@firsthunter: Monarch
@the-seeffiss17: Larfleeze
Rules:
All characters are In character.
Each Battle takes place on an abandoned Planet the size of Neptune.
Win by Any means EXCEPT BFR.
No Explosion if Monarch's armor is breached.
CaV Tournie: War of the Teambusters: Firsthunter (Monarch) vs The-Seeffiss17 (Larfleeze)
Bio:
Feats:
The Fight:
Larfleeze and the Orange Lanterns!
"In the beginning there was Larfeeze. And Larfleeze looked out upon himself and saw that he was good."
--Larfleeze
Bio:
The Power Ring:
Being the sole member of a his Corpse, Larfleeze not only has the power of a standard Power Ring wielder, but his power is the accumulative percent/ power of an entire core in one being. His powers include:
- Speed/ Flight: Larfleeze can easily exceed the speed of light when in mid-flight.
- Super Human Physicals: Larfleeze is incredibly strong, durable, and thanks to his ridiculously high percent of power he runs on, is nearly inexhaustible.
- Construct Creation: Like all Lanterns, Larfleeze can create incredibly potent constructs from his imagination. More impressively he can create entire armies worth of these constructs.
- Force Fields: Larfleeze's shields are among the most durable you will find.
- Energy Projection/ Absorption: Larfleeze not only wields high volumes of power/ energy, but he can control other sources to a masters degree like most Lanterns. And he can fire it out with incredibly high potency.
- Immunity's: The Orange Power Ring, like all Rings, grant Larfleeze resistances to a number of "hax" powers, such as molecular dismemberment and telepathic assaults.
- Soul Manipulation: Being the soul member of his Corpse Larfleeze can manipulate/ destroy someone's soul, corrupting them into becoming an Orange Lantern and thus his minion.
Larfleeze has quite the array of powers at his disposal, but what's truly frightening is the degree of which he uses said powers. The incredible vastness of the power he wields makes him unimaginably powerful.
The Orange Lanterns:
The Orange Lanterns are constructs Larfleeze can summon and control. They are the souls of beings Larfleeze has defeated or corrupted into becoming an Orange Lantern. Because they are sentient beings, they can act completely independently, while still being constructs and thus controlled by Larfleeze. With the Orange Lanterns at his side, Larfleeze essentially has the power of an entire portion of the emotional spectrum, all to himself. Which is what makes him such a fearsome adversary.
The Debate Begins!
Since we are already running behind schedule, I'm just going to jump right into initial points and counters :).
Initial Counters:
I'd like to start with some issues I have found with your presented scans:
Manhandles Several different Lanterns and completely no-sells their attacks. When a small portion of his armor is breached it insta kills all but one of them.
GalleryGalleryGalleryTaking on three Green Lanterns isn't particularly impressive, considering the tier we are operating within. Larfleeze has accomplished similar feats, versus dozens of Lanterns, not just three.
With a giant construct of himself, he one-shots at least 7 GLs that are visible. While simultaneously tanking direct energy blasts from at least 4 visible GLs. Clearly a higher end feat than what was shown of Monarch, and this is still casual mode for Larfleeze. BTW: This was done by just Larfleeze, completely without his entire army of constructs.
Secondly, I'd like to point out something very important. In your scan, a single Lantern was able to breach Monarch's armor/ body. His durability was bypassed. By one Green Lantern. Destroying Monarch's body is going to be like popping a balloon for someone like Larfleeze when you look at the difference between him and a single GL. Larfleeze is the equivalent of that Lanterns entire corpse.
Then once you consider Monarch's body won't be exploding when Larfleeze destroys him, Larfleeze should be taking a win.
Casually wipes away a Monster from Existence that was giving ION Amped Kyle Raner trouble.
What do you mean by "wipes away from existence"? Are you implying some form of Reality Warping or Molecule Manipulation? Because it looks like Monarch just blasted the creature out of sight, or disintegrated it. If you have more solid feats of warping or MM, then I will counter them. But for now, this just seems like a solid energy blast feat... And if that's the case, we'll discuss who has the better energy attacks later on.
Casually one-shots the majority of an extremely large group of heroes and manhandles the rest. Mentions how he has became "More than all the Superman in the Multiverse combined"
GalleryThis feat is not what it looks like at first glance. The first scan skews the context.
Judging by the first scan, you would assume that Monarch was one-shotting MMH, Superman, etc. etc. This is obviously not that case at all, based on the other scans you've posted.
- The people getting one shotted by the energy blast are characters like Cyborg, Robin, Hawk Girl, Canary, and some others that are difficult to make out. Highly unimpressive. Larfleeze could easily one shot these street levelers/ mid tierers also.
- He then, AFTER THIS, takes on the rest. But he doesn't even do this all at once. The Supermen in your last scan run at Monarch one after another. And the group of Green Lanterns don't step into the fight until much after, and they take him on separately. This is depicted by your first set of scans, where the GLs take him on separate from this group of heroes.
So once again, this isn't quite as high end as it may appear. Larfleeze could similarly defeat all of these heroes. In fact he's taken on multiple characters of a higher caliber, in higher numbers. And done so actually at the same time.
From what I know of Fleeze he doesn't have feats to match up to Monarch.
Well considering you said this: "I'm not an expert on Fleeze" I'd say this is a rather baseless claim. Larfleeze has more than enough feats to stand up to Monarch.
He's strong and can teambust but can't do it with the causality and amount of heroes or villains that Monarch consistently does it with.
He can, and has, taken on more powerful beings, and in higher numbers. I have already shown him easily defeating a dozen of Green Lanterns without the Orange Lanterns. But if you still want some more...
Larfleeze and the Orange Lanterns quickly overwhelm the New Guardians, some of the strongest members of each part of the Emotional Spectrum. He unfortunately looses this battle, though its only because Orange has a specific weakness to Violet and Blue Lanterns.
Initial Combat Breakdown:
I'm not one to underplay my opponents. Monarch is incredibly powerful. However, Larfleeze certainly has the tools required to defeat him.
Fisticuffs - In a physical brawl, I'd back Larfleeze for a decisive victory. This may be a strange claim, considering Larfleeze doesn't really have any direct strength feats, whereas I believe Monarch does. However, Larfleeze's overwhelming physical prowess comes from unconventional means. For example, using constructs as opposed to regular striking feats.
Even further than this though, Larfleeze's main advantage over Monarch is the power of the Orange Lantern Corps. Monarch may be capable of overwhelming 3 Lanterns, but what about 10? 20? Well he is going to be taking on dozens. Plus Larfleeze who is drastically more powerful than almost any other Lantern in existence.
Monarch is going to be quickly pinned by the Orange Lanterns. Leaving him open for Larfleeze to employ either constructs attacks, or any of the tactics i'm going to discuss below.
Ranged Combat - Larfleeze wields some very potent energy based abilities. Think about the power of a Green Lantern such as Hal Jordan. How much raw energy he can absorb and project. Then imagine what he would be like if his ring was charged to 100,000% (like Fleeze's orang ring) as opposed to his standard 100%. 100x the percent of a standard power ring... Then when you factor in that a standard GL was able to wound Monarch, and I would say Larfleeze would comfortably win a fire fight.
Soul Assimilation - The ace in the hole. "Soul rip". If push came to shove, Larfleeze could easily just corrupt Monarch with the Orange Light, thus turning his soul into one of Larfleeze's Corpsmen. An instant win, so long as Monarch doesn't have any spiritual based powers that I am unaware of.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll of course get into more scans to support my claims later in the debate. For now, I'll leave you with this my friend. :)
Counters:
with a giant construct of himself, he one-shots at least 7 GLs that are visible
I don't see how what Larfleeze did to the those Lanterns as "one-shotting". You see some of them yelling in pain but you don't see them being actually killed whatsoever.
Secondly, I'd like to point out something very important. In your scan, a single Lantern was able to breach Monarch's armor/ body.
He didn't actually "breach" his body. All he did was rupture his containment unit. Not to mention that only harmed the Lanterns. Monarch didn't care.
Destroying Monarch's body is going to be like popping a balloon for someone like Larfleeze when you look at the difference between him and a single GL.
Except what he did was not actually breaching his armor. It was slightly rupturing his contaminant unit. The armor and Monarch himself can be seen unharmed in the very next page.
Larfleeze is the equivalent of that Lanterns entire corpse.
If this is true then Monarch can be solidly scaled above him.
Monarch managed to fight evenly with SMP (Amped version of SBP) and even had the upper hand.
Gallery
SBP fought the GLC+Other Heroes and put up a very good fight.
Gallery
What do you mean by "wipes away from existence"
I mean that he literally removed him from existence. He does not exist anymore.
judging by the first scan, you would assume that Monarch was one-shotting MMH,
He does one-shot MMH. You don't seem him alive after that blast.
He then, AFTER THIS, takes on the rest. But he doesn't even do this all at once
I never claimed he did. He one-shot a large group but he didn't one-shot everyone. He used a very effective AOE.
Well considering you said this: "I'm not an expert on Fleeze"
I said I am not an expert on Fleeze. I did not say I know nothing about him.
Larfleeze and the Orange Lanterns quickly overwhelm the New Guardians, some of the strongest members of each part of the Emotional Spectrum.
So with the aid of the OLC he was able to overwhelm some Gaurdians but still lose in the long run?
That seems Impressive. But I can give a better feat that Monarch accomplished by himself.
Fought and easily defeated 3 Alternate Superman along with all the remaining Cap Atoms In the Entire Multiverse
Gallery
Gallery
Gallery
Gallery
Gallery
In a physical brawl, I'd back Larfleeze for a decisive victory.
I'd say otherwise given how Monarch was capable of fighting evenly in fisticuffs with SMP.
This is the same SMP who ripped a hole in the 5th dimension and is stronger than SBP
Monarch may be capable of overwhelming 3 Lanterns, but what about 10? 20?
Pretty easily given the rest of his feats and how he could fight evenly with SMP who is stronger than SMP who already defeated more than 10-20 lanterns.
- Larfleeze wields some very potent energy based abilities.
So does Monarch. He is actually pure energy.
when when you factor in that a standard GL was able to wound Monarch,
He never wounded him. He just ruptured his containment unit which did no damage to Monarch and killed the Lantern.
I would say Larfleeze would comfortably win a fire fight.
Doubtful. Monarch was able to severely hurt SMP.
Gallery
SBP (Who is weaker than SMP) tanked a Galaxy buster with little damage (scans left to right)
Gallery
And here's Powergirl throwing him into the Warworld just incase you think he wasn't there at the time.
The ace in the hole. "Soul rip". If push came to shove, Larfleeze could easily just corrupt Monarch with the Orange Light, thus turning his soul into one of Larfleeze's Corpsmen. An instant win, so long as Monarch doesn't have any spiritual based powers that I am unaware of.
Monarch has yet to resist Soul Manip so I can't make a case that he can but I doubt the fight will last long enough to come to that.
Conclusion:
So far from what my opponent has provided Larfleeze seems like a Corpse buster, which is not enough to win. Monarch still team-busts on a bigger and broader scale. His only way to win his Soul Manip but I doubt it will last long enough for that to happen.
Round #1 Post: Kicking it into high gear!
My friend...
Deconstructing FH's Post
I'd like to start by saying, there was a ridiculous amount of misquoting. The majority (if not all) of your counters are copying only a small sample of what a had to say, and then countering that one portion. This obviously skews the context in which I said the things I said. You also would skip over points of mine, and I am honestly not sure why? I am not saying you are being intentionally deceitful at all. It just presents a gaping hole in your argument, which I would almost call a straw-man argument because of the misquoting.
*For those who are skimming, I am going to make notes of which sections I feel are the ones to pay closest attention to.*
Monarch's suit durability + Larfleeze one-shotting GL's
Don't Skip.
Conclusion: Fleeze has plenty power to overload Monarch.
Refuting your power-scaling + Monarch ISN'T a Corps buster.
Don't Skip.
Conclusion: Just because Monarch has fought Superman Prime, doesn't automatically mean he is more powerful than Larfleeze or a Corps buster. You need feats from Monarch to suggest that.
Scan nitpicks
Conclusion: Not too much here, just explaining the issues with some of your scans.
Your misunderstanding of the Orange Corps + Monarch vs Supermen and Captain Atoms.
Don't Skip.
Conclusion: The OLC always accompanies Fleeze into battle. Plus your scan of Monarch vs "all the CAs in the Multiverse" isn't nearly what it is being made out to be.
Physical, energy, and soul based combat
Conclusion: All of Larfleeze's options I describing in my opening, are still perfectly viable here.
More claims about Monarch and Superman/boy Prime
Don't Skip.
Conclusion: Monarch's showings against Superman Prime is being tremendously overrated here. Monarch held his own for a short time (but did no substantial damage versus Prime). Once he ticked Prime off, SMP proceeded to tear Monarch to pieces.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now with that out of the way, let's look into the actual battle itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Going On The Offensive
Orange Lantern Bull-Rush
Phase 1 of this attack is to summon the entirety of the Avarice Corps. Then simply swarming Monarch. The idea is to quickly overwhelm him, giving Larfleeze an opening to finish Monarch off. That said, here is why the Orange Corpsmen should be more than capable of subduing Monarch.
First of all, here are some scans to showcase that the Orange Lanterns can completely nullify Monarch's energy attacks.
Gallery
- Some Orange Lanterns tank hits from the entire accumulative forces of the Gaurdians and the Green Lanterns. The power through there attacks, and lay waste to all of Oa.
- Hal specifically states that the Orange Lanterns are draining them, the Guardians, and one of the GL's magical powers.
If each individual Orange Lantern can sponge attacks from the Guardians. The same Guardians that put down Superboy Prime, whom you seem to think quite highly of.
Then you have to factor in the incredible physical strength of Larfleeze henchmen. They have subdued high tier lanterns like Hal and Stewart, Guardians, and even White Lantern Kyle Rayner.
This is Kyle in his early stages of wielding the entire emotional spectrum. Note that WL Kyle is a proficient manipulator of reality itself.
Overall, Monarch will be quickly dog-pilled. Leaving him wide open for Larfleeze to punish him directly, or by corrupting him via the Orange Light.
Damage Output
You seem to be of the opinion that Larfleeze will be doing little to no damage to Monarch in this entire battle... I honestly don't know where your getting this from. Considering you've only shown two scans for durability.
- One scan that shows a single Green Lantern doing damage to Monarch (albeit a small amount of damage).
- Another scan where Monarch holds of SMP for a few pages, and then gets killed once Prime actually gets angry.
Now these feats are the makings of a decently powerful character... However these feats will be outclassed by the sheer magnitude of Larfleeze's power.
I mean Larfleeze can solo entire Corpses, and even wound Krona (a Guardian) while he was channeling *the entire emotional spectrum*. Essentially making him as powerful as a White Lantern, with vast reality warping capabilities.
Beings like these should be tanking or absorbing all of Larfleeze's hits... Yet he is doing a number on them, In fact both his battles with Krona and Kyle have ended in a draw (unlike the one time Monarch has faced a cosmic level beings, where he was destroyed).
Soul Corruption
You literally said that Soul Manipulation was an automatic win for Larfleeze. And that Monarch's only chance was to kill Fleeze before he can use it. Sooooo... Yeah. You kinda just conceded the entire match.
BTW: Just so you guys know, soul steal is an instant process, that doesn't require Larfleeze to do anything but be near you.
Closing - Summary
Your's debunked:
A proper summary:
- You've done quite a bit of dodging context and misquoting me. Which I feel has made your points rather easy to debunk and exploit.
- Monarch doesn't have the feats to suggest he can take on dozens (potentially hundreds) of Orange Lanterns. Each who are FTL and 100+ tonners. Who can also nullify all of Monarchs energy based powers.
- Larfleeze has more than enough power to destroy Monarch's armor (and therefore his body).
- Larfleeze can automatically win the battle as soon as he gets near Monarch, by stealing his soul.
@firsthunter Alright my friend, your move!
Log in to comment