CaV: Thanos(CIB) vs Gorr(Kev)

The Mad Titan

The God Butcher

Rules

• Win by Death/KO/Incap
• Morals On(Not that it really matters)
• Standard Gear
• No BFR
• Thanos cannot use Telepathy

Battlefield

@destinyishere look good? And do you want me to go first?

@kevd4wg: Yeah and yeah

TAEP and T4V

TAEP.

Tag for every post pls

Glad to see you're not dead Kev.

T4V and TAEP.

TAEP

TAEP please.

You've already done this smh

TAEP

@takenstew22: @amcu: Thanks guys

With as many CaVs as you do with Hal you've had to redo one at least once

The God Butcher

An Introduction to Gorr

Bio

Powers and Abilities

The Necrosword

I'm not going to break this down into usual structures since I really don't think it's necessary. Gorr doesn't fight like that and while Thanos does, it won't be too relevant to the fight. So to start off explaining Gorr's power, Gorr basically has a set amount of power in his necrosword that he can turn into shields, armor, summons, weapons, etc. At the end of his story in Thor: God of Thunder #9 we can see that the full amount of his power is at the very least star level and in reality quite a bit more as even without a host(at it's weakest), it was capable of overpowering a black hole(Thor: God of Thunder #22)

During this process he also takes out Young Thor, Worthy Thor, and most importantly Old King Thor. Now, it's vague as to how much power Old King Thor has at this point since it's been a hot minute since he's used the OF and I don't think you can really base his performance against Gorr off his fight with Galactus, but it is worth mentioning that earlier he sent Gorr flying light years in seconds, which is more then I think Thanos can do.

Killing Thanos

Quite simply, Gorr has one method of killing Thanos, with the Necrosword. However, Gorr has many ways he can go about doing this. To start, I'll establish just how easily Gorr can cut through Thanos. Even at his absolute weakest in Thor: God of Thunder #2(To the point to where the necrosword didn't even completely cover his body), Gorr could casually cut completely through Thor with no resistance. Now there is an argument to make that Thor alone has comparable piercing resistance to Thanos if we want to seperate piercing entirely, but the glaive feat is probably a bit beyond that. However Thanos is a durable beast so I want to give him a bit of credit just based on his status, but even small parts of the necrosword were shown capable of nailing OKT in Thor: God of Thunder #10, who by implication is around the same level as Thanos or above.

It's not like Gorr will prance around messing with Thanos either, he only does that with Thor. On other immortals(of which Thanos is one), he's been shown to just decapitate them, like in Thor: God of Thunder #2. That'll get rid of Thanos pretty quickly. This doesn't mean that small cuts don't mean anything either as Gorr can infest Thanos with little Maggots eating away at his body as he did with Thor in Thor: God of Thunder #9. So even if he doesn't just kill Thanos at first, Gorr can wear him down with smaller cuts and later just take his head off.

But Gorr doesn't just posses the stabbing, no. Gorr can create an army of summons to support him as well and wear down Thanos. Gorr can easily create these summons(Thor: God of Thunder #9) and enough of them can swarm and overpower incredibly powerful characters such as Old King Thor as seen in Thor: God of Thunder #1 and 3(1, 2), also notice how even the summons can easily stab Old King Thor, much less more concentrated power of the Necrosword. Some of these Summons have even given OKT trouble alone and created wormholes, but I'll get to that later if need be.

Not Dying

Along with killing Thanos, Gorr obviously also has to not die while fighting him, which will be no problem at all. Firstly, Gorr's base durability is absolutely insane. In terms of blunt-force, in Thor: God of Thunder #9 Gorr basically shrugged off Thor's blows that were shattering the planet below them with shockwaves and making cracks in a moon likely hundreds of thousands of miles away as well. Thanos is stronger then Thor for sure, but that was Thor going all out constantly and Gorr seemingly didn't even feel it. That's insane and something Thanos is going to be hard pressed to get around. Of course, Thanos's energy projection is arguably better then his strength, but there Thanos is faced with even more insurmountable durability. In the same issue, Gorr was blasted light years in seconds into a moon and yet in a page shrugged it off(1,2). Then Gorr gets a little permanant amp and literally no-sells the same blast. In all honesty, I don't think Thanos can even replicate OKT's feat, much less surpass it enough to put Gorr down. And even if Thanos somehow does manage to affect Gorr, Gorr can just heal it off like he did to his arm, as seen in Thor: God of Thunder #5.

Gorr can also manipulate the necrosword to keep Thanos away from him or just keep Thanos where he wants him to be. He does this to Thor with just a thin line in Thor: God of Thunder #2 and in Thor: God of Thunder #7, he ragdolls Thor with much more. Even if he can't ragdoll Thanos the same way, he can certainly affect him with it.

Initial Consideration

I don't think speed or anything like that will really be a problem in this battle and as a result, the insane difficulty Thanos will have in killing Gorr compared with the relative ease that Gorr would have in killing Thanos make this battle pretty clear and straightforward to me.

@hellespont: @battle123axe: @amcu: @darthvaderrocks: @takenstew22: @diarrhearegatta: @soratoumiga: @laskt: @destinyishere: It's up

Very good opener. Even though I read this run it seems I forgot how powerful Gorr really was.

Nice opener. I really need to read the God Butcher storyline some day.

T4V. Nice opener.

I won't bother with character introductions. Everyone knows who Thanos is. Extremely intelligent Mad Titan with incredible strength, absurd durability and damage soak, ridiculous energy projection, forcefields and even some hax (telepathy, matter manipulation, immortality). Though as far as this matchup goes, we agreed to ban telepathy since that's an ability Gorr has no answers for, and so I believe it's a pretty straightforward debate. Saying that, I'm going to head for rebuttals right away.

Necrosword's raw power

At the end of his story in Thor: God of Thunder #9 we can see that the full amount of his power is at the very least star level and in reality quite a bit more as even without a host(at it's weakest), it was capable of overpowering a black hole(Thor: God of Thunder #22)

I question if that showing is fully star-level. It took Gorr an unspecified amount of time (albeit, not THAT long) to defeat the Thor team and in any case he didn't seem to fully absorb the Sun if we look at the whole panel. Similarly, we have no idea how much time the Necrosword took to absorb the Black hole into itself, and I doubt it's raw power relates to Gorr being on that level physically. Now, I know you're just establishing the Necrosword's power level in general and it's not that relevant to this fight so don't take this as nitpicking - I just think it's important to cover all bases in case you try to use this for whatever reason later on.

Though it's worth noting that even in classic days Thanos was destroying planets with his fights and ragdolling the Avengers with the greatest of ease, which is well before his amp at the hands of Mistress Death and later on the God Quarry, so you're facing WAY more powerful Thanos here. Any showings he performed against the Avengers in classic days, fights with Drax and Pre-2017 feats are surpassed by Current Thanos.

Dealing with the Necrosword's cutting output and summons

Quite simply, Gorr has one method of killing Thanos, with the Necrosword. However, Gorr has many ways he can go about doing this. To start, I'll establish just how easily Gorr can cut through Thanos. Even at his absolute weakest in Thor: God of Thunder #2(To the point to where the necrosword didn't even completely cover his body), Gorr could casually cut completely through Thor with no resistance. Now there is an argument to make that Thor alone has comparable piercing resistance to Thanos if we want to seperate piercing entirely, but the glaive feat is probably a bit beyond that. However Thanos is a durable beast so I want to give him a bit of credit just based on his status, but even small parts of the necrosword were shown capable of nailing OKT in Thor: God of Thunder #10, who by implication is around the same level as Thanos or above.

I haven't seen anything from Thor to give him comparable piercing resistance (though we both agree there's not much of any difference in split durability and standard durability to begin with) to Thanos. I've read alot of his titles from Jurgens' run till now and my impression has been it's not that hard to shred him, he just has absurd damage soak that allows him to fight through beatdowns and huge stabs just fine. However, we actually have direct comparisons between them, like how Logan slashed Thor multiple times in Wolverine vs Thor #2.

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All of the slashes were gushing blood without any trouble. Meanwhile, in Infinity Gauntlet #4 Thanos withstood Logan jumping him with direct stabs. The reason I think this makes Thanos look much better is because Logan drew blood from Thor with quick slashes whereas Thanos tanked Logan giving it his all in 2 direct stabs that had extra momentum yet he was barely even pierced and had no signs of any damage whatsoever. Before you try to imply Thanos was amped on the Power Gem, I'm going to stop you from thinking so flawed as it was made quite clear exactly when he used it during the fight like how he grew against Hulk and his stats seemed the same throughout the encounter as always (blows from Thor and the likes were affecting him - he wasn't hugely physically amped).

Gallery

Though either way, Thanos has actual feats of piercing resistance. Take for example when he easily no sold blade strike from Corvus Glaive without so much as any papercut, in Thanos Vol.2 #1. His spear literally cuts atoms, and not only was Thanos completely unaffected, but this was in his weakened state when he was dying and well before his God Quarry amp, so he should be way more durable in this matchup. I haven't seen anything from Gorr putting him on atom cutting level, let alone significantly surpassing it.

As for Old King Thor, the only showing he has is sending Gorr light years with Thorforce blasts. Whilst that is indeed impressive, it doesn't necessarily implicate his power level in general nor does it relate to physicals to begin with. Regardless, if you want to use the intention and implication argument, I can have all sorts of fun. For example during Thanos Imperative, Magus instantaneously oneshotted 10 planets with the greatest of ease, then Lord Mar-Vell came and killed him with one blast, yet in the Thanos Imperative #5 Thanos ragdolled Mar-Vell physically and smacked the shit out of him.....

It's actually seriously impressive for the Mad Titan but the point is I can attempt to use implication and put Thanos' power level and energy projection at crazy levels. Hell, I can do even better than that:

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• He's shown fighting alongside Galactus and Odin against abstract beings in Clyde Wyncham Jr. and the Marquis of Death' dimensional war - Fantastic Four #569
• Combined energy beams from Thanos and Norrin overpowered Odin's in energy projection clash in this flashback, and it's worth noting that Silver Surfer was literally oneshotted in the original battle so I doubt he contributed much - Cates' Thanos #14

All this to say I can put Thanos at high levels beyond his capabilities through implication. So in the end, I really don't see how Gorr is supposed to cut Thanos, let alone literally decapitate him. At the very least, you must prove Gorr can cut well beyond atomic level and substantiate OKT's power level alot more. This negates Gorr's only meaningful form of damage output and renders him unable to damage Thanos.

It's not like Gorr will prance around messing with Thanos either, he only does that with Thor. On other immortals(of which Thanos is one), he's been shown to just decapitate them, like in Thor: God of Thunder #2. That'll get rid of Thanos pretty quickly. This doesn't mean that small cuts don't mean anything either as Gorr can infest Thanos with little Maggots eating away at his body as he did with Thor in Thor: God of Thunder #9. So even if he doesn't just kill Thanos at first, Gorr can wear him down with smaller cuts and later just take his head off.

Thanos could just unleash massive energy blasts from himself all over to kill the Maggots. He showed this ability in Infinity #6, when he was ragdolling the Avengers (Thor, Hyperion, Carol Danvers) and was seemingly about to end the fight right there and then before Thane interfered and contained him. Since those Maggots are fairly small and so lacking in durability, there's no reason why Thanos can't just casually incinerate them. And again, I don't believe Gorr can really cut Thanos to begin with.

But Gorr doesn't just posses the stabbing, no. Gorr can create an army of summons to support him as well and wear down Thanos. Gorr can easily create these summons(Thor: God of Thunder #9) and enough of them can swarm and overpower incredibly powerful characters such as Old King Thor as seen in Thor: God of Thunder #1 and 3(1, 2), also notice how even the summons can easily stab Old King Thor, much less more concentrated power of the Necrosword. Some of these Summons have even given OKT trouble alone and created wormholes, but I'll get to that later if need be.

Old King Thor was weakened from fighting for 900 years straight and we don't know how powerful he is to begin with. We only ever saw his power level when he met with Thor from the past and felt the rumblings of the Thorforce inside him again, so it's unclear how impressive swarming him is prior to that. Though I doubt Gorr will create that many summons to begin with....As for the Black Berserkers, Thanos should have no issue obliterating them with his energy projection attacks like above, similar to how Thor was repeatedly oneshotting them with lightning-amped Mjolnir strikes, and Thanos is way more powerful than he is. Fodder is fodder so you better get out those Leviathan summons quickly.

Physicals and energy projection

Along with killing Thanos, Gorr obviously also has to not die while fighting him, which will be no problem at all. Firstly, Gorr's base durability is absolutely insane. In terms of blunt-force, in Thor: God of Thunder #9 Gorr basically shrugged off Thor's blows that were shattering the planet below them with shockwaves and making cracks in a moon likely hundreds of thousands of miles away as well. Thanos is stronger then Thor for sure, but that was Thor going all out constantly and Gorr seemingly didn't even feel it. That's insane and something Thanos is going to be hard pressed to get around.

Gorr clearly felt those, he didn't outright nosell them - we see him getting staggered and having facial expressions of pain after every blow. Now, I'm going to give him credit for shrugging off Thor's best hits with no damage but to be honest Thanos already performed way more impressive feat in Iron-Man Vol.1 #55 when he blocked Classic Drax's charge that blew the planet apart with it's shockwaves, while holding his other arm at bay, then not only no sold the attack but the subsequent planetary explosion. This was literally in his first appearance in comic publication and so FAR before his amps.

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From my perspective, this seems superior to Gorr's showing for multiple reasons:

1. Thor merely shredded the surface of the planet as far as we see, whereas here it's actually blown apart
2. Thanos actually proved physical superiority to Drax when he casually blocked his attack, held his other arm and tanked the planetary explosion that weakened him
3. This was Thanos before he attained all his amplifications throughout the years and became way more powerful

Saying that, why would Thanos struggle in beating the shit out of Gorr? This is much better than Thor's blows and in this battle Thanos is going to punch wayy harder. Not only that, but I linked Thanos physically dominating Lord Mar-Vell, who stomped the Annihilators and KOed Nova Prime (Richard Rider) after effortlessly shattering his shields, which even have herald level feats. Thanos has actually displayed massive physical superiority to Thor though, such as in Infinity #6 when he no sold his lightning bolts whilst asking for more, tanked lightning-charged Mjolnir strike with extra momentum from the sky, caught another lightning amped hammer strike then floored him with exactly one hit....

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I have many other comparisons I could show as you well know like stomping Beta Ray Bill without even really trying, stalemating Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor in physical contests, twoshotting Thor after tanking hammer blows back in Marvel Two-In-One Annual #2 and tanking blasts that blew him to bits but the point is clear here. Now, in this instance Thor was going all out and whilst he might have hit harder in your context the fact that the Maggots were eating him out would have contributed to why his arms were getting messed up - Either way, the physical gap is apparent between the two. There's no contest here. To be honest, if Thanos gets his hands on Gorr he's going to get absolutely mauled and he can't do shit about it...

Of course, Thanos's energy projection is arguably better then his strength, but there Thanos is faced with even more insurmountable durability. In the same issue, Gorr was blasted light years in seconds into a moon and yet in a page shrugged it off(1,2). Then Gorr gets a little permanant amp and literally no-sells the same blast. In all honesty, I don't think Thanos can even replicate OKT's feat, much less surpass it enough to put Gorr down. And even if Thanos somehow does manage to affect Gorr, Gorr can just heal it off like he did to his arm, as seen in Thor: God of Thunder #5.

It's really impressive that he outright no-sold the blast but attacks that send people light years aren't beyond herald level to be honest. Several herald tier characters have had similar showings and whilst Gorr was likely sent further these should at least be comparable and serve to illustrate my point given the gap between Thanos and heralds...

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• Firelord is only stunned when blasted across the solar system by the full might of the Nova Force - New Warriors #42
• Silver Surfer tosses the spaceship outside of the solar system and it's narrated that the ship would keep going for centuries - Defenders Vol.4 #3
• Immortal Hulk tanks an energy amped punch from the Challenger that sent him around the solar system near it's star - Avengers #688

FYI, solar systems stretch around 2 light years and Thanos treats these guys like his punching bags on fairly regular basis and there are multiple showings where he messes them up, Silver Surfer in particular Thanos has displayed quite the large power gap around 4 times now. I just don't think it's THAT impressive and so Thanos' blasts should be able to stun Gorr and mess him up with his larger ones. I'm going to try and keep this light for an opener and cite when Thanos juiced up Adam Warlock when he was hugely weakened in Thanos: The Infinity Revelation....

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We see Adam later using this energy to overload Quasar's energy system and even oneshotted the Silver Surfer whilst holding back. Remember, this is merely the result of 2 simple energy beams, if Thanos opts for his massive energy bursts for sustained period of multiple seconds as he did when he literally incinerated Cancerverse Hulk in the Thanos Imperative #2 it's going to hurt ALOT more. What's context to note is he was weakened due to the nature of the Cancerverse and that he didn't just KO Hulk, but reduced him to bare skeleton, which is actually quite impressive as even Pre-Core Breach has had multiple planetary showings.

The regeneration argument is grasping on straws. We have no idea how much time it took him to fully regrow it as that's literally Gorr from hundreds of years past when Thor cut his arm off, and in any case Thanos isn't going to cut his arms off here, he's going to deliver incredible blunt force backed up with absurd energy projection for the knockout and incapacitation.

Gorr can also manipulate the necrosword to keep Thanos away from him or just keep Thanos where he wants him to be. He does this to Thor with just a thin line in Thor: God of Thunder #2 and in Thor: God of Thunder #7, he ragdolls Thor with much more. Even if he can't ragdoll Thanos the same way, he can certainly affect him with it.

Yeah, I don't see where this is going. How is he affecting Thanos with it if he's unable to move him away? He's way stronger than Thor, physically dominated Lord Mar-Vell and in his first incarnation displayed planet busting physicals so I really don't see constructs which best feat is ragdolling Thor being enough to do anything here.

Summary

Like Kev said, I think this battle is pretty straightforward. Gorr lacks the means to damage Thanos at all whereas Thanos could honestly beat the shit out of him and use massive energy bursts to incinerate his Summons and Maggot constructs if he attempts to make use of them.

Nice

Good job. This is gonna be fun.

Round 2

I want to start by saying that I think you made some mistakes in your post with Thanos, especially with your scaling and with some context. But don't worry, I'll address that when I get to it in counters. So to start off

The Necrosword's Raw Power

I question if that showing is fully star-level. It took Gorr an unspecified amount of time (albeit, not THAT long) to defeat the Thor team and in any case he didn't seem to fully absorb the Sun if we look at the whole panel.

This counter is a little silly in my opinion. The Thor battle is just a fun thing to notice, not really important and as for covering the entire Sun, the panel clearly says "and saw the sun turn black" and in the panel, the necrosword is obviously still spreading as well. The only logical conclusion to draw from that, is that like the battle it continued to happen and he covered the entire sun.

Similarly, we have no idea how much time the Necrosword took to absorb the Black hole into itself,

It didn't absorb the blackhole, it overpowered it, that's an important distinction. And black holes aren't going to get whitled down like a piece of wood, even if it took months(Which I think it's pretty clear in universe that it didn't), it still possessed the power to overpower it. Overpowering it quickly would make the feat more impressive, but taking time doesn't make it less impressive if that makes sense.

and I doubt it's raw power relates to Gorr being on that level physically.

Of course it does. Gorr's physicals are literally just the necrosword more or less being part of him him. The only difference between the Necrosword without a host and with a host is a body, that just means on Gorr it's more focused.

Now, I know you're just establishing the Necrosword's power level in general and it's not that relevant to this fight so don't take this as nitpicking - I just think it's important to cover all bases in case you try to use this for whatever reason later on.

The reason I spent time on this, is that it actually is extremely important to this debate and I think you missed the point I was making in my first post. Gorr can take the amount of power in the Necrosword and shape it into whatever he wants, swords, summons, his armor/physicals etc and the blackhole level power that the necrosword has on Gorr is simply out of Thanos's league.

Though it's worth noting that even in classic days Thanos was destroying planets with his fights and ragdolling the Avengers with the greatest of ease, which is well before his amp at the hands of Mistress Death and later on the God Quarry, so you're facing WAY more powerful Thanos here. Any showings he performed against the Avengers in classic days, fights with Drax and Pre-2017 feats are surpassed by Current Thanos.

Technically he wasn't destroying planets, he destroyed 1 and has only destroyed 1 since. Why does this matter? Well if the power of a necrosword can overpower a blackhole, it's on a completely different level from Thanos. Only truly massive suns can become black holes, suns 20x more massive then ours have a chance of becoming black holes and our own sun is 330,000 times more massive then Earth and those planets Thanos blew up like them. With some quick math, we can determine that the smallest black holes would be 6,600,000 times more massive then Earth. Think about that. Thanos would literally be millions of times outgunned by his best quantifiable feat. Even if we take the saying that Thanos is 10x more powerful after being brought back by death(which I am quite doubtful of and we have no idea how the God Quarry has effected him really), he would still be dwarfed in power by Gorr. So in this battle, chilling around him, Gorr has the necrosword, with the power of a blackhole, that using his mind he can morph into anything he wants.

Slicing and Dicing

Starting off, your comparison with Wolverine just astounds me, like seriously. I cannot understand how you thought Thanos did better in this situation. Like look what a freeshot from Wolverine on Thor did to him in issue #1 of that series, it more or less left a scratch. And later Thor flat out stated that his asgardian skin was giving Wolverine trouble and that he couldn't do significant damage. And yet somehow this is worse than this

What? How? I wasn't going to bring up these instances because I think they're kinda dumb, but you are arguing that Wolverine going almost all the way into Thanos is better then him struggling to cut Thor. I just cannot understand that. By this example Gorr should be cutting Thanos apart by bumping into him with his armor.

Take for example when he easily no sold blade strike from Corvus Glaive without so much as any papercut, in Thanos Vol.2 #1. His spear literally cuts atoms, and not only was Thanos completely unaffected, but this was in his weakened state when he was dying and well before his God Quarry amp, so he should be way more durable in this matchup. I haven't seen anything from Gorr putting him on atom cutting level, let alone significantly surpassing it.

For one Thanos blocked it with his armor, but whatever. Anyway, there's two very different ways to go about cutting someone, sharpness and force. A sharp sword will cut you due to it's edge, but for example a bullet is a large amount of force concentrated in a small area that goes through you. Think of the Necrosword as a mobile bullet. With the overall blackhole level power, Gorr can easily devote 1/20 of the Necrosword's power, which if you recall is about the amount of power in a star and just cut off Thanos's head. Thanos has never tanked that much damage from say an explosion, much less concentrated into an edge. So it doesn't matter how sharp an atom Thanos has resisted if he can't resist the force behind it. And it's not like the Necrosword is gonna shatter on Thanos either.

Intention?

As for Old King Thor, the only showing he has is sending Gorr light years with Thorforce blasts. Whilst that is indeed impressive, it doesn't necessarily implicate his power level

Um, yes it does. At the very least we know he's vastly more powerful then Thor from that, which from your argument with Wolverine, should mean OKT is leagues ahead of Thanos in terms of piercing resistance.

Regardless, if you want to use the intention and implication argument, I can have all sorts of fun. For example during Thanos Imperative, Magus instantaneously oneshotted 10 planets with the greatest of ease, then Lord Mar-Vell came and killed him with one blast, yet in the Thanos Imperative #5 Thanos ragdolled Mar-Vell physically and smacked the shit out of him.....

Let's address this one by one. Firstly, Thor, even OF Thor, has always been at least equally about energy as physicals so it's not unreasonable to draw a comparison. However, for example, Captain Mar-Vell was always far better with energy manipulation and blasts then physicals and if anything Lord Mar-Vell would have a larger discrepancy due to his greater power level. And as much as it pains me to debunk Warlock Wank, you mention Magus one-shotting 10 planets(it was 18), but he was amped by trillions of believers from the church shouting out for ignition. With just millions of believers in Guardians of the Galaxy vol 3 #17, Adam Warlock was able to repair a multiple solar system sized hole in space so with trillions of believers it shouldn't be difficult to blow up 18 planets. So yeah, that's no way to scale Magus.

He's shown fighting alongside Galactus and Odin against abstract beings in Clyde Wyncham Jr. and the Marquis of Death' dimensional war - Fantastic Four #569

And Thanos is shown smaller then Odin, Odin smaller then Galactus, almost ranked by their power. Because, Starlin made his Thanos vs Galactus intention pretty damn clear in terms of power levels in the first Thanos volume. Marquis also said his gods were insects in some dimensions and shows Ego and Mephisto. Not really great look for Thanos there to be an insect compared to Ego and Mephisto.

Combined energy beams from Thanos and Norrin overpowered Odin's in energy projection clash in this flashback, and it's worth noting that Silver Surfer was literally oneshotted in the original battle so I doubt he contributed much - Cates' Thanos #14

Come on dude, this was part of a collage showing general events. Are you going to argue that She-Hulk can fly because she was shown chilling above Thanos's platform in space and heading toward him. These aren't meant to mean anything and matching blasts never happened in his actual canon fight with Odin.

If you want to go fully with intention, I'm game because in Thor: God of Thunder #5, Gorr killed an Elder God off panel, you know, the thing that made the universe.

Summons

Thanos could just unleash massive energy blasts from himself all over to kill the Maggots. He showed this ability in Infinity #6,

And crucially never before or again. In fact, iirc, this is the only time in his entire career that Thanos has used an AoE blast. One panel, in one comic from his what, 300+ appearances? Doesn't seem too likely that he'll use it here.

when he was ragdolling the Avengers (Thor, Hyperion, Carol Danvers

Also important this AoE did not kill Carol, legit a mid tier. Hell, Thor didn't even seem that bothered by it.

Old King Thor was weakened from fighting for 900 years straight

He did a lot more sitting on his chair resting then you're giving him credit for.

.As for the Black Berserkers, Thanos should have no issue obliterating them with his energy projection attacks like above, similar to how Thor was repeatedly oneshotting them with lightning-amped Mjolnir strikes, and Thanos is way more powerful than he is. Fodder is fodder so you better get out those Leviathan summons quickly.

But sometimes, fodder is not just fodder. As I've mentioned, Gorr can put different amounts of power into different shapes and figures, he's done this with summons too like with the serpent. This explains why the first black beserker Gorr created took hours for Thor to finish,(Thor: God of Thunder #2) while later ones were one-shot. Even 5 Thor level summons is going to start giving Thanos some issues. But since you were so kind to mention the Leviathan, I'll gladly bring it out. In Thor: God of Thunder #9, Gorr summons a big serpent that eats up OKT and takes him quite a bit of time to beat it(note the at last implying quite a bit of effort).

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If somehow Thanos ever starts to pressure Gorr, Gorr can have him swallowed up and as soon as Thanos gets out, Gorr will be there waiting with a sword to chop his head off.

Thanos attempting to put down Gorr

Gorr clearly felt those, he didn't outright nosell them - we see him getting staggered and having facial expressions of pain after every blow.

And that in no way means he was actually taking damage. Feeling pain and staggering does not equate to him going down any time soon.

Now, I'm going to give him credit for shrugging off Thor's best hits with no damage but to be honest Thanos already performed way more impressive feat in Iron-Man Vol.1 #55 when he blocked Classic Drax's charge that blew the planet apart with it's shockwaves, while holding his other arm at bay, then not only no sold the attack but the subsequent planetary explosion. This was literally in his first appearance in comic publication and so FAR before his amps.

It obviously wasn't just the bullrush that blew up the planet, they had a whole fight, which can clearly be seen in the bottom panel. And anyway why does tanking a planet blowing up matter, Gorr isn't going to punch him or blast him.

Saying that, why would Thanos struggle in beating the shit out of Gorr?

Overpowering a black hole, is laughably, hilariously above any feat Thanos has shown of physicals. With that level of power chilling around his body, Thanos is going to get torn apart. Remember how Gorr sent Thor ragdolling around. Imagine he put 1/20 of the Necrosword's power into that(Star level), now Thanos is getting thrown around and ragdolled by just part of Gorr's power.

Not only that, but I linked Thanos physically dominating Lord Mar-Vell, who stomped the Annihilators and KOed Nova Prime (Richard Rider) after effortlessly shattering his shields, which even have herald level feats.

Come on dude. Rich has a few energy feats involving energy where he was really concentrating and not fighting that are in no way applicable to a fight with Mar-Vell. I would hope that taking out a low high tier who focuses on energy wouldn't put someone on Thanos's level.

Thanos has actually displayed massive physical superiority to Thor though, such as in Infinity #6 when he no sold his lightning bolts whilst asking for more, tanked lightning-charged Mjolnir strike with extra momentum from the sky, caught another lightning amped hammer strike then floored him with exactly one hit....

Sure Thanos is more powerful and especially more durable then Thor, but what about this is supposed to convince me he can dominate Gorr. It's not like Thor was doing well against Thor, do keep in mind he beat all 3 at once with no signs of damage.

I have many other comparisons I could show as you well know like stomping Beta Ray Bill without even really trying,

Which took what, 6 hits for the KO? I mean why should this impress me, when Gorr was humiliating Thor the entire arc.

, stalemating Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor in physical contests, twoshotting Thor after tanking hammer blows back in Marvel Two-In-One Annual #2 and tanking blasts that blew him to bits but the point is clear here. Now, in this instance Thor was going all out and whilst he might have hit harder in your context the fact that the Maggots were eating him out would have contributed to why his arms were getting messed up - Either way, the physical gap is apparent between the two. There's no contest here. To be honest, if Thanos gets his hands on Gorr he's going to get absolutely mauled and he can't do shit about it...

These almost all focus on durability or energy projection, so I'm confused how you drew the conclusion that these allow Thanos to physically maul Gorr.

Gorr's durability

Firelord is only stunned when blasted across the solar system by the full might of the Nova Force - New Warriors #42

I would like to point out that for example, the farthest distance Pluto can be from the Sun is just 6 light hours so Pluto(the farthest well known orbital body) at farthest from the other side is 12 light hours. Writers aren't scientists, so do you think every writer knows solar systems would include a distance hundreds of times farther, or just from one side of Pluto's orbit to the other. Meanwhile, light years is a lot more clear as to how far Aaron intended. This is by far your best/most clear example though, but if it's so common a herald level feat, I'd like to see more examples.

Silver Surfer tosses the spaceship outside of the solar system and it's narrated that the ship would keep going for centuries - Defenders Vol.4 #3

The panel makes 0 mention of throwing the ship outside of the solar system.

Immortal Hulk tanks an energy amped punch from the Challenger that sent him around the solar system near it's star - Avengers #688

What? You can see the Challenger/Grandmaster's ship pretty close in the background. He didn't even get sent to another planet, that's like 10 light seconds. Gorr got sent like literally millions or billions of times that distance.

I'm going to try and keep this light for an opener and cite when Thanos juiced up Adam Warlock when he was hugely weakened in Thanos: The Infinity Revelation

Thanos then hooks him up to a machine to get a stable amount of energy from his ship and a lot more energy in general, so no this example is not applicable to Thanos's power. But yes, Thanos is way above Surfer, that doesn't mean anything toward Gorr however.

if Thanos opts for his massive energy bursts for sustained period of multiple seconds as he did when he literally incinerated Cancerverse Hulk in the Thanos Imperative #2 it's going to hurt ALOT more. What's context to note is he was weakened due to the nature of the Cancerverse and that he didn't just KO Hulk, but reduced him to bare skeleton, which is actually quite impressive as even Pre-Core Breach has had multiple planetary showings.

Even if we assume this is planet busting(Which I think is some questionable scaling, it's not like Hulk resists planet busting in every comic he shows up in), I still don't understand how planet busting is better then being blasted light years away in seconds and then crashing and taking that damage too.

The regeneration argument is grasping on straws. We have no idea how much time it took him to fully regrow it as that's literally Gorr from hundreds of years past when Thor cut his arm off, and in any case Thanos isn't going to cut his arms off here, he's going to deliver incredible blunt force backed up with absurd energy projection for the knockout and incapacitation.

Gorr didn't regrow it, he just replaced it with the necrosword, that's something he can easily do in the middle of battle.

Conclusion

Honestly, I think Thanos is way out of his league here. Gorr's packing the power of a black hole and that's way, way more then anything Thanos has ever come out on top of. Gorr can throw Thanos around with just part of this power, he can overwhelm him with summons with just part of his power, and he can chop off his head, with just part of his power.

Nice post!

Nice but didn't Thanos destroy a planet when he bullrushed Thane?

TAEP

Nice work here guys.

"this is the only time in his entire career that Thanos has used an AoE blast." False, in fact he's done it multiple times. As for the black hole argument, Thanos has actually tanked a black hole once. But this isn't my debate, so I'll let Destiny handle this.

Sorry for my tiny rant. Either way, good post again.

@takenstew22: This is a CaV, you should let the debaters bring up those points man.

I know, I was just clearing some things up.

T4V

Yeah I said he destroyed one later(which was in reference to that).

Can you show me these other examples?

It wasn't an actual black hole, it was artificial.

@kevd4wg: Oh missed that. My bad

You mean the AOE attacks? Sure thing.

Gallery

He also did an AOE-type attack against one of Mistress Death's guards, but I can't find the scan.

@takenstew22: Ill address those if CIB brings them up

Kevd's sillyass nitpicking

So just to start off, I want to talk about certain nitpicks you seem to be employing throughout the debate that are just countering for it's own sake, bringing up points irrelevant to my statements, or borderline strawmanning on arguments I didn't even make. It's actually seriously frustrating when going through your posts, especially as I hate quoting half of the dozen points and giving quick statements that end up resulting in going in circles in the debate. There's just no reason to be unnecessarily skeptical on things you can be perfectly reasonable about. So I've decided to make an entire section specifically to deal with all of that....

The Strawmans

Sure Thanos is more powerful and especially more durable then Thor, but what about this is supposed to convince me he can dominate Gorr. It's not like Thor was doing well against Thor, do keep in mind he beat all 3 at once with no signs of damage.

And that in no way means he was actually taking damage. Feeling pain and staggering does not equate to him going down any time soon.

Come on dude. Rich has a few energy feats involving energy where he was really concentrating and not fighting that are in no way applicable to a fight with Mar-Vell. I would hope that taking out a low high tier who focuses on energy wouldn't put someone on Thanos's level.

• Because your best blunt force durability feat is tanking Thor's best hits? Because if Thanos is absurdly more powerful based on showings and smacked him down on top of actually catching lightning-amped Mjolnir strikes when Thor was giving it his all it means Thor doesn't compare in striking power? Because the fact he managed to stalemate Warrior's Madness PG Thor in physical contests, and he's massively amped version of Thor? C'mon man, what did you think I was implying?
• No shit sherlock. That's literally exactly what I stated. You said in your first post that Gorr flat out no sold those strikes without even feeling them and so I responded that he didn't take damage but definitely felt them. What are you going after here?
• Rich's shields have multiple absurd feats (like simply withstanding Galactus' discharge that was shredding planets before reaching other star systems) and when he attacked Lord Mar-Vell, Worldmine said the shields were at full power on account of Mar-Vell being ludicrously powerful. Effortlessly breaking his gravimetric shields with 1 blow is quite good. Though Mar-Vell in general was seemingly well above people like Magus and the Annihilators...

The Quick Nitpicks

For one Thanos blocked it with his armor, but whatever.

Also important this AoE did not kill Carol, legit a mid tier. Hell, Thor didn't even seem that bothered by it.

Which took what, 6 hits for the KO? I mean why should this impress me, when Gorr was humiliating Thor the entire arc.

These almost all focus on durability or energy projection, so I'm confused how you drew the conclusion that these allow Thanos to physically maul Gorr.

• If it's whatever, why do you have to make that comment? Either way, I doubt that is the almighty reason he no sold attacks that cut atoms and tore through Indestructible Hulk, especially seeing as he's easily tanked attacks that blew apart his armor.
• Aquaman survived AoE attacks from Darkseid that oneshotted the Justice League even tho he's not nearly as powerful as Clark. Iron man survived large energy discharges from Ultron even tho those were powerful enough to put down the likes of Hulk and Thor. Did you unironically expect Hickman to have Thanos randomly kill off Carol like that? Fact that the discharge was ragdolling the Avengers with no resistance whatsoever means it's enough to destroy Summons that have nothing besides being oneshotted by Thor.
• Because it displays the inherent intended physical gap between Thanos and Thor level beings when he wasn't even really trying and was toying with the Annihilators for sport? Physical gap is clear here.

Besides, if you want something clear-cut between the two, I referenced Thanos physically matching Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor. Before getting the Power Gem he was powerful enough to savagely brutalize Beta Ray Bill, nearly kill Silver Surfer and proceed to overwhelm Warlock/Norrin duo simultaneously, and oneshotted PG Classic Drax all during the events of Blood and Thunder. So on the WM he was pretty much physically wrecking herald tiers and that was before he was further extensively amplified on the Power Gem.....Saying that, Thanos traded blows with him evenly in Silver Surfer #88 and made it clear they were equals, only ending the fight because he later got bored:

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The Power Gem has transformed Challenger of the Universe from upper mid tier to literally hospitalizing Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Drax the Destroyer and Beta Ray Bill - all of which are planetary+ threats cosmic heavyweights and Gladiator specifically was being hyped up in this story to be capable of wrestling planets out of their orbit and collapsing stars with his bare hands yet he just got wrecked regardless. Point being, the Power Gem HUGELY amps it's wielder and Base Challenger isn't even nearly as imposing as Thor is.

Imagine the kind of amp Thor would receive, let alone on the Warrior's Madness when he was stomping upper heralds? He was absolutely extraordinary in power level here. Now, Gorr shrugged off Thor's best hits but Thanos physically matched massively amped Thor who's realistically way stronger by quite the large margin. Seems quite the comparison from my view and I'm pretty sure he can maul Gorr in similar mannerisms to how he simply manhandled Lord Mar-Vell.

Intention?

And Thanos is shown smaller then Odin, Odin smaller then Galactus, almost ranked by their power. Because, Starlin made his Thanos vs Galactus intention pretty damn clear in terms of power levels in the first Thanos volume. Marquis also said his gods were insects in some dimensions and shows Ego and Mephisto. Not really great look for Thanos there to be an insect compared to Ego and Mephisto.

If you want to go fully with intention, I'm game because in Thor: God of Thunder #5, Gorr killed an Elder God off panel, you know, the thing that made the universe.

• Galactus is obviously going to be taller than Odin and this is literally just respective heights so I dunno what kind of screwed logic this is. Starlin had Thanos fight Odin extremely well for himself and way better than he did Galan. Nice job neglecting that those gods included freaking Eternity in the backgrounds.
• That Baby Elder God that he killed was an inbred offspring of the Elder Gods and so nowhere near as powerful.

I must ask you though, what are you doing here? Point of my comparisons with Thanos being among skyfathers and overpowering Odin's energy projection isn't to say Thanos is actually on those levels. Those are just random showings of hype from flashback collages and quick panels that ultimately prove literally nothing, similar to these scans where he's among the most powerful in the universe and being among abstracts. It was directed towards your fallacious logic toward Old King Thor's Thorforce intention scaling and how I could toy around with that kind of argumentation, whilst enforcing why I don't agree why it's viable.

You did go on to say Thor has always been about energy as much as he has about physicals but whilst his lightning is quite the major aspect of his powers that doesn't support your point when attempting to correlate to stats mate seeing as Thor has actually been oneshotted by his own lightning multiple times when it's redirected towards him...

Gallery

• Thor almost kills Beta Ray Bill, his exact physical equal, with his lightning bolt - Silver Surfer #86
• Amadeus Cho redirects Thor's lightning blasts and incapacitates him - Heroic Age: Prince of Power #4
• Phoenix Force Captain Mar-Vell redirected his lightning attack and oneshotted him. I guess you could say Odinson was weakened from the injuries he sustained in his prior fight but he's always had great damage soak - Secret Avengers #27

Thor's literally been oneshotted by his own energy attacks in the past and so this is precisely why I say that OKT sending Gorr lightyears with the Thorforce doesn't necessarily translate to having physicals on the same level like you're baselessly claiming to suit your argument. Can Thanos blast wayy harder than effortlessly reducing Magus to dust just because he seemed to be intended as Mar-Vell's better? I don't think so but it's similar to the speculative shit you're trying to pull.

The Necrosword

This counter is a little silly in my opinion. The Thor battle is just a fun thing to notice, not really important and as for covering the entire Sun, the panel clearly says "and saw the sun turn black" and in the panel, the necrosword is obviously still spreading as well. The only logical conclusion to draw from that, is that like the battle it continued to happen and he covered the entire sun.

So whilst the battle was happening he was spreading the Necrosword around the sun? How long was the battle and what do you mean that it's just something fun to notice when it's literally central and integral to the instance in question? I'm not trying to downplay this showing, it's actually quite impressive, but it's not like he's just casually star-level if he took several minutes to absorb the damn thing. Furthermore, there's the distinction between covering the surface of the sun from all sides and actually absorbing the whole thing, the latter is FAR more impressive and there's nothing to say Gorr did so.

It didn't absorb the blackhole, it overpowered it, that's an important distinction. And black holes aren't going to get whitled down like a piece of wood, even if it took months(Which I think it's pretty clear in universe that it didn't), it still possessed the power to overpower it. Overpowering it quickly would make the feat more impressive, but taking time doesn't make it less impressive if that makes sense.

It pretty clearly absorbed it actually. In the narration of Old King Thor, he says how it was merely just another black hole the last time he saw, which implies it transformed into something different in the form of the Necrosword absorbing it. I'm actually kind of absolutely astounded you unironically think the Necrosword has Black hole level strength based off 1 sketchy off-panel showing....I don't get what you mean by quickly overpowering the Black hole to begin with. Like, the raw durability could have simply meant the the gravitational forces weren't enough to crush it and so that allowed it to survive then start slowly absorbing it, instead of speculatively overpowering it, how would it even do that in it's sword form?

Furthermore, black holes work differently for showings depending on the types (smaller black holes wherein the tidal waves are often stronger or the larger forms) and so on that aspect even the Silver Surfer has fought inside the core of the black hole with Red Shift without any trouble in Galactus: The Devourer #2 and I'm sure you're aware about this shwoing. Saying that, Thanos smacked the shit out of Norrin in Cosmic Powers Unlimited #1 and the beating was so devastating that only one flicker of lifeforce remained inside the Surfer, he later went on to give Surfer to Mistress Death as his gift and rekindled his life-force when she declined.

Gallery

Thanos pretty much killed him and even tho it took 8 punches, I want to stress how impressive that actually is. Just KOing him would be quite the feat seeing as he's no sold planet busting attacks, supernovas and black holes but literally killing him is magnitudes above as these characters can survive way more then they can simply tank.

Though I'm going to lay out my views on Black hole feats. Those things vary depending on the types, where exactly the Necrosword was thrown, they literally warp spacetime and we don't fully understand them yet - I'm of the camp who believe such showings are split between blunt force, energy and transmutation/matter manipulation resistance myself but are ultimately unquantifiable depending on the showing. So it seems absolutely ludicrous to employ around half your argument on this single circumstance that's questionable in itself. But whatever though, Gorr goes up to Thanos and chops his head off with black hole level stabs, whatever swings your way mate...

Starting off, your comparison with Wolverine just astounds me, like seriously. I cannot understand how you thought Thanos did better in this situation. Like look what a freeshot from Wolverine on Thor did to him in issue #1of that series, it more or less left a scratch. And later Thor flat out stated that his asgardian skin was giving Wolverine trouble and that he couldn't do significant damage. And yet somehow this is worse than this

What? How? I wasn't going to bring up these instances because I think they're kinda dumb, but you are arguing that Wolverine going almost all the way into Thanos is better then him struggling to cut Thor. I just cannot understand that. By this example Gorr should be cutting Thanos apart by bumping into him with his armor.

Logan giving it his all in 2 direct stabs when he jumped Thanos but failing to go through enough that just some few drops blood will spill indeed looks better than repeatedly drawing blood from Thor with slashes. You didn't actually debunk anything here. You pretty much just went on and talked about how so astounded you are without providing substantial counterevidence to what I was actually saying whilst misrepresenting my stance all the same. How does this:

"Thanos didn't even drop any blood when Logan jumped at him with 2 direct stabs giving them his all and extra momentum yet he managed to draw blood from Thor with quick slashes."

Translate to arguing that Wolverine going almost all the way into Thanos is better than struggling to cut Thor? Are you making up arguments for myself? Or taking off what you just passed off with the Asgardian skin argument and say I'm arguing so before I even gave views on that? What Odinson was saying is that his skin is incredibly thick and so with tons of layers to go through. Quick slashes from adamantium claws that aren't awfully large aren't going to work as stabs and dig deep like that, that's not how slashes work mate.

And crucially never before or again. In fact, iirc, this is the only time in his entire career that Thanos has used an AoE blast. One panel, in one comic from his what, 300+ appearances? Doesn't seem too likely that he'll use it here.

He did it 1-2 other times actually but don't merely throw the appearance ballpark like that. In many of those comic books Thanos is written as BendisPIS who got clobbered by Thing, is extensively amplified (Heart of the Universe, Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmic Cube), doesn't actually fight or just isn't in the position that AoE energy attacks would be more effective than concentrated blasts. When he fought the Avengers, he wanted to end the fight whilst crowd controlling so it makes sense in that context and so herein as well.

Like, Thanos is extremely intelligent and has fought with tactics multiple times to gain upperhands. Look at his engagement with Power Gem Challenger of the Universe in Thanos Quest #1 when he read his telegraphed moves, fought long enough to make the PG increase his power and so manipulated him into busting the planet that he's stranded in space and gives Thanos the gem. Yet when maggots start eating him out he's going to just let them? Don't you think he's intelligent enough to figure out this simple tactic I proposed? There's really no reason to be skeptical about it, it's not like I talked about complex gameplans Thanos will employ.

He did a lot more sitting on his chair resting then you're giving him credit for.

But sometimes, fodder is not just fodder. As I've mentioned, Gorr can put different amounts of power into different shapes and figures, he's done this with summons too like with the serpent. This explains why the first black beserker Gorr created took hours for Thor to finish,(Thor: God of Thunder #2) while later ones were one-shot. Even 5 Thor level summons is going to start giving Thanos some issues.

But since you were so kind to mention the Leviathan, I'll gladly bring it out. In Thor: God of Thunder #9, Gorr summons a big serpent that eats up OKT and takes him quite a bit of time to beat it(note the at last implying quite a bit of effort).

• OKT was so weak when the Black Berserkers returned him to his Throne that he couldn't even walk properly and was crawling back to fight them. He wasn't fighting non stop every second but it's not like he was sufficiently healed every time either. But so what? Your argument for his power level comes from the Thorforce blast sending Gorr lightyears but he was pretty much drained until Thor came to his aid and rekindled it.
• So why weren't the Summons he sent against the Thor trio that powerful? Why were they oneshotted and treated like fodder all the instances Gorr used them against the Thors? You must prove Gorr can concentrate his power into the Black Berserkers whilst maintaining sufficient power levels and even then that he would use them as such given these showings suggest otherwise.
• Old King Thor still lacks impressive showings outside of that singular Thorforce blast that you're basing your argument of his physicals on.

Smacking around Gorr

It obviously wasn't just the bullrush that blew up the planet, they had a whole fight, which can clearly be seen in the bottom panel. And anyway why does tanking a planet blowing up matter, Gorr isn't going to punch him or blast him.

I actually referenced the bottom panel as Thanos demonstrating physical superiority (blocking Drax's charge and holding his other arm at bay) so you're going to have to gimme much more on your interpretation of the events. In my case, the narration states that Thanos explicitly met his charge (which we see through the blocking) and afterwards that the landscape became victim in the form of the planet-busting - this matches up quite nicely with what see panel by panel.

Regardless, so what? Thor had to repeatedly pound on Gorr thrice and the result was the shockwaves shredding the surface of the planet. I'd place the actual impact of the blows at Multi-Surface Wiping/Half Planet level at best given the distance he was away and everything but that doesn't translate to tanking planet busting attacks at all. You haven't actually countered the argument here, you just went on saying this feat was the result of 1 fight without addressing why it doesn't translate to beating up Gorr, especially as it's Thanos well before his amps. But let's conveniently cite Thanos fighting Phoenix Force Thane during Thanos Vol.2 #11 wherein they were smacking each other across interplanetary distances and at one point Thanos blitzed him so hard the planet was blown apart and Thane was momentarily incapacitated....

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I'm going to be direct with you though, Gorr can tank Thanos' beatings based on what? What showing does he have to withstand just 1 such onslaught as this without being taken out? I'm displaying Thanos blowing apart planets, literally killing upper heralds like the Silver Surfer, dominating Lord Mar-Vell, fighting Phoenix Force Users and stalemating Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor in physical contests but taking those strikes from Thor is the almighty showing? I'm sorry, but that's not anywhere near enough.

I would like to point out that for example, the farthest distance Pluto can be from the Sun is just 6 light hours so Pluto(the farthest well known orbital body) at farthest from the other side is 12 light hours. Writers aren't scientists, so do you think every writer knows solar systems would include a distance hundreds of times farther, or just from one side of Pluto's orbit to the other. Meanwhile, light years is a lot more clear as to how far Aaron intended. This is by far your best/most clear example though, but if it's so common a herald level feat, I'd like to see more examples.

The panel makes 0 mention of throwing the ship outside of the solar system.

Firelord literally states that he was at the edge of the Solar System after he was blasted by the Nova-Force even though he was originally near to Planets, that's as clear as it gets. For Silver Surfer, we see the ship passing planets instantaneously right after Norrin tosses the thing and the narration states that the vessel would keep going at that straight line for centuries on end, implying similar velocity throughout.

Fair enough on the Immortal Hulk showing, but since you want more examples there's Death Seed Sentry bullrushing Thor at MFTL+ speeds across many light years and smacking him into the planet on impact then following up by punching him so hard the shockwaves shook the planet yet Thor just came back for more without any signs of damage on his his face, during the events of Remender's Uncanny Avengers #10-11. I know he didn't take the actual attack launching him like that as he was bullrushed but he still landed on impact at such intense velocities so I'm pretty sure it's comparable at the very least.

I just don't view it as THAT impressive. You're sending someone at such incredible velocities and he lands on impact yet he shrugs it off but at the end of the day, it's still just 300 pounds. I'd honestly put the showing where Gorr flat out no sold the Thorforce blast at planet busting+ but definitely not beyond that. Similar feats have been replicated by multiple heralds.

Thanos then hooks him up to a machine to get a stable amount of energy from his ship and a lot more energy in general, so no this example is not applicable to Thanos's power. But yes, Thanos is way above Surfer, that doesn't mean anything toward Gorr however.

Don't believe that changes anything honestly. We know Thanos can siphon off power from his technology to increase his energy discharges and become more powerful mid combat based on showings like Captain Marvel Vol.4 #17 against Death God Walker. He even states in Infinity Revelation that he nourishes himself from consuming vast amounts of energy much like Adam. Taking that into account, the machine he used was literally his standard equipment flying chair that I think we can agree is fair to use, so I don't see what all the fuss is about, he could indeed use blasts powerful enough to oneshot Quasar and Silver Surfer herein....And that should be enough.

As for when he literally incinerated the Hulk, why do you feel so compelled to put that specific planet-busting label? You're focusing on absolutes, I'm not. Hulk doesn't really need to walk through planet busting blasts every Tuesday for the feat to be insanely impressive - because Thanos didn't just KO him, he didn't merely kill him, he reduced him to bare skeleton with nothing else remaining. These characters can survive way more than they can tank. On top of that, Thanos has oneshotted heralds multiple times:

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• Lays out Classic Drax the Destroyer with 1 energy beam in his weakest incarnation - Logan's Run #6
• Blasts Thor with eyebeams and he isn't seen for 6 pages - Infinity #6
• Easily incapacitates Morg, Herald of Galactus - Cosmic Powers #5

Oneshotting, oneshotting and oneshotting. We have Thanos KOing Thor with casual eyebeams nowhere near huge sustained blasts, taking out Classic Drax with 1 casual blast in his weakest incarnation, incapacitating Heralds of Galactus with greatest of ease. Even incinerating the Hulk with his discharges when he was in the Cancerverse, that weakened him and he was struggling to maintain mental composure let alone actually fight. Hell, Thanos literally busted his own head when he focused his energy projection to his head from both sides and his energy resistance is absurd. Not only does he no sell Gas Giants exploding with no damage, but way more powerful beings (Odin, Death God Walker, Tyrant) were unable to put him down with their onslaughts.

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How Gorr is supposed to keep going after Thanos blasts him with huge sustained energy discharges, I have no idea. This is just too much power output, destructive power and vast energies for him to handle. Overall, I'm pretty convinced the Mad Titan can royally smack the shit out of him and put him down without much trouble.

Conclusion

Scenario 1

This is pretty simple War of Attrition tactic. Gorr has no means to actually damage Thanos whereas he can put him down comfortably with energy projection and powerful blows (Gorr can regenerate but Thanos isn't going to cut him apart, he's going to maul the shit out of him with awesome power output and physical strength). Maggots and Black Berserkers will be incinerated through AoE discharges and Gorr's strength, being only Thor++ level, isn't going to be anywhere near close enough to actually affect Thanos and ragdoll him as you propose.

Scenario 2

This is if Gorr can somehow cut Thanos. Even if he can, I doubt he can just straight up chop his head off like nothing, and it's going to be hard to actually land that hit before Thanos puts him down. Like I showed against Challenger of the Universe, Thanos is smart and tactical with degrees of fighting skill to read telegraphed moves, and reflexes enough to react to attacks from characters wayy faster. Shields can briefly hold Gorr off before he shreds them, energy manipulation can put him out of balance and mess him up before Thanos ups them like with Cancerverse Hulk, and blows can smack him around. Just sharp weapons aren't going to give him the win here.

Kevd's sillyass nitpicking

@1kingjerry: Weak bait KoL

Very good post

Good post once again.

Thanos committing suicide with his own energy blasts is a pretty underrated feat imo, considering how astronomically durable he is.

Final Round

Overall, that was a really good post. Reminded a bit of what made me find Thanos so impressive when I read him in the first place. Anyway, I'm going to start with the nitpicks where I think some are either important, unfair, or a bit of a misunderstangings.

Because your best blunt force durability feat is tanking Thor's best hits? Because if Thanos is absurdly more powerful based on showings and smacked him down on top of actually catching lightning-amped Mjolnir strikes when Thor was giving it his all it means Thor doesn't compare in striking power? Because the fact he managed to stalemate Warrior's Madness PG Thor in physical contests, and he's massively amped version of Thor? C'mon man, what did you think I was implying?

Sure Thanos is more physically dominant then Thor, I'll readily admit that. But it's important with that showing with Gorr that, firstly a large part of his power was with the serpent attacking OKT, when the energy from that serpent joined Gorr he was capable of no-selling an attack that previously messed him up far worse then Thor's hits. Secondly, I'm well aware that Thanos is a lot stronger then Thor, but for 1, Thor's specialty is striking so the gap there is smaller then everywhere else, secondly and more importantly Thor was giving his all in this feat to the point where his bones are breaking. Could Thanos still replicate that? Absolutely, but I don't think the difference in his output from Thor's is bigger then the durability amp Gorr got later in that issue. Especially not a big enough difference that Thanos will easily put down Gorr physically.

A little off topic from that, but considering Gorr literally has like 9 appearances, I really don't think we should be splitting his energy and blunt-force durability since he hasn't shown any obvious differences, doesn't have logical reasons for differences, and doesn't have a wealth of feats to represent both.

Rich's shields have multiple absurd feats (like simply withstanding Galactus' discharge that was shredding planets before reaching other star systems) and when he attacked Lord Mar-Vell, Worldmine said the shields were at full power on account of Mar-Vell being ludicrously powerful. Effortlessly breaking his gravimetric shields with 1 blow is quite good. Though Mar-Vell in general was seemingly well above people like Magus and the Annihilators...

And as a Nova Corpsman he's particularly built to withstand energy blasts like Galactus's rather then Punches. Like recently as a normal Guardian(a lot weaker), Rich shielded himself from a Supernova(Guardians of the Galaxy vol 5 Annual #1) by tapping into the heat and radiation from the energy blast. Logically he did the same thing with Galactus, but it's not at all something he could do with a punch.

And I agree that Mar-Vell is way above Magus/The Annihilators, but as I mentioned he's someone we have reason to believe specialized in energy over physicals(as basically all energy manipulators like Rich and Mar-Vell do). Breaking the shields in 1 hit is a decent feat, but I honestly think someone like Thor could replicate it.(especially since Cancer-verse Thor one-shot Quasar's shield in the same series).

Aquaman survived AoE attacks from Darkseid that oneshotted the Justice League even tho he's not nearly as powerful as Clark. Iron man survived large energy discharges from Ultron even tho those were powerful enough to put down the likes of Hulk and Thor. Did you unironically expect Hickman to have Thanos randomly kill off Carol like that? Fact that the discharge was ragdolling the Avengers with no resistance whatsoever means it's enough to destroy Summons that have nothing besides being oneshotted by Thor.

Fair enough on the survival part, but how about the fact that Thor didn't seem to be too hurt by it? But even if we assume it can just one-shot the summons, Thanos still has to do it, and that leaves him open to being chopped up by Gorr.

Besides, if you want something clear-cut between the two, I referenced Thanos physically matching Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor. Before getting the Power Gem he was powerful enough to savagely brutalize Beta Ray Bill, nearly kill Silver Surfer and proceed to overwhelm Warlock/Norrin duo simultaneously, and oneshotted PG Classic Drax all during the events of Blood and Thunder. So on the WM he was pretty much physically wrecking herald tiers and that was before he was further extensively amplified on the Power Gem.....Saying that, Thanos traded blows with him evenly in Silver Surfer #88 and made it clear they were equals, only ending the fight because he later got bored:

I agree, this is a super impressive feat for Thanos, but I fail to see how it's enough to put down Gorr. It's not like he was really putting down Thor in this fight, he was staggering him. And I've always seen Thanos as more of a tank, so him getting in a fight where basically neither character can put the other down(which seemed to be kinda where the fight was at) isn't that surprising to me. And I honestly don't think the Power Gem amp was much more if any more then the amp Gorr received from the Necrosword in God of Thunder 9 that would amp his durability and the level of Striking Thor was using in that situation would pretty badly mess up everyone you mentioned, especially with repeated hits. So yeah, I do think Thanos probably holds a physicals advantage, but he's gonna struggle to put Gorr down and when he does get up close, Gorr can dispatch him with ease.

The Power Gem has transformed Challenger of the Universe from upper mid tier to literally hospitalizing Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Drax the Destroyer and Beta Ray Bill - all of which are planetary+ threats cosmic heavyweights and Gladiator specifically was being hyped up in this story to be capable of wrestling planets out of their orbit and collapsing stars with his bare hands yet he just got wrecked regardless. Point being, the Power Gem HUGELY amps it's wielder and Base Challenger isn't even nearly as imposing as Thor is.

This I do have a problem with you using because this story arc was a joke story arc. In the same story arc She-Hulk was appointed as Judge of the multiverse by the LT and when She-Hulk a literal mid tier got in the ring with the Challenger, she got beat up a ton and stayed standing up(1,2). PG Champion was certainly powerful, but I don't think this arc can be used as a fair representation of what Starlin had in mind for the power jump.

Intention Argument

I'd like to start by saying I think you've twisted this quite a bit. I started by saying because OKT did a feat I think quite out of the range of normal Thor and the OF amps Thor in all ways, it's logical to think his physicals would be several times better then Thor. That's it, and you equivocated that to Panels of Thanos being compared to other characters and panels of him doing acts that didn't happen because it was all "intent". I don't think that's fair at all, I don't even think the instances you posted are as valid as Gorr killing an Elder God because you know, that actually happened(which he did fly toward the big healthy one, but even assuming it was one of the disgusting infants, it was still packing that kind of power).

As for the lightning instances, really only the Cho one is probably valid(B&T and Injury for the other two), but I don't see how that debunks my point, this is the amp of the Odin-Force which makes Thor stronger in all aspects canonically.

Can Thanos blast wayy harder than effortlessly reducing Magus to dust just because he seemed to be intended as Mar-Vell's better? I don't think so but it's similar to the speculative shit you're trying to pull.

No, it's not at all similar. I'm making a reasonable assertion that because OKT had an amp to everything that made him do something a couple of times beyond normal Thor, it would apply to his durability as well. That's it.

Actual Debate: The Necrosword

So whilst the battle was happening he was spreading the Necrosword around the sun?

Yeah, makes it even more impressive that he did it in a combat situation

How long was the battle and what do you mean that it's just something fun to notice when it's literally central and integral to the instance in question?

It's just something fun to notice because I'm not mentioning the off panel fight as a feat, I'm talking about Gorr covering the Sun, which he seemed to have good headway on in like a couple of seconds.

I'm not trying to downplay this showing, it's actually quite impressive, but it's not like he's just casually star-level if he took several minutes to absorb the damn thing

Considering he was in a fight while he did it, I think that'd be pretty casual. And I mean you say he's not just casually star level, but that'd still put him waaaaay above say large planet level, where a lot of your scaling and feats seem to stack up(like I'd probably put PG Thor around here)

Furthermore, there's the distinction between covering the surface of the sun from all sides and actually absorbing the whole thing, the latter is FAR more impressive and there's nothing to say Gorr did so.

I never said that he did absorb it. With Gorr, his power is literally the physical necrosword, if he can stretch it to cover the Sun, that means he has a sun's worth of power in the Necrosword that he can concentrate into different objects. So he can concentrate a Sun's worth of power into a blade of Necrosword and cut Thanos with it.

It pretty clearly absorbed it actually. In the narration of Old King Thor, he says how it was merely just another black hole the last time he saw, which implies it transformed into something different in the form of the Necrosword absorbing it.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the absorbtion stuff, the Necrosword or Gorr have never shown absorbtion powers, ever. You can literally see the Necrosword peeking out of the Black hole, so it seems a lot more likely that the Necrosword just overpowered the gravititational pull of the Black Hole and took it over.

I'm actually kind of absolutely astounded you unironically think the Necrosword has Black hole level strength based off 1 sketchy off-panel showing....I don't get what you mean by quickly overpowering the Black hole to begin with. Like, the raw durability could have simply meant the the gravitational forces weren't enough to crush it and so that allowed it to survive then start slowly absorbing it, instead of speculatively overpowering it, how would it even do that in it's sword form?

Yeah, it's pretty clear what happened off panel. It overpowered and took over the black hole. I'm not sure how that's sketchy, especially since the Necrosword doesn't have absorption powers beyond absorbing living hosts maybe? And as for the sword, what I'm saying is that Gorr can take the overall power of the Necrosword and concentrate a lot of it into a blade that will easily cut through Thanos.

Furthermore, black holes work differently for showings depending on the types (smaller black holes wherein the tidal waves are often stronger or the larger forms) and so on that aspect even the Silver Surfer has fought inside the core of the black hole with Red Shift without any trouble in Galactus: The Devourer #2 and I'm sure you're aware about this shwoing. Saying that, Thanos smacked the shit out of Norrin in Cosmic Powers Unlimited #1 and the beating was so devastating that only one flicker of lifeforce remained inside the Surfer, he later went on to give Surfer to Mistress Death as his gift and rekindled his life-force when she declined.

For what it's worth that wasn't a natural black hole, but artificial so possibly not adhering to the same collapsed star rule, but either way, the Necrosword didn't just sit in the black hole, being pushed down by it's gravity with durability, it actively overtook it and proved itself stronger.

The Surfer feat is great and all, except the whole no-selling Supernovas thing, he surfs them that's quite a bit different. He starts far away and rolls with the punch of a supernova. Probably above planet busting, but not at all no-selling supernova level.

Though I'm going to lay out my views on Black hole feats. Those things vary depending on the types, where exactly the Necrosword was thrown, they literally warp spacetime and we don't fully understand them yet - I'm of the camp who believe such showings are split between blunt force, energy and transmutation/matter manipulation resistance myself but are ultimately unquantifiable depending on the showing. So it seems absolutely ludicrous to employ around half your argument on this single circumstance that's questionable in itself. But whatever though, Gorr goes up to Thanos and chops his head off with black hole level stabs, whatever swings your way mate...

I don't see how this is unquantifiable, he overpowered a black hole, what about that is matter manip resistance? Sure I probably put too much of my argument on this when I didn't need to, just casually cutting OKT is enough, but I wanted to explain what I thought of Gorr's power and the Necrosword.

Logan giving it his all in 2 direct stabs when he jumped Thanos but failing to go through enough that just some few drops blood will spill indeed looks better than repeatedly drawing blood from Thor with slashes. You didn't actually debunk anything here. You pretty much just went on and talked about how so astounded you are without providing substantial counterevidence to what I was actually saying whilst misrepresenting my stance all the same. How does this:

I really think the lack of blood is just an artistic choice. Blood has never been a real factor in deciding how much damage was done in comics. All it takes to see who got it worse is that Logan was literally embedded in Thanos and barely broke Thor's skin. The difference between slash and stab is not that much, and even if it was there's the fact that OKT is that much more durable then Thor and Gorr cut through both way easier then Wolverine did with Thor. Like I don't understand, Wolverine easily cuts into Thanos, struggles with Thor, but Gorr casually cuts through Thor at his absolute weakest incarnation(like Gorr was mega weak), but will struggle with Thanos?

He did it 1-2 other times actually but don't merely throw the appearance ballpark like that. In many of those comic books Thanos is written as BendisPIS who got clobbered by Thing, is extensively amplified (Heart of the Universe, Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmic Cube), doesn't actually fight or just isn't in the position that AoE energy attacks would be more effective than concentrated blasts. When he fought the Avengers, he wanted to end the fight whilst crowd controlling so it makes sense in that context and so herein as well.

And all those other times he was fighting in a crowd and didn't use it? Avengers Annual #7, Quasar #38, Warlock #11 for a few examples. Even his few other AoE instances like with the Punishers isn't at all like in Infinity or as effective. And you can't just dismiss all the showings you don't like about Thanos, like Hickman's Thanos was just as out of character as Bendis's so why can't I say Hickman's Thanos is PIS and he doesn't AoE attack like that normally.

Like, Thanos is extremely intelligent and has fought with tactics multiple times to gain upperhands. Look at his engagement with Power Gem Challenger of the Universe in Thanos Quest #1 when he read his telegraphed moves, fought long enough to make the PG increase his power and so manipulated him into busting the planet that he's stranded in space and gives Thanos the gem. Yet when maggots start eating him out he's going to just let them? Don't you think he's intelligent enough to figure out this simple tactic I proposed? There's really no reason to be skeptical about it, it's not like I talked about complex gameplans Thanos will employ.

Well I'll be glad to know how Thanos's intelligence is going to stop the Maggots from eating him from the inside out while Gorr is ready to chop his head off(the maggots are on his inside, can't just be blasted off, and if they are once again gives Gorr time to chop Thanos's head off). Just saying "intelligence" is not a counter to one of Gorr's moves

OKT was so weak when the Black Berserkers returned him to his Throne that he couldn't even walk properly and was crawling back to fight them. He wasn't fighting non stop every second but it's not like he was sufficiently healed every time either. But so what? Your argument for his power level comes from the Thorforce blast sending Gorr lightyears but he was pretty much drained until Thor came to his aid and rekindled it.

Yeah he was so weak because he just got beat in the fight I was talking about? How is that supposed to support he was worn out before the Black Beserkers overtook him. Even ignoring the Thor-Force, he still had the Odin-Sword and Destroyer Arm which would give him better damage output then Thanos and he still got overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

So why weren't the Summons he sent against the Thor trio that powerful? Why were they oneshotted and treated like fodder all the instances Gorr used them against the Thors? You must prove Gorr can concentrate his power into the Black Berserkers whilst maintaining sufficient power levels and even then that he would use them as such given these showings suggest otherwise.

Because like everything else Gorr does he can allocate more or less power to each thing the Necrosword does. Hence why the first Black Beserker Thor meets takes him hours to defeat and the Serpent was so much more powerful then the Black Beserkers, just 3-4 legit Thor level Black Beserkers are going to be a problem for Thanos to deal with combined with the threat of Gorr himself.

I actually referenced the bottom panel as Thanos demonstrating physical superiority (blocking Drax's charge and holding his other arm at bay) so you're going to have to gimme much more on your interpretation of the events. In my case, the narration states that Thanos explicitly met his charge (which we see through the blocking) and afterwards that the landscape became victim in the form of the planet-busting - this matches up quite nicely with what see panel by panel.

Notice how he says the landscape became victim and ultimately of it's total devastation. I don't know about you, but Ultimately implies some time to me and that it was more then just one bullrush and boom the planet blew up. I think it's pretty clear that a fight took place before the planet blew up, especially since the planet is very much in tact when we see Thanos has blocked his bullrush on panel.

Regardless, so what? Thor had to repeatedly pound on Gorr thrice and the result was the shockwaves shredding the surface of the planet. I'd place the actual impact of the blows at Multi-Surface Wiping/Half Planet level at best given the distance he was away and everything but that doesn't translate to tanking planet busting attacks at all. You haven't actually countered the argument here, you just went on saying this feat was the result of 1 fight without addressing why it doesn't translate to beating up Gorr, especially as it's Thanos well beforehis amps. But let's conveniently cite Thanos fighting Phoenix Force Thane during Thanos Vol.2 #11 wherein they were smacking each other across interplanetary distances and at one point Thanos blitzed him so hard the planet was blown apart and Thane was momentarily incapacitated....

So he blew up a planet with a bullrush? Ok, I've already mentioned that Gorr got that big amp in the Necrosword in that issue after being hit around by Gorr so his durability would be waaay beyond that of not being damaged by "Half planet level" blows earlier. As well as my opinion on split durability for Gorr.

I'm going to be direct with you though, Gorr can tank Thanos' beatings based on what?What showing does he have to withstand just 1 such onslaught as this without being taken out? I'm displaying Thanos blowing apart planets, literally killing upper heralds like the Silver Surfer, dominating Lord Mar-Vell, fighting Phoenix Force Users and stalemating Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor in physical contests but taking those strikes from Thor is the almighty showing? I'm sorry, but that's not anywhere near enough.

Yeah but no-selling an energy blast where Thor can't output that kind of power, I think that's quite enough. Especially since with these other characters when Thanos starts beating them up in H2H, they don't have much to do, but Gorr has the Necrosword and can just cut right through Thanos, ending his beatup immediately or use the Necrosword as a push to force him back.

Firelord literally states that he was at the edge of the Solar System after he was blasted by the Nova-Force even though he was originally near to Planets, that's as clear as it gets. For Silver Surfer, we see the ship passing planets instantaneously right after Norrin tosses the thing and the narration states that the vessel would keep going at that straight line for centuries on end, implying similar velocity throughout.

Seems like Surfer flies out to Saturn, throws them and they're chilling flying near Saturn. Firstly, I don't really see how this relates to the durability of heralds since it's strength, but for reference anyway, the distance from the Sun to Saturn is less then 1/6000 of a light year. Gorr traveled multiple light years in a second, Surfer is maybe going to end up throwing that ship a light year in a century. Don't think it's comparable at all.

Fair enough on the Immortal Hulk showing, but since you want more examples there's Death Seed Sentry bullrushing Thor at MFTL+ speeds across many light years and smacking him into the planet on impact then following up by punching him so hard the shockwaves shook the planet yet Thor just came back for more without any signs of damage on his his face, during the events of Remender's Uncanny Avengers #10-11. I know he didn't take the actual attack launching him like that as he was bullrushed but he still landed on impact at such intense velocities so I'm pretty sure it's comparable at the very least.

The DSS instance is not comparable at all as it's about the fact that Gorr was hit by an attack that hit him multiple light years in a second(and remember this solar system comparison is only remotely comparable if we assume the absolute minimum 2 light years which is still .5 lightyears more then the solar system). Being bullrushed that distance does not carry the same power behind the initial hit and Gorr experienced the bullrush hitting too when he hit the planet. And remember, he later on no-sells this attack as it in does nothing.

And even within the Fire-Lord instance, out of that portal comes Gladiator who is immediately in the next panel addressed by Supernova. Do you really think the distance between the two is meant to be lightyears apart. You know where it would've taken those ships and Glads quite a bit of time to get there but instead they do it instantly. Earlier on we see the new warriors fly from the stargate to Supernova and it seems pretty close there too. Not at all the multiple light years Gorr had.

I just don't view it as THAT impressive. You're sending someone at such incredible velocities and he lands on impact yet he shrugs it off but at the end of the day, it's still just 300 pounds. I'd honestly put the showing where Gorr flat out no sold the Thorforce blast at planet busting+ but definitely not beyond that. Similar feats have been replicated by multiple heralds.

At best you have one, and that relies on the writer not only being very up to date on science that he probably doesn't know, but also that he's basing the length of the solar system of the Oort cloud and the not the Heliosphere, which would make the feat nowhere near as good as Gorr's feat if we assume the absolute worst about Gorr's feat(2 light years instead of say 3, which would make it the length of 2 solar systems). But to compare to other characters on that level, Superman punched Wonder Woman from the Sun to the Earth in a couple of seconds and it's widely considered one of his best striking feats ever. The distance from the Sun to the Earth is legit hundreds of thousands of times less then what Gorr traveled in the same amount of time, and not only did Gorr take it that first time, he quickly recovered and later no-sold it.

Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, since Gorr is lacking in feats and we have no reason to distinguish between his blunt-force and energy durability, we should treat them as the same, which means this feat should apply to physicals as well.

Don't believe that changes anything honestly. We know Thanos can siphon off power from his technology to increase his energy discharges and become more powerful mid combat based on showings like Captain Marvel Vol.4 #17 against Death God Walker. He even states in Infinity Revelation that he nourishes himself from consuming vast amounts of energy much like Adam. Taking that into account, the machine he used was literally his standard equipment flying chair that I think we can agree is fair to use, so I don't see what all the fuss is about, he could indeed use blasts powerful enough to oneshot Quasar and Silver Surfer herein....And that should be enough.

I don't think he can. This is literally DB Power scaling kind of stuff. Adam one-shotted Quasar and Surfer, but Thanos didn't and never has despite the fact he's fought them both several times. And as you well know, I fully believe Adam has better damage output then Thanos and that version in particular showed energy abilities that Thanos has never had. If you wanted to make an argument that Thanos could one-shot Surfer, the instance with his Astral Form in Surfer vol 3 would've been better evidence, but even that wasn't a one-shot.

As for when he literally incinerated the Hulk, why do you feel so compelled to put that specific planet-busting label? You're focusing on absolutes, I'm not. Hulk doesn't really need to walk through planet busting blasts every Tuesday for the feat to be insanely impressive - because Thanos didn't just KO him, he didn't merely kill him, he reduced him to bare skeleton with nothing else remaining. These characters can survive way more than they can tank. On top of that, Thanos has oneshotted heralds multiple times:

You seemed to be pretty interested in those absolutes when discussing Gorr's durability. But I think you are focusing waaay to much on just general "tier" instead of what each character means.

Lays out Classic Drax the Destroyer with 1 energy beam in his weakest incarnation - Logan's Run #6

Legit impressive, but I don't think remotely close enough to put down Gorr

Blasts Thor with eyebeams and he isn't seen for 6 pages - Infinity #6

Those 6 pages were like maybe, maybe 30 seconds of fighting(that's a big stretch) in universe, it wasn't a lot.

Easily incapacitates Morg, Herald of Galactus - Cosmic Powers #5

Who had been tortured(and likely drained) by Tyrant. Also Morg's been one-shot by Surfer before so...

Hell, Thanos literally busted his own head when he focused his energy projection to his head from both sides and his energy resistance is absurd. Not only does he no sell Gas Giants exploding with no damage, but way more powerful beings (Odin, Death God Walker, Tyrant) were unable to put him down with their onslaughts.

... Come on dude. I know I've used this in the past, but this is obviously a massive outlier for Thanos. I mean look at the characters you listed, Odin, Walker, Tyrant, all of those characters were clearly more powerful then Thanos(bar Tyrant) yet couldn't do this, and if Thanos has a weak point it's his damage output. So you're telling me not only does Thanos hit some much harder then these people that he can Ko himself, not even kill himself, but literally explode himself. Only if you take the In Betweener feat at absolute face value does another of his feats come within miles of this.

Conclusion

Basically, Thanos is a strong dude, powerful too. But he's lacking the ability to stop from getting pierced by Gorr and to easily put Gorr down. Gorr can put a lot of power in a sword and will use it to kill Thanos. Through the gut, decapitate him, whatever, it's all pretty easy for Gorr to do and if Thanos tries to go in H2H, that's what will end up happening. Plus, while Thanos is trying to dodge Gorr like you say in your second scenario, Thanos has to deal with Gorr's summons or Gorr's Maggots, which while not doing a lot will slow Thanos down and allow Gorr to cleanly chop off his head.

As for Thanos attempting to put down Gorr, I don't think you've shown that he can. The best feats shown for Thanos seem to be one-shotting Heralds and stuff like that, but Gorr took a blast that I don't think any herald could've taken and then after an amp no-sold the same blast so I really think Thanos is going to be struggling putting down Gorr here.

Nice.

1.0 | Putting down Gorr

Sure Thanos is more physically dominant then Thor, I'll readily admit that. But it's important with that showing with Gorr that, firstly a large part of his power was with the serpent attacking OKT, when the energy from that serpent joined Gorr he was capable of no-selling an attack that previously messed him up far worse then Thor's hits. Secondly, I'm well aware that Thanos is a lot stronger then Thor, but for 1, Thor's specialty is striking so the gap there is smaller then everywhere else, secondly and more importantly Thor was giving his all in this feat to the point where his bones are breaking. Could Thanos still replicate that? Absolutely, but I don't think the difference in his output from Thor's is bigger then the durability amp Gorr got later in that issue. Especially not a big enough difference that Thanos will easily put down Gorr physically.

A little off topic from that, but considering Gorr literally has like 9 appearances, I really don't think we should be splitting his energy and blunt-force durability since he hasn't shown any obvious differences, doesn't have logical reasons for differences, and doesn't have a wealth of feats to represent both.

Few things here: 1) Then that implies Gorr can't keep up with sufficient power levels if he's using large chunks of the Necrosword to create powerful Summons like maintaining 1 Thor++/Old King Thor level construct. Given Thanos has the damage output to bust the Black Leviathan then in the end that'll only weaken Gorr and allow Thanos to beat him down more easily. 2) Thor was giving it his all against Thanos, saying that one of them will have to die in the encounter and hitting so hard the blowback of his blows shattered his armor. He even amplified his Mjolnir strikes with lightning which has just as much power as his blows. That's overall comparable to those hits against Gorr yet Thanos still effortlessly caught his lightning amped Mjolnir strikes then overpowered him.

That's baseless subjective interpretation to be honest and I have my own thoughts regarding that. The Necrosword is an ironically divinely powerful weapon that's used for killing off Gods all across the Universe and imbibing on their deaths. I myself consider beings and weapons with such nature to be more attuned against vast divine energies like Old King Thor's Thorforce blast, kinda like how I see Thanos simply more attuned to withstanding powerful cosmic and divine energies due to his nature and power reserves.

And as a Nova Corpsman he's particularly built to withstand energy blasts like Galactus's rather then Punches. Like recently as a normal Guardian(a lot weaker), Rich shielded himself from a Supernova(Guardians of the Galaxy vol 5 Annual #1) by tapping into the heat and radiation from the energy blast. Logically he did the same thing with Galactus, but it's not at all something he could do with a punch.

And I agree that Mar-Vell is way above Magus/The Annihilators, but as I mentioned he's someone we have reason to believe specialized in energy over physicals(as basically all energy manipulators like Rich and Mar-Vell do). Breaking the shields in 1 hit is a decent feat, but I honestly think someone like Thor could replicate it.(especially since Cancer-verse Thor one-shot Quasar's shield in the same series).

And that's the freaking point. I used Thanos stomping Lord Mar-Vell to implicate his power levels and energy projection similar to your own flawed logic. How is it fair for you to go ahead and scale off OKT in the speculative way you did but not fair to display Thanos being intended to be Mar-Vell's superior as clear cut showing of being more powerful? Mar-Vell who literally dusted Magus with 1 effortless wave of his hand himself. At least Thanos Imperative made it's conscious decision to have Mar-Vell stomp Annihilators/Magus then get wrecked by Thanos. And I notice the irony of saying Thor can break them when the shields already no sold the combined attacks of Cancerverse Thor, Captain Marvel and Quasar in the Thanos Imperative #6...

I agree, this is a super impressive feat for Thanos, but I fail to see how it's enough to put down Gorr. It's not like he was really putting down Thor in this fight, he was staggering him. And I've always seen Thanos as more of a tank, so him getting in a fight where basically neither character can put the other down(which seemed to be kinda where the fight was at) isn't that surprising to me. And I honestly don't think the Power Gem amp was much more if any more then the amp Gorr received from the Necrosword in God of Thunder 9 that would amp his durability and the level of Striking Thor was using in that situation would pretty badly mess up everyone you mentioned, especially with repeated hits. So yeah, I do think Thanos probably holds a physicals advantage, but he's gonna struggle to put Gorr down and when he does get up close, Gorr can dispatch him with ease.

This I do have a problem with you using because this story arc was a joke story arc. In the same story arc She-Hulk was appointed as Judge of the multiverse by the LT and when She-Hulk a literal mid tier got in the ring with the Challenger, she got beat up a ton and stayed standing up(1,2). PG Champion was certainly powerful, but I don't think this arc can be used as a fair representation of what Starlin had in mind for the power jump.

First of all dear voters, I want you to note that Kev is changing arguments here. He was initially hyping up the Black hole feat and saying it translates to Gorr's physical level and that Thanos would be millions of times outgunned but now he says that Thanos holds the physical advantage. This is something he's done repeatedly throughout his post and we're going to get to that soon. Second of all, I never claimed Thanos was putting down Thor so this is explicit strawmanning and it's especially suspicious to ramble like this after talking about how impressive it is for Thanos, which is what this accumulates to: senseless rambling. Thanos and Thor were physically wrestling and matching each other (hence being unable to put each other down which is literally the point) and it was being made clear they were at the same overall physical level more or less.

You're relying way too much on this supposed amp. You're gotten on the defensive now and are purely hinging on the Necrosword's amp perfectly scaling across everything and then speculating about how much it will improve Gorr's tolerance to blunt force. Silver Surfer shrugs off planetary explosions and planet busting attacks yet Warrior's Madness Thor nearly killed him along with oneshotting people like Classic Drax who are definitely Planet-level themselves which is where Gorr was at best. He'd handily dispatch Gorr before the amp in God of Thunder #9 so I believe the strength gap with the Power Gem highly outmatches Gorr's own amp. I remain completely unconvinced here. Since Thanos can just simply beat on Gorr and it's been conceded that he holds the physical advantage, there's nothing stopping him from just crushing him like he was doing with Lord Mar-Vell as I showed earlier..

He has the physical strength to beat the shit out of Gorr and could just flat out crush him with his strength to be honest. Gorr's best feats come from being way stronger than 616 Thor, which is piss poor in comparison to Thanos who's been outwrestling Planet Busters that rip apart Star cores like Classic Drax since his weakest incarnation and destroying planets with his fights along with evenly matching Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor. As for my Power Gem comparison....

Champion wasn't taking her seriously because she's female and later referred to that match as simple sparring so I believe it's valid. Starlin himself made exclamations throughout Blood and Thunder that Thor with the Power Gem would be pretty much unstoppable and that he could lay waste to Asgard and the Universe. He even wrote Silver Surfer stating that Thor's power has become such that the combined might of Adam Warlock, Drax the Destroyer and Norrin himself is nothing to him....It's completely rational to believe that The Power Gem made Thor multiple times more powerful through Starlin's own intentions especially as he borderline oneshotted Silver Surfer with casual Mjolnir throw after the Power Gem amp, something he needed 4 hits to do previously.

Gallery

Notice how he says the landscape became victim and ultimately of it's total devastation. I don't know about you, but Ultimately implies some time to me and that it was more then just one bullrush and boom the planet blew up. I think it's pretty clear that a fight took place before the planet blew up, especially since the planet is very much in tact when we see Thanos has blocked his bullrush on panel.

So he blew up a planet with a bullrush? Ok, I've already mentioned that Gorr got that big amp in the Necrosword in that issue after being hit around by Gorr so his durability would be waaay beyond that of not being damaged by "Half planet level" blows earlier. As well as my opinion on split durability for Gorr.

The Surfer feat is great and all, except the whole no-selling Supernovas thing, he surfs them that's quite a bit different. He starts far away and rolls with the punch of a supernova. Probably above planet busting, but not at all no-selling supernova level

Shockwaves from the bullrush that Thanos blocked were making everything crumble - all the narration states is that the landscape became victim to the clash and was getting wretched from it's normal ebbs and tides until it ultimately blew up. Ultimately was on the narration of how the landscape was getting destroyed, not in-description of the fight between Thanos and Drax. And actually ripping apart the Celestial Object and overpowering it's Gravitational Binding Energy is multiple times more powerful than what Thor did so trying to perfectly scale Gorr's amp doesn't work.

You've switched up the argument in your last post to that amp and you're pushing it to the absolute extreme to counter every feat I bring up. I'm going to shed some doubt on that and say Gorr needed to seriously concentrate on blocking the blast with seemingly stretching the Necrosword out. Because if you believe that Gorr can take blows that bust planets to bits and pieces, literally kill off Silver Surfer and trade blows with Warrior's Madness Power Gem Thor who was magnitudes more powerful than stomping Planet level cosmic heavyweights based off becoming durable enough to no sell Thor's best hits that were definitely below planet busting by sizable amount then I'm calling bullshit.

So you're saying Silver Surfer no sells planet busting+ attacks? Awesome mate, Thanos killed him in 8 punches and Norrin isn't really affected by attacks above Planet Busting. That's easily on Gorr's level and Thanos completely destroyed him without any trouble. Therefore, what stops Thanos from beating up Gorr to shit? You literally didn't counter this showing and now I can conclude Thanos wrecks.

Seems like Surfer flies out to Saturn, throws them and they're chilling flying near Saturn. Firstly, I don't really see how this relates to the durability of heralds since it's strength, but for reference anyway, the distance from the Sun to Saturn is less then 1/6000 of a light year. Gorr traveled multiple light years in a second, Surfer is maybe going to end up throwing that ship a light year in a century. Don't think it's comparable at all.

The DSS instance is not comparable at all as it's about the fact that Gorr was hit by an attack that hit him multiple light years in a second(and remember this solar system comparison is only remotely comparable if we assume the absolute minimum 2 light years which is still .5 lightyears more then the solar system). Being bullrushed that distance does not carry the same power behind the initial hit and Gorr experienced the bullrush hitting too when he hit the planet. And remember, he later on no-sells this attack as it in does nothing.

At best you have one, and that relies on the writer not only being very up to date on science that he probably doesn't know, but also that he's basing the length of the solar system of the Oort cloud and the not the Heliosphere, which would make the feat nowhere near as good as Gorr's feat if we assume the absolute worst about Gorr's feat(2 light years instead of say 3, which would make it the length of 2 solar systems). But to compare to other characters on that level, Superman punched Wonder Woman from the Sun to the Earth in a couple of seconds and it's widely considered one of his best striking feats ever. The distance from the Sun to the Earth is legit hundreds of thousands of times less then what Gorr traveled in the same amount of time, and not only did Gorr take it that first time, he quickly recovered and later no-sold it.

• He throws the spaceship past Jupiter that's seen in the background then it's instantaneously near Saturn. And that ship would be 10,000s of tons...Let's say Gorr weights 300 pounds and then let's assume the bare minimum weight of ten thousand tons which translates to 20000000 pounds. That's literally 100,000x more impressive than smacking Gorr that distance. Gorr was sent faster and he did take the initial hit along with becoming more durable but the weight gap is horrendous here. I'd say Norrin's feat equals what Gorr took overall and Thanos is way more powerful than Silver Surfer.
• ....It does carry similar overall power output. You are effectively taking the impact of the landing through the punch. Death Seed Sentry bullrushed Thor many light years in moments and crashed him into the planet then punched him hard enough to shake the thing. Gorr's feat is like twice as better I know (initial hit + amp) but if Thor's is comparable then it's not as special as you make it out to be.

Comparing with Superman is inherently fallacious. He doesn't scale to our characters and he's not anywhere remotely close to the people Thanos spanks on daily basis. In fact, his best punch is considered to be moonbusting which takes 1800 times less energy than planetbusting, something extremely casual for someone like Silver Surfer let alone freaking Thanos. But let's calculate this feat that you feel is special and look at which ballpark it remains because you're putting it at extreme levels. Kinetic energy (KE) is equal to half of an object's mass (1/2*m) multiplied by the velocity squared so we have to find out the mass and velocity first. Mass is pretty easy as it's fair to assume Gorr is around 300 pounds but the velocity takes more work. Gorr traveled multiple lightyears so let's say 3 lightyears (or 2.838e+13 km for this calculator) and the time it took to cross the distance is 5 seconds...

Now, we have the mass and velocity. Let's plug these figures into our handy Kinetic energy calculator and...the total energy required is 2.19201E+33 Joules. Let's bring some perspective and consider the fact that the Gravitational Binding energy that's required to unbind Earth so to speak is 2.487 x 10^32 Joules - then Gorr's feat would be 11x more impressive. But there are various more factors at work than Binding energy with the fact that huge explosions energy discharges like how Surfer destroys planets or Thanos blows them up require substantially more energy than that as the potential energy doesn't translate perfectly in huge energy explosions along with that there's some difference between simply unbinding the planet and shattering it to tiny bits and pieces that spread throughout space. Planet-busting now translates to values like 3 x 10^33 joules (1,2)....Now, let's compare Gorr's feat with planet busting side by side:

The Thorforce blast only requires slightly more energy than planet busting JUST as I said it would earlier and Thanos already put down characters with that level of durability. But lemme address some things..Yes, at FTL the energy should be infinite in some sense. But what this calculators did is neglect the nature of how LS-FTL works and simply give you the figures otherwise. Unless you believe all feats in fiction of getting sent at such speeds are bullshit infinite durability then this should work. There are admittedly some other factors like crashing hard enough to create 1 small country sized crater but it's irrelevant in the scales we're talking about here. And whilst I know many are wary of calcs, Kev forced my hand into doing this as he was hyping up the feat to absurd lengths based off weird comparisons with Superman and whatever. I actually talked about this with Kev so he gets the chance to argue against it but he disagrees so take it how you will dear Voters.

I don't think he can. This is literally DB Power scaling kind of stuff. Adam one-shotted Quasar and Surfer, but Thanos didn't and never has despite the fact he's fought them both several times. And as you well know, I fully believe Adam has better damage output then Thanos and that version in particular showed energy abilities that Thanos has never had. If you wanted to make an argument that Thanos could one-shot Surfer, the instance with his Astral Form in Surfer vol 3 would've been better evidence, but even that wasn't a one-shot.

You seemed to be pretty interested in those absolutes when discussing Gorr's durability. But I think you are focusing waaay to much on just general "tier" instead of what each character means.

This isn't an actual counterargument. Thanos has never really blasted Wendell and Norrin for you to say he's never been capable of that - All I'm saying is that his energy projection nourished Warlock to standard power levels that he was powerful enough to do things like oneshot high heralds. Your counter comes down to things like, "BUT I BELIEVE ADAM IS MORE POWERFUL!" with nothing backing you up. But since you were so kindly to reference that instance, his astral form was actually before his amp under the hands of Mistress Death and even then he blasted him so hard that Surfer was ragdolled in excruciating pain and effectively incapacitated all during Silver Surfer Vol.3 #34:

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Silver Surfer planet busts whilst no selling the planetary explosions just to demonstrate his power and has several showings where he isn't affected by Planet-Busting+ attacks like the Supernova instances you've confirmed to be on that level earlier. His energy durability is absurd and on the same level as Gorr yet Thanos messes him up pretty easily. Then there's completely incinerating Canceverse Hulk when Banner survived planet busting attacks which you strangely glossed over...Thanos casually destroys characters with Planet level durability, your feats aren't near close enough here.

Legit impressive, but I don't think remotely close enough to put down Gorr

Those 6 pages were like maybe, maybe 30 seconds of fighting(that's a big stretch) in universe, it wasn't a lot.

... Come on dude. I know I've used this in the past, but this is obviously a massive outlier for Thanos. I mean look at the characters you listed, Odin, Walker, Tyrant, all of those characters were clearly more powerful then Thanos(bar Tyrant) yet couldn't do this, and if Thanos has a weak point it's his damage output. So you're telling me not only does Thanos hit some much harder then these people that he can Ko himself, not even kill himself, but literally explode himself. Only if you take the In Betweener feat at absolute face value does another of his feats come within miles of this.

You're pretty much just glossing over everything without properly addressing the feats in question and why they're not enough to put down Gorr or making claims without properly backing them up. Classic Drax was on planetary levels and has multiple planet busting feats along with highest ends involving tanking an actual supernova after ripping apart it's core and you know all this so Thanos oneshotting Drax with 1 casual beam in his weakest incarnation is more than enough to put down Gorr...lnfinity was well above 30 seconds. All this happened before Thor returned:

That's easily over 1 minute and Thanos oneshotted him with eyebeams. Massive directed energy discharges sustained for multiple seconds are wayy more powerful than that. As for Thanos killing himself....Why are you making claims on things I never said? I said I see this showing as concentrating all his might into both sides of his head to ultimately waste himself off. Is it ludicrously impressive? Sure. But it doesn't put him above Odin, Death God Walker or Tyrant given the circumstances of how he accomplished the showing - at best it's Large-Planet+ level feat based off Thanos no selling Gas Giant explosions. Pretty decently consistent with how he casually oneshots High Heralds with Planet Busting level durability and so the type of power he can muster when he unloads. In fact, that you had to label it an outlier makes it easy to believe such power output can kill Gorr.

2.0 | The Necrosword

Fair enough on the survival part, but how about the fact that Thor didn't seem to be too hurt by it? But even if we assume it can just one-shot the summons, Thanos still has to do it, and that leaves him open to being chopped up by Gorr.

Hickman gave the impression that Thanos was pretty much ending the fight but that's driving away from the point instead of addressing the argument - Those summons are literally featless and were getting oneshotted by Thor whereas Thanos was messing up the Avengers. And Thanos discharging his energy projection from all sides is going to leave him open to getting chopped up by Gorr? How would that even happen?? In Cosmic Powers #1, Thanos slaughtered hundreds of the Universe's Deadliest mercenaries when some of them even had weapons that were capable of cutting him so this argument is nonsensical and ultimately baseless as Thanos can indeed note where Gorr is and keep track of him with the almighty skill of situational awareness.

Just quit the argument that Gorr is going to chop up and decapitate Thanos like nothing. Based on what? Weakass constructs that will do nothing? Gorr isn't some hotshot tactician who's going to perfectly place Summons and turn the tables on Thanos, he's some bloodlusted sad sack of shit who has toyed with his prey whereas Thanos is actually fairly skilled, extremely intelligent and has his own advantages himself like Energy Projection and Shields. Like, do you seriously expect Gorr to just come up and decapitate Thanos with no issue? That's asinine.

Considering he was in a fight while he did it, I think that'd be pretty casual. And I mean you say he's not just casually star level, but that'd still put him waaaaay above say large planet level, where a lot of your scaling and feats seem to stack up (like I'd probably put PG Thor around here). I never said that he did absorb it. With Gorr, his power is literally the physical necrosword, if he can stretch it to cover the Sun, that means he has a sun's worth of power in the Necrosword that he can concentrate into different objects. So he can concentrate a Sun's worth of power into a blade of Necrosword and cut Thanos with it.

Couple things:

1. Just look at the panel. The Necrosword was spreading very erratically throughout the Sun that hints he was simply fighting the Thors through the star and spreading it as he went through. There's no evidence he overtook the Sun in it's entirety or anywhere near close. He covered large chunks of the Sun's surfaces - that's all he accomplished.
2. I don't understand the argument that because he has Sun's worth of Necrosword with him (which he doesn't) that he then has that level of power. What are the exact properties of the Necrosword? What kind of power are you referring to specifically? How does contributing and maintaining that much of the Necrosubstance in the Sword translate to Star level power? Stars give out intense heat and pressure so if you condense the Sun in 1 attack it's Star level, but saying that having Sun's worth of the substance means you have Sun's worth of power makes no sense whatsoever.

I never interpreted the Necrosword this way so this is just really strange. You even initially argued this relates to Gorr's physical level yet later conceded the physical advantage. Is it because Sun's worth of power doesn't translate to Sun-level strength? Because that'd be right of you as it doesn't.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the absorbtion stuff, the Necrosword or Gorr have never shown absorbtion powers, ever. You can literally see the Necrosword peeking out of the Black hole, so it seems a lot more likely that the Necrosword just overpowered the gravititational pull of the Black Hole and took it over. Yeah, it's pretty clear what happened off panel. It overpowered and took over the black hole. I'm not sure how that's sketchy, especially since the Necrosword doesn't have absorption powers beyond absorbing living hosts maybe? And as for the sword, what I'm saying is that Gorr can take the overall power of the Necrosword and concentrate a lot of it into a blade that will easily cut through Thanos

When did I say absorption powers? I'm referring to the standard definition of absorption wherein something is soaked up in another substance. That's all that happened in your scans and how you explained them - the Necrosword simply spread itself throughout the Sun and the Black Hole. Your only argument that the Necrosword overpowered the Black Hole instead of just tanking the effects then covering the thing is because it was peeking out? Seriously? Old King Thor had to throw Mjolnir to clear pathways deep into the Necrosword absorbed Black hole and then swim until he found the Sword at the center, it wasn't peeking out..

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I say this again, I don't understand how the Sword could have overpowered the Black Hole given it's an actual freaking Sword. How could it even exert the strength like that? It seems clear from my perspective that the Necrosword was pulled in the center and just chilled there as it spread throughout. But I don't think Aaron put that much thought into it in the first place so this seems ambiguous to use as an actual relevant feat.

For what it's worth that wasn't a natural black hole, but artificial so possibly not adhering to the same collapsed star rule, but either way, the Necrosword didn't just sit in the black hole, being pushed down by it's gravity with durability, it actively overtook it and proved itself stronger.

I don't see how this is unquantifiable, he overpowered a black hole, what about that is matter manip resistance? Sure I probably put too much of my argument on this when I didn't need to, just casually cutting OKT is enough, but I wanted to explain what I thought of Gorr's power and the Necrosword.

I don't understand where the belief that it overpowered the Black hole came from or how the Black hole was artificial but Norrin's feat literally had the collapsed Star explanation specifically narrated as the Writer was trying to imply how powerful the forces at play were and that the Heralds were fighting unaffected. I find this to be nitpicking from your side and I called you out on it last post yet you repeat this mistake over and over again.

Regarding my thoughts on Black Hole feats - you haven't countered anything here about their nature and that the specifics of the feat are required to ascertain it's impressiveness. But I'll oblige with your request on the resistances and say that Black Holes literally distort spacetime in the sense that at it's singularity the curvature of space-time becomes infinite so that it affects time and space in very significant ways and sorta absorbs the matter into it's compacted density.

3.0 | Everything else

I'd like to start by saying I think you've twisted this quite a bit. I started by saying because OKT did a feat I think quite out of the range of normal Thor and the OF amps Thor in all ways, it's logical to think his physicals would be several times better then Thor. That's it, and you equivocated that to Panels of Thanos being compared to other characters and panels of him doing acts that didn't happen because it was all "intent". I don't think that's fair at all, I don't even think the instances you posted are as valid as Gorr killing an Elder God because you know, that actually happened(which he did fly toward the big healthy one, but even assuming it was one of the disgusting infants, it was still packing that kind of power).

As for the lightning instances, really only the Cho one is probably valid(B&T and Injury for the other two), but I don't see how that debunks my point, this is the amp of the Odin-Force which makes Thor stronger in all aspects canonically.

No, you've attempted to compare Old King Thor's power level to Thanos based off the Thorforce blast then proceeded to state that he was intended to be Thanos-level by implication and so I toyed with that argumentation. But now you've chosen to flip-flop with your arguments and that's the third time you've moved the goalposts throughout this debate. If that OKT is solidly more powerful than normal 616 Thor is what you wanted to say then you should have argued as such in the beginning or just retracted yourself in the second post but the fact remains you went through implication and intention to say he's Thanos level so I had to deal with that.

It debunks the point that the Thorforce blast scales off to his physicals. That's what you've been hinging on for Old King Thor and you've tried to defend that just because Thor is equally about energy projection as much as physicality. But if Thor in general gets oneshotted by his own lightning blasts then it's obvious that doesn't necessarily translate as you thought it does (and Warrior's Madness doesn't amp lightning powers by the way). All you're left with now is being more powerful than normal Thor by an unquantifiable amount...It's like you're unconsciously conceding on multiple fronts.

No, it's not at all similar. I'm making a reasonable assertion that because OKT had an amp to everything that made him do something a couple of times beyond normal Thor, it would apply to his durability as well. That's it.

Reasonable assertion based on what??! OKT used Thorforce blasts...Normal 616 Thor isn't capable of that ability to begin as he hasn't adopted the Odinforce yet. Old King Thor lacks showings to backup his power level - Being more powerful than normal Thor by an unknown amount (twice as much? more?) isn't enough to put him on the physical level of Thanos.

I really think the lack of blood is just an artistic choice. Blood has never been a real factor in deciding how much damage was done in comics. All it takes to see who got it worse is that Logan was literally embedded in Thanos and barely broke Thor's skin. The difference between slash and stab is not that much, and even if it was there's the fact that OKT is that much more durable then Thor and Gorr cut through both way easier then Wolverine did with Thor. Like I don't understand, Wolverine easily cuts into Thanos, struggles with Thor, but Gorr casually cuts through Thor at his absolute weakest incarnation(like Gorr was mega weak), but will struggle with Thanos?

Blood is an artistic choice when it comes to punches but not when it's literal stabbing and Gorr cut through Young Thor when he wasn't at his Prime. I'm not going to respond to the rest of this, all you're doing is repeating the exact same shit over and over again without refuting the logical reasoning I provided to say why I find the comparison that valid for my purposes. Logan with 2 direct stabs giving it his all and extra momentum barely pierced Thanos and ultimately accomplished nothing whereas he casually bloodied and slashed Thor - that's the argument and you've failed to address it. Your arguments with the Star to Black hole level stabbing make no sense and otherwise Thanos is way more durable than the Thors on top of casually resisting Atom splitting attacks.

And all those other times he was fighting in a crowd and didn't use it? Avengers Annual #7, Quasar #38, Warlock #11 for a few examples. Even his few other AoE instances like with the Punishers isn't at all like in Infinity or as effective. And you can't just dismiss all the showings you don't like about Thanos, like Hickman's Thanos was just as out of character as Bendis's so why can't I say Hickman's Thanos is PIS and he doesn't AoE attack like that normally.

Well I'll be glad to know how Thanos's intelligence is going to stop the Maggots from eating him from the inside out while Gorr is ready to chop his head off(the maggots are on his inside, can't just be blasted off, and if they are once again gives Gorr time to chop Thanos's head off). Just saying "intelligence" is not a counter to one of Gorr's moves

In Avengers Annual #7, Thanos never fought multiple opponents at once and he wouldn't discharge energy projection from all sides given that would involve destroying the Soul Gem weapon his plan hinged on. In Quasar #38, the fight with Hercules/Masterson Thor was off panel and all we see is effortlessly smacking Professor Hulk and Thing into each other just because he's that strong. And in Warlock #11, he would have hurt his teammate Warlock and he was busy thinking of the Magus's scheme. All these instances are contextual and flat out useless - His other AoE instances are just as effective anyways. Hickman's Thanos was his own interpretation of the character but he respected his power levels and had him stomp the Avengers along with tanking Black Bolt's biggest shout. Bendis had him get clobbered by the Thing and stomped on by the Avengers (including Iron Fist and Luke Cage)....

You gloss over the actual argument and ramble on other shit, some kind of trend with you throughout the debate. My argument was simply referring to the fact Thanos is extremely intelligent and competent, at least enough that he'd figure out the simplistic tactic of unleashing energy from everywhere and incinerating the Maggots. You were weirdly skeptical about it and started talking about Out of Character tactics or whatever I felt I had to enforce what I was saying.

Yeah he was so weak because he just got beat in the fight I was talking about? How is that supposed to support he was worn out before the Black Beserkers overtook him. Even ignoring the Thor-Force, he still had the Odin-Sword and Destroyer Arm which would give him better damage output then Thanos and he still got overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

Few things: 1) Gorr literally never utilized that many Summons against an opponent. He swarmed Asgard with Black Berserkers and they were able to defeat OKT because there were so many that were capable of cutting him but he has never shown that he can create that many and actually use them at once. 2) OdinSword and Destroyer Arm don't offer anything new, he was already capable of oneshotting the Black Berserkers. They do make the job easier for him but it doesn't give him the power of the Thorforce that made him more powerful than Thor in general - like he was literally normal Thor level in physicals when the Berserkers swarmed him.

Because like everything else Gorr does he can allocate more or less power to each thing the Necrosword does. Hence why the first Black Beserker Thor meets takes him hours to defeat and the Serpent was so much more powerful then the Black Beserkers, just 3-4 legit Thor level Black Beserkers are going to be a problem for Thanos to deal with combined with the threat of Gorr himself.

That's the freaking point. That first Black Berserker was extremely powerful yet every single other Black Berserker was oneshotted, even when he was up against the three Thors. That Black Leviathan construct was the combined might of all the Gods he slaughtered in God of Thunder #9 for the amp - it's not something he can just easily use and form mid fight. Like, maybe he wants to maintain sufficient power levels whilst he's combating his opponents. Maybe it takes more time to form such powerful constructs and in that period he will be beaten to shit. All I know is every other combat construct he created and used was oneshotted by the Thors - saying that Gorr will form 4 Thor level Black Berserkers based off 1 construct Gorr formed across his appearances is reaching.

Debate is finished and it's open for votes. Remember guys, leave out all previous conceptions about these characters and enter the voting process unbiased. May the better debater win @kevd4wg