CAV: Team Uchiha (Darthjhawk) vs Team Uzumaki (Thenewguysnm1)Voting Closed: DJH Wins

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darthjhawk

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#1  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator

Welcome to this CAV! In this debate I will be going up against my friend Thenewguysnm1. This will be the first match between us and we hope its a good one for us and you all. Now since we are both fans of Naruto we decided to make a matchup of protagonists vs antagonists. We hope you enjoy the matchup!

Team Uchiha:

In this corner we have yours truly representing the Uchiha antagonists of the series:

  • Obito Uchiha (War Arc)
  • Sasuke Uchiha (EMS)
  • Madara Uchiha (War Arc: Post Revival)

Team Uzumaki:

And in this corner, we have my good friend, @thenewguysnm1, representing the Senju/Uzumaki Protagonists of the series:

  • Minato Namikaze (Non-Edo)
  • Naruto Uzumaki (BSM)
  • Hashirama Senju (Non-Edo)

Battle Rules/Conditions:

  • Morals off, but otherwise IC
  • Victory by Death, K.O, Incapacitation.
  • BFR does not count as a win.
  • Standard Gear
  • No prep, but each team has full knowledge
  • Decent teamwork
  • Team Uchiha Restrictions: No Limbo, Edo-Jinchuriki
  • Team Uzumaki Restrictions: Obito is not marked with FTG at start of fight

Location:

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For the Voters:

  • This is a CAV we ask that you please refrain from posting your opinion on who would win until it is done. Normal/funny comments are fine though.
  • Ask to be tagged if you wished to be tagged for voting.
  • Don't vote on who you think is more powerful, but on who had the better argument for their rep.
  • When giving your vote, if you could please give an explanation on why you think the person won.
  • That's all thanks for reading!

Current Voter List:

  • sladerulez
  • Kamishini
  • echostarlord117
  • Valor_175
  • john_doe_0897
  • zuriel-el
  • Helloman
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darthjhawk

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#2 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1: Thread is up, lMK how it looks and if any changes need to be made.

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#3  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

@darthjhawk: looks great will try and get my opener up in the next 24 hours but if not can u open as my laptop needs repairing

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#4  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator
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sladerulez

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Ehhh, sure.

Why not.

T4V

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T4V please.

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echostarlord117

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T4V

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T4v

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#11  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

minato namikaze

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Minato Namikaze (波風ミナト, Namikaze Minato) was the Fourth Hokage (四代目火影, Yondaime Hokage, Literally meaning: Fourth Fire Shadow) of Konohagakure. He was famous in life for his speed, leading to the moniker of Konoha's Yellow Flash (木ノ葉の黄色い閃光, Konoha no Kiiroi Senkō, English TV: Yellow Flash of the Leaf). He died during the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox's Attack, sacrificing his life to seal a part of the Nine-Tails into his newborn son, Naruto Uzumaki.

reputation

Jiraiya states that Minato "had the sort of talent you only find once in a decade" and that he was a genius:

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Shinobi from the Hidden Rock Village were ordered to flee if they ever saw Minato during the Third Shinobi World War:

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feats

Speed/flying raijin jutsu

Minato intercepts Kakashi when he was using Lightning Blade against an enemy ninja and subsequently placed a Flying Thunder God marker on the enemy ninja's foot:

He intercepts an infant Naruto before Obito can strike him, despite Obito already holding Naruto:

Even though just arriving to the battlefield, Minato quickly sets up his special kunai in order to teleport the other Hokage and allow them to erect a barrier around the Ten Tails:

Minato reacts to Ay's top speed attack in time to teleport out of the way twice:

Minato teleports away from Obito before he can Kamui him:

Minato was the first out of the four Hokages to reach the battlefield with the Ten Tails, coming all the way from Konoha:

He catches Kakashi's arm and prevents him from killing Obito:

Ay remarks that with Minato dead, he is the fastest shinobi in the world now, meaning Minato was the fastest when he was alive:

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Ninjutsu

Minato's signature jutsu, this is a teleportation technique. He uses it in tandem with his special kunai to teleport to the marking on it, manually places markers on enemies/locations, or uses it to telelport away foreign objects.

The Second Hokage, the creator of the Flying Thunder God, says that Minato is better at the jutsu than him:

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The mark of the Flying Thunder God never disappears, so once Minato places one on you, it never goes away.

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Here he teleports right behind an enemy ninja:

He teleports away an infant Naruto and removes a few explosive tags from his body:

Minato takes out 50 enemy Rock ninja by having the remaining Leaf village forces (only four of them) throw lots of his special kunai at the enemy:

Minato teleports away from Obito before he can Kamui him:

He teleports away Madara's Truth Seeking Balls all the way back to Konoha.

Rasengan

Minato's Rasengan destroys large portions of the ground after hitting Obito with it:

Minato can make Rasengans in either hand without any assistance, and his regular Rasengan is larger than the average Rasengan:

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Minato's Rasengan in Bijuu Mode:

As a reminder, just a regular Big Ball Rasengan is capable of "carving away a mountain", and the difference in size between a Big Ball Rasengan and the one Minato used is massive:

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Intelligence

Minato analyzes Kakashi's Lightning Blade after seeing it for the first time:

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Minato quickly deduces that only Madara would have the knowledge and power to figure out when the Nine Tails seal would be the weakest on Kushina, how to defeat an Anbu member, and how to get past the village barrier and the barrier around Kushina. He was right in the sense that Madara was the one who provided this information to Obito:

He then comes up with a plan to defeat Obito's jutsu:

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Shurikenjutsu

Minato uses special kunai engraved with his Flying Thunder God marking so that he can teleport to any of his kunai at will, whether they be back in the Leaf Village, with his students, or scattered around the battlefield. This kunai is stronger than regular kunai due to the fact that it's heavier and has a bigger shape:

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Minato carries multiple copies of his special kunais with him, making it easier for him to traverse around a large battlefield:

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Minato protects Kakashi from numerous kunais thrown at him:

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Minato places his kunai around the Ten Tails in order to teleport the other Hokage to those locations to erect a barrier ninjutsu:

He is able to throw multiple kunai at once:

Senjutsu

Even though he says he isn't the greatest at using Sage Mode, Minato displays just the shading around his eyes, meaning that he has mastery over it:

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Minato can mix in senjutsu into his Rasengan's:

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Jinchuuriki Transformations

Kyuubi Chakra Mode (KCM)

With the Yin half of Nine Tails sealed inside of him, Minato is able to go into Kyuubi Chakra Mode just like Naruto:

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Minato is adept at using his chakra arms, creating one for himself and allowing a lot of other Allied Shinobi ninjas to pull on others he created as well:

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this is all on minato.

naruto uzumaki

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background

Naruto Uzumaki is the protagonist for the extremely popular series, Naruto. He is a very energetic and boisterous character, often labeled a knucklehead, or Konoha's Number One Hyperactive Knuckle-headed ninja to be exact. Often deemed a failure, Naruto worked hard and trained everyday to become one of the strongest "ninja" (I use the word in the loosest way possible) in his entire verse. Now he has achieved his dreams and has become Konohagakure's 7th Hokage (or the leader of the Hidden Leaf Village for those who don't follow the series). I'm going to touch up on some of his basic techniques, his move set, and his physical attributes while also convincing you that he can indeed beat Sora. Lets start with his basics in a section I like to call the Naruto Ninja Handbook (I'm going to try to give both names of techniques so people will know terminology).

Naruto's Ninja Handbook

Shadow Clones (Kagebunshin):

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This is the very first useful technique that Naruto learns. It is actually a forbidden technique created by the 2nd Hokage. This is one of Naruto's go to techniques and he is able to casually spam thousands. Each of his clones evenly divides up his chakra and are able to function independently. However, a common misconception is that his clones have fodder level durability and while that may have been true once upon a time, that is no longer the case.

Transformation (the technique):

He is able to transform either himself of his clones into carbon copies of another person or inanimate objects. He utilizes this technique in order to take an opponent by surprise or sneak up on them.

Summoning:

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Naruto has a contract with the toads of Mount Myokubou, allowing him to summon various ginormous toads that are very adept at combat. They all have their own techniques and unique qualities that make them very useful for battles and add to Naruto's overall versatility. However, when their chakra runs out, they are reverse summoned and disappear from the battlefield completely. Naruto can, however, summon a different toad when that toad's chakra runs out.

Substitution:

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Naruto can use a technique that basically switches his body with a nearby object for misdirection. The wiki explains it better than me so:

With this technique, users replace their own body with some other object, generally with a block of wood, the moment an attack lands. This creates an optical illusion, making the enemy think the attack was successful. From this, the user can use the lapse in the enemy's attention to attack or flee from the battlefield. Explosive tags can be attached to the replacement for an added surprise. It's a basic ninjutsu even taught at the Academy, but it's a useful art that can be applied in variety of situations, as it allows for a swift getaway from danger. The technique even allows a restrained shinobi to escape capture.[2]

Rasengan:

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Naruto's signature move, the rasengan. Rasengan is to Naruto what Kamehameha is to Goku or Thunderclap is to Hulk. He has many different variations that vary in power from a building level technique to mountain range level all the way to a rasengan combination that can ravage the planet with its detonation.

It can be used to produce all different types of force/damage.

Concussive force:

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Cutting/Piercing (on a cellular level):

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Tailed Beast Ball (Bijuudama):

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These are some of Naruto's most powerful attacks. These are attacks that disintegrate on detonation. Weaker ones can easily vaporize mountains:

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Naruto can casually match six mountain busting bijuudama with just one of his own:

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Piercing/Cutting:

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He no sells a sword attack from a superhuman character in a weaker form.

Healing Factor:

Naruto healing from attacks mid battle that damaged organs (a lung by the looks of it):

Strength while in Tailed Beast Mode

Knocks 5 other Tailed Beasts back:

After Rokubi(5 Tails) bit his arm, Naruto hurls him across his body into Matatabi(2 Tails):

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He creates huge explosions that are bigger than mountains while clashing with Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo:

Pain Tolerance

Allows Roshi, the Four Tails Jinchuriki, to hit him even though he's covered in lava/molten rock, and still has the strength to use a Rasengan on him:

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Takes a kick to the face from Han(5 Tails' Jinchuriki) with almost no damage:

That should be enough on naruto for now.

hashirama senju

Hashirama Senju (千手柱間, Senju Hashirama) was a member of the famed Senju clan. He himself was hailed as the "God of Shinobi" for his unmatched ninja prowess. Hashirama sought peace for the shinobi world, and to that end founded Konohagakure with his clan, his childhood friend and rival: Madara Uchiha and the Uchiha clan. He would later become the First Hokage (初代火影, Shodai Hokage, Literally meaning:First or Founding Fire Shadow) of Konohagakure. Although he was not able to achieve peace during his lifetime, his legacy and vision for the world would continue to shape the village and the entire shinobi world even after his death.

reputation

hashirama is hailed as the God of Shinobi, one of the strongest ninjas in history:

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During the Fourth Shinobi World War, Kabuto states that there aren't any ninja on the level of Hashirama anymore:

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Madara himself states that the five Kage are nothing compared to Hashirama:

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Ninjutsu

Hashirama has the unique ability to use Wood Style Jutsu, and is the only user it to its full potential outside of Madara(only because Madara enhanced himself with Hashirama's cells):

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He uses Deep Forest Emergence against Hiruzen:

He uses it again to completely fill the barrier that he, Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Orochimaru were fighting in, and his wood constructs were hard enough that Hiruzen had to make a box out of Enma's adamantine staffs to protect himself:

He tricks Madara with a Wood clone:

He can create multiple Wood clones:

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Hashirama can summon a Wood Dragon capable of going toe to toe with Nine Tails, able to suck away the targets chakra, and is capable of immobilizing Eight Tails as well:

He can create another construct from his Wooden Dragon that can sprout a hand capable of catching a Bijuu Bomb:

This construct is able to withstand the effects of a Bijuu Bomb at close range:

His constructs are able to catch a sword slash from Madara's Perfect Susanoo encased around Nine Tails:

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Genjutsu

Hashirama uses Bringer of Darkness. Here's the duration of the jutsu where it's clear that everything is cast in pitch black:

Bukijutsu

Hashirama is often seen wielding a variety of weapons in battle:

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He often fought Madara with swords:

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Summoning Jutsu

Hashirama is able to summon four Rashoumon Gates, capable of deflecting/changing the trajectory of Nine Tails' Bijuu Bomb:

Sage Mode

Hashirama can enter Sage Mode:

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While in Sage Mode, Hashirama uses his Deity Gates to confine the Ten Tails:

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He once again uses the Gates on Obito:

Loading Video...

Credit to @thevivas for some of the scans.

thanks for reading

@darthjhawk i didn't go to in depth with my opener but i felt i needed to pull it out now as i may not be able to post again soon

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bump

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darthjhawk

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#14  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1: Very Nice post, should have one in the next couple of days.

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#16  Edited By Zuriel-el
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T4V

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#20 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1: I did say the next couple of days lol. Its coming, I got you.

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#21  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

.

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#22 darthjhawk  Moderator
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@darthjhawk: also may i say great opener in the team cav

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#24 darthjhawk  Moderator
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#25  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator

Alright here we go, @thenewguysnm1: I'm ready to go. Hope you like it.

The Uchiha, Shadows of the Leaf:

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Opener OST:

Well it wouldn't really be me if I didn't include a theme for my team right? As such for your listening pleasure:

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Stat Rundown:

StatsObitoSasukeMadara
Height5'75'56'0
Weight130 lbs115 lbs157 lbs
Age30's17Unknown
Abilities
  • Superhuman Physical Traits
  • Sharingan
  • Diverse Jutsu Array
  • Superhuman Physical Traits
  • Sharingan
  • Diverse Jutsu Array
  • Superhuman Physical Traits
  • Sharingan
  • Diverse Jutsu Array

General Abilities:

In this section, I will cover the general abilities shared by my team across the board.

Chakra: In essence, Chakra is the molding of the physical energy in one's body and the spiritual energy in one's mind. In the Shinobi World, Chakra is essential for ninjas in order to use their techniques. Some common techniques include molding chakra in one's feet to run on water or walk up buildings and trees. By molding chakra in other ways, techniques of a much greater scale can be produced. One's chakra is equivalent to one's life force, meaning that if a shinobi is drained of all their chakra, they die. No live shinobi has infinite amounts of chakra, but the amount of chakra varies from person to person. The amount of chakra one has is usually determined by genetics. Clans within the Shinobi World with large amounts of chakra include the Uchiha clan, the Senju clan, and the Uzumakiclan.

Ninjutsu: Literally meaning "Ninja Techniques", Ninjutsu is a general term referring to most of the techniques used by ninja. Ninjutsu can be created by molding one's chakra into physical form, most commonly through the usage of hand seals. One way ninjutsu is often created is by using nature transformation and shape manipulation, the results of which being techniques such as Rasenshuriken, Chidori, and the Great Fireball Technique.

Genjutsu: Literally meaning "Illusionary Techniques", Genjutsu is employed the same way ninjutsu is: through chakra and hand seals. However, instead of producing a physical attack, Genjutsu attacks the victim's brain, causing a disturbance in their senses and making their chakra flow irregular. Genjutsu is frequently used to create false images and pain.

Taijutsu: Literally meaning "Body Techniques", Taijutsu refers to techniques using the natural human body. Taijutsu does not require chakra. These techniques focus on the martial arts and hand to hand combat, and chakra can be used to enhance the effects of taijutsu. Taijutsu is much faster than most ninjutsu and genjutsu.

Sharingan:

The formatting of this part is a bit different from the others. That is because on another RT for Sasuke, I found a format that will be a bit cleaner and makes use of links. Apologies if this bothers you. I felt this deserved its own section as the Sharingan is a very diverse dojutsu that can make a large difference in this battle.

This is a general list of the abilities a normal Sharingan is able to use. Many of these may be Sasuke, but they apply to all of my team, since as I said, these are abilities shared by all Sharingan.

Team Introductions:

Madara Uchiha, The Savior of this World:

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In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exists, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love

Physical Capabilities, At a Glance:

I won't throw a lot of scans about Madara's physical prowess yet, since this is only a glance I don't want to throw out his best physicals at the time. Instead I'll post his opening battle vs the Shinobi Alliance from Episode 322 and Chapter 560 both aptly titled "Madara Uchiha"

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Video Breakdown:

Here we see an impressive display against the Shinobi alliance. While I do understand that they are Naruto-verse fodder, the fact that he could overwhelm with all intent and purpose an army with H2H alone until 1:25 when Temari strikes him is very impressive for a basic showing of over strength, speed and skill. Next at 1:45 and 2:07 we see Madara's Fire Style Prowess taking at least 10-12 other ninja to just barely match him and then later being overwhelmed by his fireballs.

Until 2:22 we see Madara use his h2h prowess again, not taking a single hit, while stealing weapons and using the alliance's tools against them, displaying his resourcefulness. Then Madara proceeds to dodge Gaara's sand, (which could react to the Fourth Raikage's speed and Amaterasu). Then from 2:29 we finally see a basic Susanoo from Madara capable from easily tanking Naruto's Ultra Big Ball Rasengan and blowing him away. Susanoo overwhelms the Alliance until 3:33 with the Gaara/Ohnoki combo into Naruto's Rasenshuriken where we finally see Madara's Rinnegan absorb the attack.

Finally the rest of the video/scan is dedicated to his Tengai Shinsei. This attack completely overwhelms the alliance, as they can barely stop the first one with great effort from Gaara and Ohnoki, only for them to be easily overpowered by the second meteorite. All in all, I think this is avery basic but impressive showing for Madara as alone, he overpowered the Shinobi Alliance's Fourth Division, Naruto, Ohonki, and Gaara with a combination of Physical Prowess, Doujutsu, Ninjutsu, and Susanoo.

Versatility/Jutsu; At a Glance:

While I can post manga scans for canon proof if you want, IIRC Madara's Jutsu stays canon between the manga and the anime. Here I'll post a video of his Jutsu Collection and give some info about each below.

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0:05:Wood Style Deep Forest Bloom

Taking advantage of the innate properties of Wood Releasewhich allows the user to force trees to grow on any surface at a rapid pace, the user creates a dense forest of flowering trees. During the forest's formation, the user can have the branch restrain any target(s) that tries to attack the user before the formation of the forest is complete. The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious. The user can also control where the pollen spreads so it does not affect them nor their comrades

0:25: Wood Style Deep Forest Emergence

A technique developed by Hashirama Senju, where the user forces trees to grow on any surface, easily creating a dense forest anywhere they choose. A small plant can grow into a forest in an instant. By generating chakra, the user maneuvers it as they see fit for attack and defense; and furthermore, this immensely powerful technique even allows them to capture the enemy at the same time. With their tremendous life force, the trees can pierce through earthen walls, and extend their branches at their prey in an instant.

0:45: Wood Style Wood Dragon Technique

The user creates a gigantic wooden dragon, which they can use for a multitude of purposes including restraining a target, or for offensive purposes. The dragon that the user creates can vary in terms of appearance. While both instances created a serpentine dragon, Chinese dragon, though the first had a short trunk-like nose, while the other two later created did not. It also has the ability to absorb chakra from its target, slowly rendering them unable to use techniques by biting into the target and draining them almost in a vampiric fashion

1:31 Wood Clone Technique

A clone that is created by using chakra to alter the user's own cells into vegetation. The clones can be as simple in function as a wooden dummy for use in the Body Replacement Technique or completely mobile and able to perform jutsu.[4]They have the ability to travel far from the user and are able to communicate with the original.Unlike other clone techniques, the wood clone doesn't disappear when hit and takes the damage to a certain degree. This, according to Madara Uchiha, makes it the perfect clone technique that only he with his dōjutsu was able to see through

1:45 Summoning Jutsu

While Madara will not be summoning Kurama here like in the video, he is capable of summoning the Gedo Mazo Statue, a very powerful summon in its own right.

2:25/2:50 Fire Style Majestic Destroyer Flame

The pinnacle of Uchiha Fire Release techniques,[1]chakrakneaded inside the body is converted into fire, and then expelled from the mouth and shaped into a massive fireball,[2] which covers a wide range as well. This makes the technique extremely difficult to either avoid or contain, with it requiring the combined efforts of several Water Releaseusers in order to extinguish the flames. The 2:50 version is from within Susanoo IIRC.

3:25 Fire Style Hiding in Ash

The user expels chakra-infused ash that blanket a wide area, burning anyone who comes in contact with it. The technique can also be used as a powerful deterrent from attacks as well as a highly effective smokescreen. This technique is a far more effective substitute for smoke bombs since the user doesn't need their hands to be free nor does this technique require hand seals.

3:40 Tengai Shinsei

The user weaves three hand seals simultaneously between himself and his Susanoo, in order to draw massive meteoritesfrom the upper atmosphere down towards a specific location on the ground. As they descend in succession along the same trajectory, if one of these meteorites is stopped, he can summon another one which will then collide with the first, ensuring that they crash into their intended destination.

The impact of this technique was of such enormity that it devastated a significant portion of the Fourth Division with the resulting tremors being felt as far away as the Allied Shinobi Forces' headquarters.[2] It was also able to completely destroy Madara's Susanoo, and obliterate his body. Used as more of a suicide attack than anything.

5:00 Uchiha Reflection

By utilizing the Gunbai Uchiwa to block an incoming attack, the user nullifies the effects of the attack by converting the incoming energy into Windnature transformation, which is then reflected. As this reflection of an attack occurs both suddenly and unexpectedly, the reflected attack can prove difficult for opponents to evade.

5:25 Rinnegan: Preta Path absorption

Grants the user the ability to absorb chakra in any form using the Blocking Technique Absorption Seal. Pain channelled the Preta Path through the corpse of a Kusagakureshinobi.

This ability was primarily defensive in nature as it is capable of absorbing ninjutsu-based techniques, thereby nullifying its effect. This technique can also take the form of a barrier around the user's entire body, allowing them to absorb attacks from all directions. In addition to this, the Preta Path is able to absorb chakra from an individual through physical contact.

5:48 Limbo Hengoku

Using his Rinnegan, Madara is able to project shadows of himself into the invisible world known as Limbo (輪墓, Rinbo, Literally meaning:Wheel Grave), which co-exists with the physical world but is generally impossible to detect or visually perceive. The shadows can operate independently of the user, attacking and restraining target(s) or defending the original body from harm. Madara's shadow was strong enough to repel all nine tailed beasts in a single instance, he is also capable of switching places with his shadows at any time. To the naked eye, it appeared to be the act of an invisible force. They are invulnerable to most if not all physical attacks

6:10 Chibaku Tensei

We can ignore this one as it won't matter for this fight.

6:50 Susanoo

Susanoo is a gigantic, humanoid being made of the user's chakra that surrounds them and fights on their behalf. It is the strongest ability available to those who have awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan in both eyes.When activated, Susanoo forms around the user and becomes an extension of their will, acting and attacking on their behalf. By default, Susanoo is anchored to its user and they to it: in its less developed forms it will move around with the user; in its more completed forms the user will be suspended within Susanoo, being brought with it as it moves around.This connection allows Susanoo to shield against physical attacks, one that becomes more difficult to penetrate as it is manifested more fully.

Although Susanoo is quite effective as a defence, it is able to distinguish in what it blocks. For example, the user can still perform jutsu while within Susanoo and the attacks will pass through it without complications.[4] Others can be brought within Susanoo with the user's permission,[5] and users can likewise choose to leave Susanoo's protective envelope.

With continued mastery, Susanoo can have increased defensive capabilities even at its ribcage stage, as seen when the Fourth raikage was able to crack a rib of Sasuke's Susanoo, but could not even crack Madara's.

7:10 Sage Art Inton Raiha

Again, cool but doesn't matter for this fight. We can ignore this

8:05 Izanagi

When activated, the caster removes the boundaries between reality and illusion within their personal space. To a degree this allows the user to control their state of existence, but it is normally active for only the briefest of moments.

The rest of the video we can ignore as those abilities are not in this fight.

To summarize this long section, I hope you can see that Madara has a vast array of techniques to keep anyone on their toes in this fight.

Obito Uchiha, The Masked Man:

No Caption Provided

"Look! There is nothing in my heart! I don't even feel pain!! You don't have to feel guilty, Kakashi. This windhole was opened by this hell of a world."

Physicals:

In order to give a glance at Obito's physical prowess, I wanted to display and give a breakdown of his final battle with Kakashi Hatake, as seen in Chapter 636 and Episode 375, titled "The Current Obito" and "Kakashi vs. Obito" respectively. Now while you may have already seen how I broke this down for Kakashi, this time will we view it from Obito's perspective:

Loading Video...

Video Breakdown:

Would like to provide a brief analysis of this fight in terms of Obito. From this clip, we are getting Obito's final fight against Kakashi in the Naruto series. Now up until 0:30, Obito and Kakashi are evenly matched in Genjutsu combat. Now genjutsu comes for Obito rather easily given that he was capable of controlling a prime Kurama with his genjutsu. Afterwards at 1:10 we see the pure h2h begin. Now while normalluy I would argue that Kakashi has the superior h2h skill, Obito can keep up with his comparable if not superior combat speed and strength as shown where he ragdolls Kakashi with a kick at 1:33 and craters the ground with a stomp just after.

Now at 1:40 is when the weapons come out. Obito's chakra rods vs Kakashi's Kunai. At 1:47 we see Kakashi land a cut on Obito's cheek, but pays for that with a solid counter from Obito that sends him flying. Kakashi is notably winded from this blow. Next at 1:54 we see that same wound Kakashi inflicted easily healed back up and Obito spawning another Chakra Rod, displaying his healing factor and ability to reproduce his weapons.

Next from 2:01 to 2:35 we see a weapon battle, which I would argue Obito having the edge in, Kakashi just barely keeping up until they deadlock at 2:40. Then at 2:45 we see Obito use Kakashi's hand to perform the seal for a fireball jutsu and deliver a brutal blow that does some serious damage to Kakashi.

Next at 3:09 we see a display of Obito's resourcfulness as he uses Kakashi's kunai from earlier, wraps a part of his sleeve around it and fools Kakashi with a feint, landing another serious blow on him. It should be noted that if Kakashi had not thouht ahead and planted a clone, Obito may have ended the fight here.

The rest of the video after Kakashi kicks Obito away at 3:47 is dedicated to their final clash.

That finally leads us into the finale of the fight where Obito and Kakashi impale on another through the chest, Obito with a chakra rod, and Kakashi with a Raikiri kunai, leading to Kakashi being declared the victor. Even though Obito concded the fight, it is an impressive feat considering he dominated/controlled most of it.

Versatility:

Though some may believe that Obito is a one-kamui pony, he is quite more than that. In this section I will attempt to display just how versatile Obito is.

Wood Style:

Obito's Mokuton, while not shown to be as diverse as Hashirama's or Madara's is still quite lethal:

R-L: Chapter 605 & 609

We can see from the above scans that Obito can use his wood style to impale and skewer his opponents or restrain them as seen above. Anyone will hard pressed to tank these attacks. Especially the impalement.

Chapter 605: "Hell"

Going off the Wood Style impalement, Obito is capable of creating a Mokuton tree that sprouts and spirals multiple branches that can easily impale multiple shinobi quite easily, quickly killing them. Now I recongize they are fodder, but this is also a weaker version of Obito, as such his Wood Style has grown stronger with him.

Earth Style:

AFIAK Obito has only displayed one Doton: Earth Style Hiding Like a Mole jutsu

Chapter 358:
Chapter 358: "Cornered by C-2"

This technique changes earth into fine sand by channelling chakra into it, allowing the user to dig through it like a mole. This effect goes around the body (not just the hands), making it just large enough for a person to move through. The user can pinpoint where they are, despite being underground, by sensing the magnetic forces. They can also sense what is happening on the surface and use that information to launch a surprise attack on the enemy. One can also hide deep in the ground, escaping to a depth where the enemy can't reach. It also appears that after digging, the ground can be returned to its original state, leaving no trace of where the user entered the earth.

Fire Style:

Obito, while not as many showings as say Sasuke or Itachi, has some potent Katon:

Fire Style: Blast Wave Wild Dance.

Chapter 600: "How Come until now...?

The user kneads chakra inside their body and convert it into fire, which is then expelled from the mouth in a large stream. The blaze is drawn into a spiral when the user expands their stomach, which will engulf the opponent in a massive vortex, giving them no option to escape, leaving them to suffer and burn. If needed, Kamui can be used to draw out a whirlwind, aiding the formation of the fiery spiral.

As this technique combines the use of the Sharingan and Fire Release, common characteristics of the Uchiha clan, it is indeed a formidable ninjutsu.

This technique is rather powerful in my book, due it being able to match the desrtuctive power of Madara's own Fire Style, which takes at least a dozen Water style users to barely stalemate.

Uchiha Flame Formation:

Chapter 596: "One Jutsu"

After manifesting small chakra flames on each finger of one hand, the user then slams their palm on the ground, resulting in the creation of a cylindrical barrier enveloping a location of their choosing, protecting anything contained within and burning whatever comes into contact with the barrier's exterior.

The barrier was able to stop and tank a blow from the physical might of the Eight-Tails.

Kamui:

Chapter 595: "Chaps"

In this showing that should suffice for an opener, we see Obito effectively solo KCM Naruto, Might Gai, Kakashi, and Killer Bee. It should be noted that along with it being a solid skill showing as well as use of Kamui mid-combat, none of the combatants were able to land a single blow on him until the end of the chapter.

Chapter 598: "Into Pieces"

With Kamui, Obito is also able to summon various weapons and tools from his dimension. In this showing we see Obito is able to summon chakra chains capable of suppressing Bijuu powers.

Sasuke Uchiha, Avenger of the Uchiha:

No Caption Provided

"While it's true I once desired destruction… and the only goal I had was revenge… things are different now. Because that which is destroyed can always be fixed and rebuilt. Villages freed from the clutches and employ of darkness… what I desire is to reform the entire shinobi world! What I am calling for, what I am bringing forth… that is… Revolution."

Versatility:

Loading Video...

As with Madara and Obito I will provide timestamps and explanations for his jutsu.

0:00: Fire Stye Fireball Jutsu

A technique where chakra kneaded inside the body is converted into fire and expelled from the mouth either as a massive orb of roaring flame or as a continuous flame-thrower. The scope of the attack is altered by controlling the volume of chakra that is mustered. The released flames will engulf their target, and leave a crater in the ground's surface.

The Uchiha clan uses this technique as a "coming of age" rite, and as such, is a common and favoured technique amongst them.

0:27: Fire Style Dragonflame Jutsu

The user compresses a large amount of chakra built up inside their body and changes it into a dragon head-shaped fireball. The user then skillfully manipulates that great fire, and attacks their opponent. Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. The flames have a high temperature, which can create an upward movement of air currents which in turn can give rise to thunder clouds. A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes.

This is part of the setup that Sasuke uses in order to perform his Kirin technique.

1:04: Fire Style Phoenix Flower Jutsu

This technique creates a volley of small fireballs, which are sent flying in an unpredictable manner assaulting the enemy. In addition, the flames are controlled individually with chakra, so avoiding them all is extremely difficult. Shuriken can also be concealed within the flames, creating an unexpected secondary surprise attack. Like the flames, the shuriken can be controlled with chakra. For the most part, however, this technique is used as a distraction.

1:27: Chidori

The Chidori is a high concentration of lightning chakra around the user's hand.

The Chidori was created by Kakashi Hatake after he failed to apply his lightning-nature to the Rasengan. He intended for the Chidori to be a weapon used only to protect friends and loved ones. To perform, the user first gathers lightning to their hand; the high concentration of electricity produces a sound reminiscent of many birds chirping, hence the name.The lightning chakra has been shown on occasions to damage the user's hand, peeling the skin and causing it to smoulder slightly, but this does not appear to actually be debilitating. Once the chakra is gathered, users charge at their target and thrust the Chidori into them, piercing them and typically causing fatal damage. Despite the sound it makes, the rapid speed at which it's used makes it useful for assassinations.

1:50: Chidori Senbon

This is one of many variations of the Chidori that uses shape transformation. In comparison to the standard Chidori, it further specialises in speed, by being transformed into countless sharp senbon, which are all aimed and fired at the enemy. By increasing the amount of chakra used, the number of senbon also increases proportionally. When used in tandem with the Sharingan, it becomes far more effective and deadly, as it allows the user to precisely shoot for the target's vital points.

1:57: Chidori Sharp Spear

The original Chidori gained its power by shaping it into a form sufficient for an electrical discharge and using it together with the user's own "thrust". This technique uses shape transformation to form the original Chidori into a spear or blade-shape, adapting it for mid-range attacks with a maximum range of about five metres. Its increased range means there is less of a risk to the user. It also has the advantage of being able to be used for surprise attacks and capturing.

When the enemy's body is pierced, the user can alter the spear's shape into multiple additional blades, increasing the number of wounds. The blade can also be swung in order to cut things as well as cause fatal injuries. Sasuke has shown that he can also channel this technique through his chokutō.

Because of Sasuke's mastery in kenjutsu, this technique can act as a makeshift sword if he lost his sword.

2:19: Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana

This technique allows Sasuke to channel the Chidori through his chokutō. This makes it nearly unblockable as the radiating and chirping blade can easily cut through steel. Furthermore, if an opponent is stabbed, their body goes numb due to an electrical current which causes the muscles to contract, making it impossible for the opponent to move. However, it can be countered by other weapons that also utilise Lightning Release chakra flow, such as Killer B's swords.

2:40: Chidori Current

Chidori Current is a ninjutsu that was developed by Sasuke Uchiha while he was training with Orochimaru.

By releasing the Chidori in every direction, an electrical discharge flows from the user's entire body allowing him to affect multiple enemies. When using this attack on a great number of enemies at once, it can effectively double as an instant defence. The body of the person touched by the Chidori will misinterpret the lightning nature as "electrical signals from the nerves", making its muscles contract. This causes the body to involuntarily go stiff, while at the same time receives damage. This attack can also be channelled through the ground to increase the range of the attack.

2:53: Raisen

The user launches a lightning-infused fūma shuriken at their opponent, knocking them back. The lightning trail it leaves behind is also capable of temporarily stunning their opponents. This attack can also be used mid-air, albeit at a shorter range.

3:13 Kirin

Kirin is an extremely powerful Lightning Release technique created by Sasuke Uchiha.

Sasuke draws natural lightning directly from thunder clouds to supplement the power of his strike and controls it with chakra. Unlike most techniques, which are based on the user's chakra, this one uses the natural lightning, which — as noted by Zetsu — reaches the ground in 1/1000th of a second. However, the preparation time required also decreases the technique's efficiency. If there are no active thunder clouds, the user must create them by using powerful fire techniques to produce the necessary storm conditions. With techniques such as Amaterasu, even stronger storm conditions can be made by them.Once a lightning source has been acquired, shaping and guiding the lightning to the target requires very little chakra. This technique was powerful enough to completely obliterate a small mountain and Itachi Uchiha's Susanoo.

3:33: Black Chidori (N/A Here)

While this is cool and all, I won't go into as this version of Sasuke does not have this.

3:47: Shuriken Shadow Clone Jutsu

It's a simple technique where two shuriken, like the Fūma Shuriken, are piled one onto another and thrown simultaneously. However, depending on the way it's used, it can prove its absolute efficiency. The trick is to somehow draw the enemy's attention towards the upper shuriken. Then, they have to deal with the path of the lower, unnoticed shuriken. However, if the enemy notices both shuriken, which is done when they duck down, the technique ends up losing most of its efficiency.

4:20: Genjutsu Sharingan

By establishing eye contact with a target, the Sharingan user traps them within a genjutsu which can be exploited for one of various purposes, such as: causing instantaneous — but temporary — loss of consciousness or paralysis in the target, forceful extraction of information, relaying memories, removing genjutsu placed on the target by others, and controlling a target's actions.

5:00: Amaterasu

Amaterasu produces black flames at the focal point of the user's vision. In most situations, this makes Amaterasu impossible to avoid. However, if the target can move fast enough to prevent being focused on, Amaterasu will miss them when it's cast.Once created, it can continue burning for seven days and seven nights. The flames cannot be extinguished with water or any other normal methods; only the user can put the flames out. Said to be "the fires from hell" and to burn as hot as the sun itself, Amaterasu burns any material — other flames included — until nothing but ash remains.

5:32: Inferno Style Flame Control

Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi is a technique which applies shape transformation to the black flames of Amaterasu, allowing the user to manipulate them at will. In Sasuke Uchiha's case, while Amaterasu is cast from his left eye, he uses his right eye to manipulate the flames.

The user can shape the flames in different varieties, for both offence and defence:

  • While using the ribcage state of Susanoo, the user can create a defensive encampment by manipulating the flames to cover it.
  • Converging the flames in front of the user, a barrier of spike-shaped flames can be created that not only shields him, but also pierces and burns any opponent that touches it.
  • The user can wield the flames in their hand without being incinerated, as well as manipulate them into a flexible sword which launches spike-shaped projectiles when swung.
  • The black flames can be used simultaneously with the Chidori to enhance the latter's destructive power.

5:50 Susanoo

Susanoo is a gigantic, humanoid being made of the user's chakra that surrounds them and fights on their behalf. It is the strongest ability available to those who have awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan in both eyes

Sasuke Uchiha's Susanoo was initially depicted as a dark shade of blue in the manga, though it is purple in all other medias. Because Sasuke's development has often been marked by intense feelings of hatred, his Susanoo is noted to be much darker in composition compared to Itachi's. Whereas Itachi's Susanoo appears relatively "normal", Sasuke's possesses demonic horns, a long appendage on its chin, and a malevolent grin. Its armoured form initially appears largely the same as Itachi's save for having jagged teeth around its hood. After Sasuke gains the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, however, its appearance changes, the armour's mouth taking on a beak-like shape and generally becoming ghastly-looking.

Sasuke's Susanoo has a blade in all its forms: a sabre in its developmental forms; an Ōdachi in its humanoid form, wielded with its second right hand; a pair of katana in its Complete Body form. Its primary weapon, though, is a bow, manifested on the wrist of its left arm; the bow can double as a shield, a function that becomes more visually apparent in its armoured form. Arrows are drawn from an orb held by its primary right hand and can be fired very quickly, such that only Kabuto Yakushi, while utilising Sage Mode, has been able to avoid one. The arrow's properties can be augmented, either with black flames in its armoured form or lightning in its Complete Body state.

7:12: Inferno Style Susanoo Flame Control

An application of Kagutsuchi through Susanoo, whereby Sasuke produces weapons made from the orb of black flames held in his Susanoo's secondary right hand.

  • The black flames can form a sword to be wielded by Susanoo, which is able to stab and slice through individuals or defences, incinerating whatever remains.
  • Magatama-shaped projectiles can be unleashed from the orb in volleys, knocking back and subsequently incinerating their targets.
  • This technique can produce arrows to be utilized with Susanoo's bow.

7:38: Amenotejikara (N/A here)

Again, a really cool and powerful ability, but not usable here

7:53 Chibaku Tensei (N/A here)

Same as above.

8:14: Summoning Jutsu

The Summoning Technique is a space–time ninjutsu that allows the summoner to transport animals or people across long distances instantly and uses blood as a sacrifice.

Hawks (鷹, Taka) are commonly used for communication between villages. Some of the hawks in the series are Takamaru and Tobimaru from Sunagakure, with the former being the village's fastest messenger hawk. Sasuke Uchiha also has his hawk, Garuda which he can summon for flight. However, how he acquired the contract to summon hawks is unknown.

Sasuke mainly used the snakes he summoned as shields to defend himself. He would later summon them once again during the Fourth Shinobi World War when he summoned Aoda to the battlefield.

8:34 Hidden Shadow Snake Hands

This technique allows the user to summon snakes, usually from under the sleeve, but from other parts of their body as well, as seen when Orochimaru summoned a snake from his mouth. The snakes allow the user to attack from a fair distance, and can be used to restrict the target, or bite them with their venomous fangs. The snakes can also open their mouths to extend Kusanagi-like blades.

Initial Thoughts:

Now out of respect for your opener format, I will refrain from an opening strategy, and let you start that off with your next post. This is shaping up to be a good, I feel. For now I will say the Uchihas have certain advantages:

  • Sharigan Precognition, Move reading, Genjutsu
  • Overall more versatility
  • Susanoo Defense and Offense
  • Comparable/Superior Hax with Kamui, Enton, and Rinnegan abilities

However some things I anticipate coming up in the debate:

  • Matchups, 3v3 battle
  • Kamui vs FTG
  • Uchiha Wood Style vs Senju Wood Style
  • Genjutsu vs Jinchuriki

With that, I will leave the rest of the debate to you my friend, good luck!

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#26  Edited By Thenewguysnm1
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#27 darthjhawk  Moderator
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#29  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

The specific matchups I had would be what I assumed would happen if an IC encounter did happen between the two groups. the only wild card I view in this matchup is sasuke as I feel a battle between him and naruto would be the turning point for either team.

Matchups:

Naruto vs sasuke

this is the fight i feel may decide this fight as the winner can easily go and help out there partners so without a further ado why i believe naruto beats sasuke.

1. Naruto has attacks that sasuke simply has no answer too for example....

Tailed Beast Ball (Bijuudama):

No Caption Provided

This is one of narutos strongest jutsu capable of destroying mountains nigh effortlessly

No Caption Provided

Naruto can casually match six mountain busting bijuudama with just one of his own:

No Caption Provided

2

Rasengan:

No Caption Provided

Naruto's signature move, the rasengan. Rasengan is to Naruto what Kamehameha is to Goku or Thunderclap is to Hulk. He has many different variations that vary in power from a building level technique to mountain range level all the way to a rasengan combination that can ravage the planet with its detonation.

It can be used to produce all different types of force/damage.

Concussive force:

No Caption Provided

Cutting/Piercing (on a cellular level):

Summoning:

No Caption Provided

Naruto has a contract with the toads of Mount Myokubou, allowing him to summon various ginormous toads that are very adept at combat. They all have their own techniques and unique qualities that make them very useful for battles and add to Naruto's overall versatility. However, when their chakra runs out, they are reverse summoned and disappear from the battlefield completely. Naruto can, however, summon a different toad when that toad's chakra runs out.

thats all for now on naruto vs sasuke

minato vs obito

this is also a very huge matchup and one i see my team winning

here i will state why

1. flying thunder god

Here he teleports right behind an enemy ninja:

He teleports away an infant Naruto and removes a few explosive tags from his body:

Minato takes out 50 enemy Rock ninja by having the remaining Leaf village forces (only four of them) throw lots of his special kunai at the enemy:

Minato teleports away from Obito before he can Kamui him:

He teleports away Madara's Truth Seeking Balls all the way back to Konoha village:

He dodges Ay's top speed attack on two occasions:

He manages to place a FTG marking on Killer Bee's tentacle in a short window of time:

He teleports himself, Naruto, and Sasuke away from Juubito:

In junction with the Second Hokage, Minato uses Instantaneous Flying Thunder God to switch places with Juubito and allow Naruto and Sasuke's attack to hit Juubito:

2 intelligence

He then comes up with a plan to defeat Obito's jutsu:

No Caption Provided

3. sealing jutsu

he can also use the reaper death seal which is an instant win but unfourtunately at the cost of his own life

Loading Video...

this will be all for now

Now on to the main event

No Caption Provided

this will be a very tricky match for hashirama but one i think he can definitely win imo

now as done with other matchups i will state why i beleive hashirama can win his match.

1.healing prowess

No Caption Provided

2.

Ninjutsu

Hashirama has the unique ability to use Wood Style Jutsu, and is the only user it to its full potential outside of Madara(only because Madara enhanced himself with Hashirama's cells):

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He uses Deep Forest Emergence against Hiruzen:

He uses it again to completely fill the barrier that he, Tobirama, Hiruzen, and Orochimaru were fighting in, and his wood constructs were hard enough that Hiruzen had to make a box out of Enma's adamantine staffs to protect himself:

He tricks Madara with a Wood clone:

He can create multiple Wood clones:

No Caption Provided

Hashirama can summon a Wood Dragon capable of going toe to toe with Nine Tails, able to suck away the targets chakra, and is capable of immobilizing Eight Tails as well:

He can create another construct from his Wooden Dragon that can sprout a hand capable of catching a Bijuu Bomb:

This construct is able to withstand the effects of a Bijuu Bomb at close range:

Now onto the strongest move in his arsenal its a move that dwarfed mountains

No Caption Provided
hn
hn

This construct is capable of throwing punches that can match/cancel out multiple Bijuu Bombs and remove Perfect Susanoo from around Nine Tails:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Summoning Jutsu

Hashirama is able to summon four Rashoumon Gates, capable of deflecting/changing the trajectory of Nine Tails' Bijuu Bomb:

ff

well that should be all on hashirama vs madara

now the final potential matchup

team vs team

this scenario is one that doesent ssee the teams splitting off but standing together and having what some could call a shoot out which would be them throwing there strongest moves at the oppostion which for my team would be a bb spam and the budda for hashirama i beleive this to be the most sure fire way for my team to win as they undobtedly have greater aoe than team uchiha and if my team starting likr that dosent kill them it will atleast kill sasuke which would make this a handicap match were whilst hashirama is holding off madara the kyubi jins can dogpile obito or even they could fight madara while hashirama deafeats obito this will will be even more of a sure fire win for my team if naruto lends them some chakra which was stateed by kakashi to be close to a 3 x amp

summery

my team are more durable

just as versatile

more explosive

more potent

and have a speed advantage

they also complement each others abilities well

will not be affected by any form of genjtusu

unfortunately we lack in the hax department but are superior in most categories

and are also the worst possible match for team uchiha

as reward for reading through i will leave you with this

Loading Video...

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#32 darthjhawk  Moderator
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#34 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1: I won't did you try making a new post or saving it in a pm?

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#35  Edited By Thenewguysnm1
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#37 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1: Good post, will have one up in the next couple of days.

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#39  Edited By Cosmic_Lantern

T4V.

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@thenewguysnm1: meh just don't get lazy and half ass it like yours truly. Good debate so far from both sides

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#42  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

@cosmic_lantern: cool and thanks also congrats on finally finishing your cav with GV

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#43  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator

Counters & Strategy I: Uchihas vs The World

@thenewguysnm1: Alrighty, sorry for the wait, but lets get this round going.

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"This world is full of things that don't go as you wish. The longer you live the more you realise reality is just made of pain, suffering, and emptiness… Listen… In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love."

Foreword:

Again, let me first say, great post, I figured that this would be a tough debate. The arguments you gave for the matchups were interesting and I am very excited to counter them. In this post I will be going over each matchup as you labeled them and then a team battle, along with a strategy. With that being said lets get into it.

Uchiha vs Uzumaki/Senju: Matchups

For this section I will be going over each matchup and countering the points you made for each while attempting to provide my own arguments.

Sasuke Uchiha vs Naruto Uzumaki:

this is the fight i feel may decide this fight as the winner can easily go and help out there partners so without a further ado why i believe naruto beats sasuke.

Being honest I do not see this as the deciding matchup, but rather Hashirama vs Madara being the deciding factor. However I do believe that this is my largest uphill battle. Lets get into it.

Naruto has attacks that sasuke simply has no answer too for example....

Tailed Beast Ball (Bijuudama)

Now I see what you mean here. In terms of raw attack potency, this version of Sasuke can not match blow for blow a TBB. However he does have options to get around it, even if only temporary. For example, Sasuke can temporarily suppress Kurama's chakra within Naruto as seen here:

Chapter 309: " A Conversation with the Nine-Tails!"

Now before you say this won't work because Naruto is a Perfect Jinchuriki at this point, both Naruto and Kurama have been shown as being susceptible to Genjutsu. So while they could break the genjutsu with a chakra surge, those few moments is what will make a huge difference in Sasuke taking advantage of this fight.

By temporarily suppressing Kurama, that will cut off Naruto's KCM, leaving him vulnerable to Susanoo, Chidori Variants, or even Amaterasu/Enton variants

Rasengan:

Naruto's signature move, the rasengan. Rasengan is to Naruto what Kamehameha is to Goku or Thunderclap is to Hulk. He has many different variations that vary in power from a building level technique to mountain range level all the way to a rasengan combination that can ravage the planet with its detonation.

It can be used to produce all different types of force/damage.

Now you said Sasuke has no answer to Rasengan, but we should both know that all of Naruto and Sasuke's major clashes throughout the series have come from some form of a Chidori/Rasengan clash. So I will say they are equal here as they have always shown to be. From their first clash at VOTE 1 to their final clash at VOTE 2. Sasuke can match the Rasengan variants with his own Chidori variants, be Chidori Sharp Spear, Chidori Stream, Chidori Katana, Raisen, or even combining Blaze Style with his Chidori to match raw power/versatility.

In fact I would say that Sasuke has teh edge here due to the many varied application he has given to Chidori, whereas Rasengan, aside from Rasenshuriken at its core remains the same technique but with more raw power.

Summoning:

Naruto has a contract with the toads of Mount Myokubou, allowing him to summon various ginormous toads that are very adept at combat. They all have their own techniques and unique qualities that make them very useful for battles and add to Naruto's overall versatility. However, when their chakra runs out, they are reverse summoned and disappear from the battlefield completely. Naruto can, however, summon a different toad when that toad's chakra runs out.

Now I am not sure why you say Sasuke has no answer for Naruto's summoning when he has summonings of his own, from more than one group even. Be it Snakes:

Chapter 634: "A New Trio"

This give an arguable mobility advantage over toads since the snakes can move more quickly across the ground and even constrict the toads. If those aren't enough, Sasuke even has Hawks:

Chapter 661: " The Failed World

These provide an aerial advantage that Sasuke can use to avoid Tailed Beast Balls, in case Kurama suppression does not work and help with an added mobility advantage. So I am not too sure why you stated that Sasuke has no answer to the abilities you have shown for Naruto when he can match them or get around them just fine.

Obito Uchiha vs Minato Namikaze:

this is also a very huge matchup and one i see my team winning

Well every matchup is huge as it could tip the balance either way. Tbh, I will admit that this is the hardest matchup due to Minato's speed, but Obito can still come out on top.

flying thunder god

While you didn't really give an argument as to why it matters aside from feat dumping, I think I see your point. It seems as though you are saying that while using this ability Minato will be too fast for Obito. I understand your point here. However I would have to disagree that Obito loses here seeing as how he has fought Minato before and dealt with his Jutsu.

Many of the feats you presented in your post were after Minato had already littered the battleground with his FTG kunai or had already prepared them in the village beforehand. That prep will not be happening here. This is also a significantly more powerful and experienced Obito than the one that fought Minato in the past.

With a combination of his Mokuton and Kamui, Minato does not want to get close or he will be getting absorbed or skewered by Obito, who won't have to worry about trying to capture Minato or protecting his control over Kurama here. In addition Obito can use the War Fan to counter any of Minato's Rasengans:

Chapter 594:
Chapter 594: "The Progenitor"

intelligence

He then comes up with a plan to defeat Obito's jutsu:

Again, that was against a significantly less experienced and powerful Obito than the one here. The same plan won't work twice for Minato here, when Obito has so much more to throw at him. That includes Wood Style, Kamui, the Gedou Mazou, and the War Fan.

3. sealing jutsu

he can also use the reaper death seal which is an instant win but unfourtunately at the cost of his own life

I don't think this will really be effective here. One, why can't Obito just Kamui away? Two if Minato does this and takes out Obito that leaves Naruto and Hashirama vs Madara and Sasuke which I will get into why that is a bad matchup for your team below in the Madara section.

Madara Uchiha vs Hashirama Senju:

this will be a very tricky match for hashirama but one i think he can definitely win imo

now as done with other matchups i will state why i beleive hashirama can win his match.

I actually don't think so, seeing as how this version of Hashi could only immobilize Edo-Madara with Naruto's help:

Chapter 656: "Transfer"

And even then it was not enough as Hashirama himself said that even Naruto's jutsu was not enough to take him down, as they needed someone capable of sealing him. And Madara once he revived easily destroyed Hashi's restraints.

healing prowess

I don't think that Hashirama had any real feats in this area, so I am not sure how useful bringing this up will be for you. But after Madara absorbed Hashi's senjutsu, he had arguably the best regeneration feats outside of Tsunade. Since you didn't really say much here I won't either.

Ninjutsu

Hashirama has the unique ability to use Wood Style Jutsu, and is the only user it to its full potential outside of Madara(only because Madara enhanced himself with Hashirama's cells):

Well you said it yourself. Outside of Ten Thousand Hands, Madara should be more than able of matching up to all of Hashirama's Wood Style Techniques and when he can't he always has his Susanoo:

Susanoo:

Lets go ahead and get into Complete Body/Perfect Susanoo.

First lets examine its showing from Chapter 589 starting with its scope:

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The sheer scope of Susanoo is one of the largest sized in the Naruto series. It easily dwarfs not only mountain ranges in height, but even the meteorites Madara summoned with Tengai Shinsei. The jutsu is massive and it brings increased durability and power to Madara's arsenal. Lets get into it.

As seen in Chapter 589

In its first display of power, the Perfect Susanoo takes a casual swipe in the direction of the Five Kage. Now lets break this down. Looking at the mountains the attack hits and how easily they are carved. This is not the direct attack, this is merely the shockwave that split those mountains. The air pressure from the attack sends all five of the Kage flying. As powerful as Iron Man is these are the blows that imo will deal the most damage to him, and he would not want to take too many hits from this Susanoo. Even if he is not directly hit, the air pressure should be enough to force him back, not allowing for easy counterattack. Madara even states the country maps while not as drastic as when he fought Hashirama would have to be redrawn. However that is not all for Susanoo's power.

Lets next take a look at Chapter 621:

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Here we see more of the destructive capability of Perfect Susanoo. Now Madara was aiming for Hashirama's Wood Constructs not the area around them. However still the shockwave alone of the attack devastaets the surronding landscape and mountain range, making this all the more impressive imo. However attack power isn't all that Perfect Susanoo can do here. It also has some very good durability.

Lets move forward to Chapter 629 where we see the Juubi's Tenpenchii attack and Madara's response to it:

First lets breakdown the scope of this attack. The Tenpenchii is one of the Juubi's strongest attacks. The destrcutive capability I would dare say is close to if not outright Country Level in Damage Capability.

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Now why do I think so? Well the Juubi's Tailed Beast Bomb can be felt on a country wide scale, lets look at an example. From Chapter 613:

Even when not fully charged and thrown off balance the Juubi's TBB is capable of obliterating mountain ranges and cities extremely far away from the current battleground where it was fighting the Shinobi Alliance. This was a not fully charged TBB just as a reminder. The Tenpenchii is described what happens when the Juubi accumulates its power and By interfering with the natural energy using its immeasurable amount of chakra, the Ten-Tails is able to simultaneously create a variety of natural disasters that devastate the surrounding area, with itself acting as their epicentre. The phenomena involved in this technique include: earthquakes, floods, thunderstorms, and tornadoes. These concurrent events result in a blast akin to a nuclear explosion, even forming a vast mushroom cloud.

And I as showed above Madara's regular Susanoo was able to tank this attack pretty darn well, and his Perfect Susanoo only scales to be stronger, meaning that it should be even more durable than this. But lets look at another that directly uses Perfect Susanoo shall we?

From the end of Chapter 620 into Chapter 621:

Madara's Perfect Susanoo is able to tank a Prime Kurama's full power TBB reflected back at him with Hashirama's Wood Golem. Now mind you this is Madara tanking not only a TBB but also the strength of Hashirama's Wood Style behind as well making this all the more impressive imo.

To sum this up I would say that Madara definitely has the DC and durability to match up to all of Hashi's jutsus, whose Ten Thousand hands has the only feat shown, and Madara's Susanoo has taken a more powerful attack from the Ten-Tails.

Summoning Jutsu

Hashirama is able to summon four Rashoumon Gates, capable of deflecting/changing the trajectory of Nine Tails' Bijuu Bomb:

Again not really an advantage for Hashirama here. Madara can summon the Gedou Mazou, arguably the most powerful summon in this battle:

Chapter 659: "Limbo Hengoku"

And there are no Tailed Beasts on my side, so I am not too sure why Rashomon is even relevant as I don't even see a Morals off Hashirama using it here, as he isn't fighting a Tailed Beast.

Uchiha vs Uzumaki/Senju: Team Showdown

In this section I will go through how my team would win in a straight up 3v3 team battle.

this scenario is one that doesent ssee the teams splitting off but standing together and having what some could call a shoot out.

This team matchup is actually I feel a pretty bad one for your team, and that is due to Obito being a wildcard that can remove members of your team from the fight for a time. That can be done through Kamui or Uchiha Kaenjin(Flame Formation) to seal one of your members off.

which would be them throwing there strongest moves at the oppostion which for my team would be a bb spam and the budda for hashiramai beleive this to be the most sure fire way for my team to win as they undobtedly have greater aoe than team uchiha

TBB spam would be countered by Bijuu suppression as I mentioned earlier or Madara throwing a Wood Dragon at Naruto's Kurama Avatar. In addition to this, we already know that Perfect Susanoo can tank BB easily either protecting my team or having Sasuke avoid them with his Hawks or Obito just using kamui to avoid them all.

and if my team starting likr that dosent kill them it will atleast kill sasuke which would make this a handicap match were whilst hashirama is holding off madara the kyubi jins can dogpile obito

I should have already explained how that will not kill Sasuke at all. In fact your team would end up handicapped by a few things. First Obito seals off Minato with Uchiha Flame Formation which he could not get out off easily. Then using Kamui he could either send Naruto or Hashirama to the Kamui dimension, making this a 3v1 very quickly and either of the two left could not stand up to all three of my team while your other too are incapacitated.

or even they could fight madara while hashirama deafeats obito this will will be even more of a sure fire win for my team if naruto lends them some chakra which was stateed by kakashi to be close to a 3 x amp

Except this won't be happening due to my team's strategy of divide and conquer, even of Naruto lends them chakra, the hax of my team seals the deal.

Concluding Thoughts:

my team are more durable

Unfortunately they aren't more durable at all. Perfect Susanoo is more than likely the most durable thing here along with the Gedou Mazou. Sasuke's Susanoo is nothing to laugh at either, and Obito isn't getting tagged with Kamui.

just as versatile

Not really. Your team's most versatile member is Hashirama, who can be matched and surpassed by Madara. Minato is a two trick Rasengan/FTG pony, and Naruto is Rasengan/Shadow clone/Rasengan spammer.

  • This is compared to Obito's Sharigan, Kamui, War Fan, Fire Style, Wood Style, Summoning, Sealing, Chakra Chains/Recievers.
  • Sasuke's Genjutsu, Sharingan, Susanoo, Summoning, Fire Style, and Lighting Style (Chidori and Variants)
  • Madara's Sharingan, Rinnegan, Summoning, Fire Style, Wood Style, etc

more explosive

Only through TBB, but besides that not really in my opinion.

more potent

In what way, seeing as we have the overall more powerful abilities?

and have a speed advantage

That comes by way of Minato only, who is dealt with per my team strategy.

they also complement each others abilities well

As does my team, perhaps even better with their shared dojutsu.

will not be affected by any form of genjtusu

You're going to have to show that, you didn't really in this post, unless I missed something.

unfortunately we lack in the hax department but are superior in most categories

Not really superior in most categories, and my team has the superior hax either way.

and are also the worst possible match for team uchiha

How is that when at some point, all of my characters have soloed or beaten some variation of my team? In fact Genjutsu, Rinnegan, Kamui, Gedou Mazou make this a worse matchup for your team than my own.

Overall a great debate so far, but I think I have shown that the Uchiha can and will take a majority in this matchup. However I can not wait for your next post. I am having a lot of fun with this debate. Your move, my friend.

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Thenewguysnm1

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#44  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

@darthjhawk: great post i should have my next post soon

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#45 darthjhawk  Moderator
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bump 4 votes

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#47  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

@darthjhawk: i might be a while till i can post is that alright

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#48 darthjhawk  Moderator
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#49  Edited By Noxio
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#50 darthjhawk  Moderator

@noxio: Not sure what you mean by that, I'd rather you PM me than put it in the debate thread.