CaV: The Demon King(RikuYamaha) Vs Ichigo Kurosaki(LeoTheGreatest) Open for Voters

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RikuYamaha

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#1  Edited By RikuYamaha
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RikuYamaha-The Demon King

vs

No Caption Provided

LeoTheGreatest- Ichigo Kurosaki

Rules of this match

  • Random Encounter-No Knowledge

  • Soul Crush is restricted
  • Both are IC but are determined to win
  • both are at their strongest.
  • Demon king has access to all his powers
  • Ichigo has access to the horn of salvation
  • Magic=Reiatsu
  • Manga/Canon feats for ichigo and King
  • Wins by Death, K.O. or Incapacitation
  • Location: Soul Society

CaV Rules

This is a CaV which means only we are allowed to debate on such topic. any unnecessary comments will not count for such debate.

If you wish to be tagged for votes say "T4V" or if you wanna be tagged for a vinner, say "TAEP"

Vote on who you think debated better, not on who you personally think would win in a fight.

Please give reasons for your vote or they will not be counted.

This is a friendly debate, any rude or bias comments will not count.

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HitTheAssasin

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Djibbo__

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Good luck, writer kun and Leo sensei. TAEP

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RikuYamaha

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TOPAZZZ

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#6 TOPAZZZ  Online

sure! taep

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UltimateSage

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ok lol, taep!!!!!!!!!!!

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JOVIOLMA

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#8 JOVIOLMA  Online

t4v

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Undeckedlion395

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ovy7

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This could be interesting, TAEP for now.

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ThousandSteps

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TAEP and good luck to both.

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mevbi

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Taep an t4v

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Wot_m8

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TAEP

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AlexTheBoss

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Azureus

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TAEP/T4V

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LeoTheGreatest

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#16  Edited By LeoTheGreatest  Online
The Head of the War Potentials
The Head of the War Potentials

Scaling

Scaling is when a character has shown they are or are stated to be comparable to another character in power, stats and or intellect.

Bleach is a series that uses scaling.

I want to make it clear that when I scale a certain stat from a character such as physical strength I am not claiming every single character who is overall more powerful than that character has more physical strength.

If the power hierarchy starts with A and I use a feat from D and scale it all the way up to A I‘m not saying that B and C scale to be above it in the same way. A and D could be predominantly physical fighters while B and C aren’t so they wouldn’t necessarily scale to it in the same way.

Though most of the time in Bleach you could scale characters to all stats, that’s not a point I need to prove here I’d like my opponent and those reading to focus specifically on the characters I’m talking about and understand that the characters in between are place holders of power.

When I talk about a specific stat I also want those reading and my opponent to solely focus on that stat. For example I will be talking about reaction speed, that is not to get confused with any other form of speed unless I say otherwise.

Attack Potency is what’s mainly going to be discussed in the power section.

Scaling is very important when deducing the power of both these characters so respect the scaling.

Strength/Power- 1

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Vasto Lorde Ichigo has more than enough power to defeat the Demon King.

Vasto Lorde Ichigo had enough power to completely manhandle the strongest Espada Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra.

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The power of Ulquiorra‘s first release alone was capable of destroying Las Noches entirely. In other series there are big flashy attacks that indicate a massive increase in power for the entire series. This would be it. Tite Kubo the author decided to take another route so we have to imagine that Las Noches got completely destroyed. I’m sure we can do that.

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Especially considering Released Ulquiorra had no problem vaporizing half of the canopy.

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If he had aimed lower it would’ve vaporized half of Las Noches entirely

The 3rd, 2nd, 1st and 0 Espada scale to be above that level of power.

  • Las Noches is a Large Island level construct

Before even entering we get the statement that simply walking to the gate would take 3 days.

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The main misconception about Las Noches’ size is about how the pillars at the top are shown in comparison to Las Noches.

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But there has to be reason applied when looking at something like this. Understand that drawing a wide shot of such a massive structure while also making the setting of the current fight still visible is difficult so it’s obviously not going to be drawn to scale. If it were drawn to scale then every single structure and setting within Las Noches would've been seen as soon as Ulquiorra blasted Ichigo into Las Noches’ desert instead every single setting is divided by a horizons length.

These massive structures would easily be seen from anywhere in Las Noches if those pillars at the top were truly drawn to size.

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So if the 4th Espada alone can destroy Las Noches by simply going into his release and Ichigo is above all of them by a considerable amount who are each multiple times more powerful than the other it easily puts Vasto Lorde Ichigo in the country levels of power.

This power also isn’t strictly for his energy attacks either as seen in multiple instances for most physical oriented characters (including Ichigo himself) energy attacks = physical attack.

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The Demon King’s “The Ruler” hasn’t shown to be able to convert this much power into strength but regardless Ichigo has the superior physicals.

Strength/Power-2

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This was originally going to be The Demon King VS Vasto Lorde Ichigo but my opponent also believes that The Demon King can defeat EoS Ichigo. I‘m going to explain why it’s spite.

True Shikai Ichigo alone is as powerful if not more powerful than Dangai Ichigo who’s power is best explained in this scan.

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Butterfly Aizen achieved of level of power that is described as an entire dimensional tier above characters like Vasto Lorde Ichigo (not in the literal sense).

Dangai Ichigo is a Trancendantto Monster Aizen who‘s a transformation above Butterfly Aizen and is described as “The form of God”.

When serious he casually overpowered 12 Fraggors combined.

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If each fraggor is Continental this feat would easily be Planet Surface level in AP.

If all that scaling got you dizzy the next part will be better.

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HoS Shikai Ichigo is an entirely different league.

He rivaled Soul King Yhwach in power and forced him to resort to The Almighty.

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Prior to that Yhwach ridiculed Mimihagi and then absorbed it and the Soul King.

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When the Soul King was initially ”killed” by Ichigo all the 3 worlds in Bleach started collapsing

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Mimihagi came out of Ukitake and instantly stopped the 3 worlds from collapsing.

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That’s a Multi-Planetary feat. Done by a character far below Ichigo.

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Though we didn’t get to see him at his peak HoS Bankai Ichigo is massively above his Shikai counterpart as seen when he got robbed of his HoS and only had his Bankai he was still able to contend with the likes of Yhwach and Aizen and even kill Yhwach.

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These versions of Ichigo shouldn’t even be mentioned in NNT threads.

Speed-1

The best way to deduce Vasto Lorde Ichigo’s speed is with Gin Ichimaru’s Kamishini no Yari

The speed at which he extended it against Ichigo at first was at mach 500. Ichigo dodged this without his mask.

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He later used Buto and Buto Renjin against Ichigo. He dodged this as well, without his mask.

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Buto doubles the speed of Kamishini no Yari.

- Text on Buto Renjin: 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、 桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。 - That's the raw. The part to look at is 倍 which means double. - 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 -
- Text on Buto Renjin: 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、 桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。 - That's the raw. The part to look at is 倍 which means double. - 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 - "A technique to fire Buto at ultra high speeds." -「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。- "Buto's offensive ability that purposefully doubles it's speed, it's an order of magnitude higher in power and must be held in one's hand to accomplish."

It's also important to note that Ichigo wasn't performing his best while evading Kamishini no Shari.

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Base Aizen Vasto Lorde Ichigo scales to effortlessly Blitzed Visored Bankai Ichigo several times and stated that the difference between them is so large that distance is irrelevant.

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Now is where the reaction part that I mentioned in the scaling section comes into play.

Ichigo’s reactions have always increased whenever he got a boost in power.

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His V2 mask is above his V1 mask so his reaction boost would be substantial easily to the point of 5 digit mach speeds.

This makes him much faster than The Demon King.

Speed-2

I previously explained how HoS Shikai and Bankai Ichigo are above Mimihagi in the Strength/power-2 section.

While performing it’s strength feat Mimihagi also performed a speed feat.

It travelled from the Soul Society to the Soul Palace a distance of millions of miles in a second flat or even less.

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The distance between the Soul Society and the Soul Palace is a distance of millions because it took several MHS + characters hours to get from the Soul Palace to the Soul Society.

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I hope that no one reading is thinking “but wouldn’t that mean the Soul Palace is in space?” No the Soul Palace resides in a different dimension entirely.

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This would make Mimihagi’s feat FTL.

Again, these versions of Ichigo shouldn’t even be mentioned in an NNT thread.

Durability/Endurance

Though it doesn’t necessarily matter against The Demon King Ichigo boasts high energy durability and physical durability, tanking attacks that are well be above his weight class.

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Later Blut Vene increased his durability further.

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He can also fight after having his organs severely damaged and even survive his heart being vaporized completely.

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Ichigo also boasts high stamina being able to fight for 3 months straight.

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Conclusion

  • Vasto Lorde Ichigo is too powerful, fast and durable for the Demon King.
  • Any stronger version of Ichigo is too powerful for the entirety of Nanatsu no Tazai.
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LeoTheGreatest

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Azureus

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Now let's see what the DK got.

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FaradaySloth

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T4V and TAEP

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Kalebsmarty156

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Hm, I don't quite agree with what Leo said there, but his post was short and to the point, and considering this is a CaV, I'll let that slide for now in the hope that his next posts would solidify his stance.

Now, let's see what the Demon King has.

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El_directo_

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Good post man but, Continental/multicontinental fragor? That's new. Anyways really good post.

Pls T4v thanks!

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Undre

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TheEmperor95

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I don't agree with some of those points. You went to very extreme end things like fraggor being continental but never explained how that would even be.

Let's see how your opponent responds

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Adam2

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Nice post let's see how it's countered.

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LeoTheGreatest

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#26  Edited By LeoTheGreatest  Online

@theemperor95: @el_directo_: @ovy7:

The reason why you’re supposed to wait for the end of the CaV to give your opinions is because the presenters aren’t done.

My next post will further support the claims in my opener.

Leave the critiques to my opponent for now, thanks.

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RikuYamaha

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#27  Edited By RikuYamaha

since we are doing the strongest forms of each...this makes this much more enjoyable.

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Things to know

Powers are mysterious abilities invoked through unknown means. The source of an individual's power is stated to be drawn from one's will, beliefs and experience. The power resides within the body itself even though the catalyst to awaken one's power is unknown.

Spells are operations of magical powers that can be triggered either inherently or by Incantation Orbs. A spell can have a variety of different effects based entirely on what kind of spell it is, what type of spell it is, and the overall strength and magic power.

Commandment is a unique power created by the Demon King over 3,000 years ago. There are ten in total and each has a unique curse bestowed upon anyone who breaks its rule.

Scaling

as you have mentioned, scaling is good in battles, and as of now, i'll be focusing on scaling DK from the sins, then the commandements, then the archangels.

now lets start with BoS Meliodas. Here, BoS Meliodas splits a large hill with the shockwave of him swinging a twig, which isn't anywhere near him with his Sacred Treasure Lostvayne.

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this would put BoS mel at around large hill level, with a twig. this is already impressive in of itself as the shockwave was the power that split it. In physics, a shock wave is a type of propagating disturbance that moves faster than the local speed of sound in the medium. Like an ordinary wave, a shock wave carries energy and can propagate through a medium but is characterized by an abrupt, nearly discontinuous, change in pressure, temperature, and density of the medium. Unlike solitons (another kind of nonlinear wave), the energy and speed of a shock wave alone dissipates relatively quickly with distance. When a shock wave passes through matter, the energy is preserved but entropy increases. This change in the matter's properties manifests itself as a decrease in the energy which can be extracted as work, and as a drag force on supersonic objects. so has he swung this, the weaker shockwave was the one that split said hill, not even his true might, but a meer shockwave.

but let's get out of impressive feats, and let's get into the good stuff.

his Sacred Treasure Lostvayne, BoS Meliodas could slices the arm of an Albion into several pieces with a casual swing.

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The reason this is impressive is because Albion's are absolutely enormous monsters that are Mountain sized by statements and by on-panel showings. Additionally to that, cutting them is not easy as they are immensely durable. we can see a casual albions are capable of mountain destroying feats, as shown here.(Source https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-yhwach-darthjhawk-and-demon-king-hittheassassi-2026092/)

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reckon they are not the same kind of albion, they should be comparable. and it doesn't matter if they are, cause Mel scales above them by a higher margin.

but still a unimpressive feat you might be saying to yourself with "Planet level ichigo" but this is by a drastically weaker mel then the one who fought DK. but lets get into assault mode. from Assault Mode Meliodas After tanking a punch to the face from an almost noon Escanor,which is a mountain+ to island level character, he proceeds to punch him in the face so hard that he goes flying dozens of meters.

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this is immensely impressive as escanor has shown to tank mountain+ to island level attacks without flinching.

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this shows Mel having greater attack power then escanor in almost noon form. but you might be thinking why this is impressive, well, galand was able to do theses feats without much effort put into it.

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with galand having muti mountain level AP, and escanor blocking such without blinking in a weaker form puts escanors durability around island level. if you dont think galand is muti mountain level, here is his attack shown from a different perspective.

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This was also way earlier in the day(Escanor's power rises with the Sun), when his power level was only 50,060, as opposed to the 114,000 he had when he fought Meliodas. So, without even getting into the Mel that fought Dk, this puts mel well above island level in AP in assault mode at this point,which got likely higher as he trained in purgatory.(Source https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-yhwach-darthjhawk-and-demon-king-hittheassassi-2026092/)

but enough of scaling, let's get into the meat and potatoes.

Demon Kings strength.

DK dwarfing island level AP is quite apparent. this is no outlier for the Demon Lord as he has several feats showcasing his power to be solidly in the country level+ range. let show some of DK raw attacks.

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easily a small country level explosion demon king can spit out casually while battling. he is far superior to mael, who can passively part the clouds and uproot trees with his power.

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when Mael dispelled the clouds and the darkness the Original Demon had spread across a large portion of Brittania with his passive energy, despite the amount of power such a feat would take.

he is even able to fight on par with Post Purgatory ban who is comparable to the now meliodas, which is county level.

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Note how Mael, the character who performed a large island+ level feat by flexing, himself notes how it's completely impossible for him to block even a single shot from DK Meliodas' creation, the same Demon King that had access to only 50% of his power(real body in Purgatory, containing the other 50%) and was further nerfed by not being able to output nearly all of that power due to his mental struggle with Meliodas. Despite these nerfs, a single shot held enough power that Mael felt it should be utterly impossible to stop it despite having his brother Ludoshel there to help him.(Source https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-yhwach-darthjhawk-and-demon-king-hittheassassi-2026092/)

he can be scaled to mel, who done this while pissed

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this is easily above mutli mountain. but back to the explosions.

realise that thing is spamming these blasts, five in direct succession, with no signs of stopping. no amount of Blut Vene will save Ichigo from bombardment of theses.

also in a much much much weaker form then him in mel, he can casually swing muti mountain to lsland level attacks.

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this puts DK around Continent level by scaling and feats.

but this is quite clear that DK has the strength advantage over ichigo.

lets get into speed

SPEED

i will admit, the DK by himself doesn't have much speed feats, but he can be scaled to zeldris, mel and ban.

at the beginning of the series, mel easily reacted to multiple lightning strikes casually.

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To give you an idea, Galan, one of the Ten Commandments, is capable of jumping out of Merlin's magic reach just by jumping casually .

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Merlin has shown to be able to open portals and teleport people even if they are hundreds of miles away. and gland was able to jump several miles away then appear behind her before she could even react. Galan was able to get out of her spell radius of hundreds of miles in that split second the spell took to hit him. and meliodas was capable of blitzing galand before he could react.

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(mile per second): 100=meters per seconds=160,932. to put it bluntly=160932m/s= 472.9260Mach. or 400 mach. but i'll low it and say its around fodder femritter speed.

but zeldris, who can move at FTL is far slower then DK.

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as seen, zeldris can even deflect escanor in his one form, which is Much faster then Assault mode mel. and escanor can overpower zeldris while hes moving at much speeds, which doesn't really count as a speed feat, more of a strength feat. but considering DK can move just as fast as zeldris.

even then, he was fast enough to make lightning come to a standstill by pure speed alone

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With cloud to ground lightning being Mach 286, this irrefutably puts both of them solidly into the quad mach ranges, something that is more than backed up by the feats performed by weaker characters, like Cruel Sun feat, which also clocks in at Mach 900, and was outsped by far weaker versions of Meliodas than the one the King reacted to.

this should say on how fast DK is compared to Ichigo

now lets get into durability.

Durability

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when Ban punches him in the same position the Tower struck him earlier, he coughs up an absurd amount of blood, and the force of the Tower's upwards movement is completely stopped. This makes it reasonable to assume that Ban's physicals have a force greater than that of a 20 kilometer+(large mountain) Diamond Tower moving at speeds great enough to reach that height nigh-instantly. we know diamonds are though to break. as they have two strengths. tensile and compressive.(Source https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-yhwach-darthjhawk-and-demon-king-hittheassassi-2026092/)

Tensile Strength: Diamond has the highest tensile strength of any material, at 2.8 gigapascals. if a long, thin, perfect crystal of diamond could be manufactured, it would offer the highest possible pulling strength.

Compressive Strength: Diamond was once thought to be the material most resistant to compression (the least compressible). It is the material that scientists use to create the greatest pressures when testing matter. However, the rare metal Osmium has recently been shown to be even less compressible (although it is not as hard as diamond). Diamond has a bulk modulus (reciprocal of compressibility) of 443 GigaPascals (GPa).

this would give ban something that gives a Kinetic Energy of multi-mountain+ to small islandlevel. he was able to completely fight both ban and meliodas while in 50%

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In order

Feat 1: able to defend himself and take a beating from mel and ban at 50% each

feat 2: able to still fight even after his horn been lopped off and could still fight in the real world with ban and tank most of his attacks.

feat 3: able to no sell his own country level explosions like nothing

feat 4: able to tank a series of serious and killer intent hits from ban.

his stamina is allso god like, as he was able to contend with Ban, Mel and pork for 60 years without break

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Powers/Hax

his most dangerous features. he is a original demon,which gives him a wide subset of powers. as a Demon, he has more than one heart. The number of hearts varies, although upper-level demons have seven hearts. The removal or destruction of a single heart does not incur death as the DK has this. even low level demons have demonic auras that can be shown off.

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he has the Power of Darkness, which allsos Demons to create and manipulate a mysterious dark substance to enhance both their offensive and defensive abilities the darkness can create various weapons and to protect him from attacks that would otherwise cause serious injury. It can also be morphed into various shapes as well. but the best feature is its high speed regen,as seen where the commandment of love was able to seemly instantly regen from a cruel sun from escanor.

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even with this, he could soul rip and eat ichigos soul, as soul ripping is a standard power of a demon, as they can soul rip someones soul, no matter how strong they are.

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even then, the DK can summon lightning bolts casually that can cause critical damage if hit.

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but his most power ability...

THE RULER

The Demon King's eponymous magic ability that also goes by his own name. It allows him to invert all the attacks sent at him, including Meliodas and Ban's Full Counter and Snatch abilities. All attacks and weakness are converted into healing and fortification. Even the effects of others' powers are completely reversed; per example, when Ban tried to steal Demon King's energy, he was forced to give his own to the ruler.

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this alone will stop ichigo from even touching him, let alone the other commandment curses. but now to the debunks

COUNTERS

Vasto Lorde Ichigo has more than enough power to defeat the Demon King.

baseless and wrong.

Vasto Lorde Ichigo had enough power to completely manhandle the strongest EspadaSegunda Etapa Ulquiorra.

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not impressive, as ulq hasn't shown the level of DC or speed of mel. as i shown previously before.

The power of Ulquiorra‘s first release alone was capable of destroying Las Noches entirely. In other series they’re are big flashy attacks that indicate a massive increase in power for the entire series. This would be it. Tite Kubo the author decided to take another route so we have to imagine that Las Noches got completely destroyed. I’m sure we can do that.

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Especially considering Released Ulquiorra had no problem vaporizing half of the canopy.

they had to above the canopy for him to release his release, and he didn't vaporize it, he just reduced it to rubble. there is a clear difference between vaping and destroying.

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If he had aimed lower it would’ve vaporized half of Las Noches entirely

based on?

The 3rd, 2nd, 1st and 0 Espada scale to be above that level of power.

yeah? so what, the third had trouble against a bankai hitsugaya, a city level opponent, while 2 took damage from a city level explosion and got killed by his own power,while starrk(My favorite) got killed by a half serious shunsui. and 0 got fodderized by ken and pedal boy, which isn't as impressive.

Las Noches is Large Island level construct

i'd scale los noches to a kingdom to how its shaped. hucho mundo is at least country if we use it with the soul society.

Before even entering we get the statement that simply walking to the gate would take 3 days.

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The main misconception about Las Noches’ size is about how the pillars at the top are shown in comparison to Las Noches.

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There has to be reason applied when looking at something like this. Understand that drawing a wide shot of such a massive structure while also making the setting of the current fight still visible is difficult so it’s obviously not going to be drawn to scale.

it doesn't matter hows it drawn, it matters on the overall construct of said drawing.

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we can see by the scan im showing is muti mountain to at least island level by showing the mountain in comparison with the blast and the surrounding area.

If it were drawn to scale then every single structure and setting within Las Noches would've been seen as soon as Ulquiorra blasted Ichigo into Las Noches’ desert instead every single setting is divided by a horizons length.

head cannon.

These massive structures would easily be seen from anywhere in Las Noches if those pillars at the top were truly drawn to size.

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your forgot something. in comparison with the los noches and the three day walk, which is massive, the pillars would still remain small in comparison with the blast and the building

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So if the 4th Espada alone can destroy Las Noches by simply going into his release and Ichigo is above all of them by a considerable amount who are each multiple times more powerful than the other it easily puts Vasto Lorde Ichigo in the country levels of power.

wrong and baseless, considering the los noches building is at least city level which would put vasto lorde at least Mountain if we scale.

This power also isn’t strictly for his energy attacks either as seen in multiple instances for most physical oriented characters (including Ichigo himself) energy attacks = physical attack.

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you mean where he traded most of his power for physical strength? and what you mean by "this power"? you shown ichigo being at least mountain level by that point.

The Demon King’s “The Ruler” hasn’t shown to be able to convert this much power into strength but regardless Ichigo has the superior physicals.

the ruler has shown country level converts to push damage of any kind into health and defence. nothing ichigo will do will hurt DK.

Power-2

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This was originally going to be The Demon King VS Vasto Lorde Ichigo but my opponent also believes that The Demon King can defeat EoS Ichigo. I‘m going to explain why it’s spite.

its not spite, but a rather interesting match considering ichigo is nothing more then a brick.

True Shikai Ichigo alone is as powerful if not more powerful than Dangai Ichigo who’s power is best explained in this scan.

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Butterfly Aizen achieved of level of power that is described as an entire dimensional tier above characters like Vasto Lorde Ichigo (not in the literal sense).

if it was a dimensional tier higher, then dangai would be killed instantly considering if your saying butterfly is 6th dimensional.

Dangai Ichigo is a Trancendant to Monster Aizen who‘s a transformation above Butterfly Aizen and is described as “The form of God”.

names are not to be used in the literal sense, as example vegetas big bang attack, which is obviously isnt as powerful as a big bang. the form of god your implying wasnt said in the panels, and such will and should be ignored.

When serious he casually overpowered 12 Fraggors combined.

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If each fraggor is Continental to Multi-Contental this feat would easily be Planet Surface level in AP.

no...just no. at bare minimum fragor is mountain to at least muti mountain

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you can clearly see the "mountains" in the background, which isnt impressive whatsoever to the anger of mel that done something similar to greater

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if you say fragor is Multi-Contental, that'll make a weaker version of mel the same, to which is incredibly stupid and unimformed.

If all that scaling got you dizzy the next part will be better.

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HoS Shikai Ichigo is an entirely different league.

oh good, maybe something good.

He rivaled Soul King Yhwach in power and forced him to resort to The Almighty.

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pfft, forced him too? really? yhwach was toying with ichigo the entire time, and when he activated true bankai, yhwach broke it in a instant cause he felt like it was useless.

Prior to that Yhwach ridiculed Mimihagi and then absorbed it and the Soul King.

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When the Soul King was initially ”killed” by Ichigo all the 3 worlds in Bleach started collapsing

yeah, thats what happens when the person holding it up dies. an ichigo isn't causing the collapse, the missing soul king is. lets say a support beam was the only thing holding up a bird house. if i took a sledgehammer to the beam and broke it in half, the bird house would fall and be destroyed.

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Mimihagi came out of Ukitake and instantly stopped the 3 worlds from collapsing.

it wasn't instant, it was at bar minimal three seconds due to the time it had to climb up there.

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That’s a Multi-Planetary feat. Done by a character far below Ichigo.

sigh, that wasn't even caused by ichigo and lmao at ichigo being stronger then the soul king. if he was as strong as the soul king, he would of been capable of saving the worlds from collapse before the mimikage had to intervene.

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Though we didn’t get to see him at his peak HoS Bankai Ichigo is massively above his Shikai counterpart as seen when he got robbed of his HoS and only had his Bankai he was still able to contend with the likes of Yhwach and Aizen and even kill Yhwach.

due to yhwach being under a illusion and ichigo catching the drop on him, and yhwach having terrible durability feats compared to DK

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These versions of Ichigo shouldn’t even be mentioned in NNT threads.

very true, cause its full of outliers and head cannons and fan theories, along with terrible scaling.

speed-1

The best way to deduce Vasto Lorde Ichigo’s speed is with Gin Ichimaru’s Kamishini no Yari

oh boy, the gin feat.

The speed at which he extended it against Ichigo at first was at mach 500. Ichigo dodged this without his mask.

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He later used Buto and Buto Renjin against Ichigo. He dodged this as well, without his mask.

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Buto doubles the speed of Kamishini no Yari.

- Text on Buto Renjin: 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、 桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。 - That's the raw. The part to look at is 倍 which means double. - 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 -
- Text on Buto Renjin: 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、 桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。 - That's the raw. The part to look at is 倍 which means double. - 超高速で「 無踏」 を放つ技。 - "A technique to fire Buto at ultra high speeds." -「 無踏」 の攻撃力と速さが倍化されるため、桁違いの威力を持った攻撃となる。- "Buto's offensive ability that purposefully doubles it's speed, it's an order of magnitude higher in power and must be held in one's hand to accomplish."

you are using a false scan, as gin stated to aizen, not to long after that

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he lied about his true nature of his bankai. at a fair minim, his bankai can go around mach 20 or mach 40, no where near mach 500

It's also important to note that Ichigo wasn't performing his best while evading Kamishini no Shari.

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ok? that has something to do with?

Base Aizen Vasto Lorde Ichigo scales to effortlessly Blitzed Visored Bankai Ichigo several times and stated that the difference between them is so large that distance is irrelevant.

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due to his illusions.

Now is where the reaction part that I mentioned in the scaling section comes into play.

Ichigo’s reactions have always increased whenever he got a boost in power.

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His V2 mask is above his V1 mask so his reaction boost would be substantial easily to the point of 5 digit mach speeds.

nothing you mentioned makes him a five digit mach. at the very least, hes around a 3 digit mach and thats high ball at that point.

This makes him much faster than The Demon King.

Speed-2

I previously explained how HoS Shikai and Bankai Ichigo are above Mimihagi in the Strength/power-2 section.

in which i debunked.

While performing it’s strength feat Mimihagi also performed a speed feat.

It travelled from the Soul Society to the Soul Palace a distance of millions of miles in a second flat or even less.

iin three to four seconds has i shown.

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The distance between the Soul Society and the Soul Palace is a distance of millions because it took several MHS + characters hours to get from the Soul Palace to the Soul Society.

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no ones arguing against that. but the speed in which you put it at was a bit off.

I hope that no one reading is thinking “but wouldn’t that mean the Soul Palace is in space?” No the Soul Palace resides in a different dimension entirely.

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This would make Mimihagi’s feat FTL.

um, in miles per second, he would be going 277.78

Again, these versions of Ichigo should even be mentioned in an NNT thread.

true, if your wanking it to high heaven.

Durability/Endurance

Though it doesn’t necessarily matter against The Demon King, Ichigo boasts high energy durability and physical durability, tanking attacks that are well be above his weight class.

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Later Blut Vene increased his durability further.

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the feats you shown is at town to mountain level attacks, while DK NO SELLED a county destroying blast.

He can also fight after having his organs severely damaged and even survive his heart being vaporized completely.

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cool, so can any normal demon with darkness.

Ichigo also boasts high stamina being able to fight for 3 months straight.

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fodder level stamina to DK who fought for 60 years without break

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Conclusion

  • Vasto Lorde Ichigo is too powerful, fast and durable for the Demon King.
  • as i shown, this is truly false.
  • Any stronger version of Ichigo is too powerful for the entirety of Nanatsu no Tazai.
  • as i also shown, this is allso false.

MY own conclusion.

DK has higher DC and AP then ichigo to end him in two strikes.

DK got better durability to no sell any attack ichigo throws at him.

DK has better powers to kill ichigo[via he trys to send a cero/getsuga at him only for it to be reflected and hit ichigo]

DK has better overall stats and feats

DK is the true winner.

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Now show me what you got.

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mevbi

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@rikuyamaha: I was just about to close CV and close my laptop, but then i saw the notification.

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RikuYamaha

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Kalebsmarty156

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#31  Edited By Kalebsmarty156

Funny CAV

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mevbi

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Anyways nice post with a little bit highball. Zeldris isn't FTL.

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Wot_m8

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Nice Cav huge wank from both sides.

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im still a little rusty at CaVs..hopefully im still up for a good challenge.

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@mevbi: i dont believe i said that, i believe he has FTL combat speed

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#36 TOPAZZZ  Online

@wot_m8 said:

Nice Cav huge wank from both sides.

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@rikuyamaha: no one is anywere near FTL in SDS. That was some serious reaching. If gland is mach 400 at a PL of 26,000 meli should be mach 4000 at best considering his PL is 10x higher.

And DK melis explosion is no were country it dwaft village buildings which 2 to 3 stories(12m). lazan dwaft 300m+ sky skyscraper pillars.

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Lol funny CAV

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#41  Edited By LeoTheGreatest  Online

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Scaling Counters:

It seems you don’t understand how the scaling in NNT works.

In NNT the levels of power are closer than what you’re insinuating.

  • Dolor and Gloxinia VS Chandler
  • Merlin VS Chandler and Cusack
  • The current Sins VS The Demon King

Among other fights these all display characters who should be 100+ above the others keeping up and even hurting their superior multiple times without any power up.

now lets start with BoS Meliodas. Here, BoS Meliodas splits a large hill with the shockwave of him swinging a twig, which isn't anywhere near him with his Sacred Treasure Lostvayne.

Chad has a relative feat in he HM arc.

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That attack was easily blocked by Tesla

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Who was casually bisected by Kenpachi in his released form which multiplied his power, who then initially failed to even scratch Base Nnoitra with a more serious attack.

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This would put Released Nnoitra comfortably in the Mountain-Multi Mountain range. and he’s only the 5th Espada.

This was also way earlier in the day(Escanor's power rises with the Sun), when his power level was only 50,060, as opposed to the 114,000 he had when he fought Meliodas. So, without even getting into the Mel that fought Dk, this puts mel well above island level in AP in assault mode at this point,which got likely higher as he trained in purgatory.

His PL was being increasing that much doesn’t justify Island level physicals for AM Mel all feats you displayed for Galan were him putting his utmost effort and still at best doing mountain level damage. These characters don’t have set power ups that multiply their power like in Bleach.

This is all still below the likes of Vasto Lorde Ichigo.

Strength Counter:

DK dwarfing island level AP is quite apparent. this is no outlier for the Demon Lord as he has several feats showcasing his power to be solidly in the country level+ range. let show some of DK raw attacks.

Here you start with saying you’ll get him to Country + level.

easily a small country level explosion demon king can spit out casually while battling. he is far superior to mael, who can passively part the clouds and uproot trees with his power.

Bring up Sighing Sage an explosion with zero feats except city busting and call it small country level when in reality its only an Island+ level explosion in by scaling.

when Mael dispelled the clouds and the darkness the Original Demon had spread across a large portion of Brittania with his passive energy, despite the amount of power such a feat would take.

Cloud dispelling is never as impressive as people make it seem and BTW they weren’t spread across a large portion of Britannia they were spread across a large city ranged area at best.

he is even able to fight on par with Post Purgatory ban who is comparable to the now meliodas, which is county level.

Country level out of nowhere.

Note how Mael, the character who performed a large island+ level feat by flexing, himself notes how it's completely impossible for him to block even a single shot from DK Meliodas' creation, the same Demon King that had access to only 50% of his power(real body in Purgatory, containing the other 50%) and was further nerfed by not being able to output nearly all of that power due to his mental struggle with Meliodas. Despite these nerfs, a single shot held enough power that Mael felt it should be utterly impossible to stop it despite having his brother Ludoshel there to help him.

They weren’t even spread across a large island level range. And you say all of this but then at the same time the sins were currently putting up a fight against him despite having his full attention and him being amped by the lake. This would make no sense if he dwarfs them in power like you’re insinuating.

also in a much much much weaker form then him in mel, he can casually swing muti mountain to lsland level attacks.

That was barely mountain level damage and then the scan after that is a 60 years worth of damage.

this puts DK around Continent level by scaling and feats.

Then you somehow end up with Continental.

not impressive, as ulq hasn't shown the level of DC or speed of mel. as i shown previously before.

On the contrary being able to destroy Las Noches with a simple release is above what Mel is capable of and Lanza de Relempago dwarfs Mel’s actual feats.

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Dwarfing everything in size, destroying large structures form Dozens of miles away and causing Mountain high sand Tsunami’s that spam for 100s of miles.

Vasto Lorde Ichigo contained that blast within his palm.

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they had to above the canopy for him to release his release,

So you admit his Release would destroy Las Noches.

and he didn't vaporize it, he just reduced it to rubble. there is a clear difference between vaping and destroying

Huh?

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based on?

The fact he wouldn’t destroyed it by just going into his release state which you admitted would destroy Las Noches and the fact he easily vaped half the canopy.

it doesn't matter hows it drawn, it matters on the overall construct of said drawing.

So forget the statement the author included and the fact that if it were drawn to scale it would make no sense whatsoever becuase..?

head cannon.

Head canon is when you make something up. Those massive structures are in not able to be seen from any other point in Las Noches meaning it isn’t drawn to scale. There is nothing being made up, on my part at least.

wrong and baseless, considering the los noches building is at least city level which would put vasto lorde at least Mountain if we scale.

And this is all because you say so? Ignore the evidence the author gives us and go with what you want that so conveniently goes with your argument?

you mean where he traded most of his power for physical strength? and what you mean by "this power"? you shown ichigo being at least mountain level by that point.

Really? did you really just say that? That was Aizens first guess because he didn’t think Ichigo could reach a level of Transcendent above him which then came to realize.

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I can’t believe I had to explain that.

the ruler has shown country level converts to push damage of any kind into health and defence. nothing ichigo will do will hurt DK.

Nope and huh, defense? Regardless Ichigo’s physicals would be more than enough.

its not spite, but a rather interesting match considering ichigo is nothing more then a brick.

It is and he‘s a speedster with versatile energy projection along with incredible strength, calling him a brick is a lie. And you literally had to restrict Soul Crush because this bricks passive Soul Manipulation would instantly crush the cast of NNT.

if it was a dimensional tier higher, then dangai would be killed instantly considering if your saying butterfly is 6th dimensional.

Oh

My

God

I literally said

Butterfly Aizen achieved of level of power that is described as an entire dimensional tier above characters like Vasto Lorde Ichigo (not in the literal sense)

names are not to be used in the literal sense, as example vegetas big bang attack, which is obviously isnt as powerful as a big bang. the form of god your implying wasnt said in the panels, and such will and should be ignored.

Still haven’t said anything in the literal sense. It being stated as “the form of God“ simply means it’s leagues above the Butterfly form. That’s what I wanted to emphasize.

no...just no. at bare minimum fragor is mountain to at least muti mountain you can clearly see the "mountains" in the background, which isnt impressive whatsoever to the anger of mel that done something similar to greater if you say fragor is Multi-Contental, that'll make a weaker version of mel the same, to which is incredibly stupid and unimformed.

So we’re to ignore the scaling from all prior attacks like Lanza de Relempago and pretend as if Attack Potency doesn’t exist for Fraggor because.. you say so? If this is the case the Sighing Sage is only town-city level. That would be stupid wouldn’t it?

Butterfly Aizen alone scales to be a above Kenpachi‘s Meteor feat.

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The Sereitei has a 40 day diameter.

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The Meteor being a 3rd of its size and directly wipe it out

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Destroying it requires Large Country level power.

There‘s also the fact Bankai Yamamoto who‘s weaker than all the God-Tiers and Ichibei can destroy the entire Soul Society, a planet passively.

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pfft, forced him too? really? yhwach was toying with ichigo the entire time,

Really? Because Yhwach actually said this

(BTW Yhwach > your anti fanfiction)

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He admitted Ichigo was holding back and could in fact kill him which is reasonable because while holding back Ichigo managed to do this.

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and when he activated true bankai, yhwach broke it in a instant cause he felt like it was useless.

“Oddly” enough that’s the complete opposite of what Yhwach actually said.

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Ichigo then proved Yhwach right seeing as how his Bankai alone allowed him to fight on par with Yhwach and Aizen later.

yeah, thats what happens when the person holding it up dies. an ichigo isn't causing the collapse, the missing soul king is. lets say a support beam was the only thing holding up a bird house. if i took a sledgehammer to the beam and broke it in half, the bird house would fall and be destroyed.

Huh? I was explaining the entire scene which started with Ichigo killing the Soul King I wasn’t claiming the chain of events that happened after wards were done with his own power. That analogy is meaningless.

it wasn't instant, it was at bar minimal three seconds due to the time it had to climb up there.

What would that change regarding power? It’s wrong because it got up there in a second flat and stopped the collapse as soon as it got there but what would 3 second change regarding it’s power?

sigh, that wasn't even caused by ichigo and lmao at ichigo being stronger then the soul king. if he was as strong as the soul king, he would of been capable of saving the worlds from collapse before the mimikage had to intervene.

You’re the one sighing? It not being Ichigo is irrelevant he hadn’t even regained all of his power yet and HoS Shikai Ichigo was going to kill Soul King Yhwach who had both Mimihagi and The Soul King absorbed, he is in fact stronger than the Soul King which shouldn‘t even come as a surprise seeing as he was literally going to replace the Soul King himself if it weren’t for Yhwach replacing him.

due to yhwach being under a illusion and ichigo catching the drop on him, and yhwach having terrible durability feats compared to DK

Yhwach having bad durability feats is a lie.

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And his endurance feats suggest that he would‘ve been able to counter Ichigo easily if he was as weak as you‘re insinuating.

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So in the strength department you countered nothing whatsoever and Ichigo remains stronger than characters with Multi-Planet level feats.

Speed Counters:

Your speed section was a mess filled with multiple errors, misconceptions and even a random FTL claim out of no where but you came to the conclusion that the Demon King is just in the 4 digit mach range which I agree with so I don’t have to waste time correcting anything prior.

you are using a false scan, as gin stated to aizen, not to long after that he lied about his true nature of his bankai.

You posted a scan of Gin telling Aizen that he lied to him decades ago about a speed that for all we know was greater than mach 500. It doesn’t go as fast as I said can also mean it goes even faster than what he said decades ago.

We know he didn’t lie to Ichigo because the databook supports the statement.

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If it wasn’t true it wouldn’t have been included at all.

at a fair minim, his bankai can go around mach 20 or mach 40, no where near mach 500

This is a pretty stupid lowball seeing as how Soul Society arc Orihime can block point blank explosions and Ichigo already reached MHS speeds in the Soul Society arc.

ok? that has something to do with?

Ichigo evaded múltiple mach 1000 level attacks while not performing at his best. It’s pretty relevant.

due to his illusions.

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Aizen never in the entirety of Bleach ever put Ichigo under KS... it was literally a plot point at the end.

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Have you actually even read Bleach?

nothing you mentioned makes him a five digit mach. at the very least, hes around a 3 digit mach and thats high ball at that point.

I’m going to take this as a no.

iin three to four seconds has i shown.

Huh?

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no ones arguing against that. but the speed in which you put it at was a bit off.

?

um, in miles per second, he would be going 277.78

If this is referring to Mimihagi’s speed it’s literally impossible he’s this slow you admitted that the distance between the Soil Society and the Soul Palace was millions of miles.

If it’s referring to Ichigo’s speed down then that would still make Mimihagi around 50x Light Speed.

Still leaving HoS Shikai Ichigo, HoS Bankai Ichigo and True Bankai Ichigo leagues above that.

Durability/Endurance Counters:

The first part is already countered in the strength category.

his stamina is allso god like, as he was able to contend with Ban, Mel and pork for 60 years without break

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In the the scan posted they were literally taking a break...

The Doc Rivers Gif has been my face this throughout this entire post.

the feats you shown is at town to mountain level attacks, while DK NO SELLED a county destroying blast.

The feats aren’t that weak, the DK never no sold a country level attack and the purpose of these feats was to show that Ichigo can tank attacks above his pay grade which again isn’t necessary because the DK is weaker than him.

fodder level stamina to DK who fought for 60 years without break

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You again posted the scan of them literally taking a break.

This a new level of daft.

Powers/Hax Counters:

he is a original demon,which gives him a wide subset of powers. as a Demon, he has more than one heart. The number of hearts varies, although upper-level demons have seven hearts. The removal or destruction of a single heart does not incur death as the DK has this. even low level demons have demonic auras that can be shown off.

Won‘t help.

he has the Power of Darkness, which allsos Demons to create and manipulate a mysterious dark substance to enhance both their offensive and defensive abilities the darkness can create various weapons and to protect him from attacks that would otherwise cause serious injury. It can also be morphed into various shapes as well. but the best feature is its high speed regen,as seen where the commandment of love was able to seemly instantly regen from a cruel sun from escanor.

Won‘t help

even with this, he could soul rip and eat ichigos soul, as soul ripping is a standard power of a demon, as they can soul rip someones soul, no matter how strong they are.

You literally conceded to the fact that Ichigo has better Soul Manipulation when you restricted Soul Crush. How are you going to sit here and tell me that the Demon King is going to suck out the Soul of a Bleach God Tier?

even then, the DK can summon lightning bolts casually that can cause critical damage if hit.

Won‘t help

The Demon King's eponymous magic ability that also goes by his own name. It allows him to invert all the attacks sent at him, including Meliodas and Ban's Full Counter and Snatch abilities. All attacks and weakness are converted into healing and fortification. Even the effects of others' powers are completely reversed; per example, when Ban tried to steal Demon King's energy, he was forced to give his own to the ruler.

Won‘t help.

this alone will stop ichigo from even touching him, let alone the other commandment curses. but now to the debunks

Even if we go the whole NLF route and say that it would absorb Ichigo’s energy attacks no matter what Ichigo would still oneshot the Demon King physically.

Conclusion:

  • The Demon King still pales in comparison to Ichigo.

It’s sad that my opponent’s reading comprehension is so low that he accidentally Strawmans and his knowledge of Bleach is completely shot. Suffice it to say i’m not very interested in this anymore and need to make sure my opponents meet the qualifications when doing my next CaV.

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Adam2

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#42  Edited By Adam2

That post was..... Interesting.

I don't know if I can vote, there's so much wrong with that post I would need to write a novel in order to give my reasoning.

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LeoTheGreatest

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Wot_m8

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#44  Edited By Wot_m8

Oh... this went south fast. Regardless of how I may disagree with practically almost everything by either party, good job. It's fun to read at least.

Keep it up.

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Kalebsmarty156

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#45  Edited By Kalebsmarty156

Funny. Let's see Riku counter.

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TOPAZZZ

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#46  Edited By TOPAZZZ  Online

Ugh...

There’s a lot of wank and lowball, such as continental, FTL DK, Gin’s bankai only being double digit mach, a lot of misinterpretation of scans and more. Also town level bleach feats...yikes

Also continental fragor, with planet surface level AP. And ichigo being multi planetary or above.

There’s lots of wank and lowball from both sides

but uhm...still gl to yall i guess

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Jbreezy

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Undeckedlion395

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#49  Edited By Undeckedlion395

@topazzzI mean, at least it's interesting to read.