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#1 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

We have a great one today boys and girls!

TR-8R, Master of Sick Spins and Loyalty, Represented by @joewell!!!!!

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VS

Brick, the Brute from the Borderlands, Represented by @banthabot!!

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Rules

  • Both combatants are in-character with morals on, but both are determined to win.
  • No prep or knowledge for either side.
  • The match is won when all of the enemy forces have been killed, knocked out, or incapacitated.
  • Both have composite feats, including all movies, comics, novels, etc.
  • TR-8R has 3 Loyal First Order Stormtroopers and 2 Flametroopers for backup.
  • Brick has nothing but his energy shield and fists.

Battlefield

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  • The fight takes place here.
  • Brick starts by the wooden building in the bottom right.
  • TR-8R and Co. start by the van in the upper middle.
  • There are no other people in the area.
  • No Battlefield Removal.
  • No calling in help.

Challenge A Viner Rules

  • Do not start extra arguments, post unnecessary scans/videos or interfere in the debate itself in any way. If you wish to inform either of us on anything important or correct us on a point, send us a private message.
  • If any of the above is excessively broken, we may request a mod to assist.
  • Your vote should be decided based on the debating quality and abilities of the participants. Not necessarily on the characters they are representing.
  • A reason for your voting choice would be greatly appreciated too.
  • Regular posting/commenting is fine.
  • As always, may the best debaters win.
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#2 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Jucaslucas (1079 posts) - - Show Bio

Really?

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#4 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Tr have enough feats to really use?

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#6 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Edited by Jucaslucas (1079 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@jucaslucas: It'll go great. You'll see.

Wanna be tagged?

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#9 Posted by Impervious (5603 posts) - - Show Bio

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T4V, B!+(#3$ !

LET'S DO THIS $#!+

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#10 Posted by Jucaslucas (1079 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: alright I will post my opener in a moment. And you can take your time, this thread will be here when your ready for it. ( Unless be apocalypse happens and the earth explodes)

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#12 Posted by Just_Banter (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't think TR-8R has enough feats to do a CaV with him, but whatevs, T4V.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

Brick

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Backround: . Brick is a Vault Hunter on the insane desert planet Pandora, and when he isn't hunting Vaults he doubles as a mercenary. He doesn't have that much of a back story. He had a dog once, it died, now he misses it. Pretty simple. Now he goes around Pandora doing what he does best, punching things to death.

Strength

In this contest Brick doesn't have any long ranged weapons and but that's okay because he has something better, his fists. Punching is Bricks main form of attack, defense and strategy. If punching something doesn't solve the problem, punching it harder defiantly will. That is why his level of strength is so important and Brick has some pretty insane levels of strength as I am about to show. Bricks strength will be enough to smash the clone troopers to death in short order. Honestly I could see him one shotting each one of them unless their armor proves difficult to crack.

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Brick smashed a boulder 4-5 times his size with a single punch.

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Brick uproots a plant larger than himself with one arm and, swings it around as a weapon.

Endurance

Endurance is also a key factor because Brick is likely to just charge through whatever offensive he encounters, absorbing the damage as he runs. His energy shield will help of course. It blocks incoming projectiles and can absorb about a full clip from an assault rifle before giving out, and once its depleted its gone. But on his own Brick has shown that he has enough durability to withstand some serious punishment.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Brick has this happen and while he is KO'd from it he is other wise fine.

Berserker

Brick can launch himself into a berserker rage at a moments notice. There are a few things to note about he berserker state. It increases his already considerable strength, and speed, and launches himself into an uncontrollable bloodlust with zero regard for his own safety. Usually he holds back his berserker state because while in it he is prone to team killing, but seeing as how he has no team mates, that wont be a problem. Brick may even give in to his berserker state as soon as the fight starts. He has done this several times before.

The Psycho soldiers were flung backward from him, their blood splashing, bone flying, teeth spinning away, as he jackhammered into them with his fists, faster and faster, right left, right left, right left, faster than the eye can follow.

- Borderlands: Unconquered

Bricks punches in berserker state have been stated to be "faster than the eye can follow"

Conclusion

Anyways these are my opening remarks. I cant wait to see what you have in store with your clone troopers.

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#14 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: woops forgot to tag you so here you go. My opener is up

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#15 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (17515 posts) - - Show Bio

As if anyone could stand before his righteous fury... T4V, though the winner is obvious :p

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#16 Posted by passingthrough545 (1177 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V, I won't lie I thought this was about CW Brick.

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#17 Posted by StormShadow_X (16693 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V, I won't lie I thought this was about CW Brick.

This

and is Tr-8R the new favorite without doing anything notworthy? Another Boba...

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#18 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Wolfrazer (16186 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#20 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: In the original trilogy? Hardly. His most memorable moment is getting smacked into the sarlacc pit by a blind Han Solo...on accident lol. At least Phasma is shiny.

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#21 Posted by Wolfrazer (16186 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable: He also tracked the Falcon and tied up Luke. :P Phasma betrayed the FO, got mauled by Chewie and thrown into a trash compactor! But anyway, no more derailing.

Online
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#22 Posted by AllStarSuperman (43147 posts) - - Show Bio

Tfv

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#23 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: Nice opener!

TR-8R

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TR-8R, Tray Tor, TR8-T0R, The Loyal Stormtrooper, Unidentified Riot Control Trooper, Ultimate King Badass of Spinny Spins. Whatever you want to call him, this trooper is one of great determination and skill that is sure to beat his enemy in this fight.

Background

The 100% canonical creation of TR-8R...
The 100% canonical creation of TR-8R...

TR-8R was a Riot Control Trooper from the new Star Wars: The Force Awakens. After following instructions from the First Order and bringing down the Castle on the Planet Takodana, he spotted his former ally FN-2187. Without hesitation the ever so loyal trooper called a fierce battle cry, threw down his weaponry, and engaged the Lightsaber-armed disserter with nothing but his Spin-Spin-Shock-Stick. After a brisk fight, our hero in white defeated the treasonous TRAITOR. Unfortunately, the plot stood behind FN-2187. Before TR-8R could finish off his prey, Han Solo sneakily sniped him with the Bowcaster, supposedly ending his life. But I, and many others, believe that our lord may rise again to spread his everlasting loyalty throughout the universe.

Sick Spins! (Skill)

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TR-8R is undoubtedly one of the most skilled stormtroopers, even with his low amount of showings. He was able to handily defeat Finn, armed with a lightsaber at this point, who is a very impressive trooper himself. Finn, in the novel "Before The Awakening", was shown to be top of his class during training and gained praise from Captain Phasma. He was even able to hold of an injured Kylo Ren, a powerful Sith, before being ragdolled by the Force. Despite all this, TR-8R was able to defeat him in melee combat with even more ease than Kylo did.

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While it may not be all that much in comparison to some other fictional fighters, against a brute like Brick it'll help turn the tides of this battle in his favor. His spins and combat prowess will allow him to dodge many of Brick's punches and land tons of hits in close combat, eventually bringing him down.

Wappity Stick (Gear)

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TR-8R's main weapon is the Z6 Riot Control Baton (Dubbed the Wappity Shock Stick of Sick Spins by fans. And by fans I mean me.) This is used primarily to subdue opponents with electrified hits and look like an epic spinny weapon of doom while doing so. It is durable enough to hold off a lightsaber for an extended period of time and quickly take down normal foes with either the force or shock of the baton.

Other than this, TR-8R carries around a betaplast riot shield and F-11D Blaster Rifle presumably uses when not engaging in close combat.

Loyal Followers (Allies)

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In this fight, TR-8R is not alone. He is backed up by 5 First Order Stormtroopers, 3 regular and 2 flametroopers. While they may seem like useless fodder, they are really skilled soldiers that have been harshly trained since birth and will give the numbers advantage to my team.

The Standard First Order Stormtroopers are well trained troops armed with the F-11D Blaster Rifle and SE-44C Blaster Pistol. Despite common belief, these troops are not at all a bad shot and can easily put down large groups of human opponents, as shown in the village raid in TFA.

The Flametroopers are a special variation of Stormtrooper that, as pointed out by their name, use a flamethrower in battle. These have a long range of about 15 feet and can reduce humans to dust in seconds.

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Rebuttals and Strategy

Counters

First, I'd like to comment on some of the things said in your opener.

Bricks strength will be enough to smash the clone troopers to death in short order. Honestly I could see him one shotting each one of them unless their armor proves difficult to crack.

I won't lie, Brick's strength is impressive and can most likely end the lives of the standard troopers rather quickly. But the problem for him isn't putting them down, it's getting close. The blasters are powerful enough to one-shot humans and will be breaking his shield after 2 or 3 shots. After he's exposed he'll be put down even quicker, being one or two shotted by the normal troops alone. He has no speed to dodge, his only hope would be taking cover and hoping for the best. But if he's doing that, he isn't getting close and if he isn't getting close he isn't putting the troopers down. Making his strength much harder to utilize.

TR-8R himself is a different matter. While he still isn't tanking many hits from Brick, he has the skill to avoid his punches, as shown in the fight with FN. If needed, he can even use the extremely durable Wappity Stick to block and counter-attack. His shield is also worth mentioning. He could to counter at least one hit from Brick and probably land some of his own.

Endurance is also a key factor because Brick is likely to just charge through whatever offensive he encounters, absorbing the damage as he runs. His energy shield will help of course. It blocks incoming projectiles and can absorb about a full clip from an assault rifle before giving out, and once its depleted its gone. But on his own Brick has shown that he has enough durability to withstand some serious punishment.

The blasters are far more powerful than any assault rifle and will bypass the shield much quicker. Especially when it's coming from 3 different shooters at once.

Brick has this happen and while he is KO'd from it he is other wise fine.

I wouldn't use something where he's KO'd as a good feat. I mean, TR-8R was probably only KO'd by the Bowcaster (You know with how much love he's getting he'll be coming back.), but I won't be using that because it took him out of the fight.

Once his shields are down, TR-8R can finish him with a couple blaster shots or by delivering a powerful blow and shock with the baton.

Brick can launch himself into a berserker rage at a moments notice. There are a few things to note about he berserker state. It increases his already considerable strength, and speed, and launches himself into an uncontrollable bloodlust with zero regard for his own safety. Usually he holds back his berserker state because while in it he is prone to team killing, but seeing as how he has no team mates, that wont be a problem. Brick may even give in to his berserker state as soon as the fight starts. He has done this several times before.

Interesting, but I see this becoming more of a weakness than a asset in this fight. Throwing himself at the Stormtroopers powerful weapons will do nothing but get him killed even quicker.

The only time I can see this be extremely useful is in melee combat with Tray-Tor, where it may actually give him the speed boost necessary to hit him. But, even that can be countered with the strategy below.

The Plan

The plan for this fight is a simple one. Not as simple as Brick's whole "Get close, punch things", but simple none the less.

Once the fight begins, the normal troopers will peel off from the group and take some cover. They will split up and hide behind the barrels, walls, and vehicles that scatter the area. While doing so, they'll constantly fire at Brick, keeping him at bay and bringing down his shields.

TR-8R and the Flametroopers will advance towards Brick, with the flametroopers each backed up to the side and TR-8R leading. TR will provide extra blaster fire until close, at which point he'll toss aside his blaster and ready his baton.

By this time, Brick's shield should be fully depleted. He's taking concentrated fire from 4 different blasters that are much stronger than the weapons he normally faces. You even said yourself he prefers to take attacks head on, so it is very likely he has no shield by the time he engages TR-8R himself.

Then will the real fight begin. TR-8R vs a shieldless, possibly even injured Brick. Now, each combatant has some advantages. Brick has strength while TR has skill and weaponry. I see TR's playing a much bigger role in this fight. While Brick can indeed hit hard, it is unlikely he'll be hitting anything other than a shield or baton with TR-8R's fine skill. It'll be deep into the fight before TR gets tired enough to let an attack land, and Brick should be out way before then.

Now, it's all about putting Brick himself down. Obviously he's a big man, but that's just what stun batons are for. One zap from the Z6 and Brick will suffer heavy recoil and damage. Mix that in with the hard thwops and the cover fire from the Stormtroopers and this fight shouldn't be all that long. Brick punches, TR side steps and spin-hits him in the head. Brick tries again, is blocked by the baton and giving a zap. I see the fight going like that until he finally gives out.

This is probably the point where you bring up the Berserker perk and the speed boost it gives. And you're right. This would allow him to land some game changing hits on TR. BUT, that's just what the Flametroopers are for! Once Berserker is used (Which TR-8R will notice by the pounding of the fists and loud yelling that typically happens.), TR-8R will back up and let the Flametroopers do their job of roasting the already near death Brick. This will bring him down nearly immediately, seeing that his shields are down and he's already taken damage from TR-8R.

Recap

  1. The Normal Stormtroopers will take cover and blast away at Brick until his shield is down.
  2. TR-8R and the Flametroopers will move in on him.
  3. TR will engage in combat and take the lead due to skill and weaponry. It is likely Brick is killed before thinking to use the Berserker perk. But if he isn't...
  4. Brick activates the Berserker perk, TR-8R takes this as a clue to back off for a second, and the Flametroopers finish him off.

You're up!

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#24 Posted by Pipxeroth (9228 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: Holy crap you may just actually pull this off. Great opening post, T4V.

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#25 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Edited by Amendment50 (15427 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be honest, I don't get this meme at all

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#27 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50: Memes aren't something you get. They're something you are.

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#28 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (17515 posts) - - Show Bio

TR-8R alone was a stomp. Adding the others is just overkill :p

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#29 Posted by Hocko1999_VIRUS (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy crap, this is actually happening.

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#30 Posted by livewyre718 (2962 posts) - - Show Bio

Good opening

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#31 Edited by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell:

Really impressive opener. I wasn't sure what to expect from your team but you brought up some very clever, well thought out, and valid points that I was just not expecting. You're smart and a very skilled debater and I tip my metaphorical hat to you. That being said, Brick still has to punch your team to death >:)

Rebuttals

Lets start off by countering some of the things that you said.

I won't lie, Brick's strength is impressive and can most likely end the lives of the standard storm troopers rather quickly. But the problem for him isn't putting them down, its getting close.

Actually ranged combat isn't much of a problem. Even though Brick doesn't have any guns he can still participate in a long ranged battle via throwing items at them. He actually does this quite often and has some really good feats to support this as an effective way of engagement. First off he can throw very heavy objects, such as a boulder confirmed to be over 100 kilos, or 220 pounds. Secondly, he is incredibly accurate with his throws, and is able to hit speeding cars or even an assault riffle in someone's hand. And last but not least he can throw them fast! Fast enough that even TR-8R will have trouble dodging them. (Feat provided below as proof) Now I know that there are no 100 kilo rocks just laying around in this particular battle ground but if you look at the map there are still tons of loose items. There are barrel of unknown weight, big tires, and, ironically, bricks. As Brick charges he towards your team he could easily scoop up a few tires and barrels and hurl them toward your team. Of course this tactic most likely wont kill anyone on your team but getting wacked in the face with a tire thrown by Brick will defiantly put the unlucky troopers that he hits on their asses, disrupting your teams stream of fire and buying Brick the time he needs to close the distance and devastate them in close quarters.

Then he heard a whistling sound, glanced over his shoulder in time to see a small but solid looking boulder spinning through the air to make contact with the back of the outrider in an explosion of rock chips. The vehicle took the impact, jerking forward, fishtailing, but continued to drive.

- Borderlands: Unconquered

Brick threw a small boulder fast enough to not only catch up to a speeding vehicle but still have enough force to shatter the rock on its back end. That is an insanely fast flying boulder! Even TR-8R will be unable to evade that.

I wouldn't use something where he is KO'd as a good feat.

Yes he was KO'd but anyone else would have been very, very, very dead if they did what he did. Still, Brick has other endurance showings. Remember that Skag that threw a 10-20 boulder at Brick? Brick has taken a direct hit from that same Skag and was still able to punch that boulder out of the sky afterwards.

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The Blasters are powerful enough to one-shot humans and will be breaking his shield after 2 or 3 hits.

I'm not denying that your blasters will shred Brick's shield fairly quickly, but they will not have as large of an effect on him when his shields are down as you would believe. Case and point Athena's Aspen. The Aspen is this really cool shield that another Vault Hunter named Athena uses as a weapon all Captain America style. So while your blasters can one shot humans, Athena's Aspen can one shot three humans. Also Brick has tanked a direct hit from Athena's Aspen and has been fine.

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Athena kills three people in one shield throw. (Above) Brick tanks a direct hit from Athena (Below)

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And right there is proof that your troopers wont be having as large of an effect on him as you would lead others to believe. Brick has tanked blows from weapons three times as deadly as the weapons your troopers are using and still hasn't gone down.

Interesting, but I see this becoming more of a weakness than an asset in this fight. Throwing himself at the Stormtroopers weapons will do nothing but get him killed even quicker.

The only time I see this be extremely useful is in melee combat with Tray-T0r, where it might actually give him the speed boost necessary to hit him, but even that can be countered with the strategy below.

It also allows him to fight through nearly any injury just by ignoring the pain, instantly makes him bloodlusted, and gives him a very significant strength boost as well (although that is a little redundant as he is already strong enough to one-shot his opponents)

Also hi strategy of throwing himself recklessly at the Stormtroopers is nearly a given whether he is passive or berserk. If he is going to do the same thing might as well be twice as strong, twice as fast, bloodlusted, and moralless. (that is defiantly a word). His intelligence level pretty much stays the same, very stupid, but he gets a significant stat boost, and will be fighting that much harder. Plus there is no reason for him to not go berserk in this contest, he doesn't have to worry about hurting his friends and it will make him a whole lot more deadly. His berserk mode is nearly guaranteed to come out and when it does its pretty much game over for your team.

Other plans and strategy's

I wont lie, that stun baton is really cool. Like I mean really cool, so are all of your guys guns, which makes me wonder, what is stopping Brick from ripping them out of your troopers hands and beating them over there heads with them? Your plan is to have TR-8R fight Brick in close quarters using his spinning baton of death, but Brick could just grab that thing out of his hands and use it as a blunt instrument. He could easily do it, he is a 7'3 giant who is 100x stronger than TR-8R. Or lets just say he gets a blaster, Brick is a pretty decent shot, probably around the same level as your Storm Trooper's. He could easily gun TR-8R down from long range. I mean shooting people is not his preferred strategy but its defiantly not out of character. What then?

Conclusion

Brick can throw loose objects at your team while charging with enough speed that they can't be dodged. This will likely cause injuries and will defiantly disrupt your teams stream of fire temporarily.

Brick has taken hits from weapons much more deadly than what your team is packing and has still been fine.

His Berserker mode turns him into a dumb, super strong, brute charging head first through blaster fire, into a bloodlusted super strong brute with enhanced stats charging head first through blaster fire.

When Brick closes the gap and gets his hands on your team he will punch them all to death in short order and then feel sad because the battle didn't last very long.

And that's all she wrote. Your turn

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#32 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot:

Really impressive opener. I wasn't sure what to expect from your team but you brought up some very clever, well thought out, and valid points that I was just not expecting. You're smart and a very skilled debater and I tip my metaphorical hat to you. That being said, Brick still has to punch your team to death >:)

Thanks a lot for the kind words! Warms my heart ^_^

But of course. If he can.

Counters, Round 1!

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Actually ranged combat isn't much of a problem. Even though Brick doesn't have any guns he can still participate in a long ranged battle via throwing items at them. He actually does this quite often and has some really good feats to support this as an effective way of engagement. First off he can throw very heavy objects, such as a boulder confirmed to be over 100 kilos, or 220 pounds. Secondly, he is incredibly accurate with his throws, and is able to hit speeding cars or even an assault riffle in someone's hand. And last but not least he can throw them fast! Fast enough that even TR-8R will have trouble dodging them. (Feat provided below as proof) Now I know that there are no 100 kilo rocks just laying around in this particular battle ground but if you look at the map there are still tons of loose items. There are barrel of unknown weight, big tires, and, ironically, bricks. As Brick charges he towards your team he could easily scoop up a few tires and barrels and hurl them toward your team. Of course this tactic most likely wont kill anyone on your team but getting wacked in the face with a tire thrown by Brick will defiantly put the unlucky troopers that he hits on their asses, disrupting your teams stream of fire and buying Brick the time he needs to close the distance and devastate them in close quarters.

Oooohhh. Smart move. But one that's easily countered.

Ya see, while Brick throws things fast and accurate, he still has to take the time to pick up something and aim. This gives the Stormtroopers a couple second gap to not only take pot shots at him, but also take cover behind whatever they're nearest too. So overall this isn't too effective considering any normal human could simply aim dodge this, let alone highly trained soldiers, and because it'll leave him even more open for attacks.

Plus, like you said, this won't even be killing anyone if a projectile does land. It might knock a trooper back, put them down for a little bit, but they'll be right back up in a matter of seconds. He's practically sacrificing all of his shield to temporarily put down one of his six opponents.

Brick threw a small boulder fast enough to not only catch up to a speeding vehicle but still have enough force to shatter the rock on its back end. That is an insanely fast flying boulder! Even TR-8R will be unable to evade that.

Impressive indeed. But again, they don't necessarily have to dodge the projectile itself, just where Brick aims it. They see him pick up a barrel and turn their way, they'll take cover. And while he's doing this, every other trooper will be firing upon him, working him down.

Yes he was KO'd but anyone else would have been very, very, very dead if they did what he did. Still, Brick has other endurance showings. Remember that Skag that threw a 10-20 boulder at Brick? Brick has taken a direct hit from that same Skag and was still able to punch that boulder out of the sky afterwards.

True. I'm just saying being KO'd isn't a good show of his limits.

Now see, that's better. But it won't help too much in this particular fight. You see you've shown defense against blunt force attacks, which will help him take a few more hits from TR-8R's Spins, but that's about it. Everything else in this fight, the blasters, flamethrowers, and shocks, will still be just as efficient as anything else.

I'm not denying that your blasters will shred Brick's shield fairly quickly, but they will not have as large of an effect on him when his shields are down as you would believe. Case and point Athena's Aspen. The Aspen is this really cool shield that another Vault Hunter named Athena uses as a weapon all Captain America style. So while your blasters can one shot humans, Athena's Aspen can one shotthree humans. Also Brick has tanked a direct hit from Athena's Aspen and has been fine.

And right there is proof that your troopers wont be having as large of an effect on him as you would lead others to believe. Brick has tanked blows from weapons three times as deadly as the weapons your troopers are using and still hasn't gone down.

I have two big problems with this.

First that shield, while impressive, is no more powerful than a blaster rifle. It can just hit more enemies. Because it can curve around mid flight and all, it can take out more. This does not mean it is more powerful, it just has more mobility. If three humans were lined up in a line, a blaster could take them all out.

My second problem is the same as the skag hitting him, it's a blunt force resistance feat. Tanking that is much different than tanking a piercing, electric, or fire attack. Let's look at Spider-Man for a second. He can take hits from 50+ tonners and just be knocked on his butt. A bullet or knife, however, can go right through him. I believe the same applies to Brick here. He'll be able to take manya wappity thwops, but when the blasters, flamers, and electric spins start getting thrown at him, he'll have very little resistance.

It also allows him to fight through nearly any injury just by ignoring the pain, instantly makes him bloodlusted, and gives him a very significant strength boost as well (although that is a little redundant as he is already strong enough to one-shot his opponents)

Also hi strategy of throwing himself recklessly at the Stormtroopers is nearly a given whether he is passive or berserk. If he is going to do the same thing might as well be twice as strong, twice as fast, bloodlusted, and moralless. (that is defiantly a word). His intelligence level pretty much stays the same, very stupid, but he gets a significant stat boost, and will be fighting that much harder. Plus there is no reason for him to not go berserk in this contest, he doesn't have to worry about hurting his friends and it will make him a whole lot more deadly. His berserk mode is nearly guaranteed to come out and when it does its pretty much game over for your team.

Ignoring the pain won't help if he physically can't go on. Once he's received a half a dozen blaster bolts to the chest or has been burnt to a crisp, he's going down with or without the Berserker.

How is it game over at all? It doesn't amp his durability and he'll already be weakened by the time he uses it, so I don't see why the troopers can't put him down. Sure he might kill one or two, but there's no reason 6 people with powerful blasters can't kill one already weakened man.

I wont lie, that stun baton is really cool. Like I mean really cool, so are all of your guys guns, which makes me wonder, what is stopping Brick from ripping them out of your troopers hands and beating them over there heads with them? Your plan is to have TR-8R fight Brick in close quarters using his spinning baton of death, but Brick could just grab that thing out of his hands and use it as a blunt instrument. He could easily do it, he is a 7'3 giant who is 100x stronger than TR-8R. Or lets just say he gets a blaster, Brick is a pretty decent shot, probably around the same level as your Storm Trooper's. He could easily gun TR-8R down from long range. I mean shooting people is not his preferred strategy but its defiantly not out of character. What then?

I'd like you to look very closely at that baton..
I'd like you to look very closely at that baton..

You're going to try to grab the baton, huh? Gonna try to take the electric stun baton from him? Remember how it, ya know, delivers a powerful shock when just tapped? Brick isn't stealing it unless he wants to be zapped to death then and there.

Taking a blaster isn't likely either. Why would he go for an opponent that's across the field when there's one right in front of him and he enjoys melee fights? Just doesn't make sense when we consider his nature. Even if he did attempt this for some reason, it'd probably fail. The trooper could gun him down before he is able to steal it from him. If he didn't, he'd at least be weak enough for anyone else to easily dispose of him.

Conclusion Counters

Brick can throw loose objects at your team while charging with enough speed that they can't be dodged. This will likely cause injuries and will defiantly disrupt your teams stream of fire temporarily.

The troopers can aim-dodge like any other semi-intelligent human.

He'll lose way more than he'll gain by doing this. He's risking all his shield life and maybe even death for a small chance to temporarily take out one of the six enemies. It'll only hurt.

Brick has taken hits from weapons much more deadly than what your team is packing and has still been fine.

The Aspen is no more deadly than the blasters, it can just hit more enemies. Resisting it is also a completely different type of damage. The Aspen produces blunt force while the blaster do piercing and energy damage.

His Berserker mode turns him into a dumb, super strong, brute charging head first through blaster fire, into a bloodlusted super strong brute with enhanced stats charging head first through blaster fire.

XD

Charging head first through blaster fire will quickly have him killed. The blasters are powerful and coming from 4 different opponents. They'll shred both him and his shield in a matter of seconds if simply tanked.

When Brick closes the gap and gets his hands on your team he will punch them all to death in short order and then feel sad because the battle didn't last very long.

You've yet to explain how he closes the gap here. The stream of blaster fire and fire fire should keep him from doing that well. The only one he has a chance of getting close on is TR-8R, but he'll just defeat him in close combat do to far superior skill and weaponry.

Conclusion

  • The scenario from last post is still happening.
  • Brick throwing things will be more damaging to himself then it will my team.
  • His durability isn't good enough to hold up under constant blaster fire from 4 different troopers for more than 10 or so seconds.
  • Berserker isn't helping much because he'll already be weak by the time he uses it and he still won't be able to tank the attacks necessary to get close and punch them out.
  • Trying to steal the Z6 is will result in him getting stunned and killed, trying to steal a blaster is out of character and unlikely, and trying to steal a flamer won't work because they require the backpack to function.

You've done well, but Brick simply can't overcome TR-8R's undying loyalty and amazing spins.

No Caption Provided

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#33 Posted by DeepSpaceHomer (155 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is so beautiful... I think I'm crying. Go TR-8R! T4V.

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#34 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (17515 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no stopping his righteous fury now.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio
##
##

MOAR COUNTERS!

You've yet to explain how he closes the gap here. The stream of blaster fire and fire fire should keep him from doing that well.

You're absolutely right! I haven't explained how I am going to close the distance. (Im glad you brought this up because it gave me an excuse to use paint and it was suuuuper fun :D )

How Brick is going to close the distance is actually a culmination of all that we have talked about so far. First off let me show you what I drew ^.^

No Caption Provided

Isn't it cool?

So the starting positions of each character is highlighted based on where you stated that each character starts. "You" is your team "Brick" is Brick. As you can tell the gap is not actually that big. As you stated your team will take cover while firing at Brick, and Brick will start the battle charging at them like a maniac. We estimated that Bricks shield would last three blaster bolts which should last him about half way (the blue arrow represents the distance that he is shielded.) Now notice the yellow circle. These are barrels that Brick is going to scoop up and throw as he runs. Your counter to Brick throwing objects is that your team can aim-dodge/take cover instead of dodging the actual projectile, which is a clever counter, but it also helps with Brick closing the distance because while your team is ducking behind cover to avoid being hit by the barrels they wont be shooting at Brick. Also there is no reason to sagest that Brick has to stop to throw the barrels. First off they are in his path which means that he doesn't need to spend extra time running to an item to throw. Secondly, Brick can throw 220 pound rocks with zero difficulty and these barrels shouldn't even weigh half of that. And that brings us too the red arrow (Red means danger, and that is why Brick's name is red, because he is dangerous.) Once Brick reaches the yellow circle he has the means to return fire and force your team into cover, and while they are in cover there are unable to return fire, yeno, because they are hiding. This buys Brick the time he needs to cover the last of the distance and get your team within arms reach.

So lets recap.

Blue: Brick is shielded and can absorb three shots from your team as he charges.

Yellow: Brick throws barrels with out needing to slow down and forces your team to take cover.

Red: Your team is either hiding or else knocked on their asses due to Bricks powerful throwing arm giving Brick the necessary time to finish closing the difference while taking minimal damage.

And that is how Brick is going to close the distance. (Also I will be selling this picture on Ebay because it is artistic gold)

Now see, that's better. But it won't help too much in this particular fight. You see you've shown defense against blunt force attacks, which will help him take a few more hits from TR-8R's Spins, but that's about it. Everything else in this fight, the blasters, flamethrowers, and shocks, will still be just as efficient as anything else.

Your right, none of the feats that I have given were from piercing weapons. But do you know what isn't a piercing weapon? The Wappity Shock Stick of Sick Spins. TR-8R is using a riot control baton. Riot control is non-lethal and is designed to subdue/pacify standard humanoids, basically its a Taser stick. Brick is exceedingly more durable than a standard humanoid. Brick can take things that would turn standard humanoids to jelly and just walk it off. And you are planning on bringing Brick down with a weapon intended to subdue standard humanoids. I'm not sure that is going to work out for you :/

So I have to ask you, how much of a damage output does this stun stick actually put out?

You're going to try to grab the baton, huh? Gonna try to take the electric stun baton from him? Remember how it, ya know, delivers a powerful shock when just tapped? Brick isn't stealing it unless he wants to be zapped to death then and there.

The ending half of the baton is electrified, but from his hand grip there is a nice foot and a half of exposed non-electric metal for Brick to grab onto. Also Brick could just grab onto TR-8R himself, say like his hand, forearm, or bicep, and just squeeze until he breaks his arm and he drops it. Its a plausible scenario. Also depending on how much of a shock that thing really delivers he might be able to just grab the shocky part of it.

Let's look at Spider-Man for a second. He can take hits from 50+ tonners and just be knocked on his butt. A bullet or knife, however, can go right through him. I believe the same applies to Brick here. He'll be able to take manya wappity thwops, but when the blasters, flamers, and electric spins start getting thrown at him, he'll have very little resistance.

As far as electric and fire are concerned I really can't provide any serious feats proving any resistance to either, although I can say that weapons infused with electrified rounds and incinerary rounds are common place on Pandora. Also Brick has been living on Pandora for most of his adult life and hasn't exactly stayed out of trouble, like, ever. All this means is that it is highly likely that he has been on the wrong end of these type of weapons. This isn't very concrete or prove absolutely that Brick has a high or any resistance to fire or electric attacks, but it does say that he has felt the effects of weapons like these before. Like I said, not very concrete.

As far a piercing goes, Berserking Brick has taken a glancing shot from a high caliber weapon to the skull from only a meter away and, not only didn't die, but kept fighting for a few more seconds.

Who was pointing a very large-caliber weapon at his head? It was a Tediore Avenger, aimed at him from about a meter away.

Brick roared defiantly, his bellowing kill rage echoing across the Borderlands and Brick prepared to rush the Tediore-and then his enemy fired.

The bullet struck Brick glancingly in the side of his head, gouging but not penetrating- still he kept moving, grabbing the Tediore's barrel. And he used the weapon as a club to brain the gunman, and then the bloodied riffle slipped from his fingers.

Brick swayed...

-Borderlands: Unconquered

Now there are a few pros and cons to point out about this feat. First Brick was berserking meaning his stats were enhanced, detracting from the showing as he was not in a passive state. Second it was only glancing which means he didn't take the full brunt of the shot. Third, he was KO'd after a few seconds. Now the pros. It was a "very large caliber" weapon, meaning this weapon hits especially hard. Second it was only from a meter away which means the bullet was flying full speed.

What does this all add up to? Well I doubt that Brick could have taken a straight shot from the same gun to the head, but this does prove that Bricks resistance to piercing is above average as i'm sure a regular human would have died instantly from the same shot.

Conclusions once more

I explained how Bricks shields, long range attacks, and direct path should get Brick into the middle of your team while taking minimal damage.

I also pointed out how the Wappity Death Stick of Shocking isn't a piercing weapon and is intended to pacify regular humanoids with standard endurance, and how Brick doesn't have a standard endurance level.

I explained how stealing the Almighty Shock Shaft is plausible due to not a good chunk of it not being electrified and via bone breaking

And I also gave weak evidence that Brick probably has experience with getting hit with shock/fire weapons. And strong proof that his resistance to piercing damage is far above the average humanoid.

And last but not least I drew an extremely awesome picture that is sure to win me multiple awards and medals :)

As a wise man once said "You must construct additional pylons." which doesn't really have any relevance here but, what the hell, its the phrase that I am going to use to pass the next round onto you.

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#36 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: forgot to tag you again. Ugh, im the worst.

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#37 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: Bro, you are quick. Expect my post up sometime after school tomorrow. 5-6ish.

Nice post, btw. How many more you wanna do?

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#38 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: really? Because it feels like it takes me forever to type everything up.

Maybe one or 2 more. However many you want to do

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#39 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: Most people I get in CaVs with take 2-3 days to respond. Yours are up in just a couple hours.

And don't worry, mine usually take 3-4 hours to type up total.

That works.

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#40 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: what can I say? I don't have a life lol

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#41 Posted by Spector_Rand (3946 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: your doing an epic job haha. I haven't seen you do CaV's before is this your first?

@joewell: dude this is awesome hahaha plz T4V.

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#42 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@spector_rand: this is my first CaV. I have been active on SW forums for several years and only came to CV like a year ago? I really am a fish out of water. My experience with such a free form debating hub is extremely limited

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#43 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: o_0 Wait, serious? I honestly thought you were an alt of someone's, considering how good you are.

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#44 Edited by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: nope. I have been in what, 2 official debates as part of tournaments. First one I did crappy. Second I did pretty well but still lost

Edit: it may be one or two more than that but they have been spread so far apart I hardly remember.

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#45 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: Niccee. I didn't get half decent until my 8 or 9th debate, if not more. But hey, look at me now! It's "Oh, that guy. Maybe he has a chance" rather than "Bahahahaaha!! This guy again? He sucks!"

I'm near the end of my post. An hour more, max.

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#46 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (17515 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@banthabot: Niccee. I didn't get half decent until my 8 or 9th debate, if not more. But hey, look at me now! It's "Oh, that guy. Maybe he has a chance" rather than "Bahahahaaha!! This guy again? He sucks!"

I'm near the end of my post. An hour more, max.

Bahahahahaha! This guy again? He sucks!

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#47 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell said:

@banthabot: Niccee. I didn't get half decent until my 8 or 9th debate, if not more. But hey, look at me now! It's "Oh, that guy. Maybe he has a chance" rather than "Bahahahaaha!! This guy again? He sucks!"

I'm near the end of my post. An hour more, max.

Bahahahahaha! This guy again? He sucks!

TRAITOR!

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#48 Posted by Spector_Rand (3946 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: dude your doing really well, especially against a debater as skilled as Joe, who really is awesome

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#49 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@banthabot: XD

Ok, let's do this! If you have no more points to raise after this, you can do your conclusion. If you do, we can do another round of counters, then conclusions.

Bet You'll Never Guess What This Section Is

It's counters.

Rare footage of TR-8R unleashing his Super Ultra Mega Spin Form upon a traitorous city...
Rare footage of TR-8R unleashing his Super Ultra Mega Spin Form upon a traitorous city...

So the starting positions of each character is highlighted based on where you stated that each character starts. "You" is your team "Brick" is Brick. As you can tell the gap is not actually that big. As you stated your team will take cover while firing at Brick, and Brick will start the battle charging at them like a maniac. We estimated that Bricks shield would last three blaster bolts which should last him about half way (the blue arrow represents the distance that he is shielded.) Now notice the yellow circle. These are barrels that Brick is going to scoop up and throw as he runs. Your counter to Brick throwing objects is that your team can aim-dodge/take cover instead of dodging the actual projectile, which is a clever counter, but it also helps with Brick closing the distance because while your team is ducking behind cover to avoid being hit by the barrels they wont be shooting at Brick. Also there is no reason to sagest that Brick has to stop to throw the barrels. First off they are in his path which means that he doesn't need to spend extra time running to an item to throw. Secondly, Brick can throw 220 pound rocks with zero difficulty and these barrels shouldn't even weigh half of that. And that brings us too the red arrow (Red means danger, and that is why Brick's name is red, because he is dangerous.) Once Brick reaches the yellow circle he has the means to return fire and force your team into cover, and while they are in cover there are unable to return fire, yeno, because they are hiding. This buys Brick the time he needs to cover the last of the distance and get your team within arms reach.

First off, I gotta say. I wasn't aware I was fighting against a world class artist here. It breathtaking! I might just have to whip out my own art skills at the end of this post!

But, on to the post. I'm going to split this first part up and counter by sentence, because this is a lot.

Also there is no reason to sagest that Brick has to stop to throw the barrels.

It's much harder to pick up and aim something when you're running forward. If he wants to have even a small chance of hitting anyone, he'll at least slow down.

Your counter to Brick throwing objects is that your team can aim-dodge/take cover instead of dodging the actual projectile, which is a clever counter, but it also helps with Brick closing the distance because while your team is ducking behind cover to avoid being hit by the barrels they wont be shooting at Brick.

Not quite true. You see, I stated only the one who is being aimed at will take cover. The other 3 can still be shooting at Brick, taking his health down and possibly killing him.

Once Brick reaches the yellow circle he has the means to return fire and force your team into cover, and while they are in cover there are unable to return fire, yeno, because they are hiding.

But not all the enemies will be hiding, just the one Brick is looking at as he throws the barrel. The others will still be shooting at him.

This buys Brick the time he needs to cover the last of the distance and get your team within arms reach.

Eh. He'll still be wading through blaster fire up until he meets TR-8R.

And there's that wonderful section cleared, onto the next!

Blue: Brick is shielded and can absorb three shots from your team as he charges.

Yellow: Brick throws barrels with out needing to slow down and forces your team to take cover.

He forces one to take cover and is now naked to the other 3 shooting at him. He'll most likely take some damage here, making him weakened for TR-8R.

Red: Your team is either hiding or else knocked on their asses due to Bricks powerful throwing arm giving Brick the necessary time to finish closing the difference while taking minimal damage.

One is just hiding with a bruised shoulder at most. Brick has taken damage but can still maybe live long enough to meet TR.

And that is how Brick is going to close the distance. (Also I will be selling this picture on Ebay because it is artistic gold)

OH! You think that is art gold?! Well meet Art Platinum!

It's missing the Flametroopers, but you get the point..
It's missing the Flametroopers, but you get the point..

Your right, none of the feats that I have given were from piercing weapons. But do you know what isn't a piercing weapon? The Wappity Shock Stick of Sick Spins. TR-8R is using a riot control baton. Riot control is non-lethal and is designed to subdue/pacify standard humanoids, basically its a Taser stick. Brick is exceedingly more durable than a standard humanoid. Brick can take things that would turn standard humanoids to jelly and just walk it off. And you are planning on bringing Brick down with a weapon intended to subduestandard humanoids. I'm not sure that is going to work out for you :/

So I have to ask you, how much of a damage output does this stun stick actually put out?

You're 100% correct. I directly acknowledged this as well.

Never did I say it would bring him down. I said it would hurt and stun him, which it will. It's made to put humans on their knees, so it should at least get Brick to tense up. And that's all TR-8R needs to get another free hit in or stop his current attack.

You know, the full fight scene between FN and TR isn't up on Youtube yet, so I can't exactly show you. So I'll just say it does the same as any modern taser, enough to bring a man to his knees. Something like this:

Loading Video...

In gif form, if you're like me and think this is hilarious.

Mmmmmmm, I'm a sick bastard..
Mmmmmmm, I'm a sick bastard..

Really, it should probably be even more powerful, since it's from a far more advanced civilization and all, but since I can't directly prove this I'll leave it at that.

The ending half of the baton is electrified, but from his hand grip there is a nice foot and a half of exposed non-electric metal for Brick to grab onto. Also Brick could just grab onto TR-8R himself, say like his hand, forearm, or bicep, and just squeeze until he breaks his arm and he drops it. Its a plausible scenario. Also depending on how much of a shock that thing really delivers he might be able to just grab the shocky part of it.

It's possible, but do you really think base Brick is fast, coordinated, and smart enough to do so? It's spinning rather fast and it's not like he's the biggest strategist.

I doubt it. Remember how we went over TR-8R's greater skill and stuff? He should be able to avoid or block any grab attempts. There is a reason those flametroopers are beside him though, if he does get caught they'll be able to flip the switch and help him out, killing Brick and winning the fight.

Grabbing the shocky part wouldn't kill him, but it would tighten him up and leave him very vulnerable to attack. Overall not a good idea.

As far as electric and fire are concerned I really can't provide any serious feats proving any resistance to either, although I can say that weapons infused with electrified rounds and incinerary rounds are common place on Pandora. Also Brick has been living on Pandora for most of his adult life and hasn't exactly stayed out of trouble, like, ever. All this means is that it is highly likely that he has been on the wrong end of these type of weapons. This isn't very concrete or prove absolutely that Brick has a high or any resistance to fire or electric attacks, but it does say that he has felt the effects of weapons like these before. Like I said, not very concrete.

So basically he won't be surprised when seeing them, but they'll affect him the same.

As far a piercing goes, Berserking Brick has taken a glancing shot from a high caliber weapon to the skull from only a meter away and, not only didn't die, but kept fighting for a few more seconds.

Now there are a few pros and cons to point out about this feat. First Brick was berserking meaning his stats were enhanced, detracting from the showing as he was not in a passive state. Second it was only glancing which means he didn't take the full brunt of the shot. Third, he was KO'd after a few seconds. Now the pros. It was a "very large caliber" weapon, meaning this weapon hits especially hard. Second it was only from a meter away which means the bullet was flying full speed.

What does this all add up to? Well I doubt that Brick could have taken a straight shot from the same gun to the head, but this does prove that Bricks resistance to piercing is above average as i'm sure a regular human would have died instantly from the same shot.

It's a cool feat, but it doesn't really add anything to his durability. You see, there's a difference between getting shot and surviving and getting shot and taking no damage. The first, what Brick did, is an endurance feat. It shows he can keep going after taking damage (Kinda), but not that he doesn't take the damage. His endurance won't matter if his body simply can't go on, which is what will happen after a couple blaster bolts have went through his body.

Conclusions Counters

I explained how Bricks shields, long range attacks, and direct path should get Brick into the middle of your team while taking minimal damage.

Mreh. At best, he's getting close to TR-8R with no shield but no damage. At worst, he's dead before he even gets to him.

I also pointed out how the Wappity Death Stick of Shocking isn't a piercing weapon and is intended to pacify regular humanoids with standard endurance, and how Brick doesn't have a standard endurance level.

I agreed with this, but countered that even normal tasers can pacify big men and that the Z6 should at least make him hurt.

I explained how stealing the Almighty Shock Shaft is plausible due to not a good chunk of it not being electrified and via bone breaking

Ooh, I like that one.

While possible, it's unlikely. Brick doesn't really have the mind or concordance to grab a rapidly spinning stick in the exact place he needs, nor does he typically go for the grabble in combat. But even if he is able too, the Flametroopers that are nearby can easily get TR-8R out of it and finish off Brick.

And I also gave weak evidence that Brick probably has experience with getting hit with shock/fire weapons. And strong proof that his resistance to piercing damage is far above the average humanoid.

Experience with it? Probably. Resistance? There's nothing to say that.

I explained how the feat you gave, while a good one, is not actually durability, but endurance, and will not help against the dozens of blaster bolts that'll be ripping into him.

And last but not least I drew an extremely awesome picture that is sure to win me multiple awards and medals :)

Yes of course, but I too created a Van Gogh level piece of artwork that is debatably even better!

Flabber-Gizzles!

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

  • The "Chuck Stuff" method is not nearly as effective as you think and probably won't work.
  • Electricity will still hurt Brick, even if it won't kill him.
  • Grappling is unlikely and can be put to a stop by the flametroopers.
  • The "durability" feat you provided isn't really relevant in this fight.
  • Plus all the stuff I said before.
No Caption Provided

And with tha-Wait, what's that? Oh! Wow!

This just in, TR-8R's identity has just been confirmed!

He is FN-2199, aka "Nines", and actually has another appearance in the "Before The Awakening" novel.

He even has an official unmasked picture. Here:

He's a ginger too!
He's a ginger too!

Who'd a guessed it? (Besides all the people who did..)

Anyways. Back to you, Banthaboo.

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#50 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: I was reading your latest post and a few counters came to my head, and its really tempting to go another round but I know by the time you counter my counters I will have more counters, so im just going to end it here.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion of Epic Proportions

Im just going to recap my best arguments.

1. Brick is extremely physically powerful, able to punch a giant boulder out of the sky, and will easily be able to punch your stormtroopers to death.

2. Brick is extremely durable. He is able to take a direct hit from the skag that threw said boulder, tank hits from Athena, and survive driving full speed and jumping feet first into an oncoming vehicle.

3. Berserker mode increases his stats, making him stronger, faster, making him bloodlusted, and reducing the few morals he has to zero. Also in Berserker mode his punches were stated to be "Faster than the eye can follow."

4. Brick can throw loose objects weighing up to 100 kilos with ease. He is accurate enough to hit the riffle out of someone's hand, and can throw them with enough momentum to catch up to a vehicle that is speeding away from him.

5. Brick can grab the weapons out of your characters hands and beat them over the head with them

6. TR-8R's stun baton is badass, but it is only meant to incapacitate standard humans, while Brick is far more durable than a regular human.

7. Brick has taken a glancing shot to the head at near point blank range and didn't die, displaying a resistance to piercing.

8. Brick has a shield that can absorb some gunfire which will help him get close.

All in all Brick is too strong, too tough, and too crazy for your team to deal with. That is why the battle is likely to end like this.

No Caption Provided

Any ways this has been fun. We will have to debate again sometime. But for now it is your turn. (Oh and I didn't forget to tag you this time.)

"You must construct additional pylons."