CAV: Sightless's Alita vs Sirfizzwizz's Ventress "Voting!"

The Combatants

Vs

Location

Rules

TK is limited to whats inside the boundaries of the Arena

No BFR

Alita is in Imaginos 1.0

Morals on

Win by K.O. or Death

@sirfizzwhizz All set, if there's anything you wanna add to the rules feel free before we start.

@sightlessreality:

Lets start this.

Ventress is a witch of Dathomire as per the Canon. She has two convulsed histories of her origin and how she came to be. The end result is the same though. She in both origins finds her way to Dooku, who then trains her to be the best force using assassin she can be. Under his guidance, she became a Sith as powerful as Darth Maul, or Savage Opress by the end. She is a proven warrior who gave Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker a hard time in every encounter. She has completed impossible suicide missions for Dooku against the efforts of Jedi everywhere. She is awesome.

Gear

She brings to this fight two special Lightsabers with Curve Hilts. These hilts provide special accuracy for her prefer Lightsaber styles, and greater control.

They also can be connected for a double bladed Lightsaber.

Skills

Here fighting styles known are Shii Cho, Niman/Jarkai, and Makashi.

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Shii Cho is the main base work of using a Lightsaber, something she would have learn under her original Master who was a Jedi. While this form is enough to fight with alone, it is only a gorund work form for deflecting projectile, saber attacks, and feeling the force while in combat.

Makashi is the style she heavily trained in from Dooku, the best Makashi master in the Clone Wars. Her curve Lightsabers reflect this very much, allowing great control of attacks. Makashi is all about Lightsaber on weapon combat. Mainly other lightsabers but serves as a great form against any weapon.

Before meeting Dooku, Ventress was a near master of Jar Kai which is from the Niman Lightsaber form. Niman is a jack of all trades, master of none style. Very flexible, but not superior. It is the form that Jar Kai is a part of, the use of two Lightsabers at one time, which Ventress was a near master of already.

All these style blend together for Ventress in a very unique style that allows her to fight the best fighters in the galaxy, and win more often than not. She has beaten the likes of several unspecified Jedi Padawans and Jedi Knights, Jedi Master Luminara, Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master Kit Fisto, and General Grievous. She has many times stalemated people for lengths of time likes of both Anakin and Obi Wan together, Count Dooku, Jedi Master Plo Koon, and sparred with Mace Windu.

The point is she is one the top 10 duelist of her era. She can also use Hand to Hand very effective as well, taking down multiple Clone Troopers with no Lightsaber or Force Powers, and beaten a dedicated hand to hand martial artist with ease during her bounty hunter days.

Force Abilities

So much can be said for abilities, and I will save alot of it for later this debate as they need to come up. Here is a list of what she has at her disposal though.

• Beast Language
• Precognition/Deflect
• Force Sense
• Force Concealment
• Telekinesis
• Force Choke
• Burst of Speed/Force Leap
• Dark Healing

Most of these are not super useful as per this match, but what she needs and has is more than enough to win this fight. What should be known is access to the force grants her the ability to very much increase her own stats to degree to match.

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This vicious chick can overwhelm Grievous of all people with her skill, speed, and strength. No Force power even needed. Im pretty sure she can match Alita here, and whatever tricks she may pull.

@sirfizzwhizz: Looks good

Before we begin.......

Hows about some character music

Now for the Karmic Warrior to stand up to the plate

Alita, previously known as Yoko Von Der Rasierklinge was sentenced with Atmospheric reentry for causing the Cam Ranh tragedy.

Her upper torso and more importantly her head and brain remained intact until 200 years after where an exiled tipharean, Daisuke Ido discovered her remains and brought her back.

He named her Alita and through the course of 14 years she has slowly regained her passed memories by fighting countless battles.

Panzer Kunst

Alita is a kunstler(practitioner) of the legendary martian martial art of Panzer Kunst and is classed at the Meister(Master) rank.

Panzer Kunst is no ordinary martial art. It utilizes various type of waves that get channeled into an opponents body that in turn causes them to blow up or become paralyzed.

To give an idea of what I mean, here's a brief demonstration

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Hertzer Hauen

This technique focuses on a palm strike that sends supersonic vibrations into the opponent. This results in either destroying or at least stopping an opponents brain or heart but of course can affect any other part of the body. The only way to stop it is to either to be durable enough to withstand the vibrations or to match the wavelength of the vibrations with ones own. This is one of the most basic technique Kunstlers are taught and has even been released to the masses.

Nothing you'v shown me would give me a reason to pull up other techniques so for now this should suffice in taking Ventress down.

The Imaginos 1.0

Until her first resurrection the Imaginos 1.0 was the body Alita used throughout "Last Order". This body was by far her most powerful at that point with only the Berserker & TUNED Body even coming close to it.

This body allowed her great speed.

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This isn't the limit to her speed

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What of her Strength & Durability

To put it simply, she can toss around steel girders with ease and get thrown around like a rag doll by a 100tonner and keep fighting.

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Current Conclusion

Although somewhat impressive, Alita with just her base stats & one of the most basic Panzer Kunst Techniques should be more then enough to take Ventress down.

@sightlessreality: Done editing?

@sirfizzwhizz: You may proceed. And good luck. :)

@sightlessreality: See, this is a interesting match, although I feel you conclusion is partially right.

Alita with just her base stats & one of the most basic Panzer Kunst Techniques should be more then enough to take Ventress down.

Alita Stats can win a fight against Ventress stats, good thing stats is not what makes Ventress the deadliest opponent Alita ever face. This is a interesting battle becuase Alita can one shot Ventress, and Ventress can like wise easy kill Alita.

Light Sabers

Lets get into the weapons in more detail. Alita has super insane strength, and durability to blunt force damage, but Ventress is not depending on blunt damage here. Her weapons will one shot and decimate Alita alone.

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Lightsaber are not heat generating in the traditional sense, and only specific Star Wars made metals ever withstand a Lightsaber. Unless Alita has Energy base shields or force fields, Im not seeing her fairing well against this weapon. Ventress has two of these weapons.

Speed vs Precog, Senses, and Skill.

Your character may very well be the faster, but this is not a big deal, it just makes the match fair lol. Why I say fair? To start, Ventress has Force Senses, and Precognition like all Jedi.

Force Senses grant a degree of super human senses which helps alot in any fast pace fight. Many Jedi can see the world in slow motion in the super sonic range as well. Since Ventress competes with the fastest and best Jedi of the era, I think its safe to say she sees the world in slow motion.

Force users all have Precognition to various degrees of effectiveness. This is also why all Jedi can fight blind and deflect blaster fire with their eyes covered.

Like so, all part of the very basic Shii Cho Lightsaber training.

Finally, Ventress slightly slower speed is compensated by sheer skill gap. Alita fought some good foes, and shown to know a single unique Martial Art, but Ventress knows several unique arts. She has competed and even beaten the best of the best of fighters of Star Wars galaxy. She is fighting somone who never seen her moves or styles. Not too mention the force attacks Ventress will throw in.

With these skills and abilities Ventress can foght and dominate multiple Jedi in a fight. Allows her to match the strongest Jedi or Sith in a fight.

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Ventress has shown to easily take on multiple Precog, Super Speed Jedi at the same time.

She has taken on a few time both Anakin and Obi Wan. Her she fights both of them at the same time while injured! That is the degree of skill.

So while Alita may be the faster by feats, Ventress still easily counters it with her own speeds thanks to her Skill, Precog, and Force Senses.

This alone is enough to match, and win this fight. Not even touching Force Powers yet.

@sirfizzwhizz: Your going to find out soon enough Electromagnetism is something Alita's quite familiar with. :D

I'll be starting my post sometime tonight or tomorrow.

Sounds good. So far the stat advantage can swing either way.

I'm not sure I need to bring up a certain thing Alita has that would easily match those Lightsabers. So I'll just be bringing up two things.

Since your down playing Alita's Skill

Alita has defeated countless masters. All of which whose forms were created after she was sentenced with reentry. In other words, despite being introduced to new forms Alita still over comes them. Moreover, her full skill potential has yet to be revealed as with each memory gained Alita's skill goes up.

Alita can read the Kizashi & Chi

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So basically, just like Ventress, she also has a form of precog. So that cuts away the possible advantage.

However, allow to address speed one more time.

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In the next few scans, Alita remarks the speed of two swords

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I still have yet to bring in the biggest factor, but I still firmly believe the for the most part. Alita has the skill & speed necessary to take down Ventress. And as you'v already admitted. One shot is all it would take.

@sightlessreality: is it my turn?

@sirfizzwhizz: Sorry, been preoccupied be a few other tournaments. I'll have the post finished today or tomorrow at the latest.

Cool

@sirfizzwhizz: Post done.

@sightlessreality:

Alita has defeated countless masters. All of which whose forms were created after she was sentenced with reentry. In other words, despite being introduced to new forms Alita still over comes them. Moreover, her full skill potential has yet to be revealed as with each memory gained Alita's skill goes up.

While combat experience is successful, the fact is I see nothing but one form of Martial Art she learn. Ventress has several styles Alita never encountered, and tons of combat experience against the best fighters of the Galaxy.

Alita can read the Kizashi & Chi

So basically, just like Ventress, she also has a form of precog. So that cuts away the possible advantage.

This is a nice attempt, but wont work from how I am reading it. Ventress has true real limited precog, can see the limited future via Farsight. Your scan is a form of Soul/Mind reading. Not the same at all.

Ventress has a defense against this if were arguing a neutral universe. Ventress Force Concealment.

Her skill is so great that she has repeatedly fooled the Jedi Senses of Anakin, Dooku, Mace Windu, Obi Wan, and more during the Clone Wars. She has stood face to face with Dooku before, and he never noticed until she dropped the Concealment.

There is only one time I seen her read through the living force in comics, and it was hard for this very powerful Force base Jedi. Unless Alita is a galaxy sense spanning mind reader, Im not seeing her getting into Ventress's head/spirit.

However, allow to address speed one more time.

In the next few scans, Alita remarks the speed of two swords

I still have yet to bring in the biggest factor, but I still firmly believe the for the most part. Alita has the skill & speed necessary to take down Ventress. And as you'v already admitted. One shot is all it would take.

Well better bring out your big guns next :) Ventress should be immune to your characters body/chi reading, and have the perception time to predict and counter with her own super sonic combat speeds.

Like I said, her reaction time can casually deflect multiple blaster bolts with perfect accuracy back at their targets, after the blasters are fired at her no less. She even reacts to lightning from Dooku. She can keep up with her skill, combat speed, and precog.

One lightsaber dismemberment will end the fight as it is. So you pull out your big guns, and I will pull out mine :)

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@sightlessreality:

Alita has defeated countless masters. All of which whose forms were created after she was sentenced with reentry. In other words, despite being introduced to new forms Alita still over comes them. Moreover, her full skill potential has yet to be revealed as with each memory gained Alita's skill goes up.

While combat experience is successful, the fact is I see nothing but one form of Martial Art she learn. Ventress has several styles Alita never encountered, and tons of combat experience against the best fighters of the Galaxy.

Alita can read the Kizashi & Chi

So basically, just like Ventress, she also has a form of precog. So that cuts away the possible advantage.

This is a nice attempt, but wont work from how I am reading it. Ventress has true real limited precog, can see the limited future via Farsight. Your scan is a form of Soul/Mind reading. Not the same at all.

Ventress has a defense against this if were arguing a neutral universe. Ventress Force Concealment.

Her skill is so great that she has repeatedly fooled the Jedi Senses of Anakin, Dooku, Mace Windu, Obi Wan, and more during the Clone Wars. She has stood face to face with Dooku before, and he never noticed until she dropped the Concealment.

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There is only one time I seen her read through the living force in comics, and it was hard for this very powerful Force base Jedi. Unless Alita is a galaxy sense spanning mind reader, Im not seeing her getting into Ventress's head/spirit.

However, allow to address speed one more time.

In the next few scans, Alita remarks the speed of two swords

I still have yet to bring in the biggest factor, but I still firmly believe the for the most part. Alita has the skill & speed necessary to take down Ventress. And as you'v already admitted. One shot is all it would take.

Well better bring out your big guns next :) Ventress should be immune to your characters body/chi reading, and have the perception time to predict and counter with her own super sonic combat speeds.

Like I said, her reaction time can casually deflect multiple blaster bolts with perfect accuracy back at their targets, after the blasters are fired at her no less. She even reacts to lightning from Dooku. She can keep up with her skill, combat speed, and precog.

One lightsaber dismemberment will end the fight as it is. So you pull out your big guns, and I will pull out mine :)

Don't even need to address new things.

Yes, your only seeing one. So? It is not the amount one knows, it is how one uses what they know. And considering Alita has a mantal handy cap when she fights other masters. That is a show of just how skilled she is when she beats them. And your take goes both ways, Ventress has never faced Panzer Kunst & although her own forms are new to Alita. They still at the end of the day make a difference.

Problem there too, Alita & the other person are both Cyborgs, there is no soul or mind reading involved. At least not like in Star Wars. There similar in result but different in practice.

Your blaster feats only show a few shots being fired. One the other hand. It's very clear there's more then dozens of those dagger. Alita is not losing in a battle of speed. Not unless you have Hyper Sonic level speed & above. Like a certain Vampire does.

So again, I see nothing I need to add. So you better show some better stuff.

@sightlessreality:

Yes, your only seeing one. So? It is not the amount one knows, it is how one uses what they know. And considering Alita has a mantal handy cap when she fights other masters. That is a show of just how skilled she is when she beats them. And your take goes both ways, Ventress has never faced Panzer Kunst & although her own forms are new to Alita. They still at the end of the day make a difference.

I will let voters decide. I think Ventress is more skilled, you do not.

Problem there too, Alita & the other person are both Cyborgs, there is no soul or mind reading involved. At least not like in Star Wars. There similar in result but different in practice.

Cyborgs are not robots, and in Warhammer 40K Cyborgs have souls, and mental patterns for Psychics. Heck Xavier in X-Men comic psychically assaulted a robot with thinking abilities. In your scans is states "Chii; Focused Mental Energy/Life Force." or as another stated, "Mental and Physical Strength." That is what your scan states.

By your scans definition, Ventress can and should be immune to it.

Your blaster feats only show a few shots being fired. One the other hand. It's very clear there's more then dozens of those dagger. Alita is not losing in a battle of speed. Not unless you have Hyper Sonic level speed & above. Like a certain Vampire does.

I never said Ventress is faster, I stated she can move and react after those blasters were fired. The Blasters were fired first, and she casually moves and reacts in such a way to send the blasters back at their targets. Thats speed. The fact Ventress keeps up with Obi Wan, Anakin, and Dooku in battles shows how fast she is. She is clearly not far off in speed. Add in her skill, and precog, its a sure thing she will match Alita.

So again, I see nothing I need to add. So you better show some better stuff.

Since I started this, I might as well finish it :)

IMO the match is pretty even as it is. However the is one real reason why Ventress wins a majority. Force powers. Those damn force powers. Force TK is a hard thing to compete with.

Able to create a whirlwind of shredding sharp objects.

Her TK is pretty strong, in the easy multi tons. Able to fling and throw objects of great weight at speeds that even the top Jedo have trouble reacting to.

Ask Anakin.

Anyway there is more I can go on, and on this battlefield, its a edge, but I will wait to see what else you have for the argument.

@sirfizzwhizz:

I will let voters decide. I think Ventress is more skilled, you do not.

Fair enough

Cyborgs are not robots, and in Warhammer 40K Cyborgs have souls, and mental patterns for Psychics. Heck Xavier in X-Men comic psychically assaulted a robot with thinking abilities. In your scans is states "Chii; Focused Mental Energy/Life Force." That is what your scan states.

By your scans definition, Ventress can and should be immune to it.

Weak argument, bringing in different verses doesn't back up your claim but allow to squelch your argument.

There is no actual mind reading being involved. Yes it says reading but reading doesn't have to be literal here. In this case, predicting would be a better assessment. By understanding how the opponent generally moves, one can understand there movements before they happen. In the case of Chi, as it's defined and shown. It takes that knowledge and assesses what the best course of action the user should take to have the best result for themselves.

Case in point. The scan that I provided with the definitions is just right before Gavit unleashes is 400 punches a second move. If you notice the last scan, Sechs(the little doll guy) remarks that Alita avoided the first strike and snuck into the chest area where it was the safest for her. It would also end up having the most impact for her. As seen in these follow up scans.

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In other words, she read the Chi and found the best possible action.

I never said Ventress is faster, I stated she can move and react after those blasters were fired. The Blasters were fired first, and she casually moves and reacts in such a way to send the blasters back at their targets. Thats speed. The fact Ventress keeps up with Obi Wan, Anakin, and Dooku in battles shows how fast she is. She is clearly not far off in speed. Add in her skill, and precog, its a sure thing she will match Alita.

I meant overall speed., Reaction, Combat and travel. You say she's almost equal but breaking the sound barrier multiple times with her arms alone while deflecting dozens if not hundreds of daggers says otherwise. She'd have to see in slow motion too in order to accurately react to that. Which is well established in the scan right before she deflects them.

Addressing Tk

Everything shown is something Alita could either literally tank to the face, dodge, or deflect.

However, lets bring in two more things for Alita

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Made out of a composite metal alloy, these blades are nearly as strong as diamond & insanely sharp. Easily cutting through nearly any material. Such as cutting a space ship in half.

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A above super sonic punch amplified by an electromagnetic field. The force is so great that it literally turns what every it hits into high speed shrapnel. This is not a one off punch and Alita has used it consistently.

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So with these two things. Alita is once again at the advantage. Your move.

@sightlessreality:

Weak argument, bringing in different verses doesn't back up your claim but allow to squelch your argument.

Im not sure why not, thats how we debate on here. We do not follow the rules of one universe over another in a multi fiction showdown. Thus we use Neutral universe. I see no reason why you power would work like your claiming it would base on how Mental/Life Energies are avoided by Ventress's force concealment.

There is no actual mind reading being involved. Yes it says reading but reading doesn't have to be literal here. In this case, predicting would be a better assessment. By understanding how the opponent generally moves, one can understand there movements before they happen. In the case of Chi, as it's defined and shown. It takes that knowledge and assesses what the best course of action the user should take to have the best result for themselves.

Case in point. The scan that I provided with the definitions is just right before Gavit unleashes is 400 punches a second move. If you notice the last scan, Sechs(the little doll guy) remarks that Alita avoided the first strike and snuck into the chest area where it was the safest for her. It would also end up having the most impact for her. As seen in these follow up scans.

In other words, she read the Chi and found the best possible action.

Im am going bu the definition. It clearly states in the scans you provided to be a mental thing. Reading or not, its a mental ability as I underlined in my post above, and Ventress has great mental resistance and even hides herself in plain sight to powerful mental powers.

Its not reliable to use against Ventress IMO.

I meant overall speed., Reaction, Combat and travel. You say she's almost equal but breaking the sound barrier multiple times with her arms alone while deflecting dozens if not hundreds of daggers says otherwise. She'd have to see in slow motion too in order to accurately react to that. Which is well established in the scan right before she deflects them.

Yes, Alita is overall faster. Thats not a instant win though by any means. Ventress reaction speed is top notch. Which is what really matters. She see things in slow motion, and thinks faster than blaster bolts can travel a short distance to her. Her Precog makes this more effective.

Seriously, she is fast enough to appear as a blur of impossible fast light to Obi Wan's own eyes, a mind numbing blur to Obi Wan of all people, and he has great reaction time too. With her skill and precog, she is not being blitzed by any means.

In the end though all that speed and strength is useless as I am about to show.

Addressing Tk

Everything shown is something Alita could either literally tank to the face, dodge, or deflect.

However, lets bring in two more things for Alita

Made out of a composite metal alloy, these blades are nearly as strong as diamond & insanely sharp. Easily cutting through nearly any material. Such as cutting a space ship in half.

A above super sonic punch amplified by an electromagnetic field. The force is so great that it literally turns what every it hits into high speed shrapnel. This is not a one off punch and Alita has used it consistently.

So with these two things. Alita is once again at the advantage. Your move.

Its true, the TK is useless if Ventress just used it on objects. However in Star Wars everyone has what is called force defenses. This allows Force TK and other attacks become less effective on users, thus why Jedi/Sith do not simply get ragdolled around. Thus why Ventress uses TK to move objects instead straight TK on Jedi alone. Your character does not have this.

Some examples of the Force Directly use to push back the powerful Anakin, or suspend Obiwan and Anakin at the same time, or simply rag doll 4 pirates. Your character has no defense to these attacks.

She can litteraly just grab Alita off the bat, and manipulate her however she likes. Making her pretty much helpless to be rag dolled.

Or Ventress can use the Force to crush Alita's brains, weapons, joints. She is a easy 30+ toner by feats against TK with Anakin, or objects thrown around.

She shows the ability to target internals like this very powerful in the force Jedi's heart.

She can suspend Alita and TK her Lightsabers to dice Alita up.

All this are for sure ways of winning in the end should Ventress go these routs. Thats game either way, just suspend, rag doll, or crush internals pieces for a win.

Final Conclusions

• Ventress skills, precog, and Blaster combat speeds is enough to keep up and maybe even win mere hand to hand.
• Ventress has battle field control period with her TK. Forcing Alita to maneuver around get cut up by debris.
• Ventress has the ability to slice Alita apart with her Lightsabers, forcing Alita to dodge attacks rather than tanking anything.
• Ventress may be able to crush vital parts internally in Alita.
• Ventress can knock Alita back with Force pushes easy for safe distance anyway, and can for sure rag doll Alita all together with TK alone.

I would side with Ventress for a majority. She is well enough to match as it is. After your reply we can go to votes.

@sirfizzwhizz: Since you still keep assuming it's mental I will once again prove that your wrong.

Going purely by the definition is understandable but you also have to actually take into account "how" it's being shown.

In the above Jashugan's is assessing Alita's body looking for the weakest point to effect to give him the best result. This is right before The other person defines chi. But of course his definition isn't as accurate (from a literal standpoint) as the actual result.

So again Alita will be able to read Ventress. There is literally no mind reading involved.

Once again your Tk argument falls short

Alita has no organs to exploit, the only one she thought she had was a brain but that was not the case.

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Her brain was the last bastion so to speak. Every other part of her was purely robotic but that turned out to not to be the case. So for all intensive purposes Alita is an Android.

This means unlike those poor saps getting force choked, Alita won't be affected by it and actually have her arms free to kill Ventress. As she has no exploitable organs that too will be ineffective. Moreover, Her body as a whole is super durable so crushing any part of her is unlikely.

And Finally, Plasma & Electromagnetism

Just one of the ways Alita uses her plasma. These alone should be enough to counter your lightsabers but lets go a bit further

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In the above scans show case that even for a bit, Alita can match the robots electromagnetic field with her own. This in of itself puts her leagues above Ventress but as I'm about to show, she surpasses even the robot.

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In other words, Alita could literally kill Ventress with her own sabers if it came to that.

In addition she can do things like this.

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But now one final thing before I close this.

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Another Panzer Kunst Technique, one even more dangerous the the"Hertzer Hauen"

Now for the conclusion

1. With all of Alita's Practical "Panzer Kunst" & Plasma techniques, copled with her clearly superior speed, reading, & skill. Ventress has no chance in a hand to hand battle.
2. Alita's massive gap in controlling electromagnetic fields as well as plasma puts her in an easy edge for a plasma vs lightsaber dual.
3. No amount of using the battlefield will a stop Alita, an easy Electromagnetic Punch is more then enough to obliterate anything thrown at her while also turning it into a deadly weapon to kill Ventress
4. As Alita has virtually no real organs and has durability able to withstand a beating by a 100+ toner, along with knowing Panzer Kunst a martial art designed to get passed durability. I feel it safe to say this is not going to do anything to her.
5. Ragdoll her all you want, it won't stop her in the end.

That concludes my assessment.

@sirfizzwhizz

Thread open for voting.

My Call Outs

@reikai@mr_ingenuity@loki_d@dredeuced

@sightlessreality: Has this one with Alita for the above reasons. It's been made clear that Alita is faster by a wide margin. She doesn't have any organic vulnerabilities that Ventress can use against her and, as indicated, Alita could literally use Ventress' own weapons against her to a rather fatal effect.

I will make one notation just as a bit of trivia about the Martial Arts aspect. It is mentioned in BAA:LO that when information about the Panzer Kunst's techniques were leaked, it led to the creation and formation of dozens of other martial arts practices across the solar system.

As it would be noted by Caerula Sanguis and indicated by that MA enthusiast who explains the basic concept of PK, that only the arts superficial moves were ever leaked. That being like those you'd see just walking into a dojo and seeing everyone doing the same thing. The true secrets and techniques employed by Panzer Kunst practitioners remained unknown to all else.

@sightlessreality:

One thing though, your not countering TK even the Force Choke as Ventress can and does just use the TK to hold Alita up helplessly. She does not need to be choked, she can just be stuck airborn, helpless.

Anyway some shout outs. @i_like_swords@wollfmyth209@dccomicsrule2011@boschepg for some shout outs.

@sirfizzwhizz: Actually, I specifically noted the force choke.

This means unlike those poor saps getting force choked, Alita won't be affected by it and actually have her arms free to kill Ventress.

I am going to say that, since Voting has already started, that amounts to little more than a delaying tactic, since Ventress can't support the effort indefinitely, and anything Ventress tries to throw at Alita would be kicked back at her with enough force to turn the Ratattaki into a bloody smear.

And also I'm not seeing how it'd prevent Alita from utilizing an EM-punch whose shockwave by itself would, at the very least, annihilate Ventress' concentration, along with send her flying like a ragdoll.

I see now.

Both debaters did well on the debate.

I have to give props to CV2 on formatting, & info presented. From the debating standpoint I learned a lot more his post.

SightlessReality had plausible counters. CV2 was at a disadvantage from the start, even ignoring the speed debate.

If you want me to expand on my thoughts I will just ask.

@mr_ingenuity: Thanks man, I figure if it helps inform more on my character, its a win anyway for me :)

I wouldn't mind hearing more from you. You'v got more experience then either of us combined.

You definitely did better then me from a formatting standpoint.

I would not go that far, I been on here awhile and pretty confident in my abilities :)

You definitely did better then me from a formatting standpoint.

Thats from years of experience ;)

@sightlessreality: @sirfizzwhizz: alot of uh clutter in this CaV, anyway noting the points and stuff made, i feel Sightless has provided some great counters to sirfizzwhizz said, and honestly could see why Alita would win for obvious reasons, but the down play from both was really unnecessary, and a little more looking into CaV's done by others will show why. Also this is a debate just because someone is better than the other person doesn't mean that the other will instantly lose its an argument after all. With that said I feel my vote should go to sirfizzwhizz as he has displayed some points to which judging from what I've read i feel sight didn't necessary justify enough. anyway as stated before my vote goes to sirfizzwhizz, good job guys.

@killerwasp: Thank you for the input and voting. I'll keep that in mind.

@sightlessreality: Np!

Since you specifically asked, I'll focus on what I thought your debate lacked.

CAV's should always start with an out line of the characters basic stats and abilities. Withholding info from the voters only hurts your counters. Voters shouldn't have to read half way down the page to learn of Alita's plasma and how it's useful.

Character/mindset and strategy. Alita has a lot of techniques to pull from, but how she uses them is far more important the how many she has. Simply mentioning how Alita would view her opponents for possible attack strategies is enough. Alita has so many senses it's not hard to convince anyone of how she would react to incapacitate her opponent, using the least amount of techniques.

While I appreciate the praise,that's not true. I don't put near as much effort into post as CV2.

Dont be so modest, your in the finals!

@mr_ingenuity: I'm sure I defined Kizashi & Chi well but do you think I accurately defined them? I'm guessing by senses you mean Echolocation & Radar?

As for everything else, that's interesting. And does make more sense. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

If you are confident that you represented the source material using proper context. Then you don't need me to second guess you, not that I would do that with votes on going. Now if your intent was to be misleading, calling you on it would be accurate.

I didn't mean specific senses, it wouldn't take much for Alita to know her opponent is flesh and blood. Then try and test her opponent's defences, & durability/endurance with EM punches, or shockwave techniques. What I'm saying is your counters are plausible just lacking in focus.

I vote for @sirfizzwhizz: though it was close and I could see both combatants winning. My only problem is SirFizz overexaggerated Asajj's TK abit and I doubt she can ragdoll Alita. Other than that I feel both have presented some good points and it was really tuff for me to decide, but out ofy belief that Asajj can win this and per the fact that SirFizz presented some major points, I vote for SirFizzWhizz, but nice job both of you.

Voting currently

Sightless 1 vs SirFizzWhizz 2

@sirfizzwhizz First to 10 or First to 5?

First to 5 is fine. GG.

A few more tags

@thatguywithheadphones @jacthripper@dedmanwalkin

@sightlessreality: I'll vote in a bit, but just so you know, I read the first 50 chapters of the Gamer manga today, good stuff.

@jacthripper: Awesome sauce. Glad you've liked it so far. :)