“Those who do not understand true pain can never understand true peace.”
Character Theme: Peace Through Pain
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I. An Introduction To Nagato Uzumaki
Bio
Nagato (長門, Nagato) was an Amegakure shinobi who was a descendant of the Uzumaki clan. Nagato dreamed of bringing peace to the warring shinobi world by forming the Akatsuki with his pals (and fellow war orphans) Yahiko and Konan. Following Yahiko's death, Nagato assumed the moniker Pain (ペイン, Pein) and, together with Konan, began heading a new Akatsuki - one that would use all means necessary to bring the world to peace.
Lineage
Being part of the Uzumaki clan gives Nagato enormous amounts of chakra compared to most shinobi giving him more stamina than most.
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Kekkei Genkai: Rinnegan
One of Nagato's most noticeable futures upon first look would be his Rinnegan, The Rinnegan is characterized by the concentric circles covering his eyeball. This eye is the most highly regarded of all Dojutsu's (Byakugan, Sharingan) and gives Nagato huge amounts of versatility that I would get into later.
II. An Introduction To Nagato's Arsenal
In this section I will be talking about Nagato's Rinnegan abilities and other Ninjutsu he can use that will give him the edge in this match.
Deva Path
Allows Nagato to control both attractive and repulsive forces.
By far his largest-scale use of this technique was when he eviscerated an entire village in one humungous Shinra Tensei that gives Nagato multiple minutes before he could use his abilities again, this huge scale use of the Shinra Tensei leveled kilometers of land in seconds.
Bansho Tenin: The complete opposite of Shinra Tensei, allows Pain to attract anything in his vicinity towards himself.
Also has a 5-second cooldown after each use.
Asura Path
Grants the user the ability to augment their own body to summon mechanized armor and various ballistic and mechanical weaponry.
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Human Path
By placing his hand on the target's head Human Path forces his victim into a comatose status, where he/she cannot move nor do any other action, like an empty shell. Of course, this means the victim will be completely exposed to any single attack.
This Path can not only read the minds of any person it holds into but it can also yank souls away from someone's body.
The Human Path's strength resides in strategy and surprise attacks, as shown when he used a ninja bomb to create confusion and take Shizune's life. "Divide and Conquer".
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Human Path is going to be the worst possible opponent for Obito, especially cuz he has zero knowledge about the Paths nor preparation...and no way to counter Human Path ability. Getting tagged by him means death, in a way or another. Literally 1-touch-1-kill.
Preta Path
Has the ability to absorb and nullify every Jutsu (either energy, elemental, and solid type) in the blink of an eye.
The Range: Preta Path can absorb Jutsu either via direct touch or via a barrier, which fully covers his whole body for a 360° protection/absorption and nullification.
The Speed and Size: as shown during SM Jiraiya's battle Preta absorbed a huge tidal wave of boiling oil (Sage Art, hence Natural Energy aswell) in a blink of an eye, so fast that Jiraiya, Shima, and Fukasaku didn't understand what really happened.
The Quantity: Preta's absorption ability seems to have barely any limits in both quantity and type of Jutsu, since he absorbed Sage Arts and every other type of Ninjutsu, including Elemental Type, Solid Type, and Energy Type. He absorbed every Jutsu the Konoha Shinobi threw at him and later on SM Naruto's ones.
Physical Absorption: Preta can also directly suck away all the energies of his opponent by touching them.
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Scan 1-2: Preta absorbs massive amounts of oil almost instantly.
Scan 3: Preta absorbing Naruto's energy.
The ability managed to revert V2 Bee into Base in only seconds.
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Animal Path
Giant Chimera: It's one of the most dangerous Animal Path's Evocations thanks to its ability to keep growing in number every time it takes damage, making Chimera extremely hard to put down permanently. As stated by Nagato the only way to put down Chimera is defeating the Summoner. The beast tanked several types of attacks: electrocution, physical attacks, severing his limbs, and even KCM Naruto Jutsu's. Everything was useless. Even trying to incap it by turning it into a mud statue or block it under a gigantic dome was useless. In addition, Chimera can just split himself into single monsters in order to attack from multiple directions. It's also strong enough to keep up and overpower Gamaken (that should not be inferior to Gamabunta), creating massive explosions during their fight.
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Giant Chameleon: probably the most useful Summon in Animal Path's arsenal. This beast allows Pain mobility and complete invisibility, allowing him/them to spam attacks (example: Nagato used Shinra Tensei while invisible) or else without being noticed, unless someone has precog abilities. It can also use its snake-tail to block the movements of its victims.
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Giant Panda: The giant panda had the ability to harden its body, creating a defensive barricade for its summoner.
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The Other Giant Rinne-Beasts (Rhino, Ox, Centipede, Lobster): while the other Evocations are not as versatile as the 3 above, these beasts can still provide damage and good distractions. They can also easily destroy solid multi-story buildings.
The Rhino was also shown breaking out from Ibiki Morino's Iron Maiden, which trapped it inside a huge Maneki Neko statue and sent it deep underground.
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Naraka Path
Interrogation: To interrogate, the Naraka Path need only catch hold of a person, causing the King of Hell to appear before them. With the victim seemingly paralyzed, the Naraka Path begins questioning them. After answers are given, the King of Hell will unzip its mouth to release tendril-like arms and would draw out an apparition of the victim's life force energy in the form of an enlarged tongue. The King of Hell would then proceed to pass its judgment. If the person was lying or refused to answer the questions, the King of Hell would remove their tongue and consume it, apparently killing them. However, if they told the truth, they would be spared, although left extremely exhausted.
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Repairing: The second ability the Naraka Path possessed is the ability to repair any damage. To do so the Naraka Path has the King of Hell ingest the damaged body with its tendril-like arms into its mouth, then, after some time, the destroyed body will emerge from its mouth, completely rejuvenated. It did this for example to the Asura Path after it was destroyed by Chōjiand Chōza Akimichi. With its restorative abilities, the Naraka Path can easily be regarded as the most valuable body if the Six Paths of Pain is being used through six different bodies. During formation, Nagato puts the Naraka Path at the rear behind the sentimental Deva Path with the other four taking the front lines.
These abilities should be enough to show most of you just how much versatility Nagato has in the fight.
For those unaware, the people you see using these abilities in the scans are known as the Paths of Pain lifeless corpses that Nagato gave his powers unto and indirectly controlled. They are not included in this battle but their feats are included since they have Nagato's powers and are being controlled by him indirectly.
III. Nagato's Speed
Scaling Nagato's speed is quite simple, Nagato scales above Kakashi who managed to react and tag lightning as a child according to his own rival Might Guy.
Easily placing Kid Kakashi at MHS bare minimum.
This is important because 2 of Nagato's Paths/Corpses his controlling easily defeated a much stronger and experienced Kakashi with relative ease, even killing him.
However, it would be an understatement to say that Nagato caps at MHS, why? Because Nagato scales to KCM Naruto who can dodge a point-blank Sub-Rel punch from the Raikage.
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This punch which was stated to be the fastest according to the Raikage should be faster than his Lariat, which was stated to be near light speed (I take it as Sub-Rel since it near LS could mean as low as 1%)
Nagato not only fought KCM Naruto who dodged the Raikage's fastest punch, but he also fought Itachi and Bee at the same time both should be atleast relative to KCM Naruto for keeping up with him.
I think it's fair to say Nagato scales to Sub-Rel solidly.
IV. My Personal Conclusion
I didn't bother to scale AP since both Nagato and Orange Mask Obito are more hax-based than AP-based, but Nagato's versatility will prove too much for Obito to handle, I didn't waste my time adding any unnecessary abilities that Obito could counter pretty easily and only added the ones that would actually play a role in the fight
Obito will be overwhelmed by Nagato's versatility and summons and would eventually be forced to use Kamui and go intangible, after 5 minutes when Obito goes physical, Pain can go for a quick Bansho Tenin to force Obito into his hands and go for a quick soul snatch with Human Path.
The only win condition Obito has would be BFR through Kamui which won't happen to Nagato considering how much pressure he has to deal with.
"Am I sweating?... No, it's just rain these fools would never make me sweat"
Opening OST: Theme of the Saviour
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Brief Bio
For Those who don't Know who Obito is , here's a "Brief" Bio. Obito Uchiha (うちはオビト, Uchiha Obito) was a member of Konohagakure's Uchiha clan. He was believed to have died during the Third Shinobi World War, his only surviving legacy being the Sharingan he gave to his teammate, Kakashi Hatake. In truth, Obito was saved from death and trained by Madara, but the events of the war left Obito disillusioned with reality, and he inherited Madara's plan to create an ideal world. Resurfacing under the names of Tobi (トビ, Tobi) and Madara Uchiha himself, Obito subtly took control of the Akatsuki, using them as a means to advance his machinations, eventually going public and starting the Fourth Shinobi World War. However, towards the war's conclusion, Obito had a change of heart and, as atonement, sacrificed his life to save the same world he sought to replace.
1) Versatility of the Saviour
Let's start off with the Hax , Versatility and overall capibilities of Obito.
Sharringan
The Sharringan (写輪眼,literally meaning:Copy Wheel Eye,meaning (Viz):Mirror Wheel Eye) is the dōjutsukekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan that appears selectively among its members.
The eye grants the user three basic abilities. It grants the user immense enhanced overall kinetic vision, perception speed and precog:
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With increased kinetic vision and perception, the Sharingan allows the user to copy movements rather effortlessly.
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Genjutsu
The Sharringan Allows Obito to utilize GenjutsuI ,which are illusionary techniques or TP. Obito has used Genjutsu on Several Occasions.
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I belive this will be Highly affective Against Nagato as this would allow Obito to completely control him. Obito has controlled and affected far more powerful beings with his Genjutsu such as the Nine tails , and while Nagato does posses the Rinnegan , the Rinnegan has never showcased or displayed resistance to Sharringan based Genjutsu.
Mangekyo Sharringan
The Mangekyō Sharingan (万華鏡写輪眼, literally meaning: Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye) is an advanced form of the Sharingan that has only been activated by a handful of Uchiha. This Grants Obito a specific Ability that I'll go over in the next section.
2) Power of the Kamui
This is Obito's Bread and Butter and Main form of both Offence and Defence. Using this Ability He's capable of Transporting Any Part of his Body into another dimension , thus giving him a form of intagibility and rendering all form of physical attacks Useless
Kamui's only quote on quote "weakness" is that it can only be used for a maximum of 5 minutes at a time , however this weakness can be dealt with via simply turning tangible and then activating Kamui Again , essentialy reseting the 5 Minute time Limit. Kamui can also Be Used offensively , by touching his opponents Obito can suck them into the Kamui Dimension , essentialy BFR'ing them.
Obito Can also Use Kamui for Complete teleportation , He's capable of Teleporting or "warping" himeself to the Kamui Dimension or anywhere he wishes
In Short kamui Grants Obito The Perfect defense and offense , as well as granting him a form of Transportation.
3) The "Trump" Card: Izanagi
Izanagi is a genjutsu that is cast on the user instead of others and is the most powerful amongst this type of genjutsu. When activated, the caster removes the boundaries between reality and illusion within their personal space. To a degree this allows the user to control their own state of existence. Although to do this Obito does Sacrifice one of his Sharringan , However the results are worth it.
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This essentialy allows Obito to Rewrite Reality and survive things he shouldn't be capable off. , this Ensures that if Nagato does Somehow manage to get Obtio in a fatal possition , the Izanagi would allow him to survive whatever Nagato does to him. Nagato also would be caught off guard like this Just Like I've shown Konan was in the Scans above. As Nagato would assume Obito's Dead and wouldn't expect anything else. nagato Being caught off Guard is also something that has happened before.
In the scan Above we see Itachi Stab nagato with teh totsuka blade as While Nagato is more than Fast enough to React , He was cuaght off guard and didn't expect to be attacked. The Same can Be applied to this fight , If nagato manages to do anything fatal to obito he'd logically assume he's dead however via the use of Iazanagi Obito would be able to survive anything Nagato woudl attempt to do to him , catch him off Guard Just like Itachi did and suck him into the Kamui dimension.
4) Speed of the Saviour
I've always found Speed to be a Crucial Part of Anydebate , luckly for Obito he has some highly impressive speed feats that place him at comparable speeds to that of Nagato. Here we see Obito (As a 14 Year old kid Mind you) react to the likes of Minato ,
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Obito Manages to not Only React to and activate his powers faster than minato could hit him , but he begins to warp Minato to the Kamui dimension faster than Minato can react , if it wasn't for Minato's Teleportation (Minato had already set up teleportation Markers prior to the engagment with Obito) he would've lost that fight. This is highly impressive to say the least as Minato is a character who can scales massively above the likes of kid kakashi
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Kid kakashi is a character who as my opponent Mentioned is capable of reacting to and tagging lightning , Easily placing Kid Kakashi at MHS bare minimum. Bare in mind Minato scales above him by a Significant amount and Obito (As a 14 Year old Kid Mind you) is capable of reacting to this same Minato and activate powers faster than Minato can react , this would at bare minimum Place Obito around the MHS+ _ Sub relativistic levels of speed. to Further support this , Not only does Minato scale above Kid Kakashi but he scales above the Raikage.
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Raikage states that since Minato died he is now the fastest Ninja , Implying that when Minato was alive he was the fastest and Minato is also capable of reacting to point blank attacks from the Raikage and throwing his Kunai faster than the Raikage can percieve or move. The Reason all this matters is because Raikage is a character who is capable of (while using his lariat) moving at speeds near light. This would bare minimum be at Sub relativitic and despite this , The Raikage himeself considers Minato to be faster than him. The same Minato that a 14 Year old Obito could React to. Here we also see Obito react to and activate his kamui faster than the raikage can blitz him , this feat just supports my scaling. Overall I think It's comfortable to put Obito in the sub relativstic levels of speed (if not faster) and I belive I've proven he's that fast.
5) Counters
Deva Path
Allows Nagato to control both attractive and repulsive forces.
By far his largest-scale use of this technique was when he eviscerated an entire village in one humungous Shinra Tensei that gives Nagato multiple minutes before he could use his abilities again, this huge scale use of the Shinra Tensei leveled kilometers of land in seconds.
Bansho Tenin: The complete opposite of Shinra Tensei, allows Pain to attract anything in his vicinity towards himself.
Also has a 5-second cooldown after each use.
Asura Path
Grants the user the ability to augment their own body to summon mechanized armor and various ballistic and mechanical weaponry.
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None of these abilities will be useful given the fact that Obito can turn completely intangible , all these attacks will simpluy pass through him.
Animal Path
Giant Chimera: It's one of the most dangerous Animal Path's Evocations thanks to its ability to keep growing in number every time it takes damage, making Chimera extremely hard to put down permanently. As stated by Nagato the only way to put down Chimera is defeating the Summoner. The beast tanked several types of attacks: electrocution, physical attacks, severing his limbs, and even KCM Naruto Jutsu's. Everything was useless. Even trying to incap it by turning it into a mud statue or block it under a gigantic dome was useless. In addition, Chimera can just split himself into single monsters in order to attack from multiple directions. It's also strong enough to keep up and overpower Gamaken (that should not be inferior to Gamabunta), creating massive explosions during their fight.
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Giant Chameleon: probably the most useful Summon in Animal Path's arsenal. This beast allows Pain mobility and complete invisibility, allowing him/them to spam attacks (example: Nagato used Shinra Tensei while invisible) or else without being noticed, unless someone has precog abilities. It can also use its snake-tail to block the movements of its victims.
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Giant Panda: The giant panda had the ability to harden its body, creating a defensive barricade for its summoner.
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The Other Giant Rinne-Beasts (Rhino, Ox, Centipede, Lobster): while the other Evocations are not as versatile as the 3 above, these beasts can still provide damage and good distractions. They can also easily destroy solid multi-story buildings.
The Rhino was also shown breaking out from Ibiki Morino's Iron Maiden, which trapped it inside a huge Maneki Neko statue and sent it deep underground.
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The Animal summonings themselves don't have any impressive speed feats to suggest they'll be able to even tag obito and Kamui renders them completely useless as they a can't even harm him
Naraka Path
Interrogation: To interrogate, the Naraka Path need only catch hold of a person, causing the King of Hell to appear before them. With the victim seemingly paralyzed, the Naraka Path begins questioning them. After answers are given, the King of Hell will unzip its mouth to release tendril-like arms and would draw out an apparition of the victim's life force energy in the form of an enlarged tongue. The King of Hell would then proceed to pass its judgment. If the person was lying or refused to answer the questions, the King of Hell would remove their tongue and consume it, apparently killing them. However, if they told the truth, they would be spared, although left extremely exhausted.
Another ability that requires physical contact and Once again it's rendered completely useless via Kamui.
Repairing:The second ability the Naraka Path possessed is the ability to repair any damage. To do so the Naraka Path has the King of Hell ingest the damaged body with its tendril-like arms into its mouth, then, after some time, the destroyed body will emerge from its mouth, completely rejuvenated. It did this for example to the Asura Path after it was destroyed by Chōjiand Chōza Akimichi. With its restorative abilities, the Naraka Path can easily be regarded as the most valuable body if the Six Paths of Pain is being used through six different bodies. During formation, Nagato puts the Naraka Path at the rear behind the sentimental Deva Path with the other four taking the front lines.
This also won't be too useful as Obito's method of Combating nagato will be through Mind hax or BFR. So they won't really be much physical damage inflicted on Nagato and thus there won't be anything to repair.
Black Path
Has the ability to absorb and nullify every Jutsu (either energy, elemental, and solid type) in the blink of an eye.
The Range: Preta Path can absorb Jutsu either via direct touch or via a barrier, which fully covers his whole body for a 360° protection/absorption and nullification.
The Speed and Size: as shown during SM Jiraiya's battle Preta absorbed a huge tidal wave of boiling oil (Sage Art, hence Natural Energy aswell) in a blink of an eye, so fast that Jiraiya, Shima, and Fukasaku didn't understand what really happened.
The Quantity: Preta's absorption ability seems to have barely any limits in both quantity and type of Jutsu, since he absorbed Sage Arts and every other type of Ninjutsu, including Elemental Type, Solid Type, and Energy Type. He absorbed every Jutsu the Konoha Shinobi threw at him and later on SM Naruto's ones.
Physical Absorption: Preta can also directly suck away all the energies of his opponent by touching them.
Obito (especially this version of him) Doesn't use Much large scale Ninjutsu attacks so there won't be much to absorb. This is also a physical attack which once again can get easily countered by Kamui
By placing his hand on the target's head Human Path forces his victim into a comatose status, where he/she cannot move nor do any other action, like an empty shell. Of course, this means the victim will be completely exposed to any single attack.
This Path can not only read the minds of any person it holds into but it can also yank souls away from someone's body.
The Human Path's strength resides in strategy and surprise attacks, as shown when he used a ninja bomb to create confusion and take Shizune's life. "Divide and Conquer".
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Human Path is going to be the worst possible opponent for Obito, especially cuz he has zero knowledge about the Paths nor preparation...and no way to counter Human Path ability. Getting tagged by him means death, in a way or another. Literally 1-touch-1-kill.
This by far is the biggest threat and most useful ability Nagato has in this fight , but there are a few methods of dealing with it.
1) Your claim that the Human path forces you in a "comotose" State is false , In the scans you've provided all we See is the Human Path rip out the souls of it's victims. Those victims not resisting or reacting to the human path could be due to the fact that the Human path is faster than them , there's absolutely nothing to suggest they were in a "comotose State" To Further support this being the case , here wee See Naruto literally move and even pull back his own soul as Nagato attempts to rip it out:
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2) This Attack requires physical contact but that again gets countered via Kamui , obito Could simply turn intangible and render the attack useless
3) If Somehow This Attack manages to be succesful Obito could always use his Izanagi to survive this. nagato would logically assume Obito is dead and would get caught off Guard , Tagged , and BFR'd.
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This punch which was stated to be the fastest according to the Raikage
I don't really have to much of a Problem , with Your speed scaling however I don't recall this being stated , If it is please do provide the statement in your next post , however if it isn't. I see no reason , Proof or evidence that suggests this Punch is Faster than the Raikage's Lariat.
Obito will be overwhelmed by Nagato's versatility and summons
I heavily Disagree , Most Of Nagato's Versatility are physical attacks that would be rendered useless due to Kamui as for the Summons I have yet to se any speed feats to suggest they can even tag Obito so they'll mainly serve as distractions which can easily be dealt with via genjutsu or completely avoided via Kamui.
after 5 minutes when Obito goes physical,
I don't see what stops Obito from Going tangible and then intangible again , esentially restarting the timer? , he's also more than fast enough to react to Nagato's attacks.
Pain can go for a quick Bansho Tenin to force Obito into his hands and go for a quick soul snatch with Human Path.
Obito has several ways to counter this , the first and most obvious would be to just warp away as he's being pulled. Kamui grants him the ability to Warp away to any location he wants , so as Nagato is pulling him he can easily just warp away before Nagato gets his hands on him and then proceed to warp back.
The Second would be to utilize Izanagi which would allow him to survive the Soul Snatch and Catch nagato off Guard.
The only win condition Obito has would be BFR through Kamui which won't happen to Nagato considering how much pressure he has to deal with.
BFR Isn't Obito's only win condition , he's capable of winning via Genjutsu (Unless you can prove that the Rinnegan can block out Sharringan genjutsu) Obito Can easily deal with that "pressure" as most of Nagato's atttacks won't be affective , All he has to do is look at Nagato or Touch him once and the fight is as good as over , and unlike Obito who has Izanagi and Kamui to counter Nagato's One-Touch Kill abilities , Nagato has no way of dealing with Genjutsu or kamui.
Conclusion
Just Like with my opponent I didn't bother to gover AP as both Obito and Nagato are more Hax based Characters. Obito has the speed to compete with Nagato , He has the Means and capabilities of Dealing with any of Nagato's Abilities , Obito's high level Mind hax via his Genjutsu is something that Nagato has no way of dealing with (Unless proven otherwise) , Izanagi essentially gives Obito a Second chance at life and would alow him to Catch nagato off Guard , Kamui Renders all of Nagato's physical attacks useless and can be used to win the fight via BFR'ing nagato just by Touching him once.
With that Being said I'm done with My Post , Thank you all for reading.
Kamui's only quote on quote "weakness" is that it can only be used for a maximum of 5 minutes at a time , however this weakness can be dealt with via simply turning tangible and then activating Kamui Again , essentialy reseting the 5 Minute time Limit. Kamui can also Be Used offensively , by touching his opponents Obito can suck them into theKamui Dimension, essentialy BFR'ing them.
This isn't the Kamui's only weakness, Obito himself is vulnerable in-between the moment he materializes and teleports.
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Nagato could easily go for a quick attack the moment Obito turns tangible again before using Kamui.
In the scan Above we see Itachi Stab nagato with teh totsuka blade as While Nagato is more than Fast enough to React , He was cuaght off guard and didn't expect to be attacked. The Same can Be applied to this fight , If nagato manages to do anything fatal to obito he'd logically assume he's dead however via the use of Iazanagi Obito would be able to survive anything Nagato woudl attempt to do to him , catch him off Guard Just like Itachi did and suck him into the Kamui dimension.
1) Kabuto was controlling Nagato up until he was stabbed meaning it was Kabuto who was off-guard and failed to react.
2) There was a smokescreen concealing the Itachi's Susanoo.
3) Every time a person gets off-guard from Izanagi it's usually because there were factors playing in, take the above for example, or even the following:
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In the scan above the only reason Sasuke was off-guard was because the Susanoo's arms were concealing Danzo's body and Sasuke didn't see Danzo's full body and just assumed he was dead.
None of these abilities will be useful given the fact that Obito can turn completely intangible , all these attacks will simpluy pass through him.
Pain can still use them when his animal summons distract him, he can also use the moves when Obito's 5 minute Kamui limit runs out.
The Animal summonings themselves don't have any impressive speed feats to suggest they'll be able to even tag obito and Kamui renders them completely useless as they a can't even harm him
Who says they have to tag and fight Obito? Being simple distractions is good enough and will give Nagato an option for a surprise attack.
Obito (especially this version of him) Doesn't use Much large scale Ninjutsu attacks so there won't be much to absorb. This is also a physical attack which once again can get easily countered by Kamui
Again, Nagato could still use it when Obito is distracted by the summons or if the Kamui's 5 minute limit runs out.
And the Preta Path doesn't just absorb ninjutsu attacks, it can also absorb someone's chakra from their own body, which is quite handy especially when Kamui requires chakra to activate, it's gg for Obito if his chakra runs out.
This by far is the biggest threat and most useful ability Nagato has in this fight , but there are a few methods of dealing with it.
1) Your claim that the Human path forces you in a "comotose" State is false , In the scans you've provided all we See is the Human Path rip out the souls of it's victims. Those victims not resisting or reacting to the human path could be due to the fact that the Human path is faster than them , there's absolutely nothing to suggest they were in a "comotose State" To Further support this being the case , here wee See Naruto literally move and even pull back his own soul as Nagato attempts to rip it out:
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2) This Attack requires physical contact but that again gets countered via Kamui , obito Could simply turn intangible and render the attack useless
3) If Somehow This Attack manages to be succesful Obito could always use his Izanagi to survive this. nagato would logically assume Obito is dead and would get caught off Guard , Tagged , and BFR'd.
I have alot of problems with this section of yours.....
1) Just because someone is faster than you doesn't mean they can't try to resist their grip especially when that person is standing still.
You could clearly see in the scan above that the Shinobi is literally dripping saliva on his mouth when Human Path touches his head (this is before the Human Path pulls the guy's soul off of him) it's almost as if the guy was brain dead.
This was also seen when Human Path did the same to Shizune
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Also, you tried debunking this by posting a scan of Nagato ripping Naruto's soul from his body which is not a good debunk considering that the other 2 scans I've showed you shows that if Nagato touches a person's head (Not body) they do indeed go into a comatose like state.
2) I've already said many times that Nagato could use this when Obito is distracted by the Animal summons or if his Kamui 5 minute limit is up.
3) Too bad he'll lose one eye in the process considering that is the downside of Izanagi.
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As I've said again earlier, most of the people who got off-guard due to Izanagi had special factors that made them fail to react to it.
I don't really have to much of a Problem , with Your speed scaling however I don't recall this being stated , If it is please do provide the statement in your next post , however if it isn't. I see no reason , Proof or evidence that suggests this Punch is Faster than the Raikage's Lariat.
Here is the scan
I heavily Disagree , Most Of Nagato's Versatility are physical attacks that would be rendered useless due to Kamui as for the Summons I have yet to se any speed feats to suggest they can even tag Obito so they'll mainly serve as distractions which can easily be dealt with via genjutsu or completely avoided via Kamui.
I've already said this multiple times, again and again, Nagato could use those attacks when Obito is distracted by the summons or if Obito's 5 minute Kamui limit is up, also it's not like Obito can just instantly deal with all of the animals at once, it will take him some time.
I don't see what stops Obito from Going tangible and then intangible again , esentially restarting the timer? , he's also more than fast enough to react to Nagato's attacks.
And Nagato could exploit that by quickly attacking him before he goes intangible again.
Obito has several ways to counter this , the first and most obvious would be to just warp away as he's being pulled. Kamui grants him the ability to Warp away to any location he wants , so as Nagato is pulling him he can easily just warp away before Nagato gets his hands on him and then proceed to warp back.
The Second would be to utilize Izanagi which would allow him to survive the Soul Snatch and Catch nagato off Guard.
And what if Nagato decides to absorb Obito's chakra instead of using soul rip? That would prevent him from using Kamui considering it's a jutsu that requires chakra, and again Izanagi would make Obito blind in one eye giving him a slight disadvantage after.
BFR Isn't Obito's only win condition , he's capable of winning via Genjutsu (Unless you can prove that the Rinnegan can block out Sharringan genjutsu) Obito Can easily deal with that "pressure" as most of Nagato's atttacks won't be affective , All he has to do is look at Nagato or Touch him once and the fight is as good as over , and unlike Obito who has Izanagi and Kamui to counter Nagato's One-Touch Kill abilities , Nagato has no way of dealing with Genjutsu or kamui.
The problem with this is the same reason Madara didn't use Genjutsu when he became a Juubi Jinchuriki, this is because of versions, Obito has only been shown to use Genjutsu to manipulate people into causing chaos, nowhere has he used it mid-battle, and even then this version of Obito (Orange Mask) has never even used Genjutsu on-screen. Both scans that showed Obito using Genjutsu were from when he was a younger person, nowadays he will rely on Kamui and Izanagi only.
Strategy: Why Nagato Still Has The Edge
Obito is a person who literally relies on a single move to do most of the work (Kamui) this move has exploitable weaknesses, Nagato could for the most part try to attack Obito the moment he becomes tangible again, his animal summons could still pose as a good distraction to Obito who will have to take some time to get rid of them, Izanagi is a move will make Obito lose one of his eyes giving him a slight disadvantage after using it, Genjutsu is something a much less experienced and younger Obito used, this version of Obito (Orange Mask) has never used Genjutsu on-screen ever. Nagato for the most part has more ways of winning this than Obito has, while I'll concede that some Paths like Naraka wouldn't be of any good use it still wouldn't matter in the end.
Conclusion: Thanks For Reading
Had a fun time doing this, but at the end of the day nothing has changed, Nagato still beats him.
This isn't the Kamui's only weakness, Obito himself is vulnerable in-between the moment he materializes and teleports.
This isn't really a weakness considering Obito is More than fast enough to React to Nagato.
Nagato could easily go for a quick attack the moment Obito turns tangible again before using Kamui.
In Which Obito could reply with Genjutsu or Izanagi to survive said attack.
1) Kabuto was controlling Nagato up until he was stabbed meaning it was Kabuto who was off-guard and failed to react.
Kabuto controlling Nagato Wouldn't Change Nagato's Ability to percieve or react to something. Nagato merley being under control doesn't then All of a sudden replace his speed or ability to react with Kabuto's , it's still Nagato's movement and reaction speed and thus a feat showcasing Nagato being caught off guard.
Every time a person gets off-guard from Izanagi it's usually because there were factors playing in, take the above for example, or even the following:
This isn't true especially when you look at when Obito has made use of the Izanagi. Here we see Konan get completely caught off guard By Obito's Use of Izanagi , There are no "Factors" at play , She assumes she's won the battle and that Obito is dead , she then proceeds to get Caught off guard and attacked by obito.
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In the scan above the only reason Sasuke was off-guard was because the Susanoo's arms were concealing Danzo's body and Sasuke didn't see Danzo's full body and just assumed he was dead.
This really isn't Relevant considering I've already provided an Instance of the Character being used in this fight utilizing Izanagi in a different manner.
Pain can still use them when his animal summons distract him, he can also use the moves when Obito's 5 minute Kamui limit runs out.
I fail to see how they can distract him as all there attacks would simply go through him. And they don't have any speed feats to suggest they can tag him. As I've stated before Nothing Stops Obito from reseting the Time limit by Turning Tangible and then Intangible again.
Who says they have to tag and fight Obito? Being simple distractions is good enough and will give Nagato an option for a surprise attack.
Again You've failed to prove how exactly they would distract him as all their attacks would simply pass through him , I have yet to see any reason Obito would even have to pay attention to them.
Again, Nagato could still use it when Obito is distracted by the summons or if the Kamui's 5 minute limit runs out.
Why Would Obito Be Distracted by the summons?? , You keep claiming this and yet you fail to prove it. I have yet to see a single speed feat or ability to suggest they can pose any form of distraction to Obito. And Once again Nothing stops Obito from reseting the Time limit by Turning Tangible and then Intangible again.
And the Preta Path doesn't just absorb ninjutsu attacks, it can also absorb someone's chakra from their own body, which is quite handy especially when Kamui requires chakra to activate
I already stated that this requires physical contact to absorb the Chakra directly from a Person's body and thus will get completely countered by Kamui.
You could clearly see in the scan above that the Shinobi is literally dripping saliva on his mouth when Human Path touches his head (this is before the Human Path pulls the guy's soul off of him) it's almost as if the guy was brain dead.
This is due to the fact that Nagato or "pain" was trying to get information and was reading the Shinobi's Mind. In this fight there would be no reason for him to attempt to get information from Obito , Nagato would be trying to Kill him and when using the Human Path with the intention of Killing someone. The Characters can still Move/Fight back as showcased with Naruto.
Also, you tried debunking this by posting a scan of Nagato ripping Naruto's soul from his body which is not a good debunk considering that the other 2 scans I've showed you shows that if Nagato touches a person's head (Not body) they do indeed go into a comatose like state.
Again Nagato was trying to Read the minds of the victims in both of the scans you provided. In this fight he'd have no reason to do that and he'd be trying to Kill Obito , Not Get info from him. That "comotose" state only applies to when your mind is being read , When Nagato is actually trying to kill his oppoenents The Characters can still Move/Fight back as showcased with Naruto.
I've already said many times that Nagato could use this when Obito is distracted by the Animal summons or if his Kamui 5 minute limit is up.
You have yet to proof or explain how and why The Animal summonings pose any form of distraction , I've already addressed and explained that Obito can reset the timer by turning Tangible and then intangible again.
Too bad he'll lose one eye in the process considering that is the downside of Izanagi.
It will be worth the sacrifice , Obito also has quite a few of spare sharringan so he could always transplant another one.
As I've said again earlier, most of the people who got off-guard due to Izanagi had special factors that made them fail to react to it.
To attempt to prove that you brought up irrelevant Characters. However I've already shown Obito Himeself using Izanagi in a manner that catches his opponents off guard.
Here is the scan
In the Scan the Raikage explains that it's his fastest Punch , He never claims it's his fastest Attack.
The Lariat isn't a Punch It's a clothesline. Can you explain How this statement would prove the puch is faster than the Lariat as their clearly two different attacks and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that his punch would be faster than the Lariat.
I've already said this multiple times, again and again, Nagato could use those attacks when Obito is distracted by the summons
You still haven't proven why the summons would be a distraction though. They don't have the speed to do anything to Obito and their attacks would simply pass through him , he doesn't even need to pay them any attention as there's nothing they can do to him.
or if Obito's 5 minute Kamui limit is up, also it's not like Obito can just instantly deal with all of the animals at once, it will take him some time.
Obito can simply turn tangible and then intangible again to reset the time limit. He wouldn't need to Deal with the animals at all nor would he need to pay any form of attention to them , they lack the speed an capabilities of doing anything to him and posing any form of distraction.
And Nagato could exploit that by quickly attacking him before he goes intangible again.
Obito's fast enough to react to that. He's Reacted to Characters just as if not faster than Nagato.
And what if Nagato decides to absorb Obito's chakra instead of using soul rip? That would prevent him from using Kamui considering it's a jutsu that requires chakra, and again Izanagi would make Obito blind in one eye giving him a slight disadvantage after.
A Simple Genjutsu would deal with this Rather easily , as he'd be able to completely control Nagato or even cast an illusion and trick him. And Again he's fast enough to react to Nagato.
The problem with this is the same reason Madara didn't use Genjutsu when he became a Juubi Jinchuriki, this is because of versions, Obito has only been shown to use Genjutsu to manipulate people into causing chaos, nowhere has he used it mid-battle, and even then this version of Obito (Orange Mask) has never even used Genjutsu on-screen. Both scans that showed Obito using Genjutsu were from when he was a younger person, nowadays he will rely on Kamui and Izanagi only.
This just isn't true for several Reasons
1) I literally Showed A Scan of Obito using Genjutsu for combat. Here Obito uses Genjutsu to control the Nine-Tails (A Being Far more powerful than Nagato) What does he do with the controlled Nine-Tails? he proceeds to Atatck the Leaf Village.
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2) Orange mask Obito Not using Genjustu on Screen is Completely incorrect , Here we see him Put konan under a Genjutsu
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Overall You've failed to provide any legitimate counters to Obito's Genjutsu , You argument consists off Obito not using it for combat and this version of Obito Not Using it on screen. But I've proven both claims aren't not true.
Obito is a person who literally relies on a single move to do most of the work (Kamui)
Considering that Single move makes him the perfect counter for Nagato It isn't really much of a weakness.
Nagato could for the most part try to attack Obito the moment he becomes tangible again,
Obito is more than fast enough to react to Nagato and he could simply use Izanagi to survive any fatal attack Nagato decides to use.
his animal summons could still pose as a good distraction
You haven't proven that.
Izanagi is a move will make Obito lose one of his eyes giving him a slight disadvantage after using it,
Izanagi esentially gives Obito a Second chance as Both Nagato and Obito can win just by Making Contact but Only Obito could survive this and come out on top.
Genjutsu is something a much less experienced and younger Obito used, this version of Obito (Orange Mask) has never used Genjutsu on-screen ever.
Genjutsu is something that both this version of Obito and Several other versions of Obito Prior to this have used.
Nagato for the most part has more ways of winning this
Most of Which will be ineffective.
Conclusion
Obito still holds the victory here. He's fast enough to compete with Nagato , Most if not all of Nagato's attacks are rendered useless due to Obito's Kamui. Izanagi is something that Grants Obito esentially a second try , which is something Nagato doesn't have. Genjutsu could be used to trick or completely control Nagato and it's something that Nagato has no real means of countering.
This isn't really a weakness considering Obito is More than fast enough to React to Nagato
It is a problem because Nagato can incapacitate Obito in two different ways.
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With restricted movement caused via Nagato's Gravity Manip, or direct incapacitation, what is there implying Obito would be able to do anything? it's not about speed, you can't dodge Gravity manip, you need to resist it, and as far as I remember this incarnation of Obito has zero feats saying he can resist Nagato's Gravitational Pull.
In Which Obito could reply with Genjutsu
The Rinnegan Is capable of negging The Infinite Tsukuyomi which is in every sense of the word, superior to Obito's Genjutsu or any other Genjutsu in the series for that matter, Obito's Genjutsu cannot break through the Eyes of the Sage of the Six Paths.
There is no difference between Madara's Rinnegan and Sasuke's ( except Limbo, Amenotejikara, and design, which is a completely irrelevant difference ) so the basic nature of it, including visual prowess and resistances, would be the same as each other, Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan, so he would also have similar properties against Genjutsu.
OBVIOUSLY, the techniques done by the latter are superior by every measure but that's more to do with their power level than it having to do with their Dojutsu level, resistances, and e.t.c.
or Izanagi to survive said attack
Using Izanagi is practically committing suicide.
Obito is no Sasuke or Madara and is completely and utterly reliant on his Dojutsu, Without Kamui, he would be hopeless, as we can see in this scan when Madara used Izanagi, he lost his one eye before he even came to life.
Obito would too and Without Kamui, he is completely hopeless against even Pain, let alone the far superior Nagato.
Kabuto controlling Nagato Wouldn't Change Nagato's Ability to percieve or react to something. Nagato merley being under control doesn't then All of a sudden replace his speed or ability to react with Kabuto's , it's still Nagato's movement and reaction speed and thus a feat showcasing Nagato being caught off guard
....................
Nagato is not in control of himself and is being artificially controlled by someone who doesn't know shit about Nagato and his abilities, Kabuto himself was the one who got caught off guard, because in this case its Kabuto's job to move Nagato fast enough to avoid the Totsuka blitz, do not put Kabuto's incompetence over Nagato smh.
This isn't true especially when you look at when Obito has made use of the Izanagi. Here we see Konan get completely caught off guard By Obito's Use of Izanagi , There are no "Factors" at play , She assumes she's won the battle and that Obito is dead , she then proceeds to get Caught off guard and attacked by obito.
As you mentioned yourself, she thinks she has won, that's how Obito off guards her and takes her down.
Anyways, using Izanagi, in this case, is pointless, because Nagato is FAR more durable than Konan who got pierced via a rod lol.
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Pain on the other hand has survived Bijuudamas which would yield far superior kinetic energy in comparison to just a simple backstab from Obito
Obito also physically overpowered Konan a moment after the backstab, the same cannot be done to a Healthy Nagato as he can just abuse Gravity Manip.
This really isn't Relevant considering I've already provided an Instance of the Character being used in this fight utilizing Izanagi in a different manner
Your still making this faulty point?
I fail to see how they can distract him as all there attacks would simply go through him. And they don't have any speed feats to suggest they can tag him. As I've stated before Nothing Stops Obito from reseting the Time limit by Turning Tangible and then Intangible again
They are large, powerful, and can cause large AOE attacks which could destroy the platform Obito is standing on, Seeing that Obito is still bound by gravitational force
and this brings us to our next point, even a semi-intangible Obito is bound by the gravitational force, when he should not be, but he still is.
Gravity is a force of pulling something, and intangible Obito cannot resist it.
Why would he resist Nagato's Gravitational Pull too? He has never been shown to resist a Gravitational pull.
and about " turning intangible again"
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Facial expressions are a great pathway to the Intent of the author, Looking at Konan and Obito in these two scans, it's pretty clear that Obito would be D-E-A-D when the technique fulfills, so its not as simple as "turn intangible again "
Now we come to our next question, why would the Kamui have a time limit if it's as flawless as you imply it to be?
Kakashi uses immense amounts of chakra for his Kamui, the same makes sense for Obito.
Obito of course, having far more chakra than Kakashi, can do it more but he abuses it equally.
So the only real logical reasoning here is that Obito, same as Kakashi, runs completely out of chakra due to intangibility, so As every person, there would be SOME cooldown after 5 Minutes of intangibility.
Again You've failed to prove how exactly they would distract him as all their attacks would simply pass through him , I have yet to see any reason Obito would even have to pay attention to them
AOE, pain using them for defense, omnidirectional attacks stopping him from being tangible e.t.c.
I already stated that this requires physical contact to absorb the Chakra directly from a Person's body and thus will get completely countered by Kamui
Examples of Chakra Absorption in Naruto
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Scan 1: Madara directly touching Hashirama's neck
Scan 2: Madara absorbing a Rasenshuriken point-blank
Scan 3: Momoshiki absorbing Naruto's chakra point-blank
All these scans prove is that you need to be close to what you are absorbing, physical touch isn't mentioned anywhere.
This is due to the fact that Nagato or "pain" was trying to get information and was reading the Shinobi's Mind. In this fight there would be no reason for him to attempt to get information from Obito , Nagato would be trying to Kill him and when using the Human Path with the intention of Killing someone
The person is incapacitated the moment the hand is put on their head, again, you are baselessly claiming it happened because he started reading his mind, but it happens before he reads the mind.
. The Characters can still Move/Fight back as showcased with Naruto
The Obvious Difference Between a Head and a Chest
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What this shows us:
Shizune is incapacitated before the mind is read, as The Path says " Do not move or she dies" and Pain then says Mount Myoboku just a bit later, meaning that the incapacitation happens before the mind-reading.
He touches the head, just like he did earlier, meaning the head is the one that is needed to be touched in order for the incapacitation hax.
What this shows us:
Naruto is being touched at the chest, not the head, meaning the incapacitation condition as displayed by feats is not met.
Nagato, who would obviously have more knowledge of his own eyes and their abilities than a guy who thinks he is close to Hagoromo, is being mind-controlled and not used properly by Kabuto.
These two uses are far from the same.
It will be worth the sacrifice , Obito also has quite a few of spare sharringan so he could always transplant another one.
We are not assuming he has access to his entire Sharingan storage, he might as well go blind upon Using Izanagi, then he dies, simple as that.
To attempt to prove that you brought up irrelevant Characters. However I've already shown Obito Himeself using Izanagi in a manner that catches his opponents off guard
He only caught Konan off guard with it, even then it was after she thought she won.
In the Scan the Raikage explains that it's his fastest Punch , He never claims it's his fastest Attack.
First of all
The only thing this scan is saying is that the power is doubled.
If the speed was increased that would also be mentioned but it isn't so the implication the lariat is substantially faster than Raikage rushing at full speed is unsubstantiated.
KCM Naruto > Jonin Minato Speed scaling
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Scan 1: Raikage states that Minato is faster than him and that he doesn't think anyone can touch him.
Scan 2: Minato dodged Raikage's fastest punch.
But there is a large difference between his fastest punch against Minato and Naruto.
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Scan 1: Minato has a very tense look on his face as the Raikage's punch is just inches away from his face.
Scan 2: Naruto casually looks at the Raikage's Punch with a face that barely cares.
We can conclude that Naruto has better reactions than Minato, why?
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Scan 1: Minato dodged by teleporting through a kunai he placed before, Ay immediately notices "!!".
Scan 2: Naruto dodges the Raikage's punch and moves multiple meters behind him with pure physical speed before he can even react.
Not only that but the Raikage was also enranged when fighting KCM Naruto, unlike in his fight with Minato.
By both ways, KCM Naruto is superior to Jounin Minato who is superior to Ay in speed, any arguments for Ay's Growth are simply not substantiated seeing how his younger self have no concrete anti-feat or feat which establishes him as more powerful or weaker, Hokage Minato has feats much above his Jounin self tho who already outdid A.
Not only did Nagato fought KCM Naruto, but he was also effortlessly destroying him, Itachi, Killer B even while he was under the control of Kabuto who doesn't have the absolute full knowledge of the person his controlling.
Obito's fast enough to react to that. He's Reacted to Characters just as if not faster than Nagato.
Both are close in speed, it's just that Gravity manip is a bane for physicals as Nagato can take control of his body.
A Simple Genjutsu would deal with this Rather easily , as he'd be able to completely control Nagato or even cast an illusion and trick him. And Again he's fast enough to react to Nagato
Rinnegan >>> A Genjutsu that literally covers an entire planet.
Itachi also didn't try to use Genjutsu on Nagato.
As the series progresses, Itachi is displayed as one of the most powerful Genjutsu users, as displayed by many feats such as -
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Scan 1-2: Reconstruct details in a memory perfectly.
Scan 3-5: Torturing people in an illusion realm where 3 days there only last a few seconds in real time.
Scan 6: Putting people in illusions with just his finger.
So the question arises, a much more Genjutsu dependant fighter than Obito in Itachi, never bothered using Genjutsu on Nagato, why? oh, wait, because it cannot work on him.
This just isn't true for several Reasons
1) I literally Showed A Scan of Obito using Genjutsu for combat. Here Obito uses Genjutsu to control the Nine-Tails (A Being Far more powerful than Nagato) What does he do with the controlled Nine-Tails? he proceeds to Atatck the Leaf Village
Nine-Tails is not an intelligent Rinnegan wielder like Nagato
2) Orange mask Obito Not using Genjustu on Screen is Completely incorrect , Here we see him Put konan under a Genjutsu
He used it on a near-dead Konan after the fight ended, amazing, I am so impressed. /s
Overall You've failed to provide any legitimate counters to Obito's Genjutsu , You argument consists off Obito not using it for combat
He uses it every time after the fight or before it.
Minato fight didn't do it
Konan fight didn't do it
vs Shinobi alliance didn't use it even once
vs Shinobi alliance as Juubito, still nope
No real instance of him doing it mid-battle.
and this version of Obito Not Using it on screen. But I've proven both claims aren't not true.
He still doesn't have the feats to say he can break through Madara's Rinnegan (which Madara gave to Nagato as a child), which are the same as Sasuke Rinnegan, which no-sold the most powerful Genjutsu in Naruto history, let alone Obito's basic Mangekyou Sharingan Genjutsu .
Considering that Single move makes him the perfect counter for Nagato It isn't really much of a weakness.
It really isn't, Obito needs to become tangible for his attacks, otherwise, there is no effect.
Nagato can just repeat what Minato did, take him the moment he becomes intangible
Obito is more than fast enough to react to Nagato and he could simply use Izanagi to survive any fatal attack Nagato decides to use
Orange Masked Obito has one Sharingan, the other he keeps exclusively for Izanagi was taken from Danzou IIRC and The CAV rules don't give him Shisui's Mangekyou.
Genjutsu is something that both this version of Obito and Several other versions of Obito Prior to this have used
Never in combat and Rinnegan no-sells anyway.
Most of Which will be ineffective
Seeing the recent arguments..... not really.
Conclusion: Why Nagato Still Wins
It doesn't matter if Obito uses Genjutsu since Nagato's Rinnegan negs it and I've already proven he doesn't use it mid-battle, Obito needs to be tangible to tag Nagato which gives Nagato many chances to hit him, Nagato doesn't need to touch his opponent to absorb his chakra just being close enough would allow him to absorb,
In the end, Nagato has more win conditions than Obito will ever have.
With restricted movement caused via Nagato's Gravity Manip, or direct incapacitation, what is there implying Obito would be able to do anything? it's not about speed, you can't dodge Gravity manip, you need to resist it, and as far as I remember this incarnation of Obito has zero feats saying he can resist Nagato's Gravitational Pull.
He doesn't need to resist it , he could warp out of the way he's pushed or pulled , using Kamui's teleportation.
The Rinnegan Is capable of negging The Infinite Tsukuyomi which is in every sense of the word, superior to Obito's Genjutsu or any other Genjutsu in the series for that matter, Obito's Genjutsu cannot break through the Eyes of the Sage of the Six Paths.
I was expecting this. This was due to the fact that the Infinite tsukuyomi was specifically a Rinnegan Based Genjustu:
In the Scan Above Sasuke confirms that a Rinnegan genjutsu can be canceled out by another Rinnegan. Which does make sense , however this by no means equates to it being able to cancel out a sharringan Genjutsu as the Rinnegan and Sharringan are 2 completely different Dojutsu's. To support the Rinnegan only being able to cancel Rinnegan Genjutsu here we Jiraya use Genjutsu on Pain , despite the latter possessing a Rinnegan
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Despite Pain possessing A Rinnegan he is unable to cancel out Jiarya's Genjutsu which further proves my point that the Rinnegan only grants Resistance to Rinnegan Based Genjutsu and not all forms of Genjutsu. So the example you've used doesn't prove that the Rinnegan can block out Sharringan based Genjutsu all it shows is a Rinnegan blocking out a Rinnegan Based Genjutsu.
Obito is no Sasuke or Madara and is completely and utterly reliant on his Dojutsu, Without Kamui, he would be hopeless, as we can see in this scan when Madara used Izanagi, he lost his one eye before he even came to life.
Obito would too and Without Kamui, he is completely hopeless against even Pain, let alone the far superior Nagato.
First off. Obito would only loose one sharringan and secondly he wouldn't loose his ability to utilize kamui as showcased here:
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Just after his fight With Konan Obito uses Kamui. Using Izanagi forces Obito to loose his left eye not his right eye(his right eye being the eye he uses for Kamui) So Obito would still be able to make use of Kamui.
As you mentioned yourself, she thinks she has won,
Yes and Why Wouldn't Nagato? If Nagato were to use a fatal attack on Obito Just like Konan he'd think he is dead.
Anyways, using Izanagi, in this case, is pointless,
Izanagi is far from "pointless" It grants Obito a second chance of victory and advantage that Nagato doesn't have.
because Nagato is FAR more durable than Konan who got pierced via a rod lol.
The Only reason Obito did that to Konan was because he wanted infromation from her so he decided to imaple her with a non fatal attack. In this case Obito wouldn't need any info so once he has caught Nagato off guard via his use of Izanagi , he'd either Suck him up into the Kamui dimension or Put him in Genjustsu (Just like he did to Konan) both of which is a viable win condition , So Nagato being more durable isn't really relevant.
They are large, powerful, and can cause large AOE attacks which could destroy the platform Obito is standing on,
Obito can phase through all their attacks and just warp to a different Platform.
Obito is still bound by gravitational force
and this brings us to our next point, even a semi-intangible Obito is bound by the gravitational force, when he should not be, but he still is.
Gravity is a force of pulling something, and intangible Obito cannot resist it.
Why would he resist Nagato's Gravitational Pull too? He has never been shown to resist a Gravitational pull.
and about " turning intangible again"
I'm beggining to think you didn't even read my first Post? Yes Obito is still Bound by a Gravitational force however Gravity Being manipulated in 1 dimension wouldnt equate to it being affected in another. Allow me to remind you how Kamui Works
Kamui isn't mere Intangibility Obito is literally teleporting parts (or if he wants to his entire body) into a another dimension , Nagato's Gravity manipulation would have no affect on him as his body would be in a completely different dimesnion.
Facial expressions are a great pathway to the Intent of the author, Looking at Konan and Obito in these two scans, it's pretty clear that Obito would be D-E-A-D when the technique fulfills, so its not as simple as "turn intangible again "
Now we come to our next question, why would the Kamui have a time limit if it's as flawless as you imply it to be?
The Reason obito didn't reset the timer during the Konan fight was due to the fact that she had covered their entire enviroment with Paper bombs and spammed those Paper bombs for over 5 minutes
1) Nagato only has two attacks on this scale and magnitude both of which don't last for over 5 minutes
2) Konan did this specifically due to the fact that she had prep and prior knowledge of Obito's ability , this is an advantage that nagato doesn't have in this fight.
So Obito would be able to reset the Kamui timer in this fight as he wouldn't have to worry about Any AOE Attacks that last for over 5 minutes.
Kakashi uses immense amounts of chakra for his Kamui, the same makes sense for Obito.
Unlike Kakashi Obito possesses what's known as Hashirama cells , this allows him to pretty much Spam his kamui without any drawbacks.
So the only real logical reasoning here is that Obito, same as Kakashi, runs completely out of chakra due to intangibility,
This is a baseless assumption Throughout the entire Story of Naruto Obito has been able to spam his Kamui and has never once been fatigued via his usage of chakra , the fact that you had to compare him to another character he's far more powerful than and couldn't even provide an example of Obito running out of chakra is very telling.
Examples of Chakra Absorption in Naruto
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Scan 1: Madara directly touching Hashirama's neck
Scan 2: Madara absorbing a Rasenshuriken point-blank
Scan 3: Momoshiki absorbing Naruto's chakra point-blank
1) Physical Contact
2) Physical Contact We Literally see the smoke coming off Madara's hand that clearly shows he touched it. (Madara is an edo so touching the Rasenshuriken wouldn't be fatal)
3) Momoshiki has a different Dojutsu from Nagato that grants him a different set of abilities so this example equates to nothing.
All these scans prove is that you need to be close to what you are absorbing, physical touch isn't mentioned anywhere.
No they prove my Point even further 2 of the examples your provided utilize physical contact the 3rd one isn't even applicable to Nagato. Physical Touch isn't Mentioned it's outright shown.
The person is incapacitated the moment the hand is put on their head, again, you are baselessly claiming it happened because he started reading his mind, but it happens before he reads the mind.
Pain Putting his hand on his head was for the Purpose off reading his mind. In this fight he'd have no reason to do that and he'd be trying to Kill Obito , Not Get info from him. That "comotose" state only applies to when your mind is being read , When Nagato is actually trying to kill his oppoenents The Characters can still Move/Fight back as showcased with Naruto.
Shizune is incapacitated before the mind is read,
No her being incapacitated was soley due to the fact that her mind is being read. The Moment he places his hands on her head he is actively reading her mind. Which is why he later goes on to say Mount Myoboku , implying that prior to saying that he was reading through her mind.
These two uses are far from the same.
Yes One is my mind reading the other is soul snatching (with the intent to kill)
We are not assuming he has access to his entire Sharingan storage, he might as well go blind upon Using Izanagi, then he dies, simple as that.
1) He'd only loose one eye
2) That eye isn't even the one he uses for Kamui so he'd still be able to use that ability
3) He wouldn't go blind as he'd still have another eye
4) He could always use Kamui to warp to his sharringan storage and warp back to the battlefield.
He only caught Konan off guard with it,
Yes and he would also Catch Nagato off guard
even then it was after she thought she won.
She had prep and prior knowledge. She fought she won and was incorrect as Obito survived her attack due to the usage of Izanagi.
The only thing this scan is saying is that the power is doubled.
If the speed was increased that would also be mentioned but it isn't so the implication the lariat is substantially faster than Raikage rushing at full speed is unsubstantiated.
You made the claim that his specific pucnh was faster than the Lariat I've aksed you to prove. You tried to do so by using a statment that doesn't prove anything.
KCM Naruto > Jonin Minato Speed scaling
This really isn't relavant as
1) Obito fought Hoakge Minato
2) Jonin minato is faster than a Young Ay , there's nothing to suggest that he's faster than him as Raikage.
KCM Naruto is superior to Jounin Minato who is superior to Ay in speed,
Again Jonin Minato is faster than a Young Ay
any arguments for Ay's Growth are simply not substantiated seeing how his younger self have no concrete anti-feat or feat which establishes him as more powerful or weaker,
Aside from the Fact that As Raikage he has a Sub relativitic lariat an ability he hasn't displayed when he was Young. There are a multitude of feats that AY has as Raikage and not as a youngling. There's just a multitude of feats that Raikage Ay has that he doesn't have as a youngling as thus it stands to reason that Raikage AY is faster and more powerful than his younger self.
Both are close in speed, it's just that Gravity manip is a bane for physicals as Nagato can take control of his body.
I've already explained why gravity manipulation a threat to Obito.
Rinnegan >>> A Genjutsu that literally covers an entire planet.
Rinegan can only cancel out Rinnegan genjutsu.
Itachi also didn't try to use Genjutsu on Nagato.
There are quite a few reasons for this
1) That wouldn't have been an affective waaaay to win , Nagato was an edo tensei and Itachi had no waay of permanently putting him down so he decided to seal him. (Nagato isn't an Edo in this fight)
2) For the Majority of the Fight Itachi was on the same team as Nagato the only time they even "Fight" is when Itachi saves Bee and naruto from nagato and when he seals him with the rotsuka blade so there really wasn't an oppurtunity to use genjutsu on him.
So the question arises, a much more Genjutsu dependant fighter than Obito in Itachi, never bothered using Genjutsu on Nagato, why?
I've explained why above
oh, wait, because it cannot work on him.
You haven't proven that.
Nine-Tails is not an intelligent Rinnegan wielder like Nagato
He doesn't need to be as the only blocks Rinnegan Genjutsu not other forms of Genjutsu such as Sharringan Genjutsu
He used it on a near-dead Konan after the fight ended, amazing, I am so impressed. /s
Whether your "amazed" or not doesn't matter , you made a false claim and I've proven that.
Minato fight didn't do it
Konan fight didn't do it
vs Shinobi alliance didn't use it even once
vs Shinobi alliance as Juubito, still nope
1) He was already using genjutsu to Control the Nine tails hence why he didn't use it on Minato
2) I've already shown him literally puting Konan under Genjutsu
3) It wouldn't be affective as genjutsu only works on one person at a time . But he does use it against indivisual members of the Shinobi alliance:
Gallery
4) Again It wouldn't be affective as genjutsu only works on one person at a time , and more Importantly Juubito soley relied on his six paths power and didn't even make use of Kamui , this is all even taking into account that this version of Obito isn't even being used in this fight so that's not really relevant.
He still doesn't have the feats to say he can break through Madara's Rinnegan (which Madara gave to Nagato as a child), which are the same as Sasuke Rinnegan, which no-sold the most powerful Genjutsu in Naruto history, let alone Obito's basic Mangekyou Sharingan Genjutsu .
Yet the Great Rinnegan couldn't block regular Sound Genjutsu. As I've already stated the Rinnegan can only block out RINNEGAN Genjutsu the level of power the Genjutsu is doesn't matter what matters if the fact that it's a Rinnegan Genjutsu and as stated by Sasuke , Rinnegan Can Cancel out Rinnegan Genjustu it can't however block out other forms of Genjutsu as shown with the sound Genjutsu woriking on it. So it won't be able to block out Sharringan Genjutsu.
Nagato can just repeat what Minato did, take him the moment he becomes intangible
Minato had set up a teleportation marker prior to his fight with Obito (An Ability Nagato Doesn't have) , Obito's more than fast enough to just react to Nagato.
Orange Masked Obito has one Sharingan, the other he keeps exclusively for Izanagi was taken from Danzou IIRC and The CAV rules don't give him Shisui's Mangekyou.
Incorrect Orange Mask Obito has two sharringan. One is for Kamui the other is from izanagi , He doesn't need Shisui's Mangekyou and I never claimed he'd use it.
Never in combat and Rinnegan no-sells anyway.
I've already shown it in combat. Rinnegan doesn't no sell Sharringan Genjutsu...
Seeing the recent arguments..... not really.
Seeing you make faulty arguments and claim things taht aren't true I beg to differ.
It doesn't matter if Obito uses Genjutsu since Nagato's Rinnegan negs it
Rinnegan has never shown the ability to "neg" Sharringan Genjutsu
I've already proven he doesn't use it mid-battle
You've failed to prove that.
Obito needs to be tangible to tag Nagato which gives Nagato many chances to hit him,
In Which Obito is fast enough to react to anything nagato does and outright Survive it with Izanagi.
Nagato doesn't need to touch his opponent to absorb his chakra
Yes he does.
In the end, Nagato has more win conditions
Most of which are inaffective on the other hand Obito's 2 Win conditions are viable , valid and affective
Final Conclusions
Obito still holds the victory here. He's fast enough to compete with Nagato , Most if not all of Nagato's attacks are rendered useless due to Obito's Kamui. Izanagi is something that Grants Obito esentially a second try , which is something Nagato doesn't have. Genjutsu could be used to trick or completely control Nagato and it's something that Nagato has no real means of countering.
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