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#1 Edited by Streak619 (8029 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor and Superman:

Repped by Kevd4wg and TheKinfing
Repped by Kevd4wg and TheKinfing

Versus

Naruto and Sasuke:

Repped by Moiself and Darthjhawk
Repped by Moiself and Darthjhawk

Conditions and stipulations

  • In character, but determined to win.
  • Standard gear.
  • No prep time or knowledge for either of the combatants.
  • Combatants are their prime versions.
  • Naruto and Sasuke are composite.
  • 616 Thor and Post-crisis Superman.
  • Perfect teamwork for Thor and Clark.
  • Win by death or KO.

Location: An indestructable and uninhabitated Earth

Combatants start 10 meters away from each other.
Combatants start 10 meters away from each other.

Note:

  • This is a CaV, desist from posting your opinion on the outcome of the battle or posting comments/engaging in conversations that will derail the topic of this thread.
  • If you wish to be tagged for voting, then comment as such.
  • While voting, do not vote with your opinion on the battle as a basis for the vote, but vote for who you think convinced you of their stance.
  • Votes without a valid reason/justification will not be considered, this is to avoid biased or unfounded votes.
  • You need to have completed atleast three CaVs and have more than a thousand posts to vote.

Asides from that, we hope you enjoy the debate. :)

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#2 Posted by vsw (2933 posts) - - Show Bio

Good to know Toneri starts in TCM.

T4V.

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#3 Posted by Defiant_Will (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every damn post

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#5 Posted by maestromage (1489 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Edited by Streak619 (8029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw:@maestromage: Edited

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#7 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11999 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll keep up with this... Probably.

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#9 Posted by TheKinfing (11880 posts) - - Show Bio

oh boy

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#10 Posted by FaradaySloth (10741 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

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#11 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn. TAEP.

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#14 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio

I knew this was a great choice

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#15 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I know you have strong opinions on this. We all do. But this is still their cav so keep any thoughts for once the debate is over.

Moderator
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#16 Posted by Kirkseven (3136 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos-: Oh wow I missed you becoming a battle mod, congratulations. Fine then.

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#18 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Can u still post against ET in the next few days? if so your match is on

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#19 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18616 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V but I won’t vote.

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#20 Posted by UltimateSage (3734 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

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#23 Posted by Streak619 (8029 posts) - - Show Bio

@higherpower: @lvenger: As far as I can see, the rules are in English. Reading them would be appreciated, thanks

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#24 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio

OK I'm deleting any comments that aren't just tags. Please don't debate this any further

Moderator
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#25 Posted by emperorthanos- (16600 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@emperorthanos-: Oh wow I missed you becoming a battle mod, congratulations. Fine then.

Thanks. Happened just last week.

Moderator
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#26 Posted by Darthjhawk (5646 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: So I just caught with all these events. I appreciate and understand how you feel. Especially as someone with your knowledge and reputation. However I will ask that you at least give all of us the same respect we would have given you. No matter what the match up is or was. If it’s a mismatch, fine. If it’s fair, fine. However the point of all this at least to me is to have fun and in interesting discussion.

If you would like to keep up with the debate we would be more than happy to tag you. If you don’t want to that’s fine. I realize you and ET have spoken. But I would still like to say my piece. Hope you continue to have a good day. And hopefully you can wish, Streak, Kev, Kinfing and I the same.

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#27 Posted by Omnipotent94 (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

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#28 Edited by BrainDrain (700 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor MVP.

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#29 Edited by phillip33 (4482 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh wow T4v

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#30 Posted by Sazzmi (699 posts) - - Show Bio

Bait

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#31 Posted by ourmanuel (12316 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Darthjhawk (5646 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#34 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8500 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP.

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#35 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17105 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Edited by Darthjhawk (5646 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg@thekinfing@streak619: Alright. Shall we let the carnage and insanity begin?

The Wandering Revolutionary: Sasuke Uchiha

No Caption Provided

"While it's true I once desired destruction… and the only goal I had was revenge… things are different now. Because that which is destroyed can always be fixed and rebuilt. Villages freed from the clutches and employ of darkness… what I desire is to reform the entire shinobi world! What I am calling for, what I am bringing forth… that is… Revolution."

Character Rundown: The Wandering Ninja

As always I present my characters with a theme to accompany them. Sasuke is no different.

SasukeThe Rundown
Real NameSasuke Uchiha
Created ByMashashi Kishimoto
First AppearanceChapter 1: "Sasuke Uchiha!!" (First Full Appearance outside of flashback)
Latest AppearanceBoruto: Naruto Next Generation
Powers & Abilities
  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics
  • Master of the Sharingan
  • Diverse Jutsu Arsenal
Current Status
  • Wandering the Five Great Nations
  • Searching Kaguya's Dimensions

Engaging the Debate I: Sasuke's Versatility Edge

The version of Sasuke I'll be using is the one seen in the pic above, Adult Rinnegan Sasuke. While thats a massive power in of itself, it also comes with the experience and wit that Sasuke has gathered throughout his time in the series. However per our terms Sasuke is a composite version of himself. As such I'll be able to use a plethora of his showings from the main manga, anime, novels, and even games that all culminate into this form and what accelerated his power to allow him to compete with Thor and Superman. The first part of that is what I feel is Sasuke's massive advantage in versatility. Something that I feel in combination with his physicality will help him net him the win with Naruto. Anyway let's move on to those abilities:

  • Elemental Jutsu Arsenal:Sasuke's unique (at least in this battle) form of energy & construct generation, manipulation, and output. Including the likes of Fire and Lightning styles, these attacks offer Sasuke a combination of battlefield control, close-mid range offensive options, as well as long range options. Furthermore the caveat of these being made from his chakra as well as being able to infuse natural/Six Paths energy that offers another layer of output that enhances Sasuke's attacks
  • Sharingan & Rinnegan: Sasuke's extremely powerful ocular abilities. They offer a host of abilities, including increased sensory perception, illusion casting, move reading/precognition, the power of the Six Paths, as well as access to one of Sasuke's most famous abilities in Susanoo. In this battle, Sasuke's eyes are some of the the most dangerous weapons in play.
  • Amenotekijara:Sasuke's unique space-time ability that allows a form of teleportation. Sasuke can use to switch himself, objects, attacks, or even other people. This ability functions extremely well as a crowd control ability. With this Sasuke can create opening by forcing Thor and Superman to attack themselves or each other, not only disrupting their teamwork, but providing a means of damaging them should Naruto and Sasuke prove unable to themselves.

I want to take a quick moment to take about the Sharingan and Rinnegan's visual prowess. What they both offer and stack on is the move reading and precognition:

Sasuke's Visual Prowess offers a unique form of that

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Chapter 230: Time of Awakening

Note how Sasuke says he could not catch Naruto's movements blitz beforehand. However with the Sharingan the user can actually see the movements down to the finest muscle tension, and as such can correctly place their body or counter in the perfect spot to strike back against their opponent. This would compensate for not only a speed disadvantage, but also supplement a speed advantage given that it will allow the user to see the opponent's counter before they can make it. The Rinnegan only doubles down on that and increasing Sasuke's perceptions. Allowing him to track, predict and keep up with opponents that are actually his superior in combat and reaction speeds:

Chapter 650: Those who shall sleep
Chapter 650: Those who shall sleep

Now that I've laid out the foundation, I can come back to this once I begin discussing Sasuke's fighting style and where, when, and how he might utilize the methods in his arsenal, especially in tandem with Naruto. As it stands from what I know of this Thor and Superman, Sasuke should have a clean advantage in versatility. In terms of raw power, Thor and Supes are definitely above him, but Sasuke can employ his power in more effective and numerous ways that are like a fine scalpel. In the end, not only does Sasuke have the quantity, but also the quality to be a dangerous opponent here.

=========================================================

Engaging the Debate II: Sasuke's Physical Edge

As far as speed and even attack potency, I'll be establishing Sasuke at the start being at least Relativistic in combat and having attack potency surpassing a country level scale. I'll use one of his more clear cut showings in least in terms of scaling. Sasuke showing travel and combat speed was able to cover a large distance and slice Madara Uchiha in half before he could take effective actions to defend himself:

Chapter 674:
Chapter 674: "Sasuke's Rinnegan"

Now in terms of speed, this is impressive since a weaker Madara than the one shown here was able to casually outpace and dominate FTG teleportation combat via Sage Mode Minato (Chapter 665); but also perceive and react to an attack that was able to bend and distort space via speed alone.(Chapter 672). To show consistency that Sasuke can continually attack and defend whist traveling at similar speeds; I'll cite this instance from Boruto: Naruto the Movie where Sasuke faces off against Kinshiki Otsusuki:Which should that Sasuke, has, can, and will use his speed to its utmost here.

Doubling down on the impressiveness of this feat, as I said before this also works to show off Sasuke's attack potency. Before Sasuke began fighting this Madara, he was able to withstand this attack from Naruto, that sliced the Divine Tree in half. (Ch. 673). This same tree was able to withstand the explosion and output of four blasts that could each individually destroy a country earlier in the series.(Ch. 644). Keeping both of those details in mind, Sasuke was not only able to harm Madara's body, but in fact bisect it without any trouble.

Moving on to one of Sasuke's even better showings of raw power. I'll use my first game feat:

Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: Chidori: Planet Splitter
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: Chidori: Planet Splitter

Despite the fun name, Sasuke is not destroying a planet. However I still find this impressive. Here Sasuke, is trapping his opponents in a small moon that he creates with his Chibaku Tensei, through his eyes. Which forms the satellite you see here. He then charges a basic Chidori and then totally obliterates said satellite by striking through it directly, also harming the target within. The impact and resulting explosion can be seen from space and even extends into the atmosphere. This is a very impressive showing of power and potency imo, that does not rely on scaling. This should show quite well that Sasuke packs a significant punch. This is a step up and consistent jump from the move that inspired this, where Sasuke destroys a meteor chunk with a casual attack. (The Last: Naruto the Movie).

Now moving on to durability, I won't try to oversell Sasuke's base durability. He isn't exactly tanking much with his body alone. Luckily he has his Susanoo avatar. If you don't know, Susanoo is a projection of solid chakra that takes the shape of a Tengu Warrior that Sasuke can use to fight and protect himself. Think like a Megazord from Power Rangers. Anyway as a start, Sasuke's Susanoo has been shown to protect him from country level+ attacks:

Read R to L: Chapter 695-696
Read R to L: Chapter 695-696

As shown, the resulting explosion was massive, dwarfing multiple mountain ranges along with the surrounding landscape. Part of this was from Naruto's attack and those attacks are capable of creating an explosion of this magnitude (Ch. 571). Explosion that dwarf island and the surrounding countryside. And Sasuke was able to match a stronger version of that as well as tank the resulting aftermath as shown above. But in terms of raw physical attacks, Sasuke's Susanoo was able to protect him from Kaguya's casual blows which surpass the output of the above damage:

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Chapter 680-681

So what's the point of showing this? Especially when it shows the Susanoo being shattered? The point is to show that even when Thor damages Sasuke's Susanoo and destroys it, it will protect Sasuke himself and keep him from actually being harmed as shown here. I'll be realistic and not assert that Sasuke himself can tank physical blows from an all out Thor. But he can take steps to ensure that its only his Susanoo, which he can continually re-summon takes the full force of the attack, should he be attacked.

Overall I think this is a decent start to show how powerful Sasuke is the physical department alone. Like I said before though I won't make any solid claims or conclusions until you've had a chance to post. This is not the full scope of Sasuke's power but should be enough to highlight what I want to say for now. In terms of speed and power, Sasuke is already operating at the levels I stated casually, and when going all out reaches even greater heights. I look forward to seeing how this goes.

=======================================================

Gods and Supers vs Shinobi I: What does Sasuke Brings to the Table?

Three things. Intelligence + Keen Analysis, Quick Decision Making and Battleflow Control.

Intelligence + Analysis:

As you can guess by my title and subtitles, the first individual factor, Sasuke brings to the table is his keen ability for detection, made even more potent by his ocular abilities. When faced with an opponent, inferior, equal or superior Sasuke takes the time to observe, analyze, and break down his opponents. Even in the face of his allies being in danger, Sasuke is able to keep a level head and remain focused on the task at hand, like here when they were first confronted with Ten-Tails Obito who had surpassed them all significantly in power:

Chapter 639: Attack
Chapter 639: Attack

Notice he is able to keep calm as well as keep Naruto from acting rash. Now I know these conditions aren't exactly the same as Sasuke fighting a 1v1 battle, so lets look at what he does in something like that:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

In his fight against Deidara who he had never seen or fought before, Sasuke takes the time in the opening stages of the battle to figure out what he fights with and how he fights with them. In this case being explosives. He notices, what are close range, what are guided missiles and all the like. At the same time he uses his speed, and Chidori variants to keep Deidara's attacks from reaching him while learning to understand how they work. Sasuke goes on to gain the advantage in this battle forcing Deidara into suicidal tactics because of the analytical work put in at the beginning. This translates to Thor by means of both being weapon users in way. Thor a hammer, and Deidara explosives. While they are not the exact same thing, the fact remains that they are weapon fighters. And since Sasuke's primary target is Thor this is one way he can begin to break him down tactically.

Quick Decision Making:

However this doesn't just extend to weapons, but also general powers and abilities. Take for instance here:

No Caption Provided

Through fighting Madara and actually being able to see how his ability Limbo works (one no one in the verse could counter or understand before this), through a few exchanges, Sasuke is able to analyze what it is, how it can be affected, and how to eventually create a counter plan to stop it. Even directing Naruto who couldn't see the clone, on how to counter Madara using the ability. Madara says it best:

No Caption Provided

As far as I know, neither Thor or Superman have powers or abilities as complicated as this, so Sasuke should be more than capable of observing, analyzing, and even understanding how their abilities function, their limits, and how best he and Naruto can counter them.

Speaking of that, this same scan also demonstrates Sasuke's quick thinking, and then on the fly tactical decision making skills. In the case of Madara, who was their relative equal in ability and speed, and his previously imperceptible shadow that had to return to him?

Chapter 674
Chapter 674

He uses his eye power, Amenotekijara to teleport Madara into his and Naruto's combination attack.

To double down and cover tactics used on opponents physically superior to Sasuke, even ones he couldn't kill or truly harm normally, the main strategy is to user their versatility to create openings and use techniques that don't require harming the opponent, but rather sealing them away:

Chapter 682:
Chapter 682: "Betcha never seen this"

Like here, when facing down Kaguya, and despite the foolishness of Naruto's plan (which was to use a Sexy Jutsu) Sasuke went along with in order to create an opening, and seal her. Which actually very nearly worked if not for Kaguya's dimensional abilities. Notice the comment about Sasuke's left eye. That leads me to my last subsection:

Battleflow Control:

This all comes together in terms of Sasuke using all of his wit and experience to control the flow of battle. Kev would likely find this familiar and call it momentum for Thor. Well not does Sasuke abuse it, but creates a flow of control with battle that eventually leads to his favor. To start this off I'll be using my second game feat, referencing the boss fight of Sasuke vs Kinshiki:

Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: Sasuke vs Kinshiki
Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 4: Sasuke vs Kinshiki

Note Sasuke's use of speed, Amenotekijara, and Susanoo. He first uses his speed to get into Kinshiki's blind spot, then cut a piece of his headdress. From there he uses his eye to swap places with the cut part to get behind Kinshiki and launch him into a cliff face with a Susanoo enhanced punch. From there Sasuke uses his speed and strength to continually pummel Momoshiki through the cliffside to incapacitate him.

Sasuke can also do things like this from a ranged distance. Like here when he and Naruto battled Momoshiki:

Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65
Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65

I linked the rest of the video from this gif on to help explain the showing. In their battle against Momoshiki, Sasuke uses a host of his ninja tools, enhanced by the power of his Chidori to force Momoshiki into a full on defensive measure, creating an opening for he and Naruto to create clones and set up a combo that not only forced Momoshiki to forego his go to abilities, but lead to him being sealed inside of Sasuke's Chibaku Tensei. However controlling the flow of battle has been something Sasuke has done exceptionally well, especially since he received his Rinnegan. Using its teleportation ability Sasuke is able to stop blitzing and bullrushing tactics, but also force his opponents to essentially attack themselves like when Madara tried to bullrush him here:

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Chapter 674: Sasuke's Rinnegan

Or like how here he turned Momoshiki's own attack against him, placing him into a position in which he couldn't help but be open to he and Naruto's attacks:

Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65
Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65

Or even better, when later into the fight, Sasuke performs a switch of Momoshiki's caught weapon and his own attack:

Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65
Boruto: Naruto Next Generations Episode 65

Which is very relevant here, as not only could it disarm Thor for a split second (I know he can call it back to him as well as Sasuke probably not being able to lift it) but the moment of opening is what Sasuke is trained to go for, and nothing is better than forcing an opponent to attack himself, or his teammate in this case. You tell me. Would Thor in full swing/strength attacking himself or Superman cause some significant damage or what?

Anyway I could go on and on, but abilities and skills like these become insanely useful in a battle situation where in terms of power Sasuke is outclassed. Being able to combine these with his teamwork with Naruto, Sasuke becomes an insanely dangerous opponent on the battlefield. The sheer ablity to force Thor and Superman to attack themselves is a boon that simply can not be overlooked. As the old saying goes, or however its put: "Use your opponent's strength and momentum against them".

=======================================================

Gods and Supers vs Shinobi II: Establishing the Teamwork Advantage

So I know that Thor and Superman have Perfect Teamwork per our thread conditions, however I would say that only goes so far in terms of combating Naruto and Sasuke. I say this because despite all the theoretical arguments or thoughts we can come up with for Thor and Superman, the fact remains that they haven't really fought together like Naruto and Sasuke have. The ninja have battled together from childhood into adulthood.

Even from the beginning of the series Sasuke is able to understand the full measure of what his partner has in mind with just a glance, and even less in terms of words:

Chapter 14:
Chapter 14: "The Secret Plan"

This plan was able to force their opponent into a position where he had to release his hold on their teacher. Showing that Naruto and Sasuke know how to create openings, and force foes into a position best suited for their own needs.

Even while arguing and competing with one another, the duo can easily match each other and create combo attacks almost effortlessly:

Chapter 641: You two are the main stars
Chapter 641: You two are the main stars

This is also reflected well in how they defeated the god tier of the verse Kaguya.

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Chapter 689: "I love you guys"

Through the combined use and plan of their mentor, Naruto and Sasuke mainly through use of Sasuke's ocular powers and Naruto's clones, defeat Kaguya, by exposing her to being sealed. Exploiting her direct confrontational tactics (similar to Thor and Superman imo) keep her on the backfoot, and even defeat her. Combine that with Sasuke's own prowess and we have some insane showings of teamwork on our hands.

And in keeping up with the theme of control Sasuke has several showings of turning the abilities of his opponents back against them:

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  • Scan 1: Turn's Orochiamru's technique back on him (Ch. 346)
  • Scan 2: Usung Danzo's wind ability to amplify his own and use it against him. (Ch. 479)
  • Scan 3: Utilizing genjustu and deception, again turns Danzo's abilities against him forcing him into retreat (Ch. 480)

The instantaneous synchronization is really key here in my opinion. They know each other's abilities, protect each other and cover each other's backs. That mesh almost allows them to fight as if they were one. As I mentioned the history and on panel showings of combat and mutual understanding cannot be understated. In terms of teamwork, Naruto and Sasuke are more than perfect if you will. But even more than that, Sasuke has the means to disrupt Thor and Superman's teamwork with his ability to control attacks with his eye. In terms of this, Naruto and Sasuke have the advantage.

=======================================================

Current Conclusions & Initial Thoughts: Starting the Battle

Make no mistake, Superman and Thor are powerful and impressive. I have no doubt about their power and what you both will be bringing to the table. However I do believe that Naruto and in my case Sasuke can compete here. While they have more overall power, I think the precision offered by the ninja is what will be key for them to gain an advantage This post was meant to establish Sasuke's core advantages. The full scope of his power and versatility will be explored as needed. My following post will detail that versatility and just how effective it will be. I look forward to the rest of the posts and the actual debating. For now I'll leave the rest to you. At the end of it of all I want to leave a few key things.

  • Sasuke is physically capable of competing with all three people here and his skillset ensures that what he lacks in raw output he can make up for in potency.
  • Sasuke's versatility creates a unique edge that can debilitate Clark and Thor as well as support Naruto throughout the battle.
  • Sasuke is quite capable of turning Thor and Superman's own attacks against them. Forcing them to attack themselves or each other, providing a means to deal damage should he alone not prove to be enough.
  • Despite Thor and Superman's teamwork condition, Naruto and Sasuke have clear and established history and showings to give them the edge in this fight.
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#37 Posted by Darthjhawk (5646 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by Oreoghoul (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#39 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#40 Edited by Supermanthor (21739 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#41 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17105 posts) - - Show Bio

good stuff

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#42 Posted by ourmanuel (12316 posts) - - Show Bio

This’ll be fun

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#43 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2713 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#44 Edited by Alsimmons77 (1788 posts) - - Show Bio

This will prolly end not much different like the Superman and Wonder Woman VS Naruto and Sasuke CAV, but still T4V.

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#45 Posted by blackpantherisb (7340 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#46 Posted by TakenStew22 (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

This is gonna get interesting.

Can't vote so I'll just watch.

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#47 Posted by StormShadow_X (16807 posts) - - Show Bio

Consider me interested

Tag

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#48 Posted by DeadpoolUchiha (300 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#49 Posted by destinyman75 (15217 posts) - - Show Bio

Um what? T4V

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#50 Edited by Crimson_Lord (3038 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.