Rules:
Victory by death or KO.
Both are in-character. The fight is a random encounter.
Both are unarmed. Jessica is wearing street clothes. Batman is wearing his batsuit with his gauntlets.
Starting distance is 15 ft.
Location:
The streets are unpopulated.
Finally time to get this rolling.
Following the tragic loss of her family to a car accident, Jessica Jones was adopted as a PR stunt by the abusive celebrity mom Dorothy Walker. Soon after, she discovered that she had somehow developed superhuman strength, and used it to threaten her adoptive mother in order to protect her sister Trish.
Despite having the makings and the morals of a superhero, Jessica's... antisocial tendencies drew her away from the spotlight, and she tried her best to live a normal life, eventually becoming a private investigator with unusually violent methods.
This was all well and good until Jessica came under the control of Kilgrave, who in his infinite wisdom decided to take her for himself. After a long period of manipulation, rape and general psychological abuse, Jessica finally escaped his control, setting in motion events that would implicate a whole host of her friends and allies and endanger innocent people all over New York City. After a long struggle, though, she managed to put an end to him once and for all.
All in all, Jessica has drawn the short straw quite a few times in her life, but it has shaped her into a no-nonsense badass. It is not often that she fights someone that poses a threat, but there is not much that a bulletproof vest and some kung-fu will do to stop her in a straight-up one-on-one.
I've noticed that a lot of people tend to lowball or just plain forget about exactly how good Jessica's physicals are. It's not surprising that people forget her capabilities, since JJ was not a very action-focused show and did not put a lot of emphasis on her power. Because of that, I think the most important thing to discuss here is exactly what Jessica is capable of. Jessica is literally a superhuman, with superhuman strength, durability and arguably even speed, to an extent at least. Batman may be an experienced crime fighter but he simply has never tangled with someone as powerful as Jessica before. Without further ado...
Jessica effortlessly breaks steel chains and handcuffs.
Jessica can easily toss grown adults across rooms.
She also KO's them with single blows, and ragdolls them with casual kicks.
A single serious punch from Jessica is enough to straight-up kill someone, and ragdoll them (couldn't make this one into a gif for some reason).
Jessica's punches even damage Luke Cage. He is clearly shown to recoil and show pain from Jessica's blows. This is one of her most impressive feats.
Luke Cage, in case you didn't know, is a complete brick whose primary superpower is durability. He no-sells attacks from grown men... and even machine gun fire is not enough to get him to so much as flinch.
And yet he is visibly hurt by Jessica's punches.
On the same note, Jessica was even able to physically match one of Luke's blows, and Luke's super strength is even above her own to an extent.
Luke can literally swat men around with no effort at all. A punch like the one that Jessica caught is enough to put a fist-sized dent in the front of a bus.
The majority of these scans should put Jessica's striking power well above Bane's pillar-cracking punches, which will no doubt be used to defend Batman's durability here. In a physical fight Batman already demonstrated himself not to be a match for that kind of power.
To add to Jessica being stronger than Bane, I will note that it obviously takes Bane a greater amount of difficulty to toss people a shorter distance.
The strength comparison is enough to place Batman at a serious physical disadvantage here, but that's not even addressing Jessica's equally impressive durability. She has fewer feats for this than she does strength, but it's enough to prove my point.
First and foremost, Jessica can survive getting tossed through walls, grappled and smacked around by Luke Cage, whose strength we have already established as completely superhuman.
Jessica can fall over a story with no injury.
Jessica gets shot in the arm...
and less than a minute later is completely fine and smashing up an apartment like nothing.
One more on that subject.
Specific clips of this show have been surprisingly difficult for me to find, and unfortunately for the life of me I cannot find the clip I am looking for here, but I will make a point about it anyway.
Jessica's most impressive feat of durability is surviving a collision with a truck. I'll quote the MCU wiki here.
Exhaustion overtakes Jones, but, instead of resting, when she sees a man in a purple suit, she chases him and gets hit by a truck. Jones recovers quickly, to the onlookers' amazement, and leaves the scene.
The truck is slow-moving, admittedly, but the blow clearly should be fatal. Instead, she is merely KO'd for a few seconds and then walk away without medical attention, having broken only a few ribs (which according to her should heal quickly).
It is Jessica's vastly superior strength and durability that will carry her through this fight. Batman simply does not have the kind of damage output necessary.
It is true that Jessica has no formal combat training, at all.
But that doesn't mean she doesn't know how to fight. Jessica is clearly implied to have experience street fighting, and her line of work often involves physically bullying and attacking people. Jessica has shown in multiple fights that she has enough reaction speed to block punches and react to attacks.
Her fight against Luke Cage proved her to be a totally competent street fighter, blocking and dodging a flurry of attacks from Cage.
Jessica also has the ability to launch herself in the air at great height and speeds, which gives her a form of superhuman speed, able to clear several stories in a second with a leap.
She demonstrated the ability to use this ability in combat when she fought Luke Cage.
This leap even gave her enough speed to avoid a speeding train (which should also be a strong reaction feat).
This ability should not only prove her speed enough to tangle with Batman, but is also a useful tool for clearing distance if she somehow needed to. (It would be unlikely that this would be necessary, though, considering her strong superiority in melee.)
Overall, while Batman is obviously more skilled than Jessica, she is by no means incompetent enough to get manhandled by someone with such weaker physicals than her.
Jessica is just plain too much for Batman.
Yeah, it's dark. Yeah, Batman has stealth. Yeah, Batman is skilled, and fast.
But it doesn't matter. His gear in this scenario is extremely barebones. He simply does not have the damage output to put Jessica down. Even if he gets the first strike, he has to place himself in melee range to carry on a fight.
Once he does, Jessica will beat the living crap out of him.
@nfactor1995: That's all for my opener! Bout time we got this started eh?
TFV
@amendment50: Heres the gif for your one feat:
P.S: I don't know what programs you guys use but if you change the URL of Youtube.com/videourl to gifs.com/videourl, it'll take you to a gif making website, It isn't the greatest one but its the fastest one (rendering wise) I could find.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx637YYWjwc ---> https://www.gifs.com/watch?v=Vx637YYWjwc
@amendment50: Here is my opening post
Extremely Brief Biography:
Bruce Wayne was the main protagonist of The Dark Knight Trilogy, described as a billionaire philanthropist who witnessed his parent's murder at age 8, and later traveled the world for seven years to seek the means to fight injustice, fear and chaos before returning to Gotham City to become Batman, a bat-masked vigilante hailed as the city's "Dark Knight", who dedicated himself to protecting it from its criminal underworld at night as a means to uphold justice, hope and order.
Quick Overview:
There are some key advantages that Batman possesses over Jessica Jones that I believe will enable him to win this encounter. Jessica indisputably has the strength, striking power, and durability edge over Batman. However, these two advantages will be overcome through the following advantages in favor of Batman:
Batman straight up massively out-classes Jessica in terms of overall combat and movement speed. While I wouldn't call Jessica a brick per se (such as Luke Cage or Colossus), she really isn't a fast fighter at all, and relies more on her pure physical strength and street skills in order to take down her opponents.
Batman is multiple tiers higher. This is the shining example of his combat speed: he drops down out of nowhere, surrounded by 12 armed thugs, takes them all down in 21 seconds, and is shown to essentially be a blur in their perceptions (Carmine Falcone as an on-looker included).
Quite frankly, this type of combat speed blows Jessica's out of the water, and she will be extremely hard pressed to land even a single hit on Batman. Batman, however, should have no difficulty whatsoever landing plenty of shots on Jessica.
Now unfortunately, this is really the only time Batman is shown visually to be moving at this speed. But there is a simple explanation for that: Nolan took this scene to show us exactly how fast Batman is intended to be moving when he fights. For the rest of the fights, the focus is more on the choreography and showing exactly what moves Batman is using when he takes people down.
Similarly to speed, Batman's fighting skills and abilities are leagues above Jessica's. While Jessica clearly has an aptitude for street fighting, this is nothing when compared to a fully and extensively trained martial artist, trained by the most dangerous organization on the planet (trained by Ra's Al Ghul himself, no less).
Notable skill feats (video links provided, though I'm assuming you've seen all the movies)
Essentially, the only one of these fights that Jessica could even hope to replicate would be the first fight in the prison (aka the fodder fight). These statements and videos are really all the proof necessary that Batman clearly and significantly outclasses Jessica in fighting skill, and quite frankly, she can't keep up.
Jessica is more durable than Batman, significantly if Batman is without his suit, but far less so when he has it on (as he does in this fight).
Batman with his armor was able to survive a fall from hundreds of feet high, while saving Rachel in the process:
Now one could argue that his cape was slowing them down, but even if that were the case, it wasn't by much judging by how fast they looked to be falling (still a significantly superhuman durability feat). This fall is honestly much more damaging than anything Jessica could dish out, yet Batman took it just fine.
And secondly, Batman was able to take literally dozens of punches from Bane, some of which were at a concrete busting level. Now sure, Jessica hits harder than Bane. But Bane is also an extremely skilled and fast fighter himself, being trained by the League of Shadows after being previously hardened by a life in prison. Bane was able to land so many hits because his own skill and speed matched or surpassed Batman's, but Jessica has neither of those attributes - not even close.
So Batman tanked these punches:
And afterwards, Batman actually seemed to be totally fine and proceeded to defeat Bane. Now note, this is the END of their fight...so Batman had already tanked numerous hits from Bane already before this. Yet Batman was relatively un-phased and won the fight.
Now in terms of Batman's gauntlets, these essentially an added weapon for him in a CQC fight. While they are extremely underused in Batman's H2H fights, in theory they provide Batman with a piercing weapon he can use when throwing his hits. Also, they were shown to be the one thing that could break Bane's mask (Batman's punches had no effect).
Conclusion:
Batman quite simply is far too skilled and fast as a martial artist for him to lose this fight to Jessica. His combination of speed and skill when he fights will enable him to avoid virtually all of Jessica's hits and land PLENTY of his own. Also, Batman has the durability to tank numerous punches by Jessica. It took Bane dozens of hits to put Batman down in their first fight, and that was a broken down fresh out of retirement Batman. Then later, Batman took yet again hit after hit from Bane before finally breaking Bane's mask and winning the fight. He could take at the absolute worst a few of Jessica's punches before being slowed down, and that is being VERY generous to say that Jessica will be landing any kind of meaningful hits on Batman, given his speed and skill.
So this is how the fight will go down: given that it's a H2H fight, the two will engage each other in CQC. Batman will essentially dodge and block each of her hits while countering with multiple hits of his own, and this will continue until Jessica finally drops.
I could see Jessica landing a hit or two in the midst of this, and perhaps Batman will be driven back a second or perhaps even knocked down should Jessica land a solid shot, but this shouldn't slow Batman down much at all. One only has to look at how Simpson took Jessica's hit, which launched him across the room into a bookshelf. This is about as hard as Jessica can hit people, yet it only dropped Simpson, just a cop, for like 5 seconds. Batman's going to be fine.
Another underrated aspect of Nolan's Batman is his will to continue fighting. Batman literally had to have his back broken in order to stop fighting against Bane. Therefore, superficial hits and damage from Jessica will do little to slow Batman down, she will actually have to fully and completely incapacitate Batman in order to win. And given Batman's speed, skill, and durability, I just can't see that happening.
You're up and sorry for the wait.
There are some key advantages that Batman possesses over Jessica Jones that I believe will enable him to win this encounter. Jessica indisputably has the strength, striking power, and durability edge over Batman. However, these two advantages will be overcome through the following advantages in favor of Batman:
Likewise, I will concede all of these points to Batman. Jessica holds the stats advantage while Batman holds the gear and skill advantage. The problems here are:
A. Batman's armor only compensates for a lack of durability, without compensating for strength, and still does not give him durability on par with Jessica's.
and B. Batman simply cannot win this fight on his skills alone.
Both of these I will get into here.
So, the speed argument first. I mentioned in my opener that Jessica will beat the crap out of Batman when the fight comes to melee range; now it's time for me to put my money where my mouth is.
And so I shall. Let's get down to business.
Batman straight up massively out-classes Jessica in terms of overall combat and movement speed. While I wouldn't call Jessica a brick per se (such as Luke Cage or Colossus), she really isn't a fast fighter at all, and relies more on her pure physical strength and street skills in order to take down her opponents.
Batman is multiple tiers higher. This is the shining example of his combat speed: he drops down out of nowhere, surrounded by 12 armed thugs, takes them all down in 21 seconds, and is shown to essentially be a blur in their perceptions (Carmine Falcone as an on-looker included).
The important thing to note about the shown gifs is that Batman is leaping out of stealth in that scenario, using the element of surprise to get the drop on a good portion of these mooks. This fight is starting at a distance of 15 feet, meaning that they are both clearly visible to each other from the get-go. When Batman fights head-on he gets tagged more often. Keep reading and I'll get into that more.
Quite frankly, this type of combat speed blows Jessica's out of the water, and she will be extremely hard pressed to land even a single hit on Batman. Batman, however, should have no difficulty whatsoever landing plenty of shots on Jessica.
Now unfortunately, this is really the only time Batman is shown visually to be moving at this speed. But there is a simple explanation for that: Nolan took this scene to show us exactly how fast Batman is intended to be moving when he fights. For the rest of the fights, the focus is more on the choreography and showing exactly what moves Batman is using when he takes people down.
Let's make something absolutely clear. We're talking about a street-level difference in speed here. The speed difference between a skilled fighter and an unskilled one. Not Batman moving at speeds so fast that he cannot be touched. To state that Jessica will be hard-pressed to land any blows on Bats is simply a massive overstatement of his speed as a whole. That's the primary point for me to make, and I can easily back it up. All you have to do to see this is focus on how Batman actually fights his opponents.
Just watch. Is Batman untaggable in a fight? Clearly not. Granted, Batman is fighting gangs of people here, but my point isn't about Batman being overwhelmed, it's about pointing to Batman's entire fighting style.
The thing is, Batman does not fight- does not even attempt to fight- by being too evasive for his opponents to hit. Instead (like an actual fighter, to Nolan's credit), he fights by waiting for opponents to attack, and then taking advantage of his skill (and strength) advantage to defeat them. He first blocks attacks, or attempts to grapple, then follows up, and that's the primary reason Jessica is at a melee advantage.
If you really need proof that Batman still fights like this even in a 1-on-1, all you need to do is watch Batman's fights with Bane.
Bane clearly is not moving at blinding speeds here, either. He's a slow brick, just like Jessica is.
Batman has never fought an opponent as strong as Jessica; not even close.
Bane was strong enough to crack the outside of a pillar, and that alone was enough for him to overpower Batman's grabs at melee range. Jessica's strength feats that I showed in my opener blow Bane's out of the water, ragdolling people and breaking through handcuffs like nothing, as well as hurting Luke Cage.
Ultimately, this means that when Batman tries to fight as he normally does, he'll find himself outclassed. If he tries to block one of Jessica's punches, he'll be knocked backwards. If he tries to grapple her, she'll easily break his grip. There just won't be anywhere for him to go from here. He cannot avoid every one of Jessica's blows; Batman's fighting style is clearly established differently than that.
Similarly to speed, Batman's fighting skills and abilities are leagues above Jessica's. While Jessica clearly has an aptitude for street fighting, this is nothing when compared to a fully and extensively trained martial artist, trained by the most dangerous organization on the planet (trained by Ra's Al Ghul himself, no less).
Notable skill feats (video links provided, though I'm assuming you've seen all the movies)
Essentially, the only one of these fights that Jessica could even hope to replicate would be the first fight in the prison (aka the fodder fight). These statements and videos are really all the proof necessary that Batman clearly and significantly outclasses Jessica in fighting skill, and quite frankly, she can't keep up.
the only one of these fights that Jessica could even hope to replicate would be the first fight in the prison
That's quite a claim to make without evidence, one I object to strongly. Jessica has fewer showings in general due to her series' lack of fight scenes, but that doesn't mean we can simply write off her ability to perform in a fight. Batman relies on his physicals in fights as well, and Jessica's stats would easily make up for skill in the majority of these cases.
Let's get into a little more detail about these fights, and how Jessica might theoretically perform.
Takes down 5-6 fellow inmates while imprisoned, pre-League of Shadows training
Wrangling prisoners in a mudpit, almost one at a time. Batman was dedicating time to each opponent, constantly having to toss people back down onto the ground to avoid getting overwhelmed. In the same scenario, Jessica could easily KO these guys with one blow each. She should have an easier time with them, if anything.
Out-smarts Ra's Al Ghul during the final League of Shadows training test, all while drugged and hallucinating his worst fear
This one would be hard for Jessica to replicate... unfortunately, it's also not really a showing of fighting skill. Like, at all.
Beats the fake Ra's Al Ghul
This was a good showing of sword skill for Bruce, but over the course of this fight he also took damage from multiple kicks and other blows that staggered him and made it difficult for him to keep his stance. Jessica would not have this problem in this scenario.
Takes down 4 League of Shadows ninjas, fighting them simultaneously
Considering Batman's armor is more resistant to damage from blades than skin is, there is no reason Jessica could not clear this fight if she were given the same advantage. Batman had to rely on physical strength (even getting tagged multiple times) in order to defeat these opponents.
Fights evenly with Ra's Al Ghul, uses Ra's's own trick against him (being mindful of one's surroundings) to stop his plan and ultimately defeat him
There is no reason Jessica would even have trouble with this fight, which is pure H2H. Ra's was easily doing damage to Batman with his blows and tanking Batman's blows, likewise. Jessica would not have to resort to any other tactics here because she could simply beat Ra's in H2H where Batman could not.
And while being able to use your surroundings is a nice strategy, there is nothing nearly so easily exploitable in the arena for this fight.
Takes down a SWAT team in TDK
This fight isn't really much of a showing of H2H skill at all. Batman was heavily reliant on his gear here. He did overpower guys in SWAT gear once approaching from stealth, but there's no reason Jessica couldn't easily replicate that damage output.
Takes down roughly a dozen of Bane's mercenaries (stated to be above your standard fodder), with Catwoman's minor assistance
With Catwoman's heavy assistance. As in, there was even more emphasis placed on Catwoman's fighting than Batman's. The mooks here were totally split up and basically approached one-on-one. Jessica could replicate this no question. It's just KOing four or five mooks in a row.
Defeats Bane in their 2nd fight
A. Bane still whooped Batman for the majority of this fight.
and
B. Why would Jessica have trouble with this, again? It's a one-on-one fight, and Jessica is much stronger than Bane. Her blows would send him reeling.
---
I'm not denying that Jessica is much less skilled than Batman, but all in all you are overplaying how much of an advantage that really gives him. His feats are impressive, mostly because of his ability to keep track of multiple opponents at once, but Jessica's stats compensate for it, much more than you acknowledge. Above, I already demonstrated that Jessica will not be unable to tag him, and speed and skill go basically hand in hand here. Batman doesn't have to strength to physically grapple her nor withstand her attacks.
Jessica is more durable than Batman, significantly if Batman is without his suit, but far less so when he has it on (as he does in this fight).
Batman with his armor was able to survive a fall from hundreds of feet high, while saving Rachel in the process:
Now one could argue that his cape was slowing them down, but even if that were the case, it wasn't by much judging by how fast they looked to be falling (still a significantly superhuman durability feat). This fall is honestly much more damaging than anything Jessica could dish out, yet Batman took it just fine.
This is kind of a ridiculous high showing for Batman, and honestly doesn't make sense in the context of the trilogy. This is not at all consistent with Batman's level of resistance to blunt force damage while in the suit.
In the past Batman has been shown to...
reel back from ordinary people's blows,
was physically overpowered by two dogs,
took significant damage from the non-powered humans Ra's
and Joker,
got knocked to his feet by a regular revolver,
and KO'd by a relatively small motorcycle crash.
If Batman had durability at all consistent with tanking 4-story falls, his durability would be closer to Luke Cage's than Batman's and none of the fights in this trilogy would be able to give him trouble. For some reason he is portrayed as being able to take falls unusually well, but this has never really helped him in fights against people much weaker than Jessica in the past.
And secondly, Batman was able to take literally dozens of punches from Bane, some of which were at a concrete busting level. Now sure, Jessica hits harder than Bane. But Bane is also an extremely skilled and fast fighter himself, being trained by the League of Shadows after being previously hardened by a life in prison. Bane was able to land so many hits because his own skill and speed matched or surpassed Batman's, but Jessica has neither of those attributes - not even close.
You say that, but what about these fights actually supports your argument? Bane doesn't move that quickly, he just throws out a lot of punches. Batman doesn't attempt to dodge them all. Several times (as I showed above) he attempts to block and grapple with Bane's attacks. Why wouldn't he do that with Jessica?
The real reason Batman got hit so much during that fight is because he is not equipped to handle someone who can physically overpower him like Bane could. He relies on being able to tank blows as part of his fighting style.
So Batman tanked these punches:
And afterwards, Batman actually seemed to be totally fine and proceeded to defeat Bane. Now note, this is the END of their fight...so Batman had already tanked numerous hits from Bane already before this. Yet Batman was relatively un-phased and won the fight.
Not all of Bane's strikes were as brutal as that notorious flurry. The most important thing to note about this fight (and the reason the outcome was different from their first unholy stomp fight) is that Batman managed to damage Bane's mask using his gauntlet, something you even reference yourself a bit later on. This not only made it possible for Batman to take him down, it also clearly made Bane more desperate. Just watch the scene and it is clear that Bane starts going harder once the mask is damaged.
After all, we've seen before that when Bane went all out with his blows against Batman before, his helmet even cracked in half from the onslaught.
But even if all those blows were on "concrete-busting" level, Jessica's still on this level literally on a bad day. I'll put this in perspective a little. When Simpson fought Jessica, he tossed her across the room multiple times, smashed a bookcase and threw her through a wall and wasn't even able to knock her unconscious- and the whole time, she was injured and walking on multiple broken ribs. By Simpson'sown admission, Jessica was superior even to that and would have won if not for her injuries. And Bane cannot even match Simpson's strength let alone Jessica's.
Now in terms of Batman's gauntlets, these essentially an added weapon for him in a CQC fight. While they are extremely underused in Batman's H2H fights, in theory they provide Batman with a piercing weapon he can use when throwing his hits. Also, they were shown to be the one thing that could break Bane's mask (Batman's punches had no effect).
In theory, yes, but Batman practically never uses them for this purpose, only doing so against Bane because he was trying to exploit a specific weakness. Jessica does not have said weakness.
Conclusion:
Batman quite simply is far too skilled and fast as a martial artist for him to lose this fight to Jessica. His combination of speed and skill when he fights will enable him to avoid virtually all of Jessica's hits and land PLENTY of his own. Also, Batman has the durability to tank numerous punches by Jessica. It took Bane dozens of hits to put Batman down in their first fight, and that was a broken down fresh out of retirement Batman. Then later, Batman took yet again hit after hit from Bane before finally breaking Bane's mask and winning the fight. He could take at the absolute worst a few of Jessica's punches before being slowed down, and that is being VERY generous to say that Jessica will be landing any kind of meaningful hits on Batman, given his speed and skill.
Obviously I just dedicated a large part of my argument to refuting this idea. Jessica will be able to land blows on Batman; Batsy has never shown that level of evasion even if he has shown great fighting skill.
So this is how the fight will go down: given that it's a H2H fight, the two will engage each other in CQC. Batman will essentially dodge and block each of her hits while countering with multiple hits of his own, and this will continue until Jessica finally drops.
The problem being that Batman is not strong enough to block her attacks.
I could see Jessica landing a hit or two in the midst of this, and perhaps Batman will be driven back a second or perhaps even knocked down should Jessica land a solid shot, but this shouldn't slow Batman down much at all.
"A hit or two." That's silly, but consistent with what you've been saying of course. Still I reiterate that Jessica will be doing better than that. Batman will dodge some of her attacks but certainly not all. It is a stretch even to say the majority based on his showings.
One only has to look at how Simpson took Jessica's hit, which launched him across the room into a bookshelf. This is about as hard as Jessica can hit people, yet it only dropped Simpson, just a cop, for like 5 seconds. Batman's going to be fine.
Oh, come on, dude. Simpson was drugged up on super-soldier drugs during that fight that made him strong enough to throw Jessica through her wall, and Jessica was injured at the time.
I already showed what happens when Jessica hits people as hard as she can: they die.
They literally die, dude. Straight-up.
Jessica holds back against people that she's not trying to kill. In fact, she will probably even hold back against Batman unless she is forced to fear for her life.
In other words, if Batman pushes her too far, he's really just screwing himself over.
Another underrated aspect of Nolan's Batman is his will to continue fighting. Batman literally had to have his back broken in order to stop fighting against Bane. Therefore, superficial hits and damage from Jessica will do little to slow Batman down, she will actually have to fully and completely incapacitate Batman in order to win. And given Batman's speed, skill, and durability, I just can't see that happening.
Batman also got weaker and more inefficient the longer he went on against Bane, though, so the fight will just get easier and easier the more Batman gets hit. And considering that Jessica is stronger than Bane, it won't take nearly as long for her to daze him and wear him down (or break through his armor).
Ultimately, even her "superficial" hits will be doing damage to Batman. She doesn't have to land that many blows to take him down, and I've already demonstrated that Batman cannot dodge all of her attacks, not even close.
So I stand by my original argument. Batman is outclassed in H2H and will go down once Jessica starts wailing on him. He will be too busy reeling from attacks to keep a barrage going on her.
@nfactor1995: ...And that's all for my counters!
You're up and sorry for the wait.
...lol.
@amendment50: Ok here's my post. Do you want to do maybe one more final rebuttal/closing type post then open it up to votes?
Let's make something absolutely clear. We're talking about a street-level difference in speed here. The speed difference between a skilled fighter and an unskilled one. Not Batman moving at speeds so fast that he cannot be touched. To state that Jessica will be hard-pressed to land any blows on Bats is simply a massive overstatement of his speed as a whole
The thing is though, what exactly puts Jessica above just your standard thug? Sure she has shown herself to be a pretty adept street fighter. But take away her physical abilities (i.e. make her normal) and what is she? She wouldn't really be above your standard thug in much of anything, including skills and perception. So what exactly stops Batman from appearing as a blur or close to a blur in Jessica's perception? I don't recall Jessica showing any type of enhanced speed or enhanced perceptions, merely enhanced strength and durability.
If you really need proof that Batman still fights like this even in a 1-on-1, all you need to do is watch Batman's fights with Bane. Bane clearly is not moving at blinding speeds here, either. He's a slow brick, just like Jessica is.
You can't really use the choreography in the Nolanverse to judge a character's fighting abilities, given it is explicitly explained by Nolan himself and confirmed in the official novelizations that these characters are EXTREMELY fast combatants, not the slow awkward looking (at times) fighters we see in the movies. Batman's true combat speed really is only seen in his first fight in Batman Begins (the one vs the 12 thugs) and sort of in his fights with the League of Shadows ninjas and Ra's himself.
Now to address your actual point, Bane is not a slow brick. In fact, Alfred explicitly expressed his doubts to Batman that he (Batman) could even keep up with the speed, training, and ferocity of Bane in a fight. The official Dark Knight Rises novelization keeps in line with the quotes by Nolan and the showing in Batman Begins and describes Batman as a blur in the perception of Detective Blake (when Batman rescues him from Bane's mercenaries at the end).
Really everything except the actual choreography of the movie points to Bane being an extremely skilled and fast fighter, and this is the reason why he could land so many hits against Batman and why Batman had to fight him the way he did (straight up, blocking and countering techniques etc). With Jessica, Batman won't have to do that, in fact really there is nothing stopping him from approaching the fight the way he did at the docks in Batman Begins.
So it really isn't valid to say that Jessica could land a bunch of hits on Batman just because Bane could...Bane is FAR more skilled and FAR faster than Jessica has ever been shown to be.
took significant damage from the non-powered humans Ra's
That's honestly just showing how hard Ra's hits. People underrate Ra's's striking power, but based on their fight, it's actually pretty close to what Bane can dish out.
Not all of Bane's strikes were as brutal as that notorious flurry. The most important thing to note about this fight (and the reason the outcome was different from their first
unholy stompfight) is that Batman managed to damage Bane's mask using his gauntlet, something you even reference yourself a bit later on. This not only made it possible for Batman to take him down, it also clearly made Bane more desperate. Just watch the scene and it is clear that Bane starts going harder once the mask is damaged.
Sure. So maybe Bane's normal punches merely leave a smaller hole in the concrete or just crack it a bit. That's still impressive striking power and to tank as many hits as he did in those fights and (in the 2nd one) still be relatively unscathed is some very impressive durability. Sure, Jessica's hits will hurt more than Bane's. But Jessica also won't be landing nearly as many hits as Bane did, and they won't be in any kind of rapid succession. Heck, it might even be to Batman's advantage if Jessica sends him flying with one of her hits, because that then puts space between them to a. give Batman a couple seconds to re-compose himself and b. gives him space to utilize his combat speed advantage again.
Aside from that scene where Jessica kills Luke's wife (yeah it's impressive that she killed her, but cmon, she's just a standard middle-aged woman. How impressive is it really that she killed a random woman by hitting her in the chest?), this is probably the pinnacle of her striking power based on her showings (I don't recall anything better from her):
And this is just a random cop that Kilgrave found and ordered to attack Trish. Yet he is only down and dazed from this punch for around 10-15 seconds before getting back up completely un-injured. Batman is significantly more durable than this guy. It'll take quite a few punches on this level to put Batman down.
Oh, come on, dude. Simpson was drugged up on super-soldier drugs during that fight that made him strong enough to throw Jessica through her wall, and Jessica was injured at the time.
See the above GIF.
In other words, if Batman pushes her too far, he's really just screwing himself over.
And what exactly should Batman fear about Jessica's rage amp? It's not like she's going to suddenly become faster or more skilled when she's pissed and really, for the purposes of this fight, I would've already thought she would be fighting hard from the beginning.
In fact, why wouldn't Jessica being pissed off actually play to Batman's advantage? She would have less control over herself during the fight, she will be expending more energy with her attacks (that Batman can dodge) especially if she's trying to kill Batman with each punch (meaning she'll be winding up to hit hard/full power - which can easily be telegraphed by a highly trained fighter), and it will leave her more vulnerable to counter attacks given that she will be focused on attacking Batman rather than defending herself.
Really, my strategy for Batman winning this fight hasn't really changed much at all. I stand by the fact that Batman is far more skilled and far faster than Jessica, and this will allow him to evade most of her attacks. The hits she lands will by no means at all be on the level of the ones that knocked Simpson back into the bookshelf or killed Luke's wife. Batman will be able to tank her superficial hits, given that he tanked multiple barrages of hits from Bane, and will eventually wear and beat her down after a long and grueling fight.
Ok you're up man! Let me know if you want this next set of posts to be our final ones. I honestly don't have a lot left to say, but if you want to keep going beyond our next posts, I'll play :)
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