CaV: Naruto(Darthjhawk) Vs Ichigo(HitTheAssasin)

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HitTheAssasin

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Naruto Uzumaki vs Ichigo Kurosaki:

Naruto, represented by @darthjhawk
Naruto, represented by @darthjhawk

No Caption Provided
Ichigo, represented by myself, @hittheassasin
Ichigo, represented by myself, @hittheassasin

Yes, folks, you read that right. One of the greatest matchups in manga history, the eternal battle between the two protagonists of Naruto and Bleach, Naruto Uzumaki and Ichigo Kurosaki respectively, will be debated once again in a CaV between the renowned @darthjhawk and myself, whom people may very well be surprised to see representing Bleach. Nevertheless, I'm going to ask any and all potential voters to try to look at this CaV with as little bias as possible and judge solely based on who's argument was more convincing, rather than whom you think would win the battle. I ask you to throw away all your preconceived notions and look purely at the debate, the feats and the arguments presented by me and my opponent. When voting, try to be as respectful, both to us and to the fellow voters, just as me and my opponent will be to each other in this debate. Thank you very much.

Rules and Stipulations

  • EOS Teen Naruto(No The Last or Hokage feats)
  • Composite Ichigo
  • Morals on and in-character, but fully serious and going for the kill
  • Standard equipment
  • Win by death or incapitation(no BFR)
  • Starting distance: 10 meters
  • Soul Crush is disabled!

Location: Indestructible Mountain Range

No Caption Provided

Without any further wait, let's get this show on the road! I hope you're happy with the conditions, pictures and the layout of the thread, @darthjhawk?

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darthjhawk

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#2 darthjhawk  Moderator

@hittheassasin: Looking good man, really good. How do you want to do posting order?

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Thatoneguy887

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T4V

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HitTheAssasin

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@darthjhawk: To be honest, I don't particularly care in which order we do this. Do you have any preferences?

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darthjhawk

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#5 darthjhawk  Moderator

@hittheassasin: Hmm I guess I can open us up. Unless you want try posting around the same time. By that I mean we both write our openers, and when we're both ready we post.

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ovy7

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T4V and after every post, please.

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LeoTheGreatest

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Let's see how this one goes, T4V.

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ovy7

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Question: Composite Ichigo includes only the canon material (manga + novels) or also the movies and anime filler?

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HitTheAssasin

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@ovy7: For now, I was thinking only Canon feats, but he gets all the abilities and feats from all of his different forms.

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ourmanuel

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#10  Edited By ourmanuel

Please tag for every single thing including votes.

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HitTheAssasin

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darthjhawk

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#12 darthjhawk  Moderator
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Gaoron

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T4v

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Streak619

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Tag after every post gents

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WorldofRuin6

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T4V please.

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vsw

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TAEP

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the_wspanialy

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#17  Edited By the_wspanialy  Online

Sweet. T4V please.

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defiant_will

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deactivated-5c830d4e319e6

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Uhhhh nice !

Tag after every post.

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FaradaySloth

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I still think Naruto beats Composite Ichigo, however TAEP and T4V

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DrPepperMan

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T4V

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Hope_w

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Composite Ichigo must have a hax move up his sleeve. Otherwise this is a mismatch even I cannot fathomably pull myself out of.

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Thenewguysnm1

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@hope_w said:

Composite Ichigo must have a hax move up his sleeve. Otherwise this is a mismatch even I cannot fathomably pull myself out of.

We both know you would fine a way

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darthjhawk

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#24 darthjhawk  Moderator

@hittheassasin: Alright my friend, lets do this.

Naruto Uzumaki: Hero of The Hidden Leaf

No Caption Provided

Character Rundown: The Hero

Loading Video...
NarutoThe Rundown
Real NameNaruto Uzumaki
Created ByMasashi Kishimoto
First AppearanceNaruto Chapter 1
Latest AppearanceBoruto: Naruto Next Generations
Powers & Abilities
  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics
  • Diverse Array of Jutsu
  • Master Sage
  • Expert Armed & Unarmed Combatant
Current Status
  • Alive, current Hokage of the Hidden Leaf Village
  • Coordinating Efforts with Sasuke & Gokage about the Otsutsuki Clan

Important Terms & Legend: What you need to know

This is a section that I thought to include since there are likely going to be a lot of terms thrown around by Hit and I that could get confusing. I would like to create and go over a brief shortlist of terms that will be important to my posts and the debate overall.

Chakra: The main power source of the series. A mixture of physical and spiritual energy. It is the basis for almost every technique. Ninjas can mold their chakra to form a variety of powers that includes walking on water, walking up trees and buildings, creating illusions, and forming jutsu.

Jutsu: Essentially the main umbrella that the series' abilities fall under. There are three further categories:

  • Ninjutsu: Ninjutsu involves molding chakra into physical forms. Ninjutsu can be used for medical purposes, shape transformation, and nature transformation. These techniques often involve the use of hand seals.

  • Genjutsu: Unlike ninjutsu, genjutsu attacks the victim's mind rather than body. These manipulate the flow of chakra within a person's brain causing illusions to occur. Genjutsu is capable of being stopped by an outside force.

  • Taijutsu: Taijutsu does not require chakra, but chakra can be used to enhance physical power (the gates). It involves any techniques that focus on martial arts or natural human abilities.

Natural Energy: An energy that can be collected from the atmosphere and terrain. If one can collect the natural energy from around them and combine and balance it with the spiritual and physical energy that makes up their chakra, they can become sages, allowing them to use senjutsu and enter Sage Mode.

  • Sage Mode: An empowered state that can be entered by blending natural energy with one's chakra, creating senjutsu chakra. Sage Mode allows users to tap into the natural force of the world, opening up new techniques to them and allowing them to power up existing ones with the new senjutsu chakra.
  • Senjutsu is a specialized field of techniques that allows the user to sense and then gather natural energy. Senjutsu practitioners learn to draw the energy of nature inside of them, blending it with their own chakra.

Tailed Beast/Jinchūriki: Humans that have tailed beasts sealed within them. They exhibit extraordinary powers due to the immense chakra reserves they possess. (Naruto himself is an example)

Nine-Tails Chakra Mode: A unique form of transformation that is an incomplete version of Tailed Beast Mode that is privy to Naruto alone.

Tailed Beast Mode: By either subjugating their tailed beast or learning to work in unison with it, a jinchūriki can become a full-scale replica of the beast with complete access to its natural strength and abilities. If they choose, the jinchūriki can pass control of this form to the beast itself.

Rise of a Ninja: Taking a Different Perspective

So going into this debate, something that struck at me was an idea to look at Naruto from a perspective that does not solely rely on feats. Instead I wanted to try and analyze him from an angle that looks at three main factors. training, combat prowess, and overall portrayal.

While I wouldn't argue Naruto being the most skilled character in his verse, one thing he has on nearly everyone, save for a select few like Rock Lee is an immense desire to train and consistently better himself. Along with that came a clever ingenuity that developed and has been reflected from the beginning of the series, and all the way into its' endgame:

  • Scan 1: While performing the Transformation Jutsu, Iruka notes how Naruto invented a new version of it. (Chapter 1)
  • Scan 2: Kakashi noting Naruto's ingenuity with his main techniques. "Ever since he was a kid..." (Chapter 686)

The duality set in these instances display a few key things that I would like to note. One, there is a clear sign of growth within Naruto, and not just physically. Taking what are extremely basic jutsu and turning them into abilities that can catch even Kaguya off balance is something that should be noted. Especially taking into account that it shows a certain aspect of versatility that someone like Ichigo lacks. Versatility is not just about how many different abilities you have, but rather how you can use and apply them to different situations and battles, against a wide array of opponents.

That segues straight into Naruto's battle intelligence/combat prowess. While Ichigo is indeed powerful, in my opinion that is all he really has going for him. Power. I would like to take an honest look at how Ichigo defeated his major enemies throughout the series:

  • Hollows
  • Renji, Byakuya, and Kenpachi
  • Grimmjow & Ulquirorra
  • Aizen
  • Ginjo
  • Yhwach

Which one of these opponents was defeated or at least taken off balance through Ichigo's overall resourcefulness? To be honest the only major battle I can think of where combat prowess not involving just overpowering the opponent was Yhwach. And even then it was more through Aizen than Ichigo himself. Now when we compare some of Naruto's major battles:

Zabuza: Creates the plan to force Zabuza to release Kakashi from the Water Prison Jutsu

Chapter 15:
Chapter 15: "Sharingan Resurrected"

Neji: Fools Neji Twice with his shadow clones combining that with his overall power to eventually defeat him

Chapter 100:
Chapter 100: "Prepared to Die"

Kakuzu: Uses Shadow Clones to gain experience on Kakuzu's fighting style. Goes on to use that knowledge to form a plan to defeat him.

Chapter 339:
Chapter 339: "Rasenshuriken!"

And you have already seen a showing from the battle with Kaguya. Of course there are many more showings. But I think from this we have an overall idea of what Naruto is like compared to Ichigo. At least on paper. We have a ninja who has spent the vast majority of his life training. This has developed a knack for quick thinking and a means to use his abilities with varying degrees of utility.

In terms of Naruto and Ichigo, I think if we were to assume that a ninja and soul reaper fought on totally equal and objective terms; the ninja would come out on top. A ninja and especially this specific ninja has a plethora of abilities and skillsets that the soul reaper does not have. And despite the training Ichigo has done, he has not done much to innovate his fighting style, becoming rather predictable. So now that I have that established, at least from my side, what I need to do now is show how the aforementioned factor plus Naruto's other x-factors will be enough to defeat Ichigo in battle.

Rise of a Ninja II: Naruto vs Ichigo's X-Factors

Naruto vs Ichigo's Speed:

So I have an idea of a few feats you will bring up up to and possibly including deflecting Byakuya's Sebonzakura, timing Gin's Bankai, Candice's lightning and Yhwach/Ichibei scaling. While those are impressive I still see Naruto as the faster of the two. To give an idea of the speed comparison I will start by talking about a few of Naruto's speed and some of the scaling that goes along with it:

Speed:

So back in the Pain Invasion arc, Naruto has a really solid feat(s) of being able to throw attacks and move in the span of seconds, with attacks like his Rasenshuriken spanning what I believe is a mountain range effectively in that time:

Chapter 442: "The Last Gamble"

It doesn't stop there as Naruto could also pretty easily out-speed the Raikage someone who is capable of reaching lightning speed and even faster than lightning, being able compete with Minato in speed(Minato was faster due to FTG), yet Naruto was able to do it with pure speed with his KCM cloak:

Chapter 544: "Two Suns"

Furthermore, bringing things back to Sage Mode, Naruto states that the sensory abilities and increased reaction time make him even faster than that previous KCM cloak Naruto being able to attack and time his attacks at the last possible second as seen agaisnt the Third Raikage here someone who went up agaisnt the Eight Tailed Beast, Gyuki:

Chapter 555: "Contradiction"

Naruto also has some pretty good speed feats in his final mode from Shippuden with his SO6P mode. Here he scales well to Juubi Madara and Eight Gates Guy who with his final attack, was able to bend space and yet Madara could perceive and somewhat react to it (not necessarily in moving his body to block, but at the very least noting the attack and the speed of it bending space):

Chapter 672:
Chapter 672: "Night Guy"

Yet Naruto was able to fight and keep pace with a Madara who had received a massive amp in power by absorbing the God Tree. Still it gets even better. This being where he (Naruto) is able to react and fight with Kaguya at similar speeds who has at least Relativistic reaction and combat speeds if not even more so by scaling from Madara, the character she absorbed to come into being.

  • Scan 1: Naruto matches Kaguya in combat speed and even matches her chakra punches with his own. (Chapter 680).
  • Scan 2: Reacts to and blocks Kaguya's attempted bullrush/blitz. (Chapter 680).
  • Scan 3: Blitzes Kaguya and tears her arm off, something Sasuke struggled to do even with Amenotekijara (his teleport-like ability) (Chapter 687)
  • Scan 4: Kaguya compliments Naruto's speed, a damn good compliment imo. (Chapter 683).

So as we can see Naruto is damn fast and this isn't even all of his feats. By the time he has reached EOS I would definitely put Naruto at a solid baseline of relativistic in speed or at the very least many, many times faster than lightning. Taking Ichigo into account, the series arguably really only reached faster than lightning by the end of its run. While I'll refrain from saying anything as bold as Naruto blitzing or "statue-forcing" Ichigo, I will say I believe he has a solid edge on him in speed.

If his speed alone isn't enough I'll also bring up the sensory capabilities offered by his Sage Mode and Senjutsu abilities.

Sensory Capabilities:

So Naruto's Sage and KC Modes give him advanced sensory and precognition abilities.

  • Scan 1: Naruto's KCM allows him to sense negative emotions and the presence of the source. (Chapter 505).
  • Scan 2: SO6P mode's precog allows him to sense and dodge Juudara's invisible Limbo clone. (Chapter 673).
  • Scan 3: Confirmation that Naruto can sense the clones from Madara. (Chapter 674).
  • Scan 4: As I mentioned before SM gives him heightened senses and reaction times. (Chapter 555)
  • Scan 5: With Sage Mode, Naruto is able to sense and perceive all of the battles in the war and who is involved where. (Chapter 535)

What's special about those clones is that in the scan they are first mentioned, that being scan 2, naruto didn't actually know the clone was there physically so to speak, yet his senses still allowed him to dodge not unlike an automatic spider-sense. This is compounded by when Naruto goes H2H and eventually defeats or at least staves off the same Limbo Clones:

Chapter 676: The Infinite Dream
Chapter 676: The Infinite Dream

So not only do I think that Naruto has the speed to keep up with and match Ichigo, but I think his sensory capabilities give him an extra edge that will aid him and allow hime to gain an edge over him in this fight. He'll be hard pressed to tag him (not saying he won't hit him at all) and if he does he should be able to take her blows and keep going and even compete in the physical area. Speaking of those areas I'll continue with those now.

Naruto vs Ichigo's Piercing Output:

Of course, with Ichigo being a Soul Reaper and using a sword his main output will be through it. And we both know that the narutoverse suffers from a lack of piercing resistance, at least in their base forms. Regardless Naruto does have some solid showings of resisting piercing attacks. For example a typical feat used to start this off is him being capable of outright no selling several sword attacks from White Zetsu disguised as alliance ninja:

Chapter 558:
Chapter 558: "Kabuto's Trump Card"

Not only that, but in tandem with further boosts from his Tailed Beast Mode, Naruto is capable of tanking and resisting bladed attacks from character I would say are at least comparable to Ichigo in power:

  • Scan 1: Naruto's Chakra arms are capable of easily catching and stopping the blades from Madara's Susanoo. (Chapter 608)
  • Scan 2: Naruto tanks and shakes off a full powered Chidori from Rinnegan Sasuke. (Chapter 695)
  • Scan 3: In his full Tailed Beast Form Naruto matches strikes with the blades of Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo. (Chapter 675)
  • Scan 4: Naruto's Tailed Beast Avatar takes a blow from an Tailed Beast Enhanced Sasuke with even the resulting collision destroying multiple mountains. (Chapter 677)

The last few are particularly impressive considering that while in his Perfect Susanoo state, Sasuke could pretty casually slice through massive meteors that were dwarfing the surrounding mountains and countryside even after being sliced apart:

Chapter 676:
Chapter 676: "Infinite Dream"

So again at the moment while I won't go so far as to say that Naruto can just up and no sell everything Ichigo can dish out, I don't think Ichigo will be capable of putting him down before Naruto can, despite being able to potentially exploit Naruto's lesser resistances. As far as debating against Ichigo's abilities though I will stop here and give you a chance to make your case before I continue with my own. Regardless I think I have given a good gauge of where Naruto stands, or at least my beliefs on where he stands.

Rise of a Ninja III: Naruto vs Ichigo

Why I Believe Naruto Wins:

So this section is meant to lay out an opening strategy and argument for why and how I believe Naruto takes a majority over Ichigo. Bringing this post full circle from the first section, it comes down to two main factors. The first being Naruto's versatility and combat prowess/resourcefulness being superior to Ichigo. Ichigo is a very straightforward, brute force type of fighter having really only two named techniques (three counting Mugetsu) and the rest being just auto attack for the win, I don't think he has anything Naruto hasn't seen before. In fact I would argue that Naruto has already faced and "beaten" per se a superior version of Ichigo in the form of Sasuke, who while maybe not as physically powerful as Ichigo, is just as faster if not faster, has a sword focused fighting style, along with a hell of a lot more to offer in terms of an arsenal. In regards to Ichigo, I don't see him dealing with everything Naruto has to offer, and will eventually lose the battle, no matter how good it may be.

How I Believe Naruto Wins:

So I realize I have not laid out feats and what not in a typical fashion, in fact I'll get more into every single offensive feat and jutsu in my next post. Trying something different, instead I offer in this post more of a why I believe Naruto wins and how Ichigo's main abilities will not net him a victory. If you do notice however I have laid out the beginnings of a stratagem(s) that I believe will lead to a ninja victory:

1.Test Ichigo & discern his fighting style:

We have seen Naruto start fights opening with his shadow clones. I don't intend to spam things like 1000 shadow clones GG, however I do feel a solid 3-5 are a good match to get an idea of what Naruto is working with against Ichigo. And given how well the clones have come along by the EOS i.e fighting Madara's Limbo clones, even that won't be easy for Ichigo to deal with. Especially if they go into Tailed Beast Mode

2.A Full-On Assault:

This is where more of Naruto's offensive ninjutsu/senjutsu will come into play. To give you and our readers what we are working with:

I'll be going over Naruto's most arguable potent jutsu outside of the Tailed Beast Bomb, The Rasenshuriken. One of its best feats are as seen here when they destroy Madara's huge country level meteors:

Chapter 676: "An Infinite Dream"

His Rasenshurikens have also greatly injured one of the strongest, if not strongest character in the series thus far in Kaguya:

Chapter 688:"...Of the Sharingan!"

A devastating ninjutsu that combines all the powers of the Tailed Beasts with the Rasenshuriken. The technique creates nine Rasenshuriken, each infused with the special chakra properties of a specific tailed beast. After throwing all of them, it causes many huge explosions devastating the enemy upon impact. The initial form of the Rasenshuriken already attacks on a cellular level, adding in the individual chakra variants of the Tailed Beasts inly increases the destructive potential.

The bolded part brings me to my next point, is that along with their destructive power, Naruto's Rasenshuriken also pierces at a cellular level, making even more deadly:

No Caption Provided

Then along with that, the Rasenshuriken can expand its radius and AOE easily as well as seen in above scans and videos. That brings me to my next argument of Naruto's clones that he also pretty much spams and uses to great effect:

I won't post every single feat with Naruto's shadow clones as there are honestly too many for me, but he uses them in a deceptive way and they can all replicate his physical and jutsu feats aside from drawn out durability.

Chapter 689: I love you

And even Kaguya was fooled more than once by Naruto's shadow clones, despite possessing the Byakugan and the Rinne Sharingan, visual prowess that allow the user to see through nearly any illusion or jutsu:

Chapter 684: We Must Kill Him

So not only will there be multiples of Naruto, who Ichigo will have a hard time discerning the difference, but he has incredibly potent attacks that will surely bring great harm if not even kill him.

Rise of a Ninja IV: Wrapping Up & Initial Thoughts

As I've said this has gone on long enough. I'll sum up my main points here:

  • Naruto is more than fast enough to keep up with Ichigo, and I even think with the added bonus of his sensory abilities will be even faster in combat and reactions.
  • In terms of Ichigo's main offensive output, Naruto should have what it takes to withstand it long enough to outlast him and put him down first.
  • The versatility and overall combat skill is a definite edge in Naruto's favor. I do not believe Ichigo will be able to overcome this gap alone and through only power.

I think that is enough to get us started with this debate. I'll cover more offensive things in my next post I hope this change is easy enough to follow, I know it can be a bit unorthodox especially with manga/anime debates. Regardless, I look forward to how this will go and I hope we have fun. Good luck to us both!

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darthjhawk

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#25  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator
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darthjhawk

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#26 darthjhawk  Moderator
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vsw

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darthjhawk

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#28  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator
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darthjhawk

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#29 darthjhawk  Moderator

@ourmanuel: You wanted to know if I think I can win. Figured I'd keep you updated

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ourmanuel

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ovy7

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Wow, that was a really good intro post! Keep it going guys, I feel like this CaV is gonna be a really good one.

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FaradaySloth

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#32  Edited By FaradaySloth

DJH is one of the greats imo, so as always fantastic post.

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deactivated-5c60dc252a2af

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@darthjhawk: Pretty freaking sweet. Tag for every post.

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HitTheAssasin

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An excellent opener, as expected. Look forward to mine as well, it's coming up rather soon.

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Thenewguysnm1

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Great post keep this up and you might earn a rematch with the king someday(me)

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HitTheAssasin

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#36  Edited By HitTheAssasin

Opener: The Strongest Shinigami, Ichigo!

No Caption Provided

Right off of the bat, there are a few things I'd like to address, regarding both this post and the debate as a whole. The first thing would be that I won't be including a Bio in this post because everyone knows who Ichigo is and because I want to focus solo on the debate and providing the best possible analysis of his capabilities for both my opponent and the potential voters reading this. The second thing is that I want to implore once more that I'd like you to enter into this with an open mind and throw aside the opinions you've got on the respective characters in favour of looking only at the actual feats and arguments presented right here, in this very debate. Without any further wait, let's get right into Ichigo's stats.

Strongest Shinigami's Tensa Zangetsu VS Naruto's Endurance

To begin with, I'll be starting by analysing Ichigo's physical strength in conjunction with his Zanpaktou and how it stacks up compared to Naruto's own strength as well as his durability and endurance, specifically towards piercing attacks. There will also be some scaling, which I'll do my best to justify in a concise and clear fashion. To start things off, let's address the matter of Ichigo's primary weapon, his Zanpaktou, Zangetsu. As you know, the cutting power of a Zanpaktou comes from the Reiatsu that is focused into it's blade when attacking. The Reaitsu focused into Zangetsu is so potent, that just the excess left over after creating the blade dried up an entire sea to cool down the actual swords:

Bleach Chapter 542: The Blade Is Me

In other words, it's an incredible amount of Reiatsu of incredible potency, stemming from a combination of Ichigo's Shinigami, Quincy and Hollow powers. Now, it's time to see just what kind of cutting power this immense amount of energy can produce in practice and why it's likely too much for most versions of Naruto to handle directly.

To start it off, in terms of pure physical strength I'm confident an EOS, composite Ichigo has an undeniable, albeit not massive advantage over Naruto in this regard(but not negligible either), which will play a vital role in determining why I think Ichigo will win this fight. For some feats to back up this claim, even when looking at their versions considerably earlier on in their respective series, Ichigo already has a noticeable advantage, which is backed up by his incredible feats back during the Soul Society Arc, while using only his Shikai:

Bleach Chapter 150: Countdown To The End 0 and Chapter 151: Deathberry Returns

This is a rather long set of scans and they contain to separate feats, all of which happen in a matter of a few instances. First of all, in the scans 1 through 6 you can see Ichigo saving Rukia from her execution at the hands of the Sokyoko, which has the destructive power of a million Zanpaktou's, by casually blocking it's attack with one hand. Then, after that, he breaks the stand Rukia is tied to in one blow and creates a huge shockwave which pierces through Sokyoko Hill. While the second feat speaks for itself(creating a hundred+ meter sized shockwave with one blow), the first one may need a bit of explaining. Casually blocking something with the destructive power of a million Zanpaktou's is incredibly impressive, since regular Zanpaktou's are far superior to normal swords and even relatively weak ones can cut in half small building sized hollows and pulverise stone walls.

Another hugely impressive feat from an Ichigo quite early on in the game is when a heavily injured, beat up and exhausted Hollow Mask Ichigo blocks, deflects and destroys Grimmjow's Desgarron, his strongest technique consisting of 5 blades of energy bigger than skyscrapers launched at him at incredible speeds(likely at the very least high supersonic to low hypersonic, when one considers the speed of these characters):

Bleach Chapter 285: Eating Meat, Alone

When one considers the site and the velocity these blades where moving at, as well a the condition Ichigo was in at the time, this honestly isn't a feat I see any version of Naruto prior to KCM doing(excluding KN, since he can't control that or access it at will), not even close.

Now that we've past the build-up feats performed by far weaker versions of Ichigo, let's move onto the current feats that I'll be using not only to show Ichigo's superiority towards earlier parts of the story, but even towards EOS Naruto. The first feat I'll be using to establish that superiority is one not actually performed by Ichigo himself, but rather by a restrained Shikai Kenpachi, the infamous meteor feat. Before we move onto the actual feat, I want to make sure people understand why scaling a Composite Ichigo to Kenny is fine. Even ignoring Ichigo's far superior portrayal, actual feats support his considerable superiority to Kenpachi as well, such as swapping blows with a serious Yhwach even while only in Shikai(speak, while not even nearly at full power), with the latter even acknowledging Ichigo's power in Shikai was a grave threat to him:

Bleach Chapter 677: Horn Of Salvation 2

Now, you might still be thinking, why does this afford him superiority to Kenpachi, exactly? Well, Shikai Kenpachi himself, even after having taken off his eyepatch(which further increases his power), was matched by 2nd Form Gerard, someone who was noted to have only reached Yhwach's general level of Reiatsu(which determines power and stats), after going through 2 more major power ups after fighting Kenny:

Bleach Chapter 667, Chapter 670, Chapter 672 and Chapter 674
  • Scan 1 to 3: 2nd Form Gerard matches Shikai Kenpachi with his blows
  • Scan 4: Gerard transforms into his 3rd Form
  • Scan 5: Gerard transforms into his 4th Form
  • Scan 6: 4th Form Gerard is confirmed to be on Yhwach's general level in terms of raw power

Now that we've got that piece of work out of the way, let's get to the actual feat performed by Kenny already:

Bleach Chapter 576: The Killers High 2 and Chapter 577: Sword

This feat performed by a characters considerably weaker than Ichigo physically in Kenpachi is so impressive because of both the size and speed of the meteor, as well as the way the feat was performed. To elaborate upon these things, the 1st Scan clearly shows the Meteor is comparable in size to the barrier around the Seireitei, which surrounds the entirety of the Seireitei, a structure that has multiple statements stating it takes days to travel through the Seireitei as well as from one gate to the next(which is a direct path around the structure):

Bleach Chapter 76: Boarrider Comin'
Bleach Chapter 76: Boarrider Comin'

“Uncle gave us cloth to hide our faces, so we wore that and walked through Rukongai for several days……we were then concealed inside a wooden box and loaded onto a cart before a huge gate.”

"To start with, we thought we should meet Tetsu san, we asked uncle about the location of the 7th division. In order to not be discovered by people, we only traveled at night time, we passed through mountainous terrain and forests……on the night of the third day, in the middle of the forest we detected the scent of a fellow wolf……!”

-We Do Knot Always Love You(Official Light Novel)

Now, even if you want to deny both of these statements, perhaps due to the partial scans the Manga gives us, I don't think anyone would object to it being at the very least large city sized, especially considering Toshiro's statement about Kira having to be 4 Ri(about 12 kilometres according to the official translation) away to be completely safe from the battle he and Gin were about to have and yet not being worried about the annihilation of Sereitei or any of the other divisions or their members:

Bleach Chapter 132: Creeping Limit

In other words, this statement also heavily implies the Seireitei is considerably more than 24 kilometres in length, which'd be large city sized(considering it's set up in a circle). Considering this is an incredible lowball and it's in all likely hood several times that, I think it's safe to conclude this feat by saying that Kenpachi easily pulverised and halted an incredibly large majority of the kinetic energy of a meteor that was several kilometers long and wide and moving at hypersonic speeds(it likely came from the atmosphere and it was burning from friction), which adds an immense amount of energy.

Now, this is not Ichigo's only feat that operates around this level. Even while in his far weaker Full Hollow state, he has the incredible showing of squashing Lanza Del Relampago with his bare hands, which doubles both as a strength feat(for overpowering the huge amounts of energy exploding in his hand) and a durability feat(tanking the huge amounts of energy exploding in his palm):

Bleach Chapter 351: The Lust 5

In the 1st Scan, one can see that the raw power of a Lanza and it's explosion is comparable in size to the totality of Las Noches, a structure so vast that even when walking non-stop at it from a distance until they dropped, Ichigo and company didn't appear to get any closer, so vast one can't see the outer walls from the middle, so vast it contains 10 different palaces for 10 different Espada's that seemingly aren't even within seeing distance of one another. And Ichigo used just his raw strength, not even in conjunction with the incredible Reiatsu stored within his sword, to overpower an energy of that magnitude and reduce it to nothing. If he uses all of that mind-blowing strength in conjunction with the Reiatsu inside of Tensa Zangetsu, imagine the results!

To get to the point about how this compares to Naruto's durability to piercing attacks, I'll be blunt(heh). The only version of Naruto that can and has consistently tanked piercing attacks comparable to the full output of a Composite Ichigo is the Full Bijuu Mode one, having tanked slashes from Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o. What does this mean, exactly? Well, dear reader, it means that Naruto is quite vulnerable to Ichigo's physical blows outside of that form and really can't afford to take his hits. The undeniable fact that Naruto must enter Bijuu Mode to be able to tank strikes from Tensa Zangetsu is a huge advantage for Ichigo, since said Bijuu Mode has several weaknesses, including a huge area of target for Ichigo's strikes, huge chakra consumption and lack of comparable movement("travel") speed to dodge his attacks, which can be exploited quite well by the nimble Ichigo(more on that in the Strategy section).

Strongest Shinigami's Flash Step VS Naruto's Speed

In this section of my opener, I'll be adressing Ichigo's speed, both in terms of sheer movement/travelling and specifically in combat. Once again, scaling will be prominent here, but I'll do my best to make clear why I think it's logical and should be accepted. To start things off with one of Ichigo's most notorious feats of combat speed that occurred all the way back in the Soul Society, which you yourself mentioned in your opener, where he deflects all of Byakuya Kuchiki's Senbonzakura petals, which were later stated to numbest run the hundreds of millions, coming at him from all sides instantly:

Bleach Chapter 163: The Speed Phantom 2

Managing to deflect all of them before even a single petal of this triple speed Senbonzakura, which was matching Shikai Ichigo's sub-sonic speed before it's 3 fold boost, could move the less-than-a-meter of distance to reach Ichigo(see scan 1, panel 6 for reference of the distance), is a feat I wouldn't rank any less than high double digit mach, since Ichigo would have had to perform thousands of slashes to do this, because all of the petals of Senbonzakura together have enough volume to create exactly a thousand swords, as was revealed later on:

Bleach Chapter 164: That Who Change The World

Without doing a calc to put an exact number on it, performing several thousand slashes faster than an Byakuya's at least sub-sonic petals could move a meter, I can tell you that it's a feat that ranks no lower than high double digit machs, probably even in the triple digits, coming reasonably close to lightning timing and this is just SS Arc Ichigo. By comparison, Naruto only reaches the realm of concrete lightning timing as of the War Arc(possibly the Pain Arc). Also note that this feat establishes that Ichigo's combat speed > his movement speed, since the petals were able to keep up with him and tag him while he was travelling, yet he was able to deflect all of them before they could move a meter using his combat speed.

Ichigo's next truly impressive speed feat is later, in the Fake Karakura Town Arc, when he blocks and dodges Gin Ichimaru's Bankai extending at him multiple times, the same Bankai that was stated to expand at Mach 500 by Gin himself:

Bleach Chapter 404: Deicide 6 and Bleach Chapter 400: Deicide 2

Now, even if you want to deny Gin's statement about the speed of his Bankai due to him saying he lied about it to Aizen, do note that he only says he lied to Aizen about it and that nothing suggests that he was lying to Ichigo, whom he fought while Aizen was several hundred meters away and engaging in an intense fight with Isshin, Ichigo's father. Even disregarding Gin's statement, his Bankai was still fast enough to split Fake Karakura Town in half for many kilometres at such speeds that all of the cut buildings fell at what was visually almost exactly the same time, despite the distance between them:

Bleach Chapter 399: Deicide

In other words, even if you choose to arbitrarily deny Gin's statement, which'd be consistent with SS Arc Bankai Ichigo casually performing a feat at around Mach 100 himself, it's still a great showing of reaction and combat speed.

Now, without further wait, let's get into Ichigo's best feat of pure combat speed, which'd be swapping blows with, blocking and evading multiple physical attacks from post-Soul King absorption Yhwach, even after he started seeing into the future with The Almighty and while Ichigo wasn't using his Bankai, which greatly increases his combat speed:

Bleach Chapter 677: Horn of Salvation 2

Of course, as you can guess, this feat is one of scaling that is only this impressive because of a feat Yhwach has earlier on in the series, even prior to absorbing the Soul King and Mimihagi(which boosted his abilities massively), in the form of easily reacting to Mimihagi's bullrush at point-blank and catching him, the same one who previously crossed the distance from the Seireitei to the Soul King's Palace in seconds:

Bleach Chapter 617: Return of the God and Chapter 620: Where Do You Stand

In case you aren't aware, the distance between the Seireitei and the Soul King's Palace is absolutely ginormous to the point that one of the Royal Guards, who know the distance, reckoned it would take a Captain Class Shinigami a week to travel the distance using normal Flash Steps, which already have multiple supersonic feats when used by sub-Captain level individuals:

Bleach Chapter 555: The Hero
Bleach Chapter 555: The Hero

It's not like this is one of those unsubstantiated statements either, since even post-RG training Shikai Ichigo going at his maximum travel speed(that he could maintain for 12 hours+, that is) took over 7 hours to get there, with him even stating that it would probably take him about 12 hours to do it if a normal Shunpo user would take a week. Just to throw out an exact number for the sake of defining this feat, assuming a regular Shunpo is only Mach 1(huge lowball, sub-Captain class individuals have supersonic feats with it) and that Mimihagi took 5 seconds(reasonable, it was about 3 pages or so and clearly a very short timeframe), that comes out at a whooping Mach 121,000, which is high-end relativistic and more than a hundred times faster than lightning. Keep in mind that a not-full-speed Ichigo was combating something faster than that and dodging its attacks, which is more than enough to suggest he can evenly exchange blows with Naruto, sensory "pre-cog" or not.

Now that we've got that out of the way, let's get to the second relevant part of the speed debate that my opponent seems to have missed, travel/movement speed. Now, some of you might be thinking, why is this useful, it's not something that can be applied while exchanging blows, right? While that's definitely true, travel speed still has some very useful combatative application, such as:

  • Being used for dodging large explosive attacks, or projectile ones
  • Being used to gain a mobility advantage and run metaphorical circles around ones opponents while launching attacks at them

With that being said, I'm of the opinion Ichigo has a definitive advantage over Naruto when it comes to this, since Naruto basically lacks comparably impressive and applicative travel speed feats, only having something like that in the range of Mach 300, while Ichigo has it to a higher extent than that. The feat I'm going to use is one of Ichibei's(someone who was matched by pre-Soul King and Mimihagi absorption Yhwach, while Ichigo contended with post-absorption Yhwach in speed while not using his Bankai, which is speed based), who scales to Ichigo for the reasons just mentioned:

Bleach Chapter 605: Don't Call My Name

And you can see in the scans above, Ichibei uses his Piercing Palm to send Yhwach flying back 1000 Ri instantly, all the while casually keeping up with him and holding a conversation. How much is 1000 Ri, you ask? Well, it depends on what Ri's are used. While the above translation states it equates to 300 miles, that's when using Chinese Ri, while when using Japanese Ri, it comes out at 2,400 miles. While the official translation states it's 300 miles, Kubo is Japanese, lives in Japan and has used Japanese Ri in the past for his Bleach measurements, so, just to be safe, I'll give approximate numbers for both. Using, arbitrarily, one second as a timeframe(not saying this is fact, just as auto give a basic idea), we get approximately Mach 1,400 and Mach 11,400 respectively, both of which I'd consider well beyond Naruto's own travel speed/jumping/flying/moving speed.

Now to wrap it up and give a comparison to Naruto's own speed, I think that when it comes to sheer combat speed, the disparity between the two of them is practically non-existent, with both operating in the relativistic ranges with both feats and scaling to back up their respective claims to fame. Now, while you might think Naruto's sensory will give him a significant advantage in this situation, I disagree. The reason I say this is because Ichigo has advanced sensory capabilities as well, as does every experienced Shinigami, as was explained by Shunsui when he tricked Sternritter X, Lille by abusing this fact:

Bleach Chapter 645: Don't Chase A Shadow

Now, while Naruto's might be a little more advanced, when it's a battle experienced Shinigami like Ichigo I don't think the gap is more than "very slight". While combat speed is basically an even match in my humble opinion, travel speed goes to Ichigo by a decent margin, due to scaling to people like Ichibei, who have feats approaching the relativistic range. This advantage will afford Ichigo the ability to dodge a large majority of Naruto's projectile or energy based attacks as well as hold a mobility advantage over Naruto, which affords him the ability to implement a number of strategies, such as launching ranged attacks from several different directions at once before Naruto can intercept him, as well as constantly pressuring him from different angles, among other things.

Strongest Shinigami's Powers VS Naruto's Arsenal

In this Section of my opener, I'll be adressing Ichigo's different abilities and attacks, in essence, his versatility and how it helps him deal with Naruto's own. I'll also acknowledge that when it comes to said versatility, Naruto definitely has an undeniable advantage. Nevertheless, I've found Ichigo has counters to a large majority of Naruto's moves through the use of his own attacks and abilities, which is something I'll be adressing towards the end of this section.

To start of with, Ichigo's Zanpaktou, Zangetsu, possesses a special move, which I've decided to include in this section, the Getsuga Tenshou. In essence, the Getsuga Tenshou is a huge blast of spiritual energy that is fired from Ichigo's sword, which deals both piercing and energy damage and can be activated with the merest flick of the blade, requiring no time to create, charge up nor giving any sign it's coming(same goes for its more powerful variation, the Getsuga Juujishou):

Bleach Chapter 583: The Headless Star 2

To describe the potency of this attack best, the explanation for the attack itself that is given by Ichigo when he first consciously uses it against Byakuya is probably the best way:

Bleach Chapter 161: Scratch The Sky

In case you didn't understand, what Ichigo is saying is that the Getsuga Tenshou essentially takes the power of his normal slashes(see the first section for just how potent those slashes are), increases it exponentially and then fires it off as a beam of spiritual energy, which, as said before, has been shown to deal both piercing and energy damage, making it all the more deadly. However, the absolute most deadly aspect of this attack is, in my opinion, the complete lack of signs it's coming as well the fact that it requires only a flick of the blade to pull off. This means that, at any given time, whether in the middle of a CQC bout or while dodging Naruto's attacks, Ichigo can fire off these huge energy blasts multiple times more powerful than his regular slashes suddenly and without any warning, which means that eventually, they'll surely tag Naruto, especially considering their very large area of effect.

Now that we've covered Ichigo's most used offensive technique(there's still more where that came from though), let's get to his impressive defensive techniques. Usually, Ichigo's defensive abilities aside from his natural durability are basically non-existent, but since this is a Composite Canon Ichigo, he has access to some truly mind-blowing stuff. The first thing I want to introduce you to is the Quincy technique, Blut Vene. By circulating Reishi into and under their skin, Quincies can harden their skin to absolutely ridiculous levels. Using this technique, even relatively unimpressive guys like the Sternritter Royd the Yourself(disguised as Yhwach here) was able to withstand being in almost immediate proximity to Yamamoto's 15,000,000 degree Bankai(the heat of the sun) and Ichigo was able to no-sell a full-on stab from Yhwach of all people while using it:

Bleach Chapter 508: Like A Raging Fire and Chapter 513: Dark Moon Stroke

When one adds this technique to Ichigo's natural durability to both physical blows and energy attacks(was able to withstand Lanza easily), I really have a hard time picturing Naruto's techniques all too much damage to him, even if they do attack on a cellular level with wind blades like the Rasenshuriken because they'd actually have to be able to pierce his skin first, which, between his raw durability and the Blut Vene, is no easy task.

And that's not even everything either. Even if, despite the additional defence the Blut Vene provides, Naruto is able to damage Ichigo(I have no doubt in my mind it will happen eventually), the latter has a healing factor that will allow him to withstand and regenerate almost all of the damage Naruto inflicts. Through the use of his inner hollows high-speed regeneration Ichigo was able to regenerate both a large cut on his shoulder, a severed arm and a large hole through his chest easily on separate occasions:

Bleach Chapter 220: King And His Horse and Bleach Chapter 353: The Ash

Where I'm trying to give with this is that a Composite Ichigo is very, very hard to out down and has lots of free room when it comes to taking attacks. For now, that'll be all for Ichigo's powers. There are several other things he still has up his sleeve, but I'd much rather save those for the next posts, since you clearly also have some more stuff up your sleeve Darth.

The main use the Getsuga's have aside from the obvious dealing of damage is countering Naruto's arsenal via the dispelling of his techniques. If Naruto sends clones at Ichigo, a mere wave of his sword will be able to dispose of them with an energy beam covering hundreds of meters, something they won't be able to dodge in time. If Naruto fires some of his more high-end techniques, like Rasenshuriken or basic Bijuudama's, Ichigo can use his Getsuga's to either intercept them, making them explode before they reach him, or outright cancelling them out with raw power, something a Getsuga should be capable of, seeing as to how it's confirmed to be multiple times more potent than Ichigo's physical blows. Then, due to the Quincies Blut Vene and the Hollows high-speed regeneration, Ichigo will be able to withstand even Naruto's more potent attacks that use up lots of Chakra, even if his already established movement speed isn't enough to dodge them, or if Naruto manages to hit him using one of his ploys.

Opening Strategy Counters

I hope you don't mind, but I've taken it upon myself to get the discussion rolling by discussing your Strategy and reasons why Naruto wins, saying why I don't think it'll pan out and in turn stating my reasons and strategy for Ichigo's victory.

Why I Believe Naruto Ichigo Wins:

So this section is meant to lay out an opening strategy and argument for why and how I believe Naruto takes a majority over Ichigo. Bringing this post full circle from the first section, it comes down to two main factors. The first being Naruto's versatility and combat prowess/resourcefulness being superior to Ichigo. Ichigo is a very straightforward, brute force type of fighter having really only two named techniques (three counting Mugetsu) and the rest being just auto attack for the win, I don't think he has anything Naruto hasn't seen before.

While I agree that both Naruto's versatility and resourcefulness are superior to Ichigo's, I also feel that Ichigo's moveset in particular boasts counters to almost all of Naruto's relevant jutsus(specific counters can be found in the section below) and that his advantages in certain, vital categories like physical strength and movement/travel speed will prove more important than Naruto's versatility in the end. Not to mention that, while it's true Naruto does have more versatility, I think you're underestimating how much a Composite Ichigo has up his sleeve and how difficult it will prove for Naruto to deal with Ichigo's versatility, not just the other way around.

In fact I would argue that Naruto has already faced and "beaten" per se a superior version of Ichigo in the form of Sasuke, who while maybe not as physically powerful as Ichigo, is just as faster if not faster, has a sword focused fighting style, along with a hell of a lot more to offer in terms of an arsenal.

I don't think you can make a comparison between Sasuke and Ichigo so easily for multiple reasons, those being that Sasuke, while also being a sword wielder, simply doesn't have the same way of fighting or the same options as Ichigo with his incredible movement speed, as well as short and long range sword attacks that can be unleashed with as little as a flick of the hand on his part. In addition, Naruto's experience and knowledge on Sasuke as well as the latters usage of a huge avatar, just like Naruto(as opposed to Ichigo's normal human size) played a huge part in their bout, all of which simply aren't present here.

In regards to Ichigo, I don't see him dealing with everything Naruto has to offer, and will eventually lose the battle, no matter how good it may be.

I disagree. Personally, my reasons for believing Ichigo can take a majority over Naruto are rather straight forward, much like Ichigo's fighting style. While Naruto may very well have an advantage in combat speed when it's RKCM Vs Ichigo, he simply can't afford to stay in that form because it doesn't have the durability to consistently deal with Ichigo's piercing output, both in the form of pure strikes and Getsuga's. And once Naruto is forced to transform into his Bijuu Mode, Ichigo's advantages can really come to show, those being his concentrated physical power and Getsuga's that will be raining down from all sides with no warning courtesy of Ichigo's superior movement speed via Flash Steps. In addition, Ichigo's raw durability is a factor I just don't see Naruto managing to get passed, between Lanza no-selling raw physical durability, the additional defence provided by the potent Blut Vene and his high-speed regeneration.

How I Believe Naruto Ichigo Wins:

So I realize I have not laid out feats and what not in a typical fashion, in fact I'll get more into every single offensive feat and jutsu in my next post.

I look forward to it, my friend!

Trying something different, instead I offer in this post more of a why I believe Naruto wins and how Ichigo's main abilities will not net him a victory. If you do notice however I have laid out the beginnings of a stratagem(s) that I believe will lead to a ninja victory:

1.Test Ichigo & discern his fighting style:

We have seen Naruto start fights opening with his shadow clones. I don't intend to spam things like 1000 shadow clones GG, however I do feel a solid 3-5 are a good match to get an idea of what Naruto is working with against Ichigo. And given how well the clones have come along by the EOS i.e fighting Madara's Limbo clones, even that won't be easy for Ichigo to deal with. Especially if they go into Tailed Beast Mode

On this matter, I've simply got to put my foot down and say that I don't think clones will serve any major purpose against Ichigo. While their raw stats and ability to use jutsus are more or less on-par with the originals, their piercing(and energy) durability simply aren't enough to take any attacks from Ichigo, who has several established ways to deal with things like clones, one of which is simply flexing his Reiatsu like he did against Yhwach in their second to last fight and dispelling and/or ragdolling Naruto's clones, giving him no chance to discover anything about Ichigo's fighting style:

Bleach Chapter 676: Horn of Salvation

His other ways of dealing with clones include simply unleashing a casual Getsuga Tenshou with a wave of the blade or using the pressure of his sword, which infamously vaporised that hill in the fight against Aizen. Even those methods wouldn't give Naruto anything over than an extremely basic look at what Ichigo uses, no more than Ichigo himself would gain from seeing that Naruto can use clones, really.

2.A Full-On Assault:

This is where more of Naruto's offensive ninjutsu/senjutsu will come into play. To give you and our readers what we are working with:

I'll be going over Naruto's most arguable potent jutsu outside of the Tailed Beast Bomb, The Rasenshuriken. One of its best feats are as seen here when they destroy Madara's huge country level meteors:

While I agree that Rasenshurikens definitely qualify as a threat, even to Ichigo, he has several ways to deal with them as well. The most basic and in-character ways of doing so would be sending a Getsuga at the approaching Rasenshuriken and intercepting it before it can reach Ichigo, either cancelling it out or making it explode before it reaches its goal. I understand that you might argue that this will be difficult if Naruto uses clones to bombard Ichigo from all directions, but I'd like to make note of the fact that Naruto won't exactly have the luxury of throwing attacks at Ichigo until the latter dies, he has to watch out for Ichigo's potent piercing attacks coupled with Getsuga's and his travel speed, which should be great enough to dodge even multiple Rasenshurikens if this scenario does arise.

That brings me to my next argument of Naruto's clones that he also pretty much spams and uses to great effect:I won't post every single feat with Naruto's shadow clones as there are honestly too many for me, but he uses them in a deceptive way and they can all replicate his physical and jutsu feats aside from drawn out durability.And even Kaguya was fooled more than once by Naruto's shadow clones, despite possessing the Byakugan and the Rinne Sharingan, visual prowess that allow the user to see through nearly any illusion or jutsu:So not only will there be multiples of Naruto, who Ichigo will have a hard time discerning the difference, but he has incredibly potent attacks that will surely bring great harm if not even kill him.

I've already addressed the usage of Shadow Clones in CQC combat, so I won't do it again here. At the end here, I want to make sure that both you and the voters are aware that winning this battle isn't as simple as throwing out shadow clones and Rasenshurikens until Ichigo dies. Naruto has to watch out for Ichigo's immense piercing output, which can be applied both from range and at CQC, making it all the more deadly. Finally, I'm confident that, due to his raw durability and the additional techniques he has in the form of regeneration and Blut Vene, Ichigo will be able to take a decent number of Naruto's attacks, even if they are Rasenshurikens or Bijuudamas, before submitting.

Now, it's time for my Strategy which, surprise surprise, is really simple. Ichigo's gonna use his superior physicals(compared to RKCM), piercing damage and his Flash Steps to pressure Naruto from all sides, while defending himself using Blut Vene and firing off different sorts of Getsuga's in-between his physical strikes. If Naruto tries to make regular clones, Ichigo will either blow them away with his air pressure or his Reiatsu, if he makes Bijuu Mode clones, he'll start cutting into them and dancing round them using his travel speed, while letting Naruto deal with the immense chakra toll that comes from several Bijuu Mode Clones and their attacks. If Naruto tries to use energy attacks, Getsuga's will intercept them or they'll be dodged, while Ichigo's defensive abilities make sure he'll survive the attacks Naruto does hit him with. Then, once Naruto starts to tire, which'll almost undoubtedly happen before Ichigo does due to the formers consistent abuse of incredibly chakra consuming clones+incredibly chakra consuming Bijuu Mode, while the latter could run on a Reiatsu draining machine for 5 days before running out while massively weaker(see Bleach Chapter 217), Ichigo will launch a full-on physical assault at full power by wrapping his physical strikes in a Getsuga like he did against Ulquiorra and attacking at full force:

Bleach Chapter 342: The Greed

An already tired out Naruto likely won't be able to hold against an assault with multiple times the power of Ichigo's already ridiculous normal strikes, especially if it's continuous.

Of course I'm not saying or implying that this Strategy would definitely work or come to pass, think of it more like one drafted out way Ichigo could win this fight by utilising all of his advantages over Naruto. Basically, it serves to show just how Ichigo's advantages could be used to overcome Naruto, rather than a definitive answer to what exactly he'd do to win.

Initial Thoughts And Conclusion

To sum up my main points at the end, much like my opponent did at the end of his post:

  • Ichigo's piercing output is too much for RKCM Naruto to consistently handle without transforming into Bijuu Mode
  • Ichigo's advantage when it comes to travel speed will allow him to control the course of the battle quite effectively
  • Ichigo's powerset and stats afford him counters to almost all of Naruto's relevant versatility, jutsus and strategies
  • Ichigo's strength, defense and stamina coupled with his own versatility are too much for Naruto in a struggle of raw power

Woah, that was fun. I'm looking forward to your next post, @darthjhawk.

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HitTheAssasin

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darthjhawk

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#38 darthjhawk  Moderator

@hittheassasin: And so it begins in earnest. Great stuff. I’m really looking forward to this.

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LeoTheGreatest

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Great posts guys. Tag after every post moving forward.

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ovy7

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A very well made post! I'm getting the feeling that it would be difficult deciding on who to vote in the end.

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universeichigo1

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Not as lowballed as I thought it would be. Tag after each post.

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ourmanuel

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????

Tag after everything.

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DeathHero61

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#43  Edited By DeathHero61

Bleach really is underrated, jesus christ the feats.

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deactivated-5c60dc252a2af

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Thenewguysnm1

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Gosh you guys good.

Hopefully i get there some day

Tag me at the end please?

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Gaoron

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Great openers from both of you.

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darthjhawk

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#47 darthjhawk  Moderator

Gonna give this a bump. Post incoming either late tonight or mid day tomorrow

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ourmanuel

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darthjhawk

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#50 darthjhawk  Moderator

@ourmanuel: Don’t worry I’m still in this. Had to do some re-reading and added a new part to my post.