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#1 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio

Orochimaru

represented by AlexTheBoss

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VS

Ichigo

represented by universeichigo1

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Rules:

Ichigo is how he was in his fight with Bayakuya, Orochimaru is healthy with his arms unsealed.

Battle takes place in the cleared forest where Orochimaru fought Naruto.

Fight until death, ko, or until they can no longer fight back.

Vote for the debater who you think made the best case on why their characters wins, and please give reasons for your choice.

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#2 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by diydeath (2311 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#5 Posted by ourmanuel (8204 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for every single thing, including vote.

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#6 Posted by Darthjhawk (5192 posts) - - Show Bio

Welp Oro is fuelling my nightmares again

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#7 Posted by grappolo (2883 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Darthjhawk (5192 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (486 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. This gonna be good.

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#10 Posted by Smokak (489 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#11 Edited by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. The creepy pedo vs the emo wannabe ninja....lmao.

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#12 Edited by ovy7 (1919 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#13 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7495 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#16 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (3278 posts) - - Show Bio

This still happening? TV4.

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#17 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by deactivated-5c0b60e7cb512 (1483 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V , this should be interesting

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#21 Posted by Tektonic (1030 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V also tag after every post.

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#22 Posted by ourmanuel (8204 posts) - - Show Bio

Y’all couldn’t have chosen a better pic for Orochimaru? Dude straight up looks like a child molester stalking kids at a park.

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#23 Posted by xZone (9569 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and after every post

X

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#24 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio

Y’all couldn’t have chosen a better pic for Orochimaru? Dude straight up looks like a child molester stalking kids at a park.

To be fare I think he was stalking kids at the time of that scan, lmao.

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#25 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (3340 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please, this seems interesting.

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#26 Edited by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio

Orochimaru

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Orochimaru is one of the three sannin, who were considered some of the strongest ninja of their time. His goal is to become immortal so he can learn every jutsu.

Taijutsu (hand to hand combat/physicals)

While not his most noteworthy trait, Orochimaru is actually a very powerful taijutsu user. He has the skill and strength to at the very least contend with Ichigo.

He was able to compete with the 3rd Hokage, who was one of the strongest ninjas alive at the time.

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Orochimaru can extend his neck to attack, landing a bite on Jiraiya, one of the other Sannin.

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after the fight Jiraiya had broken bones, most likely from his taijutsu scuffle with Orochimaru.
after the fight Jiraiya had broken bones, most likely from his taijutsu scuffle with Orochimaru.

With just his tongue he was able to smash Jiraya into the ground and can quickly redirect himself with his sword coming out of his mouth stabbing Tsunade, another sannin, through the body.

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Was able to knock Tsunade down with a sword swing.

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He was able to land a good punch on 4 tails Naruto.

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With just the power of his neck he was able to push 4 tailed Naruto across a forest.

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Keep in mind even kid Naruto and Sasuke are extremely strong, both of whom got toyed with by Orochimaru.

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Ninjutsu

Oroachimaru has a vast amount of jutsu that give him a massive versatility edge int his fight.

Basic wind style jutsu.

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Basic fire style jutsu.

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Can create copies of himself, which will be useful in confusing Ichigo, who is a very straight forward fighter.

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Has the ability to seal powers inside of someone. He can use this to possibly seal Ichigo's hollow powers.

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Reanimation Jutsu:Orochimaru can summon the dead to help him in combat. Since he needs their body parts to perform the summon, I'll just restrict him to summoning the 1st and 2nd Hokage like he did against the 3rd Hokage, and keep them restricted to the power they were able to show in that fight under Orochimaru's control.

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They were strong enough to compete with the 3rd Hokage, who was considered one of the strongest ninja of the time.

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Orochimaru can summon his sword out from his body. The sword can also extend very long distances.

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He can summon giant snakes.

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That can create large amounts of destruction.

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He can summon an even larger and stronger snake named Manda.

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He can spawn a large amount of snakes out of his mouth and arms, and can create a new body out of his mouth to avoid damage.

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note that Orochimaru's snakes also have poison.
note that Orochimaru's snakes also have poison.
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Triple Rashomon: summons 3 giant walls that were able to protect Orochimaru from 4 tailed Naruto's tailed beast bomb.

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Orochimaru's 8 headed serpent technique.

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Can use small snakes to secretly poison his opponents.

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Genjutsu

Orochimaru hasn't used much genjutsu, but he could completely freeze people in fear.

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Sasuke had to stab himself to snap him out of it

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More examples of him freezing people with just a glare.

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If Ichigo gets frozen by this Orochimaru can capitalize on the moment and go for the kill.

Speed

Kakashi was fast enough to cut lightning,

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and he was so outclassed by Orochimaru he knew fighting him would mean certain death.

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A sick Itachi was also able to react to a lightning speed attack hundreds of times faster than sound, and Orochimaru's reaction time shouldn't be that far behind his.

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This should be enough to put Orochimaru at a low level lightning timer, which is better than anything soul society Ichigo has unless you take a guide book hyperbole has fact.

Durability

Orochimaru takes a direct punch from Tsuande and recovers almost instantly.

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Tsunade is extremely strong.

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Orochimaru takes a strike from 3 tails Naruto, creating a massive explosion and shockwave, and only loses an arm, which he is able to regenerate along with a whole new body.

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Naruto creates a massive shockwave that Orochimaru was able to resist.

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Got cut in half by 4 tailed Naruto, but just reattached his body. This will be especially useful against Ichigo's cutting attacks.

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After getting hit by the part of Naruto's tailed beast bomb that made it through his triple rashumon, he was able to attack back right away.

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Reasons Why Orochimaru wins

Orochimaru has the strength feats and a powerful sword that will allow him to engage Ichigo in close quarters combat. He can also generate snakes out of his body or just stretch out his own head to throw Ichigo off guard. He can poison Ichigo with a large or small snake that he implants into his clothes secretly. Orochimaru is arguably faster due to being a lightning timer, while Ichigo could barely react to mach 500 in the fake katakura town arc with his hollow mask, when he was much faster than he was during the soul society arc. At the very least Orochmaru will be able to react to Ichigo, and due to Orochimaru being more versatile that gives him the win. If all else fails he can abuse summoning, as Ichigo won't be able to deal with multi building sized snakes launching themselves at him while Orochimaru and possibly the reanimated kages are attacking him at the same time. Even if Orochimaru gets hit he can put his body back together or just make a new one, while one misstep from Ichigo could have him killed.

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#27 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by ourmanuel (8204 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems alright

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#30 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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ICHIGO KUROSAKI

BIO

Ichigo Kurosaki is a human Substitute Soul Reaper for the Soul Society, who protects his friends and family above all else. Unlike most characters he really doesn't have an end goal. Ichigo will still protect everything he cares for even at the cost of his life and/or amazing powers. He was unsure of his powers and job but has come to embrace them as a part of himself and uses those powers for the greater good.

I will go right to the point in this and tell you why ichigo wins.

With what you have shown i could conclude that orochimaru is slow, well when compared with ichigo that is, you haven't given any valid confirmation of orochimaru's speed here:

Kakashi was fast enough to cut lightning,

sure, but how does that directly address orochimaru's speed it only give a reference for how fast kakashi is.

and he was so outclassed by Orochimaru he knew fighting him would mean certain death.

the fact that kakashi was hesitant to fight orochimaru does not necessarily mean it was because orochimaru was faster in fact they made no reference to speed, it could be that he was scared of the amount of skill and power orochimaru had, like his summons, regenerative abilities or genjutsu. The amount of possibilities of the reason kakashi hesitated are to much to be narrowed down to only speed.

A sick Itachi was also able to react to a lightning speed attack hundreds of times faster than sound, and Orochimaru's reaction time shouldn't be that far behind his.

Why should orochimaru be scaled to itachi when there is nothing to connect the two in respect to speed.

This should be enough to put Orochimaru at a low level lightning timer, which is better than anything soul society Ichigo has unless you take a guide book hyperbole has fact.

No it isn't nearly enough, you seem quick to bring up that guide book statement and refer it has an hyperbole mean while i wasn't planning on using that as a reference, but that doesn't mean i completely disregard that statement, in fact i consider it to be somewhat accurate.

ichigo after his training with urahara was fast enough to evade a surprise attack from gin's sword which is similar to that he evaded later in the series

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not only did he react but he made a full arm movement in other to block the atttack, and gin himself has state his sword to be 500 times the speed of sound

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even if this was in his bankai, bankai increases the power by five times it's normal so it will put the speed of the shikai ichigo dodge at mach 100 which already by itself is greater than what you have shown for orochimaru, this also puts bankai ichigo at speeds faster than lightning.

bankai ichigo could also react to byakuya at point blank range

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i will leave it here but this is more than enough to prove ichigo is in many ways faster than orochimaru.

i will like to also talk on ichigo's skill set. I won't claim ichigo has better skills that orochimaru but he isn't far behind, being able to fight one on one with byakuya

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and beat 2 lieutenants and 1 vice captain with his bare hands

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he can also create after images of himself in other to confuse orochimaru

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although speed did play a part in his skill feats, it will also play a huge part here because what good is your skill if you are just going to get blitzed to death.

You have shown orochimaru being capable of tanking impressive attacks, but those attacks do not account for his piercing durability which is ichigo's main source of attack even his gestga tenshou is a piercing attack being capable of slicing deep into the ground and large bolders wide open

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i am confident that if an attack was to hit orochimaru which will it will eradicate a large portion of his body if not the whole thing and i doubt orochimaru can come back from vaporization. orochimaru does have regeneration but what is to say he could regenerate if his head was cut in half or his brain destroyed and how long could he keep that up.

mean while without a doubt ichigo has tanked way better attack than orochimaru can dish out.

he tanked being punched through large bolders by urahara

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survives an attack from thousands of swords that creates a crater in the ground

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Now to what could be the main issue here Genjutsu, you said he doesn't use it much, but if some how in the middle of a heated battle orochimaru uses it i doubt it will be of any advantage as ichigo has incredible will power and has faced fear before and overcame it

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and if that doesn't work ichigo still has a inner world which protects him and is in constant contact with him

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Why Ichigo Wins

Without a doubt Ichigo has shown to be faster than orochimaru which means orochimaru would not be able to land a single attack on ichigo and ichigo could very easily land the killing blow and end the fight, Ichigo has also shown to be able to harm and kill orochimaru with his piercing attacks, although orochimaru has been seen to tank beast bombs that was with a shield to protect him the actual explosion would have vaporized him as you, yourself shown that a smaller attack left orochimaru without an arm

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and i don't think orochimaru would have that time gap to put up such a shield against ichigo tenshou due to the speed gap, neither would orochimaru have the time to catch ichigo in genjutsu even if he did (which is very unlikely) ichigo has shown to have amazing will power and you have shown that it can be defeated by will power. Overall ichigo is just to quick for orochimaru and can deliver the killing blow at anytime meanwhile his opponent is to slow to react to any of those attacks.

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#31 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by universeichigo1 (1820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by ourmanuel (8204 posts) - - Show Bio

👍🏾

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5c0b19c56d708 (624 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#35 Edited by Zuriel-el (2933 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

tag for votes, do not lose this (u're already ahead).

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#36 Posted by Death_Trumpet (475 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please

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#37 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio

Snaking my way to victory

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Counters

With what you have shown i could conclude that orochimaru is slow, well when compared with ichigo that is, you haven't given any valid confirmation of orochimaru's speed here:

If anything Orochimaru has a more solid speed placing, as he is at a level where he outclasses someone who is a lightning timer when they were younger.

sure, but how does that directly address orochimaru's speed it only give a reference for how fast kakashi is.

Considering he casually dodges the attack Kakashi used to cut lightning, I think it's pretty clear he is on that level.

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Why should orochimaru be scaled to itachi when there is nothing to connect the two in respect to speed.

When it comes to raw speed they should be about the same level, but the gif above is enough to prove my point.

If we go by the official data books part 1 Kakashi's speed is 4 (this one would be the one who could cut lightning), part 2 Kakashi and Orochimaru have a 4.5 speed stat, and Itachi has a 5. So Oroachimaru is right up there with them, and pretty much everything story wise puts him on that level as well.

not only did he react but he made a full arm movement in other to block the atttack, and gin himself has state his sword to be 500 times the speed of sound

That was his bankai.

even if this was in his bankai, bankai increases the power by five times it's normal so it will put the speed of the shikai ichigo dodge at mach 100 which already by itself is greater than what you have shown for orochimaru, this also puts bankai ichigo at speeds faster than lightning.

Bankais are a 5-10x difference, so if Gin was telling the truth and his bankai was mach 500, then Ichigo during the soul society arc could possibly react to speeds of mach 50.

bankai ichigo could also react to byakuya at point blank range

But how fast is Byakuya?

i will leave it here but this is more than enough to prove ichigo is in many ways faster than orochimaru.

You proved via scaling that Ichigo may have mach 50 reaction time, which relies on scaling and Gin telling the truth when he already said he lied about his sword's speed to Aizen (yes he didn't say he lied to Ichigo, but we do know he is untrustworthy), while Orochimaru could casually dodge an attack that cut lightning.

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You have shown orochimaru being capable of tanking impressive attacks, but those attacks do not account for his piercing durability which is ichigo's main source of attack even his gestga tenshou is a piercing attack being capable of slicing deep into the ground and large bolders wide open

Piercing attacks mean nothing to Orochimaru.

Now this below attack by Kakashi sealed Orochimaru, but that's because it was the special totska blade. When Orochimaru thought it was a regular giant sword he called it a puny attack and something like that couldn't take down the likes of him. And that sword was so large it pretty much divided Orochimaru's upper body completely. So if a piercing attack like that is nothing to him, why would Ichigo's piercing attacks be any different?

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i am confident that if an attack was to hit orochimaru which will it will eradicate a large portion of his body if not the whole thing and i doubt orochimaru can come back from vaporization. orochimaru does have regeneration but what is to say he could regenerate if his head was cut in half or his brain destroyed and how long could he keep that up.

Naruto's tailed beast bomb was far stronger than that attack from Ichigo, and Orochimaru showed that getting cut in half wasn't a big deal at all, and that was a weakened Orochimaru that wasn't even in his original body and didn't have access to all of his ninjutsu due to his hands being sealed.

mean while without a doubt ichigo has tanked way better attack than orochimaru can dish out.

he tanked being punched through large bolders by urahara

That feat isn't as impressive as Orochimaru spearing 4 tailed Naruto miles through a forest with his sword generated just by his neck muscles.

survives an attack from thousands of swords that creates a crater in the ground

That crater is tiny compared to the one 4 tailed Naruto made that didn't damage Orochimaru.

Now to what could be the main issue here Genjutsu, you said he doesn't use it much, but if some how in the middle of a heated battle orochimaru uses it i doubt it will be of any advantage as ichigo has incredible will power and has faced fear before and overcame it

and if that doesn't work ichigo still has a inner world which protects him and is in constant contact with him

Sure, but him being frozen for just a second could cost him his life.

Without a doubt Ichigo has shown to be faster than orochimaru which means orochimaru would not be able to land a single attack on ichigo

I think you failed to prove this.

and ichigo could very easily land the killing blow and end the fight,

Orochimaru regenerates.

Ichigo has also shown to be able to harm and kill orochimaru with his piercing attacks, although orochimaru has been seen to tank beast bombs that was with a shield to protect him the actual explosion would have vaporized him as you,

yourself shown that a smaller attack left orochimaru without an arm

Orochimaru mocked him after that attack saying he wasn't in the same league as Sasuke, and Sasuke at that time was weaker than prime Orochimaru.

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and i don't think orochimaru would have that time gap to put up such a shield against ichigo tenshou due to the speed gap, neither would orochimaru have the time to catch ichigo in genjutsu even if he did (which is very unlikely) ichigo has shown to have amazing will power and you have shown that it can be defeated by will power. Overall ichigo is just to quick for orochimaru and can deliver the killing blow at anytime meanwhile his opponent is to slow to react to any of those attacks.

Ichigo doesn't have a massive AOE attack that would even make him use the rashomon in the first place, but if he were to charge up a super powerful getsugatenshou he could probably bring them out in time if he needs to. Any quick attack from Ichigo won't have enough power to threaten Orochimaru due to his regen. And your biggest argument seems to be Ichigo's speed advantage, which from the feats you've shown would be mach 50 reaction speed + scaling his bankai which is faster, while Orochimaru was faster than a guy who could react lightning which is mach 300.

Summary

-Orochimaru has more solid evidence proving his speed superiority.

-Orochimaru has strength feats at least on par with Ichigo.

-Orochimaru counters Ichigo due to being extremely resistant to slicing/piercing attacks, and I've shown examples of both being non effective against him.

-Genjutsu can make Ichigo slip up for long enough for Orochimaru to take him out.

-You didn't give a counter for Orochimaru poisoning Ichigo with a small snake he won't notice.

-You didn't explain how Ichigo would deal with Manda and multiple other giant snakes Orochimaru can summon at once.

-In his white snake mode he gives off a poison that will immobilize Ichigo, so if Orochimaru goes into this form and if Ichigo cuts him up, he will become paralyzed and get killed.

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#38 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by FaradaySloth (6485 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#40 Posted by ourmanuel (8204 posts) - - Show Bio

Imagine getting ready to sleep and seeing that pic of Oro...

Nice post either way.

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#42 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15758 posts) - - Show Bio
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