CaV: Sinister Five (RajjarAlt) vs Order of the White Lotus (PepsiMan-)

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PepsiMan-

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RajjarAlt
RajjarAlt

The Sinister Five

PepsiMan-
PepsiMan-

The Order of the White Lotus

  • Win by any means
  • Basic knowledge
  • In character
  • Start 10 meters/33 feet apart
  • Fight by Lake Defuniak
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viking1205

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T4V

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deactivated-61cf4439ee1f9

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Cola, is that you? Have you at last embraced your full potential!?

  • I don't know whose mental control will win out between Bumi and Sandman, considering it is more a part of SM that it will ever be to any earthbender, even Bumi, I'm inclined to say Sandman's 'essence' will make earthbending any loose earth more difficult for bumi.
  • Electro's ability with lightning is beyond anything in Avatar, already we have two of the Sinister Six beating the White Lotus at it's own game.
  • Against the heavy hitters of the SS, Pian Dao is more or less useless in this fight. The only villain he has a chance of doing anything against is Lizard, and Lizard out-stats him in every way.
  • Iroh and Jeong Jeong have a nutty fight on their hands, but they are useless against Doc, who's arms are "impervious to heat and magnetism". I don't think they have the heat without the comet to turn sandman into glass, so they would have to focus on Lizard, Goblin, and getting a surprise hit on an un-defending Ock.
  • Pakku may be the MVP given the setting, and could instantly KO Electro, which I'm going to assume happens, it's just such a perfect counter. Pakku also masterly commands the very element that is also Sandman's weakness. Turning Sandman to mud is very likely given the amount it took to defeat Sandy in SM3.
  • Assuming all goes well for Team Avatar, we've got two heavy hitters out within the first few minutes, and thank heavens for MVP Pakku, because either of those two could have probably solo'd the White Lotus' other members.
  • In the meantime, WL has had to deal with the other four while Pakku was soloing Elec and Sandy, let's generously assume Goblin has killed only Pian Dao by this point, and Bumi and the firebenders have managed to hold off the others.
  • Given the tech advantage, Doc and Gobby are massive problems. Let's assume that the firebenders team up and put the char in the zard, immolating the reptilian scientist.
  • So now let's generously assume that by this point, Goblin or Ock manage to kill Jeong Jeong in any number of violent ways. Bumi, Iroh, and Pakku vs. Ock and Gobby. The only way I see the WL taking this is if Bumi scores a massive rock throw on Goblin, grounding and possibly wounding him. (think the literal houses Bumi was throwing in Omashu).
  • Once grounded, Gobby is far easier to deal with, not up close of course, but Bumi could easily immobilize him after this, assume Gobby breaks out once to the shock of the remaining WL, but then is straight up buried by Bumi.
  • Lets stay generous and say at this point, Doc has managed to crush Pakku (no!!). Doc Ock vs Iroh and Bumi, both totally winded, while Ock is limited only by his arms (I never realized this but do they have like an arc-reactor power source so they never need to be recharged while he's alive?).
  • Let's be still generous and say that Bumi has enough left in him to pelt Doc with massive boulders while Iroh gets in with a fire or lightning strike that kills/short-circuits the arms of ock. Bumi dies of exhaustion in his friends arms and Iroh walks away the only survivor (until Gobby digs himself out), if he does so before the end I'll be generous and say Iroh never lets him get close enough and can firebend any pumkin bombs thrown at him, say the firebends a blast into Goblin's face to the latter's suprise to seal the deal?

This is my Doctor Strange-esque synopsis for how the White Lotus can with this fight. It is literally like 1/100 chance the WL can pull this off, as all the above has to happen, but it is possible.

Out of 100 attempts though, the five members of the Sinister Six win the vast majority.

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Azronger

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deactivated-61cf4439ee1f9

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@azronger: Yeah, I've seen those mentioned, andI've been meaning to ask what that is. I usually just answer the question.

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viking1205

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@azronger: Yeah, I've seen those mentioned, and I've been meaning to ask what that is. I usually just answer the question.

CaVs are "Challenge a Viner", basically an official debate between two users, each representing a side. Essentially, the only ones that would make arguments are those two users, in this case, RajjarAlt and PepsiMan. After they finish their set of posts(generally it'd be 3 each), the rest of us can vote on them. You either type T4V - Tag for Votes or TAEP - Tag after every post, based on which you'll receive tags at the end of the debate or after every post.

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geekryan

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TAEP

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Laufnyr

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AKZ

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Is KoL debating his own alts now is this a burner Cola account?

Anyways T4V.

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RhoyneDelta

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Interesting TAEP

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Sauce_God31

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Taep

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Alphamon

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Morghulis

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@anderioan: Why in the world are you going opinions on the CaV and ways one opponent can beat the other by giving strategies? Read CaV rules or something smh.

OT: T4V

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deactivated-61cf4439ee1f9

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mandabub

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Did he just deactivate because he got called out in this thread? TAEP

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PepsiMan-

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The Order of the White Lotus' highest echelon is comprised of 5 incredible fighters:

  • General Iroh of the Fire Nation Royal Family
  • The King of Omashu, Bumi
  • Former Fire Nation Admiral Jeong Jeong
  • Master Pakku of Agna Qel'a
  • The Legendary Master Piandao

Iroh and Jeong Jeong can manipulate fire, Bumi can manipulate earth, and Pakku can manipulate water. Piandao is just an incredible swordsman.

My strategy involves King Bumi and Piandao splitting apart from Iroh and Pakku, with Jeong Jeong on the sidelines to help whoever needs to be helped. Bumi and Piandao will take on the Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Lizard and Sandman at the same time, while Iroh and Pakku team up to defeat Electro.

Bumi and Piandao

King Bumi is good enough of an earthbender to bend on a city wide scale:

No Caption Provided

The feats King Bumi performed here are far superior to anyone he's facing by magnitudes except for possibly Sandman, who is directly countered by Bumi due to his ability to bend earth:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Bumi is very adept at manipulating softer forms of earth and could literally take over Sandman's own body.

Piandao is helping him because, in the very small chance that Bumi can't handle these four on his own for any reason, Piandao can help clean up. Even though he's not a bender he is a vastly superior force to most benders, to the point that he once took on one hundred elite Fire Nation soldiers, being called the greatest sword master in history. For reference, this was on Fire Nation soil, but Fire Nation soldiers are so capable in large numbers that Hama, one of the three greatest waterbending masters of her time, had to surrender to an army of firebenders despite the fight taking place in the Southern Water Tribe, where not only were the firebenders weakened by the cold temperature around them, Hama was amplified by that same cold temperature and had complete and total control over the environment around her; essentially, this was among the worst circumstances for this firebending army and they were still too much for Hama to even consider fighting, but Piandao in perfectly fair circumstances defeated a large group of firebenders so badly that they never bothered him again. Essentially placing Piandao close enough with his sword and stats to compare to, if not surpass a legendary waterbending master. This is enough to at least pressure anyone in the Sinister Five.

Iroh and Pakku

Electro's main gimmick is that he can shoot lightning. Iroh can completely negate Electro's lightning attacks with his lightning redirection, which he can then shoot directly back at Electro:

No Caption Provided

And waterbending is an incredible counter to lightning as well. Katara, one of Pakku's students, could block a lightning attack from Azula, who was amplified by Sozin's Comet with a rather small quantity of water, and Pakku has a full lake next to him for this battle to block lightning. The only way Electro can avoid being shot with his own lightning is if he doesn't shoot it anywhere near Iroh, which still wouldn't help since Iroh can generate his own lightning.

Jeong Jeong's main contribution is that he can provide cover for his friends with firewalls raised from the earth. This ensures that at least Ock and Lizard can't cross through, and he can do raise these flames in a ring to restrict movement wholly.

Summary

Bumi and Piandao will take out 4/5 of your team, Iroh and Pakku will beat the leftover, and Jeong Jeong is leftover to help anyone who can't help themselves, somehow.

Looking forward to your post.

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PepsiMan-

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God_Vulcan

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Spider-Man's Greatest Fiends!

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

"They're a danger to our universe" - Stephen Strange

The three biggest threats here are Goblin, Sandman and Electro to absolutely nobody's surprise, everyone knows who they are, here's why they win:

Courtesy of @rajjarsalt to writing the first 2 sections but he got bored of writing in archaic and made me do the rest:

._.

Reading thy posteth i'm noticing a distinct want of counteth'r f'r arguably thigh most dangerous opponent:

The Flying Elf!
The Flying Elf!

Equipp'd with gadgets yond wonneth't beest did invent in the primitive timeline of the group of boomers you represent for centuries that gent holds a pow'rful element of hoyday over thy team. Alloweth us to analyzeth:

Controlled Explosives
Controlled Explosives

A sup'rsonic glider yond can eff'rtlessly flyeth through the explosion of a'rospace exoskeleton, bombs yond can ravish and killeth enemies from behind the comf'rm of bombeth proof bunk'rs.

Machine Guns
Machine Guns

Imagineth how many bendetherrs Amon and his cronies couldst moweth down with an automatic weapon. Trust Mordern Warfare!

Disentigration bombs
Disentigration bombs

Disintegration! a charm unheard of within thigh realm!

Razor Bats
Razor Bats

Flying spindles of death!

And alloweth's not f'rget the big bertha!

No Caption Provided

A bawling gust of modern weaponry. Most likely enow to vaporize most if 't be true not ev'ry boomer

I'm yet to be beholden to an argument about how to deal with the arsenal of the flying devil or how to neutralize him. Nevertheless, patience I have and with that patience I will wait!

Electro:

"It's my birthday. Now it's time to light my candles."

Power:

Electro in his final form is more powerful than ever. Trust Spider-Man!

Andrew Garfield: How do we stop him? I've never seen him this powerful.

Tom Holland: It's the arc reactor. We gotta get it off him.

Three coordinated Spider-Men could not even lay a hand on Electro as he teleports out of the way and fries them with electricity as they try and close in:

with the exception of maybe Iroh, Electro would barbeque your group of grandpas with singular blasts

The Sandman:

No Caption Provided

The Sandman possesses the superhuman ability to convert his body into sand by mental command. The sand functions identically to, as well as appears to be, normal flesh. However, he can convert all or parts of his body into animated sand at will. His brain has attained subliminal awareness of all granulated particles of his body. Through conscious effort, he can affect the degree of molecular cohesion between the numerous adjoining surfaces of his particles and thus cause locomotion of discrete volumes, down to the individual grains.

-Wiki

Sandman can manipulate Sand to form himself into various shapes and forms, since he doesn't have a solid figure putting him down will be a nightmare. He is also quite durable and can shield teammates with his figure:

Shields Spider-Man from a blast that was tearing up the ground - Proof that he can tank elemental attacks from everyone aside from Pakku
Shields Spider-Man from a blast that was tearing up the ground - Proof that he can tank elemental attacks from everyone aside from Pakku

earlier I showed him holding Electro incased in his figure of sand, granted not for long but still noteworthy.

With enough Sand he can dish out powerful attacks, easily throws around armored cars with sand constructs:

In his sixty feet giant form the force of his punches create powerful shockwaves that shake the ground where the news reporters are standing and are felt all the way up where Mary Jane is strung up:

Counters

🗡️

Essentially placing Piandao close enough with his sword and stats to compare to, if not surpass a legendary waterbending master. This is enough to at least pressure anyone in the Sinister Five.

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My team consists of a:

  • A superhuman dinosaur who can regenerate entire limbs in seconds
  • A guy with 4 mechanical arms each individually being strong enough to outmuscle Spider-Man
  • A guy made of Sand? What is a sword gonna do to a guy made of sand?
  • A dude made out of electricity who can fly...
  • Another dude with missiles, grenades, bullets and batanrags

A dude with a sword regardless of how skilled he might be can't even touch/hurt three of my characters - cannot do any permenant damage to another one and at best with the highest levels of wank might be able to get some slashes on Doc Ock. This didn't even need a section to mock, so I'll just say Electro electrocutes him, Sandman slaps him silly and Goblin just shoots him.

🔥

Jeong Jeong's main contribution is that he can provide cover for his friends with firewalls raised from the earth. This ensures that at least Ock and Lizard can't cross through, and he can do raise these flames in a ring to restrict movement wholly.

Yea this is his only contribution and it doesn't even affect three out the five characters. Goblin and Electro can fly over these and Sandman can walk over them and/or put them out. Practically useless

Electro's main gimmick is that he can shoot lightning. Iroh can completely negate Electro's lightning attacks with his lightning redirection, which he can then shoot directly back at Electro:

This isn't really gonna do anything though. In TASM 2, an entire power grid was needed to overload Electro who was already juiced on the electricity from all of New York. In No Way Home he has an arc reactor which allows him to store even more energy than that - Speaking of arc reactor Electro also has one now which means he can fire powerful blasts of energy that can't be absorbed and redirected with lightning bending:

Also he's not limited to shooting lightning, he physically attacked and lunged at people in NWH against Tom Holland's Peter and more notably Garfield's when he had difficulty hitting both with lightning. He is physically strong enough to shred asphalt with his own body and Spider-Man's as well as destroy metal towers.

🌊

And waterbending is an incredible counter to lightning as well. Katara, one of Pakku's students,could block a lightning attack from Azula, who was amplified by Sozin's Cometwith a rather small quantity of water, and Pakku has a full lake next to him for this battle to block lightning.

A weaker version of Electro is able to vaporize a large quantity of water and create a shockwave several meters big in the process, should Pakku use such tactics he'd get flung backwards from the shockwave and unlike Spider-Man he probably wouldn't tank it as well. Water isn't gonna be as effective as you think

🗿

Sand Bending:

Firstly sand bending is canonically noted to be more difficult to manipulate due to its nature:

Well, I don't seethe way you do. I feel the vibrations in the ground with my feet. [Closer shot of the two. Toph picks up a handful of sand and lets it fall.] But this sand is so loose and shifty, it makes everything look fuzzy. Not that there's anything wrong with fuzzy.

so manipulating those rocks isn't gonna be as easy to bend as Sandman's whole being who by the way can manipulate a lot of sand (His head reached the top of the statue of Liberty in the final battle) which implies he can manipulate enough sand to become around 85 meters more or less at the very least.

,_,

Your team has a distinct lack of counter to a lot of Green Goblin's gear, not only are they almost entirely unfamilar with it aside from "basic knowledge" per CaV conditions" but it's also pretty difficult to see your team being able to properly defend themselves from bullets, explosives and spinning wheels of death with elements since they themselves can't actually tank any of it. I think the entirity of my team can oneshot every member of yours with one good attack and I don't think you're gonna disagree.

Assuming you prove Bumi can manipulate Sandman it still leaves him open to get blasted by Green Goblin or Electro, the only person on your team with the ability to counter the latter is Iroh and I've shown that he is vulnerable to other means of attacks.

My team basically has a lot more practical means of winning against yours and that's why they win.

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Alphamon

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Not bad

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Edgelord91

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TAEP