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#1 Posted by Cyttorakvas (133 posts) - - Show Bio

Will be represented by @cyttorakvas
Will be represented by @cyttorakvas

Rules:

  1. Thor is the Post-Ragnarok incarnation and he will have Mjolnir.
  2. Superman is the Post-Justice League incarnation and will be in-character.
  3. The battle will take place in Asgard.
  4. Basic knowledge.
  5. Win by any means necessary.
  6. There will be an opening argument, followed by two rebuttals and a closing statement.
  7. The opening argument cannot address the opening argument of the other person, and neither can the closing arguments.
  8. Votes will be tallied at the end of the debate.
Will be represented by @gearsecond659
Will be represented by @gearsecond659

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#2 Posted by deactivated-5ace9ec1d0243 (3439 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh boy. T4V

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#3 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17643 posts) - - Show Bio
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Tag 4 Votes

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#4 Posted by Cyttorakvas (133 posts) - - Show Bio
Thor: The God of Thunder
Thor: The God of Thunder

Thor:

Thor is the Asgardian God of Thunder and son of Odin. He is one of the founding members of the Avengers, and has recently been portrayed as their most powerful comrade. He wields the mighty mallet Mjolnir, which was forged from the heart of a dying star. It is his most trusted weapon and is considered the most powerful one that the Avengers have in their arsenal. However, it has recently been stated that it was given to Thor as a means to unleash his true abilities, those of which will be used within this debate. A common misconception is that any D.C.E.U characters can easily defeat most Marvel Cinemactic Universe characters, but this is wrong and based upon incomplete information. D.C.E.U characters most certainly have their limitations and are not as dominating as the community believes.

Weaponry:

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Mjolnir is Thor's weapon of choice, and it something that he has become accustomed to using. It is capable of lightning-based attacks and it always returns to him when it leaves his hand. Furthermore, Thor is capable of throwing it fast enough to fly, which is something that Wonder Woman is not capable of doing herself. There is already a massive advantage that Thor has that Wonder Woman does not. This mallet grants Thor the ability to use God-Blasts, which have been demonstrated to be capable of unleashing more force than Wonder Woman can tolerate, However, Mjolnir is not Thor's only means of attack. Recently, Thor has been able to channel lightning without Mjolnir, which will be a massive advantage for Thor. We'll delve into this later, but for now, let's continue.

Mjolnir is capable of traveling much quicker than even Superman can.
Mjolnir is capable of traveling much quicker than even Superman can.

Mjolnir:

Throughout Thor's depiction within the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Thor has been shown to be capable of some fairly impressive things. He's used his mallet to combat the likes of Frost Giant's, Iron Man, Malekith, Kurse and even the Hulk. Normally, Thor doesn't use Mjolnir to its most devastating capabilities, but because Thor has knowledge about what Superman is capable of, there is no doubt that he would do his best to defeat him. Below is a list of feats regarding Mjolnir's destructive force:

When Thor received his power back in the first film, Mjolnir covered a distance of 55 miles in only 19 seconds, which means that even from a low-end spectrum of its capabilities, it is capable of traveling at Mac 13. This speed doesn't even include the amount of time it took Mjolnir to travel 6,500 feet into the air and back down again, which means that its overall momentum in this one instance is much quicker. This means it was traveling at 24,000 Kilometers per hour.

The Flash is clocked at Mac 5.6, which means that Mjolnir travels faster than Superman can

Loading Video...
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In this scene, Thor channels Mjolnir and it enters the exosphere and comes back down in under 3 seconds. This means that this feat is far more superior than the one listed above, which has already been shown to greatly surpass Superman's reaction time and travel capabilities. Using fan-based calculations, we can determine (on average) that Mjolnir traveled around Mac 5,000, which makes it many, many times quicker than Superman.

Travel Speed:

Even if Thor throws Mjolnir and hangs on, he is still capable of some fairly impressive speed feats. I've included two of his more impressive travel feats, one will demonstrate what he's capable of on average, and the other will demonstrate how fast he can go if he is seriously trying to defeat someone. Keep in mind that during the first film, Thor was more-or-less an arrogant warrior, but he's since matured and doesn't mess around during battles anymore.

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As you can see from the GIF above, the Warrior's three are located as far away as the edge of the horizon, which is how far the human eye can see because of the curvature of the Earth's surface. This has been shown to be around five Kilometers, and Thor was capable of crossing this distance in under eight seconds. This means that, even if he's jobbing, he can travel at Mac 1.8, or 2,250 kilometers-per-hour.

Thor and the Fujita scale:

Neo clocked in at over 6x the speed of an F3 Tornado,
Neo clocked in at over 6x the speed of an F3 Tornado,
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In Thor: The Dark World, Thor grew into a more matured warrior. And during Malekith's invasion of Earth, he demonstrated some of his higher-end feats. In the GIF to the side, he was traveling so quickly that the cars behind him toppled over. This was caused by the wind sucking up the cars behind him.

https://www.quora.com/What-wind-speed-is-needed-for-wind-to-move-a-stationary-car

Using the Fujita scale, we can determine that Thor produced winds equal to that of an F3 Tornado, much slower than what Neo is capable of but still impressive.

A counter to the to the feat above is that the portal that Thor and Malekith entered was what actually sucked in the cars. But this is wrong. The GIF above demonstrates that the sucking force of said portals are barely capable of pulling in a human, and would be far too weak to pull several cars in at once. It was the wind produced from Thor's travel-speed that produced such winds, not the portal itself, which was inconsequential to the feat in question.

Conclusion:

As we can see, Mjolnir always returns to Thor's hand whenever he wants it to, and it does so at speeds that far surpass Wonder Woman's capabilities (within the terminologies of travel-speed and reaction time). Mjolnir is actually hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times faster than Superman's greatest reaction feats. Which means that he would not be capable of reacting to an attack from Thor if he decided to defeat him in one blow. This means that it wouldn't be Superman who would blitz Thor at the start of the fight, but it would be the other way around.

Power:

However, that calls something else into question, 'would Mjolnir be powerful enough to defeat Superman in one blow?' To answer that, we need to look at some feats to demonstrate its capabilities.

Thor is capable of striking with enough force to produce shock-waves, which are certainly larger, and more powerful, than what even Doomsday or D.C.EU. Superman can produce. You can even compare them for yourself. Thor can produce more powerful attacks with Mjolnir than Superman or Zod can produce with their fists.

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Conclusion:

Thor has been stated to have the destructive force of a 30-Megaton Nuke, which isn't hyperbole because this was shown during Sakovia, and he has demonstrated that he most certainly has the striking force required to knock Superman out. However, this likely wouldn't happen because of the opening premise of my argument, which demonstrated how much faster Mjolnir is than Superman's reaction time. This brings us to one final consideration, 'does Thor posses the reaction time need to inflict damage on her?' Well, let's look into this:

Reaction Feats:

One of the largest misconceptions is that Thor does not possess the reaction time need to compete with Superman, or generally anybody from the D.C. Extended Universe. However, this is hugely incorrect. I'm going to demonstrate why Thor does have what is required to react to Superman, especially if he already knows what he is capable of. Before I begin, I would like you to remember when I covered Mjolnir's travel speed, Thor is capable of throwing his hand in the air and catch Mjolnir, even if it is traveling at speeds in excess of Mac 1, or even speeds nearing Mac 2.

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Captain America has:

  1. Dodged attacks from Asgardians.
  2. Blocked multiple attacks from different angles in Age of Ultron.
  3. Engaged Ultron in close-quarter combat

Yet, Thor has demonstrated that his reaction feats surpass that of an enhanced Super Soldier; one who has been able to fight off Spider-Man. Not only that, but Thor deflected multiple attacks that Captain America could not.

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But Thor's reaction feats do not end there, he has shown that he's capable of swinging his hammer, flying and blocking energy-based attacks mid-air, which is an extremely impressive.

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One of the most impressive reaction feats from Thor is during Age of Ultron. As you can see from the GIF above, Thor appears as a glow of energy because he is traveling so quickly. This is impressive because it demonstrates that Thor can react to his surroundings at speeds that are too fast for ordinary humans to see.

Wrap-Up:

The following contentions have been established:

  1. Mjolnir can out-pace Superman's combat speed and reaction time.
  2. Mjolnir possesses enough destructive force to one-shot him before she can react.
  3. Thor possesses the reaction time needed to get the best of him at the start of the fight.
  4. Thor would incapacitate him within the opening moments of the battle.
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#5 Posted by Cyttorakvas (133 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17643 posts) - - Show Bio

sweet post

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#7 Posted by Chimeroid (8891 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. Really cool opener. One question though, why the rule about no counters for openers? That seems silly. Especially since your opener was not just an intro, but a full-out debate.

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#8 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17081 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I'm guessing so the second poster won't have more counters than the one who went first.

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#9 Posted by Cyttorakvas (133 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. Really cool opener. One question though, why the rule about no counters for openers? That seems silly. Especially since your opener was not just an intro, but a full-out debate.

By that I meant, his opener shouldn't counter mine. It just wouldn't be fair. I never had an opportunity to address a point that he established so why should he? Nothing personal.

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#10 Posted by Chimeroid (8891 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid: I'm guessing so the second poster won't have more counters than the one who went first.

@chimeroid said:

T4V. Really cool opener. One question though, why the rule about no counters for openers? That seems silly. Especially since your opener was not just an intro, but a full-out debate.

By that I meant, his opener shouldn't counter mine. It just wouldn't be fair. I never had an opportunity to address a point that he established so why should he? Nothing personal.

Did he agree on that rule?

Also, you should counter opener information if the first poster is being disingenuous. With that rule someone could go around posting all kind of shit and avoid it being countered. Hell, you could manipulate a video with Batman busting a planet and "win" since he is not allowed to counter it.

That rule is only sound if you do not touch upon SUperman at all. However, you did make claims about Superman here. He should definitely get to counter it.

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#11 Edited by Cyttorakvas (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@chimeroid said:
@king_hellstorm said:

@chimeroid: I'm guessing so the second poster won't have more counters than the one who went first.

@cyttorakvas said:
@chimeroid said:

T4V. Really cool opener. One question though, why the rule about no counters for openers? That seems silly. Especially since your opener was not just an intro, but a full-out debate.

By that I meant, his opener shouldn't counter mine. It just wouldn't be fair. I never had an opportunity to address a point that he established so why should he? Nothing personal.

Did he agree on that rule?

Also, you should counter opener information if the first poster is being disingenuous. With that rule someone could go around posting all kind of shit and avoid it being countered. Hell, you could manipulate a video with Batman busting a planet and "win" since he is not allowed to counter it.

That rule is only sound if you do not touch upon SUperman at all. However, you did make claims about Superman here. He should definitely get to counter it.

He sure did. If he wants to change it he can private message me.

He can establish points about Thor, but as long as his opening statement doesn't serve as a direct counter my own. Such arguments are better left unsaid until we construct counter-arguments to each others opening statements, which occurs in the next phase. Please stop derailing the thread.

Thank-you.

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#12 Posted by TheWatcherKing (17890 posts) - - Show Bio

tag

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#13 Posted by macleen (2790 posts) - - Show Bio

um, why is Wonderwoman mentioned several times here.T4V

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#14 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyttorakvas said:

@gearsecond659 Wondering if you're still interested in doing this?

I'm still interested in doing this. But I have to say that your opener is addressing a lot of the points I was going to bring up. Thus, I don't think it's fair that I'm not aloud to do the same. I know I agreed to your conditions, but it seems almost like this rule is advantageous towards you after I read your opener.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyttorakvas said:

@gearsecond659 Wondering if you're still interested in doing this?

I'm still interested in doing this. But I have to say that your opener is addressing a lot of the points I was going to bring up. Thus, I don't think it's fair that I'm not aloud to do the same. I know I agreed to your conditions, but it seems almost like this rule is advantageous towards you after I read your opener.

As soon as you approve this, I will resume working on my opener.

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#17 Posted by Supermanforever (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

sad i didnt get to cav for Superman. Though pretty much missmatch t4v let see how it goes.

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#18 Posted by Supermanforever (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659 said:
@cyttorakvas said:

@gearsecond659 Wondering if you're still interested in doing this?

I'm still interested in doing this. But I have to say that your opener is addressing a lot of the points I was going to bring up. Thus, I don't think it's fair that I'm not aloud to do the same. I know I agreed to your conditions, but it seems almost like this rule is advantageous towards you after I read your opener.

As soon as you approve this, I will resume working on my opener.

i could cav instead of you if you want :D

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5ace9ec1d0243 (3439 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Edited by ThunderPrince (6484 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#21 Posted by destinyman75 (12925 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#22 Posted by Amcu (14478 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#23 Edited by APEX_pretador (18636 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Sad that I wanted to CaV you on this

Unfortunately the lack of time, though

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#24 Edited by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

mm

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#25 Posted by Supermanforever (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Sad that I wanted to CaV you on this

Unfortunately the lack of time, though

true had lack of time lately as im preparing to buy house. But maybe anytime on holidays or so we could do :))

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#26 Posted by Laiks Stake (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V