Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#1 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

PreCrisisBardock Super Buu (Anime/Manga/Movie feats)

No Caption Provided

Mr_Ingenuity Quasar (Energy form)

No Caption Provided

Rules

  • Standard morals
  • Standard gear
  • No knowledge
  • No prep
  • Win by KO, death, Incapacitation

Location Pluto/In space

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#2 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#3 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#4 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for stormshadow_x
#5 Edited by StormShadow_X (16323 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag?

Avatar image for sy8000
#6 Posted by Sy8000 (35064 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#7 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock: I intended to finish this earlier but maintenance. So I'll post soon as possible.

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#8 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#9 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock:

Character Intro

Wendell Vaughn (Quasar)

The Quickest intro to the character can be given through Handbook entries/bios, but a more detailed intro has feats. So I'll be thorough and display both.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Quasar's strength, speed and durability is relative to what he has shown with the Quantum Bands. Also he is energy and has the ability manipulate himself to the same degree.

Strength

Quasar constructs is where his strength lies and haven shown the capacity to make his constructs as big as earth I would consider Quasar exceptionally strong. Not saying he can move a planet but mountains an islands would be well within his grasp.

Quasar created a razor big enough to slice the Soul Eater with the first two scans depicting its size. Using a construct so large should mean his strength/striking power is in the same range.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

During secret invasion Quasar was revived but limited in energy (being without the Quantum Bands) he displayed the ability to transform into a Hulk construct.

No Caption Provided

.

Speed

Quasar as energy moves faster than light and perceives nanoseconds putting his combat speed faster than light.

Quasar has flown across the universe to punch Maelstrom in the face.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Lets himself be sucked into a black-hole and calculates the time (nanoseconds) it would take to reach the event horizon.

No Caption Provided

Shielding his team with in nanoseconds while simultaneously absorbing their energy to reinforce them.

No Caption Provided

.

Durability

I would consider Quasar durability to be just as impressive as any other character in his tier. Quasar has produced shields capable of withstanding attacks form entire teams (avengers and x-men) & high level energy attacks. Although shields are not invulnerable they take quite a lot of physical strength and far more energy to by pass.

Shields withstand blows form Hulks (Professor and She Hulk), Hercules, hammer throws form Thor, cuts form wolverine and several other characters.

The last scan amuses me because Wolverine gives up attacking and decides to tunnel under the dome.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

React to and tanks the solar flare that destroys earth. Then tanks the nova that finises of the solar system.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Quasar's energy form is also quite durable allowing him to traverse a rip in reality with no ill effects.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Energy manipulation

Quasar excels in this category, having absorbed energy form stars, high level energy manipulators and powering the universal weapon to transmute stars.

Absorbs a star to get the attention of Cosmic beings.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Absorbs the power cosmic to amp his blast while fight against Silver Surfer.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Quasar shield absorbs a blast form Thanos' Avatar and Quasar creates a construct with it.

No Caption Provided

Absorbs most of the energy Phoenix (Rachel Grey) is blasting out and by Quasar's own admission has the raw power of a star.

No Caption Provided

Supplying the power to transmute stars.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This should be enough to understand Quasar's abilities.

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#10 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio

Opener!

Super Buu! Terror of the Universe!

No Caption Provided

Bio:

Super Buu (超ブウ), also called Evil Majin Buu (魔人ブウ 悪, Majin Bū Aku), is the end result of Evil Buu eating the Good Buu turned into chocolate. This new Majin Buu has a tremendous increase in power and has an increased mental capacity. In this form, Buu has very little patience and has extremely dangerous fits of anger, even possessing the power to rip through dimensional walls if he gets angry enough.

- Wiki

Abilities:

  • Ki Manipulation (Magic Ki)
  • Ki Sense (Was able to sense Gohan's Power in another universe. Counted the Earths entire population in seconds, then was able to pierce every one with concentrated blasts.)
  • Extreme Regeneration. Unlike other Z Villains, this is effortless, and consumes little to no energy. It is so great that he regenerated from smoke, twice.
  • Absorption. He can detach a part of himself and use it to absorb an opponent, making him stronger.
  • He can turn into liquid and jump inside of people, making them explode. He enjoys this.
  • Can turn people into whatever he wishes via candy beam.
  • Can copy moves after seeing them performed only once.
  • Telekinesis.
  • Very intelligent. Defeated two opponents that outclassed him heavily with strategy.
  • Can be stretchy.
  • Able to rip space and time by screaming.
  • Multi-Planet Level Striking Strength. (He incapped Dabura with one kick, who was stated to be around Cell's power.)
  • MFTL Combat Speed. (Lolblitzed Every Z warrior except Mystic Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks.)
  • Multi-Planet level Durability. (Tanked multiple hits from an angered Mystic Gohan, who in a very very weakened state atomized Freeza (tanked a point blank planet exploding) with a single punch. )

Will post more feats when requested or necessary.

@mr_ingenuity you're up!

Avatar image for those_eyes
#11 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmmmmmmmm

Avatar image for sanieldanders
#12 Posted by Sanieldanders (120 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for heirtothekingdom
#13 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag.

Also props for being the first guy to post some different Quasar feats/scans. I literally see the same ones in every debate except this one.

Avatar image for khael
#14 Posted by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for ssj_god
#15 Posted by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#16 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@heirtothekingdom: Thanks, but not many can state they have access to his book form the 80's and 90's.

@precrisisbardock

Opening Strategy

Quasar's will start off moving at his top speed with energy & construct attacks to keep Buu off balance. Using constructs Quasar can divided Buu's focus making each construct blast Buu while he figures out what is effective. Quasar has cosmic awareness with an energy sense so he'll be able to understand how Buu's body reacts while he varies the blast between his constructs. Since Buu has shown to be affected by heat Quasar will generate the heat of the sun, hitting Buu with an omni-directional blast preventing any escape & never letting up. I've shown Quasar can absorb a star and his and handbook entry states he can manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum so sun level heat isn't out of his abilities.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

No Caption Provided

.

On the Defensive sided of strategy Quasar has speed, teleportation, energy form and energy manipulation to keep him in top shape during a fight. With speed he doesn't have to tank any of Buu's blast and will follow form a safe distance. Teleportation allows Quasar maintain a safe distance but for some odd reason he can't Quasar can use teleportation to change the location of the fight suppose the sun. Being energy punches, kicks and every form of physical attack is negated. Energy manipulation gives him a clear advantage over Buu as all of Buu's ki will be easily absorbed and added to Quasar's attacks.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I'll address Buu's abilities on the change they are factored in. Quasar being energy can add more energy to his being canceling out the candy beam but at the same time has the candy beam worked on energy beings before. Telekinesis is probably Buu's weakest offensive move against Quasar as Jean Grey couldn't by pass Quasar shield and the Phoenix didn't so I doubt it works on Quasar energy form. Absorption like the candy beam has questionable limits Quasar doesn't have anything the would equate to ki or matter in this form so what would he able to absorb.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#17 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for darkseid1006
#18 Posted by darkseid1006 (4076 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag.

Also props for being the first guy to post some different Quasar feats/scans. I literally see the same ones in every debate except this one.

tell me about it. I debated against Quasar in a CaV a few days ago and i'd seen it so often i actually was able to bring up the scans that would be used before they mentioned them. @mr_ingenuity- tag 4 votes (this should be good)

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#19 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters and Strats!

Quasar's will start off moving at his top speed with energy & construct attacks to keep Buu off balance. Using constructs Quasar can divided Buu's focus making each construct blast Buu while he figures out what is effective.

Buu would be able to sense the real Quasar, and wouldn't fall for the constructs.

No Caption Provided

He was able to sense Gohan's power while Gohan was in the Kaioshin realm (an entirely different universe). To make it more impressive, he was fighting the entire time.

Quasar has cosmic awareness with an energy sense so he'll be able to understand how Buu's body reacts while he varies the blast between his constructs.

How fast are these constructs? I doubt they're fast enough to tag Buu.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Namek Saga Goku was trapped in Freeza's light ball, and escaped the blast with Super Speed the instant it exploded. Not only was he trapped inside of light, he was fast enough to escape it unaffected, somehow phasing through light.

Super Buu was blitzing people who are way faster than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

Since Buu has shown to be affected by heat Quasar will generate the heat of the sun

He has? Not saying he won't be affected, but I don't remember this.

hitting Buu with an omni-directional blast preventing any escape & never letting up

Buu won't sit there while Quasar takes multiple panels absorbing energy. Once he gets hit he'll just regenerate. Even if he lets Quasar absorb the sun energy, he's regenerated from smoke before.

I've shown Quasar can absorb a star and his and handbook entry states he can manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum so sun level heat isn't out of his abilities.

But it took a hella long time for him to get a portion of a stars energy, Buu is smart and calculative, he's not going to let him get away with that.

On the Defensive sided of strategy Quasar has speed, teleportation, energy form and energy manipulation to keep him in top shape during a fight.

Super Buu has the edge in combat speed, even if he continues chipping away at Buu it won't help, it'll only waste energy. Like me shooting the ocean.

With speed he doesn't have to tank any of Buu's blast and will follow form a safe distance

I see Buu tagging him multiple times, plus the more irritated he gets the more powerful he'll become.

Teleportation allows Quasar maintain a safe distance but for some odd reason he can't Quasar can use teleportation to change the location of the fight suppose the sun.

Super Buu would realize he's using the suns energy and will deny him that opportunity.

Energy manipulation gives him a clear advantage over Buu as all of Buu's ki will be easily absorbed and added to Quasar's attacks.

Buu would realize this very early on and adjust.

My battle:

Super Buu would easily locate the real Quasar out of the constructs, and will use his speed to avoid them. After being stalemated for a time, Quasar's power reserves will begin to dwindle, while Super Buu will just regenerate after every attack. You said Physical attacks don't wok on his energy form? Quasar doesn't have the Destructive Capacity to seriously harm Buu, so his energy will run out and allow Buu to pound him down. If push comes to shove, Buu can discretely absorb Quasar by detaching a part of his body mid fight and using it to absorb.

@mr_ingenuity

Avatar image for supremegeneration
#20 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11389 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

If you don't I'll cry.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#21 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock:

Rebuttal I

Buu would be able to sense the real Quasar, and wouldn't fall for the constructs.

Assuming Buu can sense anything besides Ki, Quasar and his constructs are composed of Quantum energy. Considering Quasar and Nova used this tactic to confuse an ability ranging far greater than energy sense I doubt Buu would see thing any different.

How fast are these constructs? I doubt they're fast enough to tag Buu.

Fast as Quasar can operate them which is FTL. I would also rate Quasar's operational speed faster than Buu so there isn't Quasar or constructs can't blast buu.

He has? Not saying he won't be affected, but I don't remember this.

Unless your scan is a mistranslation Piccolo stated burn all the pieces. I'm not seeing a difference in burning materials through pure heat or friction when the end result turns Buu into smoke.

Buu won't sit there while Quasar takes multiple panels absorbing energy. Once he gets hit he'll just regenerate. Even if he lets Quasar absorb the sun energy, he's regenerated from smoke before.

At 27 million degrees °F there wouldn't be any smoke. Quasar would be doing so indefinitely so Buu can't reform keeping him an incapacitated state.

But it took a hella long time for him to get a portion of a stars energy, Buu is smart and calculative, he's not going to let him get away with that.

Those scans where to show Quasar can absorb a star. Quasar alone currently operates with the energy of a star supplying the power necessary to transmute two stars about to go Nova. Quasar deciding he needs star level heat wouldn't be hard for him to produce on his own and sustain with the Quantum bands alone.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Super Buu has the edge in combat speed, even if he continues chipping away at Buu it won't help, it'll only waste energy. Like me shooting the ocean.

I don' think Buu comes close in having the edge in combat speed. Fighting skill OK. Although I'm not seeing any feat you've shown stated or scaled come close to crossing the universe to punch someone in the face. I'm not stating fly at them to bull rush The scan shows Quasar's fist in position to punch without slowing.

Also Quasar doesn't need to wear Buu down Quasar has cosmic awareness so once he find a specific energy Buu's vulnerable to he won't let up.

I see Buu tagging him multiple times, plus the more irritated he gets the more powerful he'll become.

While I'm convinced Quasar is faster, debating if Buu can tag Quasar changes nothing. Physically attacking Quasar is inconsequential and blasting energy at Quasar isn't a tactic that would win a war of attrition.

Super Buu would realize he's using the suns energy and will deny him that opportunity.

How would he deny Quasar an ability of the quantum bands? For that matter how would he notice there at Pluto one of the farthest planetoids in the solar system? With that Quasar isn't limited to the sun he can absorb a star as needed range isn't a factor.

Buu would realize this very early on and adjust.

Adjust to what exactly? Not using energy doesn't stop Quasar form draining it. That's as if Wolverine decided not to pop his claws against Magneto it doesn't change the out come.

Super Buu would easily locate the real Quasar out of the constructs, and will use his speed to avoid them. After being stalemated for a time, Quasar's power reserves will begin to dwindle, while Super Buu will just regenerate after every attack. You said Physical attacks don't wok on his energy form? Quasar doesn't have the Destructive Capacity to seriously harm Buu, so his energy will run out and allow Buu to pound him down. If push comes to shove, Buu can discretely absorb Quasar by detaching a part of his body mid fight and using it to absorb.

While most of this has been addressed there is a misconception that Quasar will weaken using energy, which I should clear up. At the time Quasar was revived Phyla-Vell had the quantum bands but she dies. Which is why Quasar fly across the universe to punch Maelstrom in the face, but he retrieves them as the rightful owner. Now the Quantum Bands is a realm (dimension) of potential energy and has been stated by abstracts as a universe, so there isn't a lack of power Quasar can pull form.

Lastly Quasar blasting Buu with his own energy is quite enough for Quasar's destructive capacity. Whatever you rate Buu in terms of energy is what Quasar can send back but converted into heat.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for those_eyes
#22 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on precrisis he is giving you dat 2 piece.

Avatar image for deathhero61
#23 Posted by DeathHero61 (18675 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw it. Tag me for votes.

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#24 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio

Moar Counters.

Assuming Buu can sense anything besides Ki, Quasar and his constructs are composed of Quantum energy. Considering Quasar and Nova used this tactic to confuse an ability ranging far greater than energy sense I doubt Buu would see thing any different.

Quasar is alive, so he has Ki to sense. Constructs are not alive.

Fast as Quasar can operate them which is FTL. I would also rate Quasar's operational speed faster than Buu so there isn't Quasar or constructs can't blast buu.

I've shown Goku escaping Light at point blank range, Buu has blitzed people superior to SSJ3 Goku. Merely FTL won't cut it.

Unless your scan is a mistranslation Piccolo stated burn all the pieces. I'm not seeing a difference in burning materials through pure heat or friction when the end result turns Buu into smoke.

I guess.

At 27 million degrees °F there wouldn't be any smoke. Quasar would be doing so indefinitely so Buu can't reform keeping him an incapacitated state.

Quasar will eventually run out of energy, Buu could just destroy the star rendering him with finite energy.

Those scans where to show Quasar can absorb a star. Quasar alone currently operates with the energy of a star supplying the power necessary to transmute two stars about to go Nova. Quasar deciding he needs star level heat wouldn't be hard for him to produce on his own and sustain with the Quantum bands alone.

Star Level heat won't be enough.

I don' think Buu comes close in having the edge in combat speed. Fighting skill OK. Although I'm not seeing any feat you've shown stated or scaled come close to crossing the universe to punch someone in the face. I'm not stating fly at them to bull rush The scan shows Quasar's fist in position to punch without slowing.

Also Quasar doesn't need to wear Buu down Quasar has cosmic awareness so once he find a specific energy Buu's vulnerable to he won't let up.

That's just a bullrush, plus he's constantly accelerating when he's crossing distances like that.

Doesn't mater if he won't let up, I can punch water relentlessly but it doesn't do anything. That's how Buu's regeneration is.

While I'm convinced Quasar is faster, debating if Buu can tag Quasar changes nothing. Physically attacking Quasar is inconsequential and blasting energy at Quasar isn't a tactic that would win a war of attrition.

I still need scans of this intangibility you're claiming.

Once he runs out of energy and is reverted to base form Buu can tag him easily.

How would he deny Quasar an ability of the quantum bands? For that matter how would he notice there at Pluto one of the farthest planetoids in the solar system? With that Quasar isn't limited to the sun he can absorb a star as needed range isn't a factor.

Quasar stood there for multiple panels absorbing some of one star. Has he every even done this in a fight in character?

Adjust to what exactly? Not using energy doesn't stop Quasar form draining it. That's as if Wolverine decided not to pop his claws against Magneto it doesn't change the out come.

Quasar can't drain Ki.

While most of this has been addressed there is a misconception that Quasar will weaken using energy, which I should clear up. At the time Quasar was revived Phyla-Vell had the quantum bands but she dies. Which is why Quasar fly across the universe to punch Maelstrom in the face, but he retrieves them as the rightful owner. Now the Quantum Bands is a realm (dimension) of potential energy and has been stated by abstracts as a universe, so there isn't a lack of power Quasar can pull form.

Lastly Quasar blasting Buu with his own energy is quite enough for Quasar's destructive capacity. Whatever you rate Buu in terms of energy is what Quasar can send back but converted into heat.

Okay, does he tire? I still need proof that none of my attacks will work. Even then I don't do NLF and I believe Buu will outlast Quasar even if none of his attacks would work on his energy form.

Buu could dodge it easily, as I said once he learns that he can redirect his Ki attacks he won't use them.

@mr_ingenuity

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#25 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock:

Rebuttal II

Quasar is alive, so he has Ki to sense. Constructs are not alive.

Quasar's mind inhabits an energy form, that's not a conventional way of living & I'm doubtful Buu has encountered life in this form.

I've shown Goku escaping Light at point blank range, Buu has blitzed people superior to SSJ3 Goku. Merely FTL won't cut it.

What's faster than "faster than light"? In case you can't answer that you don't need to. Quasar is faster than Buu & Goku by feats so equating Goku to Quasar doesn't add up.

Think about it Quasar waits to be sucked into a black hole while moving at the speed of light. Stating "Impact with the event horizon nanoseconds away --" You haven't shown anything close in comparison.

Quasar will eventually run out of energy, Buu could just destroy the star rendering him with finite energy.

Quasar running out of energy is considerably doubtful with his feats. Quasar isn't limited to one star and has the Quantum Zone to continue his assault. Even if Quasar ignored (CIS) the many sources of energy at his disposal, Buu would still get the worst of it, because Buu is a living energy source.

Why would Buu destroy a star millions of miles away because a character attacks burning him?

Star Level heat won't be enough.

You have no counter for burning nor have you shown on panel resistance/durability. But now you're disputing the level of heat necessary. I find that inconsistent to what you've shown which is Buu regenerating form smoke after being burned.

That's just a bullrush, plus he's constantly accelerating when he's crossing distances like that.

Nothing about those pages show bull rushing and just to confirm that I'm correct in my assessment here's the next page. Quasar is shown punching Maelstrom with Maelstrom unable to land any hit himself.

No Caption Provided

.

Also you stating Quasar accelerating to cross that distance has no bearing on the feat itself since Quasar didn't stop or decelerate. With that I've shown all the pages and panels so you're statement is no more than a assumption.

Doesn't mater if he won't let up, I can punch water relentlessly but it doesn't do anything. That's how Buu's regeneration is.

I would hate to think you take your aggression out on water but since you stated it let's understand why this analogy doesn't work. Assuming you're adding enough heat to water it will boil at 212°F, now add more heat & water will evaporate. But why stop there you can take all those water molecules and send them into the sun adding more fuel for fusion however minute that may be.

So what we should take away here is that at a certain level of heat matter becomes fuel for fusion that includes Buu. So if you can show me Buu in a star's core then I'll concede that point & move on. Quasar still has multiple ways of taking Buu but heat seems to be the easiest to produce in large quantities while being just as effective.

I still need scans of this intangibility you're claiming.

I assume you misunderstood what these scans where attempting to convey, so I'll quote lines from the scans and evaluate the context.

"The currents and gravimetric pressures of parallel galaxies and timelines overlapping and grinding against one another. This is like a wound in space time shrapnel and debris pulled into it from countless realities." Form understanding Quasar is stating gravityform galaxies is enough cause them to overlap or crash into each other across universes. I think this is backed up by his next statement.

"I see worlds torn loose from the galaxies that sired them, tumbling into the maelstrom." So the galaxies inside the fault are being torn apart, seems like the simple answer.

"I hear timelines creaking as they slide against each other. I hear light fracturing and matter combusting." Not sure how Quasar hears all of this, but we have to take into account he is in a rip in reality he's also energy, so hearing works differently in this context. I would say the most important part of this is matter combusting. Quasar is flying through with no ill effect as I've stated & none being shown on panel. Form what I can concluded the galaxies that are being destroyed all around Quasar but none of this is even remotely affecting him. If Quasar is being affected he's not stating it or showing it.

Quasar either durable, intangible or a combination of both. But you're not going to tell me Buu can affect or punch apart galaxies. You could counter with Buu can scream a hole in a dimension but to that I state so what. Quasar is traversing a rip in reality I doubt Buu can compare.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Once he runs out of energy and is reverted to base form Buu can tag him easily.

Quasar has no base form his energy form isn't a transformation it's a state he can enter when he has no body. What you should be arguing Buu can hit Quasar with enough energy to disperse Quasar's form. Although I doubt we can reach an agreement Buu has the means to do so.

Quasar stood there for multiple panels absorbing some of one star. Has he every even done this in a fight in character?

Quasar can absorb a star during battle having stated that to Silver Surfer but he usually opts for draining his opponent's energy (Silver Surfer, Phoenix) . Which means Quasar will drain Buu to supply his energy needs. Plus I've already shown Quasar operating with star level energy without adding any through absorption.

Quasar can't drain Ki.

I was waiting for this but didn't think it would come so soon. Before I detail why Quasar will absorb Buu's Ki lets go through some facts about Ki. We know Ki can be drained/absorbed and transferred. This has been shown through characters getting weaker as their fights progress, Android 19 has drained/absorbed Goku's Ki, and Goku has transferred Ki to Frieza. All things considered Ki itself hasn't shown any resistance to being drained.

As for Quasar he's shown to absorb life force, draw out Adam Warlock's energy (until the soul gem is used), & psionic energy from the Phoenix force.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

The Quantum bands has absorbed energy from souls.

No Caption Provided

.

The Quantum bands has scanned nearly ever energy signature in marvel and that reason Quasar has been able to absorb energy only experiencing it for the first time. Combine that with Quasar's cosmic awareness and draining Ki becomes more plausible than you simply stating "Quasar can't drain ki."

Okay, does he tire? I still need proof that none of my attacks will work. Even then I don't do NLF and I believe Buu will outlast Quasar even if none of his attacks would work on his energy form.

Quasar doesn't tire in energy form although it has been shown without the Quantum Bands his energy form can be dispersed. Although with the Quantum Bands, as he is here I doubt it, because he will simply add more energy to himself. Quasar will always have time to do energize by accessing the Quantum Zone.

But if you're going to argue Buu can disperse Quasar he'll need to output more energy than Quasar can absorb, block and dodge.

Buu could dodge it easily, as I said once he learns that he can redirect his Ki attacks he won't use them.

How will Buu dodge an omnidirectional blast if Buu is attack within close proximity with Quasar out pacing Buu?

As I've stated before not using energy attacks doesn't stop Quasar from absorbing energy. Quasar was dodging Silver Surfer's energy attacks while simultaneously draining the power cosmic. Quasar out right drained Adam Warlock's energy form his body, & Quasar has drained Nova, Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill & Ronan The Accuser with others to protect them form a blast strong enough to kill them. Why is Buu any different? I seriously doubt you have a reason.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#26 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock: Not sure how long you want to keep this going but you have last post. So when ever you're ready allow me a closing post.

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#27 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8704 posts) - - Show Bio

More Counters!

Quasar's mind inhabits an energy form, that's not a conventional way of living & I'm doubtful Buu has encountered life in this form.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that everything alive has Ki...

That's faster than "faster than light"? In case you can't answer that you don't need to. Quasar is faster than Buu & Goku by feats so equating Goku to Quasar doesn't add up.

Think about it Quasar waits to be sucked into a black hole while moving at the speed of light. Stating "Impact with the event horizon nanoseconds away --" You haven't shown anything close in comparison.

But Quasar isn't faster as I've shown. Namek Goku dodged point blank light. and Buu blitzed his SSJ3 Buu Saga self. You've shown Lightspeed travel and maybe lightspeed reactions but nothing superior.

Unless we're trying to say Namek Saga Goku = SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku, when the DB encyclopedia (Diaizenshuu) states SSJ3 is 400x base form, and we already know DBZ Characters' speed constantly increases along with their power.

No Caption Provided

Quasar running out of energy is considerably doubtful with his feats. Quasar isn't limited to one star and has the Quantum Zone to continue his assault. Even if Quasar ignored (CIS) the many sources of energy at his disposal, Buu would still get the worst of it, because Buu is a living energy source.

Why would Buu destroy a star millions of miles away because a character attacks burning him?

He still has no way to take Buu's Ki which isn't even on the EM spectrum unless Buu puts it in that form. If he see's Quasar charging up from the sun like he did in that scan you posted he'll surely destroy it.

You have no counter for burning nor have you shown on panel resistance/durability. But now you're disputing the level of heat necessary. I find that inconsistent to what you've shown which is Buu regenerating form smoke after being burned.

I suppose so since his burning feats aren't quantifiable. I guess the question now is can Quasar tag Buu with a strong enough heat attack, which I doubt he can.

Nothing about those pages show bull rushing and just to confirm that I'm correct in my assessment here's the next page. Quasar is shown punching Maelstrom with Maelstrom unable to land any hit himself.

If you rush across a distance and then hit somebody while still going that's a bullrush. Those scans aren't bullrushing but that still wouldn't count as a FTL combat feat as he stopped his acceleration.

Also you stating Quasar accelerating to cross that distance has no bearing on the feat itself since Quasar didn't stop or decelerate. With that I've shown all the pages and panels so you're statement is no more than a assumption.

Yeah he did. He bullrushed him then stopped to fight him.

I would hate to think you take your aggression out on water but since you stated it let's understand why this analogy doesn't work. Assuming you're adding enough heat to water it will boil at 212°F, now add more heat & water will evaporate. But why stop there you can take all those water molecules and send them into the sun adding more fuel for fusion however minute that may be.

So what we should take away here is that at a certain level of heat matter becomes fuel for fusion that includes Buu. So if you can show me Buu in a star's core then I'll concede that point & move on. Quasar still has multiple ways of taking Buu but heat seems to be the easiest to produce in large quantities while being just as effective.

Point taken. But do you really think throughout the years off Buu destroying that galaxy he didn't encounter any large sun explosions or anything? Doubtful.

Regardless Buu can still dodge any harmful attack, also I'd like to see scans of Quasar absorbing stars and using star level heat in a fight.

I assume you misunderstood what these scans where attempting to convey, so I'll quote lines from the scans and evaluate the context.

"The currents and gravimetric pressures of parallel galaxies and timelines overlapping and grinding against one another. This is like a wound in space time shrapnel and debris pulled into it from countless realities." Form understanding Quasar is stating gravityform galaxies is enough cause them to overlap or crash into each other across universes. I think this is backed up by his next statement.

"I see worlds torn loose from the galaxies that sired them, tumbling into the maelstrom." So the galaxies inside the fault are being torn apart, seems like the simple answer.

"I hear timelines creaking as they slide against each other. I hear light fracturing and matter combusting." Not sure how Quasar hears all of this, but we have to take into account he is in a rip in reality he's also energy, so hearing works differently in this context. I would say the most important part of this is matter combusting. Quasar is flying through with no ill effect as I've stated & none being shown on panel. Form what I can concluded the galaxies that are being destroyed all around Quasar but none of this is even remotely affecting him. If Quasar is being affected he's not stating it or showing it.

Quasar either durable, intangible or a combination of both. But you're not going to tell me Buu can affect or punch apart galaxies. You could counter with Buu can scream a hole in a dimension but to that I state so what. Quasar is traversing a rip in reality I doubt Buu can compare.

Quasar traversing a rip in reality is still unquantifiable and doesn't show that physical attacks will pass through him as you have previously stated. Buu has torn time and space and jumped through fine, though you could say it was different than the one Quasar went through. Hulk has broken reality and so has Superboy Prime, but the point is those kinds of feats aren't really quantifiable and it's speculation at best to try to put a label on it.

Quasar has no base form his energy form isn't a transformation it's a state he can enter when he has no body. What you should be arguing Buu can hit Quasar with enough energy to disperse Quasar's form. Although I doubt we can reach an agreement Buu has the means to do so.

I'm still confused on this energy form. If all he needs to do is hit him with enough energy then that will be simple as he's destroyed a galaxy over a few years, so you're going to need to show Quasar tanking FTL Solar System busting attacks consistently, and if you try to say he'll manipulate them you're going to need to show he can manipulate attacks with that level of power and speed and multiple at once. He has tagged characters with MFTL reactions and combat speeds with his blasts casually before so it shouldn't be a problem to tag Quasar.

Quasar can absorb a star during battle having stated that to Silver Surfer but he usually opts for draining his opponent's energy (Silver Surfer, Phoenix) . Which means Quasar will drain Buu to supply his energy needs. Plus I've already shown Quasar operating with star level energy without adding any through absorption.

So he's never actually done it during a battle and it's not really confirmed if he can absorb Ki that Buu has.

I was waiting for this but didn't think it would come so soon. Before I detail why Quasar will absorb Buu's Ki lets go through some facts about Ki. We know Ki can be drained/absorbed and transferred. This has been shown through characters getting weaker as their fights progress, Android 19 has drained/absorbed Goku's Ki, and Goku has transferred Ki to Frieza. All things considered Ki itself hasn't shown any resistance to being drained.

As for Quasar he's shown to absorb life force, draw out Adam Warlock's energy (until the soul gem is used), & psionic energy from the Phoenix force.

The Quantum bands has scanned nearly ever energy signature in marvel and that reason Quasar has been able to absorb energy only experiencing it for the first time. Combine that with Quasar's cosmic awareness and draining Ki becomes more plausible than you simply stating "Quasar can't drain ki."

He still has nothing to suggest he'd be able to drain something from a foreign universe and something that isn't even on the EM spectrum. He might be able to absorb the blasts but he won't be able to extract the Ki energy from Buu.

Quasar doesn't tire in energy form although it has been shown without the Quantum Bands his energy form can be dispersed. Although with the Quantum Bands, as he is here I doubt it, because he will simply add more energy to himself. Quasar will always have time to do energize by accessing the Quantum Zone.

But if you're going to argue Buu can disperse Quasar he'll need to output more energy than Quasar can absorb, block and dodge.

First part is a NLF, second part Buu can do easily.

How will Buu dodge an omnidirectional blast if Buu is attack within close proximity with Quasar out pacing Buu?

As I've stated before not using energy attacks doesn't stop Quasar from absorbing energy. Quasar was dodging Silver Surfer's energy attacks while simultaneously draining the power cosmic. Quasar out right drained Adam Warlock's energy form his body, & Quasar has drained Nova, Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill & Ronan The Accuser with others to protect them form a blast strong enough to kill them. Why is Buu any different? I seriously doubt you have a reason.

Quasar isn't outpacing anybody, he can blast back the attack with his own attack or simply outrun it into it's dispersed. If he gets mad enough he'll scream at it and it'll go through a hole in space and time.

Like I said there's nothing to suggest he can drain something that isn't from his universe and isn't on the EM spectrum unless made in the form of an energy wave.

@mr_ingenuity Conclusions please.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#28 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock:

Rebuttal III

It still doesn't take away from the fact that everything alive has Ki...

Your argument that everything has Ki only works in the established parameters. Once we move on to beings completely composed of energy (excluding Ki) then we work by a different set of rules. You could argue material beings have Ki but Quasar is an energy being, confirmed to be composed of quantum energy multiple times. I'm not sure where Ki factors into quantum energy without reaching.

But Quasar isn't faster as I've shown. Namek Goku dodged point blank light. and Buu blitzed his SSJ3 Buu Saga self. You've shown Lightspeed travel and maybe lightspeed reactions but nothing superior.

What have you shown though? Because form what I've shown Quasar has nanosecond operational speed consistently, reacts at faster than light speed & has flown across the universe in minutes. Not seeing how Ki blast compares to Quasar reacting to a solar flare in an instant or how Goku compares to nanosecond operational speed which is quantifiably faster than light.

Unless we're trying to say Namek Saga Goku = SSJ3 Buu Saga Goku, when the DB encyclopedia (Diaizenshuu) states SSJ3 is 400x base form, and we already know DBZ Characters' speed constantly increases along with their power.

I'm in no way trying to debate Goku's power level or his transformations because it's a tired useless argument not worth my effort. I'm debating exactly what you've shown, comparing notes to reach a foregone conclusion. You've shown Goku dodging an explosion after having been caught by an attack named light ball. That's questionable speed to say the least. You've also shown a scan of Vegeta stating his speed improved due to his increased power level. Which isn't unquantifiable considering Vegeta's speed isn't measured before or after the increased power level. I find it silly how you can state Buu is certifiably faster form power level with scale, when I've shown Quasar is quantifiably faster with feats.

If this was the other way around I would have already conceded.

He still has no way to take Buu's Ki which isn't even on the EM spectrum unless Buu puts it in that form. If he see's Quasar charging up from the sun like he did in that scan you posted he'll surely destroy it.

Where are you getting this form? The power cosmic isn't on the EM spectrum, the Odin force isn't, or the Phoenix force but Quasar drained them. The Quantum Bands scan & measure energy in Oblivion's realm the dimension of nonexistence. I'm certain you're not going to state Oblivion the abstract of nonexistence can be detected on the EM spectrum.

In case you need backstory on why Quasar is here Quasar unintentionally hit himself with the Ultimate nullifier nullifying himself out of existence.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

I suppose so since his burning feats aren't quantifiable. I guess the question now is can Quasar tag Buu with a strong enough heat attack, which I doubt he can.

The temperature will reach is easily quantified. Quasar is an energy manipulator that can absorb & convert energy into different forms. Such as when he absorbed the star and converted into light that enveloped planets or when he took a blast form Thanos converting it into a construct. Quasar can increase temperatures by simply adding more energy, I've shown Quasar alone operating with star level energy and Quasar turning his energy form into heat to vaporize Skrull's. Concentrating all the power of the Quantum Bands, the sun or Buu's Ki into heat would easily reach temps in the millions of degrees.

No Caption Provided

.

.

No Caption Provided

.

Buu has no durability to state he could tank that level of heat so it would only take one shot. With Quasar being faster in travel and operational speed is proof Buu cannot dodge, further proof is Quasar attacking with an omnidirectional blast making sure there is no where to dodge.

If you rush across a distance and then hit somebody while still going that's a bullrush. Those scans aren't bullrushing but that still wouldn't count as a FTL combat feat as he stopped his acceleration.

I would agree if Quasar wasn't throwing punches while showing no sign of slowing. Quasar isn't shown slamming into Maelstrom such as Thor or Hulk would do. The scans show Quasar throwing punches even if we take into account it's linear that still counts as a straight line blitz not a bullrush. Also Quasar energy form & constructs operates as fast he thinks, which is repeatedly shown over the years.

If you don't understand why Quasar scans qualify as a straight line blitz here are some examples.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

I'm not sure why you contest if it faster than light that feat alone puts him above anything Goku or Buu has ever done.

Yeah he did. He bullrushed him then stopped to fight him.

There nothing in those scans that even hints at Quasar slowing down until both characters hit the ground. What you're debating isn't supported in the scans & you haven't shown any counter evidence to claim it's inconsistent. So easily dismissed a speculation.

Already addressed bull rushing.

Point taken. But do you really think throughout the years off Buu destroying that galaxy he didn't encounter any large sun explosions or anything? Doubtful.

The chance that Buu was caught in a star doesn't qualify as a feat.

Regardless Buu can still dodge any harmful attack, also I'd like to see scans of Quasar absorbing stars and using star level heat in a fight.

Quasar has easily absorbed Firelord's flames I find it silly to think he can't reproduce star level heat. To put into preservative how hot Firelord's flames are, Silver Surfer can tank the heat of a star but opted to absorb & reflect the flames. Noting the heat is made by Galactus' alien science, confirming Firelord doesn't produce conventional flames.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

No Caption Provided

.

Quasar traversing a rip in reality is still unquantifiable and doesn't show that physical attacks will pass through him as you have previously stated. Buu has torn time and space and jumped through fine, though you could say it was different than the one Quasar went through. Hulk has broken reality and so has Superboy Prime, but the point is those kinds of feats aren't really quantifiable and it's speculation at best to try to put a label on it.

I don't see it as unidentifiable considering galaxies are being destroyed. But maybe I should have went with these feats for the start. Quasar passes through matter just fine in the first scan reentering his body to revive himself. So it's clear he's intangible. Quasar & Maelstrom fall into a black hole, Maelstrom being composed of matter is crushed but Quasar escapes fine with no harm done. It's later confirmed (by Eon) Quasar accomplished this feat due to being incorporeal. Also the black hole was confirmed to be eating up the universe by many characters including Abstracts, so no doubt multi galaxy in power.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Note I'm using the second feat because it's inline with Quasar being unaffected by multi galaxy level forces shown in his modern energy form.

I'm still confused on this energy form. If all he needs to do is hit him with enough energy then that will be simple as he's destroyed a galaxy over a few years, so you're going to need to show Quasar tanking FTL Solar System busting attacks consistently, and if you try to say he'll manipulate them you're going to need to show he can manipulate attacks with that level of power and speed and multiple at once. He has tagged characters with MFTL reactions and combat speeds with his blasts casually before so it shouldn't be a problem to tag Quasar.

You cite this high end feat but you've yet to show Buu destroy so much as a star. The context for this feat is lacking, and all that's left is Buu being the character credited with it taking years. From my preservative your in no position to state what I need to show when I've supported my debate one every point with a relevant scan.

Your argument now is Buu will barrage Quasar with Solar System busting attacks. But you haven't shown Buu destroying one star giving any hint or proof Buu has the ability to continuously uses that level of attack.

Before you make this about me. I've shown Quasar converting energy, using heat, absorbing energy form characters far more powerful than himself or Buu for that matter & having star level energy feats. Everything fits from what I've shown to what I've claimed. I've yet to so much as claim Quasar is a planet buster although he's clearly above planetary in energy manipulation.

No this isn't me trying to shy away form providing further proof that Quasar can survive or absorb what ever Buu sends his way. The Quantum Bands have protected its users form Cosmic Level Threats consistently which includes the Phoenix force (above), Lord Mar-Vell, Maelstrom & Galactus.

Quasar survived a Blast form Maelstrom capable of basting him outside of the Multiverse where reality 616 is the prime universe sending him to a completely different Multiverse where The New Universe or Earth-148611.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Annihilus survived a mutli star-system (three and counting) blast from Galactus while being protected by the Quantum Bands.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Even If you dismiss this as a feat for Annihilus Quasar has survived worst & I've already shown him tanking the Sun going nova.

So he's never actually done it during a battle and it's not really confirmed if he can absorb Ki that Buu has.

No He hasn't but it a statement accompanied by feats. What is confirmed is that Quasar has absorbed move forms of energy than Ki can be classified as psionic, power cosmic, souls, life force, Odin Force (which covers magic), & Nova Force to name a few. What isn't confirmed is Buu resisting draining. Which mean Buu is the character that needs feats not Quasar.

He still has nothing to suggest he'd be able to drain something from a foreign universe and something that isn't even on the EM spectrum. He might be able to absorb the blasts but he won't be able to extract the Ki energy from Buu.

Now you're just making things up while trying to have it two ways. The limiting the Quantum Bands to energy found on the EM spectrum a baseless claim. It's also odd how you've stated "fact that everything alive has Ki" and that transcends universal boundaries. Which wasn't the first time because you've stated Buu could absorb Quasar "by detaching a part of his body mid fight and using it to absorb." But your set Quasar can't absorb Ki form Buu unless "Buu puts it in that form" & maybe when Buu blasts it.

The optimal chose would have been conceding (which you've have done at times) & asserting Buu is beyond Quasar's limits to completely drain (which he isn't). But no your debate is to straddling the fence and hope no one notices. But I have and I hope you understand the error of your ways.

First part is a NLF, second part Buu can do easily.

You're using that term too loosely for it to actually apply here. Contrary to your belief I'm not making up limits & Quasar has stated something to the same effect. After he expends too much energy he had trouble reforming and makes no mention of ever tiring. Logically if he can expends too much energy he can also be overwhelmed by too much energy, something I've made mention of. After he reforms he states he feels energized. It doesn't take a leap in logic to understand. Think of it in this way, you rehydrate the dehydrated by giving them water, then you can re-energize an energy being by adding more energy.

No Caption Provided

.

The important thing to note here Quasar at the time didn't have the Quantum Bands that would allowing him energy manipulation and absorption. So everything he did was at the expense of himself or his energy form. Clearly he doesn't have that working against him in the battle. So there isn't any reason he can't continue.

Quasar isn't outpacing anybody, he can blast back the attack with his own attack or simply outrun it into it's dispersed. If he gets mad enough he'll scream at it and it'll go through a hole in space and time.

There's many note worthy feats to prove Quasar is faster in combat speed but above all travel speed which means Buu can never fly far enough or fast enough to get away.

While I do have an opinion on the screaming to disperse the heat, I'm not going to state it because I changes nothing. Quasar can teleport and attack with omnidirectional heat. Buu doesn't have the durability to survive one attack, which is all that's needed. Buu won't have numerous of chances to reform this isn't Dragon Ball.

Like I said there's nothing to suggest he can drain something that isn't from his universe and isn't on the EM spectrum unless made in the form of an energy wave.

You've been wrong before so I suggest a change from your current course of action.

Closing

I don't do summaries for every post so I like to reestablish the debated points at the end of the debate. So this is considered optional.

Since you're strategy calls for to out last Quasar then Buu has the edge in simplicity of attacks. But Buu won't be any where near effective. Quasar has many ways of evasion Quantum Jumping, being faster or confusing Buu. Quasar's energy form also makes him incorporeal to physical attacks.

Quasar won't be far behind using the Quantum Bands to cycle through every available energy using Cosmic Awareness to understand what Buu's pink putty body is vulnerable to.

Form there it's who can render the final blow the quickest. While Buu can ramp his energy attacks up to solar system level Quasar has survived far worst. Combined with evasion he's never in any danger. This still stands even if you don't agree Quasar can absorb Ki.

Agreeing Quasar can absorb Ki makes this an entirely different fight. Quasar will amp his durability and damage output with Buu's Ki regardless if he attacks. Meaning Buu has been effectively striped of anyway to damage Quasar.

While Quasar has at least one debated option to one shot Buu. Considering Buu cannot stop Quasar form Quantum Jumping in attack range allows Quasar to always hit his mark. Adding to that an omnidirectional blast the is above planetary in scale makes it implausible to escape.

The key Quasar winning isn't killing Buu or even hurting Buu (if Buu can regenerate form atoms) but never allowing Buu a change to regenerate or attack. So what I'm claiming form the beginning is Incapacitation.

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#30 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

@precrisisbardock: I see no reason to let this die at the end of the debate.

You may post you rebuttal and closer or we can go to votes.