CaV: Qrow Branwen (GilgameshThePimp) VS Samurai Jack (Shirso) - Voting Open!

Rules:

1. In-character, but serious and determined to win

2. Standard gear
3. Win by any means
4. Prime Jack, standard/current Qrow

@shirso Everything look good to you? Also do you want me to go first, i don't mind either way.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Thanks. Yeah you can go first.

Callouts:

t4v

Tag for every post.

T4V please.

T4V

T4V and after each post please

bump for votes

I’ll definitely read this, so tag.

I’ll try my best to vote too.

Qrow Branwen: The Bad Luck Charm

http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/Qrow_Branwen

Gear, Aura, Semblance and Magic:

Qrow's main tool of destruction is his trusty sword-scythe-gun hybrid, Harbinger, which as my description tells you, is a morphing weapon which has a Scythe, shotgun and long-sword form, allowing Qrow to change up formations mid-fight to suit the situation.

Alongside Qrow's natural talents for combat, he and all RWBY characters possess a power called Aura which the video above explains quite well.

Think of Aura as a shield which blocks attacks and regenerates minor wounds (to the point where minor wounds and bruises heal instantly until Aura breaks, and fatal wounds are flat-out impossible whilst protected).

Gallery

1. Lie Ren's Aura as a shield

2. Jaune Arc's Aura healing wounds.

These are inherent abilities to every character in RWBY that has Aura (basically everyone), and thus can be applied for Qrow, as well as all the opponents he faces bar fodder like Grimm or the mechs. Meaning if you want to take Qrow out, you've got to power through his Aura first.

Aura then leads into Qrow's Semblance, basically his X-Men style superpower. His variation of Semblance is bad luck, which once again is explained above, an passive power which brings misfortune to everyone around him, whether they be friend or foe, and whilst it barely has feats (I'll provide some if needed in future posts), the very fact that it exists gives Qrow an advantage over his opponents.

Qrow also possess some levels of magic (technically different from Semblances/Aura but functionally the same), allowing him to at any point transform into the bird he's named after, giving Qrow extra movement options.

Scaling/Other Characters/Fights:

Now admittedly Qrow only really has 2 fights to work with (those being against Winter and Tyrian, both linked here for full context), and whilst his does get more fights in Volume 5, those are... well let's call them very Volume 5 fights to put it nicely, so we are going to have to resort to quite a bit of scaling unfortunately, so with that in mind, I figured I'd put all of the feats for scaling here, as well as justify said scaling for future reference.

General Fodder:

Don't really think I need to say why Qrow scales off of fodder.

Gallery

1. Random, unnamed student block Pyyrha Nikos' decently close range bullets pretty easily
2. Fodder Grimm have shown to be bulletproof

Ruby Rose:

Being Ruby's uncle and teacher, it's only natural Qrow's above her.

Gallery

Ruby has shown to be fast enough to go FTE from Weiss' perspective and strong enough to create shock-waves.

Weiss Schnee:

Considering Winter's way ahead of Weiss, and Qrow was able to fight her whilst drunk, it should be valid, and anything Weiss can do, Winter should be able to do better given she's clearly on another level compared to Weiss.

Gallery

Weiss is fast enough to blitz an entire platoon of mechs, dodging through all of their bullets and destroying them before they even land on the ground. She's also strong enough to send shockwaves with a swordfish.

Yatsuhashi:

A general student shouldn't be a match for a trained Huntsman like Qrow, especially someone has minor as this guy is.

Yatsuhashi's strong enough to create this giant shockwave when colliding with Mercury Black.

Tyrian Callows:

Their fight sort of speaks for itself, the only reason Qrow got tagged by Tyrian at the end was due to protecting Ruby, he was 1v1ing him the whole time just fine otherwise.

Gallery

Tyrian's fast enough to effortlessly block sniper fire with his tail without even looking and smiling, effectively godstomp all of team RNJR (Ruby, Lie Ren, Nora and Jaune Arc) all at once until Qrow arrived to save them (none of the team even scratched Tyrian before Qrow arrived), toying with them in the process, a feat for either speed or skill depending on what you interpret it as (personally I can see it both ways but will likely refer to it as a skill feat more often than not). He's also strong enough to effortlessly block a Electricity amped Nora with his tail.

Nora Valkyrie:

If you can scale to Ruby, you can scale to other students clearly lower on the pedestal by both feats and in-universe logic. Also the further scaling from Tyrian.

Gallery

Nora's strong enough to launch Yang Xiao Long gods know how far into the air, about a minute in episode time. Yang can go H2H against Lie Ren as well.

Lie Ren:

Same as Nora.

Lie Ren has shown the ability to dodge sniper fire.

And that should do it for now, I'm aware this much scaling seems a bit excessive, but otherwise I'd only show about 2 or 3 feats and I wanted to show you what Qrow's truly capable of right from the get-go (plus some of the feats wouldn't make sense without some context behind them).

Feats:

Strength:

Gallery

1. Qrow cuts a Griffon Grimm clean in half, these same creatures could take a hit from Yatsuhashi and not be completely destroyed.
2. Qrow creates a crater with a single swing
3. A clash between Qrow and a blocking Tyrian makes a distance part of a building collapse

Speed:

Much like everyone in RWBY's world, Qrow's crazy quick on his feet.

Gallery

1. Whilst drunk, fights Winter at high speeds
2. In his duel with Tyrian, they move fast enough to where Ruby can't keep track of them

Conclusion:

I don't know enough about Jack to truly judge, but I like to think I've established how powerful Qrow is as a brawler, but to summarise:

1. Strength - Creates powerful shockwaves and can tangle with opponents who can no-sell at bare minimum 10 ton force hits
2. Speed - Low Hypersonic, considering the amount of bullet timing in RWBY and all the blitzing that comes with it will mean the mach numbers will be quickly stacked on top of each other.
3. Skill - Holds his own against Tyrian, which whilst this may be the first part I drop in your favour, I'm not sure if Jack's ever faced someone with luck manipulation before, so it should even out.

All in all, Qrow's a fearsome opponent, here's hoping Jack impresses.

@shirso: @faradaysloth: @chronicplane: @rac95: @deathhero61: It's up, I had some free time, so hope it's a good read.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Good post. I will have something up soon.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Damn you are quick! Nice start

Cool, take all the time you need.

This should be interesting.

bump for votes

Bio

Personality and Morals

Skill

Weird section to start with, but Jack's absurd fighting prowess is what sticks out most prominently in the series. He is leagues above anyone in his verse (and his is a futuristic dystopian crapsack world, chock full of mercenaries, assassins, magicians, demons, etc from all corners of the universe) barring possibly two (the Scotsman and the Guardian).

Let's see a few feats.

First of all, on paper, Jack has trained with every notable fighting style and ancient civilization.

Let's see how this translates into practice.

Jack singlehandedly kills the Daughters of Aku, who are highly trained superhuman assassins. And this is S5 Jack, who has lost his main weapon, his magic sword.

Jack vs Daughters of Aku Part 1

Jack vs Daughters of Aku Part 2

As you can see in the clips, Jack solos a group of 6 by himself, while near naked in a snowy terrain, so far from optimal conditions. And all the Daughters use different melee weapons with different fighting styles, so this is indeed a damn good skill showing.

As for how powerful one of the Daughters is, they are vastly superhuman themselves. Here we see one of the Daughters, Ashi, casually solo an army by herself.

One of Jack's best skill showings, when he kills killer robots while transformed into a chicken!

Chicken Jack arena fight.

Durability and Stamina

Jack has really solid durability across all sections, cutting, blunt and explosions.

Fine after a 700 ton sumo wrestler jumps on his head from a large height.

700 ton sumo body slam

No sells a massive metal robot falling on him. Ashi, one of the Daughters of Aku also tanks this, which really puts Jack soloing 6 of them without his sword into a whole different perspective.

Crushed by metal robot.

For cutting, we have his fight against the Minions of Set where he tanks numerous attacks from their enchanted blades.

Jack vs Minions.

This is impressive because one slash from the Minions' weapons can cut a stone pillar to pieces (that's at 2:07 in the previous clip).

For explosions, here he tanks being in a hut that gets blown apart by multiple missiles.

Tanking missiles.

Jack has immense stamina as well, he has fought for an entire day uninterrupted on two occasions, one against the Scotsman, and one against Mad Jack.

Strength

Jack is extremely strong physically as well, probably well over 50 tons.

Fights and beats a small building sized monster with an equally large sword.

This was actually a legendary warrior cursed by Aku, so he is no fodder. As you can see Jack easily blocks and parries numerous attacks from this monster.

Fights evenly with Aku, even though he doesn't have his own sword and using some fodder weapon he has picked up.

For reference, in the same fight, Aku was shown to be able to cleave through a stone crypt with one strike.

Jack's clash with Mad Jack (an evil counterpart of Jack, his equal in every way) creates a huge impact, that almost uproots numerous trees.

Speed

Jack is a very very casual bullet timer first of all.

Casually deflects machinegun fire with his sword.

Can go FTE in combat.

One of his most famous feats, casually stomps a group of the world's most notorious bounty hunters in the time it takes for a water drop to hit the ground, AKA the famous Water Drop feat.

Water Drop scene

As you can see, he does some pretty intricate counters and moves, in other words has a full fight with a group of opponents, in what is a fraction of a second. This is some beastly combat speed.

Initial Thoughts

First thing first, I don't see any cutting durability feats for Qrow, so Jack's one shotting if he connects.

Jack on the other hand, does have cutting resistance feats, being able to tank strikes that cut through stone like butter, so Qrow will be hard pressed to put him down.

Jack's explosion durability is solid as well, to deal with Qrow's gun attacks.

Jack seems to be waaay more skilled so far. I have shown instances of him taking on and beating multiple skilled superhuman opponents easily. And soloing the Daughters of Aku while lacking his sword is a skill feat >>> anything I have seen from Qrow so far.

Speed seems to be more or less equal. They are both casual bullet timers and can fight at FTE speeds. However, I have yet to see something from Qrow that rivals Jack's water drop feat, having an entire fight with multiple skilled opponents in a fraction of a second.

Another thing I would like to mention is that Qrow's weapon might very well get cut apart if he parries too much. Jack's sword is virtually indestructible, and as I have shown, can cut through metal like butter.

Qrow's aura defenses might be an issue, but have they ever tanked blows from someone as strong as Jack?

In summary, I think Jack wins this pretty easily, due to much superior skill, a better weapon, and cutting durability, which I presume is Qrow's main means of offense.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: It's up. Your turn.

@shirso: Cool, I'll try to get me counter up relatively soon.

oh this is good!

Nice

Counter Post: Wanderers Collide

Counters:

Skill:

Jack singlehandedly kills the Daughters of Aku, who are highly trained superhuman assassins. And this is S5 Jack, who has lost his main weapon, his magic sword. As you can see in the clips, Jack solos a group of 6 by himself, while near naked in a snowy terrain, so far from optimal conditions.

I go in more detail about this part of my case in a bit, but to say now that other students in RWBY are plenty skilled in their own right, and the feats both he and the students have should be enough to make it so that Qrow can hold his own in this regard, all whilst Qrow's semblance will throw Jack of his game via distractions (In this instance having busted up buildings have parts collapse on a teammate)or generally being something he's never dealt with before and something he can't control or predict.

And as for the fight you provided, honestly given the nature of how I see this fight going (that being of a pretty straight forward sword duel), it's a bit hard for me to really judge how this showing will be useful given the way Jack defeated all of those opponents, that being the heavy use of the environment in order for him to win, so if you'll permit me, allow me to go on a bit of a tangent and analyse this fight and break down as to why it's not as impressive as one might think for this case.

The first 2 daughters he killed are probably the most apparent with this, given how Jack used stealth and the element of surprise to take them down instead of outskilling them.

After which, whilst he certainly had an impressive scuffle with 4 opponents at once, it's pretty apparent that he was the one on the defensive, getting backed into a tree and forced to block attacks/jump out of the way rather than strictly staying on the offensive like Qrow did against Tyrian (or what Tyrian did to RNJR for that matter), in which he was constantly rushing him down and staying aggressive, thus putting him at an advantage. And when Jack did get an offensive strike in he was quickly punished for it, such as when he kicks one of the daughters to the right and is immediteadly tagged by a chain sickle afterwards.

This next GIF is probably pretty emblematic of what would've happened if Jack tried to pull a Tyrian, constantly getting cut up, forced to block every attack, and simply being overwhelmed. He only regained his composure after some breathing room and using his jumping ability and arena to his advantage, so no much through raw combat skill.

After this point, whilst Jack certainly holds his own against 3 of the daughters, not only is Jack now losing the numbers game compared to Tyrian, but he also completely failed in tagging any of them. You could argue that Jack couldn't tag them due to either the cold, not being in his prime or exhaustion, it says more than it should that Jack essentially resorted to blind flailing once things weren't going his way, which will happen when fighting Qrow given what I will establish later and already have.

And finally, whilst this last little bit does prove that admittedly Jack has better H2H than Qrow, it won't be a factor given how if either character is disarmed they lose just like that, this now just boils down to 3 1v1s where the enemies just run in at Jack, with only the first one really showing Jack's skill (and even still you could probably chuck that up to Jack having a large mobility advantage instead of fighting skill), with the second just being a Saitama style one punch win ,and the third is something not really applicable against Qrow given the weapon he uses and the arena.

So after that long, probably longer than necessary detour, I hope I've shown why I don't see this as impressive as you make it out to be in terms of raw skill, and make it something that both Tyrian and Qrow have replicated, but transformed into something more befitting a clash of blades like this. You could probably say this makes Jack a lot more adaptable than Qrow, but honestly I can't see that being a factor given the simplistic nature of our characters (not really much to adapt to).

And all the Daughters use different melee weapons with different fighting styles, so this is indeed a damn good skill showing.

Tyrian being able to easily mop up RNJR shows that Qrow can fight opponents who can fight groups with talents just as varied as those weapons, and the team had far more tricks up their sleeves than just different weapons/styles, between amps, multitude of elemental bullets, Semblances etc.

As for how powerful one of the Daughters is, they are vastly superhuman themselves. Here we see one of the Daughters, Ashi, casually solo an army by herself.

Other Students and Huntsman have also slaughtered waves of enemies by themselves with just as little effort. Ruby here for example slaughter a bunch of Grimm is a good example, and whilst one could easily point that to just being a speedblitz (I disagree with this notion based on how Ruby was still able to manoeuvre around just fine and precisely chop up all of the beasts, not to mention the recoil from the gun was doing all the actual travelling, not Ruby herself until she truly started slicing and dicing), there are other examples such as another student named Pyrrha Nikos' 1v4 against team CRDL (the team with the aforementioned fodder bullet timing) which show that students below Qrow are plenty skilled in their own right.

And even beyond that, maybe it's just the animation of Ashi, for lacking of a better word, 'pushing' her enemies to death, but between that, how she generally just overpowered those mooks based on what we do see, and that amount of blood on her by the end, that seems like she moreso just overpowered the army, which in of itself is quite formidable, but as a skill feat makes it far less impressive.

One of Jack's best skill showings, when he kills killer robots while transformed into a chicken!

Honestly based solely on the video you provided, Jack didn't really use his skill to defeat those animals, rather-so his intelligence of using that earthworms blood(?) against those rat-dog-mech things, which is a different thing and isn't really comparable at a direct level. Even still, without a sword this would most likely fall under H2H skill if anything.

Durability:

Gonna skip past all of the non-piercing durability feats as they won't be relevant against a scythes/swordsman like Qrow.

For cutting, we have his fight against the Minions of Set where he tanks numerous attacks fro their enchanted blades. Jack vs Minions. This is impressive because one slash from the Minions' weapons can cut a stone pillar to pieces (that's at 2:07 in the previous clip).

Pretty safe to say that Qrow hits way harder than this, and if this is Jack's best piercing durability feat then he's going to get torn apart rather quickly, especially against an already serious Qrow.

Strength:

Jack is extremely strong physically as well, probably well over 50 tons. Fights and beats a small building sized monster with an equally large sword.This was actually a legendary warrior cursed by Aku, so he is no fodder. As you can see Jack easily blocks and parries numerous attacks from this monster.

Even without their primary weapons RWBY characters have destroyed creatures of similar size.

Ruby in particular has damaged and knocked back this Grimm the size of a small building with nothing but the equivalent of a pocket knife compared to her standard scythe sniper, which should paint a good picture of both Qrow, and by extension Tyrian's (who was effortlessly swatting Ruby away even with her Crescent Rose) power.

Fights evenly with Aku, even though he doesn't have his own sword and using some fodder weapon he has picked up.For reference, in the same fight, Aku was shown to be able to cleave through a stone crypt with one strike.

Qrow's shockwaves should be enough to show that Qrow can do better than this feat. Not to mention Yatsuhashi covered way more ground and had an overall more destructive impact than this feat.

Jack's clash with Mad Jack (an evil counterpart of Jack, his equal in every way) creates a huge impact, that almost uproots numerous trees.

Certainly impressive, but I'd still call Qrow's shockwave better. For one, the feat you showed was a shared feat between Jack and Mad Jack, thus it isn't something he'd manage through the force of his own might, compared to Qrow's feat where all Tyrian did was block, without really adding any extra force or momentum to the attack. It's also worth noting that I'd argue Qrow's shockwave covered a much larger AOE than the Jacks did, given how the trees in your post where at least not that much further away than the building Qrow was nearby (If you compare them directly they cover pretty similar ground), closing the gap between the feats even more.

Gallery

Speed:

Casually deflects machinegun fire with his sword.Can go FTE in combat.

Not all that impressive by Qrow's standards, as characters weaker than Qrow have performed similar feats.

Someone I didn't mention in the scaling of my opener, Blake Belladonna (a member of Ruby's main team and is without question the weakest of the group), has actually performed a very similar feat, only in her case it was 2 miniguns from a mech at basically point blank range, so even with this i'd argue it's superior to that feat, and Qrow's way ahead of Blake.

One of his most famous feats, casually stomps a group of the world's most notorious bounty hunters in the time it takes for a water drop to hit the ground, AKA the famous Water Drop feat. As you can see, he does some pretty intricate counters and moves, in other words has a full fight with a group of opponents, in what is a fraction of a second. This is some beastly combat speed.

Certainly very impressive, but based on what I've presented for Qrow I still feel that he holds his own compared to this simply based on sheer amount of bullet timing scaling that'd go around. To break it down here's the totem pole, so to speak, mostly by feats but also in universe logic.

Cardin/Fodder>>Blake>Weiss>Ruby>>Tyrian=>Qrow.

Fastest at the right, slowest at left

I've provided feats for everyone accordingly in previous posts to support my claims here, but even assuming Cardin/Fodder was about Mach 2 given the pretty small distance between them and Pyrrha, that'd alone put Qrow at around mach 5-7, and this is excluding people like Roman Torchwick who would make the gap between Qrow and Cardin even larger, and therefore make the former even more impressive. I get that this may just seem like overstating/wanking bullet timing, but it really can't be overstated just how fast even the fodder in RWBY is, and how fast that makes Qrow by extension. So yeah, from what I can tell, Jack is fast, but not fast enough to where Qrow can't keep up.

Initial Thoughts:

First thing first, I don't see any cutting durability feats for Qrow, so Jack's one shotting if he connects. Jack on the other hand, does have cutting resistance feats, being able to tank strikes that cut through stone like butter, so Qrow will be hard pressed to put him down.

Jack's piercing durability isn't enough to keep up with Qrow's strength.

Especially considering that even a drunk Qrow without scaling has cut through steel without a hint of effort, which is naturally far more impressive than stone. So honestly I could say Qrow could one-shot Jack all things considered.

Jack's explosion durability is solid as well, to deal with Qrow's gun attacks.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the idea that Qrow's guns were explosive based, cause like most other guns it uses piercing damage?

Jack seems to be waaay more skilled so far. I have shown instances of him taking on and beating multiple skilled superhuman opponents easily. And soloing the Daughters of Aku while lacking his sword is a skill feat >>> anything I have seen from Qrow so far.

Already been established that based on what you've shown, I say Qrow can hold his own, and even outskill Jack thanks to his duel with Tyrian.

Speed seems to be more or less equal. They are both casual bullet timers and can fight at FTE speeds. However, I have yet to see something from Qrow that rivals Jack's water drop feat, having an entire fight with multiple skilled opponents in a fraction of a second.

Whilst I like to think i've shown that Qrow is leaps and bounds simply being FTE and Casual bullet timing, I'd like to see where you put the raindrop feat so I can truly judge wether or not Qrow can outpace or not.

Another thing I would like to mention is that Qrow's weapon might very well get cut apart if he parries too much. Jack's sword is virtually indestructible, and as I have shown, can cut through metal like butter.

It's pretty clear that in RWBY, weapons aren't exactly made of your average steel, and given Qrow's swings this thing around with superior striking strength, I can't see Harbinger shattering mid-fight, especially since it's never been shown to be even damaged.

Qrow's aura defenses might be an issue, but have they ever tanked blows from someone as strong as Jack?

Well in terms of raw strength, I'd say an electric amped Nora is ore than strong enough given the feats I provided for her in base form, and clashing with Tyrian's tailing shows he can block an attack of that magnitude.

In summary, I think Jack wins this pretty easily, due to much superior skill, a better weapon, and cutting durability, which I presume is Qrow's main means of offense.

Skill doesn't seem to impressive to me right now, Better weapon is balanced out by Qrow's superior strength and Harbingers versatility, and his piercing resistance isn't enough to save him.

New Conclusion:

• Strength - Qrow still holds the strength advantage here between scaling and feats.
• Durability - Hardly going to be a factor tbh, but Qrow wins via scaling off of other characters and Aura
• Speed - Closet factor, and definitely the most important given the nature of our characters, but as close as this seemingly is, I'd still give it to Qrow based of who he scales to. For you to win this, I'd like to see where you place the raindrop feat.
• Skill - Based on what you've shown me, Qrow wins this, all Jack seemingly has is formal training and the fights presented didn't really change my mind given their nature.

Counter post is up.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Good post. This is challenging.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Damn you're fast

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: I had my doubts, but after reading (which I enjoyed), you're doing qrow justice. My hats off to you good sir.

Tag after each post.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Counters:Skill

I go in more detail about this part of my case in a bit, but to say now that other students in RWBY are plenty skilled in their own right, and the feats both he and the students have should be enough to make it so that Qrow can hold his own in this regard, all whilst Qrow's semblance will throw Jack of his game via distractions (In this instance having busted up buildings have parts collapse on a teammate)or generally being something he's never dealt with before and something he can't control or predict.

What skill feats do the RWBY students have that are comparable to Jack's? I will be providing more skill feats for Jack but has anybody in team RNJR fought 6 trained and vastly superhuman assassins solo, while SEVERELY handicapped (yes, Jack vs the Daughters is far more impressive than you give credit for, which I will go into in a moment).

The semblance thing seems to be far too random to make a reasonable estimate of its impact on the fight. From the Tyrian fight, it seems to me that its not in Qrow's control, and has limited combat application for that matter. After all, it didn't help him in anyway against Tyrian. In any case,a few beams collapsing here and there wouldn't really bother Jack.

And as for the fight you provided, honestly given the nature of how I see this fight going (that being of a pretty straight forward sword duel), it's a bit hard for me to really judge how this showing will be useful given the way Jack defeated all of those opponents,

I agree with some of your points, mainly that he utilized stealth to take out the first two and the last part of the fight involved them coming at him one by one (though Jack fought them on a narrow branch, and completely barehanded, with very less room for error and maneuvaribility, that's impressive in its own way).

But what I do have an issue with, is this:

After which, whilst he certainly had an impressive scuffle with 4 opponents at once, it's pretty apparent that he was the one on the defensive, getting backed into a tree and forced to block attacks/jump out of the way

Not really, I will link the gif you very kindly made.

I honestly don't see how you reached the conclusion that Jack was on the defensive in this exchange. And since you took the pains to make a gif, you have obviously seen the fight in full.

He actively engages all 4 in an intense, close quarters bout, doesn't get tagged once, in fact is able to disarm multiple of them mid fight , knees one of them in the chest, and the clip ends with him killing one of the Daughters with a knife throw to the chest.

And keep in mind the following things:

• Jack is at a ridiculous gear disadvantage. I mean all had at the start was a makeshift wooden spear which promptly got split in half.
• He is stark naked in a snowy terrain.
• There's some context to this fight. Jack had faced the Daughters once before this, and that fight ends with Jack killing one of the daughters, but also getting stabbed in the gut. Then he jumps into a river, and flows downstream while the daughters try to track him. He spends a few days in between in a cold cave, just getting by hunting some animals. This is a Jack who spent days exposed to the cold, with a serious wound and probably starved before he fought the Daughters for the second time. In other words, this is a Jack far from his 100% physically.

There's no tricks here, the Daughters are in the same physical tier as Jack, had FAR better weapons and the numbers advantage, yet a cold exposed, malnourished, weapon less Jack was still too much for them. You will be hard pressed to find a more pure fight skill showing than this.

rather than strictly staying on the offensive like Qrow did against Tyrian (or what Tyrian did to RNJR for that matter), in which he was constantly rushing him down and staying aggressive, thus putting him at an advantage.

Considering how well Jack did without his usual weapon (the magic sword) and being far from 100% physically, I bet he would lolstomp the Daughters if he actually had his standard weapon and at his peak.

And Qrow was hardly strictly on the offensive against Tyrian. Tyrian could even disarm Qrow once during the fight.

As for Tyrian vs RNJR, yeah you could say he was keeping them on the defensive, but look at Tyrian's gear also. He has great range with his tail, and those gauntlets, while Jack was fighting pretty much unarmed.

And when Jack did get an offensive strike in he was quickly punished for it, such as when he kicks one of the daughters to the right and is immediteadly tagged by a chain sickle afterwards.

Thanks for making the gif again.

Dude, he is literally blocking multiple hits from 3 different opponents with 3 different weapons, a chain sickle, a battle axe and a pair of shortswords, with only a club and just getting surface scratches in the process. Give Jack his usual sword and the Daughter's wouldn't have touched him.

This next GIF is probably pretty emblematic of what would've happened if Jack tried to pull a Tyrian, constantly getting cut up, forced to block every attack, and simply being overwhelmed. He only regained his composure after some breathing room and using his jumping ability and arena to his advantage, so no much through raw combat skill.

Yeah, this is probably the most cornered Jack was in this entire exchange but I have given enough arguments as to why momentary lapses like this can be excused (he was far from 100% physically, lacked a proper weapon, fighting stark naked in the cold, and still beat 6 of the Daughters solo, fair and square).

Tyrian being able to easily mop up RNJR shows that Qrow can fight opponents who can fight groups with talents just as varied as those weapons, and the team had far more tricks up their sleeves than just different weapons/styles, between amps, multitude of elemental bullets, Semblances etc.

Tyrian didn't "mop" up RNJR, he was keeping them on the defensive, but no more. Ruby parried a few of his blows and all the members dodged his strikes. Also Tyrian clearly has superior physicals to RNJR and comparable, if not outright superior gear (I mean his tail alone was a pretty big advantage), while Jack is not superior physically to the Daughters (at least not by much) and was at a gear disadvantage.

I also didn't see RNJR utilize much tricks or versatility against Tyrian, it was a simple clash of blades for the most part, where Tyrian came off better due to his gear and superior physicals, not terribly to do with skill tbh.

Other Students and Huntsman have also slaughtered waves of enemies by themselves with just as little effort. Ruby here for example slaughter a bunch of Grimm is a good example, and whilst one could easily point that to just being a speedblitz (I disagree with this notion based on how Ruby was still able to manoeuvre around just fine and precisely chop up all of the beasts, not to mention the recoil from the gun was doing all the actual travelling, not Ruby herself until she truly started slicing and dicing), there are other examples such as another student named Pyrrha Nikos' 1v4 against team CRDL (the team with the aforementioned fodder bullet timing) which show that students below Qrow are plenty skilled in their own right.

Okay, Ruby's feat was like 90% her weapon more than anything. You even say the recoil from the gun was why she could move around so fast. The rest is what, cutting through hordes of fodder with her ultra awesome scythe? I mean, did any of those wolves react and counter Ruby's attacks mid blitz? No, right. Any street leveller with experience using Ruby's weapon can potentially replicate that feat. It's easy to cut down hordes of fodder when you have a scythe bigger than an adult human. At best this shows Ruby's reaction speed. Raw fighting skill? Not so much.

As for the Pyrrha Nikos, fight, let me first link the video.

Not a bad fight at all, but as you can see, there are really very few instances where all 4 opponents use teamwork to try and pressurize her, most of the bout she engages them 1v1. Not to mention she has pretty powerful gear.

Jack fought 4 armed opponents, who were engaging him simultaneously, with nothing but his bare hands.

And even beyond that, maybe it's just the animation of Ashi, for lacking of a better word, 'pushing' her enemies to death, but between that, how she generally just overpowered those mooks based on what we do see, and that amount of blood on her by the end, that seems like she moreso just overpowered the army, which in of itself is quite formidable, but as a skill feat makes it far less impressive.

The first part she does overpower them when she pushes them off the cliff, but then she quite literally jumps, unarmed, into the middle of a large army and slaughters all of them without getting tagged once, the blood you see at the end is her enemies' blood.

This is a way, way better showing of both skill and pure physicals than either Ruby or Purrha's fights.

Ok, now let me show you a few more skill feats for Jack.

First, the prelude to the final fight of Jack with the Daughters, when he fights them for the first time in a temple.

Jack vs Daughters Part 1

In this segment, Jack dodges strikes from multiple Daughters, in pitch dark, a great showing for both skill, speed and senses, then dodges every attack from another Daughter who is dual wielding blades and even manages to land a kick on her.

Jack vs Daughters Part 2

The Daughters keep on chasing him and here we see Jack's exceptional speed, skill agility and evasiveness. He blocks all their attacks with broken weapons he just picks up, and dodges all their strikes, even though all of them are attacking him simultaneously.

At the end of the clip, Jack, without any weapons, pretty much stomps one of the Daughters in a 1v1 setting. He easily disarms her sword and cuts her throat with her own weapon. Keep in mind the Daughters are physically roughly equal to Jack, so this is just skill.

Another good skill showing for Jack is when he fights Daemongo, a demon who has trapped the souls of the strongest fighters from history and can summon them at will.

Jack vs Daemongo 1

Jack vs Daemongo 2

In the first clip, Jack is temporarily disarmed of his sword, but still doesn't get tagged and uses friendly fire to take the warriors out.

In the second clip, Daemongo uses all his summons and sends a small army after Jack, but now that he has his sword, he stomps all of them easily.

I hope all this shows you how difficult it is to actually tag Jack, and how beastly his fight skill is.

Counters:Durability

Pretty safe to say that Qrow hits way harder than this, and if this is Jack's best piercing durability feat then he's going to get torn apart rather quickly, especially against an already serious Qrow.

What striking feats does Qrow have that is significantly above slicing a massive stone pillar to pieces in one hit?

What you have shown is this:

Yeah he cut steel, but he also jumped and built up quite a bit of momentum for it. Also the Minion of Set cut through a much larger and thicker stone pillar than that pole in the feat I showed in Jack's durability section.

Jack tanked like a dozen strikes from these Minions with only minor bruises. You need more than just cutting metal to prove Qrow can one shit Jack.

I have also shown Jack no selling missiles, which should be a great piercing feat itself due to tanking the shrapnel.

Counters:Strength

Ruby in particular has damaged and knocked back this Grimm the size of a small building with nothing but the equivalent of a pocket knife compared to her standard scythe sniper, which should paint a good picture of both Qrow, and by extension Tyrian's (who was effortlessly swatting Ruby away even with her Crescent Rose) power.

Ruby seems to use some sort of projectile weapon to knock back that giant bird, while the Tyrian fight was mostly melee. Not really applicable.

Jack on the other hand, matched a building sized monster in a sword fight, which means that was purely his physical strength and skill, nothing else.

Certainly impressive, but I'd still call Qrow's shockwave better. For one, the feat you showed was a shared feat between Jack and Mad Jack, thus it isn't something he'd manage through the force of his own might, compared to Qrow's feat where all Tyrian did was block, without really adding any extra force or momentum to the attack. It's also worth noting that I'd argue Qrow's shockwave covered a much larger AOE than the Jacks did, given how the trees in your post where at least not that much further away than the building Qrow was nearby (If you compare them directly they cover pretty similar ground), closing the gap between the feats even more.

I don't think this feat puts Qrow on a different league of strength compared to JAck, which is what you seem to be implying.

The clash between Jack and Mad Jack was vaping away the trees and actually set fire to a large portion of the forest. Another issue I have is that again, from your own gif, Qrow obviously built up a lot of momentum by spinning and what not into that strike, while Jack and Mad Jack's clash was a pretty standard one.

Qrow does a fancy spinning strike from above, he can't generate this much power normally.

Anyway Jack parrying strikes from a building sized monster should be comparable.

Counters:Speed

Not all that impressive by Qrow's standards, as characters weaker than Qrow have performed similar feats.

Ok, these are good feats, RWBY characters are just as good bullet timers as Jack.

Certainly very impressive, but based on what I've presented for Qrow I still feel that he holds his own compared to this simply based on sheer amount of bullet timing scaling that'd go around. To break it down here's the totem pole, so to speak, mostly by feats but also in universe logic.

Unfortunately I can't agree with this. Scaling off bullet timers is fine, but at the end of the day, bullet timing is mostly reactions and some combat speed if you are swatting away the bullets (like Jack did). Swatting away bullets, while still impressive, requires nowhere near the precision, skill or processing capabilities that would be tested in an actual fight.

Jack showed that he can have an entire fight (as in a proper fight, with counters and all, not just blitzing through fodder) against multiple non fodder opponents in a fraction of a second. That's a cut above bullet timing or simply scaling of bullet timers imho.

I've provided feats for everyone accordingly in previous posts to support my claims here, but even assuming Cardin/Fodder was about Mach 2 given the pretty small distance between them and Pyrrha, that'd alone put Qrow at around mach 5-7, and this is excluding people like Roman Torchwick who would make the gap between Qrow and Cardin even larger, and therefore make the former even more impressive. I get that this may just seem like overstating/wanking bullet timing, but it really can't be overstated just how fast even the fodder in RWBY is, and how fast that makes Qrow by extension. So yeah, from what I can tell, Jack is fast, but not fast enough to where Qrow can't keep up.

Ok so you have proved that RWBY characters are great bullet timers, so I will raise you a hand: namely missile timing.

Dodges rocket missiles from multiple directions at close range and deflects them with his sword.

And now I will provide one of the better, yet oft overlooked speed feats in the series.

First I will link the feat.

Only the first 45s is important.

So basically, a tank shell is fired at Jack and the Scotsman from close range, which they easily react to, and use to destroy their handcuffs.

Tank shells can reach hypersonic speeds, and this is a very futurisitc verse, also the recoil of the shell was so high, that it pushed the tank back a fair amount and crashed it into a building.

It's safe to say this is an easy hypersonic + speed feat for Jack and the Scotsman.

This is also a beastly durability feat, as they practically no sell the shell's explosion which translates to piercing durability since they tanked the shrapnel as well.

Jack can keep up with the Scotsman for an entire day.

So Jack easily has high hypersonic reactions and in fact probably has better combat speed than Qrow as he can have a entire, complex fight in a fraction of a second.

Qrow hasn't shown that he can take down multiple non fodder opponents and have an entire fight with them in such a ridiculously short duration.

Qrow's Aura Defenses

Now that I think about it, this honestly is a borderline non factor, as Jack's sword is magical and cut through intangible beings who can regenerate, like Aku for instance.

I can provide feats and justification for this if you want, but trust me, Jack's sword's magical properties would pretty much nullify Qrow's aura defenses.

Conclusion

Skill: I still put Jack's fights vs the Daughters alone over anything Qrow has done, simply because of the fact that Jack went in with massive handicaps and still solo'd a group of highly trained, better armed assassins who were his physical equals. Qrow on the other hand in fact got disarmed once against Tyrian.

Strength: Striking strength seems about equal I'd say and Jack probably has a slight edge given that Tyrian's best cutting feats involve him building some momentum into the blow.

Durability: Jack actually has solid cutting and piercing durability showings, and Qrow isn't putting him down easily.

Speed: Qrow has nothing except scaling to bullet timers, while Jack has solid bullet timing feats of his own and more. He has high hypersonic reactions and can have complex fights in a fraction of a second. Qrow hasn't shown that level of combat speed.

Stamina: Jack has two showings of fighting for an entire day without breaks, one against the Scotsman, the other against Mad Jack, both of whom were highly skilled and Jack's physical equals. I didn't see any stamina showings from Qrow so JAck stomps this category, and this is a very important factor in a pure melee and skill based fight like this.

Why Jack wins?

1. He has solid cutting and piercing resistance while I am yet to see Qrow tanking a cutting attack head on. Jack can one shot.
2. Jack's stamina ludicrously trumps Qrow. Qrow is gonna get worn out soon.
3. Jack has a definite skill advantage so far. He might very well disarm Qrow like Tyrian did.
4. Jack has shown better combat speed than Qrow, whose feats simply consist of keeping up with bullet timers.

Jack wins :)

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: 2nd post is up.

@shirso: Excellent, will get a post up relatively soon.

Counter II + Closer: Drunken Uncle vs Noble Samurai

Counters:

Skill:

What skill feats do the RWBY students have that are comparable to Jack's? I will be providing more skill feats for Jack but has anybody in team RNJR fought 6 trained and vastly superhuman assassins solo, while SEVERELY handicapped (yes, Jack vs the Daughters is far more impressive than you give credit for, which I will go into in a moment).

Whilst I'll admit that individually none of the students have had a full on handicap beyond the obvious numbers loss, to say they haven't fought super-humans in-mass before isn't new for them.

I've already bought up Pyrrha vs CRDL, but another student, Yang Xiao Long is worth mentioning due to her feat of utterly schooling an entire platoons worth of mooks without a hint of difficulty, and whilst on the surface seem like regular mcfodderfaces, given the nature of how Aura works, and that they got the attention of Roman Torchwick/The White Fang (stops at 9:06), to say they aren't at least slightly superhuman seems unlikely. Also worth mentioning that Yang is by far the least skilled of team RWBY if going by raw skill showings as well as general logic being the brute of the group, making this feat all the more impressive in comparison.

The semblance thing seems to be far too random to make a reasonable estimate of its impact on the fight. From the Tyrian fight, it seems to me that its not in Qrow's control, and has limited combat application for that matter. After all, it didn't help him in anyway against Tyrian. In any case, a few beams collapsing here and there wouldn't really bother Jack.

Well it's as I've said previously, whilst it doesn't have many feats, either way it still gives Qrow an inherent boost n his chances of victory, so saying it wouldn't be at least somewhat useful in, say, catching jack of guard and leaving him open for a strike, isn't entirely out of the question. But I'll admit it won't really be a deciding factor, just the cherry on top really.

(though Jack fought them on a narrow branch, and completely barehanded, with very less room for error and maneuvaribility, that's impressive in its own way).

Qrow's also been forced to replicate similar skill showings, being forced onto narrow, broken rooftops, where Tyrian's tail gave him a mobility, allowing Qrow to use the environment to his advantage, much like Jack has done. Not only does this show Qrow performing combat feats with arguably even less space to work with at times, giving him an equivalent to what you've said, but also ways that Qrow has manipulated his opponents with intelligence, again, similar to how Jack's done-so in the past.

He actively engages all 4 in an intense, close quarters bout, doesn't get tagged once, in fact is able to disarm multiple of them mid fight , knees one of them in the chest, and the clip ends with him killing one of the Daughters with a knife throw to the chest.

Doesn't get tagged once? Pardon my tone, but what? He got tagged multiple times.

I'll repost the GIF here for ease of accesses sake, but Jack clearly he gets hit at least twice. Not only can you see his arm getting tangled by the chain sickle, but shortly after he clearly gets tagged by the club, to the point where they have a clear view of Jack's reaction before getting to stab kill one of the daughters . To say Jack 'doesn't get tagged once' is flat out false, meanwhilst Tyrian was blocking or dodging every attack RNJR threw at him without exceptions.

Jack is at a ridiculous gear disadvantage. I mean all had at the start was a makeshift wooden spear which promptly got split in half.

And to flip that on it's head, Tyrian also technically had a gear disadvantage on both sheer numbers and versatility of weaponry, much like Jack, and whilst it wasn't as severe as Jack, it still stands that Tyrian was in a decently similar situation.

He is stark naked in a snowy terrain. There's some context to this fight. Jack had faced the Daughters once before this, and that fight ends with Jack killing one of the daughters, but also getting stabbed in the gut. Then he jumps into a river, and flows downstream while the daughters try to track him. He spends a few days in between in a cold cave, just getting by hunting some animals. This is a Jack who spent days exposed to the cold, with a serious wound and probably starved before he fought the Daughters for the second time. In other words, this is a Jack far from his 100% physically. There's no tricks here, the Daughters are in the same physical tier as Jack, had FAR better weapons and the numbers advantage, yet a cold exposed, malnourished, weapon less Jack was still too much for them. You will be hard pressed to find a more pure fight skill showing than this.

Fair enough, but I would argue that since Tyrian fought RNJR whilst they were in absolute peak condition, and even further beyond that in Nora's case after her lightning amp, so I'd argue that's impressive in it's own right.

Considering how well Jack did without his usual weapon (the magic sword) and being far from 100% physically, I bet he would lolstomp the Daughters if he actually had his standard weapon and at his peak.

And here in lies a rather concerning issue, in that despite Jack being a swordsman who seemingly prides himself on his skill, you showed very little actual swordsmanship skill feats (we'll get to them in a moment) All of these other feats can be labeled as either H2H or improvisation/intelligence skill, so creating an image of how good Jack actually is with his sword is quite difficult based on what you've presented.

And Qrow was hardly strictly on the offensive against Tyrian. Tyrian could even disarm Qrow once during the fight.

Tyrian was only able to disarm Qrow thanks to his tail and clearly catching Qrow off-guard as shown here, something Jack can't do nearly as easily thanks to obviously not having a giant scorpion tail.

As for Tyrian vs RNJR, yeah you could say he was keeping them on the defensive, but look at Tyrian's gear also. He has great range with his tail, and those gauntlets, while Jack was fighting pretty much unarmed.

Not only does this bring up H2H versus swordsmanship skill you haven't really split up, Tyrian's tail is at most not much bigger than the size as Qrow's Harbinger, so it didn't really give him that much of a reach advantage.

Dude, he is literally blocking multiple hits from 3 different opponents with 3 different weapons, a chain sickle, a battle axe and a pair of short-swords, with only a club and just getting surface scratches in the process.

Tyrian had to fight 4 opponents at once, each with different weapons (a scythe/sniper, twin pistols, sword/shield combo and a giant hammer) and didn't get touched once, so this point doesn't hold much water.

Give Jack his usual sword and the Daughter's wouldn't have touched him.

Again, shown later, but I don't think the swordsmanship feats you showed were enough.

Yeah, this is probably the most cornered Jack was in this entire exchange but I have given enough arguments as to why momentary lapses like this can be excused (he was far from 100% physically, lacked a proper weapon, fighting stark naked in the cold, and still beat 6 of the Daughters solo, fair and square).

Then I repeat my stance regarding RNJR+Qrow being in peak condition, and Tyrian was winning and holding hs own respectively against them even more fairly than Jack did here, given the lack of stealth or any neat tricks.

Tyrian didn't "mop" up RNJR, he was keeping them on the defensive, but no more. Ruby parried a few of his blows and all the members dodged his strikes.

Either way that's better than what Jack did, with the plus side of them never being able to even get a chance at landing a decent blow without Qrow's assistance. Point stands he was very casually taking them down, taking glee and hamming up his mannerisms as he did it.

Also Tyrian clearly has superior physicals to RNJR and comparable, if not outright superior gear (I mean his tail alone was a pretty big advantage), while Jack is not superior physically to the Daughters (at least not by much) and was at a gear disadvantage.

To an extent yeah, but there are multiple exchanges where it's clear that Tyrian wasn't winning via raw stats.

Gallery

These 2 exchanges in particular show off what I mean, these aren't really showings of pure stat dominance, as they clearly required moreso skill than raw brute force to weave between al the different attacks, making it seem that whilst Tyrian definitely had a physicals advantage, he certainly had to use a lot of skill has well to dispatch RNJ as quickly has he did..

I also didn't see RNJR utilize much tricks or versatility against Tyrian, it was a simple clash of blades for the most part, where Tyrian came off better due to his gear and superior physicals, not terribly to do with skill tbh.

The lightning amp they gave Nora, plus Ruby attempting to snipe Tyrian during his clash with Qrow, not to mention how Lie Ren swapped between firearms and H2H showed that they did use at last some of what they had to offer.

Okay, Ruby's feat was like 90% her weapon more than anything. You even say the recoil from the gun was why she could move around so fast. The rest is what, cutting through hordes of fodder with her ultra awesome scythe? I mean, did any of those wolves react and counter Ruby's attacks mid blitz? No, right. Any street leveller with experience using Ruby's weapon can potentially replicate that feat. It's easy to cut down hordes of fodder when you have a scythe bigger than an adult human. At best this shows Ruby's reaction speed. Raw fighting skill? Not so much.

To say their's no skill involved in this showing seems a bit misleading, keep in mind she was one-shotting basically all of those Grimm (and considering she was one-shotting the others, doesn't seem like she added that much more force into it), raw speed isn't enough to pull that off, let alone this casually.

Not a bad fight at all, but as you can see, there are really very few instances where all 4 opponents use teamwork to try and pressurise her, most of the bout she engages them 1v1.

Fair enough, but 2v1ing opponents multiple times should be enough to compensate, and when you consider yang and Tyrian into the equation, Qrow can still hold his own.

Not to mention she has pretty powerful gear.

Her gear wasn't that great, a simple sword and shield, and whilst you can certainly argue her magnetism Semblance certainly helped, which I won't deny, the fact that she was able to think of those ways to use her Semblance (considering she didn't just yoink their weapons out of there hands, rather used for other means i.e. using her shield as a platform) should show her levels of skill in of itself.

Jack fought 4 armed opponents, who were engaging him simultaneously, with nothing but his bare hands.

Like you said earlier, to say he was completely barehanded wouldn't exactly be correct consider he did get a least some level of weaponry, and I argue the goons ganging up on Yang were clearing more than 4 people at once, especially at certain points.

The first part she does overpower them when she pushes them off the cliff, but then she quite literally jumps, unarmed, into the middle of a large army and slaughters all of them without getting tagged once,

Both Ruby and Weiss have performed similar feats, and whilst yeah the numbers weren't as large as Ashi's, the thing is, based on what we see from this scene (since most of the fight happens off-screen), their weren't many true skill showings, most of it was Ashi just brute forcing it.

This little montage is one of the better, truly 'skilful' part of this scene that we really get to witness, and even still it's not even close to what people like Tyrian has done in terms of raw skill, given how it's clear that Ashi's raw physicals, in particular her strength, are doing most of the work.

the blood you see at the end is her enemies' blood.

The blood was exactly my concern with this, that she seemingly used mostly brute force to win this, if she was truly using purely skill, I doubt there'd be as much blood as that.

This is a way, way better showing of both skill and pure physicals than either Ruby or Pyrrha's fights.

Honestly even in our physicals this doesn't seem as good as what Ruby has performed, particularly in speed, though I'll admit having nothing to gauge from regarding the capabilities of those mooks doesn't help things.

In this segment, Jack dodges strikes from multiple Daughters, in pitch dark, a great showing for both skill, speed and senses, then dodges every attack from another Daughter who is dual wielding blades and even manages to land a kick on her.

Whilst seeing the daughters in the dark is certainly very impressive, not only will that not really be a factor here, but beyond the seemingly lack of exhaustion this honestly doesn't strike as much more impressive than the snowstorm feat, given the lower numbers and the dark not really affecting anything considering they could see just fine, and thus not really harming their fighting capabilities.

The Daughters keep on chasing him and here we see Jack's exceptional speed, skill agility and evasiveness. He blocks all their attacks with broken weapons he just picks up, and dodges all their strikes, even though all of them are attacking him simultaneously.

Keep in might that before the parts of Jack going into that free-for-all, most of the actual combat took place underwater, and whilst that is impressive in it's own right, given the nature of how Jack fought i.e. using the environment to assist his escape instead of just swimming his way through the opponents.

And regarding the big fight itself, whilst parts of it were certainly impressive, other parts felt like attacks Jack should've been easily blocked or avoided the way you present this feat.

This exchange in particular is eyebrow raising for me as despite presumably being able fend of four of these people at once without issue or even weapons, he's getting constantly tagged by only 1 or 2 individuals (they only really attack him as a full group a couple of times), but he also had a friggin sword on him, despite swords being his bread and butter. Call it CIS, low-end feats or whatever you wish, but I can't help comparing this and the free-for-all exchanges and not wonder which one is truly the most reliable.

At the end of the clip, Jack, without any weapons, pretty much stomps one of the Daughters in a 1v1 setting. He easily disarms her sword and cuts her throat with her own weapon. Keep in mind the Daughters are physically roughly equal to Jack, so this is just skill.

He did have a weapon, tho, he used the edge of the axe to block a bunch of attacks, and whilst it certainly wasn't anything like his trademark sword, it was certainly very useful to his win in this exchange, and by the time it broke, Jack basically already won the fight immediteadly after. So saying he had no weapon isn't really true, and it isn't even all that useful as a swordsmanship feat, as all he did was block and parry with it.

In the first clip, Jack is temporarily disarmed of his sword, but still doesn't get tagged and uses friendly fire to take the warriors out.

Certainly impressive, but much like a lot of these fights involving groups, jack clearly only makes it out the way he did do to improvisation and due to the opponents rarely going full group versus 1. And the on time they did in that clip is nothing Tyrian hasn't replicated.

This feat in particular of using Jaune's shield as a platform, spinning around Ren's gunfire and kicking back Ruby, is just as good if not better than jack's feat of when he was being grappled by the tiger guy,

In the second clip, Daemongo uses all his summons and sends a small army after Jack, but now that he has his sword, he stomps all of them easily.

Looking at how Jack actually fought those people behind the dust cloud, he wasn't really using pure skill to defeat those opponents, really all he was doing is flailing his sword around and beating them through raw force.

Durability:

What striking feats does Qrow have that is significantly above slicing a massive stone pillar to pieces in one hit?

ummm, the shockwave feat and everything else he scales off of thanks to the likes of Yatsuhashi, that feat was shown as a reference for Qrow being able to cut steel extremely casually, not so much his best feat.

What you have shown is this: Yeah he cut steel, but he also jumped and built up quite a bit of momentum for it. Also the Minion of Set cut through a much larger and thicker stone pillar than that pole in the feat I showed in Jack's durability section. Jack tanked like a dozen strikes from these Minions with only minor bruises. You need more than just cutting metal to prove Qrow can one shit Jack. I have also shown Jack no selling missiles, which should be a great piercing feat itself due to tanking the shrapnel.

Again, the shockwaves Qrow and Ruby that I have shown should show that at there best, they an easily overcome this, given how this verse is a place where even the most casual slices can rip apart bulletproof fodder. Simply put, tanking shrapnel and steel cutting isn't enough durability to contend with some of the best of what the RWBYverse can do in terms of damage output.

Strength:

Ruby seems to use some sort of projectile weapon to knock back that giant bird, while the Tyrian fight was mostly melee. Not really applicable. Jack on the other hand, matched a building sized monster in a sword fight, which means that was purely his physical strength and skill, nothing else.

Yes and no. Whilst the weapon Ruby was using against that Grimm was designed for long range, she still used it like a traditional melee weapon (she clearly stabs the thing at point blank range), so it shouldn't be considered using a long range attack. And it's not like Ruby used anything to attack that Grimm beyond physical strength and speed.

The clash between Jack and Mad Jack was vaping away the trees and actually set fire to a large portion of the forest. Another issue I have is that again, from your own gif, Qrow obviously built up a lot of momentum by spinning and what not into that strike, while Jack and Mad Jack's clash was a pretty standard one. Qrow does a fancy spinning strike from above, he can't generate this much power normally.

One could easily make a case for Jack doing a similar case, having a starting run before striking and screaming at the top of his lungs, and whilst you can probably counteract that by saying that the multiple slashes he did would cut out the momentum, that would honestly make this feat a bit worse given how it clearly required additional hits to cause this affect, compared to Qrow's singular swing. And at the end of the day this doesn't address the root of the problem, that this feat is a shared one and isn't really really a showcase of a solo Jack's best potential given how it was essentially double of what Jack normally can produce, whilst Qrow's feat is all by his lonesome, thus more applicable to a 1v1 scenario, and thus becoming the superior feat.

Anyway Jack parrying strikes from a building sized monster should be comparable.

As mentioned, Weaker characters than Qrow have replicated similar, if not better feats.

Speed:

Ok, these are good feats, RWBY characters are just as good bullet timers as Jack.

Just gonna use this to emphasize that Blake is leagues below Qrow, even more so than people like Ruby, which paints a very clear picture of how fast Qrow is in terms of reaction speeds.

Unfortunately I can't agree with this. Scaling off bullet timers is fine, but at the end of the day, bullet timing is mostly reactions and some combat speed if you are swatting away the bullets (like Jack did).

And by extension, just like how Blake did, she swatted them all away at point blank rage, so I don't really see your point here.

Swatting away bullets, while still impressive, requires nowhere near the precision, skill or processing capabilities that would be tested in an actual fight.

Alright then, fair enough, let's show off some proper speed feats.

Now I'm aware I've already posted this feat earlier, but now I want to highlight instead of the skill that this would require, but the speed of which Ruby performed this feat, particularly the part at the end segment at the 2:55 mark. What we see is that Ruby was not only capable of cutting through all of those Grimm and do that little pose, but did so before any of the bullets even touched the ground, easily putting her combat speed at to low-hypersonic levels, and given that she wasn't using her Semblance and the recoil from Crescent Rose was seemingly gone, these were the speeds that Tyrian was competing with, and ultimately surpassing given he was going FTE at certain points, alongside the established skill gap.

Jack showed that he can have an entire fight (as in a proper fight, with counters and all, not just blitzing through fodder) against multiple non fodder opponents in a fraction of a second. That's a cut above bullet timing or simply scaling of bullet timers imho.

As shown previously, Ruby has shown the speeds to compete with hypersonic characters, even without her Semblance, which when used allowed her to cause windstorms and suck up JNPR (RNJR but replace Ruby with Pyrrha) in a vacuum, which would put her solidly at Hypersonic levels. And other feats like Weiss destroying an army before one mech even touches the ground (shown previously) is another showing of nigh-hypersonic speeds which Qrow and Tyrian have bested (keep in mind Ruby's feat of going FTE to Weiss is further proof of her hypersonic placing).

Ok so you have proved that RWBY characters are great bullet timers, so I will raise you a hand: namely missile timing.

Fortunately, other characters like Weiss and Blake have missile timed before, and whilst I'll admit it's not as impressive as Jack's showing, given Qrow's higher placing it still shows a lot. And before you bring up the Glyph below Weiss, that only really affected the first movement, the flips was all natural (and even still, it still shows Weiss' ability to both react and respond to a missile well after it's fired.

So basically, a tank shell is fired at Jack and the Scotsman from close range, which they easily react to, and use to destroy their handcuffs. Tank shells can reach hypersonic speeds, and this is a very futurisitc verse, also the recoil of the shell was so high, that it pushed the tank back a fair amount and crashed it into a building. It's safe to say this is an easy hypersonic + speed feat for Jack and the Scotsman.

That is damn impressive, no denying that, but as established I still think the scaling off of Tyrian and the like still puts Qrow on equal footing with this. Given Tyrian was going FTE to someone with hypersonic combat speeds I'd put him at Hypersonic+ as well, once again putting Qrow on equal footing with Jack.

This is also a beastly durability feat, as they practically no sell the shell's explosion which translates to piercing durability since they tanked the shrapnel as well.

Eh, I don't see how shrapnel alone is impressive enough to say that jack will last long against Qrow's blade.

So Jack easily has high hypersonic reactions and in fact probably has better combat speed than Qrow as he can have a entire, complex fight in a fraction of a second.

Again, I think his duel with Tyrian lets him even the odds.

Qrow hasn't shown that he can take down multiple non fodder opponents and have an entire fight with them in such a ridiculously short duration.

Fortunately Ruby has shown those speeds, and even if they were against fodder, it doesn't change the speeds at which Ruby was moving, nor the larger amount of mooks she had to mop up compared, plus the pose she does at the end, should even out the difference.

Durability:

Now that I think about it, this honestly is a borderline non factor, as Jack's sword is magical and cut through intangible beings who can regenerate, like Aku for instance. I can provide feats and justification for this if you want, but trust me, Jack's sword's magical properties would pretty much nullify Qrow's aura defenses.

Not really sure how cutting intangibles affects Aura, since even without the healing factor, it still acts as a shield for the user, so it's still an inherent resistance and is essentially a second layer of skin to peel off, and it's not like being able to cut intangibles would turn off the shield, nor bypass it.

Even without that, scaling to Weiss' durability allows Qrow to take a hit from this Arma Gigas, who considering are stated (the manga is canon btw) to be as strong as the several concrete pillar destroying Atlesian Mechs, makes Qrow's piercing resistance quite formidable, if admittedly not enough to go completely untouched, but hey, can't really say the opposite for Jack even with what you showed.

Conclusion:

Skill: I still put Jack's fights vs the Daughters alone over anything Qrow has done, simply because of the fact that Jack went in with massive handicaps and still solo'd a group of highly trained, better armed assassins who were his physical equals. Qrow on the other hand in fact got disarmed once against Tyrian.

Yeah, I'll concede that Jack certainly has better H2H feats, and in theory should have better swordsmanship, but based on what you've show, Qrow should have the ability to keep pace even if I concede the initial advantage.

Strength: Striking strength seems about equal I'd say and Jack probably has a slight edge given that Tyrian's best cutting feats involve him building some momentum into the blow.

Jack's best feat even if you want to consider them equal, is still a shared feat which you haven't denied, so Qrow still has the edge.

Durability: Jack actually has solid cutting and piercing durability showings, and Qrow isn't putting him down easily.

So has people far worse than Qrow, and Shrapnel isn't enough to last long against Harbinger.

Speed: Qrow has nothing except scaling to bullet timers, while Jack has solid bullet timing feats of his own and more. He has high hypersonic reactions and can have complex fights in a fraction of a second. Qrow hasn't shown that level of combat speed.

Scaling to Tyrian's FTE feat compared to Ruby's speed makes Qrow at the very least Hypersonic, and the speed

Stamina: Jack has two showings of fighting for an entire day without breaks, one against the Scotsman, the other against Mad Jack, both of whom were highly skilled and Jack's physical equals. I didn't see any stamina showings from Qrow so Jack stomps this category, and this is a very important factor in a pure melee and skill based fight like this.

Doubt this fight is gonna last that long, so I don't think it's going to matter really.

He has solid cutting and piercing resistance while I am yet to see Qrow tanking a cutting attack head on. Jack can one shot.

Weiss taking hits from the Arma Gigas shows that, with scaling, Qrow has enough piercing resistance to

Jack's stamina ludicrously trumps Qrow. Qrow is gonna get worn out soon.

Hardly, we've never seen Qrow flat out run our of juice mid-fight, and the fights not going to last that long either way, so not really a factor.

Jack has a definite skill advantage so far. He might very well disarm Qrow like Tyrian did.

Which Tyrian was only capable of due to his tail essentially acting like a 3rd hand, something Jack obviously doesn't have access to.

Jack has shown better combat speed than Qrow, whose feats simply consist of keeping up with bullet timers.

Simply putting them as "bullet timers" is the understatement of the century, given Ruby's at minimum close-to-hypersonic speeds, and Qrow being fast than them gives him more than enough to keep pace.

Final Conclusion:

1. Strength - Still Qrow by virtue of his best feat not being a shared one, and scaling off of students like Yatsuhashi puts the nail in the coffin.
2. Durability - Qrow, Aura plus scaling off of Weiss gives him the edge, albeit neither character are taking many hits for very long.
3. Speed - Still the closet, and would honestly call it a tie, but I'd still give it to Qrow. Keeping up with Tyrian's speeds and scaling from other low hypersonic students gives him the slight edge he needs.
4. Skill - Gonna begrudgingly give this to Jack, especially in H2H, but Qrow has enough swordsmanship showings to say he won't get completely god stomped in this category at all.

In the end, Qrow still wins in a very good fight, where he can use his superior strength, durability and speed to match in order to overwhelm Jack, ultimately putting him down.

My concluder is done, actually feel halfway proud of this debate. So whenever you're ready.

Surprisingly good argument here. Lets see how this ends.

My post will be up by the end of this week.

Tag after every post

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Hey I just wanna clear this up right now, in the durability section you showed a feat for an Armored Mecha and scaled Qrow to that, but the feat only shows the Mecha punching a character through a concrete pillar, where are you getting the piercing durability from?

@shirso: I posted a scan from the RWBY manga which states that The Arma Gigas is as strong as the concrete destroying mech, so that was my justification fro how strong that Arma was compared to the other one.

@shirso: healthy bump.

Sorry for the delay. Am on a trek so erratic internet. Will post next week.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

Closer

Apologies for the delay. This being the last post, I won't make it very long, just go over each of the relevant sections again briefly to reach an answer as to who wins this bout.

The 5 primary categories I feel most relevant are:

• Strength
• Speed
• Skill
• Durability
• Stamina and endurance

So, let's get to it:

Strength

Yes and no. Whilst the weapon Ruby was using against that Grimm was designed for long range, she still used it like a traditional melee weapon (she clearly stabs the thing at point blank range), so it shouldn't be considered using a long range attack. And it's not like Ruby used anything to attack that Grimm beyond physical strength and speed.

It seems like Ruby used the momentum of her long range weapon to stab the creature and rive it back there. While it was not entirely a long range projectile attack, it's clearly not her pure physical strength either.

One could easily make a case for Jack doing a similar case, having a starting run before striking and screaming at the top of his lungs, and whilst

But Qrow obviously built a lot more momentum into the attack by spinning furiously in the air and then jumping from a small height while Jack just ran upto his opponent and exchanged a few blows. At the very least I can say Jack will be dishing out this level of output more than Qrow will dishing out building collapsing output. That's because simply running to build momentum is a lot easier and more common than doing a fancy maneuver in the air that Qrow did to generate that amount of force.

you can probably counteract that by saying that the multiple slashes he did would cut out the momentum, that would honestly make this feat a bit worse given how it clearly required additional hits to cause this affect, compared to Qrow's singular swing.

While they did exchange multiple blows at the beginning, in the second half of the clip we see they are just locking blades and pushing against each other, which are vaping away the trees surrounding them.

And at the end of the day this doesn't address the root of the problem, that this feat is a shared one and isn't really really a showcase of a solo Jack's best potential given how it was essentially double of what Jack normally can produce, whilst Qrow's feat is all by his lonesome, thus more applicable to a 1v1 scenario, and thus becoming the superior feat.

This is balanced by the following factors:

• Jack and his clone were simply pushing their swords against each other while Qrow did a fancy spin mid air to generate a lot of momentum into what is essentially a one off attack. Jack's normal output is much closer to my feat than Qrow's is to yours.
• Jack's feat itself is probably a little better than Qrow's shockwave collapsing a small part of a building. I mean uprooting and cutting to pieces dozens of tall trees should be a bit more impressive than destabilizing a part of a building.

As mentioned, Weaker characters than Qrow have replicated similar, if not better feats.

Stabbing a big bird and driving it back using the momentum of a long ranged projectile weapon isn't as good a feat of raw strength as Jack actually parrying blows from a building sized lava monster with an equally large sword or parrying giant Aku's blows, the latter of which was done when Jack even lacked a proper weapon, or clashing with the Minions of Set, each of which can one shot a large, thick stone pillar.

The point I am trying to make is Jack operates at building lvl and parries blows from building sized monsters far more consistently than Qrow or other characters he scales from. Qrow's only real feat at that level required a lot of built up momentum behind it and his regular slashes clearly don't pack that amount of power behind them. Jack can meanwhile parry building lvl attacks without having to build up an momentum.

Apart from swordsmanship, Jack's regular punches and kicks are quite powerful as well, and as I have shown numerous time till now,he likes to integrate h2h heavily into his swordsmanship.

Kicks a building sized monster hard enough to send him crashing into and shatter a portion of a hill. While he did build momentum here, as you can see he kicked the monster while he was on his upward swing (which would mean he was working against gravity) and the fact that he had no leverage.

And this level of strength is very consistent with Jack. He could kick down a pretty tall stone pillar with a casual shove from his foot.

Lastly, in S5, he ripped out a chunk of rock from a golem and threw it hard enough to pierce cleanly through the golem (said golem was made of pure stone).

These feats show that Jack's raw strength consistently operates at building lvl, and even his punches and kicks, which he mixes in liberally with his swordsmanship, is bound to really hurt Qrow.

Speed

As shown previously, Ruby has shown the speeds to compete with hypersonic characters, even without her Semblance, which when used allowed her to cause windstorms and suck up JNPR (RNJR but replace Ruby with Pyrrha) in a vacuum, which would put her solidly at Hypersonic levels. And other feats like Weiss destroying an army before one mech even touches the ground (shown previously) is another showing of nigh-hypersonic speeds which Qrow and Tyrian have bested (keep in mind Ruby's feat of going FTE to Weiss is further proof of her hypersonic placing).

My problem with the combat speed feats you have shown is that for both Ruby's feat of killing those wolves before the bullet shells touched the ground, or Weiss slaughtering an army of mechs before their parts touched the ground,

...., is that in both cases they are essentially blitzing through hordes of fodder. Neither those mechs nor the wolves could react to their blitz at all so really all that Ruby or Weiss would really need to do is run through the hordes and swing their weapon wildly.

In Jack's water drop feat, meanwhile, all the opponents were among the verse's beat trained mercenaries/bounty hunters and each of them could perceive and throw complicated attacks in a fraction of a second. Yet Jack beat them all in an amount of time which is about the same as Ruby or Weiss (faster than the time it took for a water drop to hit the ground), but he had to perform far more complicated counters and maneuvers than Ruby or Weiss. Which is why I feel his combat speed is better.

That is damn impressive, no denying that, but as established I still think the scaling off of Tyrian and the like still puts Qrow on equal footing with this. Given Tyrian was going FTE to someone with hypersonic combat speeds I'd put him at Hypersonic+ as well, once again putting Qrow on equal footing with Jack.

Ok, I will post one last feat for Jack's reaction that will prove beyond doubt that he will have no trouble keeping up with Qrow's combat speed at all.

Jack was able to casually deflect a rock thrown hard enough to catch fire.

Durability

Not really sure how cutting intangibles affects Aura, since even without the healing factor, it still acts as a shield for the user, so it's still an inherent resistance and is essentially a second layer of skin to peel off, and it's not like being able to cut intangibles would turn off the shield, nor bypass it.

Because Aku regenerates instantly from bullets, missiles, etc as well and Jack's sword still damages him easy. It can provide some extra resistance initially but not regeneration and will soon be shredded by Jack's sword.

Eh, I don't see how shrapnel alone is impressive enough to say that jack will last long against Qrow's blade.

I think Jack's feat of coming away with only a few bruises after taking numerous hits from the Minions of Set is enough to argue he can take quite a few attacks from Qrow. Jack's own sword slices through steel and futuristic robots like butter and parries attacks from building sized monsters. The Minions' weapons and their strength were enough to match Jack.

No selling the shrapnel from a missile exploding in his face just makes it all the more consistent.

Even without that, scaling to Weiss' durability allows Qrow to take a hit from this Arma Gigas, who considering are stated (the manga is canon btw) to be as strong as the several concrete pillar destroying Atlesian Mechs, makes Qrow's piercing resistance quite formidable,

I don't see Weiss taking a direct hit from that mecha and surviving in this video at all.

It's clear that both times she blocked the Mecha's attack with her own blade. In Jack's case, he actually took multiple attacks from the Minions' weapons on his bare skin and just got a few bruises.

if admittedly not enough to go completely untouched, but hey, can't really say the opposite for Jack even with what you showed.

I think this point soundly goes to Jack. Qrow doesn't have a single direct feat of taking a bladed weapon on his skin at all, and even the people he scales from, like Weiss, have no feats like Jack tanking the Minions' attacks on his skin without using his own weapon to block or defend himself.

Jack's cutting durability >> Qrow

Again, the shockwaves Qrow and Ruby that I have shown should show that at there best, they an easily overcome this, given how this verse is a place where even the most casual slices can rip apart bulletproof fodder. Simply put, tanking shrapnel and steel cutting isn't enough durability to contend with some of the best of what the RWBYverse can do in terms of damage output.

Yeah I am not saying Jack is going to no sell all of Qrow's attacks or anything, just that Qrow will need to put some real effort and momentum into his blows to do significant damage to Jack given the latter's piercing durability, something that Qrow himself is lacking in. Meanwhile Jack consistently operates at a level of strength where he can contend against building lvl attacks easily and cut through steel like paper. Qrow hasn't shown the piercing durability required to tank strikes with building lvl strength behind them on his bare skin.Jack has.

This means, if speed and strength are equal, Qrow will be getting cut and damaged much more easily than Jack, which will prove to be his downfall.

Skill

I am not gonna discuss this much since you said this in your final conclusion:

Skill - Gonna begrudgingly give this to Jack, especially in H2H, but Qrow has enough swordsmanship showings to say he won't get completely god stomped in this category at all.

So you conceded that Jack in fact does have a skill advantage. I will address one statement of yours though:

And here in lies a rather concerning issue, in that despite Jack being a swordsman who seemingly prides himself on his skill, you showed very little actual swordsmanship skill feats (we'll get to them in a moment) All of these other feats can be labeled as either H2H or improvisation/intelligence skill, so creating an image of how good Jack actually is with his sword is quite difficult based on what you've presented.

I have showed multiple instances of Jack fighting against skilled opponents with bladed weapons, but H2H skill is an important factor in this fight as well, because Jack does mix in h2h very liberally into his swordsmanship, as we saw extensively in his fights against the Daughters of Aku, and his punches and kicks are quite formidable themselves. This actually gives Jack a nice versatility boost against Qrow, who seems to be exclusively a weapons master.

Stamina and Endurance

This is undoubtedly a landslide in Jack's favor, a point you tried to avoid by saying:

Doubt this fight is gonna last that long, so I don't think it's going to matter really.

Um no. I think we both agree that these two are very closely matched in areas like speed , skill and strength. As your own final conclusion states:

1. Strength - Still Qrow by virtue of his best feat not being a shared one, and scaling off of students like Yatsuhashi puts the nail in the coffin.
2. Durability - Qrow, Aura plus scaling off of Weiss gives him the edge, albeit neither character are taking many hits for very long.
3. Speed - Still the closet, and would honestly call it a tie, but I'd still give it to Qrow. Keeping up with Tyrian's speeds and scaling from other low hypersonic students gives him the slight edge he needs.
4. Skill - Gonna begrudgingly give this to Jack, especially in H2H, but Qrow has enough swordsmanship showings to say he won't get completely god stomped in this category at all.

So according to you, Jack is more skilled, Qrow is stronger, speed is about equal, and Qrow has a slight edge in durability, correct?

Not that I agree with this assessment, but Jack has fought against a guy pretty similar relative to him as Qrow is by your assessment.

Namely the Scotsman, who is stronger, less skilled but as fast as Jack.

And we saw how long that fight took, an entire day with still neither having a clear advantage.

It was the same against Mad Jack, Jack's equal in every way.

Point is we have seen what happens when Jack fights an opponent closely matched to him in skill and stats, and in both cases it has gone on for a day.

Qrow doesn't have a massive advantage over Jack in any category, either stats or skill or weapons, so I honesty don't get how you are asserting that this fight won't last long.

In which case, Jack's far superior stamina indeed comes into play, as he can fight at full power for an entire day non stop, something Qrow doesn't come remotely close to. This is what decisively tilts the fight in Jack's favor as he can simply outlast Qrow.

Conclusion

As was my initial premise, let's do a final once over of the relevant factors which will decide this fight.

1)Strength: I think I have proven that Qrow doesn't really hit harder than what Jack can replicate or handle. In fact, Jack's consistent output seems to be better than Qrow's, whose best feat needed him to build up a lot of momentum, and obviously is not where he is operating with his normal strikes.

Qrow can consistently slice apart steel, bullet proof fodder, etc, but Jack can do the same and much more, since he has parried blows from building sized creatures multiple times using only raw strength.

2)Speed: I don't think anyone's blitzing the other here, but I have proven Jack's consistent reactions are enough to more than keep up with Qrow and his combat speed is likely a bit better because of the water drop feat. Jack can perform a lot of complicated counters, attacks and maneuvers against highly skilled opponents in a very, very short interval. Qrow hasn't really shown a feat of pure combat speed at that level.

3)Durability: As I said, Jack takes this. His magic sword negates Qrow's aura healing, and Qrow's piercing durability itself isn't anywhere near Jack's level, as Qrow has never tanked an actual piercing attack on his bare skin. Something Jack has done multiple times. Qrow is going to get cut a lot more easily than Jack here, make no mistake.

4)Skill: As my opponent admitted, this goes to Jack. Especially, Jack incorporating h2h so effectively into his fighting style will make it all the more difficult for Qrow, since Jack is a beast in h2h and his punches and kicks are quite powerful as well.

5)Stamina and Endurance: As I have shown, Jack has fought opponents who are his nigh equal in stats and skill before, and in all those cases the fight waged on for at least a day with no victor in sight. There's no reason Qrow will be different only in this case Qrow doesn't have the stamina feats to fight for that long. This decisively puts this matchup firmly in Jack's favor, as unless Qrow can dispose of Jack really really quickly (which he can't as they are so closely matched in other areas), it will become harder ad harder for Qrow as the fight drags.

All in all, as everyone can see, Jack wins this fight mainly due to his considerable advantages in durability and stamina.

They are close everywhere else but Qrow will get cut by Jack far more easily than vice versa, and Jack can fight for a much longer time with far more injuries than Qrow. Guess who wins in such a scenario? :)

Voting is Open Gentlemen!!

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@indomitableregal

@red_ruby_petal

@rac95

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Nice, I'll get back to this shortly. If not tag me by Tuesday.

Gotta reread this before voting

@shirso: @gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps:

I am sorry that it took me so long to vote, but I kinda forgot about it and had to re-read it again. First of all, compliments to both sides I really enjoyed reading your arguments. As for the result, I give mý vote to Shirso.

First of all power. Both sides brought good examples of their respective characters, but I think Shirso had the upperhand here for a few reasons. The "best" strength examples of both sides were shared ones, but the showing of Jack vs Mad Jack trumped Qrow vs Tyrian IMO.

Also whilst it is possible and logical to scale Qrow from other characters, it is not as easy to scale how far above them Qrow is in reality. Shirso just could bring better and IMO "clearer" examples for Jack.

I think Speed has no clear cut winner here, atleast not at the level were you could say that one side blitzes the other. Still think Shirso had the advantage of the multiple different examples he could use.

Skill doesn't really be touched.

In the durability department Aura is an advantage, but the clear levels are hard to gauge. It is clear that both sides have the chance to dispose of the other, but the example of the drawn out fight against the Minions of Set sold it for me.

Stamina goes to Shirso by a landslide, Jack is just ridiculous in this area.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Jacks blade could automatically cut through Qrows Aura, I don't think the example of hurting beings like Aku is enough,since it was basically designed for this. A few more examples to sell it would have helped, but Jacks superior strength combined with equal if not slightly better speed and skill, were enough for me to see that he could hurt Qrow regardless

After all I think the biggest disadvantage you had GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps, is the fact that you had to rely a lot on scaling against clear cut feats. I also wouldn't necessarily agree that he is automatically superior to every "weaker" character in all categories.

All in all I vote for Shirso

@rac95: Thanks for the vote :)