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#1 Edited by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

Nicol Bolas

Represented by ManaMan
Represented by ManaMan

Darkseid

Represented by me, Ouroborik
Represented by me, Ouroborik

Rules

  • Nicol Bolas from Magic: The Gathering, specifically Post-Mending
  • Darkseid as he was in the Great Darkness Saga
  • In-character, determined to win
  • Win by KO, incapacitation or death
  • Starting distance of 400 meters

Location

Planet Earth
Planet Earth
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#2 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: could you make it a normal planet? Cybertron might actually hinder Bolas

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#4 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

@manaman said:

@ouroborik: could you make it a normal planet? Cybertron might actually hinder Bolas

Sure thing. As in, Earth? Mars? You choose :P

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#5 Edited by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Earth sounds good. Cybertron would give me plenty of metal to manipulate but I doubt it has mana leylines since its manufactured

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#6 Posted by EzraArcher (1165 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh this is gonna be good
T4V

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#7 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

@manaman said:

@ouroborik: Earth sounds good. Cybertron would give me plenty of metal to manipulate but I doubt it has mana leylines since its manufactured

Alrighty

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#8 Edited by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by noah_ouellette (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

@manaman: OI! What about our Star Wars CaV m8! Also t4v

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#10 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by echostarlord117 (5617 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#12 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid

**HEAVY SIMBOLISM**
**HEAVY SIMBOLISM**

The Great Darkness Saga was an epic Legion of Super Heroes story arc from the early 80's featuring one of the most badass versions of Darkseid ever, second only to Final Crisis in my opinion. In this story arc Darkseid reawakens in the 30th Century and resumes his attempts to take over the Universe, except this time none of the good New Gods are left to oppose him. He is faced by the Legion of Super Heroes and a lot of epic showdowns occur.

Power

Darkseid has a lot of powers to help him win this fight, and the feats to back those powers up. Since this is an opener and I still want to see exactly how powerful Nicol is, I'm going start by enumerating Darkseid's main advantages and I'll leave some of the best stuff for later. Let's go.

Durability

It doesn't matter how powerful Nicol Bolas is, he isn't going to be able to take down DS easily, not before DS has time to counterattack and end the battle. Why is that? Darkseid has taken attacks from some of the strongest hitters of the 30th Century, and he was completely fine afterwards. The best example is probably this scene.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here Darkseid tanked a barrage of attacks from the Legion head-on, and just laughed about it. To be clear, the attackers included Wildfire and Ultra-Boy, both Kryptonian-level powerhouses, and the White Witch, a powerful mistress of magic. So in this scene alone Darkseid showed resistance to both Kryptonian-level energy attacks and magic attacks, which I assume are the type of attacks one can expect from Nicol.

Damage Output

Darkseid can dish out as much damage as he can tank. In the following scene, after taking a full blast from Mon-El's heat vision (once again, Kryptonian-level), Darkseid proceeds to one-shot Mon-El.

No Caption Provided

And this attack actually left Mon_El in a coma for the remainder of the storyline! I doubt Nicol can tank repeated stuff on this level.

Furthermore, after KO'ing Mon-El, Darkseid proceeded to probe his mind and find out everything there was to know about his opponent. Which leads me into the next category:

Telepathy

Darkseid's telepathy is so powerful that not only can he probe minds, he can control them at a planetary scale. He managed to take control of 3 Billion Daxamites, which he proceeded to use as slaves to help him conquer the Universe. Unless Nicol has some hardcore telepathy feats, I think he is outmatched in this category as well.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Teleportation

If it just so happens that Nicol enjoys fighting from a distance, don't worry, Darkseid has got that covered.

He can open instantaneous Boom Tubes to teleport anywhere he feels like, making sure he can always be right next to his opponent.

No Caption Provided

Matter Manipulation/Reality Warping

As any good god, Darkseid can bend matter to his will, be it to materialise his opponents worst fears (he can do that) or to turn a powerful enemy into dust. Anyway, Nicol is not safe from this power.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion (for now)

I still have to see exactly what Nicol Bolas is capable of, but I think I've proven that GDS Darkseid is a Skyfather-tier opponent, and has the means to take any kind of opponent down. Much more to come.

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#13 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik:

Nicol Bolas, the God-Pharoah

"I've lived hundreds of your lifetimes. I've survived more apocalypses than you've had chest colds. I've experienced more of this cosmos than any being there has ever been. And you think you're going to stand in my way, matchstick? You think you're the one to finally take me down? I can tell you now, if Nicol Bolas is to fall, it won't be because the likes of you."

Biography

Over 25,000 years ago the Ur-Dragon, the cosmic dragon whose wings reach across the multiverse, flapped its wings over the plane of Dominaria. From the Ur-Dragons wings fell eggs; these were her direct descendants, these were the Elder Dragons. Each Elder Dragon hatched and instantly knew its own name, and each possessed two names. However, one egg was special, for from it hatched not one Elder Dragon but two. These twins were much smaller than their brothers and sisters and they were only born with one name because they had to split the two names between each other; they were Ugin and Nicol.

Ugin and Nicol had very different views about the world, and personalities. Ugin was curious about the world and sought understanding, but Nicol was petty, jealous, and ambitious to a default. Nicol hated being inferior to anyone and so he gave himself a second name, Nicol Bolas. Most of their siblings looked down on the twins and viewed them as inferior, but little did they know that Nicol and Ugin were born with a gift that would make them the greatest of all the Elder Dragons. Nicol and Ugin were planeswalkers.

Back in that era being a planeswalker meant that you were a god. Planeswalkers could not only travel throughout the multiverse on a whim, but they had neigh unlimited power. Nicol Bolas and Ugin were especially powerful planeswalkers, having both the power of the planeswalker and the blood of an Elder Dragon. Nicol Bolas was so powerful that he achieved omnipotence, and a strike from him in combat would leave cracks in the multiverse.

Nicol Bolas wasn't the only ultra powerful being back in that era, in fact planeswalkers were so powerful that the multiverse was threatening to be completely destroyed. Too fix this a planeswalker named Teferi gave up his planeswalker spark and enacted The Mending; a multiversal event that fixed the damage done to the multiverse and also fundamentally changed what it meant to be a planeswalker.

No longer were planeswalkers god-like beings with neigh unlimited power, but they were beings who could travel from plane to plane and explore the multiverse. Because of The Mending Nicol Bolas was stripped of his omnipotence and for the first time in his life knew what it was like to be mortal. Even with his omnipotence removed from him Nicol Bolas is still an Elder Dragon and possesses a magnitude of magical ability beyond the most wild imaginations.

Nicol Bolas had made plans in case The Mending took place. Being a mortal will not do, he views himself as the supreme being, superior to all, and will do everything in his power to regain his former power. No one is safe, millions have already died in his quest, and likely millions will more die before he regains his omnipotence. He will regain his former power and all will fear the name Nicol Bolas!

Intelligence/Knowledge/Minds

Before we get into the nitty gritty of what Bolas is capable of I think its important to establish a few things about his minds/level of knowledge. One of the things about him is that we don't actually know everything he can do. He is a 25,000 year old+ being who has dedicated himself to becoming the most powerful being in all existence. Obviously as a being who prides himself in having more magical knowledge and power than who ever he is facing at the time, he has gathered an absurd amount of magical knowledge. His knowledge goes beyond just magical, and he learned so much over his thousands of years that he has knowledge and skills that are laughably irrelevant to himself. The best example of this is that Nicol Bolas; an immortal, formerly omnipotent dragon, who can fly and teleport on a whim; has mastered the art of sailing.

Yes sailing, as in on a boat.

But the dragon was not finished.

". . . You will also need to know how to sail."

The impact of the psychic weight made Vraska hit the ground this time.

She fell to her hands and knees and landed in the thin layer of water that covered this plane. She gasped at the influx of knowledge. Spinnaker whipstaff leeward leeboard forecastle back splice moonraker headway athwartships—Vraska's mind was overcome with an ocean's worth of knowledge. She grit her teeth and lowered her aching head until her forehead touched the water.

She inhaled. Exhaled.

She limply stood. The vast catalogue of new nautical knowledge in her head felt like a hangover and a study session combined in one foul package. She successfully avoided throwing up.

"You'd be surprised what one learns over millennia of boredom," mused the dragon. "I never found the knowledge useful, but you and your lack of wings will need it if you intend to cross the seas."

The Talented Captain Vraska

You may be wondering how it is relevant to demonstrate that Nicol Bolas knows how to sail. My contention with this is that Nicol Bolas has so much knowledge that he is running out of new things to learn, and indeed has to resort to learning utterly irrelevant things like mastering sailing in the off chance that he has to implant it into someone elses mind. If he's resorting to learning how to sail then he really must have run out of new things to learn about magic and the multiverse, yeno, things that are relevant to himself and his quest for omnipotence. This just goes to demonstrate the Nicol Bolas has a massive amount of knowledge.

If that doesn't have you convinced, in the next quote which establishes him as having a genius level intellect, it also establishes that he has multiverse-spanning resources of lore and mana. Yes multiverse-spanning lore. This guys has a ton of knowledge.

Nicol Bolas is an incredibly ancient and powerful dragon planeswalker with an almost limitless hunger for knowledge and power. He's the combination of genius-level intelligence, archmage-level magical aptitude, multiverse-spanning resources of lore and mana, and diabolical cruelty and power-lust.

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

Not only does Nicol Bolas have absurd amounts of knowledge and a genius level intellect, but his dragon heritage grants him a very unique advantage in his ability to multitask. Nicol Bolas takes this too the extreme and has multiple minds. A normal dragon puts a humans ability to mutlitask to shame, and Nicol Bolas puts other dragons to shame.

Due to their saurian ancestry, most dragons retained great knots of neural ganglia between their wings and at the base of their tails, so large and complex that they were essentially subsidiary brains; the evolutionary adaptation that allowed them to coordinate their subbrains gave many dragons a multitasking capability far beyond any human’s imagination. And Nicol Bolas’s capabilities were beyond the imaginations of dragons.

His mind was a vast and cluttered place, stuffed with twenty-five thousand years of memories, half-forgotten spells, and disordered remnants of dreams and aspirations. Millennia before, he had begun a process of compartmentalizing his mind, setting up an organized mental structure that allowed him to access information he wanted without having to sift through metaphorical mountains of irrelevancies. In the process, he’d split off functions of cognitive processing, virtual minds whose responsibility was the management of each of their particular sectors of knowledge, experience, and skill.

Test of Metal

If Nicol Bolas runs out out of minds to delegate tasks too, he can subdivide his primary consciousness even further for even more crazy multitasking.

Nicol Bolas subdivided his primary consciousness into three parts. One part undertook the mystical focusing of will that was the beginning of planeswalking. The second undertook to summon a specific subset of the dragon’s memories dealing with a certain type of magic. The third phased its attention into the near future, scanning the probability smears for hints of coalescence. When the first part completed its task, a hole in reality began to rip itself open … but instead of stepping into it, Bolas used the second part of his primary consciousness to reach into the Blind Eternities with an intention to doing one or more of a list of magics at his command, while the third kept focused on the future, seeking one that would end with Tezzeret in his hand.

The submind that had been processing his interactions with Tezzeret warned Bolas sternly not to kill him; there was still too much to be learned.

“I’m not going to kill him,” Bolas muttered to himself. “But this is going to hurt.”

He could judge the potential effect of each magic on his second part’s list by scanning the probable futures that shifted and developed as the second part considered this or that spell, power, or combination of such. Neither the first nor third part of his mind was actually aware of what spell he ended up using, but they didn’t have to be; the second part had that issue fully under control, as it was able to use the ætheric dimension of Tezzeret’s armor to channel a combination of telekinesis and minor shaping that transformed, in the current reality, the inside of the mechanist’s etherium breastplate into a blade that shattered his breastbone, slashed open his heart, and severed his spine just between the shoulder blades. “How’s that for power?” several of his subminds said in unison, as at least three of them saw—and one felt—the mechanist’s heart spew most of his blood out through the joints in his armor.

Test of Metal

Basically using this unique advantage he can do crazy combination magics like is demonstrated in the above quote.

Raw Power

I would like to note that this is all before War of The Spark where we will see Nicol Bolas become the "Dragon God". That storyline will probably come out before this debate is over but who knows how powerful Dragon God Bolas will be because War of the Spark looks like its going to be the most insane story MTG has ever put out.

Nicol Bolas, Dragon God
Nicol Bolas, Dragon God

The version of Nicol Bolas we will be using in this debate is solidly multi-planetary. While we have never seen him affect multiple planets, he has been established as being able to perform planetary feats easily, scaled being beyond other planetary beings, as well as once affecting a star.

Nicol Bolas has cast spells on a planetary scale multiple times. Some examples being cursing an entire race on planetary scale, casting physical warping, and destroying souls on a planetary scale.

One of the most straight forward displays of him performing planetary feats is when he destroyed all of Skalla with fire. He destroyed the entirety of Skalla with only one survivor, Vivien Reid, who only survived because she is a planeswalker and traveled to a different plane of existence to escape.

Nicol Bolas took an interest in the Nura and their innovations, and though its archmages tried in vain to fight back, they were no match for the ruthless dragon. After plundering them for their secrets, Bolas decided the plane was of no more use to him and began to destroy it.

Vivien Reid's Biography

Here is Vivien Reid remembering the last moments of Skalla, and notes that Nicol Bolas made the world burn white hot.

"What it is like where you come from?" Frederic traced a finger along the knob of bone that rose from Vivien's brown wrist, the motion precise as the pleating of his lace jabot, and turned her arm onto its back. His touch wandered up the tributaries of her veins, while Luneau, dusk-lit and haunting, flaunted itself through the window.

Vivien tried not to think of an antlered silhouette rising into the sky, tried not to think of the screaming, the pop of skin as it crisps and breaks, tried not to think of how soundless it became as the world burned to white. She tried not to think of fire.

"It was beautiful." she whispered.

Magic the Gathering: Unbowed Part 1\

The best part about this feat is the ease that Nicol Bolas performed it. Viven Reid remembers him laughing while destroying Skalla, indicating that this was easy for him.

This was worse than the torture, worse even than spectacle at the coliseum, worse than anything but the sight of Nicol Bolas rising into that burning sky, laughing as Skalla winked to white.

Magic the Gathering: Unbowed Part 2

Nicol Bolas can destroy a planet with fire with laughable ease, and he has gone far beyond that and performed himself an extremely high quality star level feat. His Second Sun feat is his highest showing, but it is also absolutely absurd in its quality. Let me demonstrate.

On the plane of Amonkhet Nicol Bolas showed up one day and completely took over the plane. He resurrected a monument and promised to return when the second of the planes two suns begins to rest between the horns of the monument.

No Caption Provided

He then cast a spell that made the sun move how he wanted, allowing him to chose when he would come back. Basically he took control of a stars movement.

He spelled the second sun to move as he was ready, to count down until whenever he decided to return. This would be the cornerstone of his machinations on this world.

Magic the Gathering: The Hour of Revelation

Now thats impressive, but wait it gets better. Because Nicol Bolas left the plane and didn't return until the sun reached its point, he wasn't there to maintain the spell. It took sixty years for the sun to reach that point in the sky, meaning his magic held the sun on a very specific path for sixty years in his absence.

The memories began as a trickle, then flooded through him as the tangled dam of magic unraveled. And Rhonas's very spirit recoiled as the true events and nature of the God-Pharaoh revealed itself, a crushing tidal wave sweeping away everything he had believed for the past sixty years.

Magic the Gathering: Hour of Glory

But wait this feat gets even better, because after the sun reached that spot between the horns it stopped moving entirely. While its unclear exactly how much time has passed, its been at least a good couple of weeks in lore if not longer since the sun reached its point between the horns. Yet as we can see in the spoilers for War of the Spark, the sun is still resting between the horns. IT HASN'T MOVED.

(What you are seeing is the Planar Bridge. It is a portal that can transport non-living material between planes. So you are seeing a portal from Ravnica to Amonkhet, and you can see in the portal that the sun is still between the horns.)

No Caption Provided

In recap, Nicol Bolas can perform planetary feats with laughable ease, and has performed planetary feats on a consistent basis.

He can control the movement of star, make it move how he wills for sixty years, and at the end of the sixty years make the sun stop moving entirely, all without maintaining the spell for the entire sixty years. Although this is his highest showing.

Basically Nicol Bolas is one powerful mofo and shouldn't have too much trouble throwing down with the power of Darkseid.

If this is how powerful Bolas is now, imagine what he will be capable of when he becomes the "Dragon God". So hyped.

Defensive Spells

With all of that god-like power you would think that Nicol Bolas would have equally god-like physicals. Well not really. He is extremely physically powerful, just not for his weight class in power when it comes to characters from other media. He is barely effected by mountain+ level beings smashing him with all their might, and can toss that exact same being around like a toy ball, but that doesn't put him anywhere close to Superman's nemesis.

So while Bolas drops the ball physically he does have options to defend himself via magic, and I will prove later on in this post how he will know that he needs to use them before he gets 1 shot.

First off he can turn intangible by disconnecting his body from reality. Unless Darkseid can bring him fully back into reality he should be safe.

The dragon protected himself from the attacks of the other gods by separating himself a half-step from reality. The vision of his form remained, but his body was safe from their blows.

The gods of Amonkhet roared and cursed, but no blow from their weapons would land.

Magic the Gathering: Hours of Revelation

Or he can go astral. Here he is 1 shotting a city in gigantic astral form.

No Caption Provided

If becoming an intangible or astral being doesn't work then Bolas is fantastic at teleporting. He's not just a spacial teleporter, but an interplaner, and temporal teleporter.

He can teleport throughout space instantly, travel between planes of existence, and teleport throughout time and timelines. Yes timelines.

Here Nicol Bolas shrugs and jumps from one timeline to another, completely erasing himself from the existence in his current timeline.

The dragon wrapped himself in his wings and with a shrug wiped himself from existence. Even his footprints disappeared from the etherium sand.

Magic the Gathering: Test of Metal

If it is a directional attack he can rip open holes in reality and BFR the attack into the Blind Eternities (the space of non-existence between planes of existence)

Here Nicol Bolas rips open reality and shoves some planeswalkers into the Blind Eternities for safe keeping. I see no reason why this couldn't be used defensively to BFR attacks.

Then, one at a time, he picked them up, ripped open reality, and shoved each at random into the Blind Eternities. There was no way to predict where any of them might end up, or if any would ever reappear into ordinary reality. While this might be disastrous for unprotected Planeswalkers, the power of Nicol Bolas would preserve them intact until the end of time, and a considerable while beyond it. All Bolas knew for sure—all he needed to know—was that he could bring them to his hand at will. The magic that held them in suspended animation and bound them to him could be broken only by a mage more powerful than its caster.

Magic the Gathering: Test of Metal

As you can see Nicol Bolas has plenty of ways to evade attacks, and should be able to avoid being hit long enough to end the battle.

Offensive Spells

Nicol Bolas knows way too many spells to count, so ill bring up only the ones that become necessary. Basically at this point its more of a what can't he do than what can he do. Nicol Bolas is a spell caster like Dr. Strange or Dr. Fate, and his control over magic makes him one of the most hax characters around.

Lets start off with a magic called Clockworking/Time Manipulation. Basically a clockworker has control over time and timelines. Their ability to control time is limited only by the probability of the outcome and the users raw power. The less likely the outcome the more raw power it takes. See the raw power section if your doubting that Nicol Bolas can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants with time.

“Chronomancy is not even on a nearby plane to clockworking. A clockworker can actually control time. You understand teleportation. To a clockworker adept, time is simply another spatial dimension. They can jump forward and backward in time as easily as you or I might teleport across a room.”

Her frown turned into a scowl. “So if I hit him with something that rocks his world, he can just, like, jump back to right before I hit him and deliver a preemptive smackdown?”

“It’s more complicated than that—clockworking is fiendishly difficult and, no pun intended, time consuming—but essentially, yes. He can also control your own personal temporal flow in ways no magic at our command can counter. No shield will stop you from getting old. And that’s not all.”

She winced. “It gets worse?”

“A good clockworker—which Renn is—can, with proper preparation, move sideways in time.”

“What in the hells is that supposed to mean?”

“You’d have to ask a clockworker for the details,” I said. “I’ve never looked deeply into the theory, and so I have only a layman’s knowledge. The best I can understand is that time isn’t a single straight line—it’s more like a big rope, braided and rebraided out of an infinite number of different temporal strands. Every time you make a choice—turn right instead of left—you split off a new temporal strand. If the choice you make doesn’t affect other nearby main lines—if you arrive at your destidestination at the same moment you would have if you’d turned the other way—your strand gets braided back into the main cable and everything proceeds as usual. But a clockworker adept can sense the nearest strands of other main lines and decide which one he wants to be in. In other words, he can pick and choose the outcome he wants, and move himself into the time line where that’s what happens. And he can take you with him.”

“Wow.”

“Yes. The only limitations of clockworking are the power of the adept and the dictates of probability—the more improbable the outcome the adept is looking for, the more power it takes to get himself into that alternate line."

Magic the Gathering: Test of Metal

Some applications of time manipulation in this battle will be Nicol Bolas scanning the future and alternative timeline futures to find a desirable outcome, then simply take the steps required to achieve that outcome.

Nicol Bolas subdivided his primary consciousness into three parts. One part undertook the mystical focusing of will that was the beginning of planeswalking. The second undertook to summon a specific subset of the dragon’s memories dealing with a certain type of magic. The third phased its attention into the near future, scanning the probability smears for hints of coalescence. When the first part completed its task, a hole in reality began to rip itself open … but instead of stepping into it, Bolas used the second part of his primary consciousness to reach into the Blind Eternities with an intention to doing one or more of a list of magics at his command, while the third kept focused on the future, seeking one that would end with Tezzeret in his hand.

Magic the Gathering: Test of Metal

Obviously being able to scan the many different futures means that Nicol Bolas will know how to react to Darkseids every move. He will see futures where he reacts wrongly and dies, he will see futures where he reacts correctly and lives and chose that course of action.

The next application of clockworking that will be a bugger for Darkseid is, well, creating an undead army of himself. This is something Bolas has done in the past. When fighting an opponent that has the potential to kill him in other timelines Bolas will die. Nicol Bolas can then move his dead bodies to his timeline and reanimate them from the dead to fight on his behalf wielding a portion of the power they did in life.

The dragon reared, forelimbs and wings spreading wide, and brutally intense flame rained down upon the artificer. Baltrice barely managed to raise shields around her and Jace. From what she could see, Tezzeret’s armor seemed to be working just fine. He didn’t appear to notice the hellfire raging around him. He made a quick motion of his right fist, as though delivering a punch to an invisible opponent.

And the dragon exploded.

Right atop the steaming pile of internal organs, Nicol Bolas flashed back into existence. He stretched forth his talon and annihilating energy poured forth, setting the air itself on fire. The power blasted Tezzeret backward and down, sliding into a deep, steep-sided pit of white-hot etherium sand. The fringes of the back blast alone chewed into Baltrice’s shields so fast that she had to grab Jace and dodge back along the plinth to keep them both from being roasted alive.

The dragon kept pouring the blazing torrent of power into the pit as though he couldn’t be bothered with trivial things such as conserving mana. He blasted Tezzeret with levels of energy that should have killed him along with the artificer, as power of this magnitude could be maintained only by pouring his life into the assault along with every scrap of mana he could gather. The intensity of the attack liquefied the sand, turning the pit into a cauldron filled with molten etherium, into which Tezzeret sank like a sounding stone.

And out from which he arose once more, lifting smoothly into the air as though borne aloft by the power that should have destroyed him.

His armor didn’t even look hot.

He clasped his hands in front of his face, and the dragon’s blast was instantly extinguished. He pushed his doubled fists straight downward like a man hoisting himself out of a pool, and the great dragon himself pitched helplessly headfirst into the molten etherium.

A volcanic eruption of flame and burning metal from below blasted upward around Tezzeret without noticeable effect. The effect on the dragon was more spectacular, as his entire head instantly flash-burned to ash, and his neck roared with flame and burned all the way down to his breastbone.

This time two Nicol Bolases appeared simultaneously, on either side of Tezzeret. One simply lashed out and grabbed the artificer, while the other bent his neck to bite the mage in half.

...

Both dragons who had restrained him had been reduced to redly glistering skeletal remains, their flesh having melted and dripped away, puddling beneath their bones in huge pools of meat syrup. But now four dragons came at him, two with magic and two with claws and teeth, and to Baltrice's experienced eye, it looked like Tezzeret was starting to feel the pressure. More and more he started to be focusing on defense, and his counter strikes were no longer instantly lethal.

Not that it would have mattered if they were, as eight more Nicol Bolases came wading through the gore of their predecessors, waiting their turn to attack.

-Magic the Gathering: Test of Metal

Moving on from time manipulation, Nicol Bolas can manipulation or destroy souls. He has been noted as being able to reverse both birth and death using soul manipulation.

No Caption Provided

And finally is leyline manipulation. Basically leylines are the currents through which magic flow through each plane. Nicol Bolas can manipulate these leylines and basically weaponize the plane itself. This is especially useful against abstract enemies because it binds even beings beyond mortal conception.

Nissa Revane used leyline manipulation to capture both Ulamog and Kozilek at the same time. Ulamog and Kozilek are Eldrazi Titans whose existence is beyond mortal conception. Its explained like a fish in a barrel and a human reaches their hand into the water, the fish sees the hand as a monster but cannot comprehend the rest of the being that the hand belongs too. In this scenario mortals are the fish, Eldrazi Titans are the humans. What Nissa Revane did was pull the human fully into the barrel so to speak and then hold them there.

Here she binds them to the plane of Zendikar.

All at once, the pattern fell into place. A tripartite glyph a hundred feet wide appeared on the floor of the valley in fierce green fire. Miles-long loops of pure mana blossomed from the glyph, lashed themselves around the titans, and pulled.

Kozilek and Ulamog tried to lurch away, to wrench themselves free from the land—and they did not just lurch back, Kiora noted, but up. The entangled titans drew themselves up to their full heights, and for a long moment, as winds lashed the landscape, it looked as though they would simply pull free of the leylines. The slack in the loops of mana disappeared as they pulled higher and higher.

But then the leylines snapped taut. They held fast, straight lines anchoring the titans to Zendikar.

Magic the Gathering: Zendikar's Last Stand

Not only did she bind the avatars of Ulamog and Kozilek but she bound the FULL FORMS of both Ulamog and Kozilek, and did it for a very lengthy time.

Motion in the sky drew Kiora's attention. Around the mighty titans, the sky bulged and folded like a brewing storm. But this was not a thunderstorm—this was something else. The color of the heavens twisted from hazy blue to boiling magentas and greens. The sunlight wavered, overshadowed by a spreading, rippling, polyp-like texture. And to Kiora's shock, she saw what was happening to the titans—

Bending, distorting, stretching.

Their heads inflated and curved into elongated necks that rainbowed across the sky.

Their faces widened, curved concave, and unfolded to the horizon and back again.

And then it began raining Eldrazi.

This is new, thought Chandra.

The sky of Zendikar had become the titans. Their forms had enveloped everything, a dome of bruise-colored flesh and bone sheets and void-edged shards. Rather than the titans being pulled into Zendikar, it felt as if Zendikar were now inside the titans—or that, somehow, dimensionality had inverted, and now the outside of their enormous bodies was in every direction Chandra could see.

Ulamog's upper body still rose over the battlefield, but its limbs and tentacles projected out incongruously from various points across the sky. A portion of Kozilek's crown was stretching and rotating across the coarse firmament like an insane moon. Boundaries muddled and entities merged. Otherworldly tendrils reached down out of the magenta heavens, contorting and stretching, and dripped toward the ground like funnel clouds. Eldrazi emerged and unfolded from each offshoot, dropping onto the land with either graceful landings or messy crashes.

Magic the Gathering: Zendikar's Last Stand

Now what do you think happened when Nissa Revane tried to use Leyline Manipulation against Bolas? He one shot her cassually using leylines instead proving that he is far superior with this magic.

If she were to have any chance in this fight, it would be through the earth.

Nicol Bolas's thoughts penetrated her brain, rank and oily. This land is not yours, elf. It is mine. You may not touch it. Dark necrotic energy burst through the leylines she had struggled to control. The corruption lashed through her, shriveling flesh and tissue. She cried out in agony.

She realized the truth now. She never had a chance. The land had submitted to Bolas long ago, had acknowledged its master. She had to be away, away, but the tendrils of corruption held her in place.

Magic the Gathering: Hour of Devastation

This will be a problem for Darkseid. If Nissa Revane can bind two Eldrazi Titans and is 1 shot material to Bolas, the Bolas should be able to bind Darkseid using leylines.

Of course Nicol Bolas has way more spells than these but ill use these too start off the debate.

Some Counters

Telepathy. This is going to be a battle for the ages because Bolas is also a crazy telepath. Darkseid took control of a planet? Bolas altered the memory of an entire planet. On Amonkhet only the powerful sphinxes resisted his mental powers. Which is fine because Nicol Bolas cursed them to never be able to communicate ever again. Both planetary feats because it effected all the creatures on Amonkhet and all the Sphinxes on Amonkhet.

(sorry for the low quality. I don't have digital version of this book.)

The Art of Magic the Gathering: Amonkhet
The Art of Magic the Gathering: Amonkhet

I believe Bolas should hold the edge in TP but this post is too long as is so ill leave things at this for now.

As any good god, Darkseid can bend matter to his will, be it to materialise his opponents worst fears (he can do that) or to turn a powerful enemy into dust. Anyway, Nicol is not safe from this power.

You
Turning enemies to dust? Psht. Easy.
Magic the Gathering: Damnation
Magic the Gathering: Damnation

Opening Thoughts

So far every single legit god Nicol Bolas has ever met has either been killed, fears him, or serves him. Darkseid is just one more to the list :P

Darkseid has the statistical advantage, but thats normal for debating with Nicol Bolas. Nicol Bolas has is a crazy powerful magical being and can do ludicrous things with his magic. I believe that Darkseid simply won't be able to handle the hax of Bolas and will be destroyed in one way or another.

Your move :P
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#16 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumping for more Tags

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#17 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

@manaman: Amazing post! Makes me wish some of my friends would enjoy Magic so I would have someone to play with :(

By the way, is that a Magic-themed South Park episode? I want to watch it!

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#18 Edited by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Thank you.

The South Park episode is called Cock Magic. It is an episode based around MTG. I think its one of their funniest episodes.

Gameplay wise the Meta looks like its going to be trashed by War of the Spark. 30 some planeswalker cards, and they are buffing the power of some of these planewalker cards to make them "more interesting."

Lore wise War of the Spark looks amazing. Nearly every planeswalker that we have been introduced to in the lore are all coming to Ravnica. Nicol Bolas is tricking them all to come there somehow and he is activating the Immortal Sun, an artifact that prevents planeswalkers from leaving the plane. Then hes activating the Planar Gate and transporting a massive undead army from Amonkhet to invade Ravnica. The Gatewatch (MTG's Justice League) has been gaining members and power. Jace Beleren unlocked his full potential, and Gideon Jura acquired a sword that can kill Elder Dragons. And they have Vraska acting as a double agent in Bolas's ranks, but Bolas stole Liliana Vess away from the Gatewatch and now has the multiverses most prominent necromancer acting as the general of his undead army.

Litterally all the collective s**t that has been building up over the last two-three years is going to hit the fan at once. I cant express how hyped I am. Nicol Bolas might achieve omnipotence in this story. The main theory on the internet is that hes going to steal the planeswalker sparks from all the planeswalkers that he tricked into coming to Ravnica, gaining their power.

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#19 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Omg how did I not see this for 3 days straight? Cinematic trailer for War of the Spark.

Liliana Vess betrays Nicol Bolas, Nicol Bolas one shots her. But thats all small stuff because at 0:40 they killed my favorite planeswalker! DACK FAYDEN NOOOOOO!

Loading Video...

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#20 Posted by Brittonic_para (267 posts) - - Show Bio

Bolas? By jove im interested. T4v.

On an off note, im just broken about the fate of my gal avacyn.

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#21 Posted by decaf_wizard (17021 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, so very solid for such a new CV user (at least new to my knowledge)

Tv4, its good to see more MTG fans

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#22 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Brittonic_para (267 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this still going on?

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#24 Posted by ManaMan (510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

@manaman said:

@brittonic_para: I hope so

Yes, it is.

I still haven't finished my post but you can expect it some time close :)

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#26 Posted by Brittonic_para (267 posts) - - Show Bio