CaV: Prometheus (Darthjhawk) Vs. Ultimate Captain America (Blackpantherisb)

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blackpantherisb

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Ultimate Captain America

@blackpantherisb
@blackpantherisb
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Prometheus

@darthjhawk
@darthjhawk

Stipulations

  • Earth-1610 feats for Captain America
  • Pre/Post Flashpoint feats for Prometheus
  • No prior knowledge
  • Morals on
  • Standard gear
  • No BFR
  • Win by KO/death/incapacitation

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#3 darthjhawk  Moderator
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TourneyMaster

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T4V if this finishes.

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This seems......interesting.

Tag for every post

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This looks like a nice fight. I'll be watching this one.

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#8 darthjhawk  Moderator
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Tag please

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Ultimate Captain America

"You think this letter on my head stands for France?"

Biography

Alright, since I'm too lazy to write my own character biography I'm going to copy the one off his wiki:

"Steve Rogers grew up in Brooklyn during the Great Depression, a scrawny kid protected from neighborhood bullies by his best friend "Bucky" Barnes. Horrified by newsreel footage of the Nazis in Europe, Rogers was inspired to enlist in the Army around the time the United States entered World War II. However, because of failing the physical test, he was rejected. Refusing to work at the factories, he reattempted enlistment several times. His luck changed during another visit to Recruitment Center when Military Sergeant Dugan recruited him for Project: Rebirth after hearing Rogers' pleas. After voluntarily subjecting to surgery, steroid treatments, and other experimental treatments supervised by Doctor Erskine, Rogers became the first genetically-enhanced super-soldier. During the final treatment however, he noticed a suspicious soldier focusing on him instead of standing guard. The shady man revealed himself as a Nazi spy sent to murder Rogers in the event he survive the entire experiment. Nearly sabotaging the entire experiment, Rogers stopped him, but not before the spy murdered Doctor Eskine and a few American soldiers who attempted to stop him. Fully committing himself to the American war efforts, Rogers bid farewell to his sweetheart Gail Richards, becoming Captain America.

For the next three years, he underwent numerous covert operations, often accompanied by Bucky, now a war photographer, and sometimes alongside James "Lucky Jim" Howlett. During one mission Captain America was able to infiltrate Arnim Zola's facility and kill his first experimental monster, which Zola dubbed "Siegsoldat" ("Victory soldier"). The experiment's dead body then fell on Arnim Zola, seemingly killing him. During one of his few leaves he met up with Gail and they spent the night together, which would later result in her becoming pregnant. He would later come into battle with Herr Kleiser, who introduced a prototype A-Bomb that was made with alien technology meant to target the White House. However they were too late to stop the bomb from launching, but Captain America managed to get to the bomb as it is launched. In a successful attempt to stop it in mid air, he fell into the sea and was presumed dead."

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America_(Ultimate_Marvel_character)

Strength

I don't know too much about Prometheus, but just from browsing some of his respect threads I feel fairly confident that Captain America holds a solid physical edge in the department. I'll start off with his lifting strength, which Ult. Cap has a highly impressive degree of:

The Ultimates 2 #5 - The Passion Play
The Ultimates 2 #5 - The Passion Play

In this instance Steve catches a massive multi-ton tree that was falling at high speeds, he was even cracking jokes while doing so. And keep in mind that seconds before the same trees were pancaking armored military vehicles with their falls.

Striking strength is also an excellent category for Steve, I would even go as far as to say that very few street levelers have consistent striking power on par with his:

The Ultimates #3 - 21st Century Boy
The Ultimates #3 - 21st Century Boy

Off-panel a weekend, newly awakened Steve hits two guards so hard that they fly into a military metal containment door and send it flying clean off of it's hinges. Again, Cap did this whilst rusty and weakened, so when he's at full strength his feats only becomes more impressive:

Ultimate Extinction #5
Ultimate Extinction #5

When Steve's shield-bash and and enhanced clone's blow collide it produces a massive shockwave that shatters the ground under them and rag dolls the surrounding super-soldiers. Keep in mind that Steve had to directly match the power that the clone was putting out with his shield bash, since in the Ultimate verse his shield doesn't absorb kinetic energy. I'm already fairly positive that Prometheus will have a very hard time tanking a blow of this caliber, and it's still on Cap's low end:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #23 - Reconstruction, Part 5 of 6
Ultimate Comics Ultimates #23 - Reconstruction, Part 5 of 6

Here Cap casually breaks Tigra's arm and one shots her with a shield bash, ploughing here clean through a concrete column. And oneshotting Tigra is a pretty impressive feat given that only an issue earlier she tanked a punch to the face from a bloodlusted Wonder-Man:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #22 - Reconstruction, Part 4 of 6
Ultimate Comics Ultimates #22 - Reconstruction, Part 4 of 6

And scaling above Wonder-Man in striking power is fairly ridiculous, since he can toss around Humvees like they're made out of styrofoam:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #22 - Reconstruction, Part 4 of 6
Ultimate Comics Ultimates #22 - Reconstruction, Part 4 of 6

As you can see Simon could easily toss a military grade Humvee (which weighs close to four tons) dozens of feet away, causing to to smash into a rock and crumple. Suffice it to say Ultimate Captain America has insane physicals, and it shouldn't take many blows to put Prometheus down.

Durability

Durability is another category in which I am confident that Captain America holds a firm advantage in, the guy is an absolute tank, and Prometheus will certainly struggle to put him down. I'll start out with Steve's blunt force durability showings:

The Ultimates #3 - 21st Century Boy
The Ultimates #3 - 21st Century Boy

With one of his massive palms Hank Pym slams Captain America down onto the Humvee he was on top of, completely and utterly pancaking it, yet Captain America remains unphased and continues to fight against his captors grip. And, let me remind you that this was a weakened Cap. When at full strength he can tank direct blows from Giant Man:

The Ultimates #9 - Captain America Vs. Giant Man
The Ultimates #9 - Captain America Vs. Giant Man

Here Steve gets sloughed clean through a thick wall by a seriously pissed off Giant Man, and he recovers with little to no damage. This is a pretty insane feat when you consider the fact that just seconds later Giant Man was tossing excavators dozens of meters:

The Ultimates #9 - Captain America Vs. Giant Man

And excavators weigh roughly 15 tons, so tossing them around like baseballs is pretty damn ridiculous, yet Cap can still shrug off blows from him. And Steve can also endure hits from fellow supersoliders:

Ultimate Captain America #2 - Covert Cap...

With a single blow an old woman who has been injected by the super solider serum send Captain America flying dozens of meters clean through a tree, and Captain America was practically unphased, then dozens of beings with equal stats to the old woman pile onto Cap and pepper him with a barrage of super-human blows, yet even after all of that he retains consciousness, granted he was incapacitated.

Obviously the Captain's blunt force durability is off the charts, but how does he handle energy attacks? Pretty damn well also:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #17 - United We Stand Part Two: Hydra War One

After Modi sets the Warmachine armors on Cap they blast him out of the sky, causing him and his aircraft to fall hundreds of feet, they resulting crash produces a massive explosion, and yet Captain America emerges still in fighting shape. This feat becomes even more impressive when you consider the damage output of the Warmachine drones:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #17 - United We Stand Part Two: Hydra War One
Ultimate Comics Ultimates #17 - United We Stand Part Two: Hydra War One

As you can clearly see a mere two blasts from the Warmachine drones produce a massive building sized explosion that completely obliterates dozens of soldiers, blasting them to pieces. Yet Captain America tanked blasts from these drones, a massive fall, and another huge explosion all back to back.

Clearly it is going to be exceedingly difficult for Prometheus to take out Captain America.

Speed

This category is far closer than the other two, but I am still confident that Captain America can match Prometheus in speed, potentially even exceed him. I'll start off with any high-street levelers bread and butter, bullet timing:

Ultimate Avengers #3 - The Next Generation Part 3, The Search Continues...
Ultimate Avengers #3 - The Next Generation Part 3, The Search Continues...

In an incredible display of speed Captain America catches his shield as Hawkeye shoots at him, and then, explicitly after the shots have been fired, Steve uses his shield to slap the tranqs back into Hawkeye's face. Now you may argue that this isn't a bullet timing feat since the round Hawkeye fired were tranqs, however the shots were fired out of a standard block (this is what a tranquilizer gun looks like) so the rounds would still be moving at bullet speed. And Cap has multiple bullet timing feats:

Ultimate New Ultimates #5 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 5: Love
Ultimate New Ultimates #5 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 5: Love

Here Steve acrobatically weaves/dodges dozens upon dozens of round from an automatic machine gun at point blank range. The only damage he sustains from this is a minor scratch on his arm. This feat alone establishes Cap on a Prometheus' level, and he applies these same levels of speed in combat:

Ultimate Avengers #2 - The Next Generation Part 2

In this instance, with 20 guards aimed and ready standing 15 feet away from him Captain America manages to turn around, and leap 15 feet, blitzing the guards before any of them can even react enough to pull the trigger. And he has even better feats than these:

Ultimate Captain America Annual

After fighting for three hours straight (which is a pretty insane endurance feat) Ult. Cap manages to outmaneuver and defeat Black Panther. And keep in mind that T'Challa speed is utterly ridiculous, he was able to blitz Valkyrie:

Ultimate New Ultimates #3 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 3: Lies
Ultimate New Ultimates #3 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 3: Lies

As you can see T'Challa completely outclasses Valkyrie in speed, he casually lept over her attack (which then caused her to kill one of her allies) and then blitzed her with a kick to the face. And keep in mind that Valkyrie herself is absurdly fast:

Ultimate New Ultimates #3 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 3: Lies
Ultimate New Ultimates #3 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 3: Lies

In the exact same comic as the one Black Panther blitzes her in Valkyrie is seen deflecting a hail of machine gun bullets with her sword at point blank range.

I think we can agree that speed won't be a major factor in this fight given how closely comparable the two are in this department, though I have better feats for Cap if necessary.

Skill

This will certainly be a focal point of the debate, Prometheus' biggest asset is likely his skill. However, once again I believe that Captain America will be more than capable of matching his adversary in this department. I'll start out with some fairly mundane fodder wrecking showings:

One & Two: Using impressive skill Captain America fodderizes dozens of clones in a short time frame without getting tagged once. Keep in mind that Cap was tranquilized and weakened in this instance. (The Ultimates 2 #10 - Axis of Evil) Three, Four, & Five: In this instance Ult. Cap goes up against 15 armed HYDRA insurgents, and using impressive agility and skill takes them all out in a matter of seconds, whilst blocking gunfire from multiple angles the whole time. (Ultimate Comics Ultimates #19 - Reconstruction, Part 1 of 6: Any Given Sunday)

All of these showings display decent technical skill, but clearly nothing too impressive, most street levelers worth their salt could replicate these showings, and I concede that in terms of sheer skill knowledge Prometheus holds a solid edge, however Cap's real skill comes from his tactical thinking and practical combat application/ability. This is what allows him to consistently take on threats on much higher tiers than himself:

Ultimate New Ultimates #2 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 2: Lost
Ultimate New Ultimates #2 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 2: Lost

In this instance Captain America catches a blow from Valkyrie and then outmaneuvers her, using a potent kick to floor her, ultimately forcing her to run away. This clearly establishes that Cap is the superior fighter to Valkyrie in CQC, and she objectively has massively better physicals than he does:

The Ultimates 3 #2
The Ultimates 3 #2

As you can see here Valkyrie blocked a hit from the morals-off bloodlusted Thor and she didn't seen to struggle at all, she was even making quips about it. Now look what happens when Ultimate Cap. tries to block a blow from a pissed off Thor:

Ultimate New Ultimates #4 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 4: Loki

As you can see when Cap tries to block Thor's blow with a sword he is completely and utterly overpowered, he is disarmed and sent flying back hundreds of feet, down several blocks and through a skyscraper. And this isn't the only time Valk has demonstrated heavy physical superiority to Cap:

Ultimate New Ultimates #3 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 3: Lies

As you can see Valkyrie casually one shots Cap with the butt of her sword. Keep in mind that the only reason she managed to tag him was that he was heavily distracted by the fact that she had just destroyed his shield with her brand new magical sword.

So clearly Valkyrie>>>>Cap physically, yet due to his speed, skill, and combat ability he was able to easily overwhelm her in CQC. Keep in mind that even if they were equal in physicals trouncing Valk would still be impressive given the fact that she's a casual bullet timer, and she can easily blitz Thor:

The Ultimates 3 #2
The Ultimates 3 #2

And being vastly faster than Thor is a pretty excellent speed feat, since Thor himself is a super-casual bullet timer:

Ultimate New Ultimates #5 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 5: Love
Ultimate New Ultimates #5 - Thor Reborn, Chapter 5: Love

Even after being blinded Thor manages to effortlessly react to 50 caliber machine gun fire (which moves at roughly mach 3.3) even remarking on the attempt as pathetic.

So not only did Captain America humiliate someone massively stronger than him in CQC, but that same person is also has ludicrous speed that allows her to blitz casual bullet timers. Clearly Cap is extremely skilled.

But this was mostly showing off his combat ability, what about his tactics? He can combine his tactics and skills to take out beings massively abovehim in physical stats:

One, Two, Three, Four, & Five: Captain America defeats Giant Man in a highly efficient fashion. Firstly he gets a running start, building momentum and pulling Hank down into the construction site. After that he dodges an excavator thrown by Pym and then uses his agility to climb the scientist's massive body and kick him in the face, disorienting him. Finally Captain America strategically uses the environment to his advantage and slices through the cord supporting dozens of multi-ton metal pipes that were hanging above the disoriented Giant Man, ultimately dropping Hank. Obviously Giant Man is on a completely separate physical tier from Cap (tossing 15 ton excavators hundreds of feet with low difficulty, surviving hundreds upon hundreds of tons of raw steel falling on him at high speeds etc.) yet through the use of skill and tactics Captain America managed to easily defeat him. (The Ultimates #9 - Captain America Vs. Giant Man) Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, & Ten: Captain America starts off the fight against the Silver Herald by tossing in a flashbang, this then draws the Herald out, and Steve proceeds blocks the Herald's bullrush with his shield. He then uses his taser to amplify the electricity that the Silver Herald is covered in, stunning him, then Cap bullrushes him through the concrete wall (a solid striking feat) and into the ground team enough to hit water pipes, finally Cap redirects the Herald lightning into the water, heavily stunning him and leaving him open to attacks from Captain Mar-Vell. (Ultimate Extinction #4) Obviously this shows Cap tactics and how effectively he can manipulate his environment to combat foes on a much higher tier, and the Silver Herald are objectively Mid-tiers:

Ultimate Extinction #3

As you can see the Silver Heralds can casually crumple Iron Man's armor (which can withstand Megaton blasts and blows from Thor) and it took Tony reverting full power to his arms to be able to rip off the Silver Herald's head, which is highly impressive since Iron Man with low power could slow and redirect the fall of a town-sized spaceship. It's lightning was also powerful enough to oneshot Tony and Mar-Vell, which is ridiculous since Ult. Iron Man has tanked Thor's lightning. Overall the Silver Herald's are certainly Mid-Tiers, and yet Cap was able contend with, and even defeat one using his skill in tandem with his tactics.

There are far from Steve's best skill feats, but I think that they clearly display just how skillful/formidable he really is. He may not have the same amount of sheer skill and skill knowledge as Prometheus, but due to his quick thinking, tactics, and practical combat ability I'm confident that he can match Prometheus in CQC.

Gear

This is also one of Prometheus' best areas, but I think Cap can sufficiently counter it. All of Prometheus' most lethal/useful gear is ranged, but Cap has an excellent counter to these weapons, his trusty shield, which can withstand almost any attack:

Ultimate Hulk Annual #1 - No Shoes, No Shirt, No Pants, No Service!
Ultimate Hulk Annual #1 - No Shoes, No Shirt, No Pants, No Service!

Captain America's shield is able to block a deathblow from Zarda with no damage. And this feat shows that just about nothing can pierce his shield since only a few pages later, in the same issue, Zara's ax slices clean through the Hulk's arm:

Ultimate Hulk Annual #1 - No Shoes, No Shirt, No Pants, No Service!
Ultimate Hulk Annual #1 - No Shoes, No Shirt, No Pants, No Service!

Given this I seriously doubt that Prometheus' projectiles will be able pierce or damage Cap's shield, but what about his explosives and blunt force attacks:

Ultimate Comics Ultimates #17 - United We Stand Part Two: Hydra War One
Ultimate Comics Ultimates #17 - United We Stand Part Two: Hydra War One

Cap's shield gets hit by a morals off Thor who was massively amplifying his strike with lightning producing a massive forest sized shockwave, yet the shield remains unharmed. Keep in mind that this is the same Thor who can destroy several town-sized spaceships with his lightning and one-shot an amped Hulk with a single blow.

Frankly I think that Cap's shield will be able to withstand/block all of Prometheus' attacks without sustaining damage, and due to his high level of speed and skill Cap will be able to react to all of Prometheus' attacks.

Conclusion

This will certainly be a close fight, but I believe that Cap has all the tools he needs to win. Prometheus' best two categories are by far skill and gear. In terms of skill, whilst Prometheus' may know more fighting styles and is more classically skilled, I think that Cap's combination of tactics and practical combat ability (on top of his already impressive degree of skill) will allow him to match Prometheus' superior knowledge. As for gear I think that Cap's speed and shield will allow him to block all of Prometheus' dangerous projectiles and gauntlet attacks. In terms of speed I think that both will be able to comfortably contend with each other, I don't think either holds a significant advantage in this category. The real reason I feel that Ultimate Captain America wins this fight comes down to his physicals, his durability is ridiculous and will allow him to tank an absolute beating from Prometheus before going down, and his strength and striking are extremely potent. This will allow him to drop Prometheus with only a few blows. Overall this will be a close fight, but due to significantly superior physicals I'm confident that Steve can quickly overwhelm and KO Prometheus.

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#14  Edited By blackpantherisb
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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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TAEP , also

BPIB wins

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ProfessorRespect

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blackpantherisb

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@diarrhearegatta: The one's that say ReadComicOnline? Those get posted all the time around the Vine, the site has legal access to the comics, so it's not piracy.

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@blackpantherisb: It's gotten plenty of people banned regardless so I wouldn't take it so lightly.

If you want to gamble with that kind of stuff, then be my guest. I'm just saying.

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blackpantherisb

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@diarrhearegatta: I guess I'll edit them, but I don't see why it's a problem, its not piracy, the site has a whole page dedicated to addressing copyright infringement.

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Interesting

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#23 darthjhawk  Moderator
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@darthjhawk: Great. Also sorry about the images, I’m editing them now.

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#25 darthjhawk  Moderator
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