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#1 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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V.S.

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Rules

  • In character.
  • Basic knowledge, random encounter.
  • Team work is a non factor.
  • The combatants start fifteen feet apart.
  • Ultimate/Classic/Extremis/Bleeding Edge Iron Man.
  • World War Hulk
  • Composite Brutaal and General Thragg.
  • No outside help.
  • No BFR.

Location:

Indistuctable Map.
Indistuctable Map.

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#2 Posted by LpnQ (3954 posts) - - Show Bio

Either im missing something or this battle is extremely one sided.

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#3 Posted by Thedailybagel (12911 posts) - - Show Bio

^^^^

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#4 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by TheKinfing (11899 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Iron Man? Way too much.

Also, exactly what you guys mean by ''composite'' Brutaal? Other feats from Bizarro(s) are allowed?

Online
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#6 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Vertigo- (17848 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah what the hell, tag

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#9 Edited by StormShadow_X (16815 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the first two comments..

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#11 Edited by Vertigo- (17848 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: honestly mate, Invincible has no business fighting Hulk, much less an incarnation like WWH. Can't speak for Brutaal. That's what they're all referring to.

Regardless, CaV's are about who debated better. You've got your work cut out for you though. SG knows hulk pretty well, but you can win

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#12 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackestnight93: Well can't Mark beat Tony? Brutaal vs WWH will be hard to argue (since Brutaal doesn't have too many showings) but I think it can be done.

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#13 Posted by Vertigo- (17848 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: With a composite Iron Man? You're still gonna have your work cut out for you if you ask me. Like I said though, CaV's are all about who debated better

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#14 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackestnight93: Well let's try to use major offense this time. Also did you T4V in my Terrax thread as well?

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#15 Posted by Vertigo- (17848 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Vertigo- (17848 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: To make things more fair, would you be okay if I changed Invincible to General Thragg and limit Iron Man to composite armor but with Bleeding Edge as the cap?

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#19 Posted by termiteone4ever (12987 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Ironman can defeat both brutal superman and WWH . If recall he had some destroyer armor and other foolishness .

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#20 Edited by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Just make it Classic/Extremis/Bleeding Edge.

Dunno who Thragg is but go ahead.

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#21 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Okay.

Thragg is the same race an Mark, but he was trained since birth to be the most powerful person in the galaxy. He defeated Battle Beast, Omni Man and Invincible (with help) at the same time once.

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#22 Edited by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: *thinks about*

I'm gonna end up taking the deal anyways.

Can you open, since I know nothing of your characters?

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#23 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by KrleAvenger (26209 posts) - - Show Bio

I understand People's opinions but come on. This is a CaV.

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#25 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration:

Introducing the two greatest threats in their respective universes, Grand Regent Thragg and Superman, the servant of Darkseid.

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Brutaal

Now Brutaal only has limited showing so forgive me for the power scaling and lack of scans.

Strength:

Brutaal's greatest asset.

Said to be able to one shot Alan Scott with one blow and level a mountain with a punch.

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Here Brutaal demonstrates his power. With 3 blows, he takes out Dr. Fate, shakes a military base and creates a massive crater.

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Speed:

Now that we know that a single blow from Brutaal can level a mountain, we need to find out just how many punches Brutaal can throw.

Well for starters he is as fast as the Flash (who later pushes someone into infinity) when he (Flash) pushes himself.

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Now you may be thinking that is just travel speed, but here's another scan showing Brutaal use amazing speed to set up the table (while not looking as he notinces Kent go missing).

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Omega Vision:

Since Brutaal is so fast and powerful, he literally never got hit by anything that could hurt him as he ends his fights within seconds, due to that I will be leaving durability for the actual debate and skip to his Omega Vision.

Now I've already showed you its speed when it tagged the Flash now for power and control.

Here he kills Steppenwolf will one attack, using his omega vision to cut through Steppenwolf like a hot knife through butter.

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And here he kills multiple soldiers with a single blast (as well as defeat a handful of heroes like nothing).

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General Thragg

Since Thragg also has few showings and most are battle based, this intro will be a little different. Also minor spoilers ahead.

Stats & Feats:

Thragg is a beast. In this scan he no sells Invincible's blows, uses a single back hand to draw blood from Invincible and absolutely demolishes Kid Omni Man in one swift movement.

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In this scan Thragg is unfazed by Dinosaurus' bite and then rips his jaw apart.

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In terms of speed and endurance, Thragg has been shown to be able to fight for days and travel across the planet while doing so.

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And to make this feat more impressive the entire fight Thragg's guts were hanging from the outside of his stomach (since the begining).

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Initial Thoughts

  • As both can fly, Iron Man would be an easy target and would die as soon as the fight starts.
  • Both are quicker than Hulk and are strong enough to damage him.
  • Omega Vision could attack Hulk's most vunerable parts, such as his eyes.
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#28 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#29 Posted by samconery (1717 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V This is gonna be fun

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#30 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16480 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#31 Posted by Battle123axe (9202 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by AtheistKnowledge (9595 posts) - - Show Bio

I've seen Brutaal's feats and he has more business fighting Skaar, than Hulk, let alone WWH.

But good luck either way.

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#34 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Haven't forgotten, just been busy as heck. Should be up by tomorrow, Friday at the absolute latest.

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#35 Edited by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:I'm gonna scrap this from a tourney match and continue from there:

EDIT: Post deleted, so I'm taking it small now...

Incredible Hulk

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You guys know him. Big bad Hulk. Very popular.

While saving the life of an innocent, scientist Bruce Banner was caught in the blast of an experimental gamma bomb that transformed him into a rampaging monster with near-limitless power. Hunted and feared by the world around him, he is the strongest there is -- he is the Incredible Hulk!

  • Super Stats
  • Healing Factor
  • Energy Projection

Great showing that pertains to this battle:

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Most, if not all, Hulk fans will remember Tales to Astonish #89 where Hulk not only withstands, but manages to fight against the Stranger's force "enough to change the orbit of a planet." Not only, but the Stranger states that he's upping the energy! What happens when you take feats like this and then use one of the most powerful Hulks ever? One helluva ****fest.

Iron Man

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Industrialist Tony Stark is a technological visionary... a famous, wealthy and unparalleled inventor. Gravely injured by an act of industrial sabotage, Stark saved his own life by designing a life-sustaining shell. With the world's most advanced and powerful suit of armor, Stark transforms into its greatest human fighting machine. He is the Golden Avenger known as Iron Man.

  • Super Stats
  • Energy Projection
  • Minor healing factor
  • Bunch of other stuff

Another showing? Sheesh.

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In Hulk Smash Avengers #1, we see that the Classic armor is capable of trading blows with Savage Hulk, before he gets too angry. This is heavily impressive for Iron Man, as the tier of opponent being faced is going to have to work a bit to get to Hulk levels.

Brutaal's Strength

Mightily impressive things right there mate, truly impressive. However, I believe that the one showing I've provided for Hulk is sufficient to show that can not only tank, but laugh off mountain-shattering blows. As for Iron Man, well if taking blows from the stinking Hulk wasn't enough,

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then blows from even the godly blows is definitely enough. Heck, unlike Brutaal (statements), Iron Man actually has busted mountains before:

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Brutaal's Speed

Brutaal is Earth-2's version of Supes, right? That's Earth-2 Jay Garrick? He's mightily impressive but, correct me if I'm wrong, nowhere near as fast as the other New 52 Flashes?

Well, no one can take his speed away from him... It's impressive but it might be blowing out of proportion to say that it'll be enough here.

Now your second scan is where it gets really fun. It's not necessarily punching, but it's fun.

Well, I can't deny that Brutaal has an at least decent if not major speed advantage over Hulk, but what kind of debater would I be using Hulk if I didn't have a counter for it? First off: thunderclaps:

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This scan from Defenders #4 has 2 purposes:

  1. Sends Hyperion flying back (powerful)
  2. Used as an advantage against super senses

Brutaal is for all intents and purposes a Superman clone, meaning he'd have Super Senses, right? If he plays the speed game and Hulk gets angsty, he'll be hurt 2 ways.

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Here it is working on Quicksilver, even as he circles around Joe Fixit. Just in case you say it won't touch Brutaal.

Omega Beams

Assuming they're heat like just about everything else that comes out of people's eyes, it's almost useless in a situation like this. Even if it's not heat, and I don't want to assume it is then provide feats only for it to not be heat, I'm going to be taking a much safer path instead:

Healing Factor

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Figured it would be fun with vision games to bring in other vision games. In this instance, whilst Gladiator manages to pierce through Mindless Hulk, Hulk still manages to overpower him then heal from it.

Thragg

This part is going to be light, as I have a request:

At least for the first scan, I have no knowledge on either Invincible or Kid Omni. What's so impressive about no-selling their blows? I mean I'm already having doubts after seeing battles where people actually back Invincible against Superman, and now you have a stronger version, but I'm going to continue anyways.

Your dino feat is impressive as is the "fighting around the world" but I think you might be exaggerating the impressiveness of him having his guts out. It's clearly causing Thragg some discomfort, and he even had to take a break mid-sentence.

I believe I'll end this on this note to grasp a better understanding of Thragg for the next round and be able to debate properly.

Conclusion

Until I receive more information on Thragg, I can't really make a solid battle plan. I have a counter for abusing speed against Hulk, namely the thunder clap, and it's not like Brutaal is that fast compared to the other Super-clones out there (at least from what has been so far seen).

So... yea!

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#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Thought we were using WWHulk? Anyway, I'll get a post up in 3 days or less.

How many posts should we run for?

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#37 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Thought we were using WWHulk? Anyway, I'll get a post up in 3 days or less.

How many posts should we run for?

I think he is using feats of weaker versions of Hulk Since World War Hulk himself doesn't have that many.

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#39 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration:

Round 2:

Counter: Iron Man Scan

In Hulk Smash Avengers #1, we see that the Classic armor is capable of trading blows with Savage Hulk, before he gets too angry. This is heavily impressive for Iron Man, as the tier of opponent being faced is going to have to work a bit to get to Hulk levels.

Punching base Hulk isn't that impressive considering 3 things, A. Iron Man wouldn't try to punch it out or he'd get double teamed. B. His strength at full power isn't powerful enough even faze somone like Silver Surfer C. His suit's durability level fluxuates a lot.

Counters: Strength

Mightily impressive things right there mate, truly impressive. However, I believe that the one showing I've provided for Hulk is sufficient to show that can not only tank, but laugh off mountain-shattering blows. As for Iron Man, well if taking blows from the stinking Hulk wasn't enough,

*Tanking Blows from a base Hulk who then one shots Iron Man once he gets a little angry.

then blows from even the godly blows is definitely enough.

No, Thor and Herc job a lot. Here are scans of She Hulk doing the same thing.

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Heck, unlike Brutaal (statements), Iron Man actually has busted mountains before:

No he hasn't. In that scan as you can see on the right panel you can see Iron Man only cracks half of the mountain, and that was a zoomed in shot (meaning he cracked less than half of the mountain). Also, the shards that flew out indicate that the mountain was never busted only cracked as in the left most scan you can already see debris floating around, and when Iron Man rockets to the mountain, only about 19 pieces of rock breaks out.

Brutaal's Speed

Brutaal is Earth-2's version of Supes, right? That's Earth-2 Jay Garrick? He's mightily impressive but, correct me if I'm wrong, nowhere near as fast as the other New 52 Flashes?

Sorry but Jay is as bit as fast if not faster than Barry. Here he blitzes a handful of soldiers and later is shown to be able to run a light speed.

Well, no one can take his speed away from him... It's impressive but it might be blowing out of proportion to say that it'll be enough here.

Compared to what you've shown, I don't see anything stopping a Brutaal blitz on Iron Man's front.

Now your second scan is where it gets really fun. It's not necessarily punching, but it's fun.

Well, I can't deny that Brutaal has an at least decent if not major speed advantage over Hulk, but what kind of debater would I be using Hulk if I didn't have a counter for it? First off: thunderclaps:

This scan from Defenders #4 has 2 purposes:

  1. Sends Hyperion flying back (powerful)
  2. Used as an advantage against super senses

Very nice. However that is not something that could KO Brtuutal or Thragg on it's own and I have a few questions.

1. What is it's range?

2. How big is the AoE?

3. Can Hulk do it before Brutaal can blitz him? I mean catching QS is nice and all but each punch Brutaal throws is that of a mountain buster, meaning Hulk should be too stunned to react.

Brutaal is for all intents and purposes a Superman clone, meaning he'd have Super Senses, right? If he plays the speed game and Hulk gets angsty, he'll be hurt 2 ways.

Here it is working on Quicksilver, even as he circles around Joe Fixit. Just in case you say it won't touch Brutaal.

While Supes has super senses it is (by feats) not nearly as good as Superman's and Thragg doesn't have them so he is good.

Well I also have two attackers and ranged capabilities, meaning I can tornado tag you after Tony is taken out, keeping you stunned the entire fight.

Omega Beams

Assuming they're heat like just about everything else that comes out of people's eyes, it's almost useless in a situation like this. Even if it's not heat, and I don't want to assume it is then provide feats only for it to not be heat, I'm going to be taking a much safer path instead:

It was never explicitly said whether it was heat or not, they called it omega vision so I assume it has omega effect qualities (asides from better control, Brutaal used it tokill a bunch of para demons in a wave AoE attack).

Figured it would be fun with vision games to bring in other vision games. In this instance, whilst Gladiator manages to pierce through Mindless Hulk, Hulk still manages to overpower him then heal from it.

But how durable is the Hulk's eyes and brain? I have no doubt that Thragg can hold down Hulk long enough for Brutaal to zap through his eyes and through his head.

Thragg

This part is going to be light, as I have a request:

At least for the first scan, I have no knowledge on either Invincible or Kid Omni. What's so impressive about no-selling their blows? I mean I'm already having doubts after seeing battles where people actually back Invincible against Superman, and now you have a stronger version, but I'm going to continue anyways.

First, anyone who thinks Mark can beat any version of Superman who is not severely weakened is being kinda foolish (or is a fanboy\troll). Second instead of showing Mark's feats here is an RT (as it would be more complete). As for Kid Omni Man here he helps Mark destroy a massive space ship.

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Your dino feat is impressive as is the "fighting around the world" but I think you might be exaggerating the impressiveness of him having his guts out. It's clearly causing Thragg some discomfort, and he even had to take a break mid-sentence.l

Thragg was fighting for days with an open wound. That is impressive.

My Battle Plan\How The Fight Will Go

So here's what would happen, right out of the gate Bruutal rockets to Tony then punches him to the sky, then Thragg and him double team him and take him out with little effort (a double punch on Tony's head would probably kill him in one go). Then both Thragg and Brutaal use their superior speed and versatile flight to double team Hulk (since there are two of them Brutaal keeps Hulk off Thragg since Thragg isn't as fast). Finally with Hulk stunned and healing (this wouldn't take long to accomplish as the entire fight would be incredibly fast paced so he wouldn't get too much stronger from this assault nor would he be able to use his thunder clap as the constant pounding Banner would recieve would distract him too much), Thragg hold the Hulk in a sleeper hold then Brutaal uses his Omega Vision to blast through Banner's eyes and blast all the way through his skull on the other side, killing him.

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#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

But in his title he called him Incredible Hulk. I don't really care which version though.

Like I said, scrapped opener. I'm using feats from weaker versions because this is a stronger version, one would think that they'd apply as well.

Iron Man Scan

Punching base Hulk isn't that impressive considering 3 things, A. Iron Man wouldn't try to punch it out or he'd get double teamed

Iron Man wouldn't try punching out these guys? Yea, I can get behind that, I just wanted to show that he's physically capable of holding his own.

B. His strength at full power isn't powerful enough even faze somone like Silver Surfer

We're pulling out scans like these this early? For starters, Surfer's durability is above Hulk's (and everyone in this match) so that's a moot point. If I'm not mistaken, that scan is from Avengers Annual #11. In that comic book, some villains whose names I can't remember convince the Defenders that the Avengers are under some mind control iirc. It's revealed that it was the Defenders under mind control. Can't remember the exact order of the scans, but it's possible Stark was holding back. If not, I have multiple instances of Iron Man dishing it out to high-level foes, which I'll show in your next few sections.

C. His suit's durability level fluxuates a lot.

It varies depending on the suit, but the ones I'm allowed to use are consistent. Except for Ultimate, but I have never in my life picked up a 1610/Ultimates comic book so I don't know what's going on there...

Strength

*Tanking Blows from a base Hulk who then one shots Iron Man once he gets a little angry.

There's no such thing as a "base Hulk," unless you mean a calm Hulk. Professor Hulk has taken down a reinforced door that was made to withstand nuclear blasts (1). Hulk himself is also a mountain buster (2).

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No, Thor and Herc job a lot. Here are scans of She Hulk doing the same thing.

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I might accept Herc being a jobber, but Thor? Iron Man consistently holds his own with and hurts high-tiers like them. She-Hulk doing that is a feat for She-Hulk, not a low showing for Thor and Hercules. This feels like a lowball attempt. As does the next part.

No he hasn't. In that scan as you can see on the right panel you can see Iron Man only cracks half of the mountain, and that was a zoomed in shot (meaning he cracked less than half of the mountain). Also, the shards that flew out indicate that the mountain was never busted only cracked as in the left most scan you can already see debris floating around, and when Iron Man rockets to the mountain, only about 19 pieces of rock breaks out.

How do you define busted? He flew at the mountain, split it in half, and large chunks fell out. That sounds like he destroyed the mountain. Whereas I have a feat of Iron Man destroying a city-sized mountain, you have statements. "Only" 19 pieces of rock break out? I don't get it. They fell out because he hit the mountain hard enough to break it and crack it, making rocks fall out.

Brutaalian Speed

Sorry but Jay is as bit as fast if not faster than Barry. Here he blitzes a handful of soldiers and later is shown to be able to run a light speed.

Lightspeed. Earth-2 #25. Your scan of Brutaal setting the table happened in that comic book too... *reads rest of it*

Damn he's badass, murdered his own father. Anywho... Flash claims that he pushed whoever that was into Infinity, we don't know for certain if that's lightspeed but it's also worth mentioning that, again, he claims to have never run that fast before. Brutaal was chasing a speedster, I can accept that, but we don't know for certain if it was a lightspeedster.

Not to mention that your instance of Brutaal catching Flash is before this instance of supposed lightspeed. I've been reading Earth-2 myself, and he's only getting faster.

Compared to what you've shown, I don't see anything stopping a Brutaal blitz on Iron Man's front.

Thought it was Hulk v Brutaal and Thragg v Iron Man. Either way, Iron Man is massively hypersonic and with the right armors potentially lightspeed. In terms of reactions and travel, Iron Man would probably meet Brutaal halfway.

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Microsecond reactions. Multiple people try the BS claim that "it was the armor" or "it was an explosion." Diddly squat. If it was the armor, then so what? Guess who's wearing the armor? The guy fighting. An explosion is an attack, which he not only walked through but reacted to.

Brutaal, upon further examination, isn't even that fast. He isn't as fast as Jay; he kept up, sure, but it was his Omega Vision that hit Jay, allowing him to catch up to Jay. Lesson: Brutaal is nowhere near light speed.

Now your second scan is where it gets really fun. It's not necessarily punching, but it's fun.

...

I liek you. +1

Very nice. However that is not something that could KO Brtuutal or Thragg on it's own and I have a few questions.

1. What is it's range?

2. How big is the AoE?

3. Can Hulk do it before Brutaal can blitz him? I mean catching QS is nice and all but each punch Brutaal throws is that of a mountain buster, meaning Hulk should be too stunned to react.

2 and 1 go hand in hand, and while unknown it's been known to be pretty large. For power and AoE:

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He's sent the armies of the Negative Zone flying, and as seen they were pretty large.

Getting it off before Brutaal blitzes shouldn't be a problem, but it's not like he has to. He'll only do it when there's no other choice, and it'll still hurt Brutaal's ears while doing so. For some reason you are intent on this "mountain buster" statement. I'm going to drive a hole through it right now and bring ahead the planetary feats to make it easier for later:

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This is from Incredible Hulks #616, where Hulk is walking through pure kinetic energy that was splitting that planet in half. He did this and emerged relatively unscathed, still ready to fight. In Incredible Hulks #617 that blast looked this from Earth:

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So no, these presumably mountain-shattering punches aren't doing diddly squat to Hulk. I showed him, in my opener, walking through the energy required to change a planet's opener. That alone is enough to shrug off these statements.

While Supes has super senses it is (by feats) not nearly as good as Superman's and Thragg doesn't have them so he is good.

People with super senses even as low as Wolverine (in comparison to Superman) have felt pain from Hulk's thunderclaps, Brutaal is definitely going to be reeling in pain should he attempt to abuse his speed and Hulk knows the counter to it.

Well I also have two attackers and ranged capabilities, meaning I can tornado tag you after Tony is taken out, keeping you stunned the entire fight.

As previously shown, your punches aren't going to be doing squat to one of the most powerful Hulks ever. Brutaal has like 25 appearances or so total. Hulk has decades to come up with. You're relying too much on this statement of Brutaal; for starters, as said many times, it's a statement. Secondly, him nearly killing Earth-2 Lantern isn't a solo feat, he was double-teaming him with Steppenwolf. I showed that Tony can, at the very least, react to your blitzes. Now I have to show that he can survive them.

As previously seen, the dude can tango with a calm Hulk (whom I'd already argue as physically equal to Brutaal). However, because you insist on this idea of mountain-busting attacks:

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Like the Doc says, that atomic piledriver was meant to go through mountains. Why do I bring this up, and nothing else? Modern day nukes can't do shizzles to mountains. You're relying a lot on this. He has other feats, y'know? Like in issue #26, he punches Val once and that knocks back everything for at least a mile. Hell, even blitzing through the World's Army ships seems more impressive.

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Iron Man's durability is consistently far above mountain level, as seen when Rhodey survives an attack that registers on seismographs and, more impressively, his armor's backups kick in against an attack that sunk the entire Western Seaboard of the USA.

Omega Beams

It was never explicitly said whether it was heat or not, they called it omega vision so I assume it has omega effect qualities (asides from better control, Brutaal used it tokill a bunch of para demons in a wave AoE attack).

I don't remember it explicitly being called "Omega Vision," I'm just calling it that cos you are. I saw the scan you're talking about; when they were firing at Red Tornado Lois. Very impressive.

But how durable is the Hulk's eyes and brain? I have no doubt that Thragg can hold down Hulk long enough for Brutaal to zap through his eyes and through his head.

I'm gonna get to Thragg in the next section, because no way in hell he ever holds down the Hulk, but Hulk's eyes... The only feats they have are against Hawkeye's arrows and some bullets (even Adamantium). However, Brutaal is going to be quite busy dealing with Iron Man. Thragg might too. By the time they get out of that fight, they might actually be weak enough for Hulk to solo with a thunderclap. Hulk's insides, however, are just as tough as his outsides:

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Ant-Man, O'Grady iirc, finds out the hard way that Hulk is just as tough inside as he is outside. I've shown how tough he is on the outside with not one, but two planetary feats. There's also his incredibly powerful healing factor to consider:

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He's healed from having his skin seared right off his bones.

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Dude heals from having his head ripped off.

I believe this is definitely enough to show that Omega Vision isn't doing squat to Hulk.

Aside from all of this, Brutaal's feat of killing Steppenwolf is very questionable, given that Steppenwolf has no durability feats of note (at least on Earth-2).

Thragg

First, anyone who thinks Mark can beat any version of Superman who is not severely weakened is being kinda foolish (or is a fanboy\troll). Second instead of showing Mark's feats here is an RT (as it would be more complete). As for Kid Omni Man here he helps Mark destroy a massive space ship.

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So we have Invincible hitting people into the moon and some, iirc, heavily-context ridden 1/3 planet busting, and some semi spaceship busting attacks being no sold (and that's being nice since they're charged attacks and not actual striking). Him no-selling that is impressive, as is his dispatching of Invincible (he's what, state/mountain level?) This puts his striking at around the same level as Brutaal, probably lower depending on how valid the narration is, but around that. I've already showed that Iron Man can survive that and Hulk no-sells that.

Your Battle Plan

So here's what would happen, right out of the gate Bruutal rockets to Tony then punches him to the sky, then Thragg and him double team him and take him out with little effort (a double punch on Tony's head would probably kill him in one go).

I've already showed that Iron Man can react to these attacks, and survive these attacks. All I've yet to show is what kind of damage he's dealing, which is coming in a bit.

Then both Thragg and Brutaal use their superior speed and versatile flight to double team Hulk (since there are two of them Brutaal keeps Hulk off Thragg since Thragg isn't as fast). Finally with Hulk stunned and healing (this wouldn't take long to accomplish as the entire fight would be incredibly fast paced so he wouldn't get too much stronger from this assault nor would he be able to use his thunder clap as the constant pounding Banner would recieve would distract him too much), Thragg hold the Hulk in a sleeper hold then Brutaal uses his Omega Vision to blast through Banner's eyes and blast all the way through his skull on the other side, killing him.

I've shown two planetary feats for Hulk, and I have a third if need be. Mountain busting punches and whatever Thragg brings isn't doing squat to a Hulk that's superior to the one with planetary feats.

You have a lot of faith in your guys speed. In the few fights Brutaal had, he never used his combat speed well. He cheap-shotted Steppenwolf, chased after Flash (travel, not combat, and he ended using Omega Vision), blitzed Val (when he wasn't used to his powers yet) and got blitzed by Val after he got used to his powers. In none of these instances was his speed abused. I don't know about Thragg, but by your own admission he's slower than Brutaal.

Your distraction is incredibly futile, given that Thragg is basically a 3/4 Brutaal and doesn't bring much to the table. The striking power that they bring could never hope to overcome Hulk's durability, much less his healing factor. Their attacks will go by unnoticed by Hulk as he proceeds to hammer them down. Iron Man will have done his bidding on them too, as I'll show in my next post.

As for Thragg, assuming he can somehow get Hulk in a sleeper hold (firstly because Hulk is just so big Thragg might actually struggle to do this), but Hulk is much stronger than Thragg.

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This is a Hulk that has retained Banner's intelligence as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Hulk used his immense strength to overcome Thragg's then proceed to 2-shot him.

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Much stronger have tried, even in pairs, and failed hilariously. What makes you think Thragg could replicate the combined strength of Namor and Silver Surfer, or Iron Man and Thor? He can't. Hulk would literally bring the arm around him effortlessly then pound on Thragg.

Iron Man / Hulk

I've shown that Iron Man and Hulk can sustain a beating from both your guys, that Iron Man can react to and even meet halfway with your guys, and I've proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you're not doing squat to Hulk. Now I need to show the following: that Iron Man can hurt you guys, that Hulk can 3-shot tops when he connects, and... that's it.

Iron Man Firepower (it's a long section)

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Although the art might not show it, I'm pretty sure that's Grey Hulk being sent back in a scream from Iron Man (Hulk: Gray #4).

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As seen from the above scans, the dude can fire his repulsors incredibly fast. From missiles to debris to buildings, everything goes down. In terms of sheer power that they can unleash, well, they put your mountain busting to shame:

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When colliding with the Mandarin and all 10 rings simultaneously, the energy unleashed actually destroys mountains. There are multiple there destroyed. That's what happens when he concentrates it all, for more casual blasts, see here:

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Twice in the same story, Stark either one-shots or makes an amped Ulik the Troll sit the ducks down. This is the same Ulik that can tango with the God of Thunder, Thor himself. If your guys want to get in close, we also have that nifty repulsor blade:

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It's sliced right through Mokk, aka an amped Grey Gargoyle. This was during Fear Itself, meaning that Mokk was at least sub-Thor levels himself, and nothing else was hurting him. The repulsor battery coming low is something that a) he'll have to accept because it puts down your guys rather well and b) could probably be recharged from the map directly:

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This would also force the duo to come to the ground, allowing Hulk to sneak up on one of you and OKO you. Other weaponry includes sonics, missiles, flamethrowers, and the like:

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His missiles and repulsors have been enough to send Red Hulk screaming in pain. No, I don't to hear the "Rulk didn't fight back" or "he wasn't ready" BS. Not fighting back doesn't affect your durability, and he was braced after the first attack, so yes, this feat is legit.

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Then there's things such as cluster bomblets, sonics, and gas, a lot of which I know for a fact Brutaal doesn't have an answer for. Thragg might, given his longer time around (I think) and more appearances, but as you said, Brutaal is the superior of the two.

Iron Man Physically

Iron Man isn't one to be taken lightly in terms of physicals, either. I've showed him tangoing for a while with Hulk.

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He doesn't do badly against the Lion of Olympus, either.

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He's, very briefly due to prep, tango'd with Wonder Man.

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Even his oldest Iron Man armor was able to briefly go for a while with the Hulk.

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Hell Iron Man has even drawn blood from and taken punches from the Sentry!

Hulk Striking

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World War Hulk wasn't his maddest for nothing; he was a beast filled with one-shots, such as on She-Hulk, Ares, and the Thing. The most important thing to remember in this storyline is that Hulk was pulling his punches the entire time:

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Then, of course, there's the infamous WWH v Sentry which probably blows anything you can bring out of the water:

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Conclusion

If we go by your battle plan, things end pretty badly. I've shown that Iron Man can react to and meet Brutaal/Thragg midway. He can survive their attacks and even attack back, with his superior firepower being a main driving force into hurting them. His repulsor blade can definitely hurt them, as can his missiles. When in need of a recharge, that's just enough time for Hulk to drop in and smack them.

Assuming Thragg can sleeper hold Hulk (I don't doubt it strength-wise, yet, I mean Hulk is just that big), then he's going to get trashed into the ground. Brutaal isn't known for abusing his speed in combat, so it's not that big a deal. Omega beams are easily healed from. In a nutshell:

  • Hulk is far above either of your team
  • Iron Man is at least equal to both of your team
  • We have more ways to wreck you
  • Your plan isn't going to work
  • Good luck, sorry for delay.
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#43 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Hey you midn if this gets delayed for a bit? There's a new Invincible issue coming out next week and I want to see if Thragg has any feats there. I will get a post before the 23.

Also this might require another post before the last.

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#44 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: It was worth the wait tbh. But mine...eh, we will see. Lol.

lol don't sweat it man, you're doing great. I only took so long because I was scrolling through Earth-2 fast as I could to debunk any speed arguments, I hate those.

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#47 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Lol, thanks, but I'll try harder this post.

Well I will also use Earth 2 Superman's feats since Bdutaal is just a clone. Just a heads up.

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#48 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12014 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio