Rules
- In character
- Random encounter
- No knowledge
- Full gear
- Neutral battleground
@the_hajduk: I missed the tag in the CaV thread. Just noticed this. Nice!
I don’t care who goes first. I’ve got to type something up for a CaV with Owie before I get to this though.
So the reason this struck me as a great battle is because the TMNT are basically just BOWs when you think about it.
For those who don't know, BOW stands for Bio-Organic Weapon, a living weapon or super soldier created through viral experimentation. The Umbrella Corporation and its successors artificially engineered numerous types of BOWs for military application, and these BOWs are the grotesque mutants which serve as the various enemies across the Resident Evil series.
The TMNT, Splinter, and many of their villains are all animals who were exposed to a mutagen, and transformed into superhuman warriors. The TMNT specifically were created from turtles, and if we take that sentence and just replace the word "turtle" with "reptilian DNA cocktail," we would be describing the hunters.
The four Turtles are certainly smarter than hunters, but hunters have the same superhuman reflexes, speed, strength, and resilience as the Turtles do. Physically speaking, they're almost perfectly analogous. And hunters also have the giant, razor sharp claws to match their proverbial killer instinct.
Hunters don't have any kind of martial arts training of course, but the basic fighting patterns are the same. Like BOWs, the Turtles don't have any range capacity whatsoever. So they are going to fight by using stealth and dodging bullets, with the hopes of getting close enough to eviscerate, because melee is their advantage.
The hunters are just as enhanced as the Turtles, or even more so in some aspects.
So I'm just saying, it's certainly advantageous that every member of my team has ample experience fighting against this exact same enemy type. This is literally what they've spent years or even decades specifically training for. They need no time to adapt or improvise, because they automatically know the right way to operate and all the right tactics to use against enemies just like the Turtles, the instant they lay eyes on them. Having effectively spent years preparing for just this kind of battle, it is unlikely that the RE survivors will fail.
The biggest difference I see between the Turtles and hunters is actually durability and regen. Correct me if I am wrong but the Turtles have no resistance against bullets. Hunters all have rough hides that make them all miniature versions of Killer Croc, it might sometimes take as many as three point-blank shotgun blasts to their soft bellies just to kill one. The rest of their bodies are even tougher, and anything smaller caliber like a handgun is all but useless.
So hunters aren't as skilled as the Turtles, but they are still highly avoidant against bullets, and it actually takes many bullets just to kill one of them. So every time an RE survivor has fought a hunter, they needed to tag it multiple times before getting hit even once in return. The Turtles, technically, can all be dropped after the first bullet, as long as it is perfectly placed. And RE characters specialize in finding and targeting that one, specific weak point in every enemy.
This is a huge advantage to my team. Every single one of them is a marksman trained to the highest level... well, most of them are actually markswoman.
Claire Redfield, the sister of BSAA founder Chris Redfield. Claire was trained personally by him and is also the highest trained member of TerraSave (which is filled with former military tough guys). She is a veteran survivor and easily one of the most elite fighters in the world.
Ada Wong, an international superspy and secret agent, clearly the best operator in the world of hired guns and mercenaries. Her training is even more specialized than Claire's.
But most of all is my Leonardo-equivalent. The most overall experienced, skilled, mature, and strongest member of my team. BSAA founder, Jill Valentine.
Jill is one of the original protagonists of Resident Evil. She's been fighting BOWs, since before they were called BOWs, and she will be my MVP here.
Jill served in the U.S. Army as a young woman and quickly earned the attention of Delta Force, which is the U.S. military's primary counterterrorism unit, right next to the Navy's SEAL Team Six. Despite the fact that this was at a time when Delta Force wasn't even allowed to accept female recruits, Jill Valentine was made into a special exception. It was in Delta Force that she received some of the best weapons and battle training the U.S. military has to offer.
Afterwards she was recruited by STARS, which is another Special Forces unit run secretly by Umbrella themselves. STARS is a collection of military veterans and weapons specialists, the best of the best gathered by Umbrella, for the purpose of being pit against their BOWs and testing their combat data. Everybody in STARS was outclassed and wiped out by the artificially engineered living weapons, except for four survivors, Jill being among them.
After that Jill went on to become a founding member of the BSAA, an organization dedicated to fighting BOWs, and the BSAA is by far more elite and powerful than any real life military organization. In the whole organization, Jill is still pretty much the second best soldier behind Chris.
And finally, Jill's most recent batch of training and experience was when she was mind controlled by Wesker into basically being his personal assassin. Jill became even more skilled under Wesker's training.
I'd like to see if any of the Turtles have ever gone up against any markswoman (or man) of this caliber.
That just leaves Jake, the son of Albert Wesker. Jake is certainly a world-class weapons expert on par with anyone in this thread, having grown up as a mercenary. But his primary asset in this battle will be hand-to-hand combat. He is the only member of my team who I am confident could go at Leonardo himself, and stick it to him while completely emptyhanded.
@the_hajduk: Finished my post with Owie, so next time I get a chance to sit down with my laptop for more then 2 minutes, I'll be working on this. I think this should be interesting, based on what you have so far. There are a lot more comparisons between RE and IDW's TMNT then I realized before thinking about it while reading your post, mostly based on the villains both franchises fight.
@the_hajduk: Finished my post with Owie, so next time I get a chance to sit down with my laptop for more then 2 minutes, I'll be working on this. I think this should be interesting, based on what you have so far. There are a lot more comparisons between RE and IDW's TMNT then I realized before thinking about it while reading your post, mostly based on the villains both franchises fight.
Letting you know that I edited my post, switched some things around and added a more complete strategy with more information for all four of my characters.
@tparks: @the_hajduk: Assuming Nick doesn't abandon this, do tag me for votes gentlemen ;)
@tparks: Bump!!!
So the reason this struck me as a great battle is because the TMNT are basically just BOWs when you think about it.
For those who don't know, BOW stands for Bio-Organic Weapon, a living weapon or super soldier created through viral experimentation. The Umbrella Corporation and its successors artificially engineered numerous types of BOWs for military application, and these BOWs are the grotesque mutants which serve as the various enemies across the Resident Evil series.
I like this comparison as far as a theme for the battle, but I do think you will be hard pressed to pin down any specific BOW that quite captures similarities to the Turtles, besides being physically impressive. Great post on the Hunters by the way.
But the human factor of the turtles, and the skill factor, set the turtles as leaps and bounds beyond any Hunter. I'll give the Hunter's better bullet durability though, as they do survive more then one shot of RE guns, which I have stated on CV many times, that RE guns tend to be much more damaging then any other media's portrayals of similar guns. I won't try to argue the turtle's tanking any bullets in this (besides arguably their shells).
Anyways, I should really stop talking about how powerful RE stuff is now, before I lose this CaV on my own.
The big difference is the human and skill factor of the turtles. The reason I add the human factor in, is because the turtles are actually human (kinda), which sets the IDW turtles apart from any other version. It's all told through their origin story. To understand just how skilled the turtles actually are, you really need to know their origin story and how it ties into their skill. I don't think scans alone provide the right context behind it. Unfortunately, the IDW turtles have the deepest origin story of possibly any other comicbook character I've ever read. I'll do my best to give the cliffnotes version. And there will be huge spoilers to anyone who plans to read this series.
...in Feudal Japan, there was a man named Hamato Yoshi. He was a member of the Foot Clan, although the Foot Clan at that time consisted of ninja who fought for honor, not personal power like you'll see centuries later. Hamato Yoshi had a wife, and four children. He also had a rival in the Foot Clan, named Oroku Saki, who coveted Yohi's wife.
A bunch of stuff happens (remember I'm trying to keep this short), and Saki uses his unparalleled ninja skills to take over the Foot Clan. While he's at it, he decides to go take revenge on his rival Yoshi, and has his wife and children killed. Yoshi is able to make his way home in time to save his four children, but he did not save his wife. Yoshi wanted to seek revenge, but his wife made him promise her, on her deathbed, that he would protect his sons, so he fled into the mountains with his sons, and began to train them so they could one day become skilled enough warriors that they could defeat Saki.
Unfortunately, he didn't have enough time, and Saki tracks the family down, and forces Yoshi to watch as his children are killed, before being killed himself.
Fast forward several centuries to Stockgen labs in New York. Stockgen is doing some shady experiments and animal testing. Included in those animals, are 4 turtles, and an extremely intelligent rat. The Foot Clan, now in modern day New York, attacks Stockgen labs seeking a means to bring their legendary master back. Amidst the chaos of the attack, the four turtles and the rat, are flung into an alley, and are covered in ooze, along with an alley cat that happened by. The cat attacks the turtles hoping to make a meal out of them, but the rat fights off the cat, but not before it is able to run off with one of the turtles.
The ooze transforms all of these animals into humanoids. The rat becomes Master Splinter, and the three remaining turtles become Leonardo, Donatello, and Michelangelo. Splinter immediately begins training the humanoid turtles, so they can use their skills to track down their missing brother, Raphael, who was captured by the alley cat, who has now become Old Hob.
After a year of searching and fighting, the family eventually finds Raph, fights off Old Hob, and the family is reunited. Splinter will later reveal to them, that they are all the reincarnations of the murdered family from Feudal Japan, brought back by the dying prayers of Hamto Yoshi.
And now that the family is reunited, Splinter pushes the training of the turtles even harder. And Raphael, who had spent a year with absolutely no training whatsoever, just a bunch of street brawls for his combat experience, picks up on the training instantly, and is able to beat his other brothers in a 1v3 sparring match, while even flooring Leo at the end:
Raph has no business being as skilled as he is, as explained in the dialogue of this next scan:
Donatello: "It's true Raph -- You're really picking this up fast. You've come a long way in just one month of training with us."
Raphael: "Thanks, guy. It's weird... Like my body already knows what to do, you know? Um... That probably sounds totally whack, huh?"
Leonardo: "Not at all. Matter of Fact, it was the same for us. It's like were just fine-tuning something we already learned."
Michelango: "Yeah, and Master Splinter makes damn sure we're "'fine tunin'" it from dawn to dusk every single day."
The reason Raphael, and all of the turtles as shown in that scan, were all able to instantly become skilled ninjas, is because reincarnation in the IDW universe has all of the past skills of the former life, transferred into the new bodies. And these already trained ninjas, just happen to get new bodies that are superhuman mutant turtles. We see these talents mostly show up in fighting skills, but Mikey is even able to read and speak Japanese because of his past life, and he gives a nice description of how reincarnation works for IDW:
Michelangel: "Dude, it's reincarnation -- It totally makes sense! Way I see it, it's just like playing video games. I can be a superhero plumber or a robot pilot in a game, but I'm still myself behind the controls... With this it's like my soul is playing the game, and it just switched up between a little kid in Japan and a turtle in New York."
But even though they are already trained from day zero, Splinter is pushing their training from dusk to dawn every single day, as Mikey pointed out after Raph's training. The reason for this, is because Splinter knew that his ancient enemy, Oroku Saki, would one day hunt them down. How is it possible that a man who lived centuries ago could come after the turtles?
We need to rewind now. War far back, over a thousand years. Much further back then when we met the human versions of the turtles in Feudal Japan. There is a man named Takeshi Tatsuo.
As the narration says, this man was so dangerous, that a trap was laid for him in the mountains, and he was ambushed by an entire legion of samurai. Tatsuo then proceeds to solo an entire army down to the last man:
He's an old man though, and he does get injured by the last warrior he defeats. His skills are noticed by a cosmic witch, Kitsune, who heals him of his wounds, and grants him eternal life with Utrom Ooze, the same ooze that would later create the turtles and all the other mutants. Tatsuo lives for 100 more years, as the most dangerous man in the world. He is eventually tricked and killed, but only his body is killed.
Tatsuo reincanrates as Oroku Saki, Splinter's old rival:
At this moment, Oroku Saki, gains eternal life, and lives on for centuries, as the most dangerous man in existence during those times. He even goes onto to solo another army, this time being the entire Mongol Horde:
Saki eventually puts himself into a casket, covers himself in ooze, so he can be awakened at a later time to rule the modern world.
When he is reborn, he is reborn stronger, and in modern times as The Shredder.
This is the man that Splinter is training his flesh and blood sons, to not only defend themselves from, but to defeat. A man who has lived and fought for centuries, and solo'd not one, but two armies.
That was a little longer then I wanted it to be, but I kept that as short as I could. Like I said, it's a really deep origin.
What's important though, is that you understand why the Turtles are so inherently skilled. Most characters on CV, people just say "well this guy is skilled, since Batman trained him for a few hours, or the League of Assassins did some stuff, yada yada yada", and we just say "cool beans", and don't care how little that means without real context. Splinter was training his sons, so they could kill Shredder and finally live as a family. He's already been forced to watch his children killed by Shredder once already, and if that isn't incentive to train his sons to the very limit possible, then I don't know what is.
And like shown in the origin, the turtles were already inherently skilled from their former lives, and now their training has been pushed to new limits by Splinter. The series has had an in-universe time-span of several years at this point. They probably aren't even teenagers anymore. That's a lot of intense training to be had. They've had all kinds of experience too, like fighting powerhouse mutants that are, IMO, more powerful then a Tyrant from RE, fighting and winning an inter-dimensional war, fighting and winning an inter-dimensional Gladiator tournament made up of the best warriors in the mult-verse, and eventually playing a significant role in the defeat of their arch-nemesis, Shredder. I'll show off feats from all of this as we go on.
So I think they are going to be much tougher to take on then a Hunter, even if the physical stat comparisons are similar.
Although, I think the Turtles might actually have a leg up on a Hunter when it comes to strength:
Yes, the Hunters are hella strong (yes, I said hella in 2018, deal with it). They've broken out of steel enclosures (I don't think I noticed that in your post that they have done this, but I do remember that from using the action button on the environment for narration in RE1. If you find that, feel free to edit it into your first post), and leap around like Spider-Man jr, but I think the turtles have them beat.
[SCAN 1] The Hunter's had their claws that helped them with breaking out of steel, but the turtles can straight up punch their way out. Granted a car door is not as thick as a steel cage in RE, but he still broke and dented the door from his punch, which would take a lot of power. Also notice how he breaks out of the ropes that had his hands tied together behind his back with shear strength.
[SCAN 2] And they can break structural wooden beams with their strikes. The ceiling collapses on the next page, so we know it is structural beams. That would be pretty much impossible to do with a sledge hammer, or at least not with a single swing, unlike Leo who can do it with his elbow and foot, both times with single strikes.
[SCAN 3] And they are even capable of pushing over this statue that is hundreds of times bigger then them. Look at the bottom of the page, to see how small the turtles were compared to the statue. There were only three of them pushing too.
But are they as durable as a Hunter?
I've already said that the turtles aren't going to be tanking any gun shots (besides arguably their shells, which I will get to in the next post), but what about close combat? I think they could even take a lot of direct hits from Jake and keep fighting without too much trouble.
[SCAN]- Leo is punched by Krang (more on him in another post, but he is a warrior of millions of years, who wears a suit of power armor) hard enough to leave a crater in the wall and keeps fighting on as seen here on the next page. Leo even takes another of these shots from Krang, and is flung into Mikey, but both of them are back fighting again without much for wear. Mikey even took another hit from Krang from the machinery he threw into him, but keeps fighting.
[SCAN] - Raph gets punched in the head by Hun (more on him later, but he's a Utrom Ooze created superhuman gang leader and muscle for Shredder). Raph dodges the next attack, that leaves a large crater in the concrete street from Hun's power. We see Raph fighting fine against two more superhuman characters, Koya and Bludgeon (more on them later too, but these two are powerhouse superhuman mutants created by Shredder) immediately after this too.
But are they as fast as a Hunter?
Hunters dodge the bullets of the RE characters. The game designs are made so they can actually do this. It's really impressive. (I'm not calling them bullet timers, but you know I have a much higher standard on bullet timing then most). But the turtles have done all kinds of dodging, that most people on CV would call them being laser-timers. I'll call them laser-dodgers, and not timers, and leave it at that. But that has to be as fast as a Hunter.
[SCAN]- Here are all of the turtles, weaving through a barrage of lasers, and even deflecting them. Mikey is fast enough to turn his nunchuks into a shield by spinning them, and then swat lasers out of the air with them as well. There are tons of scans just like this one, and I can post them for redundancy if you'd like, but I'm going to leave it here for now.
And since RE characters are known for headshots, I should mention that the turtles have a special skill that no one else but them could perform:
So like Donny said, "Sheesh! Enough with the guns alread!", because the turtles will dodge them. Please don't actually stop posting gun feats! I can't get enough awesome RE gun feats.
There is one more scan I want to show, since it relates to a feat from Chris Redfield in RE5. Remember how Chris ran down the plane as it was taking off?
Ueda, K., Anpo, Y., Takeuchi, J., Haruo, M., Yoshiaki, H., & Tsukasa, T. (2009). Resident Evil 5. Capcom.
Well Mikey has replicated this feat:
[SCAN]- Except for when he did it, the transport had already taken off. Granted, the speed is impossible to tell from the scan, but the art shows speed IMO, as he is weaving through laser fire to sprint and leap into the transport. Here are the surrounding pages for more visual context.
And if Mikey is as fast, or faster then Chris, then he should be as fast or faster then anyone on this team, right? Jill, Ada, and arguably Jake might have speed to rival Chris, but I don't think any better, or at least not enough to be very noticeable.
There is one more thing I want to talk about, and that is in regards to this statement from you:
Like BOWs, the Turtles don't have any range capacity whatsoever.
This isn't entirely true. The turtles use shurikens quite often.
OK, not really, but they do have some sort of attack from range, and they are quite accurate with them. I won't try to argue the turtles ever having a ranged advantage in this, but they also are not without options either.
FCBD 2015 - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Prelude to Vengance
Infestation 2: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Vol. 2
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Vol. 5
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Vol. 6
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Microseries
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Secret History of the Foot Clan. IDW Publishing
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Universe
Guarantee this will never be finished
@tparks: @the_hajduk: Tag me when done. this looks fun between two goofy friends of mine. I know it be worth the read.
@the_hajduk: @tparks: Get back at this you two. This could be legendary
@the_hajduk: @tparks: Get back at this you two. This could be legendary
Wow there's some great gifs here, thanks for the bump.
@the_hajduk: @tparks: Get back at this you two. This could be legendary
Tparks hasn't been online in a long time.
@jashro44: Damn that sucks. Didn’t realize I haven’t seen him in a year. He was the best of us......sleep well sweet prince. They can’t hurt you anymore.
@allstarsuperman: Yeah, I miss him.
@owie: It’s been 7 hours and 15 days....since Tparks took his love away.
@allstarsuperman: I'll never make it without my tparks, so I fill the void, I know you do the same.
The team from Resident Evil easy to mid difficult.
There's little they can do against someone who can just gun them down at any range (can't just run up to them). The turtles' best course of action, stay out of the line of sight, and do take downs. Even at that, it would be difficult.
RE team is long-ranged via by firearm. The mutants are short to mid-range with their melee weapons. Shurikens will do very little.
I could see them aim-dodging. Still, the RE characters, you would assume, has expert aim.
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