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#1 Edited by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

Contest of Champions

Red Hulk- The Red Behemoth

Sam Alexander- the lesser Nova

Red Hulk (Serrure)

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Vs

Sam Alexander- (heirtothekingdom)

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The Rules

Morals On

Win by KO/Incap/Death

Standard Gear

Current Characters

The Judge

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Collectors Rules

  1. The Collector will not tolerate ignorant comments similar to the likes of "This will be a stomp" or "_____ should win" plz wait until the end of the match to give the Collector your opinions (votes)
  2. The Collector will tolerate no major intrusions in this match. spectators are of course allowed and conversation during the fight is expected but keep it to where our contestants are not distracted (no major derailing of thread)
  3. The Collector as trouble remembering everyone who wants to watch the match after its completion. letting him know while the match goes on is perfectly acceptable (if you want to be tagged for votes let me know)
  4. The Collector would like to remind everyone that this match will have no affect on reality after its completion. (Its comics people lets have fun, not get into fights.)
  5. Violations of the above rules will not be tolerated and if the Collector must call in a higher power he will (dont make me call a mod plz.)

The Battlefield

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New York City

90 Meters apart

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#2 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: Nope, this is good. Do you want to start?

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#4 Edited by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: no problem

Thunderbolt Ross

the General who hunted the Hulk for so long became his oww enemy. Not that he complains to much about it.

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The General is a tough guy. he hits hard and takes allot to go down... lets review

Strength

very Strong indeed

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this is a good strength and durability feat Colossonaut is extremely strong and of course Rulk wins by a technicality. Colossonaut would have beaten Rulk in this fight.

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he was causing some serious earthquakes... 8.0, 9.0, 10.0. lets compare Juggernauts

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so Rulk hits very very hard

Durability

Rulk is extremely tough... if this comes to a slug fest hes gonna win

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Hes able to go toe to toe with the Hulk. Doc Green this may be but we both know that Savage Hulk has also been challenged by Rulk

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he no sells Iron mans Unibeam which can get very powerful

he has other better Energy tanking feats

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Healing Factor!!!! but that will be explained Later.

We know how this ends

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#5 Posted by SMXLR8 (6518 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

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#6 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Nova AKA The Human Rocket AKA Sam Alexander

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Upon wearing the Nova helmet, Sam Alexander gains plenty of abilities which vastly enhance his physical stats, and give him additional abilities.

Although Sam is not nearly as experienced or powerful as Richard Rider was with a Nova helmet, he's still quite powerful. Even if he doesn't take a solid majority on Rulk, he's still capable of winning a few times if he plays it right. He's not the brightest superhero out there (The guy is 15 years old after all), so he's obviously not going to be that resourceful or strategic, but he's still smart enough to defeat someone like Rulk, and seeing as he's extremely fast, can fly, and has powerful ranged attacks, he's capable of defeating Rulk.

These are the reasons I think Sam can take some victories over Rulk. For starters the guy can fly, and that already is a big advantage on a being who is grounded. This will allow Nova to keep out of Rulk's range striking, or even his thunderclaps. Without those two, Rulk has no way of attacking, and I know it's going to be stated, "Rulk can jump pretty high". Well he can, but is he going to jump high enough to reach Sam? Or fast enough before Sam simply moves out of the way? He isn't called the human rocket for no reason, he has the speed to literally embarrass Rulk, and if he tries to attack Sam, it's exactly what will happen. Being fast, and being able to fly is literally the weakness of every brute to be honest. If street levelers like Wolverine can give Rulk a hard time, than Nova who is much faster will literally dance around him easily. Only reason I would say Sam will get tagged every so often is because he jokes around a lot, and doesn't take things serious enough at the moment, not to mention he's quite inexperienced. This would give Rulk some opportunities to strike, although it won't be enough in the end. Just so you get an idea of how fast Sam can travel, here's him speeding away to a next galaxy.

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Even if that is just "travel speed", Rulk simply won't see him coming at all.

Enough of that though, he can fly and move at incredible speeds, but can he dish out the damage to hurt Rulk? The answer is yes. He may not have enough power (as of now) to deal Rulk large amounts of damage with each attack, but he surely has the speed and energy output to make multiple blasts take Rulk out. How powerful are Sam's energy blasts?

They are powerful enough to make Beta Ray Bill pull out a force-field to block it. We all know Bill likes tanking damage, but for him to block against Sam's blast has to say at the least it was quite powerful.

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Rulk can take a number of these blasts, but eventually he may go down. Sam has more than just energy blasts to hurt Rulk, he can literally amplify his striking with energy to achieve a more destructive strike. Here is an example.

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With strikes like that, enhanced by Sam's insane speed, and we have a brute down in no time, well it will be a while, but you get what I mean. Even if Rulk does get some blows on Sam, it's not like he can't take a hit. He's still quite durable, and has shown he can take damage on par with what Rulk can deal, and being only a being with physical attacks, against Sam who can do that and much more, it's going to be hard to even deal blows on Sam. He was capable of surviving being knocked from outer space (By the Phoenix Force) all the way through New York, through a building and straight into the ground.

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Although he was knocked out, there is two things to remember. One this was Sam earlier on in his career, he was less powerful, so it's likely he would fare different with his risen power levels. Two, I'm more than certain that if Rulk was knocked by the Phoenix Force from such a distance, he would fare around the same. (A little better due to his durability, and healing factor, but you get the point. He is capable of taking Rulk's punishment.

This is just the beginning, I have much more to show, but for now bare with me. This will be an interesting debate.

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#7 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by TheNewBlueBeetle007 (4758 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, t4v

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#9 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#10 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Edited by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: shit CV ate this again... what a little B***h (this is my third attempt now)

oh well nothing keeps the Red Hulk down

Round 1

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He's not the brightest superhero out there (The guy is 15 years old after all), so he's obviously not going to be that resourceful or strategic, but he's still smart enough to defeat someone like Rulk, and seeing as he's extremely fast, can fly, and has powerful ranged attacks, he's capable of defeating Rulk.

Rulk is also extremely intelligent. this is bigger challenge for Sam then i think you are making it out to be

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hes a military strategist that knows how to adapt in combat.

its done so subtly that sometimes its easy to miss. for example in his fight against Clossonaut i believe he foresaw his loss if he kept fighting the way he did. So he moved C-naut closer to Genosha so the punches would destabilize it

How can i Prove it?

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He thumbs behind him! he knew the force would destabilize it. This brought Colossonaut out of his rage and made him support Genosha. Then Rulk knocks him out.

now even if you dont accept my previous line of logic (though i think it is quite sound) you cannot deny that he possesses the intelligence of a Military General and knows how to fight.

Rulk has no way of attacking, and I know it's going to be stated, "Rulk can jump pretty high". Well he can, but is he going to jump high enough to reach Sam?

he can do more than that

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his thunder-claps have dissipated rather large tornados now i could do the physics involved to say how much force it would take to do something like that but we can assume its a freaking lot

Or fast enough before Sam simply moves out of the way? He isn't called the human rocket for no reason, he has the speed to literally embarrass Rulk, and if he tries to attack Sam, it's exactly what will happen.

In theory quite possibly so... in reality Rulk is faster than he appears

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both Sentry and Ms. Marvel have enhanced Reflexes (more so Sentry) but neither one of them was able to do much against Rulk, now add Wonder Man, and Ares and you get Rulk kicking the crap out of all of them. BTW he wins this fight

given the fact that both Ms. Marvel and were not "fast" enough to get out of the way of Rulks punches i have trouble believing Nova will not do the same thing

If street levelers like Wolverine can give Rulk a hard time, than Nova who is much faster will literally dance around him easily.

the only time Wolverine gave Rulk any trouble is when Rulk was holding him upside down

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This is PIS at its best and complete and total CIS at its worst. also lets look and see what happened afterwords

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further solidifying that Rulk should/could have just thrown him to the East River instead of Monologuing

They are powerful enough to make Beta Ray Bill pull out a force-field to block it. We all know Bill likes tanking damage, but for him to block against Sam's blast has to say at the least it was quite powerful.

Not necessarily. BRB really uses his shield sometimes, and sometimes he doesnt

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just some simple weapons fire he blocks. Its really an option for him and if we keep looking at the fight here's my opinion

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the only time he came remotely close to hurting Bill is when he sucker punched him. Otherwise Beta had that fight in his hands almost easily

Sam has more than just energy blasts to hurt Rulk, he can literally amplify his striking with energy to achieve a more destructive strike. Here is an example.

Hardly seems like the person he is hitting has Rulk durability. I mean we are talking about a guy who broke Ares' Axe

He was capable of surviving being knocked from outer space (By the Phoenix Force) all the way through New York, through a building and straight into the ground.

How far away from the Earth was he?

Rulk was hit hard enough by Angrir to be knocked from New York to Vermont and still remain conscious

Captain Mar-Vell was hit to Earth from Saturn by Thanos. (and IIRC he remained conscious as well)

to really say thats a good durability feat you need more information

Things I need

I need some solid striking feats and damage output to tell me that Nova isnt gonna just annoy Rulk

I need some strong reaction feats

I also need some blunt force durability feats as that is what Rulk primarily does

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#15 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#16 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1

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Rulk is also extremely intelligent. this is bigger challenge for Sam then i think you are making it out to be

Rulk is indeed quite intelligent, I wouldn't go and say extremely intelligent though. He's more of just a tactical guy, although not entirely on Captain America's level. It will help him in this fight, but not how you think it will. Also I never said Sam was that smart, just that he sometimes out-smarts his enemies, which I could see happening to Rulk. Ross doesn't utilize his tactical abilities usual unless he's loosing a fight, in-which Sam can rack up plenty of damage by then.

hes a military strategist that knows how to adapt in combat.

That's impressive and all, but there is only so much he can do. It's not like he's facing someone like Quicksilver who's extremely fast on the ground, we're talking about someone who flies at extremely fast speeds. How does Ross deal with that? You can't really counter something that can hit you before you react. Well at least not with Ross's power-set.

How will Ross overcome his vast speed?

its done so subtly that sometimes its easy to miss. for example in his fight against Clossonaut i believe he foresaw his loss if he kept fighting the way he did. So he moved C-naut closer to Genosha so the punches would destabilize it

He thumbs behind him! he knew the force would destabilize it. This brought Colossonaut out of his rage and made him support Genosha. Then Rulk knocks him out.

That's cool, but how will he overcome Sam's speed? It's much harder to do than some dumb brute like Colossualnaut. He will have a harder time in doing something to even the battle field.

now even if you dont accept my previous line of logic (though i think it is quite sound) you cannot deny that he possesses the intelligence of a Military General and knows how to fight.

I don't disagree with your logic, I just don't see how it helps here. Unless you can show me how Ross is going to overcome Sam's speed. I'm aware he's a military general, but that doesn't mean he can overcome every opponent tactically.

his thunder-claps have dissipated rather large tornados now i could do the physics involved to say how much force it would take to do something like that but we can assume its a freaking lot

How does that help him tag Sam who can fly at extreme heights? He can into space (he obviously won't here, but you get what I mean) He's going to have trouble tagging Sam, and there isn't any proof he can reach him with a thunderclap. Although if it does hit Sam he can very well take it as Sam has taken powerful blasts from a giant Chitarui which at best immobilized him for a few seconds. Heck he even smiles after he takes the blast, which shows it didn't hurt him that much.

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Rulk is going to have to do much more than that to put down Sam.

In theory quite possibly so... in reality Rulk is faster than he appears

He is, but not fast enough to tag a serious Sam too much. He'll tag him for sure every once and a while, but he won't be able to inflict enough damage to take him out.

both Sentry and Ms. Marvel have enhanced Reflexes (more so Sentry) but neither one of them was able to do much against Rulk, now add Wonder Man, and Ares and you get Rulk kicking the crap out of all of them. BTW he wins this fight

Highly impressive feat I'll give you that. I see what your trying to do here, and it's not going to work. No one was utilizing their speed that much, well at least no where near full potential. It's usually what happens in Marvel when characters fight brutes like Rulk. The difference between Sam and them is that Sam uses his speed in every single battle he's in. I'm not even joking or stretching, every comic book fight Sam's been in he's usually always uses his speed. As for the fight they weren't going all out on Rulk, plus he didn't win, it didn't have an outcome. He had the upper-hand though, I'll give you that.

Sam can bull-rush Rulk down like this, and blast him continuously. Rulk can't necessarily do anything to stop this.

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And before you suggest that Sam isn't strong enough to knock Rulk down, here's him helping Beta Ray Bill stabilize a large spacecraft in it's orbit. They do this win no strain by the way.

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given the fact that both Ms. Marvel and were not "fast" enough to get out of the way of Rulks punches i have trouble believing Nova will not do the same thing

First of all, Sam is much faster than Ms.Marvel. He's called the "human rocket" for a reason. Ms.Marvel tends to brawl too much, and doesn't dodge much unless it's energy blasts, while Sam does.

given the fact that both Ms. Marvel and were not "fast" enough to get out of the way of Rulks punches i have trouble believing Nova will not do the same thing

I think we both know that whenever Marvel characters fight brutes, especially Hulk's they usually don't use their speed. The scan doesn't even depict Carol moving at fast speeds, nor Sentry so it's not even a clear indication that she wasn't fast enough to dodge Rulk.

Here is Kluh who is Hulk's Hulk and should have physicals above Rulk. Here is how easy Sam dodges him. I think it's safe to say Sam can treat Rulk the same way throughout the fight. As you can see Sam dodges a punch, and evades being grabbed. Two things Rulk would do too.

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the only time Wolverine gave Rulk any trouble is when Rulk was holding him upside down

Except before that Wolverine was slicing him up, and Rulk finally tagged him in the last part. It's always been known that Hulk's had trouble keeping up with Wolverine.

This is PIS at its best and complete and total CIS at its worst. also lets look and see what happened afterwords

He tosses Wolverine after he was slashed up. We known that Rulk would beat Logan, it's the fact that he can barely keep up with Logan is what i'm getting at.

further solidifying that Rulk should/could have just thrown him to the East River instead of Monologuing

He would have to tag Wolverine to do that. He had trouble doing that, hence why he just got mad and threw him away. At the end of the day if Wolverine can get Rulk frustrated because he could barely keep up with his movements and is getting attacked, while not being able to do much, than Sam is going to be a real pain in the ass, cause he's a lot faster than Logan.

Not necessarily. BRB really uses his shield sometimes, and sometimes he doesnt

In that occasion Beta Ray Bill used his shields because he was protecting the Skrulls behind him. Doesn't really change the fact that Bill is more of a tanker and usually tanks things.

just some simple weapons fire he blocks.

As I said before, it was to protect the Skrulls behind him. I could be wrong though, I didn't read that comic in a while.

Its really an option for him and if we keep looking at the fight here's my opinion

the only time he came remotely close to hurting Bill is when he sucker punched him. Otherwise Beta had that fight in his hands almost easily

That wasn't really necessary to say. For starters Beta Ray Bill is more powerful than Rulk, so hurting him in any way is quite impressive. Second of all it wasn't a sucker punch in any way, Bill seen Sam coming. Sam escaped, and Bill says "uh" looking down at him and the crater. He was aware that Bill was free. All you really did was present a speed feat for Sam because he flew to Bill and punched him in the face before he could react. So thank you for that. Lastly if the fight when it's quite obvious Bill would win, so doesn't mean anything. He would stomp Rulk too, it's not bad or anything. Sam is still finding out his power and abilities and look how powerful he is now. Who knows he can probably be as powerful as Richard Rider before he obtained the Full Nova Force.

Hardly seems like the person he is hitting has Rulk durability. I mean we are talking about a guy who broke Ares' Axe

Two things.

First off, that scan wasn't to show a striking feat for Sam in any way. It was just to show that he can enhance his striking power with the Nova Force energy to obtain a much more powerful hit. I'm aware the being wasn't anywhere as durable as Rulk. I can give you a striking feat that may be more for your liking though, cause this one wasn't for that. Here is Sam showing he has the strength to hurt Kluh with a single. Remember Kluh would be more powerful than Rulk. So that says something.

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Secondly Rulk never broke Ares's actual axe in the sense the more durable side. He didn't break the metal part that actually does the piercing damage. He broke the stick part. I see this feat when people try to use it to show Rulk's strength, and it's not that actuate.

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Here is it smaller. You seem to misinterpret the scan.

How far away from the Earth was he?

Well seeing as how he was near Saturn when the Phoenix was coming, I would say by time the Phoenix caught him he was still a considerable distance from the earth.

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Rulk was hit hard enough by Angrir to be knocked from New York to Vermont and still remain conscious

Angrir isn't nearly as powerful as the Phoenix Force, not to mention that's striking damage compared to the Phoenix Force using energy blasts. Even the distance isn't that comparable.

Captain Mar-Vell was hit to Earth from Saturn by Thanos. (and IIRC he remained conscious as well)

I remember that, insanely impressive. Don't see why you presented it though.

to really say thats a good durability feat you need more information

I think I've shown enough to show he was hit by a powerful entity over a large distance and was still conscious for a bit.

I need some solid striking feats and damage output to tell me that Nova isnt gonna just annoy Rulk

I've shown Sam is capable of hurting Kluh with his punches. Who is more powerful than Rulk himself. Also don't get too attached to Sam and physical combat, because he mostly relies on energy blasts which he will be utilizing in this fight more. He's smart enough to know not to engage Rulk too much physically. Especially since he can remember back on to his fight with Kluh, and how it went.

I need some strong reaction feats

It's kind of weird that you ask me for reaction feats, when i'm the one using the character with fast speed. I mean I should be asking you for reaction speeds to show Rulk can tag Sam. Either way it's a debate, so i'll show. Sam was capable of dodging a sword swing from Gamora easily. He wasn't even paying attention, and he still reacted fast enough to dodge Gamora's sword swing. Quite impressive if you ask me.

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Gamora is pretty damn fast by the way.

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I also need some blunt force durability feats as that is what Rulk primarily does

He doesn't really have too many feats against striking. That's most likely because he's a new character and all, but he does have some. He's shrugged off a punch from a giant robot (Warbringer) quite easily. I'm not saying he can easily shrug of Rulk's punches, but he can surely tank some of them.

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He then goes to shrug off one which seems to be far more devastating. Although it doesn't really hurt Sam at all.

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I think he can take Rulk's punches. Seeing as how morals are on, Rulk won't be punching with full force anyways.

I have much more to say, but i'll save it for later on in the debate. Your turn.

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#17 Posted by Nathaniel_Adam (3703 posts) - - Show Bio

Good luck guys!

Tag 4 Votes

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#18 Posted by TheVivas (18985 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, tag for votes dudes

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#19 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure I'll finish this up tomorrow, my post got eaten like yours did, lol.

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#20 Edited by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure I'll finish this up tomorrow, my post got eaten like yours did, lol.

it gets pretty f**king annoying doesnt it.

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#21 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure said:

@heirtothekingdom said:

@serrure I'll finish this up tomorrow, my post got eaten like yours did, lol.

it gets pretty f**king annoying doesnt it.

Sorry for the wait, been busy. My post is finally up though.

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#22 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: i swear i havent forgotten about this I uh... well ok i forgot on accident but ill have post up today

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#23 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: i swear if this thing eats my post one more time i will break something... we are up to 5 total now

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#25 Posted by TheNewBlueBeetle007 (4758 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: PM yourself and just copy-paste it

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#26 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom:

Round 2

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alright im gonna do my best here

Rulk is indeed quite intelligent, I wouldn't go and say extremely intelligent though. He's more of just a tactical guy, although not entirely on Captain America's level. It will help him in this fight, but not how you think it will. Also I never said Sam was that smart, just that he sometimes out-smarts his enemies, which I could see happening to Rulk. Ross doesn't utilize his tactical abilities usual unless he's loosing a fight, in-which Sam can rack up plenty of damage by then.

during the entire Thunderbolts run all Ross did was use his tactical Intelligence.

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while not even in a fight Rulk explains why the Leader loses to the Hulk every single time

That's impressive and all, but there is only so much he can do. It's not like he's facing someone like Quicksilver who's extremely fast on the ground, we're talking about someone who flies at extremely fast speeds. How does Ross deal with that? You can't really counter something that can hit you before you react. Well at least not with Ross's power-set.

How will Ross overcome his vast speed?

ahh good yes... he will simply wait for Nova to get close... lets use examples

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while not even 100% (seriously Punisher shot him with something that kept him from reverting back into Rulk for an extended period of time) Rulk was tangling with Hyperion and Sunspot. not even 100%

and we all know how Sam handled his first encounter with a hulk

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he got in close and Kluh broke his arm. he barely not away. Only difference is Ross isnt dumb enough to try to eat Sam nor is he dumb enough to let Sam punch up his nose (im not sure thats possible anyways)

How does that help him tag Sam who can fly at extreme heights? He can into space (he obviously won't here, but you get what I mean) He's going to have trouble tagging Sam, and there isn't any proof he can reach him with a thunderclap. Although if it does hit Sam he can very well take it as Sam has taken powerful blasts from a giant Chitarui which at best immobilized him for a few seconds. Heck he even smiles after he takes the blast, which shows it didn't hurt him that much.

Sentry and Hyperion are both people who fly at extreme speeds yet Rulk seemed just find taking them on.

Rulk is not as grounded as you think

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Rulk can easily move around the battlefield at a speed that should be near impossible for anyone his size

and if you want to talk about tanking energy blasts lets talk about the guy made of pure energy

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oh and as Ross notes in the last scan Zzzax was performing much better this time than any other time Rulk had seen him.

so how bad do you Novas blasts are really going to hurt him

Highly impressive feat I'll give you that. I see what your trying to do here, and it's not going to work. No one was utilizing their speed that much, well at least no where near full potential. It's usually what happens in Marvel when characters fight brutes like Rulk. The difference between Sam and them is that Sam uses his speed in every single battle he's in. I'm not even joking or stretching, every comic book fight Sam's been in he's usually always uses his speed. As for the fight they weren't going all out on Rulk, plus he didn't win, it didn't have an outcome. He had the upper-hand though, I'll give you that.

Sam can bull-rush Rulk down like this, and blast him continuously. Rulk can't necessarily do anything to stop this.

So you're plan is to fly up close into Rulks striking area. i see, I support this plan. Rulk is more than capable of tanking a bull rush especially if it gets Nova close to him.

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Red Hulk was literally stabbed straight through. As you can see it clearly bothers him allot. no he only tanks several of MODOKS blasts afterwords (keep in mind a few of these put Red She-Hulk down)

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this armor was made out of Vibranium... or at least i had Vibranium in it as Samson indicated in the first scan. Rulk punched through it in 1 hit, after tanking a beat down.

Except before that Wolverine was slicing him up, and Rulk finally tagged him in the last part. It's always been known that Hulk's had trouble keeping up with Wolverine.

Yes and Rulk seemed really angry and hurt by those stabs?

He tosses Wolverine after he was slashed up. We known that Rulk would beat Logan, it's the fact that he can barely keep up with Logan is what i'm getting at.

except not really

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Rulk literally stomps Agent Venom, Elektra, Punisher, and Deadpool. 3 of those 4 people have speed comparable to Wolverine, 1 of them has more damage output than Wolverine does.

and he seems real hurt here. Wolverine as usual is out of his league against any of the male Hulks

In that occasion Beta Ray Bill used his shields because he was protecting the Skrulls behind him. Doesn't really change the fact that Bill is more of a tanker and usually tanks things.

and given that BRB has tanked blasts from Galactus with out his shield. I dont think you can say his blast was powerful because BRB chose to use a shield from it. or are you trying to say that the blast was in the same league of Galactus

First off, that scan wasn't to show a striking feat for Sam in any way. It was just to show that he can enhance his striking power with the Nova Force energy to obtain a much more powerful hit. I'm aware the being wasn't anywhere as durable as Rulk. I can give you a striking feat that may be more for your liking though, cause this one wasn't for that. Here is Sam showing he has the strength to hurt Kluh with a single. Remember Kluh would be more powerful than Rulk. So that says something.

ehh heres the Thing Sam isnt going to be able to actually hurt Rulk physically and as for Energy attacks well... hes tanked em from the likes of Zzzaxx and Thor...

im not really viewing energy as an option here

Well seeing as how he was near Saturn when the Phoenix was coming, I would say by time the Phoenix caught him he was still a considerable distance from the earth.

alright its impressive but its also almost useless. first off Nova was pretty much knocked out, secondly the Phoenix is all energy, something he wont face here at all.

Angrir isn't nearly as powerful as the Phoenix Force, not to mention that's striking damage compared to the Phoenix Force using energy blasts. Even the distance isn't that comparable.

1. Angrir hits allot harder than Sam, allot harder

2. exactly my point. shows Nova cannot use striking force to beat Rulk

3. you cant really say that as we have no idea how long Nova was conscious

I've shown Sam is capable of hurting Kluh with his punches. Who is more powerful than Rulk himself. Also don't get too attached to Sam and physical combat, because he mostly relies on energy blasts which he will be utilizing in this fight more. He's smart enough to know not to engage Rulk too much physically. Especially since he can remember back on to his fight with Kluh, and how it went.

Say what? run that by me again. when Red Hulk and Hulk were joined together by Impossible Man they destroyed Kluh

Axis was not the first time Kluh has been introduced. not to mention that Kluh has not the feats to suggest to he can even hold a candle to Rulk or Hulk.

and ive shown that energy blasts will do very very little to Red Hulk

It's kind of weird that you ask me for reaction feats, when i'm the one using the character with fast speed. I mean I should be asking you for reaction speeds to show Rulk can tag Sam. Either way it's a debate, so i'll show. Sam was capable of dodging a sword swing from Gamora easily. He wasn't even paying attention, and he still reacted fast enough to dodge Gamora's sword swing. Quite impressive if you ask me.

But ive provided a fairly good amount. Sam is faster yes. but he still has shown nothing that supports he can dodge Rulk in close quarter combat.

I think he can take Rulk's punches. Seeing as how morals are on, Rulk won't be punching with full force anyways.

I have much more to say, but i'll save it for later on in the debate. Your turn.

Say what? I have absolutely zero scans that Rulk ever pulled his punches... ever. did i miss something, Ross isnt the guy who holds back even a little.

Food for Thought

with the kind of stuff Rulk tanks on a consistent basis Sam will have no choice but to get close to Rulk and it will be the end of him.

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#27 Edited by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure:

Round 2

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alright im gonna do my best here

Sounds good.

during the entire Thunderbolts run all Ross did was use his tactical Intelligence.

I agree he was, I read the entire Thunderbolts run. Ross was pretty damn tactical. Although you're getting me wrong, I know he's tactical, I just don't see how it's going to help him fight a character who could fly around him many times before he moves.

while not even in a fight Rulk explains why the Leader loses to the Hulk every single time

That's more of him just stating the obvious than being tactical to be honest.

ahh good yes... he will simply wait for Nova to get close... lets use examples

I opened the thread and seen Sunspot, I instantly knew what you were trying to do.

while not even 100% (seriously Punisher shot him with something that kept him from reverting back into Rulk for an extended period of time) Rulk was tangling with Hyperion and Sunspot. not even 100%

Okay I have a couple of things to say here.

  1. He tangled with Hyperion, yes, but he didn't do anything. Hyperion was knocking him all around, and Rulk was just there taking it. At best you can say he tanked blows from Hyperion.
  2. If your suggesting he kept up with Hyperion, your wrong again. If he was to have been keeping up, he would've blocked or countered blows. Instead he was getting knocked around.
  3. Sam isn't Sunspot, he's many times faster, not to mention he isn't going to punch a Hulk and than stand there when he see's it won't have any effect. He's much faster and would evade. Like I've shown him evading Kluh another typical brute. Also a punch from Sam would do much more damage than one from Sunspot.

Not really a good counter.

and we all know how Sam handled his first encounter with a hulk

Well we all know Hulk is more powerful than Rulk already, and Kluh is more powerful than Hulk, so what's so bad about losing? He overestimated his abilities, and lost. What's bad about that? He understood what he did wrong, and when he fought Kluh he tossed him into space. He's fought and learned his lesson, proved that he has what it takes to remove a Hulk, a more powerful one at that from battle, while you present an inferior one. What's stopping him from doing that now?

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Heck Sam was thinking of using it against Carnage recently. What can Rulk do to prevent such a thing? Also before you say no BFR, he doesn't have to. He can bring Rulk into space, and knock him out there where can't move or defend him self much. Which isn't BFR.

he got in close and Kluh broke his arm. he barely not away. Only difference is Ross isnt dumb enough to try to eat Sam nor is he dumb enough to let Sam punch up his nose (im not sure thats possible anyways)

He isn't as dumb, but he still lacks the speed to do any of what you suggest. Sam was easily evading Kluh when he wanted too, and there is nothing to say Rulk is faster than a more powerful Hulk. He's just too fast. Easily dodging Kluh.

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Also Rulk wouldn't go and break a little kids arm, we both know that. He's not ruthless like that. Not that he will get the chance to anyways, as I said. Sam's fight with Kluh taught him a lot, he knows not to get into close combat with a Hulk for too long as he risks accidently getting struck. The second fight proved all of this, and I don't think this needs to be discussed anymore.

Sentry and Hyperion are both people who fly at extreme speeds yet Rulk seemed just find taking them on.

They weren't even utilizing their speed in those occurances though. Well actually Hyperion did, and he knocked Rulk around which shows something. Sentry didn't though. He just sort of flew up to him. Just because they have super speed. doesn't mean it's going to be used in a fight always.

Rulk is not as grounded as you think

That's cool and all, but you do know Sam can literally travel at speeds as fast as light right? I mean the boy literally flew many times around Kluh before he knew what happened.

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Your trying to tell me that Rulk is going to jump off walls and such before Sam can tag him? Sam is so much faster. He can literally fly around the building many times then reach the top before Rulk does. Also, he's pretty much grounded compared to the heights Sam can fly.

Rulk can easily move around the battlefield at a speed that should be near impossible for anyone his size

Still not fast enough to tag the human rocket. What is he going to do with that speed? multiply it 10x and it's still not on Sam's level. There is also the fact that Sam can produce holographic images to fool Rulk. He's made of him and Beta Ray Bill in the past.

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oh and as Ross notes in the last scan Zzzax was performing much better this time than any other time Rulk had seen him.

That's impressive and all, but there are different forms of energy. Which would have different effects. For example Hulks could tank lighting as shown when they fight Thor, but are damaged when they come into contact with extreme heat. Also Zzzax can produce more damage, but Sam can do more over time as Rulk can't really tag him. He can blast Rulk all around until he's knocked out.

so how bad do you Novas blasts are really going to hurt him

Not too much, but a lot of them will knock him out.

So you're plan is to fly up close into Rulks striking area. i see, I support this plan. Rulk is more than capable of tanking a bull rush especially if it gets Nova close to him.

Once again, Sam can literally fly in striking Rulk, and be out before he knows what him him. What's stopping Sam from doing this? Surely a blow like this will send Rulk hurling enough for Sam to follow up with energy blasts.

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Red Hulk was literally stabbed straight through. As you can see it clearly bothers him allot. no he only tanks several of MODOKS blasts afterwords (keep in mind a few of these put Red She-Hulk down)

Sam doesn't use piercing weapons, and i'm aware Rulk can tank lot's of punishment. It doesn't help that the attacks he'll take in this battle will be too fast for him to react too. That's what I'm trying to get at.

this armor was made out of Vibranium... or at least i had Vibranium in it as Samson indicated in the first scan. Rulk punched through it in 1 hit, after tanking a beat down.

How can Rulk punch through Vibranium? I believe it's even more durable than Adamantium, and even Thor could only dent Adamantium. Something doesn't add up there, as even if he could (which is impossible), he surely couldn't do so with one strike.

Yes and Rulk seemed really angry and hurt by those stabs?

Rulk was hurt by those stabs though.

Rulk literally stomps Agent Venom, Elektra, Punisher, and Deadpool. 3 of those 4 people have speed comparable to Wolverine, 1 of them has more damage output than Wolverine does.

Okay.

and he seems real hurt here. Wolverine as usual is out of his league against any of the male Hulks

I agree somewhat.

and given that BRB has tanked blasts from Galactus with out his shield. I dont think you can say his blast was powerful because BRB chose to use a shield from it. or are you trying to say that the blast was in the same league of Galactus

Beta Ray Bill wasn't aware Galactus was going to blast him in that occurrence. Had he known, he would have probably shielded. Also i'm just saying, Bill could have easily tanked the blast, but he used a force-field, which likely means it was quite powerful. Also in no way did I say it was comparable to a blast from Galactus, that's what your saying right now. Also different writers use different abilities and such, so you can't really compare.

ehh heres the Thing Sam isnt going to be able to actually hurt Rulk physically and as for Energy attacks well... hes tanked em from the likes of Zzzaxx and Thor...

im not really viewing energy as an option here

Just because Rulk has tanked blasts from stronger beings, doesn't mean it didn't hurt him, nor anyone less powerful could hurt him. Sam may not have as much firepower, but he can surely rack up damage with repeated blasts of energy.

Sam has easily blasted open extremely large space crafts

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alright its impressive but its also almost useless. first off Nova was pretty much knocked out, secondly the Phoenix is all energy, something he wont face here at all.

So crashing into the earth from space isn't a showing of durability against physicality? True. We'll let the voters determine that.

1. Angrir hits allot harder than Sam, allot harder

He does, but why is that relevant? I compared Angrir to the Phoenix Force.

2. exactly my point. shows Nova cannot use striking force to beat Rulk

What? Even after all I've shown your telling me repeated blows can hurt Rulk?

3. you cant really say that as we have no idea how long Nova was conscious

Actually I have evidence that he was conscious for a little bit AFTER the fall.

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Sorry for the foreign language. I had to find these scans online, but here is Sam conscious for quite some time before knocking out.

Say what? run that by me again. when Red Hulk and Hulk were joined together by Impossible Man they destroyed Kluh

That may be true, although you just tried to make a case that Rulk was more powerful than Kluh, yet you say it took him, Hulk and Impossible Man to take him down. I'm confused.

Axis was not the first time Kluh has been introduced. not to mention that Kluh has not the feats to suggest to he can even hold a candle to Rulk or Hulk.

It's an entirely different Kluh. It's been explained thus, and it has been hinted at that he was more powerful. C'mon we both know he was more powerful than Rulk. Tell me next time when Rulk goes around fighting everyone and destroying everything, and everyone's scared to fight him. Cause that was what happened with Kluh, all the heroes left or villains didn't want to engage him. Had that been Rulk, you could have been sure than Absorbing Man or someone would have fought him. Feat's aren't everything.

and ive shown that energy blasts will do very very little to Red Hulk

You've tried to show that, but reall your scans indicate it does a lot, it's just that he has a high pain tolerance and a healing factor. Sam can hurt him, especially over time.

But ive provided a fairly good amount. Sam is faster yes. but he still has shown nothing that supports he can dodge Rulk in close quarter combat.

This is quite funny. First of all Sam can literally fly in punch Rulk and out before the pain even kicks in, lol. The guy literally flew across the galaxy from the Phoenix Force and your trying to tell me he can't dodge Rulk in close quarters? When since were Hulk's fast? Your trying to compare one of the slowest powerhouses in Marvel to one of it's newly faster ones, and it doesn't work. I've shown numerous of things to show Sam will keep out of Rulk's reach with his speed. Tell me how Rulk reacts to his attacks?

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Ealy blocks a sword slash from Gamora, and constant fire from Rocket Racoon. Show me something noteworthy of Rulk to show he can even see Sam.

Say what? I have absolutely zero scans that Rulk ever pulled his punches... ever. did i miss something, Ross isnt the guy who holds back even a little.

So Rulk is going to punch a teenager with all of his strength? Yeah, sounds like Rulk to me. This is not someone Rulk would go all out against, and I think deep down you know that.

with the kind of stuff Rulk tanks on a consistent basis Sam will have no choice but to get close to Rulk and it will be the end of him.

To end my post let me leave you with this. Sam has easily tossed Kluh into space, I think he could easily do it to Rulk too.

Although to make things easier, Sam can just open a portal and bring Rulk through it into space for easier and safer travel. :P

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Yeah, and they giant too. So all he would have to do is open one to deep space, and bombard Rulk with energy blasts and such. Rulk couldn't do much in space to stop it and would eventually go down.

Conclusion

  • Sam is much faster than Rulk, and the brute will have trouble even tagging him. Even if he is tagged, Sam can take a few blows before going down
  • Sam has the advantage with speed, flight, ranged attacks, and being able to open portal almost anywhere
  • Sam can easily blast Rulk from afar with energy or just simply fly in and hit him before Rulk can retaliate
  • If all goes bad he can simply bring Rulk into space where he literally takes an instant win as Rulk can't do anything there
  • Rulk has literally one means of attacking, and it's not going to do good against a character who can fly and move at incredible speeds

I think that ends round 2.

Your turn.

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#28 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure said:

@heirtothekingdom said:

@serrure said:

@heirtothekingdom: damn you're quick...

Haha, sure am :P

you're f***ing aggravating with how hard im having to work for this fight here. ill have a reply up tomorrow

Lol, I think we should make this our final post. We've done 3 already. That's if you want that?

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#32 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: oh yeah im cool with that also i imagine youve run out of issues/scans with Sam eh?

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#33 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: Sounds good. Also not really run out, but more of the fact of feats that would help against someone as powerful as Rulk.

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#34 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: so you wanted to open this up to votes now or after another post... (theres a very small chance im not 100% mentally capable right now)

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#35 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure:

I'm okay if votes opened now, I think I presented most of what I wanted to get across.

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#36 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Edited by SodamYat (7907 posts) - - Show Bio

Heirtothekingdom won this. These are his arguments that won me over:

  • Sam has the advantage with speed, flight, ranged attacks, and being able to open portal almost anywhere
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#40 Posted by Speedster101 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Speedster101 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: @heirtothekingdom: HTTK gets my vote. You both did awesome but here's why he won imo.

1. I felt like he had a more reliable win condition

2. I don't think Serrure had a legit way to land a decisive blow on Rulk

3. HTTK showed Nova had 2 ways to defeat Rulk... BFR and he showed how he could actually straight up beat hulk (with his Kluh scans)

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#42 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by Jacthripper (14402 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: You really should get up a third post if you can, I'll look at this in a bit.

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#44 Edited by Nathaniel_Adam (3703 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: I think your scans/feats were more convincing and showed sam using his speed on a character very similar to Rulk speed is what he needs in this fight to avoid rulks super strength and then using ranged attacks as a way to beat him or opeinig Portal what rulk has no answer to

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#45 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure: bro. final post needs to be done here. And no tag? WTF dude?

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#46 Posted by Thedailybagel (12559 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't decided who to vot for yet but I felt like saying something about all the Kluh scans...

For one: Sam did crap against him. He couldn't even avoid Kluh for too long, he tried flying around him as fast as he could (which the narration said was a few times the speed of sound) and he still got hit. Heck, he even got hit to Paris in one punch and had his helmet half broken due to it. He also didn't really hurt him either despite giving him everything he had.

Two: Kluh didn't do anything to prove he was above regular hulk. From what I've read the heroes weren't scared to fight him, they just couldn't be bothered to (being evil and all).

And finally: I think a better case would've been made if Kluh was shown as an example of sams tactical thinking. In their fight he constantly switched tactics and in their second encounter he learned from his mistakes and opted for a BFR (something which was touched upon). Personally I felt that too much of it was used to show sams power and not enough displayed his tactical thinking.

Anywho, I'll try give my vote later in the week after reading through it a few more times.

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#47 Posted by Lvenger (36168 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't decided who to vot for yet but I felt like saying something about all the Kluh scans...

For one: Sam did crap against him. He couldn't even avoid Kluh for too long, he tried flying around him as fast as he could (which the narration said was a few times the speed of sound) and he still got hit. Heck, he even got hit to Paris in one punch and had his helmet half broken due to it. He also didn't really hurt him either despite giving him everything he had.

Two: Kluh didn't do anything to prove he was above regular hulk. From what I've read the heroes weren't scared to fight him, they just couldn't be bothered to (being evil and all).

And finally: I think a better case would've been made if Kluh was shown as an example of sams tactical thinking. In their fight he constantly switched tactics and in their second encounter he learned from his mistakes and opted for a BFR (something which was touched upon). Personally I felt that too much of it was used to show sams power and not enough displayed his tactical thinking.

Anywho, I'll try give my vote later in the week after reading through it a few more times.

I was going to say something similar actually. And that Serrue might really benefit from making a third post too.

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#48 Posted by Thedailybagel (12559 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by DrF8 (3309 posts) - - Show Bio

Nova i guess

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#50 Posted by Lvenger (36168 posts) - - Show Bio

So do you really want me to vote now @serrure?