CaV: Rob Lucci (Defiant_Will) vs Gang Ryong (HigherPower)

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#1  Edited By defiant_will

Rob Lucci (Defiant_Will) vs Gang Ryong (HigherPower)
Rob Lucci (Defiant_Will) vs Gang Ryong (HigherPower)

RULES

  • PTS Rob Lucci
  • Pre-Pacheon-Fight Gang Ryong
  • In Character
  • Fight to K.O. or Death
  • Fighters Start 20 Feet Apart
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#3  Edited By HitTheAssasin

TAEP.

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#4  Edited By defiant_will

For this post, I will be taking a different approach to this battle. Rather than making this a respect thread of all of Rob Lucci's abilities, I will be much more proactive and really press on Rob Lucci's advantages over Gang Ryong that will win him this fight.

ROB LUCCI | THE ASSASIN OF CP9

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BIO

Rob Lucci is one of the main villains of the Water 7 saga of One Piece. He was trained since a young age as a government agent and is a follower of dark justice, being willing to do anything or kill anyone in order to protect the government's agents. He first made a name for himself at age thirteen when he resolved a hostage situation... by killing all 500 hostages. He became a member of the secret group CP9 and is regarded as its strongest member ever. The Straw Hat pirates first encountered him when he was working undercover in the Galley La ship building company in order to recover the blueprints for the ancient weapon Pluton. He then came into conflict with the pirates when he arrested Nico Robin and they tried to rescue her, first at Water 7 and then at the Judicial Island of Enies Lobby. Both times he proved to be one of Luffy's most formidable adversaries

ADVANTAGES

Strength- One of Rob Lucci's biggest advantages over Gang Ryong is his raw physical strength. Rob Lucci can casually push open a gargantuan, thick steel door with one hand, a feat he pulled off in his first appearance:

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Later on in Water 7, Lucci was able to casually overpower Luffy with one hand. This feat is impressive because just a few chapters later, Luffy was able to push down two buildings while in a very disadvantageous position. And yet Lucci handled him like he was some run of the mill pirate scrub.

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Flash forwarding to Enies Lobby arc, Rob Lucci is then able to casually stalemate a Bazooka attack from Luffy with a kick. For reference, BoS Luffy was able to send enemies flying to other islands with this same Bazooka attack. While Luffy didn't stretch his arms as far back as he did when accomplishing these feats, Luffy undergoing training and the fact that these feats were accomplished BoS should compensate for that. At the very least, Lucci canceled out an attack with enough power to send him to another island, but that is in my opinion a severe lowball given the context of the feat.

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I will leave things at this for now in terms of strength, but my point still stands. From what I have seen of Gang Ryong, he is comparable in strength to pre Water 7 arc Luffy in strength. I mean Luffy's feats of bedrock busting and sending enemies to other islands is easily comporable if not superior to all of Ryong's best feats prior to his fight with Pacheon. And yet, as we saw in my second set of scans, he was absolutely manhandled by Lucci, conveying to readers the vast disparity in strength betweeen Lucci and Luffy. In terms of how Lucci's strength would stack up against Ryong's durability, Lucci's striking strength is impressive in its own right, and while I am not claiming he will one shot Ryong, a few good shot should put him out for the count.

Speed- This is Lucci's most significant advantage over Ryong as I will elaborate on later. Lucci is most definitely high hypersonic at least in speed, while Ryong is in the high supersonic ranges, low end hypersonic at best.

To fully convey to you Lucci's insane speed advantage, we first need to talk about the scaling behind it. Doriki is a measurement for one's overall combat ability, and the exact measurements can be seen below.

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The most relevant character of that list is Jabra, who was able to dodge Usopp's projectiles quite casually. These same projectiles could cross MASSIVE distances in a short span of time, easily a hypersonic feat. And Jabra reacted to them casually. Note that Jabra is 2 nearly times less powerful than Lucci.

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If you need more proof of Lucci's insane reaction speed, look no further than Lucci casually evading Paulie's Rope.

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The same person could completely entangle a giant within a panel with the same rope. Given the size of the giant, this is easily a high supersonic, low hypersonic feat of speed for Paulie's rope, and the speed of the rope Paulie launched at Lucci in this particular scene should be even faster given that it is going in a straight line and not curving around.

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In terms of movement speed, Lucci is no slouch in that department either. To start off with, Lucci can casually blitz and one shot Nero, who had used Soru, a technique that allows the user to move at Massively FTE speeds through kicking off from the ground. Despite this, Lucci was still able to percieve and one shot him in an epic exemplification of speed.

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This same character could practically dance around gunfire with Soru:

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With Soru, Lucci is a different beast altogether. In his first encounter with Luffy, he completely blitzed Luffy, moving FTE to him and tagging him with a Shigan (a technique I will expand upon later). An arc prior, Luffy was able to casually react to an explosion in a split second. This feat from Luffy alone is comparable to Ryong's feat of evading a point blank FTE attack for pretty obvious reasons.

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That does it for speed. Lucci should be more than capable of blitzing Luffy given his immense reaction speed and movement speed. This gives way for a potential blitz on Lucci's part.

Durability- Lucci's durability is insane. Like very very good.

To waste no time, Lucci has a technique called Tekkai, which can harden one's body. This technique allowed him to no sell a Gatling attack from Luffy, the same attack that allowed a weakened, fatigued, poisoned, and injured Luffy to break through several meters of bedrock.

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This feat alone should be above Ryong's paygrade. And while you may say this is only with Tekkai, given Lucci's superior reaction speed, he will always be able to activate Tekkai when Ryong attempts to attack him.

Piercing Attacks- Lastly we have Lucci's piercing attacks, attacks that can end the game for Ryong should they land.

For one there is Lucci's Shigan, an attack that can pierce through thick metal.

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ADDRESSING POTENTIAL DISADVANTAGES

Paralysis- While a potent ability in Ryong's arsenal, I have a question. Has it only been used on fodder? Because from what I have seen of Ryong (which is pretty limited admittedly, hence why I am asking this question), it seems that the intimidation ability hasn't been used against big name opponents in the series, and functions like Haki in aesthetic and power. If this is the case, then I doubt this will work on Lucci given that he is anything but fodder. I mean it would be the equivalent of be arguing that Conquer's Haki could only one shot Naruto or something like that, which wouldn't be very convincing.

Intimidation- A very powerful ability indeed, but one that I question how in character it is for Ryong to use. Has he ever started off a 1v1 battle this way? From what I've seen, he usually uses it for strategic purposes under specific circumstances, and hasn't used it in a straight up fight, at least not from jump. And make no mistake, if intimidation isn't Ryong's first move, he is screwed because Lucci will blitz him to high heaven.

To keep things simple, my stratedgy here is for Lucci to blitz Ryong and either abuse his striking strength or one shot piercing attacks.

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TAEP

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#10  Edited By HigherPower

@defiant_will: Finally got around to this. I want to say I like your approach to the match; you set up your post in a way that makes it really easy for me to counter your points in an organized fashion.

Also as a disclaimer: If you're unfamiliar with webtoons, they are single strip comics that are meant to be read electronically via scrolling down a screen. So the individual scans I'm posting are incredibly long (average 3k pixels in length), so I suggest opening and closing spoiler blocks as you go for a better reading experience.

Introduction to Gang Ryong — The Master

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Rebuttals

Strength- One of Rob Lucci's biggest advantages over Gang Ryong is his raw physical strength. Rob Lucci can casually push open a gargantuan, thick steel door with one hand, a feat he pulled off in his first appearance

Gang has the strength advantage here. That feat for Lucci is unimpressive for this tier, and knowing this you probably tried to attenuate that fact by mentioning the feat was completed in his first appearance. I thank you for doing so, because it pales in comparison to a feat Gang completed in his first ever appearance, so the juxtaposition of the two will make it easy to identify who's superior in this regard.

In Gang's first appearance, he obliterated a large hill from hitting a man into it with a palm strike. Destroying the hill is impressive by itself, considering its size of being at least dozens of meters in height (visually), but he did so casually, with no effort, and while holding back.

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This is disproportionately superior to the feat you posted for Lucci. But of course, Lucci obviously wasn't trying and it's not his best feat. So from hereon I'll just counter every feat you post for Lucci with a demonstrably better one.

Or more accurately, I'll counter all the scaling you bring up for Lucci.

Later on in Water 7, Lucci was able to casually overpower Luffy with one hand. This feat is impressive because just a few chapters later, Luffy was able to push down two buildings while in a very disadvantageous position. And yet Lucci handled him like he was some run of the mill pirate scrub.

Gang simply concentrating his ki (energy) in large quantities spawned a massive tidal wave that flooded a forested valley with a town inside, completely destroying it.

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To reiterate: The aura emanating from Gang's body after he built up energy inside of him was so powerful it displaced enough water to bust a town as a side effect. Tens of millions of gallons of water flooded a valley without any physical exertion on his part. I'm not even sure how to stress the extent of how much this feat dwarfs... overpowering someone who pushed two buildings apart.

Flash forwarding to Enies Lobby arc, Rob Lucci is then able to casually stalemate a Bazooka attack from Luffy with a kick. For reference, BoS Luffy was able to send enemies flying to other islands with this same Bazooka attack. While Luffy didn't stretch his arms as far back as he did when accomplishing these feats, Luffy undergoing training and the fact that these feats were accomplished BoS should compensate for that. At the very least, Lucci canceled out an attack with enough power to send him to another island, but that is in my opinion a severe lowball given the context of the feat.

That's cool. Gang blocked a spear thrust from Doh Gyeom that was strong enough to bore gaping holes through not one, but two large hills (which were far apart) with residual air pressure, since most of the force of the attack was absorbed by Gang considering he caught the thrust and stopped the attack head on.

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Gang pretty much face-tanked Spiral Dance with a reflective ki barrier, and it still had enough power to gouge out considerable portions of those giant hills with air pressure. Which means the actual force Gang stopped was several times more powerful than the effect that caused the damage to their surroundings.

I will leave things at this for now in terms of strength, but my point still stands. From what I have seen of Gang Ryong, he is comparable in strength to pre Water 7 arc Luffy in strength. I mean Luffy's feats of bedrock busting and sending enemies to other islands is easily comporable if not superior to all of Ryong's best feats prior to his fight with Pacheon.

I wonder what were the feats you saw that compelled you to make such a provably false statement. Luffy breaking through bedrock and dislodging a city block in Alabasta is city block level+, which is the same tier as large hill busting. The difference is, Luffy used every ounce of strength for that feat, while Gang completed his casually, without effort and while holding back. Gang also has town busting feats even without any physical exertion; just as a side effect of swelling up his energy and cutting loose a teeny bit.

In terms of how Lucci's strength would stack up against Ryong's durability, Lucci's striking strength is impressive in its own right, and while I am not claiming he will one shot Ryong, a few good shot should put him out for the count.

Based on what though? I doubt Lucci could even hit a serious Gang, and not because speed, but because Gang can literally bend space with his Dark Wheel Strike to not get hit (black hole type technique).

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Dark Wheel is omni-directional and once it's deployed it stays up until he releases it or snuffs out his opponent's attack.

Gang's actual durability feats on top of this just make the idea of Lucci him down exponentially unrealistic. He ate a small hill busting punch from Dang Gan with no damage.

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Speed- This is Lucci's most significant advantage over Ryong as I will elaborate on later. Lucci is most definitely high hypersonic at least in speed, while Ryong is in the high supersonic ranges, low end hypersonic at best.

To fully convey to you Lucci's insane speed advantage, we first need to talk about the scaling behind it. Doriki is a measurement for one's overall combat ability, and the exact measurements can be seen below.

I have some reservations about your scaling for Lucci's speed as well as some disagreement. Doriki doesn't take Devil Fruit abilities into account when judging combat capability; it only measures physical strength according to Jabra. Strength and speed are separate in fiction, and even if it measures overall fighting ability, there would be other factors like durability/skill/versatility that influence the numbers.

Arguments involving power level scaling next to never work.

The most relevant character of that list is Jabra, who was able to dodge Usopp's projectiles quite casually. These same projectiles could cross MASSIVE distances in a short span of time, easily a hypersonic feat.

I won't bother arguing a speed advantage but I'll still counter your points. You didn't give an estimate for distance nor time frame here. You just slapped a random tier on the speed of the projectile with no objective evidence for hypersonic at all.

If you need more proof of Lucci's insane reaction speed, look no further than Lucci casually evading Paulie's Rope.

The same person could completely entangle a giant within a panel with the same rope. Given the size of the giant, this is easily a high supersonic, low hypersonic feat of speed for Paulie's rope, and the speed of the rope Paulie launched at Lucci in this particular scene should be even faster given that it is going in a straight line and not curving around.

??? How is that supersonic or hypersonic at all? Even if you say Paulie encircled Oimo under one second (which there's no proof of), it's still nowhere near approaching the speed of sound, let alone five or more times faster than it. The speed of sound travels at 343 per second. According to chapter 3 of a minibook written by Oda, Giants are 15m tall on average. Shirahoshi is 17m and she's bigger than both Oimo and Kashi (the two giants who guard Enies Lobby). Oars is 39m talland we are literally given a canonical size comparison of him to Oimo, Kashi, and a regular human.

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Oimo is 15 meters tall at best (supported by visuals). Meaning in order for Paulie's rope to even be mach 1, Paulie would have had to encircle him in 0.043 seconds...... For the feat to be around hypersonic, the time frame would have to be 0.0087 seconds, which, if it wasn't obvious already, you have literally no way to prove.

In terms of movement speed, Lucci is no slouch in that department either. To start off with, Lucci can casually blitz and one shot Nero, who had used Soru, a technique that allows the user to move at Massively FTE speeds through kicking off from the ground. Despite this, Lucci was still able to percieve and one shot him in an epic exemplification of speed.

This same character could practically dance around gunfire with Soru:

Solid feat, but I would place it at supersonic. Especially since Nero didn't "dance" around gunfire, rather he blitzed Franky who onlyr shot a single round projectile at him.

Furthermore, healthy Gang would be able to replicate that. As far as how fast Gang is, in combat he's capable of blitzing massively FTE characters with ease. One of his better combat speed feats was blitzing Soh Jinhong. Gang was lying down with his back against a wall with Soh directly in front of him and his line of sight. Pay careful attention to their positions. Gang also crouched down while blocking a downward slash from Soh, yet before Soh could process was happened (or tag, him, despite his blade being inches away from Gang) Gang appeared behind him out of nowhere and tapped a pressure point on his neck, knocking him out:

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Context-

This feat is uber impressive because Soh was capable of slashing trees and human bodies apart at stated FTE speeds:

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But most impressively, while under severe mental trauma, sleep deprivation, and on the verge of starving, Soh was able to butcher a room filled with dozens of trained killers at massively FTE speeds before any of them could react:

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With Soru, Lucci is a different beast altogether. In his first encounter with Luffy, he completely blitzed Luffy, moving FTE to him and tagging him with a Shigan (a technique I will expand upon later). An arc prior, Luffy was able to casually react to an explosion in a split second. This feat from Luffy alone is comparable to Ryong's feat of evading a point blank FTE attack for pretty obvious reasons.

That does it for speed. Lucci should be more than capable of blitzing Luffy given his immense reaction speed and movement speed. This gives way for a potential blitz on Lucci's part.

This is a far enough conclusion to draw as long as I continue to nerf myself the use of a certain feat.

To waste no time, Lucci has a technique called Tekkai, which can harden one's body. This technique allowed him to no sell a Gatling attack from Luffy, the same attack that allowed a weakened, fatigued, poisoned, and injured Luffy to break through several meters of bedrock.

This feat alone should be above Ryong's paygrade. And while you may say this is only with Tekkai, given Lucci's superior reaction speed, he will always be able to activate Tekkai when Ryong attempts to attack him.

Gang has attacks that bypass durability. His Space Sundering Palm Strike is an omnidirectional ki wave that covers miles of area in a few seconds and causes internal damage. He used it to OHKO dozens of zombies at once without touching them.

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Piercing Attacks- Lastly we have Lucci's piercing attacks, attacks that can end the game for Ryong should they land.

For one there is Lucci's Shigan, an attack that can pierce through thick metal.

Gang blocked a spear attack that blew through two large hills.

Paralysis- While a potent ability in Ryong's arsenal, I have a question. Has it only been used on fodder? Because from what I have seen of Ryong (which is pretty limited admittedly, hence why I am asking this question), it seems that the intimidation ability hasn't been used against big name opponents in the series, and functions like Haki in aesthetic and power. If this is the case, then I doubt this will work on Lucci given that he is anything but fodder.

It's true that what he did to the Baekma Valley fighters hasn't been used in combat against powerful opponents.

Intimidation- A very powerful ability indeed, but one that I question how in character it is for Ryong to use. Has he ever started off a 1v1 battle this way? From what I've seen, he usually uses it for strategic purposes under specific circumstances, and hasn't used it in a straight up fight, at least not from jump. And make no mistake, if intimidation isn't Ryong's first move, he is screwed because Lucci will blitz him to high heaven.

Intimidation isn't that kind of ability. In the Gosuverse everyone has ki/qi, and the larger amount you exude the more imposing you become. If the gap in power is large enough, Gang can force hallucinations on someone or even cause them to lose their sanity.