK V armor, John weighs merely 995 pounds. 995 times 3 is only 2985 pounds, which converted into tons is a measly 1.4925 ton(s). This means flipping over UNSC Warthogs and similar vehicles are probably the SPARTAN-II's upper limit. I've never seen any SPARTAN-II catch a Gravity Hammer or use a Mongoose as a weapon in the canon Halo Universe before. You do know the Gravity Hammer emits gravitational shock-waves, which should kill SPARTAN-II's instantly (as seen in the video games)? There's no way they should be able to actually catch it and survive, or at least be knocked back a fairly long distance. I agree that Brutes don't pose much of a problem for Master Chief. In fact, he killed dozens of them by himself when he was going after one of the Prophets. However, in terms of strength, a Brute has given John trouble before. Yes, he had just taken an fairly long dive and his energy shields weren't properly functioning, the latter doesn't effect his physical might. Even without the high impact, I doubt John would be able to effortlessly manhandle a Brute. Kaine on the other hand, would smash a Brute's head in with a single punch.

No Caption Provided

Another point I forgot to make, Chief's actual visor can be effected by the webbing. Given the knowledge that the energy shielding's thickness is extremely thin, the webbing would latch onto the shields (like a plasma grenade), and cover John's vision. Sure, he can still use the radar, but the effectiveness of that is definitely less than just being able to see. And the thing is he can do this with the entire team, like so.

It actually pains me to say this but the Master Chief is going down.

Avatar image for shazamfan666
#25 Posted by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Okay, here's my opening counterpost. I don't know how to split a quote like Lixvari did, so I will just do this.

"Don't know much about this guy to be honest. All I know is he's a fairly formidable hand-to-hand combatant, has limited manipulation over wind, and a sword that can create a tornado. However, Kaine has fought against the Rangers before, which are Houston's premiere superhero team. One of the members is The Texas Twister, who is basically a man-tornado, and he pretty much humiliated the entire team."

Rai's standard equipment includes two swords that can create tornadoes, the Sword of the Storm and the Blade of the Nebula, and the latter is boosted by his Elemental Shen Gong Wu, the Crest of the Condor. In 2:18 of this video, Raimundo uses his blade and crest to destroy a whole construction site.

"Also to note, in Scan 4 above, Kaine dodges both electric and fire based elemental attacks. Anyways, Kaine isn't going to be really surprised with wind-based attacks. Oh, and Raimundo isn't going to be able to use any of his sword techniques if he's all webbed up. Even if he does manage to create wind-based attacks, I doubt a force of a small tornado (that might also be a downside if it will also interfere with your own team's progress) is going to do much to Scarlet Spider when he's felt punches from Bruiser, who has scuffled with The Hulk himself, and endured a severe beating from Kraven without even being knocked out. That, and an explosion of Mammon, an entity of pure energy, and a nuclear plant simultaneously, and walked out fine."

Raimundo should be able to dodge any webs, I'll talk about his agility a bit later. As I've said, Raimundo destroyed a construction site, and in 12:50 here, Raimundo launches his own aimed cyclone without any Shen Gong Wu or Wudai Weapons.

"Next is speed. I highly doubt Raimundo has the agility and raw swiftness to keep up with Scarlet Spider, who, when actually trying, can easily outpace Superior Spider-Man, Kraven, and highly trained Assassin Guild members. Now, in one of the videos I've seen you post as a feat for Raimundo, he clearly gets tagged numerous times by characters kaine would have no problem evading, as well as similar attacks."

Starting in 16:30 of this video, Raimundo dodges a mass of vines that the other monks are unable to dodge, proving he has the highest agility. I'm not going to show you every single agility feat of all the monks, but I'll just say this: 17:00. And in that video you're referring to, Raimundo attacks all 4 of the enemies while they're motionless, proving his extreme speed.

"The Xiaolin Warrior doesn't even use most of his infamous wind-based attacks until after he's taken a pretty hefty beating from the numerous opponents he's facing. Add that to the fact that those chumps seem infinitely slower and less physically able than The Scarlet Spider, and I think Raimundo should be subtracted from this equation rather quickly. If Kaine decides to use his stingers, Raimundo is dead meat. Does Raimundo have any feats of durability? How about 30 tons? I highly doubt so. The enemies that Raimundo has difficulty fighting are nothing compared to what Kaine goes through. That giant clawed beast Omi had trouble taking down? Kaine has the strength to literally remove its jaw."

Two of the villains Raimundo was fighting (and defeated) were Wuya and Chase. And I'll tell you that they are far, far more powerful than any villain Kaine has ever faced.

I've shown Raimundo flying using Wudai Star-Wind, so he can dodge Kaine's stingers or anything else he plans to do.

"I'm fairly confident from what I've shown so far that Kaine should take this handily."

He can't.

Avatar image for nighthunder
#26 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#27 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Rai's standard equipment includes two swords that can create tornadoes, the Sword of the Storm and the Blade of the Nebula, and the latter is boosted by his Elemental Shen Gong Wu, the Crest of the Condor. In 2:18 of this video, Raimundo uses his blade and crest to destroy a whole construction site.

That's impressive, but the entire technique took an entire three seconds to pull off, and the tornado was extremely thin. For one, three seconds is enough time for a bullet to hit a person, so Kaine, being above a bullet-timer, could either knock out Raimundo or web his mouth so he can't use his weapon in that given time. Second, the tornado had very little area of effect, and only managed to take out three minions. Kaine has evaded energy blasts that are a lot wider and potent in destructive capability, while he was already injured from a previous blast that caught him off guard (he was fighting an entire army of assassins with Wolverine).

No Caption Provided

Lastly, it didn't look like the small tornado collapsed the entire construction site by sheer power alone. To me it seemed like it knocked some pillars out of order, causing a domino effect. Kaine could easily do the same if he just used his webbing and pulled off some of the components, especially considering how wide the webbing can go.

Raimundo should be able to dodge any webs, I'll talk about his agility a bit later. As I've said, Raimundo destroyed a construction site, and in 12:50 here, Raimundo launches his own aimed cyclone without any Shen Gong Wu or Wudai Weapons.

Nice feat, but it's nothing Kaine hasn't tanked before. Like I posted in my opener, Kaine shrugged off an explosion from an entity of pure energy (which the entire Rangers team couldn't take out) and a nuclear plant at close range, and saved a person at the same time. A tornado isn't going to stop the Scarlet Spider from defeating Raimundo, or your team for that matter. That cyclone also didn't seem to even be able to destroy that small Raimundo robot, let alone a character of this caliber, who consistently tanks punches from 25 tonners plus. The wind attacks just don't have the power, speed, or range/area of effect to cause much damage to Kaine here.

Starting in 16:30 of this video, Raimundo dodges a mass of vines that the other monks are unable to dodge, proving he has the highest agility. I'm not going to show you every single agility feat of all the monks, but I'll just say this: 17:00. And in that video you're referring to, Raimundo attacks all 4 of the enemies while they're motionless, proving his extreme speed.

Nothing Kaine can't duplicate in my opinion. Scarlet Spider has fought two different opponents wielding symbiotes before: Agent Venom and Carnage, who both use vine-like tendrils, and did extremely well against them. He's also dodged point-blank bullets and energy blasts, which I consider a lot faster than mere vines. The second feat I don't really see much of an agility feat. All I see is Omi hanging onto Dojo with spikes crashing down near him. He dodged maybe one or two at most, which is nowhere near evading an entire onslaught of bullets. And if you want to see team-wrecking, Kaine does it right without taking a single hit, with enemies more impressive than the ones the Xiaolin Warrior fought against.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Also Scan 2 is what I see happening to Raimundo. Kaine blitzes him before he can use his sword effectively. Harvester is also extremely fast in his own right too, and managed to catch Kaine off guard at first, so he's no slouch.

Two of the villains Raimundo was fighting (and defeated) were Wuya and Chase. And I'll tell you that they are far, far more powerful than any villain Kaine has ever faced.

I've shown Raimundo flying using Wudai Star-Wind, so he can dodge Kaine's stingers or anything else he plans to do.

Can you show me feats for defeating Wuya and Chase? I'm also pretty sure Scarlet Spider would wreck the both of them since his speed is vastly superior to the villains. Also, they may have weaknesses specifically associated with wind manipulation and the like, so it doesn't really apply to Kaine. I see Mammon beating both Wuya and Chase Young at the same time, yet Kaine was able to hold the entity off and outsmart it. Scarlet Spider's durability, speed, and strength have overcome great odds before, and enabled him to take on entire teams of enemies before. This shouldn't be any different.

"I'm fairly confident from what I've shown so far that Kaine should take this handily."

He can't.

WRONG!

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for nighthunder
#28 Edited by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio

Uzumaki is a formidable opponent, sure, but in my opinion, he lacks the durability and offensive output to put down Scarlet Spider for the count. For one, he has never endured anywhere near 30 tons of force flying into his face. He's also just a kid. Also, in a neutral fight outside of his own universe, without PIS to protect him, he won't keep getting up after he gets knocked out with some epic speech about not giving up. On the other hand, Kaine's durability far exceeds Naruto's own (this also links in to how Uzumaki doesn't have enough offensive output to defeat Scarlet Spider). I know you're going to start giving examples of Naruto's numerous jutsus and their destructive capability, but I'm going to have to stop you right there. For one, I know you're probably going to use the ninja's Clone Jutsu. Upon analysis, I've come to the conclusion that that particular technique, performed by a more mature and experienced Naruto, consumes more than a couple seconds to actually create the clones. Kaine on the other hand, has simultaneously dodged and outraced bullets with absolute ease, out of costume

Leeet me stop you right there, See while i does take more than a couple seconds to create clones for the older naruto, thats because he tends to be in sage mode which consumes more chakra and the fact he's creating many more clones than pre-ship naruto. Pre-shippuden naruto however isn't using sage mode thus all he has to do is put his hands together and make clones appear. And dodging bullets is certainly impressive however, the bullets were heading at him in a straightline, unlike the clones who can manuver around hits and are swarming him from each direction

No Caption Provided

On average, most shotgun shells travel at over 500 miles per hour at the close range depicted in the scan above (the upper range is around 700-1000 miles per hour). That's insanely fast! I don't see Naruto being able to pull off any type of jutsu before being speed blitzed and taken care of. On top of that, none of the Uzumaki's projectiles, such as kunai should be able to effectively tag Scarlet Spider in order to injure him or as a catalyst to another event/technique/jutsu. As far as I know, bullets far outrace any kunai, even thrown by an expert and enhanced by anime physics. Even if Kaine is distracted battling your other teammates, he's caught an arrow from behind and dodged pistol shots from members of the Assassins Guild before.

Well again its easier to dodge something moving fast in a straightline than something moving at you from all directions ; up down sideways, right left ect.. Not to mention that reactions speeds and not traverse speeds. But to be honest the whole thing is moot-point as the blue team is starting a ways away from kaine, giving naruto plenty of time to preform an technique that only requires him to put his hands together into a sign. So while kain is taking out naruto clones left and right, the real naruto is somewhere around there using rasengan behind a un-suspecting kaine who's already pre-occupied with tons of naruto's. And before you post a scan of him reacting to something while pre-occupied, he's not occupied with just 1 naruto clone, but dozens.

On top of all this, Kaine has experience fighting ninjas. Naruto, despite his new gimmicks, shouldn't be too much of a problem. If he tries to use Rasengan, which takes a considerable amount of time and energy to use, Kaine can just use hiswebbing to make a protective barrier between him and Uzumaki. Keep in mind that Scarlet Spider's webbing is natural, unlike Spider-Man's, so it has a near infinite supply. It's also more durable than steel. This is not to mention Kaine has experience with attacks similar to the Rasengan. On the off chance that Naruto successfully makes Ninja clones, that also shouldn't be much of a problem since an entire group of Hand Ninjas fell to Kaine in two pages, and he fought a fairly dangerous zombie ninja and blitzed him with ease.

All, very, very intersting. Well first of all, he won't see now know where the real naruto is, all he'll be focused on is taking out this group of about 100 naruto's so he'll be totally un-prepared for the rasengan which if he turns around and tries to dodge,a naruto clone will get him from behind. And the rasengan doesn't take along time to use and even if it did, with scarlet being busy and whatnot he'll have plenty of time to use something that easily busted a hole in solid steel

No Caption Provided

So...no that weebing isn't going to do nada to naruto and his group of clones

Exactly how durable is Kaine?

I also wanted to further analyze the set of scans above. To start, the first scan clearly states that he was tagged numerous times by similar weaponry that the Narutoverse characters often carry in their arsenal. Well, despite those injuries, Kaine is perfectly fine the next scan. Next, in the second scan, the Scarlet Spider is able to dodge a certain attack that functions similarly to Naruto's own Rasengan, so I don't think that particular jutsu is going to be too much trouble for my combatant to take care of. If that's not enough validation, he can just web Naruto's feet and make him trip on his own attack.

Except the fact that naruto is a trained ninja and isn't going to just walk straight up to him and try to hit him with a rasengan. No, he'll be coming out of no-where the moment scarlet spider is pre-occupied. Webbing? lol he'll be more likely to web a clone than the actual naruto in all that chaos.

So basically,

match starts, naruto summoned his clones. Kaine tries and fights off the massive group of naruto's ,all aimed with standard ninja gear. The real naruto stays back and uses rasengan and through the chaos, whil kan is still fighting off the narutos

DON['FT REPLY

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#29 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder said:

Leeet me stop you right there, See while i does take more than a couple seconds to create clones for the older naruto, thats because he tends to be in sage mode which consumes more chakra and the fact he's creating many more clones than pre-ship naruto. Pre-shippuden naruto however isn't using sage mode thus all he has to do is put his hands together and make clones appear. And dodging bullets is certainly impressive however, the bullets were heading at him in a straightline, unlike the clones who can manuver around hits and are swarming him from each direction

No Caption Provided

Regardless, the time needed to create clones is a bit much for an opponent as fast as Scarlet Spider. On top of that, it's not really in Naruto's character to immediately use the clone jutsu IIRC. A second thing, all the clones are pretty much weak fodder. They all disappear in a single hit into mist/clouds, and Kaine would pick up on that and realize they're decoys. He wouldn't just stay there and fight opponents that are seemingly made of nothing. His webbing should be able to deal with all the Naruto clones should they even be able to be generated at that rate (remember, the webbing covered the span of an entire street, and was durable enough to withstand giant debris). Here's an example of webbing incapacitating countless Assassin's Guild members.

No Caption Provided

On top of that, Kaine has consistently fought teams and mobs of enemies and won through his strength, speed, and durability. Other examples include defeating Hand Ninjas, holding off an entire horde of Carnage's "children", who are a lot more formidable opponents, and crushing various criminal gangs in a span of 1-2 weeks. Kaine isn't getting overwhelmed here by the sheer efficiency of his webbing alone. He's also far too durable to be actually injured by physical attacks from Naruto (the clones usually only punch and kick).

Well again its easier to dodge something moving fast in a straightline than something moving at you from all directions ; up down sideways, right left ect.. Not to mention that reactions speeds and not traverse speeds. But to be honest the whole thing is moot-point as the blue team is starting a ways away from kaine, giving naruto plenty of time to preform an technique that only requires him to put his hands together into a sign. So while kain is taking out naruto clones left and right, the real naruto is somewhere around there using rasengan behind a un-suspecting kaine who's already pre-occupied with tons of naruto's. And before you post a scan of him reacting to something while pre-occupied, he's not occupied with just 1 naruto clone, but dozens.

That's true, but when have you seen Kaine be defeated because there were enemies from all angles? Kaine's reaction speed is above bullets, which is a heck of a lot more than I can speak for Uzumaki. Sure, the Blue Team starts a fair distance away from Scarlet Spider, but that's where the travel speed comes in. Kaine is quick enough to make it to your team's location at a moment's notice and take out your team before they pose too much a threat with your clones. Master Chief being on your team doesn't help your chances either, since his radar will most likely track Scarlet Spider's initial location, and your team will start heading to my character's location. Once they meet up, Kaine could blitz your entire team before they can do anything (mainly creating clones in this instance). One shot of webbing could take down Naruto for the entire fight.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As you can see above, Kaine is injured from a sword wound via Harvester, and gets thrown by Flower into a concrete wall. However, he still manages to dodge the full-speed blow, comparable and extremely similar to Naruto's own Rasengan attack. I see no reason why Kaine wouldn't be able to dodge any surprise ambushes by the real Uzumaki. Again, this is if Kaine has to fight these clones for an extended period of time. Add that to the fact that they have never endured a punch from a 30-tonner plus and the clones get reduced to mist after a single blow, revealing to The Scarlet Spider that they are not in fact real enemies. From there on, he quickly dispatches them and moves on.

All, very, very intersting. Well first of all, he won't see now know where the real naruto is, all he'll be focused on is taking out this group of about 100 naruto's so he'll be totally un-prepared for the rasengan which if he turns around and tries to dodge,a naruto clone will get him from behind. And the rasengan doesn't take along time to use and even if it did, with scarlet being busy and whatnot he'll have plenty of time to use something that easily busted a hole in solid steel

No Caption Provided

So...no that weebing isn't going to do nada to naruto and his group of clones

Exactly how durable is Kaine?

I already covered how Kaine should be able to take care of a horde of clones if he has to, and how the chances of the clones being generated is pretty low, so I'll move on to the other points. A Naruto clone getting Kaine from behind to subdue him? Please. Not even ten Naruto clones would be able to keep Kaine down. The guy is a 30 tonner. According to the Naruto Wiki, Uzumaki in Part One is only around 88 pounds. A single ton is a whopping 2,000 pounds. Let's do a little calculation shall we?

1 ton = 2,000 pounds

Naruto = 88 pounds

Kaine's strength = 30 tons

30 tons = 60,000 pounds

60,000/80 = 750

It would take about 750 Naruto's to overwhelm Kaine in sheer numbers due to their combined weight. That's even if the clones weigh anything given the fact that they are seemingly mist, and a mere jutsu, not actual replicas of Naruto. It's just not going to happen. Kaine is not going to be pinned down. Even if Uzumaki comes at Kaine with an attack that is a funnel of a certain element channeled by a specific enemy, Scarlet Spider has faced an attack pretty much exactly like that and had his own...creative way of countering it.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

As you can see, not only can Kaine attack and web at the same time, but the webbing is shown to be able to withstand extreme temperatures, much like the previous example. Even if Naruto manages to breach through the webbing, the area breached will really only be the Rasengan technique, which isn't enough. The remaining webbing is still enough to ensnare Uzumaki's arms, legs, chest, etc. etc. His group of clones isn't an exception. For Kaine's durability, I'm confident he can actually tank the Rasengan attack itself. One of his best durability feats is enduring full-strength blows from Superior Spider-Man (20+ tonner) without any problem, and nearly dropping SpOck in one hit.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Yeah. I don't see Naruto taking down Scarlet Spider.

Except the fact that naruto is a trained ninja and isn't going to just walk straight up to him and try to hit him with a rasengan. No, he'll be coming out of no-where the moment scarlet spider is pre-occupied. Webbing? lol he'll be more likely to web a clone than the actual naruto in all that chaos.

So basically,

match starts, naruto summoned his clones. Kaine tries and fights off the massive group of naruto's ,all aimed with standard ninja gear. The real naruto stays back and uses rasengan and through the chaos, whil kan is still fighting off the narutos

DON['FT REPLY

It really doesn't matter what distance he is at when he initiates the Rasengan attack. The simple fact is once he is close to Kaine and tries to tag him, he'll find himself either web-slipped, entrapped in Kaine's webbing, or outright dodged and smacked him the face. Pre-occupation is nothing for Kaine when he has the fought entire teams (Assassin's Guild task force, X-Men, Mutated Spiders, and more) and prevailed. That, and his web-slip feat was when he was blitzing an entire team. Webbing a clone? That's good. He'll most likely web an entire horde of clones in a heartbeat and move on to the actual opponents. Web the actual Naruto? Good. One opponent down. Two to go.

So basically:

Match starts. Kaine quickly races to the opponent team (faster so with Chief leading the trio to Kaine's location), webs them and any clones present up, and continues to speed blitz.

Not sure what the "don't reply" is for. Oh well, it's been a day and it seems that you were pretty much done with your entry. Anyways, @lixvari and @shazamfan666, do you guys want to reply again or do you want to open voting?

Avatar image for nighthunder
#30 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#31 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for shazamfan666
#32 Posted by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Not ready yet, here's my second post.

"That's impressive, but the entire technique took an entire three seconds to pull off, and the tornado was extremely thin. For one, three seconds is enough time for a bullet to hit a person, so Kaine, being above a bullet-timer, could either knock out Raimundo or web his mouth so he can't use his weapon in that given time. Second, the tornado had very little area of effect, and only managed to take out three minions. Kaine has evaded energy blasts that are a lot wider and potent in destructive capability, while he was already injured from a previous blast that caught him off guard (he was fighting an entire army of assassins with Wolverine)."

No one ever said it was a tornado, it was a simple slicing projectile. And if Kaine webs his mouth, Rai can just cut the web with one of the two swords he wields. But by the time Kaine realizes that Rai activates his weapons by speaking, it's going to be too late. Kaine can't knock Raimundo out, in Time After Time, Rai survived much more than just a simple punch. A multitude of gargoyles, being smacked by 10 arms, even a massive rock slide. Now, no one's to say the projectile couldn't take out more than three minions. It reached the ground, so it could have taken out much more. Now I've shown Jack Spicer use the SotS to create a much larger tornado, so let's see Kaine dodging that. And it will not interfere with Naruto or Master Chief, as it didn't affect the other monks or Clay's dad at all.

"Lastly, it didn't look like the small tornado collapsed the entire construction site by sheer power alone. To me it seemed like it knocked some pillars out of order, causing a domino effect. Kaine could easily do the same if he just used his webbing and pulled off some of the components, especially considering how wide the webbing can go."

Even if that is so, Rai still made the entire site shake all at once, proving the force of his projectiles. And tornadoes are more powerful than that slice.

"Nice feat, but it's nothing Kaine hasn't tanked before. Like I posted in my opener, Kaine shrugged off an explosion from an entity of pure energy (which the entire Rangers team couldn't take out) and a nuclear plant at close range, and saved a person at the same time. A tornado isn't going to stop the Scarlet Spider from defeating Raimundo, or your team for that matter. That cyclone also didn't seem to even be able to destroy that small Raimundo robot, let alone a character of this caliber, who consistently tanks punches from 25 tonners plus. The wind attacks just don't have the power, speed, or range/area of effect to cause much damage to Kaine here."

In 18:20 to 19:25 of this video, Rai easily dodges Hannibal, hurts him using just his fists, hurts him again using a fist made from wind (that smashed a large crater in a mountain afterwards), shows enough strength to hold up his jaw, and two Raimundos defeated him. Now, the second Raimundo is nothing the first one can't duplicate using two tornado-creating swords and a booster for one of them. I've proved the attacks' power and range. They might not be speedy, but I don't think Kaine can evade what Tubbimura did using the Sword of the Storm. He created winds that covered nearly the whole beach.

"Nothing Kaine can't duplicate in my opinion. Scarlet Spider has fought two different opponents wielding symbiotes before: Agent Venom and Carnage, who both use vine-like tendrils, and did extremely well against them. He's also dodged point-blank bullets and energy blasts, which I consider a lot faster than mere vines. The second feat I don't really see much of an agility feat. All I see is Omi hanging onto Dojo with spikes crashing down near him. He dodged maybe one or two at most, which is nowhere near evading an entire onslaught of bullets. And if you want to see team-wrecking, Kaine does it right without taking a single hit, with enemies more impressive than the ones the Xiaolin Warrior fought against."

But in that same video, in 18:00, he was attacked with the Thorn of Thunderbolt, it nearly hit him, but Rai still dodged it. It was about an inch away, but he didn't care. Also, that's my mistake, I wasn't very clear about Omi's feat. From 17:00 to 19:20, Omi ran through the rocky canyon, avoiding speedy fire, a lava flow, hopped large distances from rock to rock, and evaded Dojo the whole time. Omi also jumped out of the way before Dojo ate him, and ran away quickly. But Raimundo has proved faster and more agile than that. He can catch Kaine.

"Can you show me feats for defeating Wuya and Chase? I'm also pretty sure Scarlet Spider would wreck the both of them since his speed is vastly superior to the villains. Also, they may have weaknesses specifically associated with wind manipulation and the like, so it doesn't really apply to Kaine. I see Mammon beating both Wuya and Chase Young at the same time, yet Kaine was able to hold the entity off and outsmart it. Scarlet Spider's durability, speed, and strength have overcome great odds before, and enabled him to take on entire teams of enemies before. This shouldn't be any different."

I've already shown it. In the video you posted of Raimundo, in the spot you set it, Raimundo beat Wuya (the lady) and Chase Young (the lizard), while badly injured. It was with the Cannon Blaster+Wudai Star-Wind, but Rai's swords and crest will make up for the cannon. And no, Mammon would not wreck them. Did you read their powers? Elemental manipulation, teleportation, energy manipulation, telekinesis, time freezing, telepathy...the list goes on and on. Plus, they both have enhanced invulerability, speed, and strength. Neither of them have weaknesses to wind, it says Wuya survived the Sword of the Storm. And from 14:44 to 15:20, Chase displays his speed, and he deflects fire, earth, AND wind attacks with no problem.

"WRONG!"

is what you are.

Avatar image for nighthunder
#33 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#34 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for lixvari
#35 Posted by lixvari (124 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek sorry life got hectic for a bit. It's cool with me if you open up voting.

Also most of the things you said were true, except I only have a few final statements.

Any SPARTAN-II or SPARTAN-III would instantly be killed by an Energy Sword. Emile was impaled rather easily, and from what I saw from the game the energy shields of their armor were pretty much the same as MJOLNIR MARK V energy shields. Then, there's Linda-058 who was also clinically deceased for a pretty long time during/after Fall of Reach, and was only revived around the events ofGhosts of Onyx. From what is seen below, Linda was pretty much dead the moment the blade struck her body.

Yes emile died from the energy blade, but what you must realize like I said once it's inside the body it automatically burns all the organ's thanks to its heat. So the fact that even with his insides burning and dieing. Emile was able to kill two elite Zealots in his final moments. Linda on the other hand wasn't touched by a energy sword but instead blasted by multiple plasma rounds.

Although John was still conscious after enduring all that damage, it validates the fact that Chief's speed and agility isn't up to Kaine's league. Not only does Scarlet Spider's agility allow him to have simply leap over the hail of bolts, but he could have dodged them as well (again, if you want more feats just say so in your next post). As far as strength goes, I've never seen the SPARTAN-II's lift anywhere near fifteen tons. In fact, SPARTAN-II's can lift around three times their own weight, and even assuming that is referring to them in the MJOLNIR MARK V armor, John weighs merely 995 pounds. 995 times 3 is only 2985 pounds, which converted into tons is a measly 1.4925 ton(s). This means flipping over UNSC Warthogs and similar vehicles are probably the SPARTAN-II's upper limit. I've never seen any SPARTAN-II catch a Gravity Hammer or use a Mongoose as a weapon in the canon Halo Universe before. You do know the Gravity Hammer emits gravitational shock-waves, which should kill SPARTAN-II's instantly (as seen in the video games)? There's no way they should be able to actually catch it and survive, or at least be knocked back a fairly long distance. I agree that Brutes don't pose much of a problem for Master Chief. In fact, he killed dozens of them by himself when he was going after one of the Prophets. However, in terms of strength, a Brute has given John trouble before. Yes, he had just taken an fairly long dive and his energy shields weren't properly functioning, the latter doesn't effect his physical might. Even without the high impact, I doubt John would be able to effortlessly manhandle a Brute. Kaine on the other hand, would smash a Brute's head in with a single punch.

It's only three times there weight out of armor. In armor it's alot more. In the Cole Protocol novel we see a spartan pick up a mongoose with little effort and swing it around as a weapon. Yes I realize just how much damage a Gravity Hammer can do, but I'm willing to admit I'm not to sure on how valid the spartan blocking the gravity hammer was since it was in Halo Legends.

Another point I forgot to make, Chief's actual visor can be effected by the webbing. Given the knowledge that the energy shielding's thickness is extremely thin, the webbing would latch onto the shields (like a plasma grenade), and cover John's vision. Sure, he can still use the radar, but the effectiveness of that is definitely less than just being able to see. And the thing is he can do this with the entire team, like so.

Yes it would effect the visor originally, but if you remember Chief can effect how slippery his shield is so he could just make it so slippery to where the webbing would slide off. Yet you still have to remember it's 3 v 1. These are my final statements.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#36 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shazamfan666 said:

No one ever said it was a tornado, it was a simple slicing projectile. And if Kaine webs his mouth, Rai can just cut the web with one of the two swords he wields. But by the time Kaine realizes that Rai activates his weapons by speaking, it's going to be too late. Kaine can't knock Raimundo out, in Time After Time, Rai survived much more than just a simple punch. A multitude of gargoyles, being smacked by 10 arms, even a massive rock slide. Now, no one's to say the projectile couldn't take out more than three minions. It reached the ground, so it could have taken out much more. Now I've shown Jack Spicer use the SotS to create a much larger tornado, so let's see Kaine dodging that. And it will not interfere with Naruto or Master Chief, as it didn't affect the other monks or Clay's dad at all.

Kaine isn't going to just web someone's mouth. Every time Scarlet Spider utilizes his webbing, it either completely envelops the target in a funnel, or puts them in a position incapable of movement. This means no moving arms to use a weapon, like a sword to cut free. The only time I haven't seen Kaine do this is with larger opponents, and the instance with Beast and Iceman. Raimundo doesn't have to speak for Kaine to nonchalantly web him.

No Caption Provided

As you can see above, the moment Scarlet Spider sees any threats, he usually just webs them and moves on. I don't see Raimundo being an exception to this principle. Moving on, Kaine can knock Raimundo out. Not only does he have multiple methods of doing it (webbing him, punching him out, stabbing him, etc.), but he's physically capable of it too. Gargoyles, ten arms, and a rock-slide is nothing compared to 30 tons of striking power flying into your face. Chances are, if Superior Spider-Man is completely dazed and disorientated from a single hit from Kaine, it would knock out a a teenager.

Dodging a tornado? No problem. Seeing as their are plenty of fairly tall walls, Kaine can web-sling over them and avoid the attack with relative ease. Kaine has web-slinged the entire height of a building in no time, while holding a person with one arm.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Seeing as the wind-based attacks only last for a short period of time, it should wear off before Kaine even has to reach the top height of the walls. Meanwhile, your teammates will still be stuck down there with the tornado.

Even if that is so, Rai still made the entire site shake all at once, proving the force of his projectiles. And tornadoes are more powerful than that slice.

I already covered why Kaine would easily avoid tornadoes, but I fail to see the projectiles being that much of a factor here. The entire site shaking won't effect Kaine in the slightest, and he'll easily dodge the attack accordingly.

In 18:20 to 19:25 of this video, Rai easily dodges Hannibal, hurts him using just his fists, hurts him again using a fist made from wind (that smashed a large crater in a mountain afterwards), shows enough strength to hold up his jaw, and two Raimundos defeated him. Now, the second Raimundo is nothing the first one can't duplicate using two tornado-creating swords and a booster for one of them. I've proved the attacks' power and range. They might not be speedy, but I don't think Kaine can evade what Tubbimura did using the Sword of the Storm. He created winds that covered nearly the whole beach.

I wouldn't say that Raimundo was easily dodging Hannibal's attacks at all. There are multiple instances where he is definitely not at ease. I'll do a little breakdown.

  • At 18:23 Raimundo jumps away from an attack but is screaming, falling, and confused.
  • At 18:33 Raimundo is tagged and grabbed in a tight, firm grip.
  • At 18:50 Raimundo after is yet again tagged and trapped in a snake-like tongue.

That alone proves that Kaine has a huge chance of simply webbing up Raimundo and his teammates, preventing them from moving at all to use any type of spells, jutsus, techniques, etc. etc. Another thing is that the fight takes place in Raimundo's dreams, so it isn't 100% applicable to this particular fight, nor is it 100% reliable as a straight-out feat. Another thing is the giant wind fist. While impressive, I doubt it will take down Scarlet Spider for the count. For one, that attack didn't seem to concentrate on the particular opponent as much as it was distributed across the mountain, hence the wind merely hitting Hannibal, then spreading around him. Second, Kaine has taken multiple 20+ ton punches from an enraged SpOck that probably wasn't holding back (putting him in the upper 20 ton range) without a single problem, a punch from Bruiser, who has held his own against Hulk himself, and pages and pages of severe beatings from Kraven, a 10 tonner himself. This is all highly concentrated attacks all packed into a single punch, unlike the wind-based attacks Raimundo has, and is arguably more powerful physically than anything the Xiaolin Warrior packs. Strength-wise, holding up a jaw is nothing. After being confused from being transported to the Microverse, a tiny Kaine fights a giant amoeba, gets injured, then proceeds to rip its entire lower jaw off. Much more impressive if you ask me.

No Caption Provided

Onto another matter, even if Kaine can't dodge what Tubbimura dished out using the Sword of Storm, that isn't definitive proof that Raimundo is capable of replicating the same feat. Remember: the weapon is only what the man is. Now, let's assume that Rai has the power, skill, and experience needed to pull off the same exact technique that Tubbimura did, with the same efficiency and area of effect, I'd still highly doubt it would throw Kaine off his game (heh, that rhymed). Taken from the same fight, Kaine's jumping ability is incredible. Use the image below as a reference.

No Caption Provided

In the first panel, Kaine practically jumps the entire height of the amoeba with a single leap with minimal effort. If you want another angle/picture to scale how small Kaine is compared to the amoeba, click here.

In the second panel, it reveals even more of how high Kaine had jumped. Not only did he jump pretty much the entire height of the amoeba monster, but he jumped to the relative height of an entire mountain. You can use the guy sitting in the forefront as a reference point. Clearly, this wind attacks are not going to be a problem for The Scarlet Spider to evade.

But in that same video, in 18:00, he was attacked with the Thorn of Thunderbolt, it nearly hit him, but Rai still dodged it. It was about an inch away, but he didn't care. Also, that's my mistake, I wasn't very clear about Omi's feat. From 17:00 to 19:20, Omi ran through the rocky canyon, avoiding speedy fire, a lava flow, hopped large distances from rock to rock, and evaded Dojo the whole time. Omi also jumped out of the way before Dojo ate him, and ran away quickly. But Raimundo has proved faster and more agile than that. He can catch Kaine.

Impressive, but I'd argue Kaine is faster than the Thorn of Thunderbolt. Another thing is that Raimundo's cockiness in battle, which he frequently shows, will be his downfall. There's a high chance that Raimundo won't care that Kaine is an inch away from him, try and dodge, and find out he isn't fast enough to pull it off. From there it's a simple knock-out for my man Kaine if he wants to get up close and personal. As for Omi's speed and agility feat, there are lots of factors hindering it down. For one, it's a bit too much ABC logic. Just because Raimundo managed to get through an array of vines while Omi couldn't, doesn't mean Raimundo could have done that same feat Omi did in that video. His cocky nature could have been his defeat at different times, while Omi is a lot more humble compared to Rai. Another thing is that Omi didn't really display that much combat speed at all. Most of the feats were more of travel speed. All Omi really did was leap from rock tower to rock tower, which isn't the same as dodging punches from Kaine. The lava flow feat isn't that impressive since Omi was merely launched from the pressure. He wasn't really dodging anything. Running through a canyon is nice but nothing Kaine can't replicate (better I might add with his web-swinging). Dojo chasing after him is a nice touch, but if Raimundo tried this, despite him supposedly faster and more agile than Omi, Kaine's superior speed would allow him to use his webbing to not only web Rai up, but to string up webs large enough to cut off his path. If any catching is going to be done, it certainly isn't going to be Kaine that is caught.

I've already shown it. In the video you posted of Raimundo, in the spot you set it, Raimundo beat Wuya (the lady) and Chase Young (the lizard), while badly injured. It was with the Cannon Blaster+Wudai Star-Wind, but Rai's swords and crest will make up for the cannon. And no, Mammon would not wreck them. Did you read their powers? Elemental manipulation, teleportation, energy manipulation, telekinesis, time freezing, telepathy...the list goes on and on. Plus, they both have enhanced invulerability, speed, and strength. Neither of them have weaknesses to wind, it says Wuya survived the Sword of the Storm. And from 14:44 to 15:20, Chase displays his speed, and he deflects fire, earth, AND wind attacks with no problem.

An injured Raimundo beating Wuya and Chase isn't up to par with Kaine being ambushed by an Assassin's Guild Task force and wrecking the entire team. And, as you stated yourself, it was with multiple amps, which in this fight, Rai doesn't have time to initiate. Elemental manipulation is useless against Mammon. There were multiple elemental-based heroes on the Rangers team that were thrown around by Mammon like ragdolls. Telepathy isn't useful in a fight against an entity of pure energy, telekinesis isn't a huge factor, energy manipulation isn't up to par enough to do much, and time freezing isn't impressive enough to effect Mammon.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11Gallery image 12Gallery image 13Gallery image 14

As you can see, elemental attacks (wind manipulation from, fire, and electric-based attacks) are completely futile against Mammon, and yet Kaine is able to outsmart and defeat the massive opponent. I doubt Raimundo would be able to combat such a powerful enemy. Chase deflecting elemental attacks isn't as impressive as Kaine defeating something that effortlessly shrugs off elemental attacks.

"WRONG!"

is what you are.

No Caption Provided

Kidding of course.

Avatar image for deathstroke19
#37 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#38 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@lixvari said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek sorry life got hectic for a bit. It's cool with me if you open up voting.

Yeah man you got that right. Just take it easy man. Life comes first.

Yes emile died from the energy blade, but what you must realize like I said once it's inside the body it automatically burns all the organ's thanks to its heat. So the fact that even with his insides burning and dieing. Emile was able to kill two elite Zealots in his final moments. Linda on the other hand wasn't touched by a energy sword but instead blasted by multiple plasma rounds.

While I agree with Emile's surprising durability, you can see it doesn't apply to every SPARTAN-III, let alone SPARTAN-II. And Linda did get stabbed right through her chest by an energy sword from an enraged Elite behind her. I posted a scan of it in my counter. I'll post it again.

No Caption Provided

IIRC in Fall of Reach she was practically rendered into a coma from multiple overloaded plasma bolts right? I think that may be the source of the confusion here. Nonetheless, if it happened in the graphic novel adaptation, it shows that even SPARTAN-II's can instantly drop from being impaled with an Energy Sword. John isn't an exception.

It's only three times there weight out of armor. In armor it's alot more. In the Cole Protocol novel we see a spartan pick up a mongoose with little effort and swing it around as a weapon. Yes I realize just how much damage a Gravity Hammer can do, but I'm willing to admit I'm not to sure on how valid the spartan blocking the gravity hammer was since it was in Halo Legends.

Still, my point remains. Their strength is nothing compared to the 30 tons of sheer physical might that Kaine wields (this is at rest by the way). Yet again a UNSC Mongoose only weighs at average 896 pounds, which isn't even a single ton. If the Gravity Hammer lost the gravity part of its function, I would absolutely agree that a SPARTAN-II is capable of parrying and deflecting an over-sized mallet thrown by a Brute. However, it isn't up to par with Kaine's strength. Also I should add that multiple parts of Halo Legends isn't canon, albeit I can't remember which specific chapters. I do for a fact can confirm that the bit with the Arbiter soloing an entire army of Covenant is non-canon though. Thanks for reminding me about The Cole Protocol though. I have it sitting on my shelf right next to me but I haven't read it in years.

Yes it would effect the visor originally, but if you remember Chief can effect how slippery his shield is so he could just make it so slippery to where the webbing would slide off. Yet you still have to remember it's 3 v 1. These are my final statements.

Do you have any evidence for Chief effecting how slippery his shields are? I don't remember anything like this. Regardless it should envelop John's teammates, and even if the supersoldier does get out of the webs, its a solo match between Scarlet Spider and Master Chief, which, even with his luck, is too much for him to handle. I am also aware of the three versus one concept, but my original point was that the webbing was wide enough to trap the entire team, as it did cover the entire area of a street/distance between two different buildings.

Avatar image for shazamfan666
#39 Posted by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I'm ready for votes when everyone else is.

Avatar image for princearagorn1
#40 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty awesome.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#41 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shazamfan666@lixvari: Both of you are ready for votes, but @nighthunder is still pending. I believe he still has one rebuttal, so we'll wait for his response on the subject of voting before I officially start calling in Viners.

Avatar image for nighthunder
#42 Edited by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio

Regardless, the time needed to create clones is a bit much for an opponent as fast as Scarlet Spider. On top of that, it's not really in Naruto's character to immediately use the clone jutsu IIRC. A second thing, all the clones are pretty much weak fodder. They all disappear in a single hit into mist/clouds, and Kaine would pick up on that and realize they're decoys. He wouldn't just stay there and fight opponents that are seemingly made of nothing. His webbing should be able to deal with all the Naruto clones should they even be able to be generated at that rate (remember, the webbing covered the span of an entire street, and was durable enough to withstand giant debris). Here's an example of webbing incapacitating countless Assassin's Guild members.

Time needed? theres really no time needed to create that amount of clones, its simple as putting his hands together, signs and well you have clones. Next, while the cloned will disappear with a strong enough hit, they are capable of maneuvering and actual fighting. Next off, the clones would be everywhere not coming from a single direction, add in to the fact that they all have standard ninja gear means the webbing would only cover a certain amount of them. Also, there's generally no way for him to know which is the real naruto considering the only difference between them is that the clones are made up of chakra, but they both can still bleed etc.. they just cant take many hits. By the way, although its a little late mentioning this, any clones killed off, naruto can just remake considering his vast amount of energy and stamina.

On top of that, Kaine has consistently fought teams and mobs of enemies and won through his strength, speed, and durability. Other examples include defeating Hand Ninjas, holding off an entire horde of Carnage's "children", who are a lot more formidable opponents, and crushing various criminal gangs in a span of 1-2 weeks. Kaine isn't getting overwhelmed here by the sheer efficiency of his webbing alone. He's also far too durable to be actually injured by physical attacks from Naruto (the clones usually only punch and kick).

Say.....over 100 naruto ninja clones all armed is less powerful than a medium sized group of ninjas or a horde of carnage children? Also i think you under-estimating naruto a tiny bit here, regardless to the fact that they usually only punch kick ect. all the clones have the same strength as the original naruto, just not the durability, add this in with the sheer numbers and kaine is in trouble here

That's true, but when have you seen Kaine be defeated because there were enemies from all angles? Kaine's reaction speed is above bullets, which is a heck of a lot more than I can speak for Uzumaki. Sure, the Blue Team starts a fair distance away from Scarlet Spider, but that's where the travel speed comes in. Kaine is quick enough to make it to your team's location at a moment's notice and take out your team before they pose too much a threat with your clones. Master Chief being on your team doesn't help your chances either, since his radar will most likely track Scarlet Spider's initial location, and your team will start heading to my character's location. Once they meet up, Kaine could blitz your entire team before they can do anything (mainly creating clones in this instance). One shot of webbing could take down Naruto for the entire fight.

just...i...

First of all, naruto usually starts a fight by creating clones and i doubt kaines first instinct is to find us and kill naruto first. Next off, your seriously saying webbing could put naruto down? The rasengan alone could break the the webbing considering it busted steal/ not to mention naruto's taken getting cut through the shoulder

No Caption Provided

to even further disprove that when he goes kyuubi mode, which happens duringtimes of great stress or whatnot, in this case webbing, his speed will be faster than sound

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

here he's blitzing sasuke who reacted to sound attacks with relative ease.

meaning should he somehow find the real naruto and web him, and naruto's rasengan + clones fail, he could go into kyuubi mode and fairly easily rip off the webbing

As you can see above, Kaine is injured from a sword wound via Harvester, andgets thrown by Flower into a concrete wall. However, he still manages to dodge the full-speed blow, comparable and extremely similar to Naruto's own Rasengan attack. I see no reason why Kaine wouldn't be able to dodge any surprise ambushes by the real Uzumaki. Again, this is if Kaine has to fight these clones for an extended period of time. Add that to the fact that they have never endured a punch from a 30-tonner plus and the clones get reduced to mist after a single blow, revealing to The Scarlet Spider that they are not in fact real enemies. From there on, he quickly dispatches them and moves on.

  1. Busting concrete and blowing craters in steel are two different things
  2. if kaine is fighting of over 100 clones at once i see no reason as to why his rasengan won't hit from an ambush
  3. Lifting strength and striking strength are two different things buddy :p
  4. they are real enemies and i doubt he can defeat over 100 naruto's each with his own abilities " quickly "
  5. Even if he could, naruto can respawn them

I already covered how Kaine should be able to take care of a horde of clones if he has to, and how the chances of the clones being generated is pretty low, so I'll move on to the other points. A Naruto clone getting Kaine from behind to subdue him? Please. Not even ten Naruto clones would be able to keep Kaine down. The guy is a 30 tonner. According to the Naruto Wiki, Uzumaki in Part One is only around 88 pounds. A single ton is a whopping 2,000 pounds. Let's do a little calculation shall we?

1 ton = 2,000 pounds

Naruto = 88 pounds

Kaine's strength = 30 tons

30 tons = 60,000 pounds

60,000/80 = 750

whoah there buddy i hope you realize weight is different from durability right? The same applies to lifting and striking strength. Striking strength has to do with the massand speed of the punch, not the amount you can lift. and 10 naruto's? how about a couple 100? would that work?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It would take about 750 Naruto's to overwhelm Kaine in sheer numbers due to their combined weight. That's even if the clones weigh anything given the fact that they are seemingly mist, and a mere jutsu, not actual replicas of Naruto. It's just not going to happen. Kaine is not going to be pinned down. Even if Uzumaki comes at Kaine with an attack that is a funnel of a certain element channeled by a specific enemy, Scarlet Spider has faced an attack pretty much exactly like that and had his own...creative way of countering it.

already explained weight has nothing to do with durability in naruto's case.

And no, the clones are actual naruto's, their just made of chakra so a sufficient forcewill cause them to.." poof"

As you can see, not only can Kaine attack and web at the same time, but the webbing is shown to be able to withstand extreme temperatures, much like the previous example. Even if Naruto manages to breach through the webbing, the area breached will really only be the Rasengan technique, which isn't enough. The remaining webbing is still enough to ensnare Uzumaki's arms, legs, chest, etc. etc. His group of clones isn't an exception. For Kaine's durability, I'm confident he can actually tank the Rasengan attack itself. One of his best durability feats is enduring full-strength blows from Superior Spider-Man (20+ tonner) without any problem, and nearly dropping SpOck in one hit.

amazing really. However the area breached will be more than enough to bust naruto out of the web cocoon.

No Caption Provided

thats what a beginner naruto rasengan could do, already enough to break him out of webbing, let alone if he were to get angry and go kyuubi.

and not saying the scans not impressive, it is, but again lifting /=/= striking. Being a 20 toner doesn't matter if your hits aren't that effective.

Yeah. I don't see Naruto taking down Scarlet Spider.

.....wait....

It really doesn't matter what distance he is at when he initiates the Rasengan attack. The simple fact is once he is close to Kaine and tries to tag him, he'll find himself either web-slipped, entrapped in Kaine's webbing, or outright dodged and smacked him the face. Pre-occupation is nothing for Kaine when he has the fought entire teams (Assassin's Guild task force, X-Men, Mutated Spiders, and more) and prevailed. That, and his web-slip feat was when he was blitzing an entire team. Webbing a clone? That's good. He'll most likely web an entire horde of clones in a heartbeat and move on to the actual opponents. Web the actual Naruto? Good. One opponent down. Two to go.

Erm..the simple fact is, kaine can't fight two at once, he turns from the clones to try and maneuver the rasengan, he gets hit by the clones same is true vice-versa. Entire teams is really not comparable to 100 naruto.

Next off, he's webbing all of the clones at once ? Simple, naruto creates more clones or the clones use their weapons to cut through the webbing. Web the actual naruto? its most likely a clone, or if its the real naruto

  1. He breaks it with rasengan
  2. He goes kyuubi

no opponent down and naruto beats him on his own.

Now, i'll explain my strat and whatnot, since it seems you don't know much about naruto

So lets see, match starts, naruto has already summoned his clones. The real naruto sees scarelet and ducks behind all the clones as they fIght. He uses rasengan as a surprise attack and scarlet is still able to fight. He webs naruto and the clones? scarlet gets boned by a enraged naruto

why?

Well first off, naruto in this form his much faster than sound as shown earlier and able to heal from most attacks instantly (( unless he's impaled or decapitated or dismembered ect..)) and also has increased striking strength

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

not to mention he tanks getting smashed into the walls and ground with relative ease

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

basically since their speed is close it comes down to strength and destructive power, both categories naruto has the edge in during kyuubi mode.

~~~~~~~~~~

im ready for votes, but if you want to debate furthur, im up for that

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek

Avatar image for shazamfan666
#43 Edited by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I said I was ready for votes, but just let me throw a few things out.

  • Raimundo often starts with his wind attacks in combat.
  • I do not see why Rai would not be able to do what Tubbimura did. Raimundo is the Xiaolin Dragon of Wind. He can combine the Sword of the Storm with his wind element to make it stronger, and the use of Shen Gong Wu is pretty much the same for anyone. He's used the sword much more than Tubbimura has, and has had more experience with it.
  • That amoeba grabbed Scarlet Spider, proving he can be tagged while airborne. As I've mentioned, Raimundo can fly. So all he'll have to do is fly high enough so that Kaine will have to jump to reach him, and at that moment, he's vulnerable to Rai's attacks.
  • From 14:30 to 15:10, Raimundo jumps all the way to the top of the temple, and conducts combat while airborne. He defeats Kimiko and Clay by summoning a draft that blows them down. And just so you know, Rai was NOT using the Shen Gong Wu that was in his hand. This proves my point above. So if Rai can get Kaine airborne, he could defeat him, or at least get the jump on him.
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#44 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shazamfan666: Nice summary-ish! I won't reply to it though, since you're merely pointing out some things. I'll give you those edges for this debate.

Time needed? theres really no time needed to create that amount of clones, its simple as putting his hands together, signs and well you have clones. Next, while the cloned will disappear with a strong enough hit, they are capable of maneuvering and actual fighting. Next off, the clones would be everywhere not coming from a single direction, add in to the fact that they all have standard ninja gear means the webbing would only cover a certain amount of them. Also, there's generally no way for him to know which is the real naruto considering the only difference between them is that the clones are made up of chakra, but they both can still bleed etc.. they just cant take many hits. By the way, although its a little late mentioning this, any clones killed off, naruto can just remake considering his vast amount of energy and stamina.

There is definitely time needed to use the Clone Jutsu. Everything takes time. Seeing as it is out of character for Naruto to instantly use the Clone Jutsu at the beginning of the fight, and has to place his hands together, I doubt he'll have time to use his technique considering how fast Kaine is. First of all, Uzumaki wouldn't just spam clones if doesn't even know who or what he's facing off against yet, and Kaine is fast enough to reach your team's location before they know it, web them up, speed blitz them, and more. Kaine can also cloak himself, and take a more stealthy route. Yes, the clones are capable of maneuvering and fighting, but they have nothing to suggest they have the speed and durability to last more than a single second against Kaine and his superior speed and strength. Yes, the clones come from different directions, but the Scarlet Spider has a plethora of options to counter that. He has his webbing, which he can use to entrap pretty much all of the clone forces as seen from the scan I posted previously. He can web-swing away from the location of the clones and focus on the actual team. He also has the stats to actually take on the entire Naruto clone army and win with minimal injuries considering they are taken down from a single hit. Standard ninja gear means nothing to the webbing. You don't think the Assassin's Guild members didn't have any gear? Their standard equipment consisted of automatic rifles (M16 from the looks of it), a sword, a dagger, and multiple pouches of what seemed as back-up ammo. Yes, the clones are made up of chakra and bleed, but they won't have the chance to bleed once they instantly dissolve to mist from a single hit from Kaine. The clones have never displayed durability to withstand 30 tons of striking force, and have been reduced to clouds with a mere kunai toss. If Uzumaki starts cloning more, Scarlet Spider would see the direction they're coming from and deduce Naruto's location. Heck, I bet he could do this right off the bat if he web-slings onto a better vantage point.

Say.....over 100 naruto ninja clones all armed is less powerful than a medium sized group of ninjas or a horde of carnage children? Also i think you under-estimating naruto a tiny bit here, regardless to the fact that they usually only punch kick ect. all the clones have the same strength as the original naruto, just not the durability, add this in with the sheer numbers and kaine is in trouble here

Quality over quantity my friend. Hand Ninjas are at least solid matter, are highly trained for fodder, and seem to pack more gear. The Hand Ninjas can come back from being hit, while the Naruto clones vanish after a single blow from a character is physically capable as Kaine. The horde of Carnage children would slaughter the Naruto clones, as they are flexible, extremely durable from the way the symbiote functions, and practically bloodlusted. Same strength as Naruto? That's not even one ton. Numbers mean nothing for someone with such high stats and evasion options. Even Deadpool could take on an entire army equipped with swords, rifles, bows and arrows, and launchers because of his healing factor and skill.

just...i...

First of all, naruto usually starts a fight by creating clones and i doubt kaines first instinct is to find us and kill naruto first. Next off, your seriously saying webbing could put naruto down? The rasengan alone could break the the webbing considering it busted steal/ not to mention naruto's taken getting cut through the shoulder

No Caption Provided

to even further disprove that when he goes kyuubi mode, which happens duringtimes of great stress or whatnot, in this case webbing, his speed will be faster than sound

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

here he's blitzing sasuke who reacted to sound attacks with relative ease.

meaning should he somehow find the real naruto and web him, and naruto's rasengan + clones fail, he could go into kyuubi mode and fairly easily rip off the webbing

Naruto starts a fight starting clones yes, but that is when he actually can see his opponent. There are multiple factors why Uzumaki isn't spotting the Scarlet Spider here. His speed, his web-slinging, and his cloaking ability. Kaine's first instinct is to take his opponents down; simple as that. He won't target sorely Naruto. That's just silly. He'll immobilize all three of them with a web-shot that has a high area of effect. The only person I see escaping this is Chief with trouble. I already see that the Rasengan has the potential to rip through the webbing, but you're forgetting how wide the webs can be. Sure, Uzumaki can rip through it, but the remaining web-strings can still snag onto him on his shoulders, leg, feet, hair, etc. That's the equivalent of a string of steel holding you back. Furthermore, you're completely ignoring Kaine's web-slip that he used on Flower to trip her in an attack that was exactly the same as Naruto's. That scan above also proves another point where Kaine's stingers could simply impale Naruto with relative ease, and seeing as Sasuke is nowhere near as fast as Kaine, my character won't miss the heart. Now, I doubt he'd outright kill a kid, but he'd be fast enough to process where to strike to simply knock out Naruto. Also, if you wanna talk durability, Kaine has your boy beat. He fought and defeated Ana Kravinoff out of costume, and poisoned from multiple slash wounds to the point where he could barely move in an area with lots of flames.

Kyuubi mode seems interesting and a powerful mode to utilize, but I doubt he'll be able to initiate it when he's either webbed up and unable to budge even a single inch, or simply unconscious from a slug from Kaine. Dodging "sound attacks" and blitzing Naruto? Has Uzumaki ever dodged a point-blank sniper round? I'll break-down the feat for you.

  • In the first scan, Kaine pushes Doctor Meland out of the way of a sniper round so fast that the assassin in the second scan doesn't even know he's there. He thinks Meland dodged the bullet! Finally, in the third scan, Kaine easily evades a point-blank sniper shot.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

And if you ask me, that's a low showing for Kaine, or at least when he was exponentially less experienced and/or holding back. Naruto may have his Kyuubi mode, but even if he uses it successfully, he still doesn't have the damage output to take down the Scarlet Spider. Seeing as you think Uzumaki in Kyuubi mode would be able to challenge Kaine, that would do nothing but provoke my character to stop holding back and KO Naruto with one hit like he did with Ana Kravinoff.

Simply put, Kaine doesn't need to find the source of the clones if he can use his superior travel speed to locate your team first, and neutralize Uzumaki and Raimundo before they can pull off their tricks with a simple web-shot. This eliminates any other troublesome factors like the clones, wind manipulation, and Rasengan.

  1. Busting concrete and blowing craters in steel are two different things
  2. if kaine is fighting of over 100 clones at once i see no reason as to why his rasengan won't hit from an ambush
  3. Lifting strength and striking strength are two different things buddy :p
  4. they are real enemies and i doubt he can defeat over 100 naruto's each with his own abilities " quickly "
  5. Even if he could, naruto can respawn them
  1. I'm aware of that, but I was comparing the pose of Flower's attack and the rate of speed she was going at was extremely close to Naruto's. Strength is irrelevant if you can't tag Kaine.
  2. Kaine will only have to pull off one hundred punches to take care of the one hundred clones if he decides to go into a physical match, and seeing how fast he is, that won't be a problem. Other than that web-spamming will take care of the clones just fine with pretty much zero effort. And Kaine has naturally produced webbing, so he's in the clear here.
  3. They are different, but Kaine took countless 20+ ton punches from SpOck, and almost knocked SpOck out with a single blow. There's a huge strength difference there, and Spider-Man is already in the upper 20 ton range.
  4. Real opponents that pose a faux danger. They're rather insignificant when you account for Kaine's abilities that can counter large groups of enemies.
  5. Respawn them only to diminish his own chakra so he can't properly use his Rasengan or Kyuubi mode to the same efficiency and reveal his and his team's location? Go ahead!

whoah there buddy i hope you realize weight is different from durability right? The same applies to lifting and striking strength. Striking strength has to do with the massand speed of the punch, not the amount you can lift. and 10 naruto's? how about a couple 100? would that work?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Oh yes I'm perfectly aware of the differences. However, since Naruto's punches will be nothing but flies buzzing around Kaine with his immense durability, their only advantage is their only tactic in fighting: dog-piling. Naruto clones are notorious for not doing much other than punching, kicking, and dog-piling an opponent only to all simultaneously vanish into a puff of smoke from the superior skilled enemy. I used the weight to see if that dog-piling strategy would work, and clearly it doesn't because they are nowhere near Kaine's strength level. That, and Kaine's stingers would drop the clones even faster considering they aren't actual living beings.

already explained weight has nothing to do with durability in naruto's case.

And no, the clones are actual naruto's, their just made of chakra so a sufficient forcewill cause them to.." poof"

And I already explained why the Naruto clones, even if they try and overwhelm Kaine by dog-piling him, wouldn't work. Naruto and his clones' durability is nowhere near the opponents he has dropped. If he can drop Kraven with a single strike, he can do the same with some fodder Uzumaki duplicates. Them being made of chakra does not refute the simple fact that Kaine's strength and stingers would eliminate them from the fight in a single strike. It also, if anything, encourages Kaine to unleash more and let his morals loosen due to the fact that he knows he isn't actually killing anyone. For all I know he could accidentally stab Naruto not knowing he's the real one.

amazing really. However the area breached will be more than enough to bust naruto out of the web cocoon.

No Caption Provided

thats what a beginner naruto rasengan could do, already enough to break him out of webbing, let alone if he were to get angry and go kyuubi.

and not saying the scans not impressive, it is, but again lifting /=/= striking. Being a 20 toner doesn't matter if your hits aren't that effective.

Two things. A giant web-shield like Kaine used to protect the citizens from the giant falling debris is different from a web cocoon. First of all, the web-shield, if ripped through, still has the outer webbing that has the potential to still snag Naruto and throw him off his game. A web cocoon on the other hand, completely immobilizes Naruto. He can't use Rasengan, in which he needs to charge up in a certain position whilst standing, and then run towards the position of his opponent if he's on the floor with webs filled up to his neck and nose. I already know that Rasengan definitely has the power to break through webbing, but it only covers a specific area of effect. Also, do you honestly think lifting does not also equate for striking power? You're basically trying to refute the fact that Spider-Man is a 20 tonner. C'mon. We all know he's that strength-level, and even if he isn't he's at least in the 10 ton range, far more than anything Uzumaki can deliver. It's like saying Hulk can't pull off one hundred tons of striking force when, in Secret Wars #4, he lifted 150,000,000,000 tons. Spider-Man has a consistent history of being a 10-20+ tonner, and has knocked out Deadpool in a single hit. I could understand a feat-less character who supposedly can lift a certain amount of weight, but Peter has a long history of being at that strength level and can certainly dish out 20 tons of striking force. Otto controlling the body of Peter shouldn't change that fact for any reason. I would post feats for Spider-Man's striking force, but do I really need to?

Erm..the simple fact is, kaine can't fight two at once, he turns from the clones to try and maneuver the rasengan, he gets hit by the clones same is true vice-versa. Entire teams is really not comparable to 100 naruto.

Yes he can. If Kaine can fight entire teams he can fight two at once. You're also ignoring the fact that Naruto might not even have his clones to attempt to restrain Kaine (which I also debunked as a futile tactic with their weight). Entire teams that are more impressive that clones that puff into smoke after one punch is comparable. Oh, and webbing could trap all of the clones you have and render them useless in the fight.

Next off, he's webbing all of the clones at once ? Simple, naruto creates more clones or the clones use their weapons to cut through the webbing. Web the actual naruto? its most likely a clone, or if its the real naruto

  1. He breaks it with rasengan
  2. He goes kyuubi

no opponent down and naruto beats him on his own.

HA! Okay the clones or Naruto are NOT going to get through the webbing. That's just silly. You can't move your arms and legs to use your bladed weapons to cut through the webbing, if the webbing is preventing you to move at all. You see my logic here? More clones to cut them out? Either Kaine nonchalantly unleashes more webbing to no cost to his energy (but to a cost to Naruto's chakra), web-swing away, or simply do nothing because the webbing is harder than steel, and the clones are wasting their time trying to help their teammates who have probably disappeared already instead of helping the real Naruto subdue Kaine. Really a flawed concept if you ask me. And again, the real Naruto, if snagged in a web can't use his bladed weapons or any jutsu's to get out if he can't move at all. He can't use Rasengan, and he can't go Kyuubi unless it's some Super Saiyan thing where it activates some aura around him without having to move. He can't just use Rasengan, make it appear on his hand, and somehow get out of the web if he cannot pull his hand away and break through the other web-strings pinning his body down. I'll post the scans again of how an entire group of Assassin's Guild members were immobilized in seconds.

No Caption Provided

Another thing is that all the gear you say that the clones and Naruto himself can supposedly use to break free of the webbing, are simple kunais, daggers, and other bladed weaponry that you need to use your hand to maneuver to actually use. On the other hand, the Assassin's Guild members had guns and like weaponry in which they only had to pull a simple trigger to attempt to break free of the webbing, and yet, you can observe and clearly see that they still couldn't succeed.

Now, i'll explain my strat and whatnot, since it seems you don't know much about naruto

So lets see, match starts, naruto has already summoned his clones. The real naruto sees scarelet and ducks behind all the clones as they fIght. He uses rasengan as a surprise attack and scarlet is still able to fight. He webs naruto and the clones? scarlet gets boned by a enraged naruto

why?

Naruto has never displayed summoning clones before even seeing his opponent IIRC. The real Naruto has also never faced an opponent as fast as Kaine (at least as a teenager), therefore will not see him. That, and Kaine's cloaking is a key factor. If the real Naruto tries to get to Kaine by hiding among the clones, he'll only get webbed up along with them, also eliminating the chances of using his Rasengan of Kyuubi mode. And why would Naruto even be enraged? He's fighting some guy he doesn't know with random teammates he also doesn't know. That and nobody is even dying since all his clones aren't alive.

Well first off, naruto in this form his much faster than sound as shown earlier and able to heal from most attacks instantly (( unless he's impaled or decapitated or dismembered ect..)) and also has increased striking strength

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

not to mention he tanks getting smashed into the walls and ground with relative ease

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

basically since their speed is close it comes down to strength and destructive power, both categories naruto has the edge in during kyuubi mode.

I don't see how the first set of scans confirms how Naruto is faster than sound in the slightest, nor does really impress me. Kaine has dodged faster opponents at close range, with more powerful attacks. I doubt Kyuubi Mode is even a factor in this fight if Kaine is simply going to web them at the start of the conflict and immobilize him and Rai. In fact, here's Kaine beaten and battered from Kraven, a 10 tonner, bashing on him with his fists, spears, and blades alike, one-shotting Ana Kravinoff once again while she's rushing at him.

No Caption Provided

I don't see a focused, uninjured Kaine having problems with Naruto. Tanking getting smashed onto walls and grounds is nothing for Kaine. You say lifting strength does not factor in striking force, and yet you use a feat in which no basis can be compared upon to dignify exactly what Uzumaki is enduring here. That certainly doesn't look like 20+ ton punches to me. That certainly doesn't look comparable to a punch from Bruiser to me. That certainly doesn't look like it is notable to a hit from Armadillo, who has been able to "withstand the impact of being hit by a truck carrying ten tons of cargo traveling at 60 miles per hour without serious injuries". Strength and destructive capability is so far out of Naruto's ballpark it's not even funny.

Well, I think that wraps it up for debating! You can counter if you want but I'm gonna open up voting.

Avatar image for cjdavis103
#46 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow this was a much closer fight then I was expecting maybe because the team did not coordinate their posts very well. but despite that I think the Team pulls this out after a long and tough fight

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: I am defiantly impressed on how you managed to put 3 vinners in a corner though nice fight

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#47 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: How'd you read my last post so quickly? By the way voting is based on debating skills too. I'll count the vote until you confirm it and/or change your mind.

YourNeighorhoodComicGeek // 0-1 // LixShazamThunder

Avatar image for higorm
#48 Edited by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#49 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm: Of course! After all, you can't fairly vote without reading it all :)

Avatar image for higorm
#50 Edited by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio