All combatants have their morals on and are in character, but are determined to win.
No knowledge other than their opponent is skilled and trying to take them down.
Standard elimination rules. No BFR allowed.
Start thirty feet apart and visible.
Punisher has standard suit (with current Edmonson vest), assault rifle, dual Uzi sub-machine guns, handful of grenades, some handguns, and a knife.
Black Widow has her standard synthetic suit, gauntlets, gadgets, semi-automatic sniper rifle placed at a spot in the location, some handguns, and a knife.
Voters have to have a minimum of 800 posts and a reason.
Frank Castle was the perfect soldier, serving as a Marine and was highly decorated. Although he was a tough as nails Marine, he was also a family man. However, when he saw his family gunned down in front of his eyes by mobsters, Frank Castle became the Punisher and vowed to rid the world of criminal scum permanently. As time went on Frank would become more cynical, tougher, meaner, and even more skilled throughout his character history. He is a master of almost every single firearm and military weapon on the planet, an expert tactician and strategist, an ace marksman with almost no equal in the Marvel Universe, and is more durable than a rock. Punisher has wiped out entire mob organizations in mere days with nothing but a few guns and his sharp wits and combat efficiency. He's also had his huge list of physical altercations with other Marvel street level greats under his belt that really showcase just how much of a threat the Punisher can be if you're on his wrong side.
Mentality
Frank is a military man. While he has had more high-tech stuff throughout the ages and salvaged super villain weaponry and whatnot, for this battle he's going to be rocking the classics. Before I actually go into what the Punisher is packing, I'd like to point out his mentality. Mentality and mindset is equally important in terms of what you're packing in a fight. For Frank, he views everything as a war. He thinks of everything strategically, tactically, and in-depth. His weapons are no exception. He knows every single weapon he uses, from handgun to rifle, for all their pros and cons and how to effectively handle them in various situations. This extends to his gear. He doesn't just pack things because they're flashy or "powerful". In fact, in the early 90's, Punisher had his own book containing nothing but his in-depth analysis and thoughts on a plethora of modern weaponry that he commonly uses, called Punisher Armory. And for the mods that may be reading, these are all from different issues from what I remember, so it's cool on the three scan rule.
Guns pictured below in order:
ACR
Barett .50
MG42
SIG P-228
Gallery
It's consistent with his character too. Frank is known for packing the right weapons for certain situations, taking care of his guns, and having in-depth knowledge on them.
In Amazing Spider-Man vol.1 #330, Punisher comments on the ammo type on his Calico M950.
In Thunderbolts vol.2 #21, is seen cleaning his guns and stating how they "can never be too clean".
Castle doesn't just know the pros, cons, and handling of all of his different toys and goodies, he knows how to use them. Sure, he's an expert marksman and being a Marine, it's expected to handle different guns. However, I think Frank is more unique in the fact that he gives it more thought in the heat of the fight. He uses his weapon with great care and factors in various things such as muzzle flash, recoil, as well as his opponent's fighting pattern.
Equipment
In terms of equipment, Frank always packs like a one man army. Well....that really is because he practically is a one man army. On top of his pain tolerance, Frank usually wears the latest, most durable body armor available that doesn't also compromise his maneuverability and flexibility. Usually he wears really strong kevlar with varying degrees of strength. A lot of the times they're able to stop pistol and submachine gun fire and even some explosives, so his vest was already pretty durable. In the recent Edmonson run in volume 9, though, he had an upgrade. This was based on the real life Crye hitcoat armor. The descriptions on the right are a bit more relevant in this encounter since he's more heavy duty, but there are notes on the left that are still relevant as well. The things I want to highlight the most though, is the note of "like a real soldier, everything Frank is wearing has a purpose". Just one example out of the many in the image below, is the "hard-knuckled tactical gloves", which will further his strength advantage in this fight as well.
Here's a more in-depth look at the actual Crye hitcoat armor:
Gallery
The official descriptions of the Crye hitcoat armor states that it has "stretch panels for mobility". This reinforces not just Frank, but my argument that he thinks of everything tactically. This armor perfectly fits the role that he needs, protection and flexibility. It also gives him "neck, trap, shoulder, bicep, and forearm protection".
In Punisher vol.9 #5, you see even the shoulder pads to the hitcoat armor able to easily tank a point-blank pistol shot.
Below you see Frank cataloging his various weaponry and showing off his gun knowledge as usual. The last panel shows how his new vest compliments his quick draw speed by having a "free rifle harness for quick switching". This way Punisher can switch between weapons at a faster rate than Natasha.
Quite frankly, (sorry couldn't resist), Punisher's nearly obsessive need to view at things under heavy scrutiny and in a tactical light gives him an advantage here, as even his gear down to the very small details, is all designed to give him the most edge in a fight as possible and compliments his fighting style.
Strength
Frank Castle is peak human and trains rigorously daily, even when injured as seen multiple times in comic books. Many of his temporary doctors have stated that his body has many injuries and scars, and it's a wonder how Frank is in such a good condition as he is. He's a brute of a man, and where he may lack in agility he makes up for his muscle. While Black Widow does have enhancements on par with Captain America's Super Soldier Serum, I don't believe it's ever been shown as on par with Frank's strength, even if it is only peak human on paper. Frank's strength can end lives in a single hit, crush throats, and thrash around people with ease. Every single one of his attacks uses his tactical knowledge to compliment his strength in order to end the fight quickly.
In War Journal vol.2 #7, Frank outright kills a bull in a single hit with a wooden plank. You can see the blood next to the bull's head in the second page so it's not just a knockout.
Gallery
In Amazing Spider-Man vol.1 #135, he easily ragdolls Hildago and Juan, Tarantula's henchmen, with one arm.
Gallery
In Punisher vol.9 #14, Frank casually kicks a man so hard and with enough momentum that he's launched onto the person behind him, and the person behind him is flown right out of the window. This is an especially good feat for when/if Frank needs to get some distance from Natasha.
In Thunderbolts vol.2 #12, he snaps the neck of Elektra's brother with a headbutt. The force needed to achieve this is pretty insane. It takes about 1000-1200 plus pounds of force to snap a neck, and the guy's neck is completely broken and crooked from Punisher's headbutt.
Black Widow may have enhanced strength on paper, but I think when it comes to feats, Frank is way more impressive in this regard. In fact, in Punisher: War Zone vol.2 #3, Black Widow even admits this.
There really isn't much to argue here since Frank has a clear advantage in physical might, but I think your main argument here will be that Natasha has enough strength in order to compete, much like I will be arguing that, while Punisher might be slower than Widow, he's still quick enough to make it matter and compliment his other abilities to give him a victory. Well, I'll have to disagree even on that. Punisher has been able to get the better of Daredevil in terms of strength multiple times, and Matt has feats under his belt like effortlessly lifting 400 pounds of weight, and turning over a limo that had people inside of it. He's also held his own and tussled against other opponents with impressive strength or even low-level superhuman strength, such as Kingpin, Wolverine, and Deadpool. With a hefty strenght advantage, Frank's hits will be felt a lot more and he can pull Widow in for a game ending move or throw her to give himself distance and time to maneuver.
Speed
Frank is beefy, and a lot of people typically see him as slower and relying on his pain tolerance. While Punisher does utilize his pain tolerance many times, he's not just a street-level brick. Many people forget that Punisher is a competent bullet timer. He's been able to hold off a younger Spider-Man in the past, evade Nightcrawler before he could catch up, and engage in close-quarters combat with Daredevil, who swats away bullets with ease with his billy club, multiple times.
Reaction Time
In terms of reaction speed, I'd say Frank is at least equal to Natasha's own from what I've seen.
In Punisher: War Zone vol.1 #12, he dodges a point-blank shotgun blast. It's important to note that Punisher here is completely unarmed and he was actually practically lobotomized and brainwashed into thinking he was an ordinary family man. They hypnotized and even had actors to pose as his family, so Frank is definitely not in the right state of mind here when he's performing this feat.
In Punisher vol.2 #20, Frank transitions into a roll right after a fairly high story jump and dodges a pistol shot at close range.
Gallery
In Punisher: War Zone vol.2 #3, Frank not only dodges multiple automatic rifle fire from various angles mere feet away from him, but he also does it so that the mobsters all end up shooting each other.
These are just the standard if not maybe slightly above bullet-timing feats. Frank's fought some other fast and competent street-levelers in his time as well which I can post later in this debate, but I find these to be the most relevant in terms of giving a general sight for Punisher's reaction time.
Gun-draw speed
Something I feel that is very important and relevant to go into is the speed at which Punisher can draw and accurately aim his gun. We already know he's a proficient marksman, but how about the speed that he can effectively shoot at? Well I can assure you that Punisher would be an amazing pistol dueler at the very least, and is extremely quick in drawing his firearms. This is not only because of his good reaction time, but also his years and years of experience with firearms and other weaponry. It also helps even more that Punisher thinks tactically and did account for quick-switching and weapon drawing as I've mentioned before with the equipment.
In Punisher vol.2 #22, Scully tries hitting him with a lead pipe just a few feat away from him but by the time he can raise his arm Punisher already has his pistol up, cocked, and aimed for a headshot. Scully himself is a very gifted combatant and was the leader in the school of hitmen. While they were not true ninjas as his school advertised, they were all still very skilled.
In Punisher vol.2 #20, Frank drops one of his guns but then immediately shoots the criminal in the head before they can react. Note Punisher's in-depth tactical knowledge of guns, specifically pistols in this instance, and how he uses it in his favor.
Gallery
In Daredevil vol.1 #183, Matt throws his billy clubs at Frank, in which Frank instantly draws his pistol and shoots the incoming projectile in two moments before it hits him. You can see that the Punisher was barely even facing the direction of the billy club and didn't even had his revolver out yet, but was still able to draw at lighting speed. You can even see in the very last panel when he hits Daredevil he's also simultaneously pulling out his handgun, and then tags Daredevil right after.
Gallery
Against Black Widow's agility
Black Widow is very agile. Let's not beat around the bush, because she is more agile than my boy Frank here. However, besides his strength, which should be able to level the playing field for that certain advantage that Natasha holds, he's also agile in his own right. Coupled with the reaction speed I've highlighted above, I think Punisher should be able to keep up. In terms of agility other than bullet dodging, Frank usually sticks to the more military style rolling and whatnot. It's nothing flashy, but it is efficient and gets the job done.
In Amazing Spider-Man vol.1 #330, Punisher shows some agility and dodges point-blank pistol fire after being right up to the man's face just a second before.
Gallery
In Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15, Frank dodges a blow and webbing from a younger, more inexperienced Peter. It's still impressive what he's able to pull off. Even early in this career people tend to forget that Spider-Man was still able to effortlessly dodge bullets in close quarters from anyone but more gifted marksmen like Punisher. Plus he's got a huge stat advantage against Frank.
Going up against a young Spider-Man is already very impressive, but let's not forget the fact that one of Punisher's biggest rivals is Daredevil, who is arguably the most agile street-leveler in the Marvel Universe, if not the most agile non-metahuman. I'd certainly put him higher than Natasha in terms of agility. Yet time and time again Frank is able to either stalemate or give Matt a good challenge in close quarters hand-to-hand combat.
Daredevil vol.1 #257. Also seen from Punisher's view in Punisher vol.2 #10, and more recently, revisiting in Punisher vol.8 #7.
With the speed that Punisher is able to effectively draw out his weapon and accurately shoot people and/or objects, I think that he's perfectly capable of getting the drop on Black Widow. Not only that, but he could couple it with his dirty fighting tactics, which go very well together with his quick draw. He's also had experience fighting against more agile opponents, so Natasha shouldn't be any surprise for him. As for the dirty fighting, I'll expound on that later.
Skill
Hand-to-hand combat
Here's something that Frank is severely underrated in. If it wasn't clear enough from Frank's showings against Daredevil that I've posted just above, Castle is an absolute powerhouse. He's not the best martial artist in the Marvel Universe, but he still has a lot of technical skill. He's the perfect soldier, and he's picked up a lot of different martial arts in the military. Besides the more conventional militaristic fighting styles, he also knows "Nash Ryu Jujutsu, Ninjutsu, Shorin-ryu Karate, Hwa Rang Do, and Chin Na. His styles of choice being Nash Ryu Jujutsu". With more and more exposure to assassin, martial arts master type opponents in the Marvel Universe, Punisher has steadily improved his own ability throughout the years.
In War Zone vol.2 #3, it was revealed that during Captain America gave his Marine unit training in hand-to-hand combat. While he never attempted to hit Cap back due to his high respect and honor for Steve (which would also be demonstrated throughout the years in Civil War and War Zone vol.3), he still got the training instructions.
Gallery
Throughout Frank's involvement in the recent Thunderbolts team led by Ross/Red Hulk, he trained and sparred with Elektra, whom he was in a relationship with, daily. Elektra herself is a very competent and respect martial artist in the Marvel Universe, able to fight Daredevil, Bullseye, and even Black Widow herself.
In Thunderbolts vol.2 #7, is seen training with Elektra. Note Red Hulk stating how he trains with her every morning. Frank is also injured here from a land mine that was strapped on his chest exploding.
Gallery
In Thunderbolts vol.2 #30, the two are yet again sparring. Punisher explicitly states he wants to train with her to maximize his martial arts prowess.
Gallery
Even at the end of the Thunderbolts series it's confirmed that Frank is still training with Elektra, so he's pretty much improving on his craft the entire run. Even before his training though, Frank has been able to give Daredevil a challenge on multiple occasions, flat out defeat Bullseye twice in hand-to-hand combat (Punisher vol.3 #1 and Punisher vs. Bullseye #4), gotten the advantage against Falcon as Captain America in close quarters combat (Punisher vol.9 #16-17), dance around with Wolverine, albeit he's holding back, in brief encounters (Wolverine/Punisher #2), and more.
Those may not be overly impressive on the surface, but Falcon even without the shield has been able to defeat Crossbones, defeat Hawkeye while brainwashed, and giving Nuke some trouble. Crossbones in turn has held his own against Deadpool, Wolverine holding back was able to defeat Iron Fist in a spar, Bullseye has been able to fight Daredevil to a standstill, and so on and so forth. I'm not saying Castle is at the same level of technical, raw martial arts skill to all the guys mentioned above, but he's been able to give a good amount of them trouble and even edge a win with his skill which is complimented with his strength, etc.
Fighting dirty
Then there's Frank fighting dirty, which he is known for.
In Punisher vol.2 #22 he makes a clown out of the martial arts instructor in a school for ninjas (but really it's a school for mercenaries overall). Later on in the very next issue Frank would defeat him in unarmed combat. The key words to this page are "don't do what the other guy expects you to do".
Frank's got a plethora of feats in terms of fighting dirty ranging from the usual crotch kicks, to misleading people with misdirection, kicking a grenade, leaving a flamethrower open in an elevator, and more. I can post more if asked or if I find it necessary to illustrate a point later but to keep this opener from being too chunky I'll leave them out for now. I think the scan above showcases not only Frank's mentality when it comes to fighting dirty but also it in practice.
Marksmanship
Punisher is perhaps one of the best marksmen in the Marvel Universe, right below the likes of Bullseye, and even then he's been able to defeat Lester in unarmed combat. After Frank whips out his guns at a lightning speed, he's also got to aim and hit his mark properly. And boy, does Frank manage to do that with flying colors. Punisher has been able to mow down entire hordes of mobsters armed to the teeth with tactical proficiency, all with headshots and chest shots expertly planted instead of spraying, contrary to popular belief. He's also been able to tag incredibly fast targets such as Daredevil, a younger Spider-Man, and more.
In Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15, Punisher while mid-air is able to land two shots precisely on Spider-Man's web-shooters without actually harming Peter or shooting his actual wrists. This is as laser precision as you can get.
Now there's many reasons why I chose this feat first. For one, I can see Frank doing this to Natasha's huge and obvious golden gauntlets. Even Natasha herself in Black Widow vol.2 has noted how clunky and unreliable they can be.
Black Widow's golden gauntlets are much larger and easier to tag than Spider-Man's concealed and tiny web-shooters, so I have confidence that Punisher would be able to replicate this feat again. In terms of other accuracy feats, that wasn't the first time he's tagged Peter.
In Amazing Spider-Man Annual 15, the page right after the famous web-shooter feat, he tags an younger Spider-Man yet again right in the chest with a "mercy bullet". Note the commentary of Punisher anticipating and studying movements. This reinforces my argument that I mentioned way earlier about Frank's battle mentality.
In Punisher: War Zone vol.1 #7, Frank tactically plants head and heart shots from an impressive three hundred yards away, then shoots the bags of drugs, with ease.
I'm fairly confident that Frank's marksmanship and quick drawing skills surpass Black Widow's here. Punisher should also be more accurate with a more versatile array of weaponry. He's tagged opponents both more agile (Daredevil) and faster (younger Spider-Man) than Natasha. At the very least his laser accuracy can keep Natasha on her toes even with her agility and give him breathing room in order to assess his options.
Durability
Now this by far is probably Punisher's strongest suit. The only thing that will stop Frank is absolute hell, and even then Frank's been an agent of hell before (though that run was pretty horrible). More realistically though, Frank can deal with an insane amount of damage and trauma. It usually takes nothing short of extreme blood loss even by comic book standards for Frank to pass out or straight up decapitation if we're going to cite the infamous Daken encounter. Now the only types of damage I see Black Widow really being able to dish out here is blunt from her fists and piercing from her guns. IIRC her gauntlets also shoot but I'm not exactly sure. You'll have to elaborate on that in your opener, but for now I'll cover piercing and blunt durability.
Against piercing damage
In Punisher vol.4 #6, he tanks multiple high caliber revolver shots point-blank to the chest with lower tier kevlar armor but still manages to snap the mobster's neck completely around before collapsing.
Gallery
In Punisher vol.9 #20, Frank the Tank is able to withstand minigun bullet, handgun shots at point-blank, a very tall fall, in which he instantly recovers and kills two more terrorists, then more handgun and rifle rounds before eventually succumbing to his wounds.
In Dark Reign: The List, Punisher is able to withstand a crazy amount of damage. It's mostly piercing, but there's a little showcasing of blunt durability from explosions here as well. Speaking of lists, here's a list of all the damage Punisher takes in his fight against Daken alongside the scans.
Shot through the leg by a high powered laser.
Knocked down by Green Goblin pumpkin bombs.
Broken leg, which is filled with sewage.
Impaled by both pairs of Daken's claws.
Stabbed in the chest when Daken leaps at him on the rooftop.
Stabbed through the wrist on his right hand.
Gets half of his face sliced off by Daken's claws.
It's going to be very tough for Black Widow to really take Frank down with bullets and a knife.
Against blunt force damage
I've already established the fairly high strength advantage that Frank has, but his durability should, paired with his hard-knuckled gloves, give him even more leverage in the physical department. Frank has been able to remain conscious and even fight back against characters with superhuman strength ranging from the lower tons to around ten tons of strength. Widow's physical attacks with her punches and kicks shouldn't be too much of a hassle for Punisher to withstand.
In Punisher:War Journal vol.2 #2, Frank is pretty much fine after being punched through a wall by Captain America.
Gallery
In Thunderbolts vol.2 #31, Frank is able to take a punch from a nerfed/depowered Red Hulk. Ross had just been shot with a de-Hulking gun which basically forcibly reverted him back to his human form. It's still pretty impressive as Rulk's strength here is probably in the lower ten tons or so.
Gallery
In Punisher: War Journal vol.2 #15, Frank tanks both blunt hits and piercing blade damage when he fights Alyosha Kravinoff, Kraven's son. Alyosha was able to one-shot Rhino, so this is a pretty good feat.
In Punisher vol.4 #10, he withstands a massive amount of punishment from The Russian, Ma Gnucci's top enforcer. The Russian was able to ragdoll Spider-Man, throw him away, and actually harm Peter with his punches. There's a bit of an Ennis factor to it as he doesn't like superheroes, but even if you tone the feat down I think it's very impressive.
I think it goes without saying that Frank is able to brave through very powerful attacks without being knocked unconscious, even if they have low-level metahuman strength.
Summary
Punisher's equipment is more effective and fits Frank like a glove thanks to his tactical mindset and compliments his fighting style and his weaponry.
Punisher is physically stronger by a significant and potentially game-changing margin. This is also complimented by his equipment.
Punisher is a lot more durable than Natasha with both piercing and blunt durability, and should be able to tank anything she can dish out.
Punisher reaction time, which has been tested against some of Marvel's top-tier street-levelers, is very high. Coupled with his quick drawing he can tag and get the drop on Widow.
Punisher's expert marksmanship and strength is a counter to Widow's agility, and his marksmanship is superior to Natasha's.
Looking forward to your opener mate. Excited to see what Black Widow is capable of. I never really see her in any debates, threads, let alone CaVs.
At this point, many of us have heard of Black Widow. A Soviet super spy assassin turned Avenger, thanks to receiving a variant ofthe Super Soldier Serum in exchange for loyalty to her country, Black Widow has been training and acting in missions for over 70 years. This serum, much like Captain America's, has given her an enhanced physiology to superhuman levels. She began as an orphan at a vary young age, studying multiple martial art forms at the Red Room Academy, becoming excellent at fighting and information gathering, training with weapons, and being taught to show little mercy to her adversaries.
Moreover, here is her Marvel Handbook entry explaining more of her background as well as her basic attributes and skills:
Gallery
As a woman who has scrawled across many teams, sometimes simultaneously both as a member and a leader, from the KGB to SHIELD to the Secret Avengers to the Mighty Avengers, and has worked in partnership with many individual heroes such as Hawkeye, Daredevil, Wolverine, & the Winter Soldier, she has proven her loyalty, skill, and effectiveness time and time again.
Fighting Skill / Hand to Hand
One of Black Widow's most obviously and biggest advantage's in this bout with Frank Castle, the Punisher, is her superior fighting skill. Punisher is certainly not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, and is very creative in getting the job done, but Black Widow's skill is simply too far superior to his and will likely surprise him as she has with many other skilled opponents who have faced Widow.
In Black Widow: Deadly Origin #1, Widow's skill was noticed at the tender of age of 12 by none other than the legendary X-Men mutant himself, Wolverine, while he was on a spy mission back in 1940. Her leader's set up training/sparring sessions between Widow and Wolverine, and he quickly realized her skill was no joke, knocking Logan on his ass with a bloody mouth.
Gallery
Echoed in another encounter from Wolverine Origins #9, Wolverine praised her skill and tenacity. In addition, he also noted her ability to fight dirty and do what it takes to win:
Gallery
She has also extensively trained with Daredevil. As noted in Daredevil #94 on panel, neither individual was pulling their punches.
Gallery
In addition to all this training, she of course has years of live hand to hand and simulated field training with fellow super soldiers, Winter Soldier and Captain America. In conclusion, while Punisher is no slouch in hand to hand combat, Black Widow is definitely his superior in this regard due to her training, skill, and willingness to effectively fight dirty as well.
Speed, Agility, & Reflexes
This is a category I feel Black Widow also has a clear advantage over Frank. Her acrobatics, speed, and reflexes are augmented due to the super soldier serum. Like every other street leveler, Black Widow has dodged plenty of gunfire from fodder unscathed without a problem, so I will not bother providing evidence as we both know those feats are for the most part irrelevant when you are up against sharpshooters with a bounty of feats like Frank. Yes, Frank has consistently impressive draw speed. However, I feel when he is dealing with highly skilled, agile opponents also firing bullets and various other projectiles (I will get to these later), it changes changes his outcomes.
As a brief overview of how Black Widow uses her speed, agility, and reflexes to effectively take out her opponents, In Black Widow Vol. 5 #1, she clears out a hallway filled with armed guards before they could even fire a single shot.
Gallery
Gallery
She has also catch and throw a knife at a shooter faster than they could pull the trigger and before her coffee even hits that ground. This all happens in less than a couple seconds, again showing her dexterity and reflexes consistently functioning at a highly precise, dangerous, and swift manner.
Fodder? Sure. But the point is, she is very quick and agile. She effectively killed or incapacitated everyone that came her way before they could even fire a single shot all in the dark.
Speed, Agility, & Reflexes against Punisher
It should be noted that as far as I know, Widow has 3 on panel speed, agility, and reflex feats against Frank Castle himself, where she came very impressive in the encounter. As a reminder, prior knowledge of one another in this fight is not allowed, however, prior feats against one another to show off their feats, skills, etc. to substantiate arguments is alright.
Gallery
Scans from left to right (1 - 6)
1 - 2. Punisher/Black Widow OGN: Natasha accurately judges & deflects Frank's bullet, then uses the distraction to sneak up on him. The rest of the scans which detail the distraction (her Widow's Bite) can be found here, but it will be discussed later. As you can see, this is also a speed feat for Natasha, as she covered a distanced and scaled a few stories before Punisher could even pull off a second shot. Yes he just got distracted but he recovered in a single panel.
3. As you already mentioned, Natasha and Punisher engaged one another in combat in Punisher: War Zone vol.2 #3. This scan just reveals what the encounter was like when they first meet. Natasha is able to quickly disarm him a single strike before he could even think of firing a shot; taking the dangerously precise and trigger-happy Punisher by surprise. Her flip that sent him rolling down the cliff to engage in hand to hand combat ultimately disarmed him from the remainder of his artillery as well.
4 - 6. Punisher: War Zone vol.2 #5: Natasha literally displays superior speed, agility, and reflexes in combat with Frank back to back to back (3 times). She first blitzes him before he can draw his shotgun. She then kicks him so hard it sends him flying through the shed's wall. Then she disarms him from his shotgun that she just witnessed him using at pointblank range on Spider-Man. Finally, she out draws Punisher's gun thanks to her electrical Widow's Bite, hurting and paralyzing him.
In conclusion? Yes, Punisher's draw speed and shooting skills are impressive, but when you put him up against a well trained and skilled combatant like Natasha, she has more than proven that she can eliminate that advantage. Punisher will have to come up with more than just emptying lead to tactically get rid of Black Widow.
Strength
Now, as you already mentioned, Natasha acknowledge Punisher's strength advantage and her speed advantage. I agree that Punisher is stronger than Natasha, but not by much. Ultimately, the gap in the speed between Natasha and Frank is greater than the strength gap between the two. Yes, Frank has some awesome lifting feats and has killed a bull with a punch, but Natasha's precision in her striking power is not to be trifled with.
Punisher killing a bull in one punch is simply not a quantifiable feat. First of all, he hardly, if ever, kills thugs with a single punch so I would presume he would not be delivering those kind of irregular blows in this fight with Black Widow.
It would be like trying to quantify Black Widow showing enough strength to tear the heads off of giant mechanical bees in The Champions #1, tearing the arm off a robot in Avengers Assemble #19, and barreling through bulletproof glass in which all require a tremendous amount of strength, but hardly something we can quantify like Punisher's bull punching feat:
Gallery
Note: In the bulletproof glass feat, Captain America questioned if she could bust through the windshield, and Natasha explicitly stated that any glass, no more how strong it is, can be broken with the "proper application of force."
Black Widow has a history of using her skill, fighting dirty, and/or gadgets in tangent with one another to overcome opponents that are stronger than her.
When it comes to pure striking power, Black Widow is no slouch, she has killed and knocked out fodder in single strikes, and has dropped Daredevil to his knees from a single blow:
Another example of Black Widow using her quick thinking, skill, and gadgets to overcome a much stronger opponent was against Crimson Dynamo, an Iron Man villain, in Black Widow Vol 4 #7-8. In this fight, Dynamo surprised Widow with a sneak attack while she was on a mission by tearing the roof of a train.
Widow states that she knows that her standard gear won't take out Dynamo outright, so she has to get creative in order to stop him enough so that her and the man she saved could get away. So she used her pellet explosives to blow out the bottom of the train and shock his circuitry.
Gallery
This is one of many examples where Widow has bypassed an opponents far superior strength by using her skill, quick thinking, and gadgets.
In Daredevil & Black Widow: Abbatoir, an injured Black Widow fought dirty to take out a physically stronger serial killer, who he and his sister had gone on a killing spree killing SHIELD Agents and were in the middle of torturing Daredevil himself:
Gallery
Moreover, Black Widow specifically states on panel in Avengers #163 in a fight against Typhon, a Hercules villain, that just because an opponent is stronger than her, it does not mean she cannot find a way to hurt them by targeting weak points or use their own strength against them.
Gallery
In conclusion? Yes, Frank is stronger than Natasha. Natasha has even admitted it. However, Frank's strength advantage is minuscule, and ultimately negated and eliminated, when you consider Natasha's skill, training, and gadgets immediately omitting the gap. She just has a history of not allowing her opponents' strength advantage a victory.
What's Next? And Why Black Widow Wins This Fight!
What's Next?
Widow's gadgets and weapons.
Widow's accuracy
Widow's durability
Rebuttals
Why Does Black Widow Win This Fight?
The gap between the advantages Black Widow and Punisher have against each other clearly favors Widow. Her superior acrobatics, reflexes, fighting skill, striking power combined with her gadgets/gear will bring her to victory in a variety of ways. Punisher's biggest disadvantage the ways he could win this fight are limited.
It is questionable if Frank has the skill and striking power to knock out someone as skilled, agile, and durable as Black Widow.
It is questionable whether or not 616 Punisher would straight murder Black Widow in the classic Punisher fashion. Although their history together (outside of on panels feats together) are erased in this fight, the idea Punisher would gun down a beautiful woman, albeit a skilled/deadly one, like he would a ruthless thug, known villain, or serial killer is unlikely. A stronger argue would be that that he would try to incap or knock her out.
On the other hand, Black Widow has a variety of options at her disposable to take out Punisher thanks to her training, skill, and gear. Everything from simply incapacitating him with her grappling wires to knocking him out with some calculated blows to gunning him down to blinding him to electrocution to poisons (covered in next post). Both characters are highly resourceful, think on their feet, and will fight dirty if need be. However, I believe Black Widow's more refined training and skill, through decades of covert operations & missions (both as a superhero & mercenary), is what puts her several steps above Punisher in that regards, which has ultimately been a trademark of her successes both on panel through feats and through constant word-of-mouth praise from some of Marvel's best.
So Black Widow wins because of skill, gadgets, & ruthlessness.
The exact battle strategy will be mapped out in subsequent posts!
Log in to comment