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#1 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

The Mad Titan Thanos repped by @cull_obsidian

vs

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Bishokukai Boss Midora repped by yours truly.

  • Random encounter on a deserted indestructible planet the size of Jupiter.
  • Both fighting seriously.
  • Current versions of both.
  • Thanos is 616 canon.
  • No BFR.
  • Win by death, KO or incap.
  • This is a CaV, so refrain from voicing your opinion before voting starts, be polite, blah blah blah, you know the deal.

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#2 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio

@cull_obsidian

Ok I made the thread. Let me know if the conditions are all right or if you want a different picture for Thanos.

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#3 Posted by FaradaySloth (9150 posts) - - Show Bio
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T4V and tag after every post pls. This gon be good.

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#4 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#5 Posted by ValorKnight (12322 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#6 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm...T4V

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#7 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio

bump for voters

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#8 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Brilliant, thanks who wants to go first?

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#9 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: images is good, and I'm happy with the conditions, I don't mind if you want to go first

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#10 Posted by vsw (2912 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#11 Posted by Kevd4wg (12695 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Online
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#12 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7997 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#14 Posted by blackpantherisb (7103 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#15 Posted by cosmic_reign (3488 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#16 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: ok man kool, tag me when it's up

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#17 Posted by Chad_Duby (5681 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: my part it but just waiting for @animelegend68's final post then it's open for votes

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#19 Posted by Chad_Duby (5681 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@chad_duby: yeah so that one is still alive and will open for votes but when the other Animelegend68 has finished their last post :)

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#21 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio
A bottomless stomach...
A bottomless stomach...

Bio

Midora is one of the three adopted sons of Acacia and Froese - the Gods of Cooking - and is one of Acacia's three Disciples; known as the three strongest men in the world.

Midora was a major antagonist over the Human World Saga of the Toriko Series, but after discovering that his adoptive father and mentor, Acacia, is evil he joined the protagonists side in order to kill Acacia and avenge the death of his adoptive mother, Froese.

Copied from Reddit :P

Before we get started

Most people know this by now, but its too important to skim over, so here's a short section on it.

The Toriko planet is wayyy bigger than regular earth, making a lot of feats orders of magnitude more impressive than what they seem at first glance. To put in perspective, one of the Toriko planet's largest continents is enough to contain the entirety of regular earth.

Here's a handy infogram for quick comparison.

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This is a fact known by most users, even people who have not read Toriko.

What is a lot less known and rarely brought up even by people who have read the manga, is the unique properties of the Toriko planet's crust.

According to Coco, the Toriko planet's crust is made of some kind of alien material, which absorbs "every kind of energy in the world" and expands continuously. This is also the source of Gourmet Cells and all taste in the world.

Here are the relevant scans.

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The first takeaway here is the fact that the Toriko planet's crust is made of a material which can absorb any kind of energy and expand, similar to vibranium in Marvel comics for instance, which naturally makes it a lot harder to do any kind of damage to the Toriko planet.

But far more interesting is the fact that this also makes the Toriko planet a lot, lot denser than a normal planet of its size. It's stated on panel that the explosion of the Toriko planet would easily dwarf a supernova. You can gauge how densely bound the planet itself has to be for this to be true.

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Hold onto this, it will be relevant in a moment.

Now without further ado, let's get to the good stuff, the feats.

Midora's busting tier

It's been stated twice, on panel by two very reliable and powerful characters (one is Joie, Acacia the big bad's right hand man, the other is Toriko himself) that Midora is strong enough to destroy the earth, the Toriko earth that is.

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1) Joie 2)Toriko

But rest assured, Midora is not just empty talk, he actually has the feats to back it up.

Here he casually one shots Acacia's Gourmet Hand, which is basically a gigantic energy construct dwarfing even the Toriko planet itself. What's even more impressive that this Gourmet Hand was about to crush the planet, making its durability Supernova lvl+.

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In other words, Midora is comfortably at least large star lvl+in dc.

Now let's see physicals.

Strength

Large planet lvl+, Midora would destroy multiple planets just as a side effect of his attacks.

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1) Midora's stump matches Acacia and causes a massive explosion.

2) A single smack from Midora sends Acacia across continents, causing explosions visible from space along the way.

3) More planet lvl striking.

But what makes these feats all the more impressive is who he is doing this to, Acacia.

This is important in light of what we know about Acacia.

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A fragment of Acacia's flesh has an amount of resistance equivalent to the rotation of a large planet, to the extent that not even Jirou himself could apply Knocking on it.

This is no mere hyperbole, because we know that Jirou can indeed stop the rotation of the Toriko planet.

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Now that was only a fragment of Acacia, and the Acacia that Midora smacks around and harms with his hits was the final fused form of Neo and Acacia, dwarfing both Neo and unmerged Acacia individually in power.

Speed

Midora has massively FTL combat and reaction speed.

First I will post Midora's most well known speed feat, the time when he counter blitzed Joie 8 times in the span of 0.01 seconds.

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To understand why this is so impressive, let me walk you step by step through what exactly happens here:

  • Midora sees Joie for the first time.
  • Midora is apparently emotionally shocked, since Joie's visage resembles that of Froese, Midora's adoptive mother who has been dead for centuries (there's a complicated backstory involved here which is not at all relevant to this debate).
  • Joie was actually counting on this distraction, and uses the opportunity to try and blitz Midora.
  • After 0.01 seconds, not only is Midora completely unharmed from Joie's own blitz, but he himself has managed to counter blitz and kill Joie 8 times in this interval (Joie survives due to life orbs, which can take damage in a person's place). Midora has done this so fast that Joie has not even perceived him attacking. This proves that Midora is on a whole different tier of speed compared to Joie.
  • Lastly, as Midora himself says, he "took his time to launch a counter attack", meaning this is probably not even his full capability.

Now, that you somewhat get the full context of the feat, let's see how fast Joie himself is:

He was able to react at close range to Dragon King Derous' extra dimensional laser, which reached a different star system in seconds, making it comfortably FTL.

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1) The laser reaches a different star system in seconds at most.

2) Joie reacts to the laser and launches an attack of his own to try and intercept it, putting Joie's pwn combat speed at FTL.

Another feat to seal the deal:

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Jumps upto space in an instant, blitzes Acacia and sends him crashing down to earth

Acacia himself is leagues above Joie (who as I have shown is FTL) and has several clear cut FTL reaction/combat feats of his own, making this a FTL-MFTL feat for Midora.

Durability

Some miscellaneous showings:

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1) Gets squashed by Acacia's planetary sized hand construct with no permanent damage.

2) Tanks multiple explosions from Joie. Considering the size of the Toriko planet, these are at least small planet sized explosions.

3) Is only lightly cut by Joie's slices which are peeling through the Toriko planet like an onion.

But Midora actually doesn't have to tank a lot, because of his hax defenses.

The reason why Midora is so dangerous is not because of his stats or dc (though even that would put him at teambuster tier), but because of his hax, which is considerable.

Let's look at it.

Hungry Attacks

This is his signature technique. Midora's tongue consumes everything in its path to the last atom, leaving behind a total vacum. It doesn't end there, this vacum then becomes a death trap, destroying anything that crosses it at the atomic level.

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Description of the ability

And Midora can also extend his tongue massively to planetary size, and make multiple tongues, making this a formidable ability indeed, in both potency and scale.

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Minority World

Midora's most potent hax, this is basically a matter cum probability manipulation technique that makes any system of atoms follow the "minority"'s behavior.

The idea here is that in any system of atoms, statistically speaking, a miniscule percentage would be behaving contrary to the overall system. For instance, a small percentage of atoms in our body can ignore gravity and levitate, but because the overwhelming majority is bound by gravity, the system as a whole obeys the laws of gravity as well.

Minority World effectively makes it so that the behavior of this tiny minority starts governing that of the system, leading to exotic outcomes.

Let's see some examples of what this means in practice.

It can make your attacks never miss, even against MFTL opponents:

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Ichiryu hits Midora with a barrage of attacks without even aiming.

Conversely, it can make your opponents' attacks miss:

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Ichiryu dodges Midora's machine gun tongue while barely moving. Minority World is also not limited to living things either,it affects the ground and changes its texture.

It interferes with your bodily processes and drives you to death (heart starts pumping blood backwards, lungs stop absorbing oxygen, etc).

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The great thing about Minority World is that it can be used defensively as well. It can be used to heal damage and Midora has actually returned from the verge of death using its power.

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It can also be turned on or off voluntarily.

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The previous scans by the way also show Midora's high resistance to matter manipulation. Previously he was struggling against Minority World but the moment he copied the technique he was able to resist Ichiryu affecting him.

Midora's own version of Minority World is even more potent than Ichiryu's, who was the original wielder of the ability.

It can be used to not just make attacks miss, but reverse them outright.

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Reflects Acacia's Gourmet Punch back at him (this is easily a MFTL large planetary attack).

And finally, it can atomize characters.

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In summary,these are the benefits Minority World provides:

  • Can be used to make your opponent's attacks miss.
  • Can be used to make your own attacks land with near 100% accuracy.
  • Environmental manipulation.
  • Reverses the body's physiological functions.
  • Can be used to heal himself and his team members.
  • Can be used to reverse attacks.
  • Atomic disintegration.

Gourmet Luck

Another very potent probability manipulation technique. Think Domino on billions of steroids.

Causes a planetary AoE attack to miss.

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Midora is able to escapes being atomically sealed in a different dimension after copying Gourmet Luck.

And even in the hands of a far less powerful and capable user, Joie, Gourmet Luck was able to revive him instantly after he was atomized by Midora's Minority World.

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As you can see, Gourmet Luck makes Midora near impossible to damage. The only drawback is it can run out, and needs to "recharge" so to speak.

Regeneration

Midora heals near instantly from lethal wounds, in fact even far far weaker Toriko characters have insane regeneration.

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1) Instantly regenerates his arm getting sliced to pieces.

2) Heals back from a carnivorous fungi which was constantly decomposing his body.

Mirror Neurons and Camouflage

Midora's Gourmet cells have two unique abilities:

Camouflage

Midora can blend perfectly with his surroundings and appear invisible for all practical purposes.

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Disappears right in front of Ichiryyu (a pretty powerful guy himself), then easily sneaks up on and one shots him.

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Destroys Acacia's planet wiping attack and appears out of nowhere right in front of him.

Honestly, not too big a game changer, just putting it out there.

The next thing though, might be really handy.

Power Mimicry

Midora's neurons are so sophisticated that he can copy most abilities and techniques and wield them to great effect (most often even better than its previous users) fairly quickly.

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Perfectly copies Ichiryyu's Minority World over the course of their fight, to the extent that its superior to Ichiryyu's own use of the ability (he can't affect Midora once he copies it).

Minority World at that time was an ability unique to Ichiryyu, one of the strongest men in the world.

But even more insane is his copying of Gourmet Luck, which is basically high level probability manipulation/reality warping.

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This is particularly impressive because Gourmet Luck is actually powered by Gourmet Energy, which was present billions of years ago at the creation of the universe and are directly descended from the creator Gods of the verse.

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In that respect, it is similar to the Power Cosmic in Marvel, an universal source of power present during the Big Bang and linked to the creator deities.

As befitting its power, it is exceedingly rare, even in the Toriko verse and has been used actively in combat by exactly one person (Joa) outside Midora himself. Speaking of Joa, that guy was stated to have vast reserves of Food Luck and could practically spam it, yet once Midora copied the ability, he beat Joa at his own game and handed him a crushing defeat.

Essentially, Midora perfectly copied an extremely broken ability which is powered by an universal and primal source of energy and beat its original wielder at their own game.

The Telepathy Issue

I honestly think telepathy is Thanos' best and arguably only chance. While I do believe that Thanos just might be able to TP Midora, I don't think it would be easy at all, because of the involuntary bloodlust that Toriko top tiers have.

Intimidation is essentially a character's blooslust that manifests in a somewhat telepathic manner.

For example, here's what Bambina, one of the 8 King's bloodlust does in a split second.

Furthermore, the killing intent of Bambina also manifests itself in a pseudo-telepathic way.

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Intimidation in Toriko is a form of telepathy which can be used to scare off weaker foes or instill in them a deep sense fear and death which leaves them helpless. Human World, which only covers 30% of the Toriko planet's surface, has a population of 32 billion, the Four Beast was a such a great threat to the human race, the government evacuated everyone. It had a capture level of only 350 and in the Gourmet World, Toriko's normal Intimidation causes capture level 500-600 Beasts to flee. However when Bambina got angry for less than a second-the 4HK's lives flashed before their eyes and they were momentarily paralyzed with fear.

(From Leo-343's Bambina RT).

Bambina's killing intent also was felt around the world and drove the entire world population into a panic, putting it at large planetary lvl.

Midora would fodderize Bambina, and in Toriko Intimidation scales with overall power, so it stands to reason that Midora's own Intimidation would be well above large planetary.

This would at least make it somewhat challenging for Thanos to just TP him, especially with all else that will be thrown at him. In fact Midora's Initimidation should be powerful enough to cause Thanos troubles on its own.

The second thing I want to point out is that Midora obviously operates at a far far higher tier of speed than anyone Thanos has ever TP'd. It's well known that very fast thought processing speed is a natural counter against telepathy (think Flash).

And lastly, Thanos rarely starts with TP in character,in fact most of his best feats in this regard are in defensive TP. There are not many instances of him proactively starting a fight with TP.

All in all, Thanos might be able to TP Midora with some effort and time if he focused on that only, but I believe that Midora's own defenses in this regard, combined with everything else that Thanos would be dealing with, should be enough to make the possibility of Thanos taking this by TP very slight indeed.

Whew, finally over. That was a lot for an opener, but it had to be done because Midora has a lot of powers and I believe you don't know much about him.

Initial Thoughts

So first of all, I think we can both agree on a few things.

  • Thanos has never fought someone whose consistent combat speed is remotely on Midora's level.
  • Nor has he ever fought someone whose casual striking is in the large planetary ballpark.
  • He hasn't ever faced anyone with the kind of hax and versatility that Midora has, and who also actually uses said hax ("cough" Surfer "cough").
  • Midora also lacks any morals and is far more brutal than most of Thanos' opponents.

So having said all that, I don't want to lay out an explicit strategy yet before your opener, but here are a few tentative advantages I believe Midora has:

  • Midora outstats Thanos. Almost laughably in speed, and probably a little in strength as well, going by consistent showings.
  • At first glance, I don't see any way for Thanos to get past Midora's defensive hax barring telepathy.
  • If the fight drags on, it gives time for the Mirror Neurons to come into play, copying Thanos' abilities.
  • If I know anything about Thanos, it's that he is almost guaranteed to start a random encounter like this by just standing around and blasting, which simply won't cut it against someone like Midora. This is a guy who is loaded with hax and actually knows how to use it. By the time Thanos realizes he can't just blast and tank his way through this, it is probably too late.

That's it for now, this is one of my favorite fights and really interested to see how you approach this.

Best of luck mate :)

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#22 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Brilliant opener, I won't be as fast as you, but hope to have it up in by the end of the week

This won't be easy but will be an enjoyable debate

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#25 Posted by FaradaySloth (9150 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio

@cull_obsidian: It's cool man, I was only fast because it's an opener and I already have most of the feats. Take your time.

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#27 Posted by LJayG (1164 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Jeez. I don't normally read Toriko so everything on there shocked the hell out of me seeing just how strong Midora is. Going to have to read it now. Nice opener.

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#28 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio

@ljayg: Thanks . Yeah you should read the series. It starts off as a fun adventure shonen but the plot becomes surprisingly intricate and deep in the later stages. It also has incredible world building to say nothing of the powers.

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#29 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Great, :), yeah I've only done one CAV so I haven't got the opener done, (I took over my last one from Apex lol so didn't even have an opener)

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#30 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15804 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#31 Edited by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: BTW I'm a bit confused as to how you came to the conclusion that Midora is large star level in output?

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#32 Posted by shirso (3994 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: BTW I'm a bit confused as to how you came to the conclusion that Midora is large star level in output?

PM'd.

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#33 Edited by Au_141 (993 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#34 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Thanks, just researching then will start when I got some free time

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#35 Posted by mega6382 (1919 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v, and tag after all posts

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#36 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by TheSerbianEmpire (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#38 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: I will take my time with this debate but it will be worth it and would like to represent Thanos the best that he can be but it will get finished

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#39 Posted by Rac95 (4490 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after each post please

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#40 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Rac95 (4490 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by laughingbatman (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please

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#43 Posted by Gaoron (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#44 Posted by FromBeyond (1044 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V if you dont mind

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#45 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by FromBeyond (1044 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: just lost my post on onenote, will redo it and have it up soon

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#48 Edited by deactivated-5c15c5c049c51 (378 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Cull_Obsidian (3857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by cdiddyman911 (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please