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#51 Posted by Streak619 (4335 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@b_r023: hes not human...... Soul steal has never been used on anything not human, ill touch up on that in my reply tho

Sigh. So many things wrong in this one sentence.

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#52 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@b_r023: dw that's not my only argument wait for my post

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#53 Edited by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttals

Rebuttal to your counters against Boros

Rebuttal to your counters to strength

In the OPM world, there is one super-continent, which is then divided into 26 cities. basically 1 City is a Very large Country. Lord boros ship was able to one-shot one of these cities( which is the size of a country), that same attack was launched back at his ship by tatsumaki and it did little to no damage( that basically means that Lord boros ship was able to tank a county lvl attack). see below

Several things. First up, the actual city doesn't make up the whole country. We see mountains, forests, lakes, fields and hidden bases all throughout OPM. Add in the fact that we know there are massive gaps between cities (see the OPM OVA with Tatsumaki, Genos and Fubuki were we see the train take them a massive distance). Second, Tatsumaki didn't hit them back just as hard, as evident from the much smaller explosions. We also see her tossing debris at hypersonic speed and damaging the ship.

First thing first, we do see mountains, forests etc etc, but the guy who worked at Hero association said, he destroyed City A, not he destroyed some of it, not that the forests, mountain etc survived, he destroyed City A, and on the screen we see 99.8%, this could mean he destroyed that amount of the city A, but again we don't know, secondly , in the OVA we see the train travel 5 mins..... not really a "massive" distance like you called it.

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Thirdly, Tatsumaki mananged to lift a base roughly the size of City z which was buried 1,500 meters underground and the base which around the size of a city so we can assume she lifted around 125mil tones(average weight of a city), so we could assume she threw those shells back with a similar amount of force,if not with more force. and lastly if she threw large pieces of buildings and managed to damage the ship, then the attack she reflected at Boros ship would have completely annihilated it(which is didn't ) , even if you wanna lowball Boros to city level(which he isn't) City > mountain level any day( i don't think we need to debate a city is bigger than a mountain do we, cause on another thread you said mountain>city?)

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Ive just proved everything you said in you counters post again Boros(the strength bit i mean) is false, even if you wanna argue that Boros is Multi-city thats fine by me( anyway isn't multi city the same thing as a country?), he's still stronger then Your team combined

And then we have his two strongest attacks, his moon kick, and his CSRC, well talk about his moon kick first, he was able to send saitama about 340,000 km to the moon, while naruto only sent Momoshiki 10miles to the atmosphere...

The Moon kick is generally calculated at mountain level+.

What calculations did you use or are you talking about? I'm curious.

and his oh so famous CSRC, which for this fight will be a planet busting attack(as specified by the OP)

That's out of character to use and takes several seconds to charge.

Out of character? not really he was about to use it against saitama cause nothing else worked, i agree its a last resort, but its not out of character

Even in Sasuke was able to teleport his team to one of kaguya dimension, he would severely weaken himself, and anyway, Sasuke dies very quickly in this fight due to having no durability feats to hang with the OPM team.

Naruto and Madara can just fill his chakra right back up.

True, but when Naruto was fighting Momoshiki and kinshiki at the chunin exams(or whatever its called) Sasuke didn't teleport Naruto away? if he did naruto wouldn't have been captured.

Also there is one thing that the Naruto team have no Counter for, and thats Boros heat, he was able to melt his ship which survived re-entry at 3000f, so boros must be hotter than 3000F, so heat won't both boos anyway( ill talk about that in the durability section)

Boros's heat couldn't effect Saitama's uniform, so clearly it isn't combat applicable given that Genos's attacks could have burnt his uniform off as Saitama himself said.

Saitama uniform also survived re-entry at 3000F so you can't really use that as a gauge, literally just means that genos's attacks are 3000f+ (which they arnt but thats not relevant to the fight)

And its very likely that Naruto and Sasuke will try fight H2H( as they did against each other, Toneri, Momoshiki, kinshiki etc) and when they do, they get heavily outclassed due to his heat, and Raw strength advantage

Nope.

what do u mean by nope? do you mean that Naruto and Sasuke won't try fighting H2H, or that they don't get stomped due to his raw strength advantage? please specify

Sasuke and Naruto die from this

Wrong.

Not really, until you prove that the moon kick is Mountain +

Rebuttal to your counters to durability

Boros has the best Regen in OPM no contest, he's able to grow his arm back instanstly

Naruto regrew his lung in seconds with only 1 tail.

So? Boros came back from soup

i also doubt madara spores would do anything to him either, anyhow he's an alien who survived with no oxygen in space, he isn't gonna need it breathe now

We have no clue if Boros can breath in space. We assume he can, but we have no feats suggesting he can. He also has no resistance feats against poison so moot point.

Onoki mananged to survive the Spore attack, he has no poison resistance feats either, and does boros even have nostrils? since we can assume you have to breathe in the attack for it to affect you

Boros also tanked this from Saitama,

Attacks that are nowhere near mountain level?

And saitama was able to destroy a multi country meteor( as stated by genos, so a casual Saitama punch is Multi country)

Life wiping a country sized area doesn't make you country level. Even then, Saitama's punches always vary in power.

Bang stated that the meteor would destroy that country and the surrounding ones, when did he say it would only life wipe? and saitama punches vary? they don't really do they, he's managed to onset Everyone he's come up against simply because he hits that hard on an average

So boros tanked a multi Country punch From saitama

Nothing suggests thats true.

And then when saitama hit him with multiple Multi Country Level Punches( again, each punch is multi country) Boros was able to regenerate from that

Nothing suggests thats true.

Boros is also Very hot (as I've shown in the strength section) so amertarasu(excuse my spelling) , or any heat bases attack won't do zip to him

Cool. Too bad all Amaterasu will be doing is blinding you and burning Garou to a crisp.

Just to recap, Boros has no soul until you prove he does so no soul rip, he has better durability than Naruto, Sasuke(poor sasuke) and regen on par with Madara, Madara can't even hurt him, even his limbo clones can't , his limbo clones can't even use TSB , the only thing which would be able to even hurt boros, and CT...... is useless

Not how it works. You are claiming Boros has no soul so the burden of proof falls to you.

1). until you provide proof that the meteor wasn't a multi country, it does. 2)see 1. 3 when has amaterasu ever blinded anyone(please provide scans) 4) Alrighty, lets say the OPM team does have a soul, madara goes for a soul steal and The OPM team just pull it back like Naruto did to Nagato.

Rebuttal to your speed Counters against

Boros lacks speed feats NGL, but he does have some impressive ones, he transferred enough Kenetic Energy into Saitama to kick him to the moon, which means Boros would have to be going around mach 400,00k+(got this number from the internet)

Striking Strength =/= Speed

Okay, I've already said Naruto is faster

moves like a laser

A weaker incarnation of Naruto did that in BSM.

okay we get it(xD ) Naruto is faster

im not gonna waste time trying to prove Boros is faster than Naruto cause he most likely isn't( i dint know the mach of light), so i admit it, your team may have speed, but you get outclassed in everything else apart from that

Mach 880991.09.

And Teen Naruto dodges attacks like that. At point blank

See reply 1 and 2

i think thats sums it up nicely, You've lowballed Boros to kingdom come, just like I've wanked him but I've proved above that he's Stronger than your team by a large margin, being multi city if you lowball him, and Multi country if i high ball him, please provide the calcs you used to determine his moon kick was mountain level +, and Boros heat couldn't affect saitama uniform, which survived re-entry at 3000..... that just means his suit is Heat resistant lol

Rebutal to your counters against Garou

Again when it comes to strength, Garou is way stronger than your team, theres no competition (see below)

Nope.

"Nope" doenst really give me any context does it?

Scan 1 shows Garou managing to push back saitama

Saitama never took any damage and was actively holding back. Useless.

yes but he said lemme he was excited to fight, which means that he prepared himself for the attack, and saitama took a barrage from Boros and wasn't phased, and holding back doesn't mean anything as saitama wasn't even trying to block those hits, he just stood there and took em, unless somehow he held back his durability?

Scan 2 shows Saitama tanking a flurry on country+ lvl attacks from Boros without moving, this proves that Garou must be atlas Multi country+ ( if we lowball) in order to have pushed saitama back.

Or the fact that Saitama was actively holding back to not kill Garou despite being leagues above him might have something to do with it. Also, Asura Rhino and Beefcake both ragdolled Saitama, so Rhino and Beefcake>>> Boros and Garou Yes he was holding back against garou

Again, how does one hold back durability? also when Saitama fought AR he was thinking about missing a sale and wasn't focused on the battle at all and didn't even notice AR was hitting him(unlike how he was excited to fight garou), before casually one shotting him(also lemme state that AR blew back a Mountain busting attack so his hits are not a joke, and Beefcake never Ragdolled Saitama, he picked him up due to being several times bigger than a skyscraper and then threw him, i don't see how thats rag dolling but okay.

Garou surivives a rock barrage from Tatsumaki, which he destroys at hyper speed

Nothing to mountain level beings.

Fair enough

Garou managed to trade multiple blows with Saitama for a while

Useless.

not really as saitama busted a multi country+ meteor, you could argue he was holding back his hits though

and lets not forget a casual punch from saitama is multi country+

Saitama's strength constantly changes and he held back against him.

his Strength does change but that was a causal punch, he didn't put any effort into it, he held back against garou(obviously) but still, that was a casual punch , they was no effort put into it, and he himself said he was excited to fight garou , so id say those hits against garou were casual.

Manages to one shot Darkshine, who's skin is stronger than steel, and Sweet mask who had his arm cut off and re attached it like it was nothing

Useless

fair enough

so Garou heavily outclasses your team again, in term of raw strength

Nope

yes he does

note: scans for garou are not the best cause they are from the Webcomic

Eh

fair enough

Rebbutals to your counters against Durability

I feel like this is where garou really shines

Doubtful.

Okay

he tanks a multi country + hit to the face from Saitama

Debunked. Saitama was holding back and nothing suggests those hits were even city level.

Again, a casual punch from sataima is multi country, how much do you think he was holding back? and anyway do you actually have a statement of saitama saying he was holding back? cause thats what you seem to be using for most of your arguments

Tanks another hit from saitama

Useless

not really since a casual hit from Saitama is multi country, and those hits against Garou were casual

Tanks a super serious headbutt from saitama, and if we were to scale this to his Super serious serious punch. then i would put it around continental , so yea he tanks it for the most part, only losing his arm, and then he grows it back in an instant

What? Saitama used a Serious punch against Elder Centipede, but he isn't planet level. You can't scale like that with Saitama

what? thats doesn't make any sense, saitama used his serious punch against EC and guess what? he died. Garou didn't . thats like me saying if Naruto threw a country level attack at itachi and it killed itachi, that itachi is country level, see that makes no sense, thats the same thing you said .

Basically Garou is a beast when it comes to durability, he outclasses Sasuke(poor sasuke) and is on par with Naruto and Madara in this section

His durability by the feats and scaling you've posted caps at Mountain level.

they really don't i just proved that.

Rebuttals to your Counters against Garou speed

Garou has way more speed feats then Boros luckily

Cool.

ite

Blocks around 15 attack from flashy flash which were delivered in 1 centisecond

Calcs cap it at Mach 40.

What calcs? could u drop me a link or something? or just copy and paste the calculations that u saw.

Also doges an attack from atomic samurai who did this

Atomic Samurai's ultimate technique is subsonic. As its 100 slashes in 1 second.

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Garou dodges the attack

Useless

Okay

Also manages to get infront of saitama without him noticing

Saitama is featless

........ sure

And saitama went from the moon to the earth in like under/around 7 seconds or so so its not like he's a slug.

Anime clocks the moon jump at 16 seconds and it's a travel speed feat.

okay. And sure but Naruto and Sasuke only have reaction feats aswell, you provided no actual speed Feats for Naruto.

Rebuttals to your counters against Skill

Garou is the most skilled here, i don't think we even need to debate that

Nice. Too bad skill is useless when your opponents out number you 1000 to 1 and have superior speed, strength and precognition.

Guy wrecked Madara and almost killed him, so skill does matter as guy only uses taijutsu, and Naruto only ever made 2000 clones iirc, so its not 1000 to 1 its 2002 v 3 xD

he combined 12 different martial art styles, along with copying moves from various people, again he copied 12 different styles, in Naruto there's only 1 style, and thats taijutsu.

Taijutsu is the art of fighting. There's multiple styles of taijutsu.

Oh sorry my bad, what are the multiple types of taijutsu i don't remember

And to top it all off, he has precognition

My team's precognition is superior and my team all has near/lightspeed reactions.

Okay, precog can't win you a battle though, or EMS would have beat hashirama, and Reactions speed feats are not combat speed feats. Just because you can dodge a light speed attack, doesn't mean you can attack at light speed.

Rebuttals to your counters against Saitama

Finally its time for Saitama to shine, the strongest of the trio, saitama has a lot of feats but I'm only gonna be listing the high end ones

Ok

ok

Manages to destroy a multi country level meteor( rip CT) so his punch must be atleast multi country+

That meteor's only durability feats are no selling Genos's mountain level blast

That meteor was gonna destroy multiple city sized countries, which means it must be durable enough to hit the ground while causing enough impact to destroy multiple countries, that should give it at least country+ level durability shouldn't it?

Regular sized city

lifs up the monster association basewhich is almost as big as a city sized country

No it wasn't, but lets assume it was,(which again, it isn't)he still lifted around 250,416,934,000 tons, WAY above your pay grade , but lifting strength =/= Striking strength anyway.

Destroys garous arm, even though garou tanked multiple country level attacks

Garou didn't.

yes he did

Best feat. He only uses that to counter planet level attacks and it would be OOC to use it on a human.

for this fight Saitama is Serious, also you put madara would Sacrifice himself to revive naruto and Sasuke and theirs no way in hell he would do that, cmon its madara.

Did this to the moon , and this is at least small continental

Naruto did this

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Which honestly looks more impressive to me given that Saitama does nothing than than make a massive shockwave in the manga which is the primary canon as Murata and ONE both directly work on the manga directly.

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watch that gif again, you can see Naruto and Toneri in the centre, and that makes that attack very small,id only put it at multi city block level. if you scale the AOE from the size of naruto and toneri. you'll see that attacks really tiny

Nope.

yes, just to recap Tatsumaki has lifted 125mil tons aswell(she lifted a city sized base), it can be argued she threw the shells back with even more Force. Again i prove you need atlaest a country+ attack above in order to damage the ship

so just to recap, saitama is a planet buster, stronger than your team combined, and can one shot each of your team due to having no durability feats on his level bar madara due to his regen.

If he goes all out immediatley and uses his OOC serious punch. Yes, he is. Too bad he will never tag my team.

Your team only have reaction feats, please provide actual speed feats, theres nothing stating that your team could tag my team aswell

Rebuttal to your counters against durability

No one holds a candle to saitama when it comes to durability

True. Only when it comes to blunt force and energy durability.

Yup

he manages to tank multiple country+ attacks from boros

Boros is city level.

he isn't, and even if he was(Which again he isn't), City > Mountain any day(anyways I've proved he's way above that in my rebuttal section on Boros)

Gets sent to the moon, survives with no oxygen and survives being in a vacuum( cause there's no air). also lemme just say he survives re-entry at 3000f so not heat based attack will phase him.

Fair enough.

cool

Tanks multiple multi country+ attacks from Garou

Nope.

Proved that already

No heat based attack will phase him, limbo is featless , light fang is featless , saitama can hold his breathe through that spore justu, he aint got a soul till u prove he does.

Amaterasu will blind him, Limbo is equal to Madara, lightfang destroyed Naruto's TSB rod and would have killed him had he not dodged, he can't hold his breath forever, you have to prove he doesn't.

Has amaterasu ever blinded someone before? Sasuke never used it again kinshiki so its OOC he'll use it here, limbo being equal to madara doesn't prove much, lightfang was a senjutsu attack and therefore Naruto TSB rod could not tank it, there no feats saying it would have killed him anyway so its fealess, true he can't hold his breathe forever, but he holds it long enough to punch the gas away like he has done to clouds and rain before, He grabs his soul from Madara like Naruto did to Nagato, and Saitama is WAY stronger, lifting 125m tones ( the weight of an average city)

Rebuttal to your counters against Saitama speed

went online to search how fast his moon jump would be and i got this

In the scene where he gets kicked to the moon, assuming that boros's dialogue was the entire duration of saitamas jump back to earth (18 seconds) then that means he was traveling slightly under 67,500,000 feet per second.

I did a calc and by highballing the jump by 2 seconds I got Mach 70043.731778 which is inferior to light speed which is Mach 874030. So he's slower in his travel speed by a ludicrous amount.

You've only provided Reaction speeds for Naruto and Sasuke

he can keep up with the Naruto Trio, even if they're faster then him

Wrong.

Yes he can cause they only have reaction feats, not actually combat speed feats, they can dodge our attacks, but they can't throw punches at light speed since they have no combat speed feats can they?

Rebuttal to your Counters against my summary

  • no they don't I've just proved that

You've wanked Boros and Garou to high heaven.

Just like you've lowballed them to kingdom come

  • True, but reacting speed and actual speed are very different

Indeed. Ones useful and the other isn't.

Both are pretty useful imo, for example, if i could dodge 1 bullet at the speed of sound, that doesn't mean i can throw a punch at the speed of sound does it? itachi reacted to lightning and we all know he's not faster than lightning.

  • Soul rip won't work till u prove they have a soul, they tank RS and Amaterasu due to being hotter themselves(boros is 3000f+, Saitama tanked 3000f+ attacks aswell so yea), they tank piercing attacks(also what attack did you mean specifically?), and what sealing methods are you talking about?(do you mean the magnet resengan? its never restrained anyone as powerful as the OPM trio so yea, pretty featless), and TSB Have no speed feats or feats damaging anything as durable as the OPM Trio

You have to prove they don't have a soul. RS cuts you on a cellular level which you haven't proven you can tank. Chidori possess piercing properties and Sasuke uses a sword which he can teleport inside your brain. Magnet Rasengan restrained a Limbo clone and since Madara > Boros and Garou they can be restrained. TSB ignore conventional durability by erasing you.

Okay they have a soul, They pull it back Like Naruto did due to being WAY stronger than him, even if RS cut us on a cellular level it doesn't bypass durability, Sasuke has never Teleported Anything inside of anyones brain xdddddd(did you make that up?) Sasuke can switch places with people/things, not teleport random stuff, Madara is not > Boros and Garou(just proved that) and provide scans of TSB bypassing Durability

  • True(bar garou) but we heavily outclass you in strentgh in H2H, which Naruto and Sasuke always use as a first resort( their fight with Momoshiki, Toneri, Kinshiki and each other prove that)

My team is stronger than Boros and Garou and are so hilariously faster than Saitama he'll never tag them when you factor in their precognition and clones.

they are not stronger, you've only provided Reaction speed feats for your team. they have no combat speed feats to suggest they're that faster than my team

  • Boros is an alien who for all we know doest breathe, Saitama holds his breath like he did in space, and garou should tank it, or saitama punches the gas away(like he's done to rain and clouds before)

Boros has no feats suggesting he can resist it. Saitama needs to breath. Garou can't tank it (Though I can think of a way he can resist it but I'll wait for you to bring it up) and the pollen isn't visible.

Onoki had no feats and he resisted it, saitama can hold his breathe and punch it away, Garou could hold his breathe( well should be able to hold his breathe long enough for saitama to punch is away) and that pollen was pretty visible in the anime.

  • true but thats very out of character

So is Saitama or Boros Planet Busting

Boros uses it as a last resort, saitama, meh not really he used it against Garou, Boros and EC, pretty good chance he'll use it here

  • Limbo can't damage us

Limbo is equal to Madara who stomps Boros and Garou in CQC

this is very, very, wrong.this sentence is probably the most false thing in your entire counter. go watch Guy vs Madara again.

  • I guarantee they can break both susanoo and kyuubi avatar with 1 hit, both being above country themselves

Only Saitama can one shot it and even then he'll have to tag the avatars first (considering both of them can fly...)

Saitama jumped from the moon to the earth, I'm sure he could tag them, and the others can one shot it aswell due to feats I've provided

  • then Sasuke becomes weaker, and Sasuke won't last that long anyway

Naruto can amp him with Chakra.

Very good point

  • he's used his serious moves again garou and he wasn't threatening the planet then

He was actively holding back. He didn't want to kill Garou since he still considered him human, he even let him go towards the end of the fight and called him a "Sweet Person".

true, but this version of saitama is serious, as stated by the OP.

Counters to the reasons why you win

  • Naruto

    • Rasenshuriken is a cutting attack which your characters have no resistance against.

it being a cutting attack doesn't mean it bypasses durability

  • Magnet Release can seal Boros and Garou.

Cant as its never sealed someone as strong as either of the two

  • Clone spam + Rasenshuriken barrage.

Equals moot, They tank RS

  • Sasuke

    • Soul Rip + Teleportation with his superior speed

Sasuke hasn't been shown to ever use Soul rip, so its OOC that he'll use it now

  • Chibaku Tensei on Boros and Garou before teleporting a sword through Saitama

Sasuke has never done that please don't make things up

  • Chidori spam Saitama with Teleportation before doing the same to Boros and Garou until they die

Momoshiki reacted to Sasuke, I'm sure the trio can two

  • Use Amaterasu to blind the 3 of them before soul ripping

They pull there souls back, provide scans of amaterasu blinding anyone please

  • Pull them in with Bansho Tenin before stabbing through you all with Blaze Release or Soul Rip

I've countered soul rip before, they tank blaze release

  • Drop a Kirin. You have no feats suggesting your hearts wont just stomp from the lighting

They all tank Kirin, Boros might not even have a heart due to being an alien.

  • Madara

    • Bansho Tenin into Soul Rip

Already defended against soul rip

  • Bansho Tenin into TSB

a viable option, please show feats of TSB bypassing Durability

  • Wood Release to drop you with spores before soul ripping

I've already countered spores

  • Seal Boros and Garou with Chibaku Tensei before soul ripping or stabbing Saitama

they break out of it LOL

  • Have Limbo stomp Boros and Garou before soul ripping Saitama

This doesn't happen due to them not being able to hurt Boros and Garou, Saitama pulls his soul back.

Reasons why i win

  • We stomp in CQC
  • We can Planet bust
  • Sasuke again is a non factor due to having no durability feats feats on par with his team
  • Boros is way too hot and we tank heat(except garou but Sasuke didn't use amaterasu on kinshiki or shin uchiha so its OOC he'll use it now
  • You can't hurt us lol
  • Your team have no Durability feats with Planet busting

Strategies

  1. We Stomp Sasuke and then triple team Naruto and Madara
  2. Garou kills Sasuke , then Planet bust GG
  3. Saitama Kills Sasuke by one-shotting, CSRC GG
  4. Boros CSRC madara, Garou holds off Naruto, Saitama one shots Sasuke, then they all gang up on Naruto and he dies a truly sad death.

Summary

i win, your only option is your TSB and they have no speed feats

Narutos best Durability/cutting Durability feat

No Caption Provided

Sword> Country level hits? Naruto gets pierced by a sword so 1 hit should kill him.(you did the same thing to Saitama so why not)

@chaos239

i await your reply

@streak619 there ya go

(note: its 2am so ill be fixing any typos in the morning sorry, Also the Formatting turned out kinda weird so I'm sorry about that, ill try my best to fix it when i wake up)

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#54 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 have you seen my reply? only asking cause I've seen thats you've been online and you haven't responded to my rebuttal

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#55 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
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#56 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#58 Posted by Streak619 (4335 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: Obviously he will.

Online
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#59 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#62 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Internets been up and down and CV has been eating my posts. Should be up by tonight.

@vsw:

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#65 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@chaos239: oh shit ur back locking forward to it

Banned for swears

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#66 Posted by GearSecond659 (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: Wait, you can get banned for swearing...

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#67 Edited by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's go again

Me vs Your Argument
Me vs Your Argument

Counters to Boros

Countering Strength

First thing first, we do see mountains, forests etc etc, but the guy who worked at Hero association said, he destroyed City A, not he destroyed some of it, not that the forests, mountain etc survived, he destroyed City A, and on the screen we see 99.8%, this could mean he destroyed that amount of the city A, but again we don't know, secondly , in the OVA we see the train travel 5 mins..... not really a "massive" distance like you called it.

No, but the actual city doesn't span the whole country. So he didn't destroy a country sized city.

Thirdly, Tatsumaki mananged to lift a base roughly the size of City z which was buried 1,500 meters underground, so we could assume she threw those shells back with a similar amount of force, and lastly if she threw large pieces of buildings and managed to damage the ship, then the attack she reflected at Boros ship would have completely annihilated it(which is didn't ) , even if you wanna lowball Boros to city level(which he isn't) City > mountain level any day( i don't think we need to debate a city is bigger than a mountain do we, cause on another thread you said mountain>city?)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Tatsumaki clearly didn't throw it back with anywhere near the same force, we also see her damaging the ship with debris.

Also Mountains > City. That's common logic on Comicvine.

Ive just proved everything you said in you counters post again Boros(the strength bit i mean) is false, even if you wanna argue that Boros is Multi-city thats fine by me( anyway isn't multi city the same thing as a country?), he's still stronger then Your team combined

No. Boros can, at best destroy a city with a single punch. By scaling he's mountain level.

What calculations did you use or are you talking about? I'm curious.

A reddit calc here puts it at like Island level.

Out of character? not really he was about to use it against saitama cause nothing else worked, i agree its a last resort, but its not out of character

Due to the nature of my teams attacks he won't get a chance. But I'll cover this later.

True, but when Naruto was fighting Momoshiki and kinshiki at the chunin exams(or whatever its called) Sasuke didn't teleport Naruto away? if he did naruto wouldn't have been captured.

Because then the Bijuudama would have wiped out the Land of Fire or the fight against Momoshiki and Kinshiki would have taken place in Konoha which Naruto didn't want.

Saitama uniform also survived re-entry at 3000F so you can't really use that as a gauge, literally just means that genos's attacks are 3000f+ (which they arnt but thats not relevant to the fight)

Saitama's uniform was burnt up slightly after the jump. Either Boros's heat can't be used in a fight or his energy doesn't affect his opponent.

what do u mean by nope? do you mean that Naruto and Sasuke won't try fighting H2H, or that they don't get stomped due to his raw strength advantage? please specify

They won't get stomped.

Not really, until you prove that the moon kick is Mountain +

Provided the calc which highballs it.

Countering Strength

So? Boros came back from soup

That's just going to prolong his suffering when the Limbo clones play volleyball with him.

Onoki mananged to survive the Spore attack, he has no poison resistance feats either, and does boros even have nostrils? since we can assume you have to breathe in the attack for it to affect you

After the moon kick Boros was left panting and standing there exhausted so he clearly breathes. Onoki resisting it is a feat FOR him.

Bang stated that the meteor would destroy that country and the surrounding ones, when did he say it would only life wipe? and saitama punches vary? they don't really do they, he's managed to onset Everyone he's come up against simply because he hits that hard on an average

He said the cities and surrounding ones. Yes they do.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

They range from Mountain level to Planet level with many instances of much less.

1). until you provide proof that the meteor wasn't a multi country, it does. 2)see 1. 3 when has amaterasu ever blinded anyone(please provide scans) 4) Alrighty, lets say the OPM team does have a soul, madara goes for a soul steal and The OPM team just pull it back like Naruto did ( forward the video to 23:15)

Let me just clear this up.

Prove Saitama punched Boros with Country levels of force. The only damage he did was this

No Caption Provided

Which shows Saitama pasting Boros and the the ship behind being destroy.

there's your counter to soul steal, obviously i can't prove the OPM trio don't have a soul.(also lemme just add that Naruto had no knowledge on the justu, just like the OPM trio won't and they are ALOT stronger than Naruto

What video? Also Amaterasu is a Black flame. If Sasuke uses it to engulf your team then they won't be able to see through the flames.

Countering Speed

Okay, I've already said Naruto is faster

Everyone is Faster since Sasuke is superior to Teen Naruto and Madara is his equal.

okay we get it(xD ) Naruto is faster

They all are.

See reply 1 and 2

i think thats sums it up nicely, You've lowballed Boros to kingdom come, just like I've wanked him but I've proved above that he's Stronger than your team by a large margin, being City if you lowball him, and Multi country if i high ball him, please provide the calcs you used to determine his moon kick was mountain level +, and Boros heat couldn't affect saitama uniform, which survived re-entry at 3000..... that just means his suit is Heat resistant lol

City level is inferior to mountain level which I've proved my team all operates at while weakened. Boros's heat didn't effect Saitama whatsoever and showed no signs of damaging him.

Counters to Garou

Counter to Strength

"Nope" doenst really give me any context does it?

Garou doesn't have country level striking since no one he scales from does either.

yes but he said lemme he was excited to fight, which means that he prepared himself for the attack, and saitama took a barrage from Boros and wasn't phased, and holding back doesn't mean anything as seriatim was blocking those hits, unless somehow he held back he durability?

Saitama puts in different amounts of effort. He didn't brace for Garou hits is all. Even then, Boros doesn't hit as hard as my team on average anyway.

Again, how does one hold back durability? also when Saitama fought AR he was thinking about missing a sale and wasn't focused on the battle at all and didn't even notice AR was hitting him, before casually one shotting him(also lemme state that AR blew back a Mountain busting attack so his hits are not a joke, and Beefcake never Ragdolled Saitama, he picked him up due to being several times bigger than a skyscraper and then threw him, i don't see how thats rag dolling but okay.

He didn't brace. Pushing back =/= Hurting Saitama is my point with Rhino and Beefcake.

not really as saitama busted a multi country+ meteor, you could argue he was holding back though

He was.

hIS Strength does change but that was a causal punch, he didn't put any effort into it, he held back against garou(obviously) but still, that was a casual punch , they was no effort put into it, and he himself said he was excited to fight garou , so he wasn't holding back that much

Saitama's punch against the meteor was the most serious punch he's used bar the one against Boros as he was actively protecting thousands of citizens, Genos, Bang and his home.

yes he does

Mountain level at best vs Mountain level while weakened?

Counters to Durability

Again, a casual punch from sataima is multi country, how much do you think he was holding back? and anyway do you actually have a statement of saitama saying he was holding back? cause thats what you seem to be using for most of your arguments

The meteor punch was not casual. Garou was still human to him. He was lecturing him the whole time and even let him go.

not really

Yep, Saitama's strength varies to much.

what? thats doesn't make any sense, saitama used his serious punch against EC and guess what? he died. Garou didn't . thats like me saying if Naruto threw a country level attack at itachi and it killed him, that itachi is country level, see that makes no sense, thats the same thing you said .

No, your scaling the serious headbutt off his other serious moves, I was showing that they vary massively in power. Nothing suggests that headbutt was Continental at all.

Basically Garou is a beast when it comes to durability, he outclasses Sasuke(poor sasuke) and is on par with Naruto and Madara in this section

Sasuke with his susanoo has Country level durability unlike Garou.

they really don't.

They do.

Counters to speed

What calcs? could u drop me a link or something? or just copy and paste the calculations

Right here

........ sure

Show me a reaction or combat speed feat that makes this impressive then?

okay. And sure but Naruto and Sasuke only have reaction feats aswell

A reaction speed feat is much more useful than travel speed feats. If you want combat feats how about some quick scaling then.

Itachi reacted to Kirin which is confirmed by Zetsu to be lightning speed. Itachi thus clearly is a lightning timer right?

We can all agree SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke would blitz Itachi effortlessly right?

So they clearly move faster than lightning.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Counters to skill

Guy wrecked Madara and almost killed him, so skill does matter as guy only uses taijutsu, and Naruto only ever made 2000 clones iirc, so its not 1000 to 1 its 2002 v 3(xD)

Guy in the 8th Gate fought Madara before the Shinju and Rinnegan amp, Madara was also messing around against Guy and he didn't have 1000 clones to defend him

Oh sorry my bad, what are the multiple types of taijutsu i don't remember

Gai and Lees style, Gentle fist etc

Okay, precog can't win you a battle though, or EMS would have beat hashirama, and Reactions speed feats are not combat speed feats

EMS Madara wasn't ludicrously faster than Hashirama and didn't fight him in CQC

Counters to Saitama

ok

No Caption Provided

That meteor was gonna destroy multiple city sized countries, which means it must be durable enough to hit the ground and cause enough impact to destroy multiple countries, that should give it at least country level durability shouldn't it?

I'm not gonna argue this point and neither should you. We both know Saitama's striking is planet level

No it wasn't, but lets assume it was,he still lifted around 250,416,934,000 tons, WAY above your pay grade , but lifting strength =/= Striking strength

Indeed.

yes he did

No he didn't.

for this fight Saitama is Serious, also you put madder would Sacrifice himself to revive naruto and Sasuke and theirs no way in hell he would do that, cmon its madara.

I know. I simply brough it up, I haven't argue it. Also Serious =/= Bloodlusted

watch that gif again, you can see Naruto and Toneri in the centre, and that makes that attack very small,id only put it at multi city block level if you scale the AOE from the size of naruto and toner, compared to the large shockwaves saitama produced.

Naruto did more damage, Saitama just kicked up dust.

yes, just to recap Tatsumaki has lifted 125mil tons, it can be argued she threw it back with even more Force. Again i prove you need atlas a country+ attack above.

Tatsumaki did not hit it with country level force. I have debunked this with scans from the manga itself.

If he goes all out immediatley and uses his OOC serious punch. Yes, he is. Too bad he will never tag my team.

Your team only have reaction feats, please provide actual speed feats

My team would blitz Itachi who can react to lightning. Naruto and Sasuke crossed a country in base in the span of a conversation. Sasuke can hold his own and not have every single attack dodged by Naruto.

Counters to durability

Yup

Rasenshruiken cuts you which means you need feats against cutting attack to suggest you can tank it, Sasuke uses a lightning amped sword so can I have some feats to suggest you can take it?

he isn't, and even if he was(Which again he isn't), City > Mountain any day(anyways I've proved he's way above that above)

What? Mountain level >>> City level. A nuke can wipe out a city but do nothing to a mountain.

Proved that already

Disproved that already.

Has amaterasu ever blinded someone before? Seasick never used it again kinshiki so its OOC he'll use it here, limbo being equal to madder doesn't prove much, lightfang was a senjutsu attack and therefore Naruto TSB rod could tank it, there no feats saying it would have killed him anyway so its fealess, true he can't hold his breathe forever, but he holds it long enough to punch the gas away like he has done to clouds and rain before, He grabs his soul from Madara like Naruto did to Nagato, and Saitama is WAY stronger, lifting 125m tones ( the weight of an average city)

Its black fire. How can you see through it? Sasuke couldn't use most of his abilites against Kinshiki since he was weakened. Madara is superior to Garou and Boros. If Naruto could no sell it why did he dodge? How will he know to punch away the spore or even hold his breath? We have seen Pain rip out souls instantly, Nagato just took so long because he needed to capture the Kyuubi. Sasuke and Madara will get in, use their superior speed and pull the soul out far faster than Nagato did.

Counters to speed

I'll go more in depth later

Counters to the Summary

  • Just like you've lowballed them to kingdom come

I've been realistic and waited for feats.

  • Both are pretty useful imo, for example, if i could dodge 1 bullet at the speed of sound, that doesn't mean i can fight someone throwing multiple speed of sound punches does it?

If I can dodge a bullet and then fight a regular human I'll dance around them with ease. You haven't given any combat speed feats near lightspeed so my team will dance around your team.

  • Okay they have a soul, They pull it back Like Naruto did due to being WAY stronger than him, even if RS cut us on a cellular level it doesn't bypass durability, Sasuke has never Teleported Anything inside of anyones brain xdddddd, Madara > Boros and Garou(just proved that) and

Sasuke and Madara have no reason to hold back like Nagato did (to capture Kurama) and can simply restrain them with

  • they are not stronger, you've only provided Reaction speed feats for your team.

They are. Boros and Garou are mountain level on average via scaling. You haven't given any feats above mach 40 (Combat) or even close to lightspeed (travel) meanwhile SPSM Naruto would utterly blitz Itachi, did blitz Kaguya and everyone between who are all bare minimum lightning speed in reactions.

  • Onoki had no feats and he resisted it, saitama can hold his breathe and punch it away, Garou could hold his breathe( well should be able to hold his breathe long enough for saitama to punch is away and that pollen was pretty visible in the anime.

Onoki resisting it IS a feat. Saitama won't realise whats happening until its too late. Garou won't realise either. They won't realise until they're knocked out.

  • Boos uses it as a last resort, saitama, meh

Exactly. Saitama won't even when Serious.

  • this is very, very, wrong

Limbo has been stated to be just that.

  • Saitama jumped from the moon to the earth, I'm sure he could tag them, and the others can one shot it swell due to feats I've provided

But he's mach 10,000 behind Lightspeed.

  • Very good point

Thank you

  • true, but this version of seriatim is serious, as stated by the OP.

Serious, not Out of Character.

Why we win

Ok, I feel like like I haven't been giving this my all. I see alot of problems in my post so Ill try to sum everything well here.

How will we deal with Boros?

Boros

Now, Boro's regeneration is far better than my team, I don't deny that. However I can see

  • He lacks quantifiable speed feats
  • He lack any good durability feats
  • His physicals aren't enough to get through our Susanoo and Kyuubi
  • He lacks the skill to deal with our Precognition, Shadow/Wood Clones, Skill and any Limbo in CQC
  • He lacks any cutting resistance feats to survive a Rasenshuriken
  • His alien biology isn't a good enough argument as we see him breathing heavily after his fight with Saitama
  • He can't BFR us with the kick as Naruto, Madara and Sasuke can fly
  • He can be sealed by Magnet Release

Garou is the most dangerous honestly in CQC.

Garou

Much like Boros, Garou has his own niche. His skill.

However...

  • The only speed feat you've shown is a whopping Mach 40
  • His durability is lacklustre
  • His striking is just as meh to them both
  • He (much like your other members) can't counter our clones or spores
  • He also can't survive a Rasenshuriken from naruto
  • Our superior Precognition (Garou's relies on the opponent being an amateur) will let us win along with our speed and strength
  • Magnet Release or soul rip

Saitama

Oh boy...

  • Same old on speed
  • Your cutting and piercing durability are literally non existent
  • He won't use his planet busting punches in character and Precognition counter his strength
  • He will be wore down by spores and clones
  • His skill is none existent
  • Soul rip boyo

So I know this is terrible but I'm scared of CV eating it, next CaV I will improve.

@vsw Yours can be the last post, I sorta lost my motivation for this.

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#68 Edited by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: woah woah woah, mountains > city? Do we honestly need to debate this? also reply will be up soon

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#69 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by GearSecond659 (3250 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: K. Good to know.

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#71 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: I like this also vote on my vsw cav naruto vs boros

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#72 Posted by Xdragon2002 (750 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#73 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio

Since when can sauske fly and i see so many faults in both your posts especially when it comes posts

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#74 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
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#75 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: not his actual body

Also i stopped watching boruto after the mist arc though i watched the last couple episodes interested in what urashiki is gonna do

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#76 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
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#77 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
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#79 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (5550 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: fair enough though thats not that big a deal

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#80 Edited by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Edited by ONEPUNCHGOD (37 posts) - - Show Bio

LORD BOROS SOLO

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#83 Posted by pmcinelly784 (1081 posts) - - Show Bio

I think vsw has my vote already, unless he messes something up in his last post lol. T4V anyways

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#84 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Rebuttals to your counters on Boros

Strength

First thing first, we do see mountains, forests etc etc, but the guy who worked at Hero association said, he destroyed City A, not he destroyed some of it, not that the forests, mountain etc survived, he destroyed City A, and on the screen we see 99.8%, this could mean he destroyed that amount of the city A, but again we don't know, secondly , in the OVA we see the train travel 5 mins..... not really a "massive" distance like you called it.

No, but the actual city doesn't span the whole country. So he didn't destroy a country sized city.

The city itself doesn't have to span a whole country, the fact is Boros destroyed the Whole country, end of. Also do you have any actual proof that City A has Mountains and forests? cause in that OVA with fubuki and genos it obviously wasn't City A that they traveled to/from.

Thirdly, Tatsumaki mananged to lift a base roughly the size of City z which was buried 1,500 meters underground, so we could assume she threw those shells back with a similar amount of force, and lastly if she threw large pieces of buildings and managed to damage the ship, then the attack she reflected at Boros ship would have completely annihilated it(which is didn't ) , even if you wanna lowball Boros to city level(which he isn't) City > mountain level any day( i don't think we need to debate a city is bigger than a mountain do we, cause on another thread you said mountain>city?)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Tatsumaki clearly didn't throw it back with anywhere near the same force, we also see her damaging the ship with debris.

Tatsumaki didn't throw it back with anywhere near the same force? she managed to pick up a hideout almost the size of a country sized city, i can argue she threw it back with even more force.That debris didn't damage the ship? it if did we would have seen it affect/damage/interact with Boros crew(which it didn't)

Also Mountains > City. That's common logic on Comicvine.

Bruh, if you or anyone wants to debate this elsewhere come @ me

Ive just proved everything you said in you counters post again Boros(the strength bit i mean) is false, even if you wanna argue that Boros is Multi-city thats fine by me( anyway isn't multi city the same thing as a country?), he's still stronger then Your team combined

No. Boros can, at best destroy a city with a single punch. By scaling he's mountain level.

Again city > mountain, and you're lowballing Boros. a lot. by scaling he's atlas multi city

What calculations did you use or are you talking about? I'm curious.

A reddit calc here puts it at like Island level.

in that calc the guy put the kick at 500 nukes and just to clarify, it would take around 32 nukes to destroy the whole of the United kingdom as shown here, which is absurdly above island level.like, by a lot.

Saitama uniform also survived re-entry at 3000F so you can't really use that as a gauge, literally just means that genos's attacks are 3000f+ (which they arnt but thats not relevant to the fight)

Saitama's uniform was burnt up slightly after the jump. Either Boros's heat can't be used in a fight or his energy doesn't affect his opponent.

Actually Saitama uniform was burnt before the jump, right after Boros used his chest beam(can't remember the name) as you can see here

what do u mean by nope? do you mean that Naruto and Sasuke won't try fighting H2H, or that they don't get stomped due to his raw strength advantage? please specify

They won't get stomped.

How? when each hit from Boros is country +

Provided the calc which highballs it.

again, that calc put his kick at 500 nukes, while it takes 32 nukes to destroy the UK(which consists of 4 countries) 500 nukes would destroy around 45-50 countries , which means the kick is continental

Durability

Onoki resisting it is a feat FOR him.

your not getting my point, Onoki had no prior feats against poison, just like the OPM trio don't

He said the cities and surrounding ones. Yes they do.

bruh, each country is Called a city, city A, city B, city C etc. what was Bang supposed to say?

They range from Mountain level to Planet level with many instances of much less.

That first punch against genos didn't even touch anything, it was the air pressure that destroyed a mountain, that punch against DSK was multi country swell, hence the fact why DSK got one-shoted

Prove Saitama punched Boros with Country levels of force. The only damage he did was this

No Caption Provided

Which shows Saitama pasting Boros and the the ship behind being destroy.

What is this supposed to mean? I've proved in order to damage Boros ship you have to be at least country+.

there's your counter to soul steal, obviously i can't prove the OPM trio don't have a soul.(also lemme just add that Naruto had no knowledge on the justu, just like the OPM trio won't and they are ALOT stronger than Naruto

What video? Also Amaterasu is a Black flame. If Sasuke uses it to engulf your team then they won't be able to see through the flames.

sorry the video link didn't work, click here (watch 23:10 to 23:20)

you've provided no proof of amaterasu ever blinding anyone tho, and he's never used it against anyone like that, its OOC that he'll do it now

Speed

Boros's heat didn't effect Saitama whatsoever and showed no signs of damaging him.

Again, Saitama survived re-entry, while Naruto was afraid of Kaguya lava in her lava dimension

Rebuttal to you counters against Garou

Garou doesn't have country level striking since no one he scales from does either.

Apart from Saitama you mean

No Caption Provided

Saitama puts in different amounts of effort. He didn't brace for Garou hits is all. Even then, Boros doesn't hit as hard as my team on average anyway.

Saitama said he was excited, which meant that he was ready, which meant he braced for the attack, and your team don't even come close to Boros, as you've been lowballing my team alot

Again, how does one hold back durability? also when Saitama fought AR he was thinking about missing a sale and wasn't focused on the battle at all and didn't even notice AR was hitting him, before casually one shotting him(also lemme state that AR blew back a Mountain busting attack so his hits are not a joke, and Beefcake never Ragdolled Saitama, he picked him up due to being several times bigger than a skyscraper and then threw him, i don't see how thats rag dolling but okay.

He didn't brace. Pushing back =/= Hurting Saitama is my point with Rhino and Beefcake.

HE DID BRACE AND WAS FULLY PREPARED FOR THE ATTACK as he himself said he was looking forward to it, unlike with rhino where he was focussing on missing a sale and again, beefcake picked up saitama due to being bigger than a sky scraper, that doesn't count as "pushing back saitama". :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

hIS Strength does change but that was a causal punch, he didn't put any effort into it, he held back against garou(obviously) but still, that was a casual punch , they was no effort put into it, and he himself said he was excited to fight garou , so he wasn't holding back that much

Saitama's punch against the meteor was the most serious punch he's used bar the one against Boros as he was actively protecting thousands of citizens, Genos, Bang and his home.

it was a casual punch, he didn't even make a name for it which means there wasn't that much power behind it, unlike when he did Against Boros and Garou(super serous headbutt, super seruious punch, super serious table flip)

yes he does

Mountain level at best vs Mountain level while weakened?

So garou matching punches with Saitama (who's Casual punch in multi country) puts him at mountain level? *sigh* the lowball is getting kinda out of hand at this point

Durability

The meteor punch was not casual. Garou was still human to him. He was lecturing him the whole time and even let him go.

how was it not casual?? if it was on par with his other attacks it would have been a super serious punch or he would have called it something super serious, which he didn't, i.e it was casual

No, your scaling the serious headbutt off his other serious moves, I was showing that they vary massively in power. Nothing suggests that headbutt was Continental at all.

Apart from the fact is was Serious , unlike his other Casual punches which are multi country, your whole argument depends on the factor that Saitama punches Vary.

Sasuke with his susanoo has Country level durability unlike Garou.

Again your whole argument depends on the factor that Saitama punches Vary, and you haven't provived any actual feats that they do. he's one shot most of his enemies because he hits that hard on an average. even the air pressure from his attack destroyed a mountain.

Speed rebuttals

What calcs? could u drop me a link or something? or just copy and paste the calculations

Right here

Those calc are pretty weird as they count counter in the distance FF moved, and i also found some cals myself:

No Caption Provided

Alright so in this pic Garou is 298 pixels tall. Garou is 177 cm tall. 177/298 = 0.593 centimeters for each pixel.

Now the real issue here is figuring out the distance between Lightspeed Flash and Garou. Unfortunately, Flash's entire body is not visible in the scan. However, his thigh length is 129 pixels, great. So now we just add 129 to his 459 pixel long body (measured from head to thigh) and we have a 588 pixel tall Lightspeed Flash. (the extra 129 was gotten from doubling the thigh length to get the rest of the leg)

So Lightspeed Flash, being 172 cm tall, has 0.292 cm per pixel. Now I gotta use these figures to get the distance. Since it's a 0.292 ratio for Flash and a 0.593 ratio for Garou, we get a ratio difference of 0.301 cm per pixel. The distance between Garou and Lightspeed Flash (using his Flash's knee as a lowball) is 218 by 120 pixels. Using the pythagorean theorem we get a pixel distance of 248.845 between the two combatants.

298/459=0.649 (ratio between Garou's height as it literally appears and Flash's)

248.845/0.649=398.836671803/100=3.98 meters distance, seems right when looking at the pic

3.98 meters over 1 microsecond aaaand we get 8.903*10^6mph or 0.01328c

Lightspeed Flash later shows an even faster move though, so it's likely much higher.

No Caption Provided

Now for the good parts, his combat speed. His arm is 287 px long, but since a punch generally only needs to travel the length of your forearm, I'll divide that by two.

287/2=143.5 px

143.5*0.301=43 cm long forearm (the average length of a full arm is 65 cm so this makes sense)

Now he hits Garou what appears to be 16 times. 16*43=688/100=6.88 meters

6.88 meters/1 microsecond=1.539*10^7 mph, or 0.02295c.

Sub-Relativistic Garou and Lightspeed Flash yay.

okay. And sure but Naruto and Sasuke only have reaction feats aswell

A reaction speed feat is much more useful than travel speed feats. If you want combat feats how about some quick scaling then.

Itachi reacted to Kirin which is confirmed by Zetsu to be lightning speed. Itachi thus clearly is a lightning timer right?

We can all agree SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke would blitz Itachi effortlessly right?

So they clearly move faster than lightning.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But Reaction speeds=/= combat speeds, and my team are sub relativistic so you're team moving faster than lightning doesn't mean anything

Okay, precog can't win you a battle though, or EMS would have beat hashirama, and Reactions speed feats are not combat speed feats

EMS Madara wasn't ludicrously faster than Hashirama and didn't fight him in CQC

were sub relativistic so you're not ludicrously faster, are you?

rebuttals to your counter on Saitama

Strength

My team would blitz Itachi who can react to lightning. Naruto and Sasuke crossed a country in base in the span of a conversation. Sasuke can hold his own and not have every single attack dodged by Naruto.

you didn't really provide any feats that they would blitz itachi, but we both know they would so fair enough

Durability

Yup

Rasenshruiken cuts you which means you need feats against cutting attack to suggest you can tank it, Sasuke uses a lightning amped sword so can I have some feats to suggest you can take it?

IF you prove Sasuke has Sub relativistic + combat speeds as my team as sub relativistic , then on the off chance it would tag us, then yes we could probably tank it was we have regen

he isn't, and even if he was(Which again he isn't), City > Mountain any day(anyways I've proved he's way above that above)

What? Mountain level >>> City level. A nuke can wipe out a city but do nothing to a mountain.

so many things wrong in this sentence, if u wanna debate this come @ me

Has amaterasu ever blinded someone before? Seasick never used it again kinshiki so its OOC he'll use it here, limbo being equal to madder doesn't prove much, lightfang was a senjutsu attack and therefore Naruto TSB rod could tank it, there no feats saying it would have killed him anyway so its fealess, true he can't hold his breathe forever, but he holds it long enough to punch the gas away like he has done to clouds and rain before, He grabs his soul from Madara like Naruto did to Nagato, and Saitama is WAY stronger, lifting 125m tones ( the weight of an average city)

Its black fire. How can you see through it? Sasuke couldn't use most of his abilites against Kinshiki since he was weakened. Madara is superior to Garou and Boros. If Naruto could no sell it why did he dodge? How will he know to punch away the spore or even hold his breath? We have seen Pain rip out souls instantly, Nagato just took so long because he needed to capture the Kyuubi. Sasuke and Madara will get in, use their superior speed and pull the soul out far faster than Nagato did.

Sasuke fought Kinshiki before he was weakened and never used it then, Madara are not > Garou and boros(you're still lowballing them ), Naruto dodged it cause he didn't know what it was, it has no feats. Saitama will know to punch away the spores because he can see them, onoki didn't know what the spores were and he survived just fine .Nagato has never been seen to rip out souls instantly, Sasuke has never used soul rip anyway(on the otsutsuki, madder etc etc), you've provided no combat speed feats apart from saying things like "Naruto would blitz itachi, who reacted to lightning ".

Rebuttal to your counters to my summary

  • Just like you've lowballed them to kingdom come

I've been realistic and waited for feats.

Not really, you tried to put mountain > city which it isn't , you're claiming That Saitamas punches Vary(which you've provided no proof they do since he's onset everyone he's met so far cause he hits that hard on an average

  • Both are pretty useful imo, for example, if i could dodge 1 bullet at the speed of sound, that doesn't mean i can fight someone throwing multiple speed of sound punches does it?

If I can dodge a bullet and then fight a regular human I'll dance around them with ease. You haven't given any combat speed feats near lightspeed so my team will dance around your team.

what I'm trying to say is, your team have light speed reactions(we'll Naruto does), but not combat speed feats apart from you saying things like "Naruto would blitz itachi who reacted to lightning" I've provided combat sped feats above. Anyway your team is slower than relativistic as guy was relativistic and managed to warp space, while the Naruto trio never came close to doing something like that. so Naruto team are slower than relativistic, while Boros and Satiama is > sub relativistic and Garou is sub relativistic

  • Okay they have a soul, They pull it back Like Naruto did due to being WAY stronger than him, even if RS cut us on a cellular level it doesn't bypass durability, Sasuke has never Teleported Anything inside of anyones brain xdddddd, Madara > Boros and Garou(just proved that) and

Sasuke and Madara have no reason to hold back like Nagato did (to capture Kurama) and can simply restrain them with

Nagato was edo tensie and I'm pretty sure he wasn't holding back (not like he had control over his body) and Pain used soul rip aswell against fodder and it wasn't instant:

No Caption Provided
  • Onoki had no feats and he resisted it, saitama can hold his breathe and punch it away, Garou could hold his breathe( well should be able to hold his breathe long enough for saitama to punch is away and that pollen was pretty visible in the anime.

Onoki resisting it IS a feat. Saitama won't realise whats happening until its too late. Garou won't realise either. They won't realise until they're knocked out.

you're not getting my point, ohnoki had no prior feats and resisted it, so the op trio will be fine

Counters against reasons why you win

Boros

How will we deal with Boros?

  • He lacks quantifiable speed feats

hes faster than Garou who I've proved is Sub relativistic

  • He lack any good durability feats

apart form tanking multi country punches from saitama though

  • His physicals aren't enough to get through our Susanoo and Kyuubi

Even though they only have country level durability and each hit from boros is multi country +

  • He lacks the skill to deal with our Precognition, Shadow/Wood Clones, Skill and any Limbo in CQC

meh, he doesn't need skill when he outclasses you in raw strength by a large margin

  • He lacks any cutting resistance feats to survive a Rasenshuriken

Madara and Naruto got pierced by swords as well, which means they don't have any cutting resistance feats either, which means this would kill them

  • His alien biology isn't a good enough argument as we see him breathing heavily after his fight with Saitama

fair enough, though he managed to survive in space so he obviously doesn't breathe oxygen

  • He can't BFR us with the kick as Naruto, Madara and Sasuke can fly

BFR isn't allowed anyway as stated by the OP but okay

  • He can be sealed by Magnet Release

Even though it has no feats restrained someone as strong as the OPM trio?

Garou

Much like Boros, Garou has his own niche. His skill.

However...

  • The only speed feat you've shown is a whopping Mach 40

It was sub relativistic

  • His durability is lacklustre

Apart from tanking multi country level punches from Saitama

  • His striking is just as meh to them both

even though he one-shots sasuke?

  • He (much like your other members) can't counter our clones or spores

Ohnoki(an old man) survived spores

  • He also can't survive a Rasenshuriken from naruto

He can as he has piercing resistance feats unlike Naruto and Madara

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he manages to block them with his hand which means he tanked a sword, unlike Naruto.....

No Caption Provided

  • Our superior Precognition (Garou's relies on the opponent being an amateur) will let us win along with our speed and strength

We stomp you in strength, superior precog? meh, Garous does not rely on the opponent being an amateur , he fought tank top master, watchdog man, bug god, light speed flash, atomic samurai etc etc

  • Magnet Release or soul rip

Magnet release is fearless, we pull our souls back

Saitama

Oh boy...

  • Same old on speed

Hes faster than garou which means he sub relativistic

  • Your cutting and piercing durability are literally non existent

just like Madara and Naruto, so Saitama throws a rock at them and they die

  • He won't use his planet busting punches in character and Precognition counter his strength

He's used that punch Agains EC, Garou and Boros so its not OOC, how does precog counter strength?

  • He will be wore down by spores and clones

Again, spores are featless and can be punched away and seen

  • His skill is none existent

so?

  • Soul rip boyo

we pull out souls back

Reasons why we win

  • Madara and Naruto has no cutting resistance feats as they have both been pierced by swords, which means 1 rock from Saitama kills them each
  • You havant proved you can handle our heat
  • Superior in strength, DC and Durability/regen
  • Sasuke sadly lacks durability feats and gets oneshot
  • You've lowballed The OPM trio a lot
  • None of your team can planet bust
  • You only really consider Saitama threat
  • Your whole argument pretty much depends on the fact that Saitama punches Vary

Final strategy

  1. Battle kicks off, Boros fights and one-shots Sasuke, Garou holds off Naruto and Saitama engages Madara , then Boros CSRC Madara, and they all gang up on Naruto
  2. Saitama throws a rock due to your team having no peircing/cutting Durability resistance feats
  3. Or Saitama one-shots Sasuke, Boros fights Naruto , Garou holds off Madara, then they all gang up on Naruto

Been a fun CaV @chaos239 ima open voting

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#87 Posted by Gear4God (3848 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with team Naruto (Chaos239)

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#88 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

@gear4god: You need to give a reason for it to count.

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#89 Posted by Gear4God (3848 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239:

While I think OPM team has better physicals, you argued for the hax team Naruto has, which I think gives them the win.

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#90 Posted by vsw (1464 posts) - - Show Bio
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#92 Posted by B_r023 (2877 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: @vsw: I am not actually gonna vote for anyone because there were a lot of arguments that just didn't sit well with me from both of you guys.

The argument that Soul steal has never been used on non-humans so it wouldn't work on Boros is like me saying that Saitama has never punched people with chakra so his strength wouldn't work on Naruto.

The other thing I disliked was that Saitama has no skill which sounded kinda iffy.

Other than lowballing each other, you guys did nice.

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#93 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

@b_r023 said:

@chaos239: @vsw: I am not actually gonna vote for anyone because there were a lot of arguments that just didn't sit well with me from both of you guys.

The argument that Soul steal has never been used on non-humans so it wouldn't work on Boros is like me saying that Saitama has never punched people with chakra so his strength wouldn't work on Naruto.

The other thing I disliked was that Saitama has no skill which sounded kinda iffy.

Other than lowballing each other, you guys did nice.

Garou dodges, holds his own and gets off several punches because Saitama has no skill, he literally calls Martial Arts a bunch of cool tricks.

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#94 Posted by B_r023 (2877 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:
@b_r023 said:

@chaos239: @vsw: I am not actually gonna vote for anyone because there were a lot of arguments that just didn't sit well with me from both of you guys.

The argument that Soul steal has never been used on non-humans so it wouldn't work on Boros is like me saying that Saitama has never punched people with chakra so his strength wouldn't work on Naruto.

The other thing I disliked was that Saitama has no skill which sounded kinda iffy.

Other than lowballing each other, you guys did nice.

Garou dodges, holds his own and gets off several punches because Saitama has no skill, he literally calls Martial Arts a bunch of cool tricks.

I have only read the manga and have yet to see Garou vs Saitama so I am gonna reserve judgment. You might be right but I am gonna wait until I actually read the fight. Sorry, cool Cav.

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#95 Posted by AlexTheBoss (12860 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Don't comic vine rules say if the way the world works isn't specified assume it works like real life? Souls don't exist in real life, so why should we just assume all fictional characters have souls? So it's not that Saitama doesn't have a soul, but until it's proven you can't just assume he does. He may or may not have one.

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#96 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Don't comic vine rules say if the way the world works isn't specified assume it works like real life? Souls don't exist in real life, so why should we just assume all fictional characters have souls? So it's not that Saitama doesn't have a soul, but until it's proven you can't just assume he does. He may or may not have one.

Saitama is just strong.

Life Energy also exists in OPM and verse equalisation comes first chances are.

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#97 Posted by Insertnewname (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: you can't compare soul to chi or chakra who are inventedby the author for his universe. It's kind of a different thing, because it has no interactiom with anything else and even in our world a lot of people believe in souls

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#98 Posted by AlexTheBoss (12860 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: What do you mean by life energy? And does a type of energy prove souls/an afterlife? Like I said I actually think it's likely OPM characters have souls, but I'm not sure if there is enough proof to say they definitely could get their soul stolen. Something like soul steal could be mentioned to break a tie, but if let's say team Saitama is winning solidly (not saying that's necessarily the case here) then soul steal shouldn't be enough to be a crux of an argument.

@insertnewname: I agree souls and chakra/chi are separate.

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#99 Posted by Chaos239 (4665 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: As in just that, Tatsumaki compares it to Ki and Chakra iirc

It proves that external energies exist and souls shouldn't be a stretch.

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#100 Posted by AlexTheBoss (12860 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: Ya I agree it isn't a stretch, but my point is there isn't enough info to say soul steal gg. Bringing it up as a posssbility is fine though.