Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#1 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Rules

  • Morals on and in character.
  • Standard equipment.
  • Standard elimination rules.
  • Start 30 feet apart.
  • Manga/Brotherhood anime versions of Elric Brothers.
  • Edward has carbon fiber automail.

Setting

Emperor's lounge from Ryse: Son of Rome.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
Avatar image for New_World_Order
#3 Posted by New_World_Order (14895 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for dondave
#4 Posted by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio

You're crazy

Avatar image for reaverlation
#5 Edited by reaverlation (25549 posts) - - Show Bio

Hats off to you on this.Good luck

Online
Avatar image for wolverine008
#6 Edited by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

Awwwwwwwwwww damn!

Avatar image for auction_sniper
#7 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

CRAZY, LOL.

Avatar image for _atomikill_
#8 Posted by _Atomikill_ (4911 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for Oreoassassin421
#9 Posted by OreoAssassin (7625 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow

Avatar image for granitesoldier
#10 Edited by GraniteSoldier (12745 posts) - - Show Bio

I win, moving on.

Avatar image for kidman560
#11 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said: first off shout out to our insane host YNCG pleasure/honor to debate you sir

ill start with my opener

Gambit

see you think i would get bored debating with this guy but his awesomeness is just so much... lol him and deadpool have to be my favorites

No Caption Provided

this is without a doubt the sexiest looking Gambit picture there is... anyways ill start with something basic

Cards

these things are what make Gambit dangerous (btw have you noticed he like never runs out of these things)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

great accuracy and Range feat for Gambit... i have others but ill save them

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Gambit has destroyed Sentinels and Beaten Mr. Sinister with Three Cards... these things pack a punch

Agility

Gambit is dangerously acrobatic

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he has Blade down for the count in 1 move

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

1-2 Gambit is able to dodge and deflect bullets easily

3. Gambit dodges multiple machine gun fire (easily one of his best feats)

4. this is Gambits natural agility

Melee

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Gambit is a master close combat guy... here he easily out classes Daken, who is faster and can take allot more damage than he can, and pretty much smacks him around... the only reason Daken walks out is because of his insane healing factor

No Caption Provided

ive shown that Gambit can beat Blade and he can match pace with Daredevil so Gambit is more than capable when it comes to melee fights

thats it... for now!

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#12 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

Do I wait for YNCG to respond? Or can I post my character feats already?

Avatar image for deathstroke19
#13 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for DivineDamon
#14 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathstroke19: YNCG is representing both Elric brothers. Dr_shandian is doing Bane. Kidman is doing Gambit. Jwalser is doing unknown soldier. And I'm doing Shinji.

Avatar image for deathstroke19
#15 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: Alright thanks. Sorry again but it's just the pics suck on my iPhone. Oh and @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Good luck. I'm going to have to start calling you crazy because that's what this is lol.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#16 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll let Alphonse give you guys an invitation to a world of debating prowess.....

Yikes!
Yikes!

@scorpion2501: Keep in mind you're working with the other three as a team.

WARNING: Most scans provided below are from a manga, therefore you must read it from right to left. I posted the scans in regular order, but when you read them you must read it like a manga. Click here for instructions.

Cards

these things are what make Gambit dangerous (btw have you noticed he like never runs out of these things)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

great accuracy and Range feat for Gambit... i have others but ill save them

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Gambit has destroyed Sentinels and Beaten Mr. Sinister with Three Cards... these things pack a punch

Nice feats. I'm fairly confident the Elric Brothers can counter that. Besides from the fact that they should already be able to tank this, their alchemy and manipulation of the battlefield should also grant them the ability to shield themselves from damage. As far as I'm aware, Gambit's charged cards and other projectiles are around the level of grenades in regards to damage output. Even if it is more powerful than a simple grenade, I doubt it would be able to injure Edward to a significant degree, let alone Alphonse. For one, Edward's carbon fiber automail has been able to easily shrug off explosions, as well as Pride's tendrils, which have easily cut through steel and giant mounds of rock. On the other hand, Alphonse armor is durable to the point where bullets practically bounce off of his body. As far as I recall, in the entire manga/Brotherhood anime, the only times Al's armor was damaged to severely was by Scar, who uses deconstruction alchemy that operates on a molecular level, and full-on blast from god-amped Father. That's right. Alphonse survived a blast from a character that had absorbed the powers and abilities of their universe's god. Granted Father was slowly losing control of his powers, and Alphonse wasn't in any condition to fight after, it really identifies that it will take more than the force of grenades to penetrate his armor. On top of that, there's a high chance that the Elric Brothers will only catch splash damage at best, since they have created shields, which have easily blocked machine-gun rounds, by using their alchemy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Notice in the bottom left-panel of the first scan, Alphonse and Edward are still clearly seen without cover, while the machine-gun is still firing. This doubles as a speed and reaction showing since Ed doesn't bring up the shield, at least as far as us readers are aware, until the next page. Even if the blast is too much for the shield, Alphonse is extremely protective of his brother, and being the more durable one, won't hesitate to take the full-force of an attack. Since Al is simply a soul bonded to a suit of armor, he does not feel pain or fatigue. But what if his armor is damaged to the point where he isn't in combative condition? Well, as you well come to see, alchemy is very versatile. Edward, even as a rookie relatively early in the series, was able to reconstruct Alphonse's armor in an instant.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Just to add onto the already impressive feat, that was Alphonse after he had his armor destroyed by Scar, who I have previously mentioned to use deconstruction alchemy. Sentinels and Mr.Sinister may seem impressive on paper, but Sentinels have always jobbed a lot, and Sinister doesn't have any impressive durability feats as far as I'm aware. Heck, in Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN, Cyclops was able to decimate a Sentinel with one of his wide blasts, when I'm fairly certain are weaker than his concentrated blasts. So yeah, both Elric Brothers have the durability and versatility in order to tank the impact of any of Gambit's attacks if they do hit. If not, they've got healing capabilities.

Agility

Gambit is dangerously acrobatic

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he has Blade down for the count in 1 move

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

1-2 Gambit is able to dodge and deflect bullets easily

3. Gambit dodges multiple machine gun fire (easily one of his best feats)

4. this is Gambits natural agility

Gambit's agility is certainly impressive, and a force to be reckoned with. However, it isn't always applicable in-combat (at least with Remy's showings), and isn't as big of an advantage as most people think. In my opinion. both Edward and Alphonse have superior combat speed. Despite Al's clunky appearance, he is very agile and quick. He's been able to temporarily keep Scar busy by himself. This is someone who was able to kill ten different State Alchemists, one of which was a weapon transmutation expert, solo an inexperienced Ed and Al, and keep up with an injured Wrath. He's, as far as I'm aware, far faster and deadlier than Gambit.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Another reason I brought up this instance was because of how similar Scar's powers are. Gambit can "charge" objects in order to make them explosive, whereas Scar uses deconstruction alchemy to break down things. Both can use it on organic and inorganic items. However, Scar uses his abilities lethally almost entirely, and doesn't hesitate for kill-shots. He's been able to easily blow right through solid steel, including Alphonse's own armor due to it breaking down materials on a molecular level. One touch from this guy and you're killed near instantly. Despite this, Alphonse was able to evade Scar for a solid amount of time without any assistance. Since this is so similar to Gambit's power, I can only see this playing out again, but with more successful results for Al since Remy isn't as fast as Scar. That, and Remy doesn't often go on kill-shots. As for Edward, he's got agility covered. Even as children, the two brothers were moving at blurs in-combat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Just to note, Edward is the one in the black shirt, and Alphonse is the one in the white. Not only does Ed sense Mason, a fully grown man with extensive combat experience under Izumi, but they are able to go toe-to-toe with him momentarily. If it's not obvious they're moving at incredibly high speeds, the third, middle-section panel of the second scan clearly illustrates how fast the combatants are while they're fighting. I'm pretty sure you can see this is even before Alphonse had his soul bonded to the suit of armor, so the Elric Brothers have improved tremendously since then. Then there's this crazy feat that Edward has pulled off.

No Caption Provided

In case you didn't know, Edward dodges blows from true-form Envy, races around him, and manages to get up close to Father in their own territory. Just to note that this is pre-God amp Father. However, even without the amp Father was extremely powerful, being able to match Hohenheim, another immensely powerful alchemist, and father of the Elric Brothers. You can also see Alphonse assisting in one of the left panels, so the brothers obviously have good chemistry. So to wrap it up, I firmly believe that both Elric Brothers have superior combat-speed, and both aren't lacking in the agility department themselves either. They should be able to close in on Gambit or simply dispatch him from a distance without too many problems.

Melee

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Gambit is a master close combat guy... here he easily out classes Daken, who is faster and can take allot more damage than he can, and pretty much smacks him around... the only reason Daken walks out is because of his insane healing factor

No Caption Provided

ive shown that Gambit can beat Blade and he can match pace with Daredevil so Gambit is more than capable when it comes to melee fights

thats it... for now!

Those are some nice feats there. However, Gambit shouldn't be able to last too long against either Elric Brothers. Why? Well there are multiple factors, so I'll cover the obvious ones first. Both Ed and Al are more skilled and faster than Gambit, and are far more versatile. They both have superior intelligence, having studied extensively since they were little children, and each retain genius-level intellect. This has allowed Edward to deduce Greed's weakness, which was fairly complicated and involved the body's usage of carbon, in which he later applies to his automail.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Ed isn't just book smart either; he's street smart. When facing off against Lan Fan, Edward was able to quickly analyze his opponent's fighting style, body language, and reaction insults thrown at Ling, her master, and used it to his advantage to get the better of his enemy. Moving on, not only is Gambit's "charge things to make 'em explode" ability extremely obvious, but the Elric Brothers have also faced a similar opponent that I've mentioned: Scar. In regards to the Daken showing, it is impressive, but it is questionable. Gambit has fallen to vastly less skilled martial artists before, and in the scans where he's facing off against the son of Wolverine, he frequently uses his mutant abilities, so it isn't sorely hand-to-hand combat. In regards to going toe-to-toe with Daredevil, it's an iffy feat. Is that the only scan for their battle? It seems to brief to be conclusive, and I can guarantee you that without the assistance of PIS/WIS, a prolonged melee encounter between Remy and Matt would end with the humiliation of the former. I mean, the guy was defeated by Bullseye, who struggles to stalemate Daredevil, in a whopping three pages. Another thing to acknowledge is that in the beginning of the issue, Bullseye had Gambit under his mercy but ran out of ammo.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Keep in mind I am not trying to lowball Remy here. In fact, this happened in his own solo series, in GAMBIT vol.3 #17. He is an impressive combatant, very skilled with his staff, and is a formidable marksman. However, he hasn't shown a consistent track record that would put him even in the B-tier list of martial artists. There's no denying he has talent, but when compared to the raw speed and skill of the Elric Brothers, it's not enough. And to add the sprinkles to the ice cream sundae that is the Elric Brothers' chance of winning, Alphonse could simply out-last Gambit in a fight. Like I have mentioned earlier, he is not only insanely durable and quick enough to dodge Gambit's mutant abilities, but does not experience fatigue or pain. Well, that finishes up for my first counter. Sorry for being a bit scan-heavy. It's hard to establish some of the feats for FMA characters, as the universe isn't expansive as Marvel or DC, and it isn't enough to simply refer to instances in the series.

Avatar image for kidman560
#17 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: im not gonna lie you just provided me with an excellent durability feat... theres somethings i want to touch on but ill wait for my "partners" to do their intros

Avatar image for kidman560
#18 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: alright clearly my teammates are dead... and if they arent... THEY WILL BE WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON THEM! moving on

Nice feats. I'm fairly confident the Elric Brothers can counter that. Besides from the fact that they should already be able to tank this, their alchemy and manipulation of the battlefield should also grant them the ability to shield themselves from damage. As far as I'm aware, Gambit's charged cards and other projectiles are around the level of grenades in regards to damage output. Even if it is more powerful than a simple grenade, I doubt it would be able to injure Edward to a significant degree, let alone Alphonse. For one, Edward's carbon fiber automail has been able to easily shrug off explosions, as well as Pride's tendrils, which have easily cut through steel and giant mounds of rock. On the other hand, Alphonse armor is durable to the point where bullets practically bounce off of his body. As far as I recall, in the entire manga/Brotherhood anime, the only times Al's armor was damaged to severely was by Scar, who uses deconstruction alchemy that operates on a molecular level, and full-on blast from god-amped Father. That's right. Alphonse survived a blast from a character that had absorbed the powers and abilities of their universe's god. Granted Father was slowly losing control of his powers, and Alphonse wasn't in any condition to fight after, it really identifies that it will take more than the force of grenades to penetrate his armor. On top of that, there's a high chance that the Elric Brothers will only catch splash damage at best, since they have created shields, which have easily blocked machine-gun rounds, by using their alchemy.

assuming my teammates arent totally leaving me out to dry i will say that Gambits Cards are much greater than Grenades at times and much less than grenades at others so it varies i will demonstrate (oh btw lets assume my teamates are in this battle) Gambit will go after Alphonse

No Caption Provided

here he snips the wire but thats a charged card heading towards a bomb... so why is there no big boom? well because that card had a very very low kinetic charge no?

Heck, in Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN, Cyclops was able to decimate a Sentinel with one of his wide blasts, when I'm fairly certain are weaker than his concentrated blasts. So yeah, both Elric Brothers have the durability and versatility in order to tank the impact of any of Gambit's attacks if they do hit. If not, they've got healing capabilities.

please try to refrain from using Cyclops it hurts me Physically, Mentally, Emotionally, and Spiritually to even think of that lazer beam, superman copying, punk bastard... moving on to the important part. ill get to that whole durability thing later (i really thought i wouldnt be going solo here though)

Another reason I brought up this instance was because of how similar Scar's powers are. Gambit can "charge" objects in order to make them explosive, whereas Scar uses deconstruction alchemy to break down things. Both can use it on organic and inorganic items. However, Scar uses his abilities lethally almost entirely, and doesn't hesitate for kill-shots. He's been able to easily blow right through solid steel, including Alphonse's own armor due to it breaking down materials on a molecular level. One touch from this guy and you're killed near instantly. Despite this, Alphonse was able to evade Scar for a solid amount of time without any assistance. Since this is so similar to Gambit's power, I can only see this playing out again, but with more successful results for Al since Remy isn't as fast as Scar. That, and Remy doesn't often go on kill-shots. As for Edward, he's got agility covered. Even as children, the two brothers were moving at blurs in-combat.

i have a question say Alphonese's armor were to explode wouldnt that kill him since he is bound to the armor (if you dont know what scans/feats im talking about yet shame on you) ill prove that Gambit can do this

No Caption Provided

now im not entirely sure why cap survived probably because Remy alters his charges but didnt put enough into it.... now before you go screaming Remy doesnt kill would he know he is killing him? no he wouldnt oh btw Cap is wrong his powers can affect organics.

Ed isn't just book smart either; he's street smart. When facing off against Lan Fan, Edward was able to quickly analyze his opponent's fighting style, body language, and reaction insults thrown at Ling, her master, and used it to his advantage to get the better of his enemy. Moving on, not only is Gambit's "charge things to make 'em explode" ability extremely obvious, but the Elric Brothers have also faced a similar opponent that I've mentioned: Scar. In regards to the Daken showing, it is impressive, but it is questionable. Gambit has fallen to vastly less skilled martial artists before, and in the scans where he's facing off against the son of Wolverine, he frequently uses his mutant abilities, so it isn't sorely hand-to-hand combat. In regards to going toe-to-toe with Daredevil, it's an iffy feat. Is that the only scan for their battle? It seems to brief to be conclusive, and I can guarantee you that without the assistance of PIS/WIS, a prolonged melee encounter between Remy and Matt would end with the humiliation of the former. I mean, the guy was defeated by Bullseye, who struggles to stalemate Daredevil, in a whopping three pages. Another thing to acknowledge is that in the beginning of the issue, Bullseye had Gambit under his mercy but ran out of ammo.

omg thank you so much for typing it so i didnt have to your right there is an inconsistency but it isnt on my end its on yours... you say Bullseye struggles to stalemate daredevil well umm

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

he actually seems to be doing just fine here and he wasnt even using his powers... those Daken scans are what he is capable of when he does use his powers. look am i saying he is in Black Panthers league? no am i saying he belongs in the top group? yes

to go even further given the whopping evidence that Gambit seems to do just fine against people who are much higher than bullseye i think that those bullseye scans may not be entirely ya know forthcoming on Gambits abilities

However, it isn't always applicable in-combat (at least with Remy's showings), and isn't as big of an advantage as most people think. In my opinion

No Caption Provided

right... umm yeah... yeah. seems to me that the only time Gambit doesnt use his agility in fights is when the writers want him too lose.

so id say that combat speed wise Gambit can do more than just "hang" with these guys

this will be my last post until i get confirmation that my "partners are indeed alive"

Avatar image for _atomikill_
#19 Edited by _Atomikill_ (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: @kidman560:

STRENGTH

Bane is probably the strongest human alive, throwing a metal disc through somebody's skull like a warm knife through butter, with no visible tire or strain. He very well could have killed Batman if the rest of the Justice League didn't interfere and distract Bane. He punched Bruce straight through a lighthouse... Oh, yes, he also jumped all the way up to the top of the lighthouse before doing that. He nearly bashed Killer Croc's skull in, and while I have no clue on Croc's durability I know it isn't any small stat. Where Batman struggled to fight the Court of the Owls (specially trained assassins, probably the same fighting skill as Nightwing) Bane was trashing them, again seemingly without much struggle, fighting, say, 4-8 at a time? I forgot the number already.

I will probably come up with more later, but the point is Bane is roughly a 5 tonner, and should at least give Alphonse a bad time after a few hits.

REACTION SPEED AND NORMAL SPEED

Bane's reaction speed is extraordinary. He constantly catches his enemies off guard, including Batman, Killer Croc, and the Court of Owls. Penguin too, but I assume he doesn't have great reaction time. Hopefully he is capable of hitting his mark a few more times than Alphonse would be expecting.

DURABILITY

Bane is nearly immune to bullets- he has tanked them before. Also taking hits from Killer Croc.

I don't have much for Bane's durability, but the point is he can take Alphonse's blows for a while.

STRATEGY

To fight Alphonse toe-to-toe while Gambit provides ranged attacks on him.

It is a reaallly short intro, but I can't do too much. Will post a LOT more later.

Avatar image for kidman560
#20 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@dr_shandian: hes alive hes alive... once YNCG responds to us go back to the PM and well work it out together

Avatar image for jwalser3
#21 Edited by jwalser3 (6127 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I'll try to do my best with what I got.

No Caption Provided

While is no Gamibt or Bane. He can provide suppression for my team and play as the annoying gunmen from a distance. Thanks to the organization, A.M.M.O he has been upgraded with low metahuman reflexes and a small healing factor. His skeletal structure has been hardened to diamond levels.

Unknown Solider(With a mask) takes out gunmen before they can get a shot off. This scan just back ups the claims I made.
Unknown Solider(With a mask) takes out gunmen before they can get a shot off. This scan just back ups the claims I made.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Here he is taking out a huge group of gunmen

With the rest of my team fighting in close quarters, Unknown Solider can pick shots from a distance.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  1. Grazes Deadshot, a casual bullet timer. While Unknown Solider did lose the fight, he lost because being wounded to a prior fight.
  2. 1 Headshot and then shooting a man's hand off before he can pull the trigger.
  3. Throwing a pencil in a man's eye from across the room.

Also, he has years, upon years of experience. He has accessed passed Unknown Soldiers memories and has their experience. With that ability he has their combat prowess.

They explain that all his experiences in his memories have been recorded
They explain that all his experiences in his memories have been recorded

No Caption Provided

I'll post more later.

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#22 Edited by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go ahead and drop in some Shinji. Note: Manga is read from right to left

No Caption Provided

Abilities:

Shinji's hand is infected with a Parasyte, wich gives him some great abilities. His Parasyte, named Migi. Is also a formidable tactician. And can communicate with Shinji.

Strength: Being able to puch through a person

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Strength and accuracy:

Being able to throw a rock from a distance of 300m right through the heart is also really impressive(He aimed for the heart, that's the only way a Parasyte dies). You can also see his hand transorming, Migi can transform into anything.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Insane hand transforming: Being able to increase the length of his arm to insane amounts. Also hitting the moving creature right in the heart.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Speed and reflexes: Shinji is arguably the fastest person in this battle in terms of reflexes. Here is Shinji in the beginning of the show, stating he can't follow the movements of the Parasytes.

No Caption Provided

Now, later on in the show he gets enhanced by Migi: He's able to predict all the movements.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Just stating again that he now can see through the attacks.(Also in the stacked images.)

No Caption Provided

Stating how slow a human is.

No Caption Provided

More reflexes and strength:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Being as fast as to beat up all enemies in the blink of an eye:

No Caption Provided

Insane reflexes:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Intelligence and teamwork with Migi(Migi is able to remove himself from Shinji and split up.):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Jump:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Enhanced hearing: Being able to locate 5 people by just their breathing, in a giant school building.

No Caption Provided

Jumping from a building and being fine

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

That's it for now.

Avatar image for evilbeavers
#23 Edited by Evilbeavers (139 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me know when voting is open!

Avatar image for jwalser3
#24 Posted by jwalser3 (6127 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, Shinji is cool!

Avatar image for thatguywithheadphones
#25 Posted by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow a f**king Parasyte character, I never though I'd see someone debate with a Parasyte character.

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#26 Edited by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones said:

Wow a f**king Parasyte character, I never though I'd see someone debate with a Parasyte character.

Well, I thought it would be fun. As Parasyte is my 2nd favorite manga. And I wonder if this was a compliment or an insult...

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#27 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560 said:

assuming my teammates arent totally leaving me out to dry i will say that Gambits Cards are much greater than Grenades at times and much less than grenades at others so it varies i will demonstrate (oh btw lets assume my teamates are in this battle) Gambit will go after Alphonse

No Caption Provided

here he snips the wire but thats a charged card heading towards a bomb... so why is there no big boom? well because that card had a very very low kinetic charge no?

I'm not exactly sure how this scan shows Gambit's above grenade level explosions. All I see is Gambit having extreme control over how charged his cards are, even to an extent to non-lethally hurt someone. I'm assuming that woman in the above scan is an average human and Gambit didn't want to kill her. I mean, that is Professor X's teachings after all. Seeing a teenager that is short enough to trick Gambit, as well as the entire team, into thinking he's a small kid (trust me, it happens a lot in the series) will only play in the favor of my team. Gambit would no doubt hold back with his attacks, and Edward has tanked much more damage than a small energy projectile. Both the Elric Brothers are quick enough to evade Gambit's attacks as seen in the scans from the previous post.

i have a question say Alphonese's armor were to explode wouldnt that kill him since he is bound to the armor (if you dont know what scans/feats im talking about yet shame on you) ill prove that Gambit can do this

No Caption Provided

now im not entirely sure why cap survived probably because Remy alters his charges but didnt put enough into it.... now before you go screaming Remy doesnt kill would he know he is killing him? no he wouldnt oh btw Cap is wrong his powers can affect organics.

You have the right idea, but it Alphonse's armor has been destroyed and taken damage severely in the instances I mentioned, so no, it shouldn't instantaneously kill him. Barry the Chopper, another soul bonded to armor, was absolutely decimated by Lust, a Homunculus, and was still alive. How? Well you see, the soul is bonded to the suit of armor due to a seal being written on it, usually forged with blood. Since Edward bonded Al's soul to the armor, the seal is magically fortified, which also explains how Pride and other characters couldn't destroy it when they wanted to kill the Elric Brothers later on in the series. Scales are different from armor by the way, but yes, if Gambit touches Alphonse, it would most likely destroy a part of the armor. However, that's if he tags Alphonse, and I'm heavily doubting that. Remy isn't Scar, so he won't leap at them with his hand to try and charge Al's armor. Chances are, Gambit will first charge some of his cards and throw them as projectiles towards Alphonse, in which the latter will easily dodge and deduce that Gambit uses deconstruction alchemy. From there, Alphonse would know to keep his distance, and using his alchemy, can do so easily.

No Caption Provided

Only the fists from the last panel are generated from Alphonse himself, but this also loops back to my point about team chemistry. Not only are the Elric Brothers extremely intelligent and observant, but they have been working together extensively literally since they were born. They know each other, and can come up with strategies and tactics to trump your team. However, they can also work together just as efficiently independently. Now I know Gambit has dodged lasers and gunfire before, but those job a lot in comic books. I'm willing to bet the alchemy manipulation would throw off Remy quite a bit, enough so that Alphonse can close in and knock him out. Even if Gambit gets too close, he'll use his alchemy to create a huge dust cloud around the battlefield, impairing Remy's vision, opening an opportunity where he can restrain him. Keep in mind that everyone in your team are humans, although some with alterations. Dust kicking up in their eyes is going to definitely hinder their efficiency in combat, whereas Alphonse is completely fine due to the fact that he's merely a soul in a suit of armor. As for Edward, he could just create a pair of goggles.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

As you can see from the above scans, Alphonse was able to use his environment to his advantage and caught Fu off guard, someone who impressed even King Bradley. Gambit's good, but he's just a human. He's not too intelligent either, will hold back immensely, and that will be his downfall against the cunning Elric Brothers.

omg thank you so much for typing it so i didnt have to your right there is an inconsistency but it isnt on my end its on yours... you say Bullseye struggles to stalemate daredevil well umm

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

he actually seems to be doing just fine here and he wasnt even using his powers... those Daken scans are what he is capable of when he does use his powers. look am i saying he is in Black Panthers league? no am i saying he belongs in the top group? yes

to go even further given the whopping evidence that Gambit seems to do just fine against people who are much higher than bullseye i think that those bullseye scans may not be entirely ya know forthcoming on Gambits abilities

I don't think my scans are inconsistent. I may not know the full context of the fights, as I only got the two Gambit issues for Deadpool's appearances, but the writer seems to have a good grasp on Gambit's capabilities. He writes Remy is an impressive combatant, but he can still be caught off guard. In fact, in the next issue, GAMBIT vol.3 #18, he was able to evade X-Cutioner, who had tons of equipment. However, in the very same issue, he was able to be taken off guard by Batroc the Leaper, and was having trouble with Crossbones. That's not exactly a bad showing, as the two mentioned have squared off with Captain America countless times and have done exceptionally well. However, they just aren't as fast as either Ed or Al, which fortifies my argument that Gambit can be outright speed-blitzed and knocked out, let alone the tricks and tactics the Elric Brothers can think up of. Here's Batroc being able to close the distance and knock Gambit's cards out of his hand.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Granted he was taken off-guard, they were being hunted down by countless mercenaries. If that's not enough to convince you, here's another instance, again, in the same issue, where he has tons of trouble combating Crossbones in close quarters combat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

It's true that Crossbones has also fought Daredevil before, but my point remains: the Elric Brothers are too fast for Gambit. Both Batroc and Crossbones, despite the latter being disarmed, were able to give Gambit lots of trouble when they fought in hand-to-hand combat. Both Alphonse and Edward retain incredible combat speed, surpassing even most of Marvel's top-tier martial artists. Gambit only used his mutant powers in the lethal manner when he fought Daken because he knew the latter had a healing factor, and wasn't exactly holding back either. There's no reason for Remy to use his powers like that against a teenager, whom he will most likely perceive as a kid, and a random adult seemingly in a suit of armor. By the way, Gambit not being in T'Challa's league contradicts the statement that he also belongs in the top group of Marvel combatants, because Panther is one of the top martial artists in their respective universe. So you've got the questionable feat of doing well against Daredevil and the non-applicable instance of him using his powers to a crazy degree against Daken, while I've got three instances were he's been given a full plate going up against Bullseye, Batroc, and Crossbones.

No Caption Provided

right... umm yeah... yeah. seems to me that the only time Gambit doesnt use his agility in fights is when the writers want him too lose.

so id say that combat speed wise Gambit can do more than just "hang" with these guys

this will be my last post until i get confirmation that my "partners are indeed alive"

Gambit was still using his agility in the fights where he had tons of trouble against Batroc, Bullseye, and Crossbones. However, Lester was able to get the better of him, Batroc closed the distance to knock his cards away, and Crossbones was literally throwing Gambit around for a panel there. Iron Man also holds back a lot against street-levelers, and even though the tracking system can't keep up with Remy, it's not enough evidence to support the notion that they can hang with the Elric Brothers. Gambit still isn't even as fast as Scar from what I've seen, and I'll happily give you feats on him. You're also forgetting the countless manipulation options the Elric Brothers have at their disposal to throw off Gambit, slowing him down, and enabling them to either move in on a weakened Remy and finish him off, or simply dispatch him from a distance. They could just create a hole under the ground Gambit is standing on, and he'd be temporarily taken out of the game. To summarize, both Elric Brothers are too fast, skilled, and versatile for Gambit to take on. Couple this with the fact that Gambit is going to be holding back, and it's not going to be a pretty sight.

Avatar image for kidman560
#28 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: me and Dr_ shan are cooking something up... might take a while but expect a pretty decent size post coming your way

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#29 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

While is no Gamibt or Bane. He can provide suppression for my team and play as the annoying gunmen from a distance. Thanks to the organization, A.M.M.O he has been upgraded with low metahuman reflexes and a small healing factor. His skeletal structure has been hardened to diamond levels.

Unknown Solider(With a mask) takes out gunmen before they can get a shot off. This scan just back ups the claims I made.
Unknown Solider(With a mask) takes out gunmen before they can get a shot off. This scan just back ups the claims I made.

Impressive, but unfortunately, not enough. Low metahuman reflexes just ain't gonna cut it with two opponents who have been moving at blurs ever since they were small children. Edward has also been able to blitz Kimblee, who is significantly faster than the gunmen in the above scan, and also has far greater destructive capability. For a good idea of what Kimblee can do, click here.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In terms of speed, I don't see Unknown Soldier comparing. Skeletal density equal to diamond and a small healing factor is a neat trick, but it won't save Soldier from being knocked out. In fact, Edward already went toe-to-toe to Greed, who has a massive healing factor, skin that is arguably even tougher than diamond itself, and enhanced strength, speed, and endurance. Not only does Ed square off with this guy in close quarters combat, but he manages to gain the upper hand towards the end of the fight as well. How does he do this? Well as I've said in multiple posts above, both the Elric Brothers retain genius intellect and are extremely observant. Ed was able to overcome the disadvantage of his opponent having an "Ultimate Shield" and a healing factor, deduced his weakness, and promptly counteracted. If Unknown Soldier gets hit, which I see happening with my combatants' superior combat-speed, they'll potentially notice Soldier's unnatural durability and healing capabilities. Once the Elric Brothers have established that, they will most likely not restrain themselves to a large degree, and quickly eliminate him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11Gallery image 12Gallery image 13Gallery image 14Gallery image 15Gallery image 16Gallery image 17

Just to point a few things out. As you can clearly see in the first three or so scans, Edward is already fairly injured, tired, and has evidently loss a considerable amount of blood. Despite this, he still fights on without too many problems. In Scan 14 to 15 of the above set, you can see Edward deducing Greed's complicated shield mechanisms. On top of this, I'm confident that Greed would absolutely wreck a fresh Unknown Soldier without too many problems. He's also capable of moving at blurs faster than the human eye can see, has an immensely superior healing factor, an "Ultimate Shield" durable enough to snap swords in half upon impact, formidable fighting skills, and overall enhanced statistics. Yet, despite Ed being sustaining previous injuries, he's able to fight Greed to a standstill, deducing his weakness. As you can see, I don't see Edward having too much trouble detecting the abilities Soldier brings onto the plate, nor do I see him having much trouble counteracting it. Heck, if Ed even finds out that Soldier has a healing factor, he won't hold back as much and try and end the fight quickly to help his brother (if they are separated, which I'm sure the four of you are plotting).

No Caption Provided

By the way, that's Greed before he fully-armored himself. After learning that Greed possessed a healing factor capable of healing a completely destroyed head in mere moments, he, obviously, didn't hesitate to pull off lethal moves. I'm not sure Unknown Soldier could survive his brain knocking back and forth in his head or his skull splitting open even with his healing, but Ed's got no way of knowing that. So to wrap this segment up, both Elric Brothers have the capability to deduce Soldier's healing factor, diamond-dense skeleton, and other abilities (most likely Ed), have considerably superior hand-to-hand combat prowess and combat-speed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Here he is taking out a huge group of gunmen

That's a nice feat. However, fodder is nonetheless fodder. But to prove a point, both Ed and Al have wrecked through more impressive fodder than gunmen. Edward has already fought on a huge horde of Mannequin Soldiers, who have souls bonded to human-like/sized dolls, and have healing factors comparative with the likes of Deadpool and Wolverine. The Mannequin Soldiers have themselves overwhelmed soldiers with rifles, handguns, grenades, etc. Ed held these guys back with nothing but his fists and a spear. Alphonse on the other hand, has held his own against Greed's entire crew of chimeras, who had already been waiting for him and devised a plan. Their plan succeeded, but Al put up a fight nonetheless, and it was relatively early in the series too. I'm not saying this isn't impressive, it just doesn't put him on the level of Ed or Al in terms of combat skill, speed, or versatility.

With the rest of my team fighting in close quarters, Unknown Solider can pick shots from a distance.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  1. Grazes Deadshot, a casual bullet timer. While Unknown Solider did lose the fight, he lost because being wounded to a prior fight.
  2. 1 Headshot and then shooting a man's hand off before he can pull the trigger.
  3. Throwing a pencil in a man's eye from across the room.

That's certainly formidable accuracy. While Edward was seen easily able to land a knife-throw on a snake with ease as a child, I'll agree that the Elric Brothers are at a disadvantage in terms of accuracy. That being said, bullets, at least to this degree of damage output, isn't going to be a game-changer. It's also to note that the FMAverse isn't exactly ignorant when it comes to top marks(wo)man, as Riza Hawkeye is a sniper who has tagged Gluttony, Envy, and other fodder from extremely long distances. Anyways, there are multiple factors to this that would not only render this method ineffective, but also reveal Unknown Soldier's position. For one, these bullets, handgun, rifle, or sniper, or going to do absolutely nothing to Alphonse. Besides from tanking god-amped Father's energy blast, he's proved that he is durable enough to outright deflect bullets with his armor.

  • Alphonse's armor deflects point-blank rifle fire to the point where it deflects back to the attacker's leg.
No Caption Provided
  • Easily tanks high-caliber bullets from a machine-gun/Gatling gun, leaving only small dents in his armor.
No Caption Provided
  • Shields May Chang from incoming pistol fire. This is also a valid tactic for protecting Edward if he's unable to dodge the bullets (doubt it).
No Caption Provided

As you can see, bullets aren't scratching Alphonse, and Ed is fast enough to evade them. Even if the latter isn't, Al can cover for him. Even if Al isn't in the area to cover for Ed, I'd argue that he could deflect it with his automail arm. More evidence will be expounded on that if asked. The point is though, the Elric Brothers are either durable or fast enough to render bullets and accuracy null in this fight. The second thing I was pointing out, was that if Unknown Soldier even fires a single shot, he'll most likely miss or Alphonse will tank it as I've explained above. Not only does Soldier fail, but he also reveals his position. The Elric Brothers are observant enough to see the gleam of the sniper's scope or flash of the shot, and deduce your combatant's location. From there, they can easily scale to his location from what I'm guessing is a higher position for a better, accurate view.

No Caption Provided

Just to add onto this feat, the Elric Brothers, even inexperienced, were shown to be able to use this technique since the first episode of the Brotherhood anime, and in the very first chapters of the manga. So with that being stated, they shouldn't have problems detecting and then taking out Soldier from the equation.

Also, he has years, upon years of experience. He has accessed passed Unknown Soldiers memories and has their experience. With that ability he has their combat prowess.

They explain that all his experiences in his memories have been recorded
They explain that all his experiences in his memories have been recorded

No Caption Provided

I'll post more later.

That's a neat addition to Soldier's abilities, but yet again not good enough to put him on the level of either brother. As people have clearly seen, experience does not translate or equate to a high quality of raw skill. For example, both Wonder Woman and Thor have more than three lifetimes the experience of top hand-to-hand combatants of their universes like Captain America and Batman. They simply don't have the feats and backings, despite their extensive experience, to put them anywhere near the level of their respective universe's top-tier martial artists. I see this playing out in this situation, especially coupled with how the Elric Brothers are dangerously faster, stronger, versatile, and intelligent. Even with these deadly abilities, Soldier would no doubt hold back on Edward, as he's only a teenager, and may appear to be a kid to him. This is further strengthened by your own post, since Soldier is seen protecting a kid in the last panel of the pencil accuracy feat. On top of this, the Elric Brothers have fought the Homuncili, which have healing factors so powerful they had been living for centuries before Ed and Al were even born, let alone when they were fighting them. So in conclusion, the Elric Brothers have nearly every advantage here, whereas the only advantage Unknown Soldier has is his accuracy, which is negated by Alphonse's armor body and Ed's combat-speed, and brutal fighting style, which is in turn negated by the fact that Edward is very young. Like Gambit, I don't see Unknown Soldier being able to last long against either Elric Brother. Against both? Not a chance.

Avatar image for fetts
#30 Posted by Fetts (6229 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for princearagorn1
#31 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones said:

Wow a f**king Parasyte character, I never though I'd see someone debate with a Parasyte character.

Well, I thought it would be fun. As Parasyte is my 2nd favorite manga. And I wonder if this was a compliment or an insult...

Awesome. A parasyte fan other than myself.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#32 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: Didn't see this, as it didn't show up in my notifications for some reason. Anyways, thanks! I wish you good luck, and if you need any voters for the match, don't hesitate to link me!

@scorpion2501 said:

Shinji's hand is infected with a Parasyte, wich gives him some great abilities. His Parasyte, named Migi. Is also a formidable tactician. And can communicate with Shinji.

Strength: Being able to puch through a person

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

That's pretty darn strong. However, it should be noted that neither Ed or Al are lacking in the strength department either. Alphonse has been shown throughout the series to have the ability to easily lift people, large logs, and even a giant bell. If he really tried, the combination of his strength and durability should be enough to punch through a person. As for Edward, his carbon fiber automail is extremely durable, being able to tank Pride's tendrils. Mixed with his speed, it's highly also highly possible that Edward could punch through a person. Some strength showings that Ed has under his belt include punching straight through a wall, and kicking a chimera a considerable distance. He's even done an extremely similar feat to the one you've posted, as he punched straight through god-amped Father.

No Caption Provided

Now, obviously Ed wasn't able to simply punch right through Father with the abilities of Truth. Greed II was absorbed by Father and instead of using his abilities properly to make him/Father's durability harder than diamond, he made himself as soft as charcoal. You're probably saying, "what's so impressive about punching through charcoal?". Well, when Greed II was reducing Father's body to the density of charcoal, it was visibly evident. For example, his leg was turning a blackish color. However, in the scan I posted above, it hasn't spread to his chest area yet. It's most likely that Father was depowered when Greed II messed with his density, but it wasn't to the crippling effect that was evident in his leg yet. It's also to note that Edward doesn't even have his automail here. I also highly doubt that Shinji would use his full strength on a teenager like Ed. Against Alphonse? Even if he somehow punches through the armor that I've already proved is durable enough to deflect bullets, there isn't any organs inside, and Al doesn't feel pain. This effectively negates any minor strength advantage that Shinji has, as he will hold back on Ed, and Alphonse wouldn't be harmed greatly by the blow anyways.

Strength and accuracy:

Being able to throw a rock from a distance of 300m right through the heart is also really impressive(He aimed for the heart, that's the only way a Parasyte dies). You can also see his hand transorming, Migi can transform into anything.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Very impressive! That being said, it's not exactly applicable in this situation. Now, I know what everyone is going to think: Shinji can throw a rock and take out Alphonse from the game by damaging his blood seal. However, what people usually fail to acknowledge is how the opponent will know Al's blood seal in the first place. It is highly unlikely that Shinji would resort to throwing rocks at Al, and specifically aim at the area of the blood seal. Regardless, this is an advantage your opponent has, and I will admit to it. However, I don't see it playing a major role as you may think. Alphonse can tank it without much problem(s), and Edward can either deflect it like he has with other projectiles, or create a shield to protect himself like he did with the machine-gun rounds. Or, Al could just cover him like he did with May Chang in the scan I posted in my previous post. As for the "transforming into anything" bit, it isn't anything new for the Elric Brothers either. Envy not only has the ability to shape-shift, but also has super-strength due to his mass, enhanced speed, and a healing factor that also contributes to superhuman stamina. The Elric Brothers have fought Envy multiple times, even in his most powerful form, and even lasted a bit without their alchemy.

Insane hand transforming: Being able to increase the length of his arm to insane amounts. Also hitting the moving creature right in the heart.

I'm going to cut the scans from my counter since they take up a lot of space. Nice scans though! This is yet another ability that I am impressed by. The Elric Brothers, unfortunately, will not be surprised by this. Referring to Envy again, his shape-shifting allows him to stretch his body to incredibly long lengths, and even shown to have a tongue meters long at the minimum. Furthermore, this is also not an ability that the Elric Brothers cannot counter. They both have extensive offensive range capabilities. Besides from the ones I've shown in my previous posts with the fists and dragons, Edward has even shown the ability to make a cannon.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

This is what I mean by improving over the course of the series. IIRC, the Elric Brothers find out that the land they lived on suppressed their capabilities in the field of alchemy by a large degree. Once Shinji uses his shape-shifting and other various abilities, I could very much see the Elric Brothers thinking that he is a Homunculus, and wouldn't hold back nearly as much due to the fact that they have healing factors. Since you say that a Parasyte only dies when their heart is destroyed, these projectiles could very well do the job, as they attack from multiple locations. The Homunculi also have Philosopher Stones that power them, and are extremely hard to kill unless said stone is not removed or destroyed. Seeing as the Elric Brothers fought them on a daily basis, Parasytes aren't exactly rocket science for the Ed and Al to figure out. Heck, even if it was rocket science, they'd still have a shot since they both retain genius-level intellect.

Speed and reflexes: Shinji is arguably the fastest person in this battle in terms of reflexes. Here is Shinji in the beginning of the show, stating he can't follow the movements of the Parasytes.

No Caption Provided

Now, later on in the show he gets enhanced by Migi: He's able to predict all the movements.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

The flaw of these feats are that you are using the standards for humans in the Parasyte universe and applying them to both Edward and Alphonse. While they are both human, there are multiple factors that refute you claim that Shinji is the fastest combatant here. For one, Alphonse is in the technical sense a human, but his soul is bonded to the armor. Edward is also far faster than an average person in real life or the Parasyte universe. The attacks of the Parasytes are also not entirely different from Pride's shadow tendrils, which I'd argue are more powerful than the Parasytes'. Yet, Edward was able to effortlessly parry multiple shadow tendril attacks while also retaining injuries from his previous fight.

  • Despite him being caught off guard by the fact that Pride is possessing Al's armor body, Ed is still able to out-run, dodge, and create a shield to counter the shadow tendrils. Also to note is not even Greed II, who can keep up with Wrath, is able to avoid being captured by the tendrils.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Yet again effortlessly parries Pride's shadow tendrils at medium-range. Edward also further comments about how durable his carbon-fiber based automail is.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Deflects and dodges numerous shadow tendrils at point-blank range, and even goes as far as closing the gap on Pride and advancing towards him. Also, notice in the third scan how Ed remarks that he is "used to fighting oversized freaks of nature". This further reinforces my point that the Elric Brothers won't be too surprised when Shinji uses his powers.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Keep in mind that Pride's tendrils have cut right through steel, trees, and mounds of rock with ease, and have incredible range. So, as you can clearly see, Edward is not a normal human being, and is far faster than the ones in the Parasyte universe. He's also dodged and deflected shadow tendrils, which are arguably even more powerful than the Parasyte ones. Shinji shouldn't be too much trouble for either brother.

Just stating again that he now can see through the attacks.(Also in the stacked images.)

I'm not gonna show the scan in this quote here since it takes up a lot of space, and it was also shown in the stacked scans. Anyways, I'm not exactly sure what this means. Does it mean he is fast enough to see through her attacks or does it mean he can read her similarly like Cassandra Cain? Either way, there is a solution for both. For the first, I doubt he'll be able to "see through" Ed or Al's attacks. Their combat-speed is at the very least on par with Shinji and the Parasytes. Tossing in their alchemy and I don't see him doing well against the combined might of the Elric Brothers. If Shinji can somehow read their body movements and/or predict them, it may or may not work against Edward considering his speed is enough to hit Shinji before he can actually counter. It definitely isn't working on Alphonse. I don't see body-reading applicable to a suit of armor.

Stating how slow a human is.

No Caption Provided

I have to admit I laughed at this quite a bit. The "jeez...what the f*ck is this?" line is quite comedic. Anyways, this is another feat that isn't entirely reliable since Ed and Al are by no means ordinary humans. They've fought against other formidable opponents with a significant amount of feats to back-up their combat-speed, as well as other abilities, and either held their own, stalemated, or even won. I've noticed I haven't reinforced Alphonse's speed yet, so I guess I'll start now.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

Context is important, so I'll point out that Alphonse is in possession of a Philosopher's Stone in the set of scans above, and is in turn amped. However, a Philosopher's Stone only grants a person the ability to transmute something without abiding by their practical laws, such as an object being transmuted to another object of equal mass only. His base statistics such as strength, speed, and stamina are unaffected. I'll also even say that un-amped Alphonse would be able to replicate some of the feats you see above. But the point is, the Elric Brothers are extremely fast.

More reflexes and strength:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

That's a good feat. Still, my point stands. The human in the scans you posted pale in comparison to the capabilities of the fighters in Fullmetal Alchemist. It also doesn't help that the opponent Shinji is fighting seems like fodder and a complete weakling. Does he even have any feats that emphasize on his martial arts skills or combat-speed? It seems like he is just an ordinary guy who doesn't really have any experience in the battlefield, whereas even Ed and Al have been able to blitz trained military soldiers armed with conventional firearms for fodder. It just doesn't stack up to the Elric Brothers' feats. As you may know, actions speak louder than words.

Being as fast as to beat up all enemies in the blink of an eye:

No Caption Provided

To be honest almost any fighter in Fullmetal Alchemist can do that to no-name fodder. Those guys aren't even armed, whereas I have mentioned, the Elric Brothers have easily defeated soldiers with carbines and other conventional weaponry. Edward has also blitzed Kimblee, someone who was able to evade and dodge Scar's blows for an extended period of time despite the latter setting up a trap for him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I'm fairly sure that Kimblee has other speed showings to back up his abilities too. While it probably took more than a second to blitz Kimblee, you have to note that Kimblee is not only an actual notable character, but also has extensive showings that indicate he is a deadly opponent. By the way, he's in possession of the Philosopher's Stone here, which amp his alchemy abilities. This only makes Edward's feat more impressive.

Insane reflexes:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

I would put that more as an accuracy feat than a speed and reflex one. Mosquitoes aren't particularly fast, at least when we're talking about characters like these. Mosquitoes are hard to tag not because of how quick they are, but because our inability to pinpoint their location because of how tiny they are. This has to do more with precision. I wouldn't put this feat above any of Edward's, and while it is a good showing, it's more flashy than usable. Also, has Shinji been able to dodge a point-blank bullet before? Because I'd certainly put a pistol round's speed, which go at around 700 - 1200 miles per hour, above mosquitoes, which go at 1 - 1.5 miles per hour.

Intelligence and teamwork with Migi(Migi is able to remove himself from Shinji and split up.):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

That's a good thing the Elric Brothers have intelligence and teamwork on their side as well! Whereas Shinji and his parasite seem to just begin to familiarize with each other, Edward and Alphonse have a close bond that they have shared since they were born. Even when they were toddlers, they would study alchemy together, and were able to create small toys. Throughout the years, said bond would only develop further, and it was shown when Ed and Al tried human transmutation to try and revive their mother. Edward, after already losing his leg and bleeding profusely, still fought through the pain and sacrificed his arm in order to bond Alphonse's soul to the suit of armor. This is still when they were little kids by the way. In present time of the manga and Brotherhood anime, the Elric Brothers are a fully functional duo, having experience working with one another for at more than a full decade. They know how each other thinks, how they act, and can act both as a team and act individually while still having their teamwork intact. I doubt that Shinji and his parasite, even at the end of their series, would be able to match the close bond Ed and Al have. As far as intelligence goes, both have studied complex sciences since they were toddlers, some of which that Shinji is evidently having trouble with even in college. But not only do they have book smarts, but they have often taken advantage of their opponent psychologically. Edward has used Lan Fan's aggressive reaction against insults directed at Ling to defeat her, and Alphonse has been able to utilize Pride's cockiness against him in order to implement a decoy flash grenade.Sure, Shinji and the parasite can split up, but that leaves Shinji more vulnerable, whereas the Elric Brothers can still operate as independent agents.

Jump:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

From what I see here, Shinji can jump about two times the height of the woman, as she is half the size of the wall. The average height of a woman is 5 feet and 3.8 inches. I'll take the liberty of rounding that up to a whole 6 feet, making the wall at most 12 feet. That's insane jumping height, but it doesn't compare to the Elric Brothers' towers.

[0:00 - 0:09] Both Edward and Alphonse use their alchemy to create towers enabling them to hop over a huge section of the city, which includes multiple buildings.

Loading Video...

By the way, that's from the first episode of the Brotherhood anime. They've improved a huge amount since then. For example, Alphonse doesn't need transmutation circles in order to use alchemy anymore since the introduction of Ling. As far as transportation in large heights, the Elric Brothers got this. Heck, Edward could have just created a door in the wall in order to get across, so he doesn't even need to go above it. That's just one example of how versatile the opponents Shinji is facing are.

Enhanced hearing: Being able to locate 5 people by just their breathing, in a giant school building.

No Caption Provided

Well to be fair the parasite itself states that it "can't determine his exact location." Also, I don't exactly find this that useful in this particular encounter. This is a straight-up fight, and I doubt the Elric Brothers would go with a stealth approach. They almost always square off with their opponents in open combat, but also smartly create strategies and tactics to defeat them. Another thing that could throw off Shinji is a huge dust cloud that Alphonse has used numerous times against foes like Pride and Kimblee. Dust could get into Shinji's mouth, nose, and eyes, and throw him off his game. Meanwhile, Ed can simply create goggles as easily as he creates spears from the ground, and Al will be entirely unaffected by the dust.

Jumping from a building and being fine

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

That's it for now.

A formidable durability feat, but it pales in comparison to the almighty automail and armor of the Elric Brothers. Like I've stated before, both automail and Al's armor can easily deflect bullets, snap swords in half, and endure huge explosions. I don't see Shinji being able to tank such damage, especially taking into account you have said yourself that it only takes destruction of the heart to defeat them. On the other side of the spectrum, Edward has fought with grave injuries from both blunt and piercing damage, and Al has fought without his head (helmet), arms, legs, and more. Also, in the video I posted above, both Ed and Al land on the ice platform from fairly high heights without a single grimace of pain. That, and they didn't even fall off the slim and slippery ice platform. So even in terms of resistance against fall damage, the Elric Brothers have the advantage.

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#33 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for higorm
#34 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for DivineDamon
#35 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: It looks like I'm the only one alive in our team. No one is responding to my messages. Do I really have to debate for 4 characters? Could you like... Do a wake up call or something? In the future I'll stick with 1V1 Cavs...

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#36 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for higorm
#37 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

bump. This fight is too cool to die in the limb..

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#38 Edited by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So, my team gave up. Jwalser said he would get a post out. And kidman said he would set a strategy up.But nothing happened. Before our team concedes defeat, I just want to get my part of the bargain done.

This was our strategy:

Bane and Gambit would fight Alphonse. While unknown soldier and Shinji would fight Edward. Now because the first part didn't actually happen, I'll just do the Shinji and US vs Edward.

Now, this is the plan. Unknown soldier will be facing Ed in a duel. I have (Almost) no doubt that Ed would win eventually. But while he is distracted by Unknown soldier, Shinji will attack Ed from behind. The castle looks big enough, so stealth should be possible.

Before I go deeper into the strategy I would like to adress these points, allow me:

Some of the things you said don't really matter because shinji and US will not be fighting Alph.

That's a good thing the Elric Brothers have intelligence and teamwork on their side as well! Whereas Shinji and his parasite seem to just begin to familiarize with each other, Edward and Alphonse have a close bond that they have shared since they were born. Even when they were toddlers, they would study alchemy together, and were able to create small toys. Throughout the years, said bond would only develop further, and it was shown when Ed and Al tried human transmutation to try and revive their mother. Edward, after already losing his leg and bleeding profusely, still fought through the pain and sacrificed his arm in order to bond Alphonse's soul to the suit of armor. This is still when they were little kids by the way. In present time of the manga and Brotherhood anime, the Elric Brothers are a fully functional duo, having experience working with one another for at more than a full decade. They know how each other thinks, how they act, and can act both as a team and act individually while still having their teamwork intact. I doubt that Shinji and his parasite, even at the end of their series, would be able to match the close bond Ed and Al have. As far as intelligence goes, both have studied complex sciences since they were toddlers, some of which that Shinji is evidently having trouble with even in college. But not only do they have book smarts, but they have often taken advantage of their opponent psychologically. Edward has used Lan Fan's aggressive reaction against insults directed at Ling to defeat her, and Alphonse has been able to utilize Pride's cockiness against him in order to implement a decoy flash grenade.Sure, Shinji and the parasite can split up, but that leaves Shinji more vulnerable, whereas the Elric Brothers can still operate as independent agents.

Alph and Ed are still 2 different people, while Shinji and Migi are one person. They do everything to keep eachother alive. In the series Migi even choose Shinji over what seems like a paradise for parasytes. At the end of the series Migi went as far as to awake from his sleep to help a friend of Shinji.(Parasytes can never awake from their sleep in any situation, so he must've felt Shinji's thoughs and he was strong enough to awaken). 2 brothers are really close, but you are closer with the person that you share your body with.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Migi liked Shinji enough to come back.

And yes, if Migi and Shinji split up he will be more vulnerable. But that will turn the battle in a 3V1.

Well to be fair the parasite itself states that it "can't determine his exact location." Also, I don't exactly find this that useful in this particular encounter. This is a straight-up fight, and I doubt the Elric Brothers would go with a stealth approach. They almost always square off with their opponents in open combat, but also smartly create strategies and tactics to defeat them. Another thing that could throw off Shinji is a huge dust cloud that Alphonse has used numerous times against foes like Pride and Kimblee. Dust could get into Shinji's mouth, nose, and eyes, and throw him off his game. Meanwhile, Ed can simply create goggles as easily as he creates spears from the ground, and Al will be entirely unaffected by the dust.

That's Migi. As parasytes have the ability to sense other parasytes. Shinji on the other hand can hear the breathing of all people in the big school building. And maybe the Elric brother won't take a stealth approach, but Shinji and Migi on the other hand...

So US will be distracting Ed while Shinji moves out of sight. In the midst of battle that will go unrecognised(Think about Gambit card explosion, gun fire, etc... A teenage boy slipping away won't draw anny attention.)

I'm sure Ed would be able to tank the Gunfire from US, but will he be able to react when a rock goes flying to the back of his head? Ed has some impressive reaction feats. When he SEES his enemies. I have yet to see him dodge such a fast stealth attack.

And even if Ed counters it(Which I doubt) If Migi and Shinji split up while he is getting attacked by gunfire. He get's attacked from 3 direction. (2 of them which are stealth.)

Now...

I've done my part. If my team wants to come back at this debate I will be glad to continue. But if they decide to stop, I want to blame them for the concede of our team. Even after repeated messages, bumps, reminders they kept ignoring it.

I'll stick With 1v1 cavs in the future.

@jwalser3@kidman560@dr_shandian What do you guys think? Are we going to finish this like men? Or do we take the coward's way out?

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#39 Edited by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Also, lol. In the scans there is another reflex feat. It also states again how he can see through moves.

And another Major factor: Migi could just split up with Shinji and invade Ed's body. Never even thought of that,lol. He can just destroy him from the inside. Like a real parasite.

Avatar image for _atomikill_
#40 Posted by _Atomikill_ (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: @yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: @kidman560:

STRENGTH

Bane is probably the strongest human alive, throwing a metal disc through somebody's skull like a warm knife through butter, with no visible tire or strain. He very well could have killed Batman if the rest of the Justice League didn't interfere and distract Bane. He punched Bruce straight through a lighthouse... Oh, yes, he also jumped all the way up to the top of the lighthouse before doing that. He nearly bashed Killer Croc's skull in, and while I have no clue on Croc's durability I know it isn't any small stat. Where Batman struggled to fight the Court of the Owls (specially trained assassins, probably the same fighting skill as Nightwing) Bane was trashing them, again seemingly without much struggle, fighting, say, 4-8 at a time? I forgot the number already.

I will probably come up with more later, but the point is Bane is roughly a 5 tonner, and should at least give Alphonse a bad time after a few hits.

REACTION SPEED AND NORMAL SPEED

Bane's reaction speed is extraordinary. He constantly catches his enemies off guard, including Batman, Killer Croc, and the Court of Owls. Penguin too, but I assume he doesn't have great reaction time. Hopefully he is capable of hitting his mark a few more times than Alphonse would be expecting.

DURABILITY

Bane is nearly immune to bullets- he has tanked them before. Also taking hits from Killer Croc.

I don't have much for Bane's durability, but the point is he can take Alphonse's blows for a while.

STRATEGY

To fight Alphonse toe-to-toe while Gambit provides ranged attacks on him.

It is a reaallly short intro, but I can't do too much. Will post a LOT more later.

A million apologies, guys, got really busy really fast these past 2 weeks. I can't get pics on my new computer, which is a bum deal. The screen just darkens like it would when I am going to post an image, but the square that asks me to give the url doesn't.

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#41 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Eh, let's just go on to the voting. I just want my individual performance rated for future improvement.

What do you think?

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
Avatar image for neongamewave
#43 Edited by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be a legendary CaV!!! Voting is definitely going to be a challenge.

Avatar image for DivineDamon
#44 Posted by DivineDamon (8219 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: Nah, YNCG mopped the floor with us. And half of our team quit. But maybe you could evaluate me(And give me some hints for a better debate in the future) when you read through the debate.

Avatar image for deathstroke19
#45 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio