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#1 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

Gokent! (The_Man_With_Questions)

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Thanos! (EmperorThanos)

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Rules:

  1. Gokent has access to Pre/New 52 Superman's feats, skills, and abilities.
  2. Gokent has access to Goku's feats, skills, abilities, and can go up to Super Saiyan 3 (beginning of BOG).
  3. Gokent's feats do not stack. Meaning if he goes Kiao-Ken times three, or something like that, it won't multiply Superman's capabilities (Ex: Superman lifted the weight of the Earth, which means Kaio-Ken times twenty makes Gokent a twenty times Earth lifter... That's a no no). However, he will have access to Goku's feats and so on while using the technique.
  4. This is Thanos at his normal power levels (no infinity gauntlet, heart of the universe, or so on).
  5. Random encounter.
  6. No battle field removal.
  7. No sun-dipping for Gokent, and fusion last forever.
  8. Morals are standard (albeit, I'll just that Gokent is willing to kill if necessary since he's part Goku).
  9. Win by death, knock, or incapacitating the opponent.

Location:

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*Read!!!*

This is a CaV. That stands for "Challenge a Viner." These debates between two people, and two people only. Meaning that you aren't allowed to comment on who you think wins (ergo, keep all off hand comments regarding the debate to yourself until the debates ended). However, that's not how CaVs work anyway. You're suppose to comment on who you think the superior debater is.

If you'd like to be tagged for votes, then post "T4V".

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#2 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Vertigo- (17683 posts) - - Show Bio

this is gonna be.....interesting.

T4V

Online
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#4 Posted by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by incursion2 (1884 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V This looks fun

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#6 Posted by Cooldudeachyut (501 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it should be mentioned in the rules that fusion has no time limit. Just saying.

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#7 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8728 posts) - - Show Bio

Kalkarot*

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#8 Edited by xOmniaParatusx (136 posts) - - Show Bio

Facepalm

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#9 Posted by DivineDebater (215 posts) - - Show Bio

Pardon, but what's a CaV?

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#10 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2551 posts) - - Show Bio

waiting for the inevitable "Thanos TP I autowin trololol" argument to be used with high anticipation.

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#11 Posted by Goldchamp101 (8760 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#12 Edited by JustSomeRandomKid (5149 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

waiting for the inevitable "Thanos TP I autowin trololol" argument to be used with high anticipation.

It's not even an argument. It's a fact. The OP failed to ban TP like other threads have done.

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#14 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2551 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3 said:
@crushyourenemies said:

waiting for the inevitable "Thanos TP I autowin trololol" argument to be used with high anticipation.

It's not even an argument. It's a fact. The OP failed to ban TP like other threads have done.

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#15 Posted by KingZod (3912 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and @the_man_with_questions Dude I think it should be Kalkarot instead of Gokent, can't remember where I saw the nae online but I think it sounds cool lol XD

Kneel Before Zod

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#16 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Quick question. Apparently Thanos has an undead army of some sort. Do you intend on using that? Because I'd like for this to strictly be a battle between these characters.

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#17 Posted by TheSaiyanMan (1745 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#18 Posted by huthimamwa (2382 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. T4V please. This thing's gonna be a goddamn fiasco and I'm going to enjoy every second of it.

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#19 Posted by Goldchamp101 (8760 posts) - - Show Bio

If it was just goku or goku merged with someone with not much TP feats the TP argument could work since he's TP'ed the hulk before.

But superman has TP resistance feats

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#20 Posted by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Quick question. Apparently Thanos has an undead army of some sort. Do you intend on using that? Because I'd like for this to strictly be a battle between these characters.

I don't have to use the army if you don't want me to. I didn't really plan on using it as it won't do much good against your character.

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#21 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3 said:
@crushyourenemies said:

waiting for the inevitable "Thanos TP I autowin trololol" argument to be used with high anticipation.

It's not even an argument. It's a fact. The OP failed to ban TP like other threads have done.

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#22 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7876 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#23 Posted by Wyldsong (9725 posts) - - Show Bio

Pardon, but what's a CaV?

"Challenge A Viner". Basically a debate between two parties, where at the end, people vote on who they felt won the debate overall.

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#24 Posted by ArrowheadDip (475 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V even though I don't think a fusion between Superman and Goku is a legitimate canon character.

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#25 Posted by Omni_Troll (713 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V even though I don't think a fusion between Superman and Goku is a legitimate canon character.

They are a canon character. DC and Toriyama just confirmed it.

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#26 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2551 posts) - - Show Bio

@arrowheaddip said:

T4V even though I don't think a fusion between Superman and Goku is a legitimate canon character.

They are a canon character. DC and Toriyama just confirmed it.

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#27 Posted by Kingant27 (16895 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#28 Posted by StormShadow_X (16359 posts) - - Show Bio

My lord Tag. But only because of that Sweet Pic

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#29 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

tag. Good luck man w questions, ET is a classic debater & the matchup is already in his favour IMO.

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#30 Posted by animebattles (295 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#31 Posted by DivineDebater (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:
@divinedebater said:

Pardon, but what's a CaV?

"Challenge A Viner". Basically a debate between two parties, where at the end, people vote on who they felt won the debate overall.

Thank you.

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#32 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8728 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions: when do you think you will be able to get a post up. I would rather you go first because I wish to see how you plan on debating with him

@apex_pretador: ETs a classic debater?

whats wrong, don't think I'm classic? jk, I don't know what that means TBH

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#34 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I like to make very detail post, so it might not even be up until tomorrow, but I could possibly get it up today. I'll tell you in a few.

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#35 Edited by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

If it isn't clear already, Gokent is just a fusion between Goku and Superman (who need know introduction), and posses the showings of both.

Gokent!

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Capabilities:

Thanks to the fusion Gokent gains a number of different abilities. These include...

  • Enhanced physicals
  • Enhanced senses
  • Flight
  • Various types of vision (heat, microscopic, etc...)
  • Instant transmission
  • Ki manipulation (ki blast, shields, etc...)

And various other techniques and abilities. That's also not taking into account that Gokent will have Clark's intellect, as well as Goku's hand to hand prowess.

Showings:

Strength

I believe Thanos is superior in this regard, but that's not to undermine the strength of Gokent. Let's take a look at a few examples.

While Goku has his own impressive showings (https://youtu.be/bxRZm-wUcGk) I think it's safe to say that Clark will contribute the most in this regard. I think many are already aware of the famous instance where Clark lifts the weight of the Earth for 5 days, while deprived of sunlight.

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This showing of planetary strength is also supported by various other feats of similar, or higher status. Clark and Manhunter pushing Braniac planet dwarfing ship, Clark pushing War World (New 52), and even some Pre-52 showings...

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I think it's obvious that Gokent won't just be some push over in this regard. Moving on!

Speed

Let's talk about combat speed. This is one of the main advantages that Gokent has in this battle. Both members of the fusion have impressive displays of speed. For example, here's an instance where Goku casually blocks a series of sword swipes from Trunks...

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What makes this so impressive is the fact that Trunks was able to blitz Frieza. The same Frieza who's speed was so immense that the Z-Warriors couldn't keep up with him and Goku's movement, and was even able to keep up with Goku while he was using kaio-ken 20x, as well as when he went Super Saiyan. However, let's not stop there! Here's another impressive showing from Goku...

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What makes this so impressive is that moments before this Frieza used the same/a similar attack to kill Dende, and Z-Fighters didn't even realize it.

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However, that feat can't truly be quantified, but it's still impressive none to say the least. Although, I should point out that these are weaker versions of Goku, and that Gokent can use feats all the way to Super Saiyan 3 Goku (but I'll touch on that later).

Then we have Superman's speed also contributing to the fusion. Here's an instance where Superman and Flash move so fast that the world appears frozen to them.

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Next there are the dozens of instances where Clark utilizes his speed to blitz opponents.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/2959708-0983522471-26291.jpg (Scan 1: Blitzing Imperix)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/2959707-1871543172-26291.jpg (Scan 2: Blitzing Mongol)

Now here's one of Clark's more versatile usages of his speed...

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4235162-2630294-superman_v2_170___11.jpg (Scan 1: Uses his speed to phase through energy blast)

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11120/111200299/4235160-3706735-4249927539-26302.jpg (Scan 2: Using his speed to phase through Doomsday's hits)

So in reality Thanos energy blast, and physical strikes are rendered irrelevant because Gokent can just phase through them. Not only that, but Gokent's speed far surpasses Thanos. I don't really see why Thanos would even able to tag him. Yes Thanos has fought fast opponents (Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, not Thor, etc...), but they rarely ever use their speed against him. And when characters do utilize their speed against Thanos, things like this happen...

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Yes Thanos eventually tagged Eros, but considering the fact that Gokent would should infinitely faster than Eros, I don't see Thanos laying a hand of Gokent. I can also cite the instances where Thanos struggled to tag Captain Mar'Vell (albeit, he eventually grabbed him and tossed him to the ground) and his sparring session with Gamora (but, like I said, it was a sparring session). However, that's not to say Thanos is slow. He definitely has some notable speed feats such as stopping a blitz from a Herald (not quantifiable) and reacting to Thor tossing his hammer at him (also not quantifiable, and street level characters such as Spider-Man have done the same), but nothing to suggest he'd be able to tag Gokent (especially since it's character for both members of the fusion to dodge attacks).

Also, since I consider this to be apart of speed, let's talk about a technique called instant transmission.

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This technique will allow Gokent to pretty much teleport anywhere he wants, but he'll need to target an energy first (in this case, Thanos's). This would be useful as he could use it to do things like escaping Thanos's grasp, or surprise attacks such as this...

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Striking power

Before I get carried away, let's talk about how hard Gokent will be able to hit (something that will definitely be a huge factor in this fight). Both members of the fusion have impressive striking capabilities. For instance, Goku was capable of physical harming a guy who survived a planet destroying attack (Frieza).

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Here's conformation that the Spirit Bomb has the ability to destroy a planet.

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"If you're not careful you could destroy the very planet you're trying to protect." Albeit, the power of the attack can't completely be quantified, but considering the fact that Gokent can use feats from Super Saiyan 3 Goku (who, by that point in time, should be able to dish out attacks capable of harming foes of much greater durability... Ex: Goku was harming Cell who took a planet destroying blast from Vegeta, and only lost an arm... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA-WIynIzzs) I think it's safe to say that Gokent will definitely dish out the pain.

Continuing with striking power, Gokent also gets Superman's impressive striking power as well. For example, here's an instance where Clark's reflected punch is enough to deal massive collateral damage to the moon.

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Not only that, but Clark's punches were shown to phase a guy capable phasing Darkseid. The same Darkseid who took on Alan Scott while he was amped by the Multiversal Green, and brushed off the explosion of a planet (it should also be noted that it was him and Highfather facing off against each other that lead to the destruction of the planet... http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3504741-11.jpg).

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I think that will be all for now. Moving on, let's talk about durability.

Durability

Both members of the fusion have superb durability. For example, here's an instance where Goku gets kicked around several times, blasted with a ki blast, and then sent flying towards Namek with enough force to cause a massive explosion (do note that this is base form during the Namek saga, and obviously he should be more durable later on in the series).

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Moving on, what does Clark bring to the table? Clark has many notable showings of durability. For example, here's an instance where Clark takes a hit hard enough to send him through the planet.

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Not only that, but Clark has multiple feats that involve being with an exploding planets blast radius.

(Instance 1): http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/7229/273093-boomsupes22ez_super.jpg

(Instance 2):https://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/oops.jpg

I think it's obvious that Gokent will have amazing blunt force durability, but what energy based attacks? Well this shouldn't be to much of a problem either. Throughout the DBZ series Goku tanks energy blast left and right. Heck, back on Namek he reflected a planet destroying energy attack.

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And what about Clark? No problem here either. He took a blast powerful enough to destroy an entire city (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125391/4295947-2bcc2014-03-05+07-32-33+-+batman-superman+%282013-%29+-+annual+001-007+-+copia.jpg), and even withstood a blast from Mobius (the same Mobius who fried Ultraman and killed multiple Green Lantern's with a casual blast... https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/green-lantern-corps-and-power-ring-vs-mobius-3.jpg).

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I think it's evident that Gokent will amazing durability thanks to both members of the fusion.

Ki Blast

The last thing I'll talk about is ki blast (an ability that Gokent gains exclusively from Goku). If you hadn't already noticed, earlier I provided a link where Vegeta uses a planet busting attack against Cell. This only manages to leave Cell with a lost limb, and proceeds to laugh it off and grow his arm back. However, in the video where Goku performs his instant transmission Kamehameha his attack is able to do more damage than Vegeta's. Not only that, but during the Namek Saga Frieza was able to destroy a planet (which I, once again, already showed). I think it's obvious that Goku should be much stronger than Frieza (which he already was while in Super Saiyan during Namek saga) with his newer power ups such as Super Saiyain 2 and 3. There's not much else to say, and I think you get the idea of how powerful Goku's ki blast are, however I would like to mention Goku's creativity with ki blast.

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Anyway, there's a lot more I want to touch on, but I think this is good for now. Your move.

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#39 Posted by Watcher_Killer4 (1491 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions:

Lol wow didn't know there was an actual feat for Goku punching away enough force to destroy a planet

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#40 Posted by Kingant27 (16895 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#41 Edited by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio
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Thanos the mad Titan

Bio

Thanos is the son of the Eternals Sui San and Mentor and is the brother of Eros. He was born on Saturn's moon Titan with a deviant gene that changed his appearance. This caused his mother to attempt to kill him at birth and eventually cause him to become an outcast on Titan. Over the years through experimentation, he surpassed the limits of the eternals and he eventually attacked his home killing thousands including his own mother. At some point Thanos fell in love with Death herself, doing several horrific deeds to win her favor. Over the years Thanos has killed millions, destroyed the universe, and taken on some of the most powerful beings in the multiverse.

Powers and abilities

Basic abilities:

  • Superhuman Intelligence
  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Stamina
  • Superhuman Durability
  • Nigh Invulnerability
  • Immortality
  • Accelerated Healing Factor
  • Superhuman Agility
  • Superhuman Reflexes
  • Energy Manipulation & Control
  • Telepathy
  • Matter Manipulation & Control
  • Magic
  • Flight
  • Teleportation
  • Summoning

Superhuman Intelligence:

Probably his most dangerous trait, Thanos is one of the smartest people in the marvel universe. It is thanks to his intelligence that he managed to become has strong as he is. He is a genius in almost every known science and has created technology far greater than anything seen on Earth. He is also a genius in the battlefield and in many occasions has beaten stronger opponents than him just by outsmarting them.

Strength.

Thanos posses amazing strength, with his limits still not known yet. He has shown enough strength to destroy planets and has overpowered some of the strongest people in the marvel universe such as Hulk, Thor, the Thing, Beta Ray Bill etc. He has even managed to match the strength of Tyrant though albeit amped a little it is still a great feat.

Here is on example of his strength

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Here Thanos pimp slaps both Hulk and Classic Drax. Both of these guys are easily class 100 in strength and Classic drax destroyed planet

He does the same against Hulk during the infinity storyline

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Here he easily backhands a charging Hulk away with ease. Now this was the same hulk who survived being under the weight of a star so to send him flying so easily is quite the feat.

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Speed

Despite his huge size Thanos does have speed that exceeds even the fastest human athlete. Thanos can also teleport great distances as well. However his superhuman reflexes are whats more important in this battles. He has been able to react and avoid attack from the likes of Thor and Silver Surfer.

And now I know you going to get into the speed blitz argument so I'm going to shut you down right here. Thanos has fought ftl people on several occasions. Showing one scan of Eros using his speed against Thanos but accomplishing nothing doesn't change that.

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  • First scan he basically beats down Beta Ray Bill who is pretty much FTL in combat and Travel speed. Thanos has no problem taking him out. During the (new Infinity trilogy)
  • Here Thanos react to the Fallen One who was charging at him at speed faster than light. The Fallen one is the frist Heral of Galacuts is problably the second strongest after surfer. (During Thano's pre annihilation run)

Oh and if you that Beta Ray Bill lightspeed combat.

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Here Beta Ray Bill and Silfer Surfer fight each other in hyperspace. As you can see BRB and Surfer are both able to react and fight in hyperspace. Surfer is undoubtedly faster than lightspeed so for BRB to keep up with him during this fight is impressive and should prove he is FTL.(during Beta Ray Bill Godhunter)

Both of these two are FTL and Thanos has no problem reacting to them. Thanos has fought several FTL fighters and non have been able to blitz so what makes you think this will be any different?

Durability

One of Thanos's greatest abilities is his durability. After being revived by Death her self Thanos has become nigh-invulnerable. But even before that he has survived attacks form some of marvels strongest beings. He managed to survive attack from silver surfer, Odin and a Power gem wielding Thor. He has tanked shouts from Black bolt and survived a blow from Ronan the accuser's universal weapon.

But for some examples

In terms of energy attacks we all know of the planet busting exploits of the DBZ characters and I'm not going to deny that Goku has this power. But it will be no problem for Thanos

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Here he survives the explosion of a gas giant that was caused by the Fallen one. No while his clothes are torn, Thanos himself is fine. THis should show he resistance to blasts. (Thano pre annihilation run)

As for physical attacks

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Here Thanos tanks a lightening blast and then a full on strike from Thor and survives pretty easily.(Infinity storyline)

Now this is particularly impressive because Thor's powerful strikers are planetary

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Here Thor strikes Gorr the God Butcher and it says that with his strike the planets around them are shattering. THhs is easily a planetary feat and Thanos was able to survive Thor's powerful strike.

Energy Manipulation

Thanos has shown various different abilities with energy manipulation. He has been shown to use it for both offense and defense. He has demonstrated the ability to project pure energy as a concussive force, "magnetic" energy,infrared heat-beams from his eyes, and disruptor beams, unilaterally striking separate targets with his optic blasts as well as form vastly powerful energy shields, barriers, and force-fields.

I will start of simple

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Here Thanos one shots the Thing and Thor at once with his eye beam. You can they are both knocked out after getting hit by the blast.

Initial Considerations

  1. In terms of strength you yourself stated Thanos is stronger and in just striking they should probably be equal. Though Thanos is not a physical fighter like your character.
  2. In durability, Thanos is far greater than your character and will be able to tank Gokent's strongest attacks without too much difficult. Whether they are physical attacks or energy attacks.
  3. Thanos should also be equal if not superior to Gokent's in terms of energy manipulation. THanos has faced some of the most powerful foes in the marvel universe and has been able damage them with his energy manip as such he should be able to keep up here.
  4. Gokent is faster yes but Thanos has regularly dealt with FTL fighters who are just as fast if not faster than Gokent so Thanos will have no problem here at all.
  5. Thanos has other abilities which I don't see Gokent having an answer to but I will get into that has the debate progresses on

yeah that should be enough for now.

Mini counter

I just had to counter this because you brought it up.

Yes Thanos eventually tagged Eros, but considering the fact that Gokent would should infinitely faster than Eros, I don't see Thanos laying a hand of Gokent. I can also cite the instances where Thanos struggled to tag Captain Mar'Vell (albeit, he eventually grabbed him and tossed him to the ground) and his sparring session with Gamora (but, like I said, it was a sparring session). However, that's not to say Thanos is slow. He definitely has some notable speed feats such as stopping a blitz from a Herald (not quantifiable) and reacting to Thor tossing his hammer at him (also not quantifiable, and street level characters such as Spider-Man have done the same), but nothing to suggest he'd be able to tag Gokent (especially since it's character for both members of the fusion to dodge attacks).

So brining up a fight where Thanos fought his brother to show he is slow is pretty poor. Thanos even says this figth is childish and that he does need to hit him so I don't see the point in this. And Thanos has fought Captain Mar-vell on several occasions where he has no problem with his speed, one instance will not change that. He has consistently dealt with FTL fighters. Even on the several occasion he has fought Surfer, speed blitz has never been used succesfully against him. Your amalgam maybe fast but he is not faster than Surfer

@the_man_with_questions ok opener is up.

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#42 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

Intellect

Gokent also posses Clark's phenomenal intellect. Clark consistently outsmarts one of the smartest men in the DCU (Lex Luthor), has operated advance technology, and solved complex equations within seconds. He's also quite the strategist (the same can be said for Goku as well). Thanos may be smarter, but Gokent won't be any push over in this regard.

Strength

Quick question, but wasn't Thanos utilizing the Infinity Gauntlet when he fought those two? Cause, from what I understand, Drax has already proven to be somewhat of a match for Thanos in the past (also, wasn't the planet busting feat caused by both Thanos and Drax fighting each other?). Not only that, but isn't that professor Hulk in the image? Isn't he suppose to be weaker than normal Hulk? Just asking.

Also, slapping away Hulk is far less impressive if you take into account that Hulk was in the air. He had no footing to stop his momentum. However, that attack still sent Hulk flying, and, from what I understand, it left him with a bloody lip (albeit, Hulk was also smiling afterwards, but still impressive none to say the least).

Speed

Fighting fast opponents doesn't necessarily make you fast. Especially when your opponents don't utilize their speed against you. In that case, Spider-Man, Deathstroke, etc... They'd all be faster than light (heck, Peter has even tagged an angered Surfer http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111216997/4475364-3814122-1480383668-55586.jpg). And, if we wanted to go higher in the food chain, then I could always mention Thor. He consistently fights opponents that are faster than light, but his actual combat speed is pretty underwhelming. Nothing in those scans indicate that BRB or Thanos are moving incredibly fast.

Also, I already mentioned the Fallen One feat. I think I called him a speeding herald in my first post, and stated that the feat was unquantifiable (which it is). Can you actually prove that FO was moving at light speed?

Not only that, but I think that you're mistaking reaction speed with combat speed. Being able to react to something doesn't mean that you can consistently operate at those speeds.

Durability

Quick question, but how large is that sun? It honestly looks really small in those scans. Not only that, but where is Thanos is relation to said sun? Because presumably that rock, as well as his clothing, would all be incinerated if they were near a star. And speaking of surviving an exploding star...

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Albeit, he didn't take it point blank and was KO'ed, it's still impressive when you consider the fact that a supernova's destruction capabilities can reach for millions of miles, and that the one in the scan destroy the planet Clark was standing on (as well as it's moon). Just putting that out there. Moving on!

In regards to Thor striking Thanos, I think that's it's important to note that they were battling it out on Earth. While Thor was most likely putting a lot of force behind that hit, he was also likely holding back so not to destroy the planet. Plus planetary striking power won't be a problem for Gokent with feats like this...

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A punch so powerful that it shook the entire planet, and it's shock waves could be felt in the outer atmosphere. That's not even taking into account that Gokent also gets Goku's striking feats. Do note that Goku was harming a guy who laughed off a planet busting attack, and in more powerful states such as Super Saiyain 3 he should be able to dish out even more damage.

Energy Manipulation

Thanos one-shoting the duo is impressive (albeit, it technically took two shots to put down Thor, but that's just nitpicking), but I don't think that either of them have Goku or Clark's resilience to energy based attacks. I don't see why Gokent couldn't just swat the blast away (as I mention earlier, he was redirecting planet destroying attacks back on Namek), dodge it, or tank it. That's not even taking into account that Gokent could just phase through the attack.

Things to consider!

First off, despite Thanos's impressive durability, I don't think that he'll be able to withstand a constant blitz from Gokent. Dozens of planetary strikes (or strikes that come pretty close to that type of damage output), ki blast, and, just for good measure, he could throw in ice breath to help slow down Thanos (even if it just helps a little... http://images.sequart.org/images/Wonder-Woman-219-page-Superman-and-Wonder-Woman-in-the-crater.jpg). It doesn't help that Gokent will be able to do this at speeds that Thanos can't even comprehend.

Also, in regards to speed, I don't think you really countered Gokent's massive speed advantage. Thanos fighting beings who are faster than light is irrelevant if none of those characters use their speed against him. Simply put, Thanos isn't usually portrayed as an extremely fast character, and it isn't out of character for even street levelers such as Wolverine and Captain America to avoid or tag him.

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Also, "...speed blitz has never been used succesfully against him." You sure about that?...

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Thanos even admits that the Space Gem didn't make him faster. And, in regards Surfer, I'd be incline to agree with you on him being faster than both Goku and Superman (even when fused together), but only in travel speed. In terms of reaction speed Surfer can be very inconsistent. Especially without his board. On average I'd argue that both Clark and Goku are just as fast, if not faster, than Surfer in terms of combat speed. Anyway, that's still kind of irrelevant since, once again, Surfer hardly ever uses his speed against Thanos. The only time I recall him doing so is in Infinity, but all he did was move in a straight line and missed taking the gauntlet from Thanos, despite the fact that Captain America had just dodge and blocked two of Thanos's blows just previous to that.

"Thanos should also be equal if not superior to Gokent's in terms of energy manipulation. THanos has faced some of the most powerful foes in the marvel universe and has been able damage them with his energy manip as such he should be able to keep up here."

Doubt it. Nothing you've shown really suggest that.

"Thanos has other abilities which I don't see Gokent having an answer to but I will get into that has the debate progresses on"

I still have a lot I want to touch on, but I'll save that for later. Until then, I'd like to see what other points you'll bring up. Your move.

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#43 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (15976 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Edited by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions:

Counters

Intellect

Gokent also posses Clark's phenomenal intellect. Clark consistently outsmarts one of the smartest men in the DCU (Lex Luthor), has operated advance technology, and solved complex equations within seconds. He's also quite the strategist (the same can be said for Goku as well). Thanos may be smarter, but Gokent won't be any push over in this regard.

Thanos is one of the smartest people in the entire Marvel Universe. It has allowed him to take on foes above his paygrade such as Galactus and Tyrant. In a fight like this Goku's intellect would actually be more of a problem as he is a genius when it comes to combat but Thanos is still far superior in this regard, He always finds way to end battle's quickly and is very good at exploiting his opponent's weaknesses.

Strength

Quick question, but wasn't Thanos utilizing the Infinity Gauntlet when he fought those two? Cause, from what I understand, Drax has already proven to be somewhat of a match for Thanos in the past (also, wasn't the planet busting feat caused by both Thanos and Drax fighting each other?). Not only that, but isn't that professor Hulk in the image? Isn't he suppose to be weaker than normal Hulk? Just asking.

No he wasn't using the infinity gauntlet when he fought those two. And not really their fight ended pretty quickly, they clashed once and Drax was down for the count.

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They just havbrief clash which destroys the planet and at the end of it Thanos is fine will Drax is done for the count.

And Drax has busted planets on his own

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Here he Destroys a planet and then afterward destroys a Star by ripping out his Core.

This Should prove that Thanos has planetary strength atleast since he able to match him and overpower Drax.

Also, slapping away Hulk is far less impressive if you take into account that Hulk was in the air. He had no footing to stop his momentum. However, that attack still sent Hulk flying, and, from what I understand, it left him with a bloody lip (albeit, Hulk was also smiling afterwards, but still impressive none to say the least).

He still bloodied a Hulk that took the weight of a star like nothing. But As shown above Thanos has greater strength feats than this. However the on I posted above should suffice.

Speed

Fighting fast opponents doesn't necessarily make you fast. Especially when your opponents don't utilize their speed against you. In that case, Spider-Man, Deathstroke, etc... They'd all be faster than light (heck, Peter has even tagged an angered Surferhttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111216997/4475364-3814122-1480383668-55586.jpg). And, if we wanted to go higher in the food chain, then I could always mention Thor. He consistently fights opponents that are faster than light, but his actual combat speed is pretty underwhelming. Nothing in those scans indicate that BRB or Thanos are moving incredibly fast.

I feel you missed my point, I'm not saying Thanos is faster than your character. What I am saying is your character will not be able to blitz Thanos. He has fought several opponents that are FTL and that has never happened so what makes your character any different? Surfer has consistently used his speed to over come his opponents but he has never successfully done so against Thanos.

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Here again we see Thanos dealing with an FTL opponent. And he easily reacts to him and tags him several time before putting him down. If Surfer in his several fights against Thanos could not blitz him what makes you think Gokent can. Thanos has not been succesfully blitzed by several FTL opponents and I don't see him doing so here

Also, I already mentioned the Fallen One feat. I think I called him a speeding herald in my first post, and stated that the feat was unquantifiable (which it is). Can you actually prove that FO was moving at light speed?

Here, this is undoubtedly FTL not matter how you look at it

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Not only that, but I think that you're mistaking reaction speed with combat speed. Being able to react to something doesn't mean that you can consistently operate at those speeds.

But that isn't the case for Thanos. He didn't just do it once, he has shown to be able to react to FTL people on multiple occasions. People faster than what you have shown for your character. So there is nothing to suggest your character will be able to blitz him.

Durability

Quick question, but how large is that sun? It honestly looks really small in those scans. Not only that, but where is Thanos is relation to said sun? Because presumably that rock, as well as his clothing, would all be incinerated if they were near a star.

What sun? That is not a sun that was an exploding gas giant. Thanos was on the planet when it exploded. And he was just chilling on the rocks there orbiting the gas planet. Like how Satrun has a ring around it's planet. He survived an exploding planet easily, is what the scan shows.

Albeit, he didn't take it point blank and was KO'ed, it's still impressive when you consider the fact that a supernova's destruction capabilities can reach for millions of miles, and that the one in the scan destroy the planet Clark was standing on (as well as it's moon). Just putting that out there. Moving on!

But he was still KOed by it. That mean and attack of that level would take him out so I don't see why it is impressive. The second feat is pretty impressive but it won't save him from Thanos

In regards to Thor striking Thanos, I think that's it's important to note that they were battling it out on Earth. While Thor was most likely putting a lot of force behind that hit, he was also likely holding back so not to destroy the planet.

Thor was clearly not holding back, he was hitting with his full force the planet didn't get destroyed because he didn't hit the Earth. In his fight with Gorr he has striking with planetary force but the planet he was on didn't shatter. Thanos took a head on strike from easily and Thor was going all out so he definitely hit him with planetary force.

A punch so powerful that it shook the entire planet, and it's shock waves could be felt in the outer atmosphere. That's not even taking into account that Gokent also gets Goku's striking feats. Do note that Goku was harming a guy who laughed off a planet busting attack, and in more powerful states such as Super Saiyain 3 he should be able to dish out even more damage.

Impressive feat for Superman. But don't forget how he did this in the first place

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Superman charged this punch while flying from orbit to punch H'el. He was able to gain momentum to do this and H'el was distracted with fighting Wonder Woman and Superboy. Here Gokent is on his own so he won't get the time to charge up that punch.

And may I ask what instance you are talking about for Goku?

Energy Manipulation

Thanos one-shoting the duo is impressive (albeit, it technically took two shots to put down Thor, but that's just nitpicking), but I don't think that either of them have Goku or Clark's resilience to energy based attacks. I don't see why Gokent couldn't just swat the blast away (as I mention earlier, he was redirecting planet destroying attacks back on Namek), dodge it, or tank it. That's not even taking into account that Gokent could just phase through the attack.

What planetary attacks has he Goku ever swatted around? Are you talking about those ki beams that Frieza shot at him? The beams that just killed Dende. Killing Dende doesn't make those being Planetary. Dende is literally a child who can heal, he has the durability of a kid So Goku never redirected planetary ki beams.

About phasing, Superman has phased through an energy attack once. This is super out of character for him, he has almost never done this before, and now he is going to do it against Thanos? If Superman could phase like you claim, then he would never get tagged like the hundreds of times he has in the past. One instance doesn't change that.

You have yet to show me why Thanos can't just do this.

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Here he absolutely annihilates Cancerverse Hulk who is every bit as strong as regular hulk except he can't die since he is from the cancerverse except Thanos is able to give him a permanent death by completely incinerating him.

Here is far more impressive feat, where Thanos is able to hurt Galactus and damage him.

Additional counters

First off, despite Thanos's impressive durability, I don't think that he'll be able to withstand a constant blitz from Gokent. Dozens of planetary strikes (or strikes that come pretty close to that type of damage output), ki blast, and, just for good measure, he could throw in ice breath to help slow down Thanos (even if it just helps a little) It doesn't help that Gokent will be able to do this at speeds that Thanos can't even comprehend.

Thanos no sells planetary strikes all the time. Hitting him with that level of power will not do anything to him. I can reenforce this even more if you wish

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Here he shields tank multiple punches from the champion of the universe. A guy who can bust planets with his strikes yet couldn't get past Thanos's shields. Thanos can use this against your character and he won't be able to do anything

Also, in regards to speed, I don't think you really countered Gokent's massive speed advantage. Thanos fighting beings who are faster than light is irrelevant if none of those characters use their speed against him. Simply put, Thanos isn't usually portrayed as an extremely fast character, and it isn't out of character for even street levelers such as Wolverine and Captain America to avoid or tag him.

Maybe the reason they didn't use their speed against him is because they can't. I mean if this happened just once I would understand but if you are saying that every single time Thanos has fought someone this fast they have never attempted to use their then that is clear lowballing. Thanos is not getting blitz here.

Also, "...speed blitz has never been used succesfully against him." You sure about that?...

How was this succesful? He lost his gem in the end and Thanos won the fight so the point stands.

Oh and it clear states that his speed came from the gem.

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Saying it didn't is a blatant lie when the runner himself admitted the speed came from the gem. Moreover this wasn't a random encounter, The runner knew Thanos was coming and purposefully hid from him and attack him by surprise. Moreover his speed was increasing during the fight as seen in your scan to the point where he was moving 2x FTL. Faster than anything you have shown for you character so this feat is useless.

You character is not as fast as the runner and he failed to beat Thanos. You haven't even shown you character to be faster than Silver Surfer or Beta Ray Bill

Anyway, that's still kind of irrelevant since, once again, Surfer hardly ever uses his speed against Thanos. The only time I recall him doing so is in Infinity, but all he did was move in a straight line and missed taking the gauntlet from Thanos, despite the fact that Captain America had just dodge and blocked two of Thanos's blows just previous to that.

This is a horrible argument, you have no proof that Surfer never attempted to use his speed. He just hasn't been able to do so because Thanos has fast enough reactions to be able to react. And aside from that do you honestly believe you character is faster than Surfer. You are definitely going to have to prove that because nothing you have shown suggest they are anywhere near Silver Surfer in speed.

Also Thanos had infinity gauntlet during the Captain America. He could have snapped his finger and Cap would have been gone, so the entire time he was just playing with Cap. Using that instance does not help you in anyway.

Additional abilties

So Thanos does have additional abilities that he can use in this fight. Now I will admit this won't be Thanos's first choice, but as the battle progresses it's not out of the realm for Thanos to use such abilities.

So the first and biggest ability he has that he can use is TP. It is something he has used on a couple of occasions and he will use it here as the battle progresses.

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This is a basic example of him messing up Drax's mind to avoid a fight. Now I can get into Thanos's greater TP feats later on but I would first like to see what -sort of Telepathic defense Gokent has.

Thanos also has matter manipulation. Again it isn't something he uses often but as the fight progresses Thanos will try end the fight as quickly as possible

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#45 Posted by StormShadow_X (16359 posts) - - Show Bio

Great so far.

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#46 Posted by DeathHero61 (18682 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#47 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

Intellect

Thanos is definitely superior in this regard, but with Clark's intellect Gokent won't be so easily fooled by Thanos.

Strength

I already admitted that Thanos was superior in this regard, so I don't think I'll debate the topic any further. However, I just wanted to get the context behind some of the instances you were citing. Moving on.

Speed

I don't think you get it. Their speed is irrelevant if they aren't actually using it against Thanos. In the scans you cited none of the characters actually try to blitz Thanos. This is a blitz...

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Whatever this is... http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111240836/5223163-1907491543-50319.png Is not a blitz. It's just the writers making into where characters forget that they have super speed for the sake of plot. And, once again, fighting fast characters doesn't make you fast. Especially when those characters don't use their speed against you. Thor consistently fights characters that are faster than light, but the general consensus is that his actual combat speed is pretty underwhelming (based on factual evidence). I personally believe that Thanos sits in a similar boat, and, simply put, he doesn't have the speed feats required to tag Gokent.

Also, you didn't really counter the Fallen One thing. I already knew he was faster than light. The question is, was he traveling faster than light in the instance where he actually tries to blitz Thanos? Him streaking off at an unquantifiable speed is irrelevant.

Durability

Usually when I hear someone mention a gas giant I assume they're taking about the sun. My b. However, that's actually a lot less impressive than I thought. The destructive of a super nova can be felt from over a 50 light years away. A supernova that's only a light year away would wreck are solar system. The planet that Clark was on was well within the vicinity of it's sun. While he did get KO'ed, that would actually make the feat way impressive than what Thanos did (Source: http://www.howitworksdaily.com/could-a-supernova-destroy-earth/).

The shock that would've been produced by such an attack would've shook the planet (assuming Thor was going all out), but then again, this is comic logic and already admitted that the feat was extremely impressive. I don't think I'll argue it any further.

If we look at the scan where Clark hits H'el, his feat were already on the ground.

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That means that the momentum from his flight had already gone away, and it was nothing but Clark's raw punch.

As for the Goku thing, Cell withstood Vegeta's planet destroying Final Flash attack and wasn't phased at all.

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After math...

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Not only was Goku able to harm him with his physical strikes, but his instant Kamehameha dealt more damage to Cell as well.

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That's not even taking into account that this is just Super Saiyan Goku, and that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 will grant him even more power. That's also not taking into account that I showed Clark harming Darkseid (a guy who's casually withstood a planet exploding). Gokent has more than enough damage output to harm Thanos.

Energy Manipulation

One of the first feats I posted for Goku was him deflecting a planet destroying attack...

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Do note that this was back during the Namek Saga and Goku had just achieved Super Saiyan.

That's also not taking into account that Gokent could simply do this...

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As for phasing, I actually cited two instances where Clark uses phasing. Not only that, but Clark's ability to phase has even somewhat referenced by the Flash.

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And it's not like Clark doesn't have a history of vibrating his molecules at immense speeds in the past.

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So I still stand by my point that Gokent could just phase through Thanos's hits and blast.

Also, do you have any proof that Cancerverse Hulk is on par with his 616 counterpart? If anything he's weaker. Hulk has already survived a blast from Thanos's energy projection in the past...

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Also, the scan where Thanos harms Galactus didn't show up. Are you talking about this?

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Galactus wasn't hurt. He was only annoyed. Not only that, but not even Odin has been able to harm Galactus. Moving on.

Countering your counters

Both members of the fusion have striking feats that exceed Champions. Even with the Power Gem, Champion's best feat was destroying a planet. I already showed both of my characters harming guys who no sold planet destroying attacks. Not only that, but when Goku harmed Cell he was only in his Super Saiyan form. Super Saiyan 2 and 3 would obviously increase the power of his strikes. Thanos's shields were about to break from Champion hitting them, so I don't think they'll be able to withstand a barrage of Gokent's punches and ki blast at speeds that Thanos might as well as be a statue at.

Not only that, but Gokent could also get around Thanos's shields by...

A. phasing through them.

B. using his electro-magnetic vision to see where they are, and then use his instant transmission to get inside them/hit where they aren't covering Thanos.

"Maybe the reason they didn't use their speed against him is because they can't. I mean if this happened just once I would understand but if you are saying that every single time Thanos has fought someone this fast they have never attempted to use their then that is clear lowballing. Thanos is not getting blitz here."

No. In none of the scans you've posted did any of those characters try to blitz Thanos (except for Fallen One, but that's not quantifiable). Simply put, they weren't using their speed in those scans. Not because they couldn't, but for the sake of plot. In a logical situation Thanos would be a statue to Gokent. I don't know how I'm low-balling when I'm only acknowledging what's happening within the actual scans, while providing additional proof to support my claims. Gokent is simply to fast for Thanos.

"How was this succesful? He lost his gem in the end and Thanos won the fight so the point stands."

"Oh and it clear states that his speed came from the gem."

"Saying it didn't is a blatant lie when the runner himself admitted the speed came from the gem. Moreover this wasn't a random encounter, The runner knew Thanos was coming and purposefully hid from him and attack him by surprise. Moreover his speed was increasing during the fight as seen in your scan to the point where he was moving 2x FTL. Faster than anything you have shown for you character so this feat is useless."

"You character is not as fast as the runner and he failed to beat Thanos. You haven't even shown you character to be faster than Silver Surfer or Beta Ray Bill"

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"Your gem didn't make you faster. It allowed you to subconsciously manipulate space." Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was lying when I posted this same scan in the post previous to this one. Not only that, but Thanos not knowing about the situation is irrelevant. If he can consistently tag people who are many times faster than light, then why would have a problem tagging someone who's only moving at two times the speed of light? Runner got beat by Thanos cause he was tricked. Not because Thanos tagged him a bunch of times. Your other response leads into my next point...

"This is a horrible argument, you have no proof that Surfer never attempted to use his speed. He just hasn't been able to do so because Thanos has fast enough reactions to be able to react. And aside from that do you honestly believe you character is faster than Surfer. You are definitely going to have to prove that because nothing you have shown suggest they are anywhere near Silver Surfer in speed."

"Also Thanos had infinity gauntlet during the Captain America. He could have snapped his finger and Cap would have been gone, so the entire time he was just playing with Cap. Using that instance does not help you in anyway."

It's made evident by the scans that Surfer isn't using his speed. Also, it sounds like you're trying to suggest that Thanos has faster than light combat speed. I really hope not. Also, theirs no reason for me to prove either member of the fusion are faster than BRB or Surfer (I also admitted that Surfer surpasses both members of my team in travel speed, but that's it). You didn't prove they were. The scan you posted was a traveling speed feat for Surfer, and nanosecond feat for BRB at best. That's well within Clark's capability...

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And, despite the inconsistent speed of ki blast, some of them have still be shown to reach places like the moon within seconds (albeit, that's slower than light, which takes under 2 seconds to reach the moon... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWmMCxRyUbs). Still, in the video I posted where Goku deflects Frieza's attack, he was also able to react to it. That same blast then traveled to another planet within seconds. I think it's safe to say that Goku while in Super Saiyan 2 is faster than light, and even faster in 3. (I could honestly argue that he was faster than light after just perfecting the Super Saiyan form).

Also, even if Thanos was "...just playing" with Cap, it's still evident that he couldn't tag him. Thanos even goes as far as to hold Steve down the hands he formed from the ground. I think it's safe to say that Gokent is faster than Thanos... Way to fast.

Countering Additional Abilities

Clark provides Gokent with some pretty solid telepathic defense. Pre-52 Clark was given telepathic mind blocks by Manhunter, while New 52 Clark got some from Orion (which allowed Clark to resist Hector Hammonds telepathic assault).

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Pre-52 Superman has an even better feat where he resist an amped version of the even more impress Pre-52 Hammond, and another instance where he resist Arion.

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New 52 Clark was also able to "stop thinking" and act purely on instinct, preventing Captain Comet from mind controlling him.

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Albeit, that was more of a last minute situation thing and I don't think Gokent would use such as tactic as he's also been fused with Goku (who's known for his fighting prowess and wouldn't just "stop thinking"). However, the real question is whether Thanos will even have time to think about or even concentrate on performing such a tactic (which I doubt he will).

Gokent shouldn't have to worry about Thanos's matter manipulation. I don't think even to cite any feats to suggest this. Turning a random Skrull into stone doesn't say much, as both members of the fusion are infinitely more durable than it. But... I might as well go ahead and cite the instance where Clark withstands a radiation storm that "...Twists and transforms, on an atomic level. Everything that touches it."

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Your move.

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#48 Posted by phillip33 (3924 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v...

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#49 Posted by EmperorThanos- (16040 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (2707 posts) - - Show Bio