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#1 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio

Resident Evil: Jill ValentineRepresented by Sirfizzwizz

VS

Hitman: Agent 47Represented by Me====================================================

RulesIf you wish to be tagged for Votes, let me know below. Please no bickering in the comments or general discussion. Hold off until after.Standard Gear.No Prep.Basic Knowledge.No Outside Assistance.Both begin at opposite ends of the city.May the best debater win.Battlefield

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#2 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by deactivated-5ab47f6017f34 (3189 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#4 Posted by kotetsu454 (1086 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#5 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Edited by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag meh

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#7 Posted by AllStarSuperman (43248 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for sure. This will be great.

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#8 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@morleericks:

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Jill Valentine history and info here for people who care. http://residentevil.wikia.com/wiki/Jill_Valentine

Gear

Jill will have the standard gear in most games. Dual 9mm pistols, 5.56mm assault rifle, body armor, combat knife, and the P30 drug device from RE5.

First up, lets talk Jill's stats to get them out of the way so I can focus on the more important factors. As of now I feel Jill has the superior stats overall, though feel free to prove me wrong.

Strength

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Jill is able to send hundreds of pounds flying with a round house kick in several games.

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Jill's kick sends foes flying a dozen feet.

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Jill reacts, catches, and holds with one arm onto few hundred pounds of soldier, in full gear.

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Jill with no real little leverage , and holding her breath underwater rips down a steel grate.

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Jill is strong enough to push four separate stones weighing a easy half of ton.

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Jill was strong enough to shove Nemesis with enough force to crash through stone rails.

I dont think much argument can be made against Jill's strength. This is all feats at base strength and not including her better feats on the P-30 Drug she has here.

Durability

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Jill has strong enough resilience to be fatally poison by the Venom of Yawn, and still fight through a mansion of creatures to get the serum.

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Jill is impaled by Nemess, which infects her with the T-Virus. Infected, and wounded in the arm, Jill still beats Nemesis in a fight before fainting.

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Jill is temporary KOed by a slash from T-002 Tyrant. A lethal attack on everyone else.

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Jill survives a powerful hit from Wesker, one that generated a large shock wave from the impact, and the impact from the bookshelf she hits at high speeds. Getting right back into the fight.

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Jill survives jumping out the window of a fast moving trolley, and the explosive crash that follows it.

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Jill shrugs off a explosive blast that was strong enough collapse her exit.

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Jill tanks a Stinger Missile exploding right next to her, and the subsequent slamming into the shipping container.

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Jill gets caught up in the massive explosion, and after rolling dozens of yards down the side of the sinking ship, slams into the bulkhead. She gets right up and fights the final boss.

Like most 80s Action Stars, Jill has super human levels of durability to survive what is flat out impossible to survive. Im sure Hitman has similar BS feats in durability, but the fact is a single explosion or stab will not do the job.

Speed

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Jill shows speed enough to react to Chris walking up on her.

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Jill easily reacting and dodging dangerously close falling debris.

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Jill reacts faster than Chris to the falling gate trap. Saving him.

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Jill with her back turn reacts to a high speed throwing ax from a super human Plaga soldier.

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Jill reacts casually to a charging Cerberus hound.

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Jill easily avoids a Hunter's strike. Hunters are stated to be fast even by peak human standards.

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Jill easily evades the Tyrant's attack even though it was mere feet from her.

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Jill reacts to the speed of a striking viper in the form of Yawn.

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Jill is visually tricked by this illusion inducing B.O.W., and still reacts last second from the attack.

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Jill twice avoids the gunfire from one of Umbrella's best men, Nicholi. She reacts and rolls away after the gun shots are heard.

Again, without P30 drug which enhances reaction time, Jill shown incredible speeds to gunfire, and viper quick enemies. Im sure Hitman has similar feats too, but this is again base Jill without the drug.

Agility

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Jill shows the agility to preform several flips before landing dead on across a obstacle.

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Jill running through obstacles at full sprint, and even wall runs.

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Jill and Chris showing great agility to dodge the moving lasers coming at them.

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P30 Jill is able to show incredible wall running, agility, and even the ability to use her feet to cling to small surface areas to hang vertically.

Oone major advatage in this fight would be agility I feel. I think the parkour like abilities Jill has well lend well to a more mobile threat than Hitman is use too. We will see in upcoming arguments.

As for skill and accuracy, I will withhold those as they are the crux of the debate. Jill stats are here now to see what compares and does not, and to be refereed to in later post. This should be a close match, but one Jill wins the majority of.

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#10 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by geekryan (4749 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#12 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio

The Hitman | Agent 47

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Introduction

Born on 09/05/1964, Agent 47 is the result of decades of rigorous gene augmentation and clone testing. Agent 47 was created to be the perfect assassin. With enhanced physicals, stamina, strength, stealth, and immensely skilled in the art of killing; he has never failed a contract. 47 would grow under severe and harsh training methods to better prepare him for the world of contract killing that he would inevitably not only take part in, but relish inside of; and succeed beyond expectations. His flawless track record has labeled him as a ghost. An individual capable of conquering any mission placed in front of him with absolute ease and unwavering determination. After accepting a contract, it becomes the most important venture in life for him to not only complete without even the slightest loose end, but if he can accomplish the task without extinguishing the life of an innocent -- which is almost always the case -- he will get in and get out with the least amount of casualties possible.

He is the single most motivated Hitman known in an either fictional or non fictional basis. He is the legendary assassin. A ghost.

He is, Agent 47.

S1 - Innate Abilities

Point Shooting

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  • Here we see 47 mark the trained guards with pin point headshots. The firing of his guns themselves are less than or exactly a second in duration. That's me being modest. His aim is impeccable and his speed is staggering.

Instinct

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  • Here is an example of probably, 47's most useful ability -- Instinct. Using this, 47 is able to sense the surrounding area and understand the exact locations of his enemies/targets and where they are headed.
  • Even through solid objects and maze like and unknown territory, this Instinct ability lets 47 navigate his way through hostile locations without anyone in the vicinity noticing he is there. This will prove vital here

S2 - Physicals

> Strength

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  • Agent 47 kicks in and breaks open a locked hotel door while barefoot being pursued.

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Starting at 1:15, this scene is necessary as it hones in on and gives us a glimpse of his rather uncommon and rarely seen H2H ability as another agent of similar or supposed superior skill. Hitman however, is used to terminating those clones/assassins that are meant to be superior to his own make up. This is no different.

Also, why this is here, and not in my skills section; see at 1:29 that he is able to break apart a steel spear with one strike.

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  • 47 utilizes a piece of seemingly a helicopter blade in most brutal a fashion by taring into, and slicing clean through the torso of a fully geared operative on high alert.

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John Smith
John Smith
  • In this fight, 47 is going up against a superior agent who is able to not only tank, but absolve the penetration of his knife attack and with a slight jerk of his body-- break the blade entirely, while expressing no pain and continue fighting just fine.

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> Durability

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  • A show of durability; 47 and the same tough operative are sent over a subway railing and landing on an ongoing express train before being thrown off and onto the tunnel tracks.
  • Even so, they show no signs of fatigue or worst for wear. As a matter of fact, 47 shrugs it off and continues on fine.

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  • To prove this point; immediately after, a fight between the two ensue and 47 fights perfectly capable. As you can see his CQC skills hinted at again above.

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Who is John Smith? (Quite Unique in his own right)

John Smith blocks a bullet after it's fired
John Smith blocks a bullet after it's fired
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  • 47 out fights and out maneuvers John in close combat while intertwining both his H2H skill and deadly shooting.
  • Notice 47 aims and hits spot on, Smith's most vulnerable areas of his anatomy at point blank range. Including but not limited to his chest, neck and straight up skull shot.
  • Believe it or not John gets up from his final headshot and continues to engage 47.
  • 47 at this point had only been briefly bested by Smith once in a straight physical brawl due to his unexpected tanking ability, and this is their final fight.
  • Which 47 obviously wins after a tough battle.
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  • Evidence to 47's power. His strikes and fighting tactics seem to have more impact on the superior assassin than his bullets.
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  • He can punch clean through concrete walls and the hole created is rather deep.
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  • After enduring a healthy amount of blows from his opponent, 47's skill and garrote wire win the fight for him.
  • 47 proves his superiority via experience and clear skill advantage.

> Speed

47 -- Being a super enhanced clone assassin is ingrained with special abilities. With that, along comes superior strength, speed, intelligence, skill set.

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  • Here, 47 is able to predict when the bullet will fire and where it will fire in time enough to break the chain on his handcuffs. After the bullet was projected. Yes, he was focused and prepared for it, but it doesn't make the feat any less impressive.
  • Then he was able to react to and incap the guards before they realize what is going on.

S3 - Skillset

> Swordsmanship

  • This scene is necessary to display how in this film, "Hitman", we see that swords are every agent clone standard melee weaponry. His swords skills are also evident here as he engages one and sometimes multiple enhanced agents such as himself. Eventually coming out on top while sustaining very very little to no damage.

> Shooting/Marksmanship

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  • Here we see 47 perched on top of a distant building as he predicts the movement and pace of the car and judge its exact location in order for his shot to count.
  • He has to not only send the bullet past buildings but also work around a downward angle and have the bullet pass through a speeding bus as well.

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Unbelievable Shooting Skill - Hoards of Attackers Dropped

This scene shows his ability to maneuver around and kill targets unmercifully in even the most odd and unique of situations.

At :20, we see him strangle and kill a man without being noticed by anyone including the other threats that were seen nearby.

Loud alarms, Flickering lights and rotating auras of several colors do nothing to sway 47's ability to eliminate every single one of the incoming threats. He displays extremely precise and nigh - perfect aim with every one of these shots. He also gives us an example of his melee/H2H skill briefly throughout his onslaught. Also his evasive techniques from actual gunfire; evolving into a well placed kill shot of his own is impressive. He does this during the clip but see :52, for a highlighted version of that.

That's 19 kills against armed enemies in such a hostile environment in a little over a minute.

Here is 47 at a shooting range. Going against a revered and undefeated competitor in records. Then surpassing them (the records) easily.

> H2H Expertise

I won't share the H2H scenes I've already posted, but added onto the already shared proof of his fighting prowess, a few scrolls upward, is another example:

Sanchez vs 47 Starting at 6:50.

Sanchez is a monstrous prize fighter and personal bodyguard for the main antagonist of, "Hitman: Absolution". He borders superhuman himself just through sheer size and power. He was also able to KO 47 prior to this confrontation. However, when there are no other factors in play, and when in a fair hard nosed battle, he gets absolutely destroyed in up close combat. At no point are we led to believe he was going to even land a strike.

> Stealth

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  • Able to drop to the ground from above, making no noise or thud whatsoever.

Considered by most his most impressive unarmed feat.

I personally disagree with this assumption. Well, partially.

Why is this under the category of Stealth? Look below. Truth is, this could be prioritized under any of the mentioned sections but what makes this feat possible, is his use of stealth and element of surprise.

Leading up to the next scene of stealth and masterful killing, along with unarmed combat and shooting accuracy before most of them can even react. These "Saints", are considered the best assassins - besides 47 of course -- and are tasked with the assignment of eliminating 47. A little backstory on them here.

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Scene

Below clip is maybe 47's most impressive display of Stealth/Unarmed Combat. When we figure he not only had to sneak up on multiple of the world's greatest assassins; but he also had to do so in a wide open environment. These women put up a fight, but ultimately are just not enough to bring 47 down.

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Note that he also kills a few of them before the others are even aware of his presence. Showing great stealth again.

===========================================================================

Gear Loadout

Column HeadColumn HeadColumn Head
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Dual Suppressed Silver BallersMost precious and famed firearms are the Twin Silverballers.
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R 93 Sniper RifleUsually confined to a briefcase 47 carries. His aim is spot on.
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CoinsAgent 47 carries coins that prove to be a great distraction. Sound of money!
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Heckler & KochAlternate handgun choice of 47. Not preferable since it is far too noisy but 1 is equipped.
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Poison SyringeA quiet method of assassination. It is a concoction of a widely controlled substance (Sodium Pentothal) fused with 2 other deathly hazardous ingredients, (Potassium Chloride and Pancuronium Bromide) It will instantly take effect and kill the target upon injection.
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Fiber WireA staple of 47. Probably the most menacing and effective piece of equipment 47 carries.
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RU - AP Mine2 of these can be holstered and concealed. It being a mine; it harbors devastating effects in a 1 vs 1 match up.
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Twin SwordsAs seen in the film. Apparently it's standard for all agents.

Agent 47 is well prepared and well gifted when it comes to gear. However, I will not deny that he leaves something to be desired in the form of armor. unless he subdues a target and removes his/her armor for his own use, 47 is completely comfortable going into high risk and nearly impossible mission (such as breaking into the White House and killing the Vice President.....) with his regular attire. Nothing nor anyone, can make a black suit, white button up and red tie as revered and respected as Agent 47 does. His black well fitted gloves can wield any weapon with unbelievable skill. His melee assault expertise is second to none. Even from a hammer, to an axe, a wrench, kitchen knife -- 47 is just as lethal with said weapon as he is with a preferred firearm.

Examples:

Perfect accuracy and kill with a knife throw. Notice how he does this so fluidly and easily.
Perfect accuracy and kill with a knife throw. Notice how he does this so fluidly and easily.
A large cumbersome axe. Same result with pin point accuracy.
A large cumbersome axe. Same result with pin point accuracy.

Anything is lethal in the motivated hands of Agent 47.

Initial Thoughts

Well, not much for this section. As I know next to nothing about your girl. She's cute though. However, having basic knowledge of the opponent will assist 47 very well in this scenario. Using his born given abilities such as his sensing, 47 will keep a watchful eye and ear while navigating the most likely populated streets and halls. Any and all tools can be used to expert ability in the hands of Agent 47. His own equipment will be inserted into this mission accordingly. The bystanders may play a pivotal role here as well.

So, with - holding alot here; I'll wait for your opener to get more of an idea of what I'm dealing with. Look forward to learning more about Jill.

Until then, good luck

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#13 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

I really like this match-up

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#16 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@morleericks: won't get to this for maybe a week. Work and holidays are a killer

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#17 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Edited by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Agent 47 gets composite feats?

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#19 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio

@all-father: Yes

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#20 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@morleericks:

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Initial Thoughts

Well, not much for this section. As I know next to nothing about your girl. She's cute though. However, having basic knowledge of the opponent will assist 47 very well in this scenario. Using his born given abilities such as his sensing, 47 will keep a watchful eye and ear while navigating the most likely populated streets and halls. Any and all tools can be used to expert ability in the hands of Agent 47. His own equipment will be inserted into this mission accordingly. The bystanders may play a pivotal role here as well.

I dont see a stealth thing being a big deal here. Jill has lived several games walking the edge of traps, and monsters design to ambush you. Never getting caught up. Survive hellish warzones of super human threats even. stealth is not a factor here IMO.

So, with - holding alot here; I'll wait for your opener to get more of an idea of what I'm dealing with. Look forward to learning more about Jill.

Most of Jill you need to know is there. Her baseline. not including feats of the P30 Drug which I will add last post if needed. From feats in post one, I feel Jill is vastly superior phyeically in durability and strength and agility. Her speed is more than comparable at baseline.

So from here I will tough on her skill. Skill i a major factor, and while hitman is very skilled, I feel Jill is way more skilled.

Skill

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Jill is stated to be the only female for S.T.A.R.S. Alpha Team. S.T.A.R.S. is a stated elite group, and are on par with Special Forces of the military. To be in S.T.A.R.S. is to be hand pick by Umbrella from the best of the best.

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Jill is also the only one with experience and training with U. S. Army Delta Force. Jill is an expert in bomb disposal as well.

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Jill is commented on being dexterous, and skilled in the fields of lock picking, explosive ordnance disposal, and excels in situations that need a quick analysis. Jill is also stated that her shooting skills are exceptional.

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Jill is commented on by Carlos, one of Umbrella's best mercenary's, to having some moves on her. he then states that she is pretty elite as a member of S.T.A.R.S.

Some direct statements of the training and high end skill Jill has. Now lets show of specific moves and martial arts Jill is shown.

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Jill shows knowledge in the Double Kick to separate attack zombies from allies.

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Jill is a expert in the use of the Roundhouse Kick and Reverse Roundhouse Kick.

These are basic martial art moves that many people train in. These next few moves show off a exotic knowledge and unique style of martial arts that is complex and effective thanks to her agility.

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Jill uses agility and skill to Double Knee foes, and back flip off them.

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Jill shows adept skill in the Cartwheel Kick.

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Jill shows expertise in the flashy Flip Kick.

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Jill shows enough skill to break a zombies neck with just her thighs.

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Jill shows the skill and agility to jump on foes, break their necks with her thighs, and roll away.

These martial art moves are not limited to hand to hand as her combat knife and taser is utilize often.

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Jill shows skill in the handling of a Knife, killing a Crimson Head zombie in two moves.

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Jill shows skill in fighting underwater, and using her knife.

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Jill uses her tools in the form of the taser to easily counter attacking zombies.

Lastly we have feats of how she would likely disarm Agent 47 of his guns or close combat weapons. Jill has shown advance knowledge in grappling and CQC like combat.

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Jill easily counters in two moves a choke hold.

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Jill easily disarms one of S.T.A.R.S. best soldiers, Barry, and takes his gun in the process.

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Jill is able to slide out from being pinned by Chris, and counter attack him in the process.

If all this skill is not enough, then we see she has the skill to deal with Chris Redfield and Sheeva at the same time in a two on one. Both the protagonist using hand guns while Jill has no weapons.

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Jill gets among Chris and Sheva faster than they could react, and then takes them both in close combat with ease till her mask got shot off. Jill is on P30, but this is still her skill knowledge being applied.

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Jill again blitzes the duo, using extremely flashy moves. Even getting Chris in a arm hold that he could not break from. Jill is on P30, but this is still her skill knowledge being applied.

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Jill then takes out Sheva in few moves, and again takes down Chris in a flashy take down, ending the fight with Chris in another arm hold. Jill is on P30, but this is still her skill knowledge being applied.

While these feats are Jill on the drug P30, P30 is being used here. Now with all this said, jill is not just hand to hand skill wise. She also shown incredible range skill with weapons.

Accuracy

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Jill is able to dual wield pistols, and score head shots. A hard task for any real life person on earth to do with dual pistols.

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Jill easily on target with few round burst from her assault rifle, and head shots a Plaga soldier from a good distance.

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Jill shoots out the ramps restraints from a decent distance.

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Jill is able to accurately shoot Wesker's position without hitting Chris in close combat with Wesker. Each bullet on target before Wesker blurs away. Forcing Wesker to back off and evade being hit for several shots straight.

Honestly her accuracy is as good as Hitman's own. She is able to make near impossible shots for real world humans. but more important is able to keep someone like Wesker on his toes with gun fire. Range is not much a factor as the fight will end up close combat and Jill better stats and very well documented skill will win out easy.

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#23 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

I dont see a stealth thing being a big deal here. Jill has lived several games walking the edge of traps, and monsters design to ambush you. Never getting caught up. Survive hellish warzones of super human threats even. stealth is not a factor here IMO

I'm not so much relying on stealth (well I kind of am, but not so much "hiding" from you, as I am disappearing in plain sight, as 47 will be taking up the appearance and tendencies of a normal everyday civilian amid this showdown.

I agree that Jill has likely seen dozens upon dozens of meticulously placed traps when on missions. When your primary objectives consists of constant virus riddled creatures, I'd expect as such from someone as experienced as Valentine. The reason this scenario is far different is that there is no monsters stalking her in this populated city. There is no objective requested to her here other than to survive an unknown assassin. She has Basic Knowledge of the situation, of course. But so does 47.

He could be the homeless guy on the corner, the guy selling hot dogs out of a heated cart, a window washer suspending from buildings; there's no way Jill will know where he is coming from or what he would look like when under disguise.

To fully understand how serious 47 takes his missions and how far he is willing to go, look no further.

A couple examples:

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  • Agent 47 conceals his identity under the guise of a military member. A marine while during a mission.
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  • Agent 47 shows his masterful blending ability once again while chasing a fleeing a high risk target that just escaped an assassination attempt and is escaping with numerous armed guards.
  • 47 is able to not only track them down, but neutralize the target and end the lives of those hired to protect him.

----------

Seen here -

(Long story short. The contract you're assigned is to eliminate both rockstar Jordan Cross and his manager, Ken Morgan. You are required to use your vast array of deadly skills throughout a Chinese based hotel, find the transferred drummer, kill or subdue said drummer, steal his attire and perform a little diddy...yes I said diddy, for Cross in order for him to take you serious. feel free to look up the walk-through assuming you haven't played it already.

You can over hear conversation during your stay by both hotel employees and traveling guests that reference the musicians Jordan Cross and Abel del Silva (drummer). Obviously, being a high profile celebrity, Cross is not without a large entourage and excessive security. An entire floor is blocked off for his stay.)

The sheer skill and patience it requires to pull off a contract such as this is extraordinary.

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Why do you think this is going to be a direct fight? Like it's a cage match. Outside issues do exist here. Including many, many people/bystanders. Places and narrow corridors to infiltrate. As I said before, Valentine will be insanely lucky if he even sees me coming.

I feel Jill is vastly superior phyeically in durability and strength and agility.

  • I don't see why she'd be physically superior to 47 simply because she kicked a few preoccupied creature a few feet away. I will say they are very, very close in that respect. If Jill is superior, it isn't by much.
  • Durability, I give that to 47. I don't see her surviving a fall from a subway gate and onto the train below before dropping forcefully to the tracks below. If she did survive, it would certainly hinder her a great deal. And far too much for her to deal with John Smith immediately after getting to her feet like 47 does.
  • To further illustrate both of these points, here is a fight against Sanchez:

"An orphan from Mexico, Sanchez is a colossal person who rarely speaks. It is revealed through Dr. Warren Ashford's log that Sanchez was part of an experiment he carried out at Dexter Industries in 1986, when Sanchez, a child at the time, was used as a guinea pig for the experimental X-9 serum, which was designed to turn humans into "super soldiers". While the serum almost doubled his muscle capacity, a hormonal imbalance soon caused him to develop gigantism. At the time of Absolution, he is an incredible 7' 6", and weighs 440 lbs. Ashford suggests that Sanchez be confined to Dexter Industries until his growth can be controlled. It's unknown if that was ever successful, but Sanchez eventually got a job at Blake Dexter's side as his bodyguard/enforcer."

Sanchez is a monster himself and we see how 47 handled him. Physically, 47 surpasses Valentine imo.

Jill is stated to be the only female for S.T.A.R.S. Alpha Team. S.T.A.R.S. is a stated elite group, and are on par with Special Forces of the military. To be in S.T.A.R.S. is to be hand pick by Umbrella from the best of the best

47 has been confronted by, and successfully infiltrated the White House filled with secret service agents and terminated targets located on many military bases and/or heavily populated militia grounds. It is impressive for Jill to have received the above accolades but it isn't anything -- at least special forces -- that 47 hasn't seen before.

Jill is also the only one with experience and training with U. S. Army Delta Force. Jill is an expert in bomb disposal as well.

Luckily, for both of us, she won't have to worry about that here.

These are basic martial art moves that many people train in. These next few moves show off a exotic knowledge and unique style of martial arts that is complex and effective thanks to her agility

This is cool and all; pretty martial arts form during the altercations you shared. However, I'm confused as to why this situation calls for a H2H fight. Valentine may be a little more skilled but 47 is much faster. (He went up against John Smith in H2H and outdueled him for most of it)

My main point is that with the way 47 operates and the location provided, there is no way this confrontation reaches a fist fight. You'll be shot or dispatched via mine expertly placed to the proverbial sewer grate as she walks by. Maybe not exactly that, but you get my point.

Lastly we have feats of how she would likely disarm Agent 47 of his guns or close combat weapons. Jill has shown advance knowledge in grappling and CQC like combat.

I have faith in 47 in this department but I truly believe it won't get to this stage. It'll be long over before we meet face to face.

Honestly her accuracy is as good as Hitman's own.

I disagree here. I shared the Sniper feat that far surpasses your own of Valentine sniping the opposition in a straight line. She took almost just as much time as 47 did to prep his own shot before he fired and sent the bullet through the city and narrowly missing moving objects to reach the target.

She is able to make near impossible shots for real world humans. but more important is able to keep someone like Wesker on his toes with gun fire. Range is not much a factor as the fight will end up close combat and Jill better stats and very well documented skill will win out easy

1st off, No. The fight most likely won't end up close

2nd, "near impossible for real world humans", doesn't mean in the slightest that it is impossible for 47. An easily enhanced human with near perfect marksmanship; as I've already shared. There's not much to be desired in his tactical prowess. He is in a different league when it comes to firing a gun of any caliber.

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Special Sense

Let's touch on it once more.

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  • Here is an example of probably, 47's most useful ability -- Instinct. Using this, 47 is able to sense the surrounding area and understand the exact locations of his enemies/targets and where they are headed.
  • Even through solid objects and maze like and unknown territory, this Instinct ability lets 47 navigate his way through hostile locations without anyone in the vicinity noticing he is there. This will prove vital here.

We both have been afforded Basic Knowledge so we know, or have a decent idea, of who and what we are dealing with. Where the difference lies in this encounter, is that 47 can sense you coming before you arrive. Starting at opposite ends of the city means that you surely aren't sneaking up on anybody, especially 47.

47 will have already dressed out from head to toe in literally any uniform or clothing that he finds most inconspicuous. You'll know what you're looking for but won't know where to look. 47 will know who, where and when before Valentine realizes the "where and when".

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Conclusions

  • You may slightly surpass 47 in strength but all other physicals, while still close, are well in 47's favor. Especially Durability and Stealth.
  • Stealth will be a factor here and you have no viable way of overcoming it. Needing H2H to grab onto victory, 47 has too many ways to end you.
  • The distance gap and many, many civilians existing in this area offers nothing but nuisance and annoyances on your part, while it happens to aid 47 greatly in this scenario and eventual assassination.
  • As proven, 47 can pull off nearly any disguise to near perfection.
  • You likely won't even see 47 before he puts a bullet in your skull and/or "a freakish accident" occurs with shattered window glass shards impaling you from many stories up. Not literally, but making things look like an accident is something 47 gets paid a lot of money to do.
  • "Special Sense" is vital here and will be used accordingly.

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#24 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@morleericks:

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'm not so much relying on stealth (well I kind of am, but not so much "hiding" from you, as I am disappearing in plain sight, as 47 will be taking up the appearance and tendencies of a normal everyday civilian amid this showdown.

I agree that Jill has likely seen dozens upon dozens of meticulously placed traps when on missions. When your primary objectives consists of constant virus riddled creatures, I'd expect as such from someone as experienced as Valentine. The reason this scenario is far different is that there is no monsters stalking her in this populated city. There is no objective requested to her here other than to survive an unknown assassin. She has Basic Knowledge of the situation, of course. But so does 47.

Which is not much different. 47 trying to sneak attack someone use to sneak attack regardless of the situation is not going to end well IMO. Jill was design and train for anti terrorism. The very nature of her training is dealing with foes who hide among innocents.

Why do you think this is going to be a direct fight? Like it's a cage match. Outside issues do exist here. Including many, many people/bystanders. Places and narrow corridors to infiltrate. As I said before, Valentine will be insanely lucky if he even sees me coming.

Well thanks to the P30 drug, seeing you coming is not a real obstacle.

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P30 is a by product of the Progenitor Virus. Its stated to allow temporary super strength, faster reflexes, and total metal domination of the subject. However, it must be administer often or the body will purge the drug and lose all the effects. Jill had a device on her chest that help to constantly administer the drug.

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P30 again is stated to enhance the subjects strength, and speed of reflexes. Stated to be constantly administer on Jill by a device for complete subjection.

The drug enhances her reaction time considerably. 47 and the world will be like slow motion to her.

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P30 Jill flips over the bullets from Sheva.

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P30 Jill black flips through several bullets fired by Chris and Sheva. Evading them all.

Much like how she casually reacts to bullets at this stage to accurate gunmen like Shiva and Chris combine. Nearly Wesker level. .

  • I don't see why she'd be physically superior to 47 simply because she kicked a few preoccupied creature a few feet away. I will say they are very, very close in that respect. If Jill is superior, it isn't by much.
  • Durability, I give that to 47. I don't see her surviving a fall from a subway gate and onto the train below before dropping forcefully to the tracks below. If she did survive, it would certainly hinder her a great deal. And far too much for her to deal with John Smith immediately after getting to her feet like 47 does.
  • To further illustrate both of these points, here is a fight against Sanchez:

"An orphan from Mexico, Sanchez is a colossal person who rarely speaks. It is revealed through Dr. Warren Ashford's log that Sanchez was part of an experiment he carried out at Dexter Industries in 1986, when Sanchez, a child at the time, was used as a guinea pig for the experimental X-9 serum, which was designed to turn humans into "super soldiers". While the serum almost doubled his muscle capacity, a hormonal imbalance soon caused him to develop gigantism. At the time of Absolution, he is an incredible 7' 6", and weighs 440 lbs. Ashford suggests that Sanchez be confined to Dexter Industries until his growth can be controlled. It's unknown if that was ever successful, but Sanchez eventually got a job at Blake Dexter's side as his bodyguard/enforcer."

Sanchez is a monster himself and we see how 47 handled him. Physically, 47 surpasses Valentine imo.

I will let voters decide whats more impressive feat wise. she handily beats him in all areas from what I seen, and that is without the P30 drug. With it she wrecks especially in strength.

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P30 Jill kicks Sheva hard enough to fly a dozen feet, generating a small shock wave from the impact, and temporary putting Sheva down.

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P30 Jill uses her strength to launch herself at high speeds over several yards, with enough force to send few hundred pounds of Chris flying back.

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P30 Jill generates a small shock wave with the force of her strike.

47 has been confronted by, and successfully infiltrated the White House filled with secret service agents and terminated targets located on many military bases and/or heavily populated militia grounds. It is impressive for Jill to have received the above accolades but it isn't anything -- at least special forces -- that 47 hasn't seen before.

I never seen 47 take on the Special Forces of Special Forces that survive the impossible as Jill has. Not once.

This is cool and all; pretty martial arts form during the altercations you shared. However, I'm confused as to why this situation calls for a H2H fight. Valentine may be a little more skilled but 47 is much faster. (He went up against John Smith in H2H and outdueled him for most of it)

My main point is that with the way 47 operates and the location provided, there is no way this confrontation reaches a fist fight. You'll be shot or dispatched via mine expertly placed to the proverbial sewer grate as she walks by. Maybe not exactly that, but you get my point.

Im sorry, I dont see a reason to debate clearly inferior speed feats to what Jill has. Jill is stated super human on P30 and 47 is just human.

I disagree here. I shared the Sniper feat that far surpasses your own of Valentine sniping the opposition in a straight line. She took almost just as much time as 47 did to prep his own shot before he fired and sent the bullet through the city and narrowly missing moving objects to reach the target.

Considering Jill is putting on the backfoot targets with super human attributes with ease like Wesker outshines your sniper feat IMO.

1st off, No. The fight most likely won't end up close

Im sure Chris and Shiva thought the same before being blitz.

Conclusion

Little left to add. Were already retreading same arguments. Jill feats and track record of what she has faced and survived trump 47 overall. This battle will be close combat, given the innocents all around and Jill on the P30 drug, as well her own skill and background vs unseen threats. She will wreck hoise once in close combat. That is how I see this fight finishing as.

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#27 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: How many more posts do you want to do in this? One more after me, or are you finished?

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#28 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: How many more posts do you want to do in this? One more after me, or are you finished?

You can close. Im good.

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#29 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by deactivated-5ab47f6017f34 (3189 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it: @sirfizzwhizz:
It's funny. I just got back from watching the DBX battle of Jill Valentine vs Lara Croft. I'll vote later.

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#31 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13379 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by geekryan (4749 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good and interesting CaV! I'm a big fan of both series so it was cool to see how the main characters match up in a fight.

I'm honestly not too sure who presented better arguments since you were both very logical, efficient, and creative.

However, I'm going to have to give a very slight edge to @sirfizzzwhizzz. They portrayed Jill in a better way for this CaV and really highlighted all of her skills and advantages. Great job both of you :)

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#33 Edited by AllStarSuperman (43248 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta give it to Sir, he just showed that Jill is superior. Probably a better fight if she didn’t have access to the P30. From what was shown, I think it’s acceptable that Jill would be able to spot Agent 47.