CaV: Shang-Chi (ShenKuei) vs Leon Kennedy (NickZ)

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nickzambuto

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#1  Edited By nickzambuto
The Master of Kung-Fu, Shang-Chi
The Master of Kung-Fu, Shang-Chi
Hotshot Government Agent and monster killer extraordinaire, Leon Scott Kennedy
Hotshot Government Agent and monster killer extraordinaire, Leon Scott Kennedy
  • In character
  • Basic knowledge
  • To death/ko/incap
  • Fully armed
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BATTLE AT CLIFFSIDE

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ShenKuei

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#2  Edited By ShenKuei

The Master of getting thrown off cliffs

BATTLE AT CLIFFSIDE

Hilarious. @nickzambuto do you want to go first?

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Wolverine008

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Might as well have Gorgon show up and just fling Shang off the cliff again.

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AllStarSuperman

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looks cool

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nickzambuto

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@shenkuei: I'd rather you start things up on this one.

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tparks

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Tag me for votes.

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SheenLantern

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#8  Edited By SheenLantern

Goddamn it, now I need to reinstall RE4...

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ShenKuei

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alessandro_souzamarques

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Should be good.

Might as well have Gorgon show up and just fling Shang off the cliff again.

lmao.

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ShenKuei

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#11  Edited By ShenKuei

@nickzambuto:

Shang-chi is the son of the infamous villain, Fu Manchu. He was trained from birth to be the ultimate weapon. A master of numerous fighting styles, Shang-chi is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest hand to hand combatants in the Marvel universe.

The Master of Kung Fu
The Master of Kung Fu

Let me start off with the basics. While Shang-chi has no superhuman powers so to speak he is capable of feats that would put him in the "peak human" range or even above that in some cases.

He hits hard enough to destroy robots with his bare hands:

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He can easily break a man's leg with one kick, even if he is wearing armored boots. Hard enough for blood to spray out:

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If Leon takes a hit like that he is pretty much done. And Shang-chi is more than skilled enough to land that hit. Here he fights evenly with Iron Fist in a deathmatch. At first, they're reluctant, but the guy in charge is a martial artist and forces them to fight for real:

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This martial artist watches Shang-chi take care of a mugger and has already seen enough to know Shang-chi is a master. Shang-chi predicted the mugger's every move and executed moves in at least 3 separate styles while mixing in aspects of tao, aikido, karate and kung fu. All within a fight that lasted a few seconds:

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If Leon manages to get extremely lucky and gets a hit in...it won't do much. Shang-chi is very durable. gorgon throws him dozens of feet into a ceramic roof and Shang-chi is barely fazed:

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Piercing damage doesn't even seem to bother him, so a knife stab or two is hardly an issue:

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Of course, Leon has guns. They'll be of no help against Shang-chi. Shang-chi can dodge a stream of gunfire while the bullets are inches from his face. While caught by surprise. Leon can't keep up with this level of speed:

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Shang-chi is the kind of character where "casual bullet timer" is truly 100% applicable:

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He can even block bullets with his bracers if necessary:

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Not that Leon will have his guns for long anyway. Shang-chi can disarm four men almost instantly, while dodging bullets:

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If Leon goes for the knife next, he'll end up like Paladin did. Take note that Paladin has enhanced strength, reflexes etc. and he still gets owned. While Shang-chi is holding his breath (to avoid the gas) no less:

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Summary

Shang-chi has huge advantages in all physical attributes, especially strength and speed. He is by far more skilled as a martial artist. He can, block, deflect or counter anything Leon throws at him and would have no trouble disarming him (if that were necessary). Once Shang-chi brings the fight to h2h it's over. Leon will be devastated within one or two blows and he doesn't have the skill to even delay Shang-chi in that situation. Shang-chi cleans up here in short order.

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mickey-mouse

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#12  Edited By mickey-mouse

Might as well have Gorgon show up and just fling Shang off the cliff again.

No Caption Provided

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NukeA6

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Are these the comic debate version of spectactor sports?

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ShenKuei

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@nukea6 said:

Are these the comic debate version of spectactor sports?

Basically yeah. Usually people will get to vote when it's over.

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nickzambuto

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#15  Edited By nickzambuto

@shenkuei: (Unfinished post, please do not reply just yet)

Shang-Chi is obviously a well-versed martial artist, but before anything else I want to stress the fact that oriental does not equate to more skilled. Leon Scott Kennedy is one of the most highly trained agents the entire U.S. Government has to offer, with experience as part of the Special Forces, the Secret Service, the Division of Security Operations, and S.W.A.T. At a young age he ranked within the top 10 percentile of the police academy, and with nearly two decades of experience since then his skills have only grown. He's the elite among the elite, the man people go to for missions where an army isn't enough. The president himself has stated that Leon just might be the single greatest fighter on the planet, with the only man known to rival him being the legendary Chris Redfield, a universally revered soldier in his own right. I know Shang-Chi has a lot of martial arts knowledge, but anybody who knows what their talking about can tell you that a 15th century Japanese ninja or kung-fu master wouldn't stand a chance in a head-on confrontation with any modern Marine. Martial arts techniques are not automatically superior to military techniques. Application is what matters, I know Shang-Chi is infinitely above any random ninja and that this will probably be the fight of Leon's life, but in the end, the agent's quick thinking and versatility will overcome the master of kung-fu. Ada's report on Leon should give everybody an idea of what the agent is capable of, and sums up the various skills he possesses that I believe will lead to his victory.

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Strategy

Let's start with Leon's obvious advantage: Weaponry. The constant comparisons between Leon and cannon fodder in your post is slightly insulting, but I understand considering that's who the majority of Shang-Chi's feats are against (buuuuurn!). Regardless, the fact remains that every single one of those bullet dodging scans is against nameless goons without a day of training in their life, and only the first one is actually bullet timing. Don't get me wrong the feats are impressive, but nothing beyond what I would expect from a peak human. For the sake of argument, Leon is pretty quick when it comes to projectiles too.

Leon and Ashley

Leon outraces crossbow bolts while towing Ashley.

Leon vs Krauser

Leon outruns Krauser's aim, impressive considering Krauser is an experienced soldier with several fantastic accuracy feats to his name.

Leon

Leon evades fire from over a dozen trained soldiers simultaneously. It looks to me like Leon doesn't move until after the soldiers start firing, which would make this bullet timing, but if you see it differently I won't argue. However keep in mind this same group was skilled enough to shoot and kill a superhuman Licker moments later, so even aim dodging against them is very impressive as Lickers are quick enough to weave through automatic gunfire and move faster than normal people can see.

Leon and Helena

Leon and Helena dodge bullets from numerous soldiers after the guns were fired.

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Most impressive of all, Leon reacted fast enough to run across a room and save Ada from a bullet after the gun was already fired.

So that's at least two feats of reacting after the bullets were fired, arguably three, and several more feats of impressive aim dodging. I really don't think Shang is at any advantage here, the comic book art makes his feats seem more fancy, but really he and Leon are basically doing the same things, just that the bullets Leon dodges are fired by characters with training.

But I shouldn't waste my time comparing their bullet dodging feats. After all, Shang doesn't have a gun, so it doesn't matter whether or not Leon can dodge bullets. What's more important is Leon's marksmanship vs Shang's movement speed.

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First and foremost is handguns, Leon's most basic weapon. The master of kung-fu has never had much trouble dodging pistol fire from grunts, but Leon's marksmanship is in a whole different game entirely. He's easily capable of sniping with a handgun, scoring headshots from over fifty yards while barely taking the time to aim. I doubt any of those untrained thugs could come anywhere close to this precision.

RE4 Salazar Knifed

Leon Saves Ada

Leon vs Krauser

Leon Grapple

He's even accurate enough to hit targets considerable distances away just by throwing objects, particularly his knife. While I don't see Leon tagging Shang with a throwing knife anytime soon, it does serve as a testament to his ability with firearms.

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Besides just being unskilled, it's also important to note that all of Shang-Chi's bullet dodging feats were against simple handguns, considerably easier to evade than automatic gunfire. Assuming the master of kung-fu is too quick for Leon's pistol, which I admit he very well might be, Leon is also equipped with various rifles and sub-machine guns, which he wields skillfully enough to land pinpoint precision shots on the small leaks of gasoline in that truck.

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If Leon is equipped with his Chicago Typewriter, Shang had better run, simple as that. This fully automatic tommy gun has infinite ammo and a firepower of 10 points per bullet; enough to kill the powerful Chief Mendez in a matter of seconds.

Obviously it's going to be considerably more difficult to avoid automatic fire compared to single handgun shots; as skilled as Shang-Chi is I don't think he's ever displayed the speed to basically weave through automatic gunfire. Really all Leon needs to do is just keep his finger on the trigger and keep spraying; perhaps Shang could outpace the shooter if he was a regular mobster, but considering the obvious skill with which Leon wields his weapons, that won't be an option.

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Alternately Leon has the means to use area-of-effect tactics with his RPG and grenade launcher, the former of which he was skillful enough to shoot Saddler directly through his eyeface while the appendage was waving around erratically, compensating for the movement and the speed of the missile, and the latter he was capable of blasting a specific section of the high platform with perfect timing to crush the G-Monster, showing his accuracy in conjunction with his tactical and situational awareness.

I could go on about Leon's weaponry all day, but just to cover my corners let me assume the worst and say Shang-Chi manages to bring it close quarters. Not the end of the world, you seriously underestimate Leon to say Shang-Chi would actually oneshot him. That's ridiculous, Shang-Chi is strong but again the feats you've shown are standard peak human fair. Leon's stats are nearing super soldier levels. I gotta run at the moment, but I'll briefly get into it soon.

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nickzambuto

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@shenkuei: Like I said, Leon Kennedy's physical abilities are not to be underestimated. Ever since Resident Evil 4 when the series took a more action oriented route, Leon became a full-fledged super soldier, invading hostile nations singlehandedly like a real one man army and pulling off all kinds of crazy stuns constantly. In regards to Shang-Chi, the way you described it in your post is perfect, "While Shang-chi has no superhuman powers so to speak he is capable of feats that would put him in the "peak human" range or even above in some cases." While I disagree with the "even above peak human" comment, there's no denying that Shang-Chi's martial prowess has an effect on his physical skills, what with karate chopping through robots and the like. However, even if his physical skills are a bit more refined, Leon as a super soldier still has far more raw power than Shang can keep up with. To give you an idea of just how physically capable Leon is, on several occasions he has been able to wrestle with and even over power super humans.

Grapples with Jack Krauser.

Leon vs Licker

Wrestles with a Licker after getting tackled half a story onto concrete.

Leon vs Monster

Overpowers a Rasklapanje from an awkward angle.

Even the zombies of Resident Evil are shown to possess a certain degree of super strength, and there are too many instances of Leon grappling with them to list.

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In Resident Evil 6 Leon was able to hold open the jaws of a 20 foot long monster shark singlehandedly, while holding his breath underwater.

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With Helena's help, Leon even managed to roll a gigantic 20 ton boulder out of it's wedged position.

For all intents and purposes this dude is a multitonner. The monsters he wrestles with are all superhuman, and a shark of that size would have an unimaginable bite force. Moving an actual boulder just seals the deal, Shang-Chi can't match this strength. And yet you say Shang-Chi will oneshot Leon?

If you're so sure about that then let's compare durability showings.

If Leon manages to get extremely lucky and gets a hit in...it won't do much. Shang-chi is very durable. gorgon throws him dozens of feet into a ceramic roof and Shang-chi is barely fazed:

Well getting thrown isn't all that damaging. The danger came from the fall, but that was broken by the rooftop. Shang only fell maybe one or two stories, Leon took dives like that all the time in Resident Evil 4 and was never worse for wear. I'm not entirely impressed.

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Leon was able to survive getting backhanded by the G-Monster 30 feet away and crashing headfirst into a metal box. The G-Monster is of course, infinitely stronger than Gorgon, and the difference between being thrown and actually hit speaks for itself.

Not only that, but Leon followed this up by going through an elaborate dodge scene highlighting his (vastly) superior agility to the martial artist, something that he integrates into his combat style giving him another CQC advantage.

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Bullet timing feats and all, it's clear that Leon holds a great advantage in speed to Shang-Chi, especially in combat. Even when caught by surprise the agent instantly matched Svetlana Belikova, the president and premier combat instructor of the entire Eastern Slav Republic, trading blows at rapid speeds and not taking a single hit. When Svetlana threw him, Leon even managed an impressive midair recovery.

I actually don't think Shang is all that more skilled than Leon. He's taken on several of the world's best fighters, Svetlana being one of them, and most of Shang's feats are unfortunately against cannon fodder. For example, that feat against the mugger is fancy, but I'd be more impressed to see how Shang handles himself against someone who can actually fight back.

This martial artist watches Shang-chi take care of a mugger and has already seen enough to know Shang-chi is a master. Shang-chi predicted the mugger's every move and executed moves in at least 3 separate styles while mixing in aspects of tao, aikido, karate and kung fu. All within a fight that lasted a few seconds:

The knowledge in itself is good, but it's a lot easier to use such techniques when you're going one on one with just a single random mugger. Leon actually knows what he's doing and can counter.

Likewise the fight against Iron Fist is questionable, to say the least. The narration makes it exceedingly clear that Danny was holding back far more than Shang himself was, with the guy in charge continuing to yell at Iron Fist to try harder long after Shang had given in. Shang even had to argue with Danny that they should both fight to the best of their abilities, but all Danny could do in response was freak out.

I don't think Shang-Chi is Iron Fist level, he's good, but more along the lines of someone like Nightwing. It'd be inconsistent with their record against other Marvel fighters too. Wolverine destroyed Shang-Chi in a matter of seconds, whereas Iron Fist was able to spar on par with Logan. Likewise Iron Fist called Captain America's technique "basic," but in a sparring match between the two Steve and Shang were shown to be near equal.

Not that Leon will have his guns for long anyway. Shang-chi can disarm four men almost instantly, while dodging bullets:

Seriously? You really think Shang-Chi can stomp Leon Kennedy based on his ability to struggle against four street hoods? I'm not impressed. In Damnation Leon disarmed a group of super humans and then killed them all with their own weapons while handcuffed.

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ShenKuei

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I'll have my response up soon.

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nick_hero22

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Wow....Nickzambuto got wrecked.....again!

PS: Further proof that he is the inferior Nick on this site.

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Noobwhacker

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Wow...Leon's feats are some of the saddest I've ever seen. This thread should pretty evident that no matter how hard fanboys try, Resident Evil humans wouldn't last longer than 10 seconds against comic book fighters.

Sad indeed