CaV: Vegeta/Nappa (Balgoparks) vs Invincible/Omni Man (KaijuKing)

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kaijuking

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#1  Edited By kaijuking
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Vegata and Nappa are Sayin Arc. They get feats from Manga and Anime.

Mark and Nolan are post Viltrum War. They get feats from Comics and Show.

Death or KO

Viltrumites defending Earth, Sayains trying to take it for Dragon Balls.

No prior knowledge for either side.

Battle starts in mountain area.

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kaijuking

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DeathHero61

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Why Nappa? Why not Goku? Whatever. TAEP I look forward to reading this.

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d1111212

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#4  Edited By d1111212

Taep and t4v

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kaijuking

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Why Nappa? Why not Goku? Whatever. TAEP I look forward to reading this.

Thats what he ask for. He wanted the teamwork factor maybe?

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Sauce_God31

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TAEP

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thEonE34gG

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Interesting.

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kaijuking

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@balgoparks: I guess I can go first, Im not sure if your a older user with new name, or not. Looking at your past post you seem knowledgeable and debated before on forums. You sought me out for this match, and I think it is a reasonable match, so I will go first.

Introductions needed? Probably not, but maybe a little more detail on what makes a Viltrumite a Supermanlite being.

Viltrumites

Viltrumites are a humanoid race that discovered a way to change their DNA into Smart Atom DNA. Smart Atoms is the "Ki" of Invincible characters powers. Its like normal Atoms, but they can do specific things that break physics really. In this case grant Viltrumites the following powers.

  • Super Strength
  • Super Durability
  • Super Speed
  • Super Stamina
  • Flight
  • Super Healing
  • Super Long Life

Basic stuff, and outside the last two things, Sayains have the same powers per Strength, Speed, Stamina, Flight, Durability via Ki. Sayain have range attacks. Powerful Ki beams and explosions. Where Viltrumites have a advantage with Smart Atom healing factor, ability to fight/travel in space, and way better travel speed. So its a fairly even match. Both sides are skilled fighters too. Omni Man was train in hand to hand combat and a veteran of more crazy wacky powerful enemies than the Sayains fought at this point in time. Mark is not fully train fighter, but learn enough from his Father and other Heroes to know how to fight other train fighters and hold his own.

So lets talk real talk. The match, this CaV will be determine by the following key points.

  1. Can Viltrumites tank and deal with energy attacks?
  2. Who is stronger and more durable in hand to hand?
  3. Who is faster?
  4. Can Sayain deal with fighting in space where this match WILL end up?

These are the real key points, and only things that matter. Well, lets answer these questions.

Ki Attacks

Most Ki attacks are mountain level, if that. They dont seem to burn that hot. In the Manga and TV Show Lava is a HUGE deal for Z fighters, but they tank Ki attacks all day long. So what gives? they are not that hot. Simple as that. More kinetic force it seems by how they work.

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Viltrumites can withstand the second hottest part of the sun, the Corona, and then battle on the surface of the sun for good long while. They can tank heats so extreme it vaporizes physical matter in seconds like with Vegas.

Yet Mark and Nolan can tank all of this. So heats not the issue. Just the kinetic force of it. So can Mark and Nolan tank the attack if they land? Yes. Above we see Solar Ejections and Solar Flares hitting the Viltrumites who tank it, though to be fair this is the two strongest Viltrumites and I am using slightly weaker versions but not so much weaker this feat does not hold. Both Mark and Nolan can dodge the attacks too. They fought users of range powers many times already as well.

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Nolan himself is the one to imprison Space Rider, and like Thragg above all Viltrumites know to dodge the lightspeed Space Rider blasts.

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Nolan himself never tag again by Supremes Beta Vision attacks, attacks that match Frieza Saga ki blasts fine.

Supreme Beta Vision blasts a super large clean hole, and warps the foundation of this large super prison.

Supreme uses Beta Vision to vaporize this "world unto itself" mining station into dust. A ship whose scale is shown to the planet it is harvesting.

So I dont see Ki attacks being to much a issue, more so when the Bullrushing speed and Hand to Hand will be focuse on by my team.

Strength and Durability

Oh boy, here is where DBZ falters IMO. The feats from Invincible show and comics show a vastly higher strength range. Here is some "minor" strength feats.

At his weakest, Mark began work out routines to increase his power by benching 400 tons daily.

Mark even before the work outs is able to lift well over 1000+ tons with ease.

Mark lifts a corner of a multi story building while severally injured and on a bad leg. Can I even see Frieza Saga characters doing any of this?

Mark carving up mountains.

Mark and Conquest slam each other so hard to generate a shock wave that sends flying 100s of tons of rubble and construction equipment. More impressive than anything strength wise in Vegeta vs Goku blows on each other.

This feat does not get enough attention at all. This is Conquest, someone Omni Man and Mark are equals too per timeline I am using. Conquest in this feat is encase in solid steel, 500 tons of it. Encase as in unable to move a inch. He flexes a little, and breaks the steel block, and then flies through miles of earth that fell in on him fine after breaking the prison. With no issues.

This is all lower end stuff too. The higher end feats involve scaling, but we do that here. The scaling, more so as I know your team will need to scale so mine can too, and when those arguments come I will get into that. As of now, the Viltrumites might chop Vegeta and Goku up to pieces. I mean Vegeta at his strongest lost a tail to a Samurai Sword.

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Vegeta was fully powered so the argument of he had no Ki or his Ki Shields were down is not valid. He was fully powered and in the middle of fighting. All defenses up. Sword cuts tail fine.

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Immortal is very Durable being too, and Omni man still cuts him to pieces. I dont see the Sayain handling this at all.

Speed

Speed wise my team is mostly lowballed on these forums. Well thats a croc. They have proven and shown FTL speed for traveling galaxies. "But but, its travel speed." Yes kinda and yet we still have plenty of feats its reaction too.

Its flat out stated they are affected by time dilation when moving at high speeds, granting the reaction times that comes with near light to FTL speeds. When moving at these speed, time slows down to a crawl. Thats reaction feats. Stated. Its flat out scientific proven facts. Last scan states specifically that their bodies attain these speeds near instant time frames. As in they will the speed then it happens instantly. Its not some build up. The speeds they travel is accomplish with Subspace teleportion in their atoms/dna. Thats how they move faster than light.

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They do this in combat all the time as Mark stated his Father seem to appear and disappear all over the battlefield via his combat speed.

Omni Man totally stomp blitz the Guardians. Notice Red Rush who is so fast that he can save people, fight villains across the city of Moscow, and hold a conversation with his girlfriend who NEVER SAW HIM MOVING AT ALL! Red Rush also states in Show a single conversation is like a infinite long time to stay still. He always has his reaction speed on, seeing the world in slow motion all the time! Red rush has proven Combat speeds and reaction speed here. Yet..... Blitzed!

And before people try to say, "well Invincible is tag all the time by foes, and never blitzes anyone." False. Mark blitzes plenty of people, however he also holds back alot of the times believing in not trying to kill.

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As stated in handbook, Mark speed ignores Inertia, meaning he does not need to "speed up" to get fast. He can instantly go fast, but he has to will it. Key word, "will it". In comic he also explains when holding back to not kill he is slower. Omni Man, has no issue to kill others. Like zero.

Battle in Space

Yeah your guys have Ki range attacks, its useful, mine has Space. Its even more useful.

Here is several exmplaes of Mark doing just that. Its a running gag in Skybound to takes powerful foes into space. The reason being is most foes either cannot fly or breath in space. The Sayains are the later. They cannot breath in space. The moment the Sayain duo show too much destruction to earth or threaten to blow it up, the fight is over. They will be blitz into the moon.

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Then die from no oxygen. They cant hold their breaths more than few minuets much less have a breath of air after a solid punch unlike my team who can hold their breaths for two weeks.

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Game right there.

So yeah all in all I feel Viltrumites are Superior. The Anime Filler feats will come in for casual planet busting, but then I have the scaling feats for that from Canon Crossover Comics to match. So lets see where this goes from here.

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kaijuking

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Morningstar999

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#11  Edited By Morningstar999
...T4V.
...T4V.

Mountain level ki blasts...kill me.

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kaijuking

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@morningstar999: yeah becuase they blow up the planet with every blast. Just as Thor, Supreme, and Superman punch worlds out with every punch. No one saying they cant blow up worlds as I aknowledge it. The average fire power is city to mountain level in the Manga and Anime. Im sure no amount of persuasion from me will change your mind either way. You can vote DB team after were done.

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kaijuking

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#15  Edited By kaijuking

Oh boy. Already everyone wants to interupt this match and derail it with their oponions. Well fuk. Guess this wont finish and it hasnt even started. And people wonder why DBZ was always banned on CV matches.😞

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kaijuking

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@mrbrucewayne21: @areneacaulem: @d1111212: @sauce_god31: @deathhero61: Yeah Im canceling already. Already troll posts and interruptions, this is not worth it. Invincible has a huge club of haters on this site, and DBZ is, well DBZ in its fanbase.

@balgoparks: Its not going to work and their will be no unbias voting. I really doubt anyone will aknowledge the high ends Mark and Nolan have now with the last two asshole posts above. I dont see the point wasting my time to type, get feats, ect for it to fall on deaf ears. Maybe few years from now when Invincible as a show get more respect and popularity for Invincible fans on this site.

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AllStarSuperman

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Don’t be so quick to call this. It would have resulted in me actually reading a CaV with DB characters…..

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kaijuking

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deactivated-62bb20d3566c2

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It would have been an interesting CaV and I'm sure both debaters would have made a case for the characters they're representing, but in my opinion team 2 stomps and it would have been hard to debate against.

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Belando

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People shouldn't interfere like this. It's fine to give compliments and perhaps advice, but calling an argument bad or worse before voting is very unnecessary.

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BalgoParks

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@kaijuking: Ah, I see. Unfortunate. Watching/Reading Invincible, Viltrumites reminded me a lot of Saiyans and thought it would be a fun match

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deactivated-610a41ad42f50

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@eredin12 said:

@kaijuking: This was just my opinion about some things that you said Fizz , if it is problem i will delete it instantly, by all means, do continue this, i don't want you to quit it because i found some things stupid. I have no hate towards invincible either, i was only referring to some things you said about the DBZ team.

Fizz? As in SirFizzWhizz?

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Zetsu-San

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@kaijuking: Don’t cancel. smh

Also, should have been Nolan, Thragg, and Conquest vs Vegita, Nappa, and Radditz.

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RBT

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You guys still expect unbiased voting in CaVs?

Cute

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Chungus5555

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Imagine doing CaVs.

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defiant_will

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lmao

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Antebellum

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Debate of Gods.

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kaijuking

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Fizz? As in SirFizzWhizz?

Yes. Whats up.

@kaijuking: Don’t cancel. smh

Also, should have been Nolan, Thragg, and Conquest vs Vegita, Nappa, and Radditz.

Thragg is unfair by scaling to Omni Man. Omni Man, Anissa, and Conquest be cool. Enough feats there I think.

@belando said:

People shouldn't interfere like this. It's fine to give compliments and perhaps advice, but calling an argument bad or worse before voting is very unnecessary.

Thats why it was canceled. Uncalled for. They could wait till voting to just bias vote me.

@rbt said:

You guys still expect unbiased voting in CaVs?

Cute

Damn you still on this site? Nice.

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Sauce_God31

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#34  Edited By Sauce_God31

Damn I was looking forward to this, you know you can Prohibit certain ppl from voting if they come off as bias right or you could simply not count a vote if they don’t present a good enough reasoning @kaijuking

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cocacolaman

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#35 cocacolaman  Moderator

Shame, Fizz is bar none the best indie comic debater I've read CaVs of on this site

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Zetsu-San

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@kaijuking: Would that make Radditz the female Saiyan for the trio?

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kaijuking

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#37  Edited By kaijuking

@mrbrucewayne21: @allstarsuperman: @noobmaster2001: @belando: @eredin12: @sauce_god31: @zetsu-san: @cocacolaman: @d1111212: @deathhero61: My friend told me to stop being a little bitch and just do it. So I am.

Just to clarify, I know DBZ are planet busters. I was discussing feats where they show normal mountain busting attacks. @balgoparks: Im sure can counter any stupidity I spew onto the thread.

So just wait till the debate finishes, and then you can let me know how wrong I am lol. Just wait to the end. Im use to losing these things, I ask only to wait to the end.

Your turn Balgoparks.

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kaijuking

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@kaijuking: Would that make Radditz the female Saiyan for the trio?

.... yes. Yes I would.

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Hellespont

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@kaijuking: Had no idea you’re sirfizzwhizz, really cool to be able to debate you in our CaV. I’ve been reading your stuff for a long time.

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kaijuking

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#40  Edited By kaijuking

@hellespont said:

@kaijuking: Had no idea you’re sirfizzwhizz, really cool to be able to debate you in our CaV. I’ve been reading your stuff for a long time.

Im mediocre of a debater, nowhere near the greats like Jashro (beaten me every Tourney/CaV) or Wyldsong (beaten me every thread period) or even @ghostravage who also beaten me every CaV. Those guys are good.

But thanks for the compliment. I try to spot light more unknown characters in debates.

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BalgoParks

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@kaijuking: Oh, cool. So we're back on? Great! I'll try to have my post up within a few days

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Hellespont

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@kaijuking: Give yourself more credit man, your in the hall of fame for a reason. Also T4V here.

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Greysentinel365

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TAEP

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kaijuking

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@kaijuking: Give yourself more credit man, your in the hall of fame for a reason. Also T4V here.

I arrogantly use that every now and then, including recent put downs on Goldchamp, being HOF is not measure of success. For me it measures more people remember me, which Im content with. Thanks for the kind words though.

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Darksunshine

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I wonder how people even people call this guy as the best indie debator ROFL. This post is dogshit OMG no offense but the points here are absolutely terrible

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Morningstar999

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@darksunshine: Did you read dat? "Most Ki blasts are mountain level" lmfao.

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Darksunshine

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@morningstar999: True I believe that this is thread derailing anyway. I want to see this CAV move forward especially after reading kaijuking's premise

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