CaV: Unalaq & Tonraq (Pr0tocol) vs Azula, Mai & Ty Lee (ANTHP2000) (WINNER Pr0tocol)

Water Tribe Brothers (represented by @pr0tocol) vs Ozai's Angels (represented by me, @anthp2000)

The battle takes place at the Misty Palms Inn:

• Vote for the better debater, not the team you think wins
• Unalaq doesn't have Dark Avatar State
• Azula is sane
• Mai has unlimited equipment
• No comic feats allowed
• Time is noon (neither sun nor moon)
  

  

  

MAY THE BEST DEBATER WIN!

Some people that might want to be tagged:

@pr0tocol: My first CaV! Really excited! Thanx for tagging them. Alright. I'll need about a day or so to make a post for Azula first. And then for Mai and Ty Lee individually. I'll post when I'm finished. You can post whenever you're ready before or after me. Good luck!

Hmmm interesting

Well it's more fair then the last few Avatar CaVs Ive been tagged for. TFV

tag

Happy to hear that :)

Cool. I am looking forward to this

t4v

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T4V

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@anthp2000: Going to edit out some non related parts cause I don't feel like continuing it in the next post.

Presenting The Chief of the Northern Tribe, The Dark Avatar himself.. UNALAQ

While admitedly, Azula can compare to Unalaq and despite his limited showings, I believe he to be the superior in this regard. Unalaq's water hurts, I mean yes most can say that.. but Unalaq was literally destroying Bolin's rocks with a very small amount of water.

Water is also it itself a pretty good counter to fire as long as there is ample water to use, and while yes this doesn't stop the best Firebenders from overcoming this, Unalaq is no ordinary Waterbender himself. He's simultaneously destroyed both rocks from Bolin and destroyed a pretty huge blast from Mako (who doesn't get enough credit).

However, there is always Lightning to counter Waterbending, however Unalaq will never actually let her get it off. Azula has to charge her lightning, and Unalaq is very capable of not giving her the chance to do so.

Hell, even Mako who can do it instantly never used it, but you could argue thats do to plot/morals.. the fate of the world was at stake though which is kind of a pretty good reason to use it, but whatever.

Presenting The Chief of the Southern Tribe, The Father of the Avatar... TONRAQ

This is the 2v1 of the match, but I think Tonraq can handle it.

A big advantage Tonraq has over his opponents is obviously Waterbending, nothing really to dispute there, but how powerful is said Waterbending?

Well, with the help of two random northern tribe waterbenders, they were capable of this:

He's also capable of using controlled bursts in combat.

However, the best part of Tonraq is his physical prowess, He is one of the most physically imposing guys in the series up there with Iroh and Bumi.

He's got a very in your face style of waterbending, which I believe can overwhelm the duo. Similar to below, Tonraq is literally punching through giant boulders of Ice Unalaq made.

Yeah, you could chalk that up to waterbending combined with strength as Korra has done some similar stuff with rocks. However Korra has only done it with natural already existing rocks and not something that a more powerful bender made, on top of this IIRC whenever Korra did it, the entire rock shattered unlike when Tonraq would just punch through sections of the ice indicating Korra was bending and Tonraq was not.

Unalaq has shown that he can easily overpower his brothers bending (which is why he's running at him instead of bending) and combined with the fact that Tonraq has legitimately broke his icefists by punching the ground so hard they shattered:

I think its a fair assessment that he is ridiculously strong.

That should do as an opener for now.

T4V...

@pr0tocol: Good, I'll post mine really soon.

@pr0tocol:A lot of gifs incoming!

Introducing the Princess of the Fire Nation, Azula

"Almost isn't good enough!"
Abilities and Skills in battle
Firebending

Azula has shown mastery in firebending throughout the whole series. Being the great grandaughter of Avatar Roku and Firelord Sozin is a great explanation for both her trademark, Blue Fire, and her prodigious firebending abilities since childhood. Although not really important or confirmed for the world of Avatar, Blue Fire is both hotter and more explosive than normal yellow, red or orange, that other firebenders use. Let's take a closer look at her firebending skills and techniques:

Azula was the most creative (fire)bender in ATLAS, using her fire to create flaming disks or make cut straight through objects. While those aren't particularly powerful moves, they are just signs of her high-level skills:

The techniques below though, show why she is more than match even for someone like Unalaq:

A couple of other techniques that would be really helpful in this battle:

Azula has also showed mastery in fire-shields and esspecially against waterbending attacks:

Finally, the attacks shown above (the ones that KOed Aang) were charged. But still, Azula doesn't need charging to shoot strong fire blasts.
The fields I'll cover below, are Raw Power, Size and Range of her flames:

She has shown excellence in raw power:

Now for the great size of her flames:

Azula's range of attacks is also great:

Lightningbending

By the beginning of Book 1, Azula had mastered lightning generation, a skill incredibly rare at her time that only two other firebenders had demonstrated, and both of them were considered the strongest.

Sure, in training Azula took her time to generate lightning. But in battle.....

Not only that, but her lightning has incredibly explosive power. If Azula charges, even if Unalaq manages to avoid the shot, there are possibilities that he will get severely injured at least for seconds, giving her time to finish him.

Agility, speed, reflexes, strategy, H2H combat and endurance

Azula was easily better than almost anyone in the Avatar World in all of those fields that have great importance in battle.

Agility & Speed
Starting off with her agility and speed, possibly the most important one of these things as well as her best one. Not much needed to be said here. Easily the second most agile person in ATLAS outside of airbenders:

"She's too fast! I can't beat her down!" - Aang

She also combines her superior agility with her firebending in various occasions:

Reflexes
Her reflexes were incredibly fast. Top notch actually, being able to fight against Aang and Zuko or against Aang, Katara and Sokka that had her surrounded, all at the same time. Important note is that in both of these short fights, she was in the most difficult position:

Above, we can see why she can counter or avoid almost everything Unalaq can throw at her.

Strategy
Azula was also a master strategist as shown in various occasions. For example when she conquered Bang Sing Se and the whole Earth Kingdom in an extent. Months later she protected the whole Fire Nation capitol from the invasion. She tricked many people including Zuko, Long Feng, Sokka and the rest of Team Avatar. If she has time to propose a plan in this battle, she will most likely win.

H2HCombat
Azula was incredibly skilled in hand to hnd combat as she was able to easily beat Zuko without the use of any bending, as well as best Suki, one of the strongest non-benders in the series. She was also armed with at least one dagger, similar to Mai's, as a weapon for difficult situations like the Eclipse.

Endurance
As for her endurance, people tend to forget a couple of things:
Remember back in the Drill when this happened?

Well, about a minute later, Azula was seeing doing this like nothing happened to her:

Or in the last Agni Kai when Azula was crazy? An emotionally and physically exhausted Azula got hits by Zuko's enchanged attack. She immediately got up and generated lightning as well as shot lightning and fire blasts all over the place to kill Katara.

Fan Fuct: At the invasion Azula demonstrated incredible agility as well as a dagger as a weapon. Things she most probably picked up by Ty Lee and Mai respectively.

Counters:

"While admitedly, Azula can compare to Unalaq and despite his limited showings, I believe he to be the superior in this regard. Unalaq's water hurts, I mean yes most can say that.. but Unalaq was literally destroying Bolin's rocks with a very small amount of water."

Yes, his waterbending's raw power is above ordinary or even master waterbenders, but as shown above Azula's raw power is at least as excellent. Her blasts are explosive. If they don't stalemate in power, then Azula would most likely surpass him. After all Azula's fire has destroyed roks more powerful than Bolin's numerous times as well. Of course water destroying rocks is even more impressive but it doesn't make a difference. Ordinary water's raw power is surpassed by Azula's flames, so Unalaq's water stalemates her at best. After all, she did evaporate Katara's wave in the Crystal Catacombs:

"Water is also it itself a pretty good counter to fire as long as there is ample water to use, and while yes this doesn't stop the best Firebenders from overcoming this, Unalaq is no ordinary Waterbender himself. He'ssimultaneously destroyed both rocks from Bolin and destroyed a pretty huge blast from Mako (who doesn't get enough credit)."

Same as above. Of course we might say that fire is also a great counter to water judging from Azula's huge shield above. I can safely assume that they stalemate in raw power mainly because of this:

Her uncharged fire here, worked like a medium sized bomb. Unalaq can't surpass that. She would litteraly blow Mako's and Bolin's attacks even better than Unalaq did.

"However, there is always Lightning to counter Waterbending, however Unalaq will never actually let her get it off. Azula has to charge her lightning, and Unalaq is very capable of not giving her the chance to doing so."

Of course, Unalaq is very capable of doing so, considering he is incredibly fast as well. That still doesn't change the fact that all Azula has to do is get some cover for 2 or 3 seconds. Yes, clearly this is incredibly hard against him but there are roofs all around. Although this most probably won't happen Azula has many things to counter this, which is indeed incredible:

Starting off, Azula is more agile than Korra and will easily dodge this as she did. Then I can imagine her propeling in the sky and attacking him with something from her aerial blasts:

Other scenarios, include her getting on one of the roofs in order to even him in height. This way she can fire normally while on the ground. Another possibility is that she will shoot fire at the base of that whirlpool-thing in order to force Unalaq down. That last one is really hard though.

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I'll post for Mai and Ty Lee soon. I'll be waiting for your reply.

The spoiler texts are a ilttle messed up, esspecially at the third one. Sorry. I tried to fix it bit I can't...I also got an error and had to copy and paste and then reorganise everything....

@pr0tocol:

Presenting the daughter of a noble man, Mai

"-Sight-"
Abilities and Skills in battle:
Knife Throwing

Mai had a huge amount of equipment like Daggers, Arrows and knives that she throws with deadly percision. Here are some feats that prove how incredible her accuracy was:

This time she could have even kill Katara if she wanted to:

Below, we see her single-handedly defeating more than 10 firebenders with ease:

At the drill when she and Ty Lee went to take down the Terra Team, Mai threw 12 daggers in different directions with one single throw while sliding off the drill. This proves how dangerous she can be with unlimited equipment:

Agility

@pr0tocol

Presenting the lovely Circus Freak, Ty Lee

"My aura has never being pinker"
Abilities and Skills in battle
Chi Blocking

The most skilled non-bender and the only comparable one to proficient benders, Ty Lee is the first Chi Blocker in the AvatarVerse. She has knowledge on the weak pressure points of the body and quickly strikes the opponent there blocking their Chi eventually taking their bending away for a short period of time as well as leaving them paralyzed or even unconscious. The results can be seen below when she chi blocked a Kyoshi Warrior:

One time she even left unconscious Katara with only one simple touch! This proves how dangerous she is if she gets close to the opponent. Probably instant KO:

Here she takes down 24 Elite Earthbenders known as the Terra Team in seconds! She easily avioded every attack and left them on the ground:

Agility

Ty Lee is the most agile person in both ATLAS and LOK outside of airbenders. She is a master acrobat and has incredible speed and reflexes. She is unmatched on that field. She avoids most attacks thrown at her with ease:

Here, she was able to easily be left unharmed by Toph's surprise attack. She acted almost like an airbender.

She is able to jump exceptionally high even countering Katara's giant wave on her own water source. She can handle Tonraq's waves.

The woman makes running on ropes above boiled water look as easy as stealing candy from a baby:

Why I thnk May and Ty Lee win over Tonraq:

Sure, Tonraq is obviously a waterbender with great skill and he has the bending advantage but he is outnumbered. However, this advantage never stopped Mai and Ty Lee from winning battles like against Katara, another waterbender, as well as Sokka twice. The Water Tribe siblings were saved by Appa both times. Both girls and esspecially Ty Lee are more agile than Tonraq and can dodge most things he throws at them and counter attack. Mai's deadly accuracy will keep Tonraq busy (because if he turns around he gets stabbed) while Ty Lee comes to chi block him from behind. It's exactly what happened when the girls beat Katara at Omashu. They have perfect timing and teamwork. They can beat Tonraq a similar way:

@pr0tocol: You need more time?

@anthp2000: May the best debater win? If that is the case... You have already lost. This is a mismatch in favor of the water barbarians and your posts have way too many typos.

@anthp2000: Ill get to in a few days, maybe today, im in some other stuff as well.

You choose for that to be your first post on the Vine. Are you an alt by any chance, sir?

What exactly do you mean? Even if you support a team to win that's not the point of the CaV. I believe I made that clear. And how important was it to call me out that you had to make an account for it? I can assume that you didn't make an account for this but still. Are you serious?

Ok, no problem.

@anthp2000: Better debating from Pr0tocol even with one post.

Ok, thank you but the CaV isn't finished yet and it is my first try so stop being so hard on me. I'd gladly appreciate some feedback at the end. And don't act like an experienced debater cause you ust created an account probably just to call me out. And you can vote at the end. Up until then, try keeping your opinions to yourself please.

@anthp2000: Short post, that picture of Mai is very pretty.

Unalaq vs Azula

Yes, his waterbending's raw power is above ordinary or even master waterbenders, but as shown above Azula's raw power is at least as excellent. Her blasts are explosive. If they don't stalemate in power, then Azula would most likely surpass him. After all Azula's fire has destroyed roks more powerful than Bolin's numerous times as well. Of course water destroying rocks is even more impressive but it doesn't make a difference. Ordinary water's raw power is surpassed by Azula's flames, so Unalaq's water stalemates her at best. After all, she did evaporate Katara's wave in the Crystal Catacombs:

While Azula is more impressive then I remember and this raw power is more even then I thought, Unalaq is legitimately the best [Non-Avatar] Waterbender we've seen in the series. He completely beat Korra, and honestly had the upperhand for most of the fight when she was in the Avatar State.

However, while Azula is very explosive with her ability, Unalaq is very strong with his, unnaturally strong. Below he is moving who knows how many dozens of tons of Ice easily overpowering Korra, who was a natural born Waterbender herself, forcing her to go into the Avatar State to even have a hope of surviving.

Of course, Unalaq is very capable of doing so, considering he is incredibly fast as well. That still doesn't change the fact that all Azula has to do is get some cover for 2 or 3 seconds.

While plausible that she could get into cover, her options are limited:

1. On a roof
2. Behind a building

Lets say she goes on a building, They aren't very high themselves and honestly if she goes up there, Unalaq will most likely go into his Water Tornado thing and actually have the height advantage.

Note how quickly he can summon it

Or if doesn't feel like it, Hes got some pretty good agility himself

Once he does see her though, hes got some good abilities to keep her on her feet constantly moving:

And:

If she takes the second option and gets behind a building, I'm pretty sure the height of his tornado would allow him to peer over it, but if it doesn't..

Doesn't Azula move pretty slow once lightning is charging? Even in the gifs you posted, she isn't moving and I honestly cant remember. Even if she doesn't, those 2-3 seconds she is charging up out of sight? Unalaq has already decimated Ty Lee and Mai because Azula has lost his focus.

Tonraq vs Ty Lee & Mai

Mai's deadly accuracy will keep Tonraq busy (because if he turns around he gets stabbed) while Ty Lee comes to chi block him from behind. It's exactly what happened when the girls beat Katara at Omashu. They have perfect timing and teamwork. They can beat Tonraq a similar way:

This would imply Tonraq isn't aware of Ty Lee. Also, Tonraq has a lot more Water to work with then what Katara had.

Mai's deadly accuracy will keep Tonraq busy

Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Yea, Mai got better with her projectile accuracy later on and DOES have feats of tagging some notable people like Katara, but theres also feats of a sleep deprived Sokka deflecting them:

The same Sokka at that point who got one shot by Zuko without bending. Tonraq will also be much harder to hit then their average opponent, hes more then capable of using waterbending to amp his agility while simultaneously making a large amount of walls.

Like I said before, He could even create a wall to split you guys up to make it easier on himself

If it is taken to CQC or whatever, He's capable of using Water whip-hand things like Ming-Hua and Kya to fight.

Gallery

[Both of these are gifs, just click on them]

He was even capable of tagging Zaheer at one point, and yeah, Korra helped but the guy was an Airbender, I mean come on.

Yeah, Ty Lee might be able to hit Tonraq, but like I said before he was a physical beast, while Ty Lee has hurt her hand punching Sokka. Yeah admittedly it was his head, but Tonraq a grown man probably four times older then a prepubescent Sokkas and is just on another physical level then the girls (strength wise).

While Tonraq has stayed conscious after getting sit flying dozens of feet from a ice blow from Unalaq and slammed right into the hard ground. (Unalaq froze him right after, and he opened his eyes showing he was concious.. Unalaq proceeded to fuck him up)

Before that Sokka gif, a once again Sleep deprived Sokka was capable of reacting to multiple of her blows. Tonraq who is an ACTUAL Warrior who has honed his skills in numerous battles, wars and etc just wont fall in the same way.

@pr0tocol:

Unalaq vs Azula

"While Azula is more impressive then I remember and this raw power is more even then I thought, Unalaq is legitimately the best [Non-Avatar] Waterbender we've seen in the series. He completely beat Korra, and honestly had the upperhand for most of the fight when she was in the Avatar State."

Meeeh, I wouldn't call hi the best but he is a master and one of the best for sure. He was using his Dark Avatar State in order to get the uper hand against her a cuople of times. He would lose otherwise. But anyway:

"However, while Azula is very explosive with her ability, Unalaq is very strong with his, unnaturally strong. Below he is moving who knows how many dozens of tons of Ice easily overpowering Korra, who was a natural born Waterbender herself, forcing her to go into the Avatar State to even have a hope ofsurviving."
That still doesn't put him above Azula in the power of blasts though. You know, fire blasts vs water blasts. It's just a sign of how skilled and strong he is as a bender overall.

Alright, Azula won't be able to charge her lightning but in order for Unalaq to not let her, he has to attack her non-stop. Not leave her even 3 seconds because they could prove deadly. That leaves him no time to rest for some seconds. Azula's shields are enough to block his water attacks and her offense can break through his with a couple of blasts like that one she fired at Zuko.

She should be able to counter the water blasts he was throwing at Mako and Bolin if she could evaporate that giant monster thrown at her.
Considering that he at best stalemates her in offense and she has the clear advantage on defense, if they go head on and start trade blasts, Azula would beat him.
But even if he chooses to use other tactics and go for the water tornado, Azula is fast and agile enough to dodge his blasts from up there and go on a roof to hit him right to the core. Not hit the tornado, but the person inside.

Tonraq vs Ty Lee & Mai

"This would imply Tonraq isn't aware of Ty Lee. Also, Tonraq has a lot more Water to work with then what Katara had."
Sure, he does have more water. But he won't be able to do all the things he did in the water tribe if he wants his teammate to have enough water to counter Azula, who is able to evaporate his blasts most of the time. But even though he is aware of Ty Lee he won't be able to harm her when he will be busy blocking Mai's projectiles which are severely deadly. At best he can freeze Mai and immobilize her from toe to top. This is still enough time for Ty Lee to get close. If this wasn't a kids show she would have killed so many people :P

"Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Yea, Mai got better with her projectile accuracy later on and DOES have feats of tagging some notable people like Katara, but theres also feats of a sleep deprived Sokka deflectingthem"
Yeah, Sokka did and while he was sleppy but Sokka also killed Combustion Man. Does that make him stronger than Combustion Man? Nope. Just like this doesn't make him stronger than Mai. He just has an advantage against them. She didn't even try here. She threw like 3 arrows at him a couple of times. If Mai wants to she can do this:

Throw 12 daggers in a really good distance from each other with one instant strike. Sokka's bommenrang certainly isn't enough for that. With unlimited equipment it will certainly keep Tonraq busy. Sure, there's no way Mai would solo him. The plan is for her to keep him busy to let Ty Lee get close.

"Like I said before, He could even create a wall to split you guys up to make it easier onhimself"
He still needs a lot of water to do that. He was able to do something like that while in the Southern Water Tribe. Not in a place where he'll have to share a big pool with another waterbender who will most likely use half of the water himself. That also implies that the girls are standing on snow / water / ice floor, which isn't the case. It would be much harder if not impossible to use that against them here.

"If it is taken to CQC or whatever, He's capable of using Water whip-hand things like Ming-Hua and Kya to fight."
That's probably his stronger card in this fight, still not unstoppable. Notice that Zaheer was caught by surprise and was still able to dodge it. Ty Lee would be in a clear head to head fight and would be able to dodge it. His water-whip hands aren't at the level of Katara, Ming Hua or Kya. They are a lot shorter thus allowing Ty Lee to overcome after some acrobatics.

"He was even capable of tagging Zaheer at one point, and yeah, Korra helped but the guy was an Airbender, I mean come on."
Even as an airbender, Zaheer doesn't have more dodging feats than Ty Lee on the ground. Sure, as an airbender he can run on walls and jump higher but on the ground he isn't really that better. Ty Lee's agility is near his level with the only difference being that she can't run on walls and stuff like that. Even if Tonraq tags her, thing that I doubt, there's still Mai to help Ty Lee get away and get the battle going.

"Yeah, Ty Lee might be able to hit Tonraq, but like I said before he was a physical beast, while Ty Lee has hurt her hand punching Sokka. Yeah admittedly it was his head, but Tonraq a grown man probably four times older then a prepubescent Sokkas and is just on another physical level then the girls (strength wise)."
Yeah, Ty Lee instantly immobilized Sokka and many others on many occasions. Even if something like that happens and he doesn't get instantly paralyzed he won't be able to bend. Even as a physical beast strength-wise, he won't be able to fight the two best martial artists in AvatarVerse (The creators called them that themseves by saying: They're not gifted with bending abilities but their knowledge at the martial arts is unmatched). Plus, his physical strenth won't be able to harm Ty Lee since physical strenth as shown many times isn't something that speed, agility, martial arts and intelligence can't dea with in the Avatar World. Various occasions, Ty Lee taking down 24 muscle guys in seconds, Azula besting Zuko with no bending and many others. Also, physical strength is not to be confused with chi. Ty Lee blocks your chi no matter how strong you are. Tonraq has great endurance, but what you need against chi blocking isn't endurance. Ty Lee doesn't hit you to cause you pain, but to make you useless and immobilize you.

"Before that Sokka gif, a once again Sleep deprived Sokka was capable of reacting to multiple of her blows. Tonraq who is an ACTUAL Warrior who has honed his skills in numerous battles, wars and etc just wont fall in the same way."
He is still useless against the girls without bending and with parts of his body paralyzed. Ty Lee is even able for something like that:

Sure, Katara doesn't have the physical strenth of Sokka or Tonraq, but that doesn't make her Chi weaker. Ty Lee strikes Chi. Not strenth. She left her unconsious with one simple touch. Tonraq's best bet is to not let her touch him, really difficult esspecially tagged with Mai for backup.

This is really fun BTW :p

@anthp2000:

Meeeh, I wouldn't call hi the best but he is a master and one of the best for sure. He was using his Dark Avatar State in order to get the uper hand against her a cuople of times. He would lose otherwise. But anyway:

Untill he actually turned into UnaVaatu, there was nothing suggesting he wasn't doing anything with his own power, Yes his eyes glowed at the start, but since it should follow the same rules as Ravaa, when his eyes weren't glowing like they would be in his Avatar state, it should be his own power as well, just like a normal Avatar.

Maybe you'd like to watch the fight again, but Unalaq was clearly above normal Korra and matched Avatar State for a while. He eventually "lost" by having his arms frozen by Korra in a tug of war, but nobody no matter how powerful they are in their respective element will be able to flat out beat an Avatar in the avatar state. Not Ozai, Amon, Unalaq, Azula, Kuvira or etc.

That still doesn't put him above Azula in the power of blasts though. You know, fire blasts vs water blasts. It's just a sign of how skilled and strong he is as a bender overall.

Thats what I'm saying though, just look at how strong he is. Like in my first post, he flat out destroyed Bolin's shit, and while this isn't the best feat ever, there are very few instances I can think of that a Waterbender could destroy rocks with such a low amount of water. He's flatout overpowered Tonraq's control of water to the point he stopped bending altogether in their fight.

Alright, Azula won't be able to charge her lightning but in order for Unalaq to not let her, he has to attack her non-stop

He doesn't have to attack her non-stop, He'd only have to attack her every 2 seconds. Like I said in my last post (I'm not sure if you missed it or If I did), Azula has to stop moving to channel her lightning (from what I remember, feel free to correct that). That leaves a stationary target for three seconds if she starts, I'm not sure if shes ever had to abort the channel but even if she can, it only forces her more on the defensive.

Considering that he at best stalemates her in offense and she has the clear advantage on defense, if they go head on and start trade blasts, Azula would beat him.

I wouldn't say she has the advantage on the defense, as while she might be able to defend more, like your gif shows, she blinds her self unable to actually see Katara after it. Unalaq would make a wall, which he could easily tower with his tornado to peer over still allowing him to attack freely, and even if he had to make it big enough that he couldn't to block her, he can easily just get rid of it faster then her fire. (The instance is small in this gif as the area is very panned out, but you can clearly see Unalaq make a huge wall blocking a similar blast the size of the Azula gif you posted)

He's easily dodged a huge fireblast from Korra, then overpowered another and easily recovered from her waterbending sneak attack. Note: All of this was done by Korra in the Avatar State

But even if he chooses to use other tactics and go for the water tornado, Azula is fast and agile enough to dodge his blasts from up there and go on a roof to hit him right to the core. Not hit the tornado, but the person inside.

As you can see, Korra tried something similar above, and she was being amped by the Avatar State + Air, Yes Azula might be slightly more agile Korra but that advantage is very miniscule in comparison to the advantages Korra had. Now the buildings themselves are obstacles, but I honestly believe that Unalaq could just.. destroy them. Something similar to so:

He just cuts right through like a dozen giant ice boulders Korra sent his way, and we've seen what happens when his water his Bolin's rocks.

While I initially posted the Unalaq vs Mako and Korra feat as a feat of power (I mean holding off two amazing benders with a pouch, come on), its also very noteworthy of speed as well, as you can see him easily block Korra's blasts and then elegantly side-step Mako's while simultaneously taking him out. That shows a lot of calculation, skill and speed. Another noteworthy feat is below, side stepping three pretty good sized blasts from once again, an Avatar State Korra:

Tonraq vs Ty Lee & Mai

Sure, he does have more water. But he won't be able to do all the things he did in the water tribe if he wants his teammate to have enough water to counter Azula,

While the pool is finite, its plentiful. Tonraq mainly uses ice bending, which can always be reused.

At best he can freeze Mai and immobilize her from toe to top. This is still enough time for Ty Lee to get close.

Eh, Like you said, Mai isn't nearly as agile as the other two and she'll go down pretty quickly. Even if hes struggled in the past with Zaheer, He's still managed to tag him on the mountain and sort of stay even with him off-screen in the blizzard.

Yeah, Sokka did and while he was sleppy but Sokka also killed Combustion Man. Does that make him stronger than Combustion Man?

That sort of proves my point.. meaning her projectiles aren't the best against any noteworthy opponent. However Sokka took out the Combustion Man by literal accident, I don't see how that has any basis whatsoever.

Just like this doesn't make him stronger than Mai. He just has an advantage against them. She didn't even try here. She threw like 3 arrows at him a couple of times. If Mai wants to she can do this:

Yeah, and Tonraq can make walls as well. If Ty Lee closes the distance like she does right after that gif, shes going to be face to face with a Physical Powerhouse she might not even be able to harm. She couldn't even take out a sleep deprived Katara despite landing 2ish blows on her. Hell, we all start near the Water, he might just freeze her.

That's probably his stronger card in this fight, still not unstoppable. Notice that Zaheer was caught by surprise and was still able to dodge it. Ty Lee would be in a clear head to head fight and would be able to dodge it. His water-whip hands aren't at the level of Katara, Ming Hua or Kya. They are a lot shorter thus allowing Ty Lee to overcome after some acrobatics.

Yeah, and when she fought a sleep deprived Katara she had to switch opponents. While Ty Lee is admittedly a tier above Azula in acrobatics, We've seen what happens when Azula meets Waterhands..

Even as an airbender, Zaheer doesn't have more dodging feats than Ty Lee on the ground. Sure, as an airbender he can run on walls and jump higher but on the ground he isn't really that better. Ty Lee's agility is near his level with the only difference being that she can't run on walls and stuff like that. Even if Tonraq tags her, thing that I doubt, there's still Mai to help Ty Lee get away and get the battle going.

From reputation alone, he was already near Ty Lee level, and you can see when he escapes he has pretty good acrobatics as well. Did he do anything that constitutes above Ty Lee? Maybe not, but him being an notable Airbender puts him above her alone, much less being a guy locked up as one of the four most dangerous guys in the world without bending. Mai won't really last long, Ty Lee will.. but I don't really see Mai doing so.

Yeah, Ty Lee instantly immobilized Sokka and many others on many occasions. Even if something like that happens and he doesn't get instantly paralyzed he won't be able to bend. Even as a physical beast strength-wise, he won't be able to fight the two best martial artists in AvatarVerse (The creators called them that themseves by saying: They're not gifted with bending abilities but their knowledge at the martial arts is unmatched). Plus, his physical strenth won't be able to harm Ty Lee since physical strenth as shown many times isn't something that speed, agility, martial arts and intelligence can't dea with in the Avatar World. Various occasions, Ty Lee taking down 24 muscle guys in seconds, Azula besting Zuko with no bending and many others. Also, physical strength is not to be confused with chi. Ty Lee blocks your chi no matter how strong you are. Tonraq has great endurance, but what you need against chi blocking isn't endurance. Ty Lee doesn't hit you to cause you pain, but to make you useless and immobilize you.

Shes failed sometimes as well, or needed multiple strikes. Nobody you listed has any feat on Tonraq's level of strength, somebody that can punch through ice pretty easily with no sort of slowing down or strain whatsoever. I've also shown multiple agility feats for Tonraq, like his fight with Unalaq, and while I admit they aren't really on Azula's level let alone Ty Lee's.. He can use Waterbending to skate around being extremely hard to hit, like I posted before, but I'll do it again:

Yeah its in the south pole, but he starts near the pool. The ice is thin and reusable as well, It won't really use much water.

After your post, you can just open it up to votes.

"Untill he actually turned into UnaVaatu, there was nothing suggesting he wasn't doing anything with his own power, Yes his eyes glowed at the start, but since it should follow the same rules as Ravaa, when his eyes weren't glowing like they would be in his Avatar state, it should be his own power as well, just like a normal Avatar."

Actually, Korra's eyes were also glowing only on the beggining unlike ATLAS Avatar State. Just like Unalaq's, but that doesn't matter anyway.

"Thats what I'm saying though, just look at how strong he is. Like in my first post, he flat out destroyed Bolin's shit, and while this isn't the best feat ever, there are very few instances I can think of that a Waterbender could destroy rocks with such a low amount of water. He's flatout overpowered Tonraq's control of water to the point he stopped bending altogether in their fight."

Yeah, he has more raw power than any waterbender but not more than Azula. Maybe water is just not the element to fight fire in raw power.

"He doesn't have to attack her non-stop, He'd only have to attack her every 2 seconds. Like I said in my last post (I'm not sure if you missed it or If I did), Azula has to stop moving to channel her lightning (from what I remember, feel free to correct that). That leaves a stationary target for three seconds if she starts, I'm not sure if shes ever had to abort the channel but even if she can, it only forces her more on the defensive."

Yeah, you're probably right, but in Sozin's Comet she was able to jump really high using her fire to slightly propel with her feet while charging her lightning to hit Katara but that is arguably because she was under the effect of the Comet. If she can do it normal, it's a huge thing against the water tornado though.

"I wouldn't say she has the advantage on the defense, as while she might be able to defend more, like your gif shows, she blinds her self unable to actually see Katara after it. Unalaq would make a wall, which he could easily tower with his tornado to peer over still allowing him to attack freely, and even if he had to make it big enough that he couldn't to block her, he can easily just get rid of it faster then her fire. (The instance is small in this gif as the area is very panned out, but you can clearly see Unalaq make a huge wall blocking a similar blast the size of the Azula gif you posted)"

That didn't blind her, she certainly was able to hit her opponents right after that evaporated water's smoke:

Aang and Katara were the ones that weren't able to see her right after actually.
Korra matching Azula's flames in size doesn't mean she has more or the same raw power than uncharged hotter, explosive blasts that Azula can choose to use. They would easily break through ice considering that it made an explosion on solid ground.

"As you can see, Korra tried something similar above, and she was being amped by the Avatar State + Air, Yes Azula might be slightly more agile Korra but that advantage is very miniscule in comparison to the advantages Korra had. Now the buildings themselves are obstacles, but I honestly believe that Unalaq could just.. destroy them. Something similar to so:"

Not that similar. As you said yourself building are solid ground under Azula's feet while Korra had to battle on top of a moving tornado. Air + AS means more power. Azula doesn't need to match that tonrado in power. All she needs is a percise attack from the building's roof, and she is described as percise and deadly by both Iroh and the creators, so...

"He just cuts right through like a dozen giant ice boulders Korra sent his way, and we've seen what happens when his water his Bolin's rocks."

Well, Azula has destroyed Aang's shields various times with just one strike and she even manged to KO him while behind them defending himself. Pretty stronger than those rocks from Bolin.

"While I initially posted the Unalaq vs Mako and Korra feat as a feat of power (I mean holding off two amazing benders with a pouch, come on), its also very noteworthy of speed as well, as you can see him easily block Korra's blasts and then elegantly side-step Mako's while simultaneously taking him out. That shows a lot of calculation, skill and speed. Another noteworthy feat is below, side stepping three pretty good sized blasts from once again, an Avatar State Korra:"

It is, and he is certainly a master, much like Azula. But let's not forget that Azula has shown even better reflexes, considering that Unalaq was fighting head on while Azula was in th emiddle of a 3 way fight a couple of times and she was still able to attack all of hr foes as well as swiftly dodge their attacks:

Gallery

Tonraq vs Ty Lee & Mai

"While the pool is finite, its plentiful. Tonraq mainly uses ice bending, which can always be reused."

It can, but he still has to consider the amount of water his brother uses, that can still be evaporated by Azula's fire.

"Eh, Like you said, Mai isn't nearly as agile as the other two and she'll go down pretty quickly. Even if hes struggled in the past with Zaheer, He's still managed to tag him on the mountain and sort of stay even with him off-screen in theblizzard."

That still doesn't make her non-agile enough to distract him from Ty Lee. She has dodged some attacks ilke one from Toph and has shown some great agility and reflexes skills during her fight at the Boiling Rock. She was also able to even Ty Lee on speed. Ty Lee needs not more than mere seconds to strike and KO Tonraq as the space is really limited and we've seen haw fast she is.

"That sort of proves my point.. meaning her projectiles aren't the best against any noteworthy opponent. However Sokka took out the Combustion Man by literal accident, I don't see how that has any basiswhatsoever."

They're not the best, but they are good enough to keep Tonraq busy as if he turns his back on Mai, he gets stabbed and if he doesn't, he gets paralyzed. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. We've seen Mai throwing 12 daggers in wide range with one simple shot. She would keep him busy with unlimited daggers and she would be able to dodge a couple of his attacks before going down. Sokka had planned his strike with his boomerang to hit CM's third eye. It was not an accident at all.

"Yeah, and Tonraq can make walls as well. If Ty Lee closes the distance like she does right after that gif, shes going to be face to face with a Physical Powerhouse she might not even be able to harm. She couldn't even take out a sleep deprived Katara despite landing 2ish blows on her. Hell, we all start near the Water, he might just freeze her."

Actually, if Ty Lee strikes on the shoulder she instantly paralyzes you. How will Ty Lee not be able to harm Tonraq. In close range she wasn't tagged by anyone and in h2h, it's more like "paralyzing hand to normal hand". He won't be able to freeze both Mai and Ty Lee when they have him surrounded. They are both described by the creators themselves as "unmatched in martial skill and knowledge despite not having bending abilities" He either gets stabbed or paralyzed. They aren't called Azula's Elite team for nothing.

"Yeah, and when she fought a sleep deprived Katara she had to switch opponents. While Ty Lee is admittedly a tier above Azula in acrobatics, We've seen what happens when Azula meets Waterhands.."

Not really, Ty Lee only switched to Sokka cause it was visible that Mai wasn't trying against him. She could throw 12 daggers at him but instead she decided to throw 3 weak arrows. She acted stupid so Ty Lee had to take care of Sokka who clearly had a boomerang advantage against 3 arrows.
And people use this way too much for nothing:

Azula was litterally standing there waiting for Katara to grab her. It's nothing like her. There was obviously something wrong or kind of PISy there. Let alone Ty Lee that moves wildly even more than Azula does in battle. Katara's hands were slow and if Azula or Ty Lee tried, they would honestly just dodge them. We've seen what they can do.







"From reputation alone, he was already near Ty Lee level, and you can see when he escapes he has pretty good acrobatics as well. Did he do anything that constitutes above Ty Lee? Maybe not, but him being an notable Airbender puts him above her alone, much less being a guy locked up as one of the four most dangerous guys in the world without bending. Mai won't really last long, Ty Lee will.. but I don't really see Mai doing so."

Yeah, but Tonraq barely tagging him with the help of Korra won't help him against Ty Lee. As I stated, Mai is the distraction that will let Ty Lee hit and win.

"Shes failed sometimes as well, or needed multiple strikes. Nobody you listed has any feat on Tonraq's level of strength, somebody that can punch through ice pretty easily with no sort of slowing down or strain whatsoever. I've also shown multiple agility feats for Tonraq, like his fight with Unalaq, and while I admit they aren't really on Azula's level let alone Ty Lee's.. He can use Waterbending to skate around being extremely hard to hit, like I posted before, but I'll do it again:"

I don't see why any of the girls would need stregth, and his agility wouldn't be a match for Ty Lee. Even if she wasn't able to paralyze the whole body at once in numerous occasions she still blocked bending with one strike at one single part of the body. Like I said before, Chi which is what Ty Lee strikes, has nothing to do with strength, so insisting on Tonraq being able to take hits from Ty Lee and keep his bending. Once his bending is out, he's dead against the two best martial arts masters in ATLAS.

"Yeah its in the south pole, but he starts near the pool. The ice is thin and reusable as well, It won't really use much water."

Even if he manages to do that there's a visible hole on top of his ice prison not big enough to let a giant spirit come out. but easily big enough to let Ty Lee jump out. She can jump exceptionally high as shown at the Chase or at The Drill. I would actually hope he would use this exact move against them since it would only make it easier for Ty Lee to catch him by surprise, and we've seen what she can do by surprise letting Tonraq think he won. It would only help her beat him.

I'll sum up why I think Ozai's angels win:
Azula: Unalaq would prove a difficult match for her but she would overcome him in all ways. Even if not able to charge lightning she would still overpower him. Head on, she has demonstrated more raw power, explosive hotter blasts and flames that evaporate water. That last one would affect both Tonraq and Unalaq. Even if they don't go head on, and use more complex techniques and strategies, Azula would be able to manipulate the environment in her favor just like she did various times. Esspecially an environment like that would only make it easier to use her superior agility on and furthermore attack with more complex, advanced firebending techniques like she has done many times.
Mai and Ty Lee: 1 on 1, they are outmatched by Tonraq. But that's not enough to take them on together. Mai would distract Tonraq and keep him busy for more time than Ty Lee would need to get close and instantly mark the girls' victory since the space of the battlefield is really small and Ty Lee is really fast. Furthermore, Ty Lee only needs one strike to take his bending away. Then, even with his mucular build, Tonraq would prove no match for such warriors.
Overall, the girls have experience working together while the brothers hate each other. Even if thhat doesn't really affect the battle much, they need more than great teawork in order to sychronize and let each other enough water to use, to battle their respective opponents. While the pool is big, the water is not unlimited.

Thank you pr0tocol for this wonderful debate! I had so much fun on my first CaV because of you! I hope the readers and voters found it as entertaining!

OPEN FOR VOTES

T4V - @lukehero@oparu@wbr17@deathstrokefan1626@noobsnowman@cpt_nice@gothamciti@gxrevolution@blackestnight93@koays

Extra -

Vote people! Note that I would appreciate all the feedback you can all give (of course don't be rude on none of us).

@lukehero@koays@blackestnight93@gxrevolution@gothamciti@cpt_nice@noobsnowman@deathstrokefan1626@wbr17@oparu@imanticore@arcus1
Once you all vote, I'll count them to find the winner. Make sure to vote for the better debater, and not the team you think wins. Thank you all in advance!

I'll have to look into this later.

I'll vote for protocol. In the unalaq vs azula scenario I found it hard to believe unalaq could stand up to her, but then protocol made me realize how little of season 2 I actually watched :) He showed that Unalaq had the speed and more importantly sheer power to put himself ahead of Azula. The way he dishes out that much water in a short amount of time is going to put enough pressure on azula to make her crack. And its not like this is the chase scene in the eclipse where the setting assisted azula in her escape. In fact I imagine with that much force the hotel is gonna go bye bye and become an open field. I also feel Tonraq wont have a hard time dealing with mai and ty lee because protocol showed that he can generate ice fast enough to defend against mai's knives with ease and use water to mobilize himself to put him out of ty lee's way. Good job to the both of you. ANtPh2000 you debated well but you can't really do much if the opponent has better feats. I'm not saying it was totally unfair because it is close but as benders the brothers are just too versatile as shown by pr0tocol

Giving it to @pr0tocol.

Felt he proved Unalaq had the raw power and speed to overcome Azula through even relatively minimal water.

Tonraq vs Mai and Ty Lee was more closer but I felt pr0tocol proved Tonraq could win by showing his physical advantages against Unalaq and how he's agile enough to react to Mai and Ty Lee through his fights with Unalaq and Zaheer.

That said, I felt bringing up the Sokka head feat was lowballing and essentially a gag feat.

Good job to both.

@pr0tocol: @anthp2000:

Pr0tocol has a much better format. Anthp2000 can learn something with him on this regard. It's better to use the quote feature when you are quoting your opponent than bolding it, also sometimes in your opener it was hard to follow and understand because it was messy. Both should only use gif in a spoiler block but do not put a lot of them together to avoid slow the loading and never repeat the same gif specially if it's not spoiler blocked.

I really don't agree with everything anyone of you said, we have some disagreement in a lot of the points showed.

I vote for Anthp2000. I think he showed that Azula can keep up with Unalaq while Mai and Ty Lee would be more than a match for Tonraq, also I liked that he pointed out that the water resource is scarce what would hinder the water bros mobility and attacks. On the other hand Pr0tocol used a lot of feats of his team when they had plenty of water and failed to give a proper answer to chi blocking. That was the major point for me.

It was a fun debate, I liked to read it. Sorry if I sound rude or something. English ins't my mother language and sometimes I lack the words and the cultural knowledge of what is polite or not.

@wbr17 -

@gothamciti: @jbourne_32: @wbr17: Thank you all for giving a reason and voting.

Have 300 posts or more to vote.

This hopefully prevents new users that don't have an understanding of how CaV's work, and alts.

I'll pass, sorry.

I'll need to think about this one

I must say, this was a short but sweet debate. I would have liked to see some discussion of the other match up (Azula vs Tonraq and Unalaq vs the duo), but oh well.

Both your openers were excellent. @anthp2000 you did a good job as always repping Ozai's Angels. @pr0tocol I remembered Unalaq had some great feats but you also showed some impressive stuff for Tonraq. I thought he was seriously outclassed, but I was obviously wrong.

Both your second posts were good, although I don’t understand why ANTHP did not focus more on the fact that the water supply is really limited. That would have been a cheesy but legit win imo. Anyway, just a thought, I am not here to debate but to vote.

I will give my vote to @pr0tocol. His debating for Tonraq in post 2 was fine but he convinced me Unalaq is a ridiculous bender because of his showings vs Korra. Excellent gifs and reasoning. ANTHP did well in general but I have to follow my gut here.

Good job, both of you.

Thank you all!

@wbr17: Yeah, I learned from that already :P Too many gifs.

I'm giving my vote to @pr0tocol for the style of debating and info. He gave detailed reasons and a very good and in depth analysis

@anthp2000 did very good as well though

All right I'll read and vote on this one later today, shouldn't take too long.

A solid CAV from both sides, it seemed even at times. Pr0tocol's strengths were his superior formatting, flexible counters in areas such as Tonraq's strategy for dealing with Ty Lee and Mai and on how Unalaq could combat the firepower of Azula's bending. Also, his strategy was linked rather well, if there was a weakness it would be in the slight downplay of sleep deprived Sokka blocking Mai's knives and the lightning charging time but nothing major.

anthp2000 did an effective breakdown of his side, played to what he believed his team's strengths would be, attempted an honest persuasion of why the non benders were not outmatched by Tonraq and had a good attitude for the first CAV he did. However, his formatting was cluttered and the many gifs he used were not compiled carefully enough. I felt he got put on the back foot more by Protocol than vice versa and he may have kept to the same gameplan rather than considering adaptation.

Overall, @pr0tocol made the more effective case in his soldifying how impressive and powerful Unalaq was and countered the non bending strategy very well. My vote goes to him.