CaV: Percy Jackson (SG) vs Spyro The Dragon (AG) -- VOTING OPEN

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#1  Edited By SupremeGeneration

Perseus Jackson (SupremeG)

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VS

Spyro The Dragon (AmethystG)

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Rules

  • Morals are on, bloodlust is off
  • Both of the combatants are in-character
  • No previous knowledge; random encounter
  • Standard gear and power levels
  • Riptide will affect Spyro
  • Win condition is that the other can no longer fight

Location

No Caption Provided
  • Opponents start 100 feet from each other, 20 feet from the beach

CaV Rules

  • This is a friendly debate between two Viners, do not interfere. If you wish to give your opinion, do so in a PM with both members of the debate or in the voting phase.
  • You do not have to say "T4V" (or anything similar) in order to qualify to vote; we do, however, ask that you give a fair amount of reasoning.
  • Voting is based on who the better debater was, not who you personally think would win the battle.
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#4  Edited By SupremeGeneration

@amethystgravity: I don't mind who starts. I should be able to get something up before the end of the day, but if you have something up by then we can roll from there.

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#5  Edited By SupremeGeneration
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Perseus Jackson, son of the sea god

Mini-Bio

Percy Jackson was 12 when he discovered he was the son of Poseidon, god of the sea. He embarked on a quest to prevent the Third World War (Olympian style) and has since grown to be the most powerful demigod of the century.

To get an idea of how powerful Percy is in-verse:

"Percy is the most powerful demigod I've ever met. No offense to you guys, but it's true." -- House of Hades

-- From Nico Di Angelo, son of Hades. Nico has been to Camp Half-Blood, the Greek demigod residence, and Camp Jupiter, the Roman demigod residence. He's met Jason, son of Jupiter/Zeus - Hazel, daughter of Pluto/Hades - Bianca, daughter of Hades - and Thalia, daughter of Zeus. He's spent a lot of time in the Underworld as well. He's basically met all the most powerful demigods of this time, and considers Percy the most powerful demigod.

Until that morning, [Hazel's] brother Nico had been the most powerful demigod she knew... But she knew Nico was more dangerous than Reyna, or Octavian, or maybe even Jason.

Then she'd met Percy.

At first, when she saw him stumbling up the highway with the old lady in his arms, Hazel thought he might be a god in disguise. Even though he was beat up, dirty, and stooped with exhaustion, he'd had an aura of power. -- Son of Neptune

-- From Hazel Levesque, daughter of Pluto. Percy stumbled upon the Roman camp, and Hazel confused Percy for a god due to his aura of power.

Now that the less important things are out of the way, allow me to get into physicals stats:

Speed

To begin with is ComicVine's bread and overrated butter, speed:

Reaction-wise, I'm saving the better feat for next time but for now, Percy is an adept arrow timer, capable of slashing entire volleys of them out of the air:

""Get in!" I yelled. I uncapped Riptide and slashed the first volley of arrows out of the air"

Sea of Monsters page 133

Notice how he uncapped his sword after the arrows were fired.

The second Amazon they met was not so friendly. She was dressed in full armor, blocking the throne-room entrance. She spun her spear with lightning speed, but this time Percy was ready. He drew Riptide and stepped into battle. As the Amazon jabbed at him, he sidestepped, cut her spear shaft in half, and slammed the hilt of his sword against her helmet.

Son of Neptune page 340

Percy dodged a spear described as being "lightning speed" (and this statement was made by Hazel, who can pretty handily control a super/hyper-sonic horse mid-run). Based on the text, Percy managed to draw his sword while the Amazon was mid-swing, which given the description (and who said it) it must have at the very least been blur speeds. Of course, that's up for interpretation, but I have more evidence if needed.

So we have an arrow-timing, FTE combatant. That's dandy and all, but how the heck is he supposed to hurt Spyro?

Strength/Sword Skills:

When it comes to Percy's swordmanship, he's no slouch, as you'll see later on. Before we get into that, let's look at the strength of his swings:

In desperation I uncapped Riptide and slashed at the fountain, cleaving it in two. Salt water spilled everywhere, and the great stone font crashed to the floor in pieces.

Battle of the Labyrinth

Percy has shown the capacity to slice clean through stone in a single slash. I dunno if it'll do the same to Spyro, but it should at the very least hurt him. As for skills, I showed him taking down an Amazon earlier on. To further this, though:

No way was I going to hurt him. I didn't need a weapon for this. I stepped inside his strike and grabbed his wrist, slamming it against the wall. His sword clattered out of his hand.

Last Olympian

Percy easily disarms another demigod in a single move, albeit a scared demigod. However, one of Percy's single best showings has to come from his battle with Ares:

[Ares] cleaved downward at my head, but I wasn't there.

My body thought for me. The water seemed to push me into the air and I catapulted over him, slashing as I came down. But Ares was just as quick. He twisted, and the strike that should've caught him directly in the spine was deflected off the end of his sword hilt.

He grinned. "Not bad, not bad."

His sword had a reach several feet longer than Riptide...

He knocked my blade out of my hands and kicked me in the chest. I went airborne, twenty, maybe thirty feet. I would've broken my back if I hadn't crashed into the soft sand of a sand dune...

My senses were working overtime...

I could see where Ares was tensing. I could tell which way he would strike. At the same time, I was aware of Annabeth and Grover, thirty feet to my left...

He slashed. I deflected his blade. I got close enough to strike, tried to fake him out with a feint, but my blow was knocked aside. The waves were hitting me in the back now. Ares was up to his thighs, wading in after me.

I felt the rhythm of the sea, the waves growing larger as the tide rolled in, and suddenly I had an idea. Little waves, I thought. And the waves behind me seemed to recede. I was holding back the tide by force of will, but tension was building, like carbonation behind a cork...

I released the tide and jumped, rocketing straight over Ares on a wave.

A six foot wall of water smashed him full in the face, leaving him cursing and sputtering with a mouth full of seaweed. I landed behind him with a splash and feinted toward his head, as I done before. He turned in time to raise his sword, but this time he was disoriented, he didn't anticipate the trick. I changed direction, lunged to the side, and stabbed Riptide straight down in the water, sending the point through the god's heel.

The Lightning Thief, PDF pages 341-344

Before I break the fight down, there is some context you should know:

  1. Ares, the god of war, did in fact admit he was holding back. However, he still wanted to kill the young demigod, so either way it's an impressive feat.
  2. Percy gets amps when in water, which he started with during this fight. These include strength, skill, and speed. The water also grants him somewhat of a healing factor.
  3. This is Percy's first quest, only days after entering Camp Half-Blood. This means he's had an incredibly low amount of formal CQC training from fellow demigods and Chiron, which only adds to the impressiveness of the feat.

Ares doesn't unfortunately have feats of his own, but his children have some accolades of later on in the series being the only ones capable of standing up to Percy in the training arena and being Camp Half-Blood's elite attack force, so much so that the less than 40 demigods of the cabin turned the entire tide of an entire battle simply through their presence.

We can also scale Ares to his named children. One of them, Clarisse, legit solo'd a drakon that a heavily amped Percy was having trouble with (albeit Percy did damage take out an eye prior). Typing that, I remember now that Ares actually does have a feat other than Percy; he defeated Luke Castellan in single combat:

Luke's smile wavered. "I ... I got overconfident. Zeus sent out his sons and daughters to find the stolen bolt- Artemis, Apollo, my father, Hermes. But it was Ares who caught me. I could have beaten him, but I wasn't careful enough. He disarmed me, took the items of power, threat-ened to return them to Olympus and burn me alive

Lightning Thief PDF pg 381

You might be wondering why that's impressive. Luke Castellan has been described as the "the best swordsman in the last 300 years" (Lightning Thief page 108), his skills being capable of beating Percy four books later in The Last Olympian (though the body he inhabited at the time was byfar physically superior to his own).

I know it's a fair amount of scaling, but I'll have more direct feats in the next post, I promise.

As for the actual feat, you see that an untrained Percy with water boosts (imagine what current Percy's water boosts would do, now that's he one of the best swordsmen ever) was fighting on just below Ares levels. Aside from scaling and knowing that Ares is far superior to his children and the fact that Ares is the bloody god of war, there's the fact that he's lived for literal millennium, thousands of years of experience.

So I've got a stone-breaking demigod that fights at FTE speeds and keeps up with supreme beings of combat. Now I know Spyro can dish the damage, so let me get right into:

Durability

I'm going to go ahead and try to pull out most of the stops for this section, simply so that I can reference them later.

In terms of blunt force, this is probably one of Percy's best feats (accomplished twice):

"I swung my sword, and Atlas knocked me aside with the shaft of his javelin. I flew through the air and slammed into a brick wall...

I tried to dodge, but the javelin hit me caught me in the chest and sent me flying like a rag doll. I slammed into the ground, my head spinning."

The Titan's Curse page 267

Percy takes blows from Atlas's javelin twice in a single page. Atlas has feats of, in the same fight, opening fissures in the mountain just by slamming his javelin and casually one-shotting Zoe with a backhand, not even his javelin.

Now all demi-gods are at the very least peak human, but the Hunters of Artemis are far more active than your usual demigods. Because of this, their physical condition would logically be higher than a regular demigod. She's also the daughter of a titan, not a god, and titans are generally superior to gods due to being older.

However, to make these two all the more impressive is that Percy then proceeded to literally lift up the sky single-handedly which although not as impressive as it sounds still adds more to the feats.

Nonetheless, a very impressive two-feat for Percy which means Spyro will struggle to hurt him with blunt force. When in comes to piercing (I'm looking at you, claws and teeth!):

"I had a few scratches, but nothing major. I pulled a feather arrow out of my arm. It hadn't gone in very deep. As long as it wasn't poison I would be fine."

Percy Jackson and the Stolen Chariot page 7 (Kindle)

Yep, arrows are minimal problems for the son of the sea god. Sure, the arrow didn't go all the way in or anything, but just 9 pages later (same Kindle) he proceeded to stomp a giant sea serpent while still using his powers pretty awesomely. But perhaps more impressively...

"Each time a demon disintegrated, Percy felt a heavier sense of dread as another curse settled on him. Some were harsh and painful: a stabbing in the gut, a burning sensation like he was blasted by a blowtorch. Some were subtle: a chill in the blood, an uncontrollable twitch in his right eye."

House of Hades page 237 (Kindle)

Percy, while heavily weakend in Tartarus as it drains demigods, is fighting arai, monsters that give him curses. These curses are the pain that his past enemies have felt before. That means he's fighting through dozens of sword wounds, but perhaps the most impressive part about this is the first curse bestowed upon him:

House of Hades pages 135-136 PDF
House of Hades pages 135-136 PDF

In Battle of the Labyrinth, Percy killed Geryon by shooting an arrow through his side. Geryon had three bodies, three hearts. Percy went through that and still stood up, then proceeded to fight as shown above this feat. That's some crazy pain tolerance that should enable him to fight through whatever Spyro slashes him with, and those kinds of attacks become inconsequential when you take into account Percy's healing factor while in the water:

The blood was gone. Where the huge cut had been, there was a long white scratch, and even that was fading. As I watched, it turned into a small scar, and disappeared.

The Lightning Thief

There are few more impressive showings, but I'll leave it at that for now. You mentioned Spyro as having, and I quote, "fire, ice, earth, and electrical elemental abilities," so I'll go in order:

He scooped lava out of the nearest furnace. It set his fingers ablaze, but this didn't seem to bother him at all. The other elder Telekhines did the same. The first one threw a glop of molten rock at me and set my pants on fire. Two more splattered across my chest. I dropped my sword in sheer terror and swatted at my clothes. Fire was engulfing me. Strangely, it felt only warm at first, but it was getting hotter by the instant.

"Your father's nature protects you," one said. "Makes you hard to burn. But not impossible, youngling. Not impossible"

The threw more lava at me, and I remember screaming. My whole body was on fire. The pain was worse than anything I'd ever felt. I was being consumed. I crumpled to the metal floor and heard the demons howling in delight...

Battle of the Labyrinth

As is seen here, Percy can survive extended exposure to lava. Lava can reach anywhere from 1,300 to 2,300 degrees Fahrenheit in temperature, so that's some pretty impressive heat resistance. All of this not minding the fact that Percy's powers revolve around water, so he'd be a pretty hard counter to that. I'll cross that boat when I get there, though. I've got nothing, really, for ice or earth. Ice is usually in shards and I showed Percy's resistance to piercing. Earth is usually in blocks and I showed Percy's resistance to blunt force. Then we get to electricity:

"Argh!" Thalia pushed me, and a shock went through my body that blew me backward ten feet into the water. Some of the campers gasped. A couple of the Hunters stiffled laughs.

"Sorry!" Thalia said, turning pale. "I didn't mean to-"

Anger roared in my ears. A wave erupted from the creek, blasting into Thalia's face and dousing her head to toe.

I raised Riptide, but before I could even defend myself, Thalia yelled and a blast of lightning came down from the sky, hit her spear like a lightning rod, and slammed into my chest...

I got to my feet and willed the entire creek to rise. Hundreds of gallons of water in an icy funnel cloud...

Titan's Curse

Twice in the span of seconds Percy tanks lightning attacks from Thalia, daughter of Zeus. Twice, Percy gets back up to fight back. He stops immediately afterwards because of external sources, but this shows that Percy has what it takes to fight on. He's got more in terms of lightning, so I'll save some of that for later.

Yea, I think Percy has what it takes to contend against Spyro. I'm going to hold off on Percy's water powers for now, until I see that Spyro is packing, but you better expect a much greater punch than what I showed.

Conclusion

I'm going to hold off on calling any advantages just yet, especially since I used a fair amount of scaling in some of the sections. That said, Percy should absolutely be able to contend physically against the small dragon. I also have basically no knowledge on the purple thing, so I'm going to end the post here with the hopes of a great CaV.

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AmethystGravity

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@supremegeneration: Great opener; I think this debate is going to be marvelous! I'm going to try to get my opener up today or tomorrow!

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deactivated-5aba78567e8b5

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Lol Tag!

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cdiddyman911

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Tag for votes.

Don't let Percy end up like how he did once Luthor Strode was done with him ;)

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Revan-

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#9  Edited By Revan-

What is a “Dragom”

I think Supreme is illiterate. Tag.

Edit: SupremeIllteration

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TheWatcherKing

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Tag but I can't promise that I will vote just yet.

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SupremeGeneration

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@revan- said:

What is a “Dragom”

I think Supreme is illiterate. Tag.

Edit: SupremeIllteration

Didn't even notice.

Tag for votes.

Don't let Percy end up like how he did once Luthor Strode was done with him ;)

Hey, hey, hey, we never finished that one, did we?

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SupremeGeneration

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@supremegeneration: Great opener; I think this debate is going to be marvelous! I'm going to try to get my opener up today or tomorrow!

No worries, take your time.

Also, I'm going to be doing some grammar and spelling edits but that's it.

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cdiddyman911

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#13  Edited By cdiddyman911

@supremegeneration: Not tecbnically, but you said if you didn't get a post up in 3 days you conceded. It's been a year haha

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SupremeGeneration

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@supremegeneration: Not tecbnically, but you said if you didn't get a post up in 3 days you conceded. It's been a year haha

I have a knack for that in CaVs... I'm a very lazy individual.

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@supremegeneration:

No Caption Provided

Spyro the Dragon:

Intoduction:

Raised by a family of dragonflies, Spyro grew up thinking he was a large, purple dragonfly. In reality, Spyro is a rare purple dragon, born once in ten generations with aptitude for more than one element.

Spyro rescued the elemental guardians from Cynder, a corrupted dragon. He rescued and defeated Cynder in the airlock between worlds. The purple dragon also defeated Gaul, the Ape King, on the Night of Eternal Darkness, though he was forced to use his time abilities to freeze Cynder, his brother Sparx, and himself in time for three years.

Many hoped that his birth would help bring peace to the land after the first purple dragon, Malefor, waged war across the planet. Malefor told Spyro that purple dragons came before Malefore, destined to destroy the world, but Spyro chose a different path, stopping his predecessor with Cynder's aid.

Physicals:

As a dragon, Spyro has superhuman physicals and the ability to fly.

Durability:

Spyro can take hits from corrupted Cynder and continue fighting. He managed to pursue her after getting hit at the end of their fight. Both of

To put this in perspective, Cynder, with one hit, knocked Terrador, guardian of earth, out of the air. While Terrador was drained of his elemental energy, there's no indication that such a drain influenced his physicals, as he flew fine and flew all the way back to the dragon temple.

Cynder also brawled with (and eventually defeated) Ignitus, guardian of fire. Ignitus can take on an entire group of Ape soldiers and the Ape commander. Ape soldiers can casually tear through stone, and an Ape commander can tear through a metal gate.

Spyro has resistance to explosive blasts., as he recovered quickly from an Ape explosive device.

In terms of piercing damage, Spyro has taken a recorrupted Cynder's tail blade and claw strikes.

Perhaps his most impressive durability feat is when he kept fighting while falling into an erupting volcano, which was the centerpiece of Malefor’s global destruction event. While the falling dragon temple shielded the trio from the direct blast of heat, the air temperature was still exceptionally hot, as shown by the flames around. The air pressure should also have been pretty extreme, given all the volcanic gases rushing upwards.

Thus, Spyro certainly isn't lacking in the damage soak arena, as he can take the punishment if he needs to.

Striking Strength:

Spyro can send an ape soldier flying away with a headbutt and one-shot another. Not only can the apes ignore smashing through stone, their common method of entering battle is getting dropped through explosive barrels. It's probably not the most logical delivery option, but it works, I guess.

Spyro's striking power should be well over what's needed to shatter stone, which is supported by how a cutscene of pillars falling over are triggered by him striking one in gameplay.

Combative Speed:

Whether on the ground or in the air, Spyro is pretty adept at dodging. He can dodge a blundertail's strike, which appears faster-than-eyesight. He's also avoided cannonballs while flying.

He has other good speed feats, but I think are fine for now to show what level of speed the purple dragon is at.

Elements:

As I mentioned earlier, Spyro is master of the four core elements in the trilogy: fire, electricity, ice, and earth. Purple dragons are capable of learning other powers, some of which Spyro has also used, but due to both morals and power limitations, he doesn't seem to make use of them in most of his battles in the latest entry, Dawn of the Dragon. Thus, I'm not going to debate with those, since they shouldn't really be relevant, anyways.

Fire:

Spyro's first element was revealed when he had to repel ape soldiers from Sparx. There aren't too many non-gameplay depictions of his elements, though I plan on using some of the in-game text. Nonetheless, an example of how Spyro has improved on his elements (through training with the elemental guardians, as well as general experience) the titular art depicts Spyro and Cynder using their breath attacks on the golem.

No Caption Provided

To be fair, the damage seems to be only surface level, but the chunks of stone flying off still indicate that the attack isn't useless. To put this in perspective, the golem walks unharmed through the flames at the base of Malefor's volcanic lair. Nonetheless, Spyro and Cynder succeed in finishing off the creature.

Electricity:

Spyro, without training with Volteer, learned how to fire electric bolts powerful enough to down three undead warriors. With the guardian of electricity's training, he was able to also fire blasts that could trap foes in the air, as the in-game text reveals.

Ice:

Similarly, Spyro, without training, froze the surface of a river over. Cyril, guardian of ice, taught him to use ice shards at long-range.

Earth:

Much like the other elements, Spyro first experimented with the power without training by shattering a metal bell. Terrador taught the purple dragon how to use the element at longer ranges.

Strategy:

Spyro can take to the air to keep his distance from Percy, making use of his dodging skills to keep away. At long-range, ice spikes and electric blasts would allow Spyro to keep pressure on Percy. If Spyro is forced to land, he can still make use of his speed while employing ice and fire at mid-ranges. At close-range, Spyro has earth blasts, with the repulsive effect allowing him to keep his distance again.

That's all for now, I guess! The ball is in your court, now!

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Chaos239

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@supremegeneration: Just a note, in your opener for the Percy vs Thalia lightning feat it says its source from Lightning Thief which obviously isn't right given that Thalia was revived 2 books later.

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SupremeGeneration

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@chaos239 said:

@supremegeneration: Just a note, in your opener for the Percy vs Thalia lightning feat it says its source from Lightning Thief which obviously isn't right given that Thalia was revived 2 books later.

Lol thanks for the note.

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@amethystgravity: Sorry for the late post.

No Caption Provided

Let's get this show on the road.

Main Counters

Albeit you never made any arguments per se, I'm just going to be looking in detail at everything you're doing and seeing how effective it vs Percy.

Physicals: Spyro's Durability vs Percy's Sword

Spyro can take hits from corrupted Cynder and continue fighting. He managed to pursue her after getting hit at the end of their fight. Both of

To put this in perspective, Cynder, with one hit, knocked Terrador, guardian of earth, out of the air. While Terrador was drained of his elemental energy, there's no indication that such a drain influenced his physicals, as he flew fine and flew all the way back to the dragon temple.

Cynder also brawled with (and eventually defeated) Ignitus, guardian of fire. Ignitus can take on an entire group of Ape soldiers and the Ape commander. Ape soldiers can casually tear through stone, and an Ape commander can tear through a metal gate.

Now obviously, all of this is extremely impressive. I can't complain about the scaling since I did it en masse too, so I'll get straight to the point: against Percy, blunt durability isn't really all that great. He has it in spades, but it's useless against him because he uses a sword. Scratch that, it's not useless, it's just not his primary form of attack.

Delving into specifics, Spyro took two hits from Cynder not including game mechanics. Personally, when it comes to taking attacks and dealing damage in video games, those kinds of game mechanics aren't really applicable. The reason I believe this, and this'll probably be a huge point of contention, is because of nothing less than health bars. Game mechanics allow characters to take things way beyond their usual level simply because the game demands that they lose a little health.

THAT SAID, Spyro did take two hits from Cynder and got back up. Unfortunately, I don't know how durable Terrador is and Ignitus never actually got him by the Ape Soldiers/Commander, so we don't know how durable he truly is.

To me, at face value, Spyro took two hits from a massive dragon. The scaling is fine so long as it makes sense; we don't know how durable Terrador is and we don't know how durable Ignitius is as he never got hit. Ergo, Spyro taking hits from Cynder is diminished.

Spyro has resistance to explosive blasts., as he recovered quickly from an Ape explosive device.

I don't see anything happening in the video, perhaps a gif?

Perhaps his most impressive durability feat is when he kept fighting while falling into an erupting volcano, which was the centerpiece of Malefor’s global destruction event. While the falling dragon temple shielded the trio from the direct blast of heat, the air temperature was still exceptionally hot, as shown by the flames around. The air pressure should also have been pretty extreme, given all the volcanic gases rushing upwards.

That looks visually amazing and I'm not going to lie, game mechanics don't apply to that one. At face value, he was fighting inside an erupting volcano. I can't take this one away from you. It does seem a bit above everything else shown, but it goes to show that Spyro definitely belongs in this battle. It's extremely impressive, but doesn't help him much (except the air pressure bit); Percy isn't going to be heating Spyro up, he's going to be slicing him.

In terms of piercing damage, Spyro has taken a recorrupted Cynder's tail blade and claw strikes.

Thus, Spyro certainly isn't lacking in the damage soak arena, as he can take the punishment if he needs to.

Now this feat gets into what's really going to affect Spyro. For now, I can't gauge how impressive it is due to not knowing how tough Cynder's tail blade/claw strikes are. It also looked more like a headbut than a tail blade.

I showed Percy slicing clean through a stone fountain in my opener. Allow me to up the ante as he slices clean through solid metal robot/Nikette:

As the Nikette raised her had to catch it, Percy emerged from the trench behind her and slashed with Riptide, cutting the Nikette in half at the waist.

Blood of Olympus page 120

Spyro might not be able to survive one, let alone a thrashing of these kinds of strikes, especially given Percy's kind of skill.

Physicals: Spyro's Striking vs Percy's Durability

Spyro can send an ape soldier flying away with a headbutt and one-shot another. Not only can the apes ignore smashing through stone, their common method of entering battle is getting dropped through explosive barrels. It's probably not the most logical delivery option, but it works, I guess.

Spyro's striking power should be well over what's needed to shatter stone, which is supported by how a cutscene of pillars falling over are triggered by him striking one in gameplay.

Mightily impressive - nothing to take away from here except Spyro is a stone buster, for the most part. However, based on Percy's showing against Atlas, I think Percy can take more than a few hits. To further cement this:

Percy turned too slowly. Ephialtes swung his spear like a bat and smacked him across the chest. He fell to his knees, the pain turning his stomach to lava.

Jason ran to his side, but Otis lumbered after him. Percy managed to rise and found himself shoulder to shoulder with Jason. Over by the dais, Piper was still on the floor, unable to get up. Nico was barely conscious.

Mark of Athena
Percy gets spear-batted by a 12ft giant (which is small for his kind, they're usually pushing 40) that was throwing around a fake mountain "the size of Percy's New York Apartment", and apartments in NYC are pretty big. Ephialtes and his brother are famous for stacking mountains to try and reach Mt. Olympus; while it doesn't translate directly into book Percy it is mentioned in the novel and the level of this hit is implied. I'll show more feats later on, but all of the aforementioned feats coupled with Percy's healing factor (which I'll show later on in the post) will make for a tough opponent to put down.

Speed: Percy vs Spyro

Whether on the ground or in the air, Spyro is pretty adept at dodging. He can dodge a blundertail's strike, which appears faster-than-eyesight. He's also avoided cannonballs while flying.

He has other good speed feats, but I think are fine for now to show what level of speed the purple dragon is at.

Dodging something FTE is far different from fighting FTE. The feat I showed for Percy against the Amazon had him draw his sword in the middle of her FTE swing. That's true FTE combat, and I'm about show more in a bit. The cannonball bit is great, doing some quick research... This link states:

"So, what was the "starting speed"? It seems likely to be in between 250 and 100 m/s (250 m/s is about 820 feet per second)." Your cannonballs look a bit smaller than the ones used here so I'll use the uppermost limit of 250 m/s which translates to about 560MPH. Let's look at Percy:

Titan's Curse
Titan's Curse

Percy doesn't just deflect a bullet after it is fired, he blitzes another skeleton soldier before it can fire. The average bullet is 1700MPH, which even if reduced on account of it being a handgun is still far faster than your cannonball. To get even better into the FTE combat speed argument, allow me to bring up Percy's best feat in that regard:

[Piper] rolled to the edge of the road and looked back, dazed and horrified, as [Percy and Jason] crossed swords, gold against bronze. Sparks flew. Their blades blurred-strike and parry-and the pavement trembled. The first exchange only lasted a second, but Piper couldn't believe the speed of their sword fighting.

Mark of Athena

As you can see, Percy and Jason exchange multiple strikes and parries in a literal second. Their blades were blurred and this was coming from Piper who could make decently accurate shots atop the aforementioned supersonic horse in my opener. Another thing to take away from this is the fact that their sword clashes are shaking the ground. However, to make this feat even more impressive than it already is:

Many of Percy's powers had gotten stronger over the years, but now, too late, Percy realized that swordplay was not one of them. He was rusty-at least against an adversary like Chrysaor.

Mark of Athena
About 200 pages later (no timeskip involved) Percy realizes that his sword skills are rusty against high-tier opponents. This doesn't stop him from battling Jason at FTE speeds. I mean they exchanged a long series of moves in a single second, I might daresay MFTE. That said, their is context to the Percy v Jason fight - neither was holding back/they were possessed. However, it's not like he has a reason to hold back against a foe he's never encountered either.

Spyro's Elements vs Percy's Water and Durability

This will be where I showcase Percy's water powers, which Spyro doesn't seem to have. To me, this makes the battle all the more interesting.

Fire

Spyro's first element was revealed when he had to repel ape soldiers from Sparx. There aren't too many non-gameplay depictions of his elements, though I plan on using some of the in-game text. Nonetheless, an example of how Spyro has improved on his elements (through training with the elemental guardians, as well as general experience) the titular art depicts Spyro and Cynder using their breath attacks on the golem.

To be fair, the damage seems to be only surface level, but the chunks of stone flying off still indicate that the attack isn't useless. To put this in perspective, the golem walks unharmed through the flames at the base of Malefor's volcanic lair. Nonetheless, Spyro and Cynder succeed in finishing off the creature.

I'm going to assume that Spyro's fire becomes more power the course of his games since he goes from not one-shotting ape soldiers to scathing fireproof golems. I showed Percy taking insane amounts of lava earlier, so Percy's resistance to this will be insanely high. To further counter Spyro's fire, Percy's natural element as the son of the sea god is water. Because we start 20 feet from the beach, Percy could easily douse the fire Spyro is packing:

I ran toward them, jumping past duels, weaving between the legs of the giants. The nearest water was the creek, half a mile away... but I had to do something. I concentrated. There was a pull in my gut, a roar in my ears. Then a wall of water came rushing through the trees. It doused the fire, Juniper, Grover, and pretty much everything else.

Battle of the Labyrinth

Using water that was half a mile away to instantly douse a forest fire. I think 20 feet will be nothing when it comes to combatting Spyro.

Electricity:

Spyro, without training with Volteer, learned how to fire electric bolts powerful enough to down three undead warriors. With the guardian of electricity's training, he was able to also fire blasts that could trap foes in the air, as the in-game text reveals.

Probably the element I'm least worried about. It took him a while to knock down the undead warriors and the trapping in the air seems a bit worrying, but I showed Percy taking similarly (visually) powerful attacks. To up the ante, though:

No Caption Provided

In about 1/4 of a page, if that, Percy recovered from Jason's lightning. Why is that impressive? This is the same Jason that destroy mansions:

Jason raised his javelin, and the ceiling exploded. A lightning bolt ripped through the roof like it was an eggshell, connected with the tip of Jason's spear, and sent out arcs of electricity that blasted the sofa to shreds. Chunks of ceiling plaster crashed down. The chandelier groaned and snapped off its chain, and Midas screamed as it pinned him to the floor.

Lost Hero

Much more impressive than Thalia, who only has regular feats. Oh and because Jason was possessed in that fight, he wasn't holding back, so I don't think Percy will be least bit fazed. As for getting out of that mini stasis field, Percy's done something similar:

Suddenly there was a wrenching pain in my gut. The entire boat lurched sideways, throwing monsters off their feet. Four thousand gallons of salt water surged out of the swimming pool, dousing me and Kronos and everyone on the deck. The water revitalized me, breaking the time spell, and I lunged forward.

Percy broke a time spell cast by Kronos (who could slow/stop time down at a city-wide scale) by bringing water towards him, something he could easily do in the face of Spyro's electricity, bringing him out.

Ice

Similarly, Spyro, without training, froze the surface of a river over. Cyril, guardian of ice, taught him to use ice shardsat long-range.

The river wasn't 100% frozen, but that does seem impressive. I don't think it's something that could 100% stop Percy, since he could likely break out in the same fashion as he did with the Kronos attack, but we should also consider the fact that ice is technically water. Percy has shown proficiency in controlling things that aren't necessarily water but are liquid:

Poison was liquid. If it moved like water, it must be partially water.

He remembered some science lecture about the human body being mostly water. He remembered extracting water out of Jason's lungs back in Rome... If he could control that, then why not other liquids?... Warmth flowed through him. The poison tide stopped.

The fumes blew away from him-back toward the goddess. The lake of poison rolled toward her in tiny waves and rivulets.

House of Hades

An entire phalanx of Cyclopes charged forward, knocking smaller monsters out of the way. Annabeth figured she was about to die. "It had to be Cyclopes," she grumbled.

Percy gave a battle cry. At the Cyclopes' feet, a red vein in the ground burst open, spraying the monsters with liquid fire from the Phlegethon.

House of Hades
Bob stumbled away from battle, his saber-toothed cat at his side. Percy gave them as much cover as he could-causing blood vessels in the ground to burst open one after anotherHouse of Hades
The giant thrust his hand under the water. As the torrent passed through his fingers it turned dark green. He flung some at Percy, who instinctively deflected it with his will. The liquid splattered to the ground in front of him. With a nasty hiss, the ground withered and smoked.Son of Neptune

As you can see, everything from immortal blood (what the Underworld/Tartarus rivers are for the incarnation of Tartarus), poison vapor, poison liquid, Percy has controlled all of it. Particularly note the House of Hades instances, because Percy is weakened in that one (he spends the book in Tartarus) and it's noted that he's weaker even days after he'd left it.

The point I wish to make is that Percy has controlled 2/3 of the states of water, the third wouldn't be far-fetched, especially as the ice would be melting in the sun anyways.

Your ice shards don't necessarily concern me since they were only used on training dummies and I've shown Percy knocking entire volleys of arrows out of the air. I showed him bullet timing earlier, too.

Earth

Much like the other elements, Spyro first experimented with the power without training by shattering a metal bell. Terrador taught the purple dragon how to use the element at longer ranges.

Shattering the bell is definitely impressive, but he seemingly needs to be at close range for that level of power. Your Earth bombs were, again, solely used on training dummies so we can't be sure of what power level they're supposed to be. Percy's taken explosions before

Another fireball came streaking toward me. Tyson pushed me out of the way, but the explosion still blew me head over heels. I found myself sprawled on the gym floor, dazed from smoke, my tie-dyed shirt peppered with sizzling holes.

Sea of Monsters

This is Percy in Sea of Monsters, far from the prime I'm using here, taking a damn near point-blank explosion (iirc blew a hole in the side of a school) only getting dazed. He immediately begins running from the scene because he thought everyone would be blaming him (which they did).

Your Strategy - Getting Around It

Spyro can take to the air to keep his distance from Percy, making use of his dodging skills to keep away.

I don't think the flying game would work very well for Spyro. Doing so would make the fight an absolute stalemate - at least depending on how high Spyro can fly, but looking at the picture you used for the earth thing, I'll say pretty high. If Percy can't hit him, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say Percy would do the same thing Spyro did - just underwater:

I held my breath. It's difficult to intentionally inhale water. Finally I couldn't stand it anymore. I gasped. Sure enough, I could breathe normally.

I walked down into the shoals. I shouldn't have been able to see through the murk, but somehow I could tell where everything was. I could sense the rolling texture of the bottom. I could make out the sand-dollar colonies dotting the sandbars. I could even see the currents, warm and cold streams swirling together.

Sea of Monsters

Percy can breath underwater indefinitely, so the battle will only truly begin when Spyro comes down. Alternatively, however, Percy can use the water to try and reach Spyro:

Then [Percy] slammed Riptide into the ice at his feet. The entire glacier shuddered. Ghosts fell to their knees. Behind Percy, a wave of gray water even taller than the glacier. Water shot from the chasms and crevices in the ice. As the water hit, the back half of the camp crumbled. The entire edge of the glacier peeled away, cascading into the void-carrying buildings, ghosts, and Percy Jackson over the edge.

Son of Neptune

For a quick reference, they were atop Hubbard Glacier which is about 350ft high. That means Percy's wave had to be even higher. Doing this would cause Spyro to have to dodge it, since the last thing he wants is to be caught in a massive wave that would only drag him down to sea - the last place he wants to be.

At long-range, ice spikes and electric blasts would allow Spyro to keep pressure on Percy.

I'm sure those things would have a range, and Percy's no idiot either, he would be hiding in the water while you barrage him with things. I also showed him bullet timing, so the ice shards aren't likely to be doing much and the electric blasts would be tanked and/or healed off.

If Spyro is forced to land, he can still make use of his speed while employing ice and fire at mid-ranges. At close-range, Spyro has earth blasts, with the repulsive effect allowing him to keep his distance again.

Close range is the last place Spyro wants to be. As of this post, Percy is definitively faster and using this faster combat speed as well as insane cutting damage, I'm confident Percy can take the small dragon without much trouble.

Why Percy Wins:

The Winning Edge

Spyro's means of defeating Percy all have their own set of counters (i.e training dummies) that diminish their feats a decent bit. Percy has a sword that will carve through Spyro faster than he can react.

Water Powers

While Spyro has his own set of abilities that make him formidable, the true danger he brings is versatility. When it comes to Percy and his water, I'd say he brings raw power that Spyro can't hope to match.

Water: Raw Power

I showed the Hubbard Glacier feat, which alone is far above anything Spyro has shown to output. There are some more, but Hubbard Glacier was one of the best.

The sea serpent came after me. I quickly turned the waterspout to face him, then summoned all my power and willed the water to even greater heights.

WHOOOOM

Ten thousand gallons of salt water crashed into the monster. I leaped over its head, uncapped Riptide, and slashed with all my might at the creature's neck. The monster roared. Green blood spouted from the wound, and the serpent sank beneath the waves

Percy Jackson and the Stolen Chariot

10,000 gallons is nothing to Percy, as he quickly dispatches of a giant sea serpent.

Percy summoned a wave, and the enemy ship was swallowed.

Mark of Athena

I know that this is incredibly straight-forward, but Percy can summon waves big enough to take down triremes, 120ft long ships. Albeit, the ship was already sinking, it's still an insane amount of water.

Only Percy was having much luck. He stood by the center mast, his hands extended like he was walking a tightrope. Every time the ship tilted, he pushed it in the opposite direction and the hull stabilized. He summoned giant fists of water from the ocean to slam into the larger waves before they could reach the deck, so it looked like the ocean was hitting itself repeatedly in the face.

With the storm as bad as it was, Jason realized the ship would've already capsized or been smashed to bits if Percy was not on the job.

Blood of Olympus

Finally, here we have Percy keeping an entire ship from capsizing. He was making sure that a sea storm wasn't taking their ship down - but it wasn't just a sea storm. This was the goddessKymopoleia, literally the goddess of violent sea storms, and Percy had been doing this for a long time. These weren't just waves coming at the ship, they were more than likely mini-tsunamis. Yet Percy makes water fists large and powerful enough to slow them down.

Water: Precision

What good is raw power if you can't do anything with it?

Percy thrust out his hands. An intense tugging sensation filled his gut, and the Tiber obeyed his will. The river surged. Whirlpools formed on either side of Frank. Giant watery hands erupted from the stream, copying Percy's movements.

Son of Neptune

Giant water hands? Nothing. Also, he does this while having literally none of his past memories.

We leaped off the top deck and straight into the bay, but we were only under water for a moment. I felt the power of the ocean surging through me. I willed the water to swirl around me, building force until we burst out of the bay on top a thirty-foot-high waterspout. I steered us straight toward the monster.

Percy Jackson and the Stolen Chariot

He can ride thirty-ft high waterspouts like a badass the moment he feels the water on him.

They charged straight toward the water. I imagined the sea turning solid, the waves becoming a firm surface all the way to Manhattan. The war chariot hit the surf, the horses' fiery breath smoking all around us, and we rode the tops of the waves straight across New York Harbor

Percy Jackson and the Stolen Chariot

Percy can make the water solid, which would be a great way to lure Spyro in and drag him in the sea with Percy, where he'll have the advantage.

As soon as [Carter Kane] spoke the word, the symbol blazed in the air between us. A giant fist the size of a dishwasher shimmered into existence and slammed [Percy] into the next county.

I mean I literally punched him out of his shoes. He rocketed from the river with a loud suck-plop! And the last thing I saw was his bare feet achieving escape velocity as he flew backward and out of sight...

The wave came out of nowhere.

A twenty foot wall of water slammed into me and pushed me back into the river. I came up spluttering, a horrible taste like fish food in my mouth. I blinked the gunk out of my eyes just in time to see Camper Boy leaping toward me ninja-style, his sword raised.

I lifted my khopesh to deflect the blow. I just managed to keep my head from being cleaved in half, but the Camper Boy was strong and quick. As I reeled backward, he struck again and again. Each time I was able to parry; but I could tell I was outmatched. His blade was light and quicker, and-yes, I'll admit it-he was a better swordsman.

Son of Sobek
Percy gets hit by a "fist the size of a dishwasher" and comes back unfazed, dominating Carter (a great swordsman in his own right) without much trouble, but the main thing to take away is that Percy's wave dragged Carter back in. That's what Spyro will be in for.

Water: Amps

There hasn't been much need of water amps in the last series, but they exist nonetheless.

Luke poured ice water on his head, which looked like such a good idea, I did the same...

Somehow, I kept [Luke] from getting a shot at my sword. My senses opened up. I saw his attacks coming. I countered. I stepped forward and tried a thrust of my own. Luke deflected it easily, but I saw a change in his face. His eyes narrowed, and he started to press me with more force.

The sword grew heavy in my hand. The balance was not right..I tried the disarming maneuver.

My blade hit the base of Luke's and I twisted, putting my whole weight in a downward thrust.

clang.

Luke's sword rattled against the stones. The tip of my blade was an inch from his undefended chest.

Lightning Thief

As you can see, all Percy had to do was pour ice on his head and he disarmed Luke, the "best swordsman in the last 300 years" who for some reason thinks he could've beaten Ares. The amp is even noted as Percy tried to do so again but failed to even match Luke, and remember that this is Percy's first ever training session.

He pushed me into the creek and I landed with a splash. They all laughed. I figured as soon as they were through being amused, I would die. But then something happened. The water seemed to wake up my senses, as if I'd just had a bag of my mom's double-espresso jelly beans.

Clarisse and her cabinmates came into the creek to get me, but I stood to meet them. I knew what to do. I swung the flat of my sword against the first guy's head and knocked his helmet clean off. I hit him so hard I could see his eyes vibrating as he crumpled into the water.

Ugly Number Two and Ugly Number Three came at me. I slammed one in the face with my shield and used my sword to shear off the other guy's horsehair plume. Both of them backed up quick. Ugly Number Four didn't look too anxious to attack, but Clarisse kept coming, the point of her spear crackling with energy. As soon as she thrust, I caught the shaft between the edge of my shield and my sword, and I snapped it like a twig... I smacked [Clarisse] between the eyes with my sword-butt and sent her stumbling backward out of the creek.

Lightning Thief

Before five highly-trained Ares kids can put Percy down, he gets amped by the creek, and teaches them all a lesson. He sent Clarisse back with a single hit, knocked a guy's helmet off, utterly dominated them, and seemed to be too fast for them to react.

So Percy gets massive speed, strength, and skill boosts from the water. Remember that those feats are book 1 Percy. He's now gone through a dozen books and some mini-stories; he's going to be much faster than Spyro can hope to match.

Water: Healing

The blood was gone. Where the huge cut had been, there was a long white scratch, and even that was fading. As I watched, it turned into a small scar, and disappeared.

======================================================================================

It leaped over her-an enormous shadow with teeth-and just as it hit me, as I stumbled backwards and felt its razor sharp claws cut through my armor...

By some miracle, I was still alive. I didn't want to look underneath my shredded armor. My chest felt warm and wet, and I knew I was badly cut...

I was too tired to argue. I stepped back into the creek, the whole camp gathering around me. Instantly, I felt better. I could feel the cuts on my chest closing up.

Lightning Thief

While his healing is primarily focused on cuts, it should be enough for him take a few more hits from Spyro than he would be able to without it.

Percy has a load of other powers with water, such as summoning sea life to help him, but I'm going to stick with the basics for this one.

Experience

Percy has literally spent his life since he was 12 years old fighting threats like Spyro. Camp Half-Blood has actual dragon and drakon fighting classes. He's faced a celestial bronze automaton dragon and a Lythian drakon solo. Just something to keep in mind as the debate progresses.

General Strategy

As you might have guessed, the general strategy is to get Spyro to land. At a distance, the battle will become an ultimate stalemate. At the mid-range, both will be able to take shots at each other, but the close range is where we want Spyro. If Percy hides underwater, Spyro will have no choice but to come down. The moment he gets close enough, Percy summons a wave to bring Spyro in and he's dead meat; Percy's powers will restrain the dragon whilst underwater and he can proceed to carve him up.

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#21  Edited By AmethystGravity

@supremegeneration: Sorry, it might take me a bit of time to get a response post up. Your post looks great, and I'm definitely looking forward to continuing this debate!

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@supremegeneration:This is shaping up to be awesome! Here's my

Response Post:

Loading Video...

Percy's Physicals:

Reaction-wise, I'm saving the better feat for next time but for now, Percy is an adept arrow timer, capable of slashing entire volleys of them out of the air:

""Get in!" I yelled. I uncapped Riptide and slashed the first volley of arrows out of the air"

Notice how he uncapped his sword after the arrows were fired.

Without the context, how do we know when the arrows were fired, relative to him uncapping Riptide?

The second Amazon they met was not so friendly. She was dressed in full armor, blocking the throne-room entrance. She spun her spear with lightning speed, but this time Percy was ready. He drew Riptide and stepped into battle. As the Amazon jabbed at him, he sidestepped, cut her spear shaft in half, and slammed the hilt of his sword against her helmet.

Percy dodged a spear described as being "lightning speed" (and this statement was made by Hazel, who can pretty handily control a super/hyper-sonic horse mid-run). Based on the text, Percy managed to draw his sword while the Amazon was mid-swing, which given the description (and who said it) it must have at the very least been blur speeds. Of course, that's up for interpretation, but I have more evidence if needed.

Did she spin her spear first, then jab? Jabbing isn't usually the same as swinging, and if she was already swinging towards Percy, why would he have to "step into battle"? It's still a great speed feat, but the exact order of events seems somewhat unclear.

As is seen here, Percy can survive extended exposure to lava. Lava can reach anywhere from 1,300 to 2,300 degrees Fahrenheit in temperature, so that's some pretty impressive heat resistance. All of this not minding the fact that Percy's powers revolve around water, so he'd be a pretty hard counter to that.

Percy still fell to the ground, though it's a good heat-resistance feat. However, as I've shown before, Spyro can deal damage to one of Malefore's "golems of the deep" which comes from what appears to be underground magma, so Spyro's fire breath, if it hits, could deal even more damage than what Percy experienced.

Now obviously, all of this is extremely impressive. I can't complain about the scaling since I did it en masse too, so I'll get straight to the point: against Percy, blunt durability isn't really all that great. He has it in spades, but it's useless against him because he uses a sword. Scratch that, it's not useless, it's just not his primary form of attack.

While on the battles forums, there's a fair amount of separation between blunt-force durability and piercing durability, I personally think that the difference is exaggerated. Piercing durability is just resistance to greater force per area. Spyro has survived the volcanic pressure that was literally tearing stone apart from the dragon temple, showing that his durability to force per area is greater than stone (which makes sense, given how Ape fodder can easily shatter stone). Yes, stuff like Kevlar gives way to shards of glass because the force is on only a few strands, so Percy's sword is definitely a threat, but it's not like we can dismiss Spyro's blunt durability.

Besides, the sword is a threat if Percy gets in close, and Spyro knows to avoid foes with bladed weapons, like Gaul, the ape king.

Spyro's Physicals:

Delving into specifics, Spyro took two hits from Cynder not including game mechanics. Personally, when it comes to taking attacks and dealing damage in video games, those kinds of game mechanics aren't really applicable. The reason I believe this, and this'll probably be a huge point of contention, is because of nothing less than health bars. Game mechanics allow characters to take things way beyond their usual level simply because the game demands that they lose a little health.

Of course, game mechanics are variable and not always representative of power levels. Thus, I'm trying to only use stuff like cutscenes and the text boxes, which seem to clearly show what the developers intended for the characters.

THAT SAID, Spyro did take two hits from Cynder and got back up. Unfortunately, I don't know how durable Terrador is and Ignitus never actually got him by the Ape Soldiers/Commander, so we don't know how durable he truly is.

To me, at face value, Spyro took two hits from a massive dragon. The scaling is fine so long as it makes sense; we don't know how durable Terrador is and we don't know how durable Ignitius is as he never got hit. Ergo, Spyro taking hits from Cynder is diminished.

True, I probably should have shown more regarding their durability. As for Ignitus, his battle still showed the physical strength Cynder had to overpower. In terms of durability, though, he also ignored explosions twice and took hits from apes (these are in the same video, with time stamps 10:40, 11:22, and 11:53. in The Eternal Night, which takes place shortly after the end of A New Beginning.

As for Terrador, we know that he and the other guardians turned the tides of battles with the apes. He's the second dragon shown, with a mace tail. Since he's depicted as the one fighting in close-quarters, it would seem rather far-fetched to say that he can't take a similar level of punishment as Ignitus, unless we think Terrador is on an entirely greater level of agility (which wouldn't make sense, given how they both fared against Cynder).

I don't see anything happening in the video, perhaps a gif?

Sorry about that; I mixed up URLs, and gifs and I don't get along well. Here's the feat.

It's extremely impressive, but doesn't help him much (except the air pressure bit); Percy isn't going to be heating Spyro up, he's going to be slicing him.

As I mentioned earlier, the feat still holds some bearing, given that the purple dragon was fighting in blasts of air pressure strong enough to tear apart stone.

Mightily impressive - nothing to take away from here except Spyro is a stone buster, for the most part. However, based on Percy's showing against Atlas, I think Percy can take more than a few hits. To further cement this:

I think stone buster is downplaying Spyro, considering that those apes he one-shots not only no-sell smashing through stone, but they also take explosions that blow right through stone structures.

Percy gets spear-batted by a 12ft giant (which is small for his kind, they're usually pushing 40) that was throwing around a fake mountain "the size of Percy's New York Apartment", and apartments in NYC are pretty big. Ephialtes and his brother are famous for stacking mountains to try and reach Mt. Olympus; while it doesn't translate directly into book Percy it is mentioned in the novel and the level of this hit is implied. I'll show more feats later on, but all of the aforementioned feats coupled with Percy's healing factor (which I'll show later on in the post) will make for a tough opponent to put down.

I agree that Percy's durability is definitely going to challenge Spyro. However, lifting strength isn't always directly translated to striking strength, though the feat seems consistent with what you've shown of Percy's durability--he can definitely take stone-shattering force.

Dodging something FTE is far different from fighting FTE. The feat I showed for Percy against the Amazon had him draw his sword in the middle of her FTE swing. That's true FTE combat, and I'm about show more in a bit.

Spyro doesn't need to be as fast as Percy is in melee combat. He just needs to be able to keep his distance, and as he can dodge an FTE strike, I'd say he has a fighting chance of doing so.

Percy doesn't just deflect a bullet after it is fired, he blitzes another skeleton soldier before it can fire. The average bullet is 1700MPH, which even if reduced on account of it being a handgun is still far faster than your cannonball. To get even better into the FTE combat speed argument, allow me to bring up Percy's best feat in that regard:

While I agree that bullets are considerably faster than cannonballs, another difference in their feats is that while Percy had to move his sword an unknown distance to intercept it, Spyro had to move his whole body out of the way of a much larger projectile.

About 200 pages later (no timeskip involved) Percy realizes that his sword skills are rusty against high-tier opponents. This doesn't stop him from battling Jason at FTE speeds. I mean they exchanged a long series of moves in a single second, I might daresay MFTE.

Is crossing swords, a strike, and a parry really "a long series of moves"? MFTE seems like a bit of a stretch.

Besides, Spyro has another great dodging feat: while carrying Cynder (thus basically doubling his inertia and nearly doubling their surface area), he flew against wind currents while dodging hundreds of stones. While each stone likely wasn't moving faster than a bullet (though they would be going faster than what we perceive in relation to Spyro, since he's moving against their flow), the fact that he can maneuver around such a vast number means I doubt Percy can move faster than Spyro can perceive.

The Elements:

I'm going to assume that Spyro's fire becomes more power the course of his games since he goes from not one-shotting ape soldiers to scathing fireproof golems. I showed Percy taking insane amounts of lava earlier, so Percy's resistance to this will be insanely high. To further counter Spyro's fire, Percy's natural element as the son of the sea god is water. Because we start 20 feet from the beach, Percy could easily douse the fire Spyro is packing:

Seeing as how that was Spyro's first use of fire, I think the training from Ignitus, reawakening of fire by the Chronicler, and the power boosts from absorbing spirit gems would increase his proficiency in the element.

I'm going to assume that Spyro's fire becomes more power the course of his games since he goes from not one-shotting ape soldiers to scathing fireproof golems. I showed Percy taking insane amounts of lava earlier, so Percy's resistance to this will be insanely high. To further counter Spyro's fire, Percy's natural element as the son of the sea god is water. Because we start 20 feet from the beach, Percy could easily douse the fire Spyro is packing:

Seeing as how Percy was near-incapacitated by the lava, would he be able to summon water? Even if he does douse himself, saltwater is a decent conductor for electricity, and it could also be frozen by ice.

It took him a while to knock down the undead warriors

I wouldn't say it took a while; it just seemed like the warriors were out of range at first. Why they continued running into the lightning, I'm not sure, though they probably don't have much rattling around their skulls.

In about 1/4 of a page, if that, Percy recovered from Jason's lightning. Why is that impressive? This is the same Jason that destroy mansions:

Jason raised his javelin, and the ceiling exploded. A lightning bolt ripped through the roof like it was an eggshell, connected with the tip of Jason's spear, and sent out arcs of electricity that blasted the sofa to shreds. Chunks of ceiling plaster crashed down. The chandelier groaned and snapped off its chain, and Midas screamed as it pinned him to the floor.

Is smashing a sofa and breaking the ceiling the same as destroying the whole mansion? Without context of how much was destroyed, that seems to be unclear.

Percy broke a time spell cast by Kronos (who could slow/stop time down at a city-wide scale) by bringing water towards him, something he could easily do in the face of Spyro's electricity, bringing him out.

That's a good counter for immobilization. However, in the time it takes Percy to summon the water, Spyro could attack with another element, like metal-busting earth blasts or golem-singing fire.

I admit that lightning likely isn't going to take Percy down. However, it allows Spyro to temporarily stun Percy in combat, acting as a near-unavoidable, mid range attack that could interrupt Percy's own offenses.

As you can see, everything from immortal blood (what the Underworld/Tartarus rivers are for the incarnation of Tartarus), poison vapor, poison liquid, Percy has controlled all of it. Particularly note the House of Hades instances, because Percy is weakened in that one (he spends the book in Tartarus) and it's noted that he's weaker even days after he'd left it.

The point I wish to make is that Percy has controlled 2/3 of the states of water, the third wouldn't be far-fetched, especially as the ice would be melting in the sun anyways.

Even the poisonous fumes were called a liquid, so it could just be liquid poison floating in wind, like mist. Thus, I'm not sure Percy's controlled actual water vapour, and ice, unlike gases or liquids, is not considered a fluid.

As for melting in the sun, the ice just needs to last long enough for Spyro to follow up. Defensively, it just needs to stop a water offensive long enough for Spyro to move someplace else.

Shattering the bell is definitely impressive, but he seemingly needs to be at close range for that level of power. Your Earth bombs were, again, solely used on training dummies so we can't be sure of what power level they're supposed to be. Percy's taken explosions before

Of course, Spyro isn't going to want to enter close-range, but it would be a nasty surprise if he's forced to. As for the training dummies, Terrador was about to send Spyro to face Cynder and rescue Ignitus from a fortress full of apes. If the immobilizing effects weren't applicable in actual combat, it would seem that Terrador was just wasting Spyro's time, which is inconsistent with the Guardians' intentions.

Strategy:

I don't think the flying game would work very well for Spyro. Doing so would make the fight an absolute stalemate - at least depending on how high Spyro can fly, but looking at the picture you used for the earth thing, I'll say pretty high. If Percy can't hit him, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say Percy would do the same thing Spyro did - just underwater:

I admit that Spyro staying above the shown scenery and Percy staying deep in the depths would just be a boring stalemate. However, just as I think it would basically count as leaving the battlefield for Spyro to fly above 200 feet, I think Percy going beyond the shown water (which, unless there's a really steep drop-off, is just, what, 20 feet deep?) would also be leaving.

For a quick reference, they were atop Hubbard Glacier which is about 350ft high. That means Percy's wave had to be even higher. Doing this would cause Spyro to have to dodge it, since the last thing he wants is to be caught in a massive wave that would only drag him down to sea - the last place he wants to be.

Spyro can still freeze over sections of waves or blast through them with earth shots. He can also keep himself relatively unmoved from Ignitus's fire fury, when the apes behind him were sent flying. Combine that with his ability to fight in the air pressure of the erupting volcano, and he should be able to keep stable.

I'm sure those things would have a range, and Percy's no idiot either, he would be hiding in the water while you barrage him with things. I also showed him bullet timing, so the ice shards aren't likely to be doing much and the electric blasts would be tanked and/or healed off.

Spyro's elements do have a range, but unless Percy goes pretty far from the coast, he should still be in range for Spyro's various explosive blasts, especially the earth missiles. As sound propagates better through water than air (due to water being a denser medium), Percy probably would feel continuous shocks from the explosions. Electricity could also encourage Percy to take the fight to the land, since there's not much of a way to avoid it underwater.

In terms of healing, the showings seemed to revolve around cut wounds, so would that necessarily help with electrical shocks or concussion? Also, most of Percy's fights you've shown seem to be on land, or at least in relatively shallow water, so is it even in-character for him to hide under the depths for the whole fight? I admit that Spyro doesn't always keep to the air, but as shown against the golem (in the image) and against Malefor, it's not out of the question, either.

For Percy's water spouts, Spyro can just freeze them or electrify them. As for making the sea solid, how does that lure Spyro down to the ocean.

Anyways, it seems to me that in the long-run, Spyro and Percy would have to fight in a place where both are accessible to the other; either in shallow water or on the shore. While Percy is faster in melee, Spyro can open up with lightning to briefly stun Percy, allowing him to use either an electric blast, earth missile, or ice stream to further incapacitate Percy and interrupt any water offenses. Doing so gives Spyro a chance to use fire, which, given that it hurts a golem that crawls our from what seems to be subterranean magma and no-sells volcanic heat, could overwhelm Percy's heat tolerance, preventing him from continuing the fight.

It's your turn, now; sorry for the wait!

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@amethystgravity:Sorry this took so long, hope you're still interested. Been dealing with the flu.

As this is my third post, to avoid another long delay, I'll make it my final post.

No Caption Provided

Physicals Counters: Percy

Reaction-wise, I'm saving the better feat for next time but for now, Percy is an adept arrow timer, capable of slashing entire volleys of them out of the air:

""Get in!" I yelled. I uncapped Riptide and slashed the first volley of arrows out of the air"

Notice how he uncapped his sword after the arrows were fired.

Without the context, how do we know when the arrows were fired, relative to him uncapping Riptide?

Because I said so Given that he's already an established bullet-timer, I'm going to say benefit of the doubt. However, here's the few paragraphs before it:

By the time we got the cover off, monsters and more security men were swarming the deck, pushing aside tourists and waiters with trays of tropical drinks. A guy in Greek armor drew his sword and charged, but slipped in a puddle of piña colada. Laistrygonian archers assembled on the deck above us, notching arrows in their enormous bows.

"How do you launch this thing?" screamed Annabeth.

A hellhound leaped at me, but Tyson slammed it aside with a fire extinguisher. "

Get in!" I yelled. I uncapped Riptide and slashed the first volley of arrows out of the air. Any second we would be overwhelmed.

Sea of Monsters

It doesn't specify when they were fired, but given that his first action immediately upon uncapping his sword is slashing the volley, I think it's fair to say it was after they fired.

The second Amazon they met was not so friendly. She was dressed in full armor, blocking the throne-room entrance. She spun her spear with lightning speed, but this time Percy was ready. He drew Riptide and stepped into battle. As the Amazon jabbed at him, he sidestepped, cut her spear shaft in half, and slammed the hilt of his sword against her helmet.

Percy dodged a spear described as being "lightning speed" (and this statement was made by Hazel, who can pretty handily control a super/hyper-sonic horse mid-run). Based on the text, Percy managed to draw his sword while the Amazon was mid-swing, which given the description (and who said it) it must have at the very least been blur speeds. Of course, that's up for interpretation, but I have more evidence if needed.

Did she spin her spear first, then jab? Jabbing isn't usually the same as swinging, and if she was already swinging towards Percy, why would he have to "step into battle"? It's still a great speed feat, but the exact order of events seems somewhat unclear.

You're absolutely correct, the order events are unclear. They described her spinning her spear, then jabbing, without any semblance of Percy having dodged, all he did was draw and step in and she jabs. The way I saw it was:

  1. Amazon spins her spear at "lightning speed"
  2. Percy draws Riptide mid-swing and steps in to face her, dodging in the process
  3. She attacks him again, jabbing this time, he sidesteps, and demolishes her

It seems like the most logical order of events. This action is also backed up by his showing against Jason (FTE). However, given that we don't know what happened between the spin and the jab, I can see the confusion.

As is seen here, Percy can survive extended exposure to lava. Lava can reach anywhere from 1,300 to 2,300 degrees Fahrenheit in temperature, so that's some pretty impressive heat resistance. All of this not minding the fact that Percy's powers revolve around water, so he'd be a pretty hard counter to that.

Percy still fell to the ground, though it's a good heat-resistance feat. However, as I've shown before, Spyro can deal damage to one of Malefore's "golems of the deep" which comes from what appears to be underground magma, so Spyro's fire breath, if it hits, could deal even more damage than what Percy experienced.

I do agree that his fire is a menace, however it's diminished slightly by the heat resistance. Percy was also fired at with magma, as they were in a mountain (Mt. St. Helens to be exact). If you go back to my opener and check the feat, it took three scoops to bring him to his knees. He didn't feel the first one (or if he did it wasn't stated). Not to mention that with the water (which is literally 20 feet away) it'll be over in a second flat. More on that in a later counter.

While on the battles forums, there's a fair amount of separation between blunt-force durability and piercing durability, I personally think that the difference is exaggerated. Piercing durability is just resistance to greater force per area. Spyro has survived the volcanic pressure that was literally tearing stone apart from the dragon temple, showing that his durability to force per area is greater than stone (which makes sense, given how Ape fodder can easily shatter stone). Yes, stuff like Kevlar gives way to shards of glass because the force is on only a few strands, so Percy's sword is definitely a threat, but it's not like we can dismiss Spyro's blunt durability.

Besides, the sword is a threat if Percy gets in close, and Spyro knows to avoid foes with bladed weapons, like Gaul, the ape king.

Yes, but Spyro was resisting the force all over his body; what would've happened if the pressure had hit a single concentrated spot on his body? We don't know, hence it's all questionable. However, because what you're saying does make sense, I think I can see Spyro taking a few blows.

All that said, if stone is Spyro's limit, then I already showed Percy cutting straight through metal (possibly magical/celestial bronze but unclear since the robots were made by a goddess). I'll show it again:

As the Nikette raised her had to catch it, Percy emerged from the trench behind her and slashed with Riptide, cutting the Nikette in half at the waist.

Blood of Olympus

As for avoiding blades, Gaul was a bloody giant with two huge swords. Quite different than a 6ft (my best estimate, he might be a bit taller) teenager with a regular-looking sword, but that's just my two cents. We still have to see if he can avoid the blade in the first place.

Physicals Counters: Spyro

True, I probably should have shown more regarding their durability. As for Ignitus, his battle still showed the physical strength Cynder had to overpower. In terms of durability, though, he also ignored explosions twice and took hits from apes (these are in the same video, with time stamps 10:40, 11:22, and 11:53. in The Eternal Night, which takes place shortly after the end of A New Beginning.

As for Terrador, we know that he and the other guardians turned the tides of battles with the apes. He's the second dragon shown, with a mace tail. Since he's depicted as the one fighting in close-quarters, it would seem rather far-fetched to say that he can't take a similar level of punishment as Ignitus, unless we think Terrador is on an entirely greater level of agility (which wouldn't make sense, given how they both fared against Cynder).

Gotta go back and remember what I said...

Yes! Spyro taking two repeated blows from Cynder actually is impressive, given what those blows have accomplished in the past. That's actually way more impressive than I thought it'd be. It would be a greater help if Percy were using the flat of his blade, but given that he's going to be carving Spyro up, it's not 100% useful. It does, however, seem to be able to help him when it comes to water attacks (specifically things such as the water hands).

Sorry about that; I mixed up URLs, and gifs and I don't get along well. Here's the feat.

As I mentioned earlier, the feat still holds some bearing, given that the purple dragon was fighting in blasts of air pressure strong enough to tear apart stone.

Both solid feats, nothing to counter here.

I think stone buster is downplaying Spyro, considering that those apes he one-shots not only no-sell smashing through stone, but they also take explosions that blow right through stone structures.

I didn't have much to go by when I said "stone-buster", but Spyro certainly does pack a hit. Whether it's enough to overcome Percy is what we'll have to see in the later sections.

Spyro doesn't need to be as fast as Percy is in melee combat. He just needs to be able to keep his distance, and as he can dodge an FTE strike, I'd say he has a fighting chance of doing so.

Which is why the general strategy will be to get Spyro in close; he might be able to stay in the sky forever, but Percy can stay underwater forever too.

While I agree that bullets are considerably faster than cannonballs, another difference in their feats is that while Percy had to move his sword an unknown distance to intercept it, Spyro had to move his whole body out of the way of a much larger projectile.

This is true, but as you mentioned, bullets are much faster. To be specific, three times faster. In battles between characters, even the slightest advantage in speed is still an advantage.

Is crossing swords, a strike, and a parry really "a long series of moves"? MFTE seems like a bit of a stretch.

When I said MFTE I meant in regards to humans (given Piper's feats which I'm still having trouble finding), not our characters. The reason I added the "long series of moves" is because I'm using Percy in his prime, and that Percy wasn't. Another reason is that we only saw what Piper saw; perhaps they did have more moves and Piper just couldn't perceive them; she said they were blurred.

However, because a lot of that was speculation, I'll bring it down a notch and say it's still FTE combat speed, which I don't think Spyro has been shown to match.

Besides, Spyro has another great dodging feat: while carrying Cynder (thus basically doubling his inertia and nearly doubling their surface area), he flew against wind currents while dodging hundreds of stones. While each stone likely wasn't moving faster than a bullet (though they would be going faster than what we perceive in relation to Spyro, since he's moving against their flow), the fact that he can maneuver around such a vast number means I doubt Percy can move faster than Spyro can perceive.

Well here's another tricky question; if Spyro can perceive Percy, what's to say he can move fast enough to do anything about it? Superman has been shown to perceive the Flash, but has always been slower.

All dem Elements

Seeing as how Percy was near-incapacitated by the lava, would he be able to summon water? Even if he does douse himself, saltwater is a decent conductor for electricity, and it could also be frozen by ice.

Could he summon water? Oh boy... In that instance he did summon water (with the lava) I just didn't show it. The instance I showed was:

He scooped lava out of the nearest furnace. It set his fingers ablaze, but this didn't seem to bother him at all. The other elder Telekhines did the same. The first one threw a glop of molten rock at me and set my pants on fire. Two more splattered across my chest. I dropped my sword in sheer terror and swatted at my clothes. Fire was engulfing me. Strangely, it felt only warm at first, but it was getting hotter by the instant.

"Your father's nature protects you," one said. "Makes you hard to burn. But not impossible, youngling. Not impossible"

The threw more lava at me, and I remember screaming. My whole body was on fire. The pain was worse than anything I'd ever felt. I was being consumed. I crumpled to the metal floor and heard the demons howling in delight...

Battle of the Labyrinth

Continuing the instance is Percy's single greatest showing of power, byfar:

PDF page 132
PDF page 132
PDF page 132
PDF page 132

The first one is the very end of one page and the second is what immediately follows. Percy, when under all that fire, triggered a volcanic explosion. He survived by landing in the water on a magical island, but this wasn't casual; he was out for weeks, woke up, then was out for another couple of days. Another thing to note is that he summoned water out of literally nowhere; now he has an entire ocean behind him.

As for the other elements, well the effect would be the same. Percy can just wash it off.

Is smashing a sofa and breaking the ceiling the same as destroying the whole mansion? Without context of how much was destroyed, that seems to be unclear.

I'm looking for the scans but I might've overblown it. I think the mansion crumbled afterwards, but I can't remember. What I do know for a fact is that the entire mansion was specifically stated to suppress demigod/magical powers, which makes that feat all the more impressive as well. Imagine that kind of firepower on a non-holding back Jason onto Percy. His lightning has also been described as hitting with the "force of an artillery shell" (Lost Hero PDF page 37).

That's a good counter for immobilization. However, in the time it takes Percy to summon the water, Spyro could attack with another element, like metal-busting earth blasts or golem-singing fire.

I admit that lightning likely isn't going to take Percy down. However, it allows Spyro to temporarily stun Percy in combat, acting as a near-unavoidable, mid range attack that could interrupt Percy's own offenses.

Ah, time. That's why I showed the Battle of the Labyrinth feat earlier on; Percy summoned water that got to a forest half a mile away in the span of about 3 seconds (it wasn't stated specifically, but there was literally no wait time between him activating his powers and the water arriving.

To put that into perspective, the 20 feet to an entire mile is .003 miles. Want me to be more specific?

One foot equals 0.000189393939 miles (source), but we don't want a mile, we want half a mile. 0.000189393939 / 2 = 9.46969695e-5. A number so small, it has to be exponentiated. Multiply that by 20 and we get 0.00189393939. In terms of mileage, that's how far the ocean is. Taking just the .001, Percy summoned water that was 500x farther away in three seconds. I think 20 feet is nothing, and considering the strategy is to go for the water first, summoning water will be no issue.

Even the poisonous fumes were called a liquid, so it could just be liquid poison floating in wind, like mist. Thus, I'm not sure Percy's controlled actual water vapour, and ice, unlike gases or liquids, is not considered a fluid.

As for melting in the sun, the ice just needs to last long enough for Spyro to follow up. Defensively, it just needs to stop a water offensive long enough for Spyro to move someplace else.

Yea, the whole ice manipulation thing on my part was speculation, it was never a big point of mine. As for the ice itself, I think I proved Percy can rather quickly wash it away with 20 ft of distance. At the very least, Percy'll be able to defend himself.

Of course, Spyro isn't going to want to enter close-range, but it would be a nasty surprise if he's forced to. As for the training dummies, Terrador was about to send Spyro to face Cynder and rescue Ignitus from a fortress full of apes. If the immobilizing effects weren't applicable in actual combat, it would seem that Terrador was just wasting Spyro's time, which is inconsistent with the Guardians' intentions.

I'll take it.

Strategy Counters

I admit that Spyro staying above the shown scenery and Percy staying deep in the depths would just be a boring stalemate. However, just as I think it would basically count as leaving the battlefield for Spyro to fly above 200 feet, I think Percy going beyond the shown water (which, unless there's a really steep drop-off, is just, what, 20 feet deep?) would also be leaving.

Then I guess we'd both lose via self-BFR. Either way, 20 feet is enough for Percy to stay under since he's going to have another 14ft of water above him. That's a good amount of protection, and considering he can move really fast underwater:

Then I jumped over the side.

I sliced into the water and willed the currents to bend around me, making a jet stream that shot me forward

Sea of Monsters pg 194
IIRC he can do that underwater too, but since I don't have proof, I won't speculate further. He can make jet streams above water, allowing him to move incredibly fast. Should be enough to dodge any incoming projectiles while he figures out a way to get Spyro closer.

Spyro can still freeze over sections of waves or blast through them with earth shots. He can also keep himself relatively unmoved from Ignitus's fire fury, when the apes behind him were sent flying. Combine that with his ability to fight in the air pressure of the erupting volcano, and he should be able to keep stable.

Well you mentioned Spyro going 200ft in the air. That's a lot of water to have to move through, considering a wave of that height would reach 150ft+ higher than what you called for on Spyro.

Spyro's elements do have a range, but unless Percy goes pretty far from the coast, he should still be in range for Spyro's various explosive blasts, especially the earth missiles. As sound propagates better through water than air (due to water being a denser medium), Percy probably would feel continuous shocks from the explosions. Electricity could also encourage Percy to take the fight to the land, since there's not much of a way to avoid it underwater.

Electricity would be a bit of a bother, but I've shown he can shoot up the water incredibly quick. We already established that it won't hurt him too much, but your earth missiles do seem to be a bit troublesome for Percy. Well...

Before I could protest, a thousand scraps of garbage surged off the bottom and flew at me from both directions: broken glass, rocks, cans, tires.

I was expecting it, though. The water in front of me thickened into a shield. The debris bounced off harmlessly.

Last Olympian, pg 178

While likely not as powerful as your explosion shocks, Percy's water shields should be able to diminish them enough so that he can survive them for longer.

In terms of healing, the showings seemed to revolve around cut wounds, so would that necessarily help with electrical shocks or concussion? Also, most of Percy's fights you've shown seem to be on land, or at least in relatively shallow water, so is it even in-character for him to hide under the depths for the whole fight? I admit that Spyro doesn't always keep to the air, but as shown against the golem (in the image) and against Malefor, it's not out of the question, either.

The majority is cut wounds, but it's never been shown on anything else because most of that verse uses swords. At the very least, he should be able to take a hit or two more than he normally would from Spyro.

As for your question, Percy's never had to fight a bona fide flyer. If he can't reach his target and he's getting hit from time to time by AoE attacks, there really isn't a better strategy than to wait for Spyro to come down.

For Percy's water spouts, Spyro can just freeze them or electrify them. As for making the sea solid, how does that lure Spyro down to the ocean.

If Percy makes the water solid, Spyro would be more likely to come down and fight on the ground (since that too is Spyro's forte). Sure he could land on the sand, but it's also likely he'd want to investigate solid water coming from nowhere. That would be his downfall.

Anyways, it seems to me that in the long-run, Spyro and Percy would have to fight in a place where both are accessible to the other; either in shallow water or on the shore. While Percy is faster in melee, Spyro can open up with lightning to briefly stun Percy, allowing him to use either an electric blast, earth missile, or ice stream to further incapacitate Percy and interrupt any water offenses. Doing so gives Spyro a chance to use fire, which, given that it hurts a golem that crawls our from what seems to be subterranean magma and no-sells volcanic heat, could overwhelm Percy's heat tolerance, preventing him from continuing the fight.

As has been mentioned, the electricity can only take you so far. Percy took 3 seconds (if that) to cover half a mile, now he has to cover something 500x smaller. I wouldn't be surprised if takes him the fraction of a second to get some water to him and blast Spyro.

Conclusion & Final Thoughts

The little purple dragon is going to put up one helluva fight, but he has no answer for the raw power that Percy brings in with his water. I've shown it reaching 350+ feet, causing hurricanes that lift massive 40ft long crocodiles, and sinking entire ships. The moment a wave hits Spyro, and it will, I've shown that they can drag him into the sea (fight with Carter Kane). Your main opening attack, electricity, is nigh-useless to Percy's resistance and with the distance from the water you won't be able to follow up on attacks. Percy is faster in both reactions and combat speed, and his sword will make quick work out of Spyro once he gets in close.

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Looking good so far. T4V please.

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@supremegeneration: That's fine: I hope you're feeling better!

I take it, then, that my last post will be the last? Any special rules, like about counters and stuff, or is it basically just another response post?

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Lol I remember when Skylanders used to be a Spyro game.

T4v

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@supremegeneration: That's fine: I hope you're feeling better!

I take it, then, that my last post will be the last? Any special rules, like about counters and stuff, or is it basically just another response post?

Yea, just no new stuff (anything that I wouldn't have had the chance to already counter).

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@supremegeneration:Alright, after the computer/Comic Vine ate my post, here's my conclusion!

The Purple Dragon:

Oops, wrong purple dragon. ;)
Oops, wrong purple dragon. ;)

Physicals:

It doesn't specify when they were fired, but given that his first action immediately upon uncapping his sword is slashing the volley, I think it's fair to say it was after they fired.

Fair enough on this and the spear feat.

I do agree that his fire is a menace, however it's diminished slightly by the heat resistance. Percy was also fired at with magma, as they were in a mountain (Mt. St. Helens to be exact). If you go back to my opener and check the feat, it took three scoops to bring him to his knees. He didn't feel the first one (or if he did it wasn't stated).

While I think your later counter of water is interesting, remember that the "golem of the deep," as Hunter calls it, is fine with being in underground magma and at the fiery foot of Malefor's volcano. In spite of that kind of heat resistance, Spyro's fire breath can deal visible damage to the golem, so, through direct comparison with magma, Spyro's attack should deal more damage than the magma Percy took.

We don't know, hence it's all questionable. However, because what you're saying does make sense, I think I can see Spyro taking a few blows.

All that said, if stone is Spyro's limit, then I already showed Percy cutting straight through metal (possibly magical/celestial bronze but unclear since the robots were made by a goddess). I'll show it again:

Fair enough on Spyro taking a few hits; however, as I don't think Spyro would be trying for pure melee combat, he shouldn't need to take more than that.

Also, if the metallic composition is unknown, I'm not sure how to compare it to Percy's stone cutting feats, though it's still a good showing.

As for avoiding blades, Gaul was a bloody giant with two huge swords. Quite different than a 6ft (my best estimate, he might be a bit taller) teenager with a regular-looking sword, but that's just my two cents. We still have to see if he can avoid the blade in the first place.

Gaul isn't the same as Percy, but the point is that Spyro has the experience to avoid engaging in just melee combat with a sword wielder.

It would be a greater help if Percy were using the flat of his blade, but given that he's going to be carving Spyro up, it's not 100% useful. It does, however, seem to be able to help him when it comes to water attacks (specifically things such as the water hands).

Spyro's ability to take blunt damage should pay off in dealing with Percy's attempts to wash him directly into the sea, though I agree that the sword is still a threat, as mentioned before.

Which is why the general strategy will be to get Spyro in close; he might be able to stay in the sky forever, but Percy can stay underwater forever too.

That's understandable. I admit that Spyro, against a non-aerial opponent, should likely eventually land on the ground, as he's done against Grublins (miniature, organic stone golems) and apes. However, there's no precedent for Spyro actually entering water (he's fought above a flooded valley), so Spyro, by his own volition, isn't going to be getting his claws wet. Thus, I don't see why Percy wouldn't eventually come out of the water, as many of the showings you've provided show him facing opponents with sword combat.

At least, Spyro should get Percy to fight in the shallows, like he seemed to do against Ares, unless I'm misinterpreting that section.

This is true, but as you mentioned, bullets are much faster. To be specific, three times faster. In battles between characters, even the slightest advantage in speed is still an advantage.

While I agree that Percy has an edge in speed, my point is that it doesn't seem too overwhelming. Bullets being three times faster seems less important if Spyro had to move, say, twice the distance Percy did.

However, because a lot of that was speculation, I'll bring it down a notch and say it's still FTE combat speed, which I don't think Spyro has been shown to match.

Well here's another tricky question; if Spyro can perceive Percy, what's to say he can move fast enough to do anything about it? Superman has been shown to perceive the Flash, but has always been slower.

As I've shown before, Spyro can at least dodge FTE attacks, so I don't see it as being enough to blitz. Also, my point about perception is that Percy shouldn't be able to completely surprise Spyro with his speed; in the example of the flying hail of storms, Spyro is fast enough to evade the projectiles, even with the encumbrance of carrying Cynder.

Elements:

Could he summon water? Oh boy... In that instance he did summon water (with the lava) I just didn't show it. The instance I showed was:

Continuing the instance is Percy's single greatest showing of power, byfar:

The first one is the very end of one page and the second is what immediately follows. Percy, when under all that fire, triggered a volcanic explosion. He survived by landing in the water on a magical island, but this wasn't casual; he was out for weeks, woke up, then was out for another couple of days. Another thing to note is that he summoned water out of literally nowhere; now he has an entire ocean behind him.

As for the other elements, well the effect would be the same. Percy can just wash it off.

If Percy did pull that off in this fight, wouldn't that, at best, be a mutual double KO? Besides, Spyro has fought in an erupting volcano (while above the falling Dragon Temple), so he should be capable of recovering.

Also, while you bring up that Percy has a more obvious source of water here, Mount Saint Helens (where you mentioned the feat took place) does seem to have a body of water nearby, as far as this image portrays it.

However, I agree that Percy summoning a smaller amount of water could help him out here...if he can do so through the pain of more intense heat from Spyro's fire breath.

I'm looking for the scans but I might've overblown it. I think the mansion crumbled afterwards, but I can't remember. What I do know for a fact is that the entire mansion was specifically stated to suppress demigod/magical powers, which makes that feat all the more impressive as well. Imagine that kind of firepower on a non-holding back Jason onto Percy. His lightning has also been described as hitting with the "force of an artillery shell" (Lost Hero PDF page 37).

While knowing that the mansion suppresses their powers makes the feat more impressive, remember that Spyro's use of electricity was his first time using it. I've shown that he's trained with Volteer, and his fire clearly improved (as shown by burning the golem). Thus, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Spyro's improvement in electric mastery is at least comparable to how Jason's lightning would improve outside of the mansion.

Ah, time. That's why I showed the Battle of the Labyrinth feat earlier on; Percy summoned water that got to a forest half a mile away in the span of about 3 seconds (it wasn't stated specifically, but there was literally no wait time between him activating his powers and the water arriving.

To put that into perspective, the 20 feet to an entire mile is .003 miles. Want me to be more specific?

One foot equals 0.000189393939 miles (source), but we don't want a mile, we want half a mile. 0.000189393939 / 2 = 9.46969695e-5. A number so small, it has to be exponentiated. Multiply that by 20 and we get 0.00189393939. In terms of mileage, that's how far the ocean is. Taking just the .001, Percy summoned water that was 500x farther away in three seconds. I think 20 feet is nothing, and considering the strategy is to go for the water first, summoning water will be no issue.

A note about that calculation:

1 mile is 5280 ft, so 1 ft/ 1 mile = 0.00018939. However, 1 ft per half a mile is actually twice that (1 ft, (5280/2 = 2640 feet per half mile), 1 / 2640 =3.7879 e-4, or four times 9.46969 e-5. 3.7879e-4 * 20 = 0.0758 = 20 ft / half a mile. 1/0.0758 = 132, so Percy summoned water that was 132 times further away.

It's still a good speed feat for his water attacks; no question there. However, in the instances you've shown Percy recover from lightning hits, he's done so after a little time passed. Thalia was apologizing when Percy recovered, and Jason had time to talk with Piper before Percy recovered. In that span of time of incapacitation, Spyro can close the distance and open up with powerful fire or earth attacks. In fact, Spyro can just use the lightning continuously while approaching.

Yea, the whole ice manipulation thing on my part was speculation, it was never a big point of mine. As for the ice itself, I think I proved Percy can rather quickly wash it away with 20 ft of distance. At the very least, Percy'll be able to defend himself.

That's fair; I don't think Spyro is going to win by turning Percy into an ice cube. It's mostly for defensive purposes against water constructs.

Strategy

IIRC he can do that underwater too, but since I don't have proof, I won't speculate further. He can make jet streams above water, allowing him to move incredibly fast. Should be enough to dodge any incoming projectiles while he figures out a way to get Spyro closer.

I've shown Spyro's flight speed in escaping the vortex while dodging the stones, so if Percy stays on the surface with water jets, Spyro can just approach and lob projectiles. An electric blast would probably conduct through the sea water, so I doubt Percy would want to fly along the surface like that.

Well you mentioned Spyro going 200ft in the air. That's a lot of water to have to move through, considering a wave of that height would reach 150ft+ higher than what you called for on Spyro.

While the wave is taller than what Spyro would probably want to reach, the thickness of the wave is what would matter. The purple dragon can simply freeze over a section with ice breath, as he did to the river's surface, then shatter it like he did to the metal bell.

While likely not as powerful as your explosion shocks, Percy's water shields should be able to diminish them enough so that he can survive them for longer.

Between the water healing and this, I agree that Spyro should realize aerial bombardment isn't a clear path to victory. On the other side, though, I'd imagine shockwaves, electricity, and superheated/chilled projectiles being thrown into the water would encourage Percy to head for the shore, especially if Spyro lands first.

The majority is cut wounds, but it's never been shown on anything else because most of that verse uses swords. At the very least, he should be able to take a hit or two more than he normally would from Spyro.

As for your question, Percy's never had to fight a bona fide flyer. If he can't reach his target and he's getting hit from time to time by AoE attacks, there really isn't a better strategy than to wait for Spyro to come down.

While that should let Percy recover from hits, it seems like an extended elemental assault could still put him down.

As for the flier bit, I agree that Spyro is going to eventually have to come down. However, I don't see Spyro as being foolish enough to fight Percy, a clear water-manipulator, in the water.

If Percy makes the water solid, Spyro would be more likely to come down and fight on the ground (since that too is Spyro's forte). Sure he could land on the sand, but it's also likely he'd want to investigate solid water coming from nowhere. That would be his downfall.

I mean, Spyro has traversed through poisonous bogs before, and he's fought above fields of lava. I don't see why he would risk stepping onto the water, especially when, by that point, Spyro would have seen Percy manipulate the water.

Endgame:

While initially, I think Spyro would take to the air, Percy can defend inside the water. In turn, Spyro can use ice/earth, in concert with his flight speed, to evade getting pulled down by water. Even if he does get smacked by a wave, his pressure-resisting feats should let him recover.

As that would seem to be an unnecessary stalemate, Spyro would land on the beach. As he could still lob projectiles into the water, Percy would want to exit the ocean to engage in close-quarters-combat--just as he's done in many of the showings you've presented. Spyro, with his experience with bladed opponents, would know to try and go for long-distance attacks. As Spyro can react to FTE attacks, he should be able to strike with electricity, as he did against the skeletal warriors.

With Percy temporarily incapacitated--possibly by a continuous shock--Spyro can then approach, using fire, his seemingly preferred element for mid-close range. As it's hotter than magma, it should be capable of knocking Percy unconscious. Even if Percy does summon a desperate pressure blast, like what happened with Mt. St. Helens, that's at best a double KO, and Spyro has the pressure durability to potentially be the one standing after the water settles.

That's it, I guess! I had a lot of fun with this debate, and it was nice to have a CaV with a non-Metroid character (even if I couldn't resist putting Ridley in somewhere. :)

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SupremeGeneration

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cdiddyman911

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I'll get a vote up sometime today

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SupremeGeneration

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Vote bumpity

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Jmarshmallow

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Great CaV, really enjoyed reading through it. Haven’t seen Spyro used in one in a hot minute, really brings back the nostalgia, and Riordan’s work is easily one of, it not my favorite, book series.

That being said, I want to keep my vote as unbiased as possible.

You both did excellently, really well done. But my vote would have to go to @supremegeneration:

And the reason for that is that while I think both did an absolutely stellar job covering their own individual characters, it seemed that neither really knew the capabilities for their opponents’ character at the start of the debate.

Which is a good thing, in my own opinion, makes it more challenging and fun to come up with unique counters.

And I feel Supreme did just that. While both of you were very thorough with game plans to tackle your opponents characteristics, it seemed to me that Amethyst ended up making more concessions to Supreme’s points than vice versa.

The fact that it came down to such a minor discrepancy just goes to show that it really coulda gone either way, you two really nailed it.

Now for a constructive criticism sandwich!

Amethyst: You really know your characters and that shows, but your style was more reactive rather than proactive which allowed your opponent to gain several advantages over your character, however you bounced back admirably, intelligently, and refined. A cool head and a willingness to yield and press forward is respectable.

Supreme: Very thorough and unrelenting debating style, really let’s you take control of a debate and guide it where you want it to go. That being said, you spent more time defending your points than you did questioning his. It made your defense impregnable, but you took your hand off the wheel, so to speak. However, you continually brought your defense back around to “BUT this is how Percy wins with this defense,” thus controlling the focus.

Well done, to the both of you!

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Revan-

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@revan-: That's not quite how voting works...

It's about the arguments, not the username. ;)

@jmarshmallow: Thank you for the feedback, and for voting! It's good to have feedback on debating skills, and I'm glad you took the time to really explain your vote.

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After reading about the purple dragon it seems to me that he would most likely win. Because he is more durable and stronger then percy is and the fact he can control 4 elements. Percy will give a hell of a fight but i feel the purple dragon would eventually tke percy down. As for Percy's healing, the water doesnt heal him that quickly

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@maximusprime223: You don’t base your vote on who would win. You vote based on who debated better.

Now if Amethyst convinced you more, then give him your vote!

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@supremegeneration: It's been a while, but are we going to close voting for this one? With the only well-explained voted being Jmarshmallow's (I don't know if MaximusPrime223 was voting from the arguments or the characters), I'd be fine with saying you won; it was an awesome debate!