No uses of PIS, ignoring Inconsistency, and no uses of filler to advance/degrade the character(s).
No telepathy or manipulating Goku and Vegeta in any way for the time being (this rule may change).
No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
No Speed-Blitzing.
Morals Off.
Win by Death, or KO.
Goku & Vegeta:
End of DBZ Versions.
Any feats are permitted from DB, DBZ & DBGT Anime/Manga. (No Movie Feats, BOTG is acceptable but no use of Super Saiyan God).
No uses of PIS, ignoring inconsistency, and no uses of filler to advance/degrade the character(s).
SSJ4 Gogeta is not permitted for the time being (this rule may change).
Access to all Super Saiyan forms except SSJ God for Goku.
No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
No Speed-Blitzing.
Morals Off.
Win by Death, or KO.
Battlefield: Earth (Abandoned + Indestructible):
Challenge a Viner:
Give at least one reason for a vote.
Do not post anything that could start an argument.
Do not post irrelevant content (Music, Death-Battle, Videos, etc).
Do not correct either of us on mistakes. It isn't needed nor wanted, but if you must, send us a P.M.
Voting System is on the debater, not necessarily the characters.
Voting shall be opened when the debate has been agreed finished by both participants, if you'd like either of us to call out your name when the voting opens, just ask.
If Surfer is having trouble, he could always send for Galactus, who would turn Goku into ash and Vegeta into nothing. Otherwise, Surfer&Thanos if the full extent of Power Cosmic is allowed (black holes, supernovas, ect)
If Surfer is having trouble, he could always send for Galactus, who would turn Goku into ash and Vegeta into nothing. Otherwise, Surfer&Thanos if the full extent of Power Cosmic is allowed (black holes, supernovas, ect)
@darkraiden: yup , anybody that pimpslaps hulk earns my fanboyism.
Anyway , lets get this started.
Alright , so first off, knowing goku and vegeta, they'll immediately start trying to pound down on their opponents. Goku and vegeta will be able to sense thanos and Sil surfur's powerlevel, meaning, from the beginning, they'll go all out. However i doubt they'll get very far seeing both thanos and silver surfur have planet+ ++ durability
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the 3rd one , thanos just smiles after he takes hits from thor who had a powergem
and for SS:
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And while goku and maybe vegeta using a full force blast could K.O surfur , that would leave him drained and leave him more open to thanos's destruction. The same goes for their their punches and kicks, while they could do some damage using full powersblows , that'd leave them drained.
So, after they take The saiyan's initial assault , Thanos and SS will well, destroy.
First off, I know my goku and vegeta calcs (( as shown in my earlier debates )) , Their durability at max is multiple planets++++, Either thanos or silver surfur could easily bypass that
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1. Blast has the force of a nucular explosion
2.Surfer generates billions of terawatts of power
3. Nearly kills all the avengers with a WARNING shot.
4-6. Blast so strong , it creats a black hole
7-8. Destroys Mephistos demon
As shown , Silver surfur should easily bypass their durability
Same for thanos
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oh yeah, he also defeats Galactu's most powerful herald, The fallen one, in one blast
And while neither would be able to one-shot them, Vegeta and goku will both be worn down quickly after having to use their full power to even try and match them.
So to summerize
In order to bypass my teams Defenses , each of theirs blasts have to be at least planet+
Both goku and vegeta will end up tiring quickly thanks to having to use full power from the beginning
In order to even bypass thanos's shields, you'll have to match the input of a nourished galactus
Once you're team tires, ( or before that ) , Thanos , or silver surfur will end up destroying them in a few hits.
I think this is good for a opening post, im not the best at it so heeey......
I'm curious. Why are Thanos and SS together? Goku and Vegeta are pretty evenly matched, power wise. SS and Thanos are on completely different levels, no? Doesn't that mean either SS or Thanos are too OP or too weak for Goku and/or Vegeta?
Alright , so first off, knowing goku and vegeta, they'll immediately start trying to pound down on their opponents. Goku and vegeta will be able to sense thanos and Sil surfur's powerlevel, meaning, from the beginning, they'll go all out. However i doubt they'll get very far seeing both thanos and silver surfur have planet+ ++ durability
And while goku and maybe vegeta using a full force blast could K.O surfur , that would leave him drained and leave him more open to thanos's destruction. The same goes for their their punches and kicks, while they could do some damage using full powersblows , that'd leave them drained.
And while neither would be able to one-shot them, Vegeta and goku will both be worn down quickly after having to use their full power to even try and match them.
Both goku and vegeta will end up tiring quickly thanks to having to use full power from the beginning
Once you're team tires, ( or before that ) , Thanos , or silver surfur will end up destroying them in a few hits.
You've stated the same points so many times here. You seem to imply the idea that Goku & Vegeta are two fighters that would attack a person such as Galactus head on. They wouldn't and now i'll explain why:
Considering the conditions. Morals are disabled so Goku & Vegeta will be doing "out of character like actions
(Example: Goku will not fight fairly. He'll utterly dominate the opponent giving them no chance to take a breather, i'm not saying that Goku would utterly dominate Thanos & SS, I was just using that as an example).
Even ignoring the conditions, Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting (I know that you know this already, but i'm just pointing it out), when he senses either of the opponent's power, he's not going to pull off a foolish move by attacking head on.
He'll fight holding back and avoiding critical blows from either to see what their strong and weak points are, then utilize his techniques & skill to his advantage when he discovers their weak points.
And even Vegeta, he lets his anger & arrogance get the best of him at times. But when severely outmatched, (Bills, Broly), he knows that attacking them head on would be an idiotic decision.
Blast has the force of a nucular explosion
Is this supposed to mean something to the Saiyans? This isn't worth taking into consideration. A nuclear explosion is nothing to Goku nor Vegeta. A nuke cannot even destroy the moon while Dragon-Ball characters have been busting moons instantly with single blasts, with PL's as little as below 200.
So yeah, Nuclear Explosions <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Goku's/Vegeta's Durablity.
In order to even bypass thanos's shields, you'll have to match the input of a nourished galactus
Not necessarily as the Silver Surfer himself has bypassed Thanos' shields and damaged him with blasts. And the Silver Surfer < Galactus.
the 3rd one , thanos just smiles after he takes hits from thor who had a powergem
Either thanos or silver surfur could easily bypass that
Surfer generates billions of terawatts of power
Nearly kills all the avengers with a WARNING shot.
Blast so strong , it creats a black hole
Destroys Mephistos demon
oh yeah, he also defeats Galactu's most powerful herald, The fallen one, in one blast
These feats are very impressive and i'll concede to the fact that both Thanos & the Silver Surfer's durablity is far superior to Goku's. The energy projection is debatable, which i'll get onto when I get to that point in my actual post.
Alright, now finally it's Goku & Vegeta's time to shine:
(NOTICE: Vegeta will have much less feats than Goku, but it's safe to assume that they both attain the same attributes from each other, as most of the feats are much earlier in DBZ, and/or Dragon Ball.So Vegeta would obviously be stronger as it is EOZ for both, he should be able to do the same as Goku had presented in the feats i'll provide. Don't get me wrong though, Vegeta will still have solo feats, but Goku will have much more).
First of all, your post contained great scans & feats for both Thanos & the Silver Surfer's durability and energy projection. However, you've left out a crucial factor here, both in which Thanos & the Surfer are at a tremendous disadvantage.
And that aspect is of course...
Speed:
To begin, I realize that the Surfer possesses traverse speed (meaningless in combat). However neither Thanos nor the SS can even hope to contend with Goku & Vegeta in combat speed. (Unless of course, you can provide feats that suggest otherwise).
Now, to present my scans for their combat speed & an instance or two of traverse speed.
Combat Speed - Incalculable, but massively FTL++
Traverse Speed - Minimally FTL
Traverse Speed:
While this necessarily does not matter in an actual fight, I may as well give an instance or two displaying the traverse speed of Goku/Vegeta. And then i'll move onto combat speed (which really is the only important speed factor in a fight):
(NOTICE: Most if not all scans will appear from right to left):
Goku Travels Namek:
While Namek's size is unquantified, it is assumed the same size or larger than Earth (I've found no proof of Namek being equal to Earth, however it is asssumed that it is and without disproof, it is safe to assume that Namek is at least equal to Earth's size.
Nevertheless, Goku traverses from one side of Namek to the other in the time-span of less than or one second. Shonen Jump article will be included for proof of him being on the opposite side:
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Vegeta & Nappa travel to the Z Fighters:
While the locations and distance of how far away Vegeta & Nappa were from the Z Fighters, it's highly assumable that they were a considerable distance away, considering the location differences (Vegeta/Nappa were in a city, Z Fighters were in a mountainous, land area).
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Alright, that's enough with traverse speed. Now onto the type of speed that is the main factor of speed in a fight:
Combat Speed:
Laser Dodging:
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Catching a Dragon-Ball:
(Dragon-Balls shoot out of orbit, and then end up in various places of Earth, all in a span of seconds. This feat alone could be argued that Goku as a Kid was already FTL, and he likely was).
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Superior Reaction/Senses:
Silver Surfer does get tagged on a regular basis (as far as i'm aware), by the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and other beings that do not possess the kind of combat speed even close to Goku & Vegeta.
Faster than Lightning:
Fights are completely invisible:
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Dodges Tien's Solar Flare Attack (FTL):
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Side-Stepping FTL Energy Beams:
Also, this feat comes from Raditz. A Saiyan with a weak power level, which just makes it more impressive.
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And to prove that the Beams are Faster than Light...
Like I stated above, the Dragon-Ball characters have been busting moons with power levels as low as 100. Which will be my next point, both Piccolo & Roshi bust the moon in less than a second, the moon explodes instantly from the impact of each blast. Busting the moons is an energy beam speed, and destructive capability feat in one:
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Phasing through attacks, (Coming from FTL Characters):
As well as phasing through the attacks, Goku also travels so fast behind Jeice and Burter that no one even notices that he had moved from one position to the next:
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Dodging at undeniably fast Speeds:
To make this feat even more substantial, the attacks came from two opponents at once:
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So yeah.. Goku and Vegeta don't have to worry about getting hit by Thanos or the Silver Surfer.
That should be it for now, i'll make another post concerning Goku and Vegeta's other attributes tomorrow. This is all I can fit in tonight, feel free to reply to me or wait until I make my next post, it's up to you.
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