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#1 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr. Incredible being represented by NormanBates

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VS

Drax The Destroyer being represented by jloneblackheart

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Battle Rules

  • Standard Gear (I'll go into this later) (Both can also use the environment around them)
  • Both are in their prime
  • Morals on
  • Winner by death/KO/incapacitation.
  • Current/Most recent 616 Drax
  • Mr. Incredible gets feats from both tie-in comics and the movie
  • No help/interference
  • Random encounter/no knowledge on opposing opponent
  • Both start 50 feet with each other on sight

Location: Times Square NY (Unpopulated & Afternoon Time)

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Voting Rules

  • This is strictly a debate between me and @jloneblackheart.
  • If you have an opinion on who would win this fight, put a sock in it till the end of the debate and once voting opens.
  • We're the only arguing.
  • When voting, be sure to give good reasons and points to why you voted for that person.

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#3 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#4 Posted by blackestnight93 (13261 posts) - - Show Bio

As someone who absolutely loved the Incredibles movie. Consider me T4V

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#5 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by AngelJax (2663 posts) - - Show Bio

Inteesting....Tag

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#7 Edited by NortonEk (211 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v.

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#8 Posted by Battle123axe (4115 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#9 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio
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Drax the Destroyer

Killed by Thanos, Earthman Arthur Douglas was resurrected by Mentor and Kronos of Titan who felt responsible for their lineage and fight against Thanos and his evil schemes. Reborn as Drax the Destroyer, he was given a nearly indestructible body and an uncontrollable desire to kill Thanos. Drax has no need for air, sleep, food or water (alcohol excluded) and is perfectly adept to his moniker. Drax in his current form is no exception.

Strength

While not as physically strong as his previous incarnations, Drax still has impressive strength. He can effortlessly punch through a frozen bank vault (All-New Guardians of the Galaxy #1), robots (Annihilation Prologue), and spaceship canopies (Drax #8). He can rip through metal with his bare hands (Drax #8).

While not as impressive as Mr. Incredible, Drax can throw around a few tons as well.

  • Scan 1) Throws Car (Drax the Destroyer #2)
  • Scans 2-3) Throws multi-ton beast (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #21)
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Speed

Contrary to what many may think, Drax isn’t the standard brick. He has incredible speed and reaction times. He can easily weave through blaster fire against Shi’ar Imperial Troops (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 #15). With his back turned and with guns on him, he is able to blitz Nikki, who's pretty darn quick herself (Guardians of Infinity #1). Drax can also leap great distances and land with great accuracy (Drax #11)

  • Scan 1) Takes out a Centurion who just blasted him and is blitzing him (Annihilation #3)
  • Scan 2) Too fast for Killer Thrill’s telekinesis (Drax #9)
  • Scan 3) Catches up to a cruiser trying to escape him (Drax #2)
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Durability

For all intents and purposes, Drax is pretty much invulnerable to physical injury, specifically blunt force. I’ll work a slow build throughout the debate, but keep in mind that every single scan I show Drax recovers from, and usually quickly. In fact, there are very few occasions where Drax has been knocked unconscious.

Drax is bulletproof and blaster proof [1] [2] (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #9). Even at point blank in his armpit (All-New Guardians of the Galaxy #2). Tearing through steel walls tanking blaster fire (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #2). While I am aware Mr. Incredible doesn't use weapons, this just goes to show Drax's skin resilience and toughness.

Since we are in a city setting, there may be a chance of being caught in a fire or explosion (intentional or accidental). Let’s start with the small stuff. Dragon fire has no effect on Drax (Drax #10), even from the great Fin Fang Foom himself (Drax #3).

For fun, here’s a strength and durability showing against one of those dragons (Drax #10).

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#10 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@normanbates

I believe this is a good start. I look forward to seeing how incredible Mr. Incredible is since I haven’t read the comics. I do love the movie though.

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#11 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Good work, I should have my post up either tomorrow or the day after.

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#12 Edited by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr Incredible

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Bio

Robert "Bob" Parr, was one of the very few humans born with super powers, a race of humans that's known as "Supers". Sometime in his adult life, he took up the identity of Mr. Incredible thus becoming a superhero in the process. At one point in his life, Mr. Incredible had met Elastic Girl or Helen. The two fell in love, and wedded sometime after. His superhero life continued and was going smooth until bystanders sued after being injured in relation to his crime fighting episodes. The backlash from this forced Mr. Incredible and other fellow heroes into confinement, living ordinary lives as everyday civilians. From there on, Bob started a family with Helen having 3 kids in the process, John "Jack Jack" Jackson Parr, Dashielle Robert "Dash" Parr, and Violet Parr. Bored with his current life, Bob still desires being a hero and goes as far as responding to police scanners and goes as far as saving people from building fires, and nearly getting killed in the process to fulfill his desire. He keeps this gig up, until he gets a message from a woman named "Mirage" who selects him for the mission of destroying a tripod-like robot called the Omnidroid on the remote island of Nomanisan, allowing him to become Mr.Incredible again. From there, he proceeds to continue his superhero crusade along with his superpowered family members.

Abilities

  • Superhuman Strength
  • Nigh Invulnerability
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Agility
  • Superhuman Senses
  • Expert Strategist
  • Expert H2H combatant

Gear

  • Super Suit (I'll get into what this does and what its capable of)

Strength

Bob's greatest asset and will play a big part in helping him win this fight. I will admit Arthur is fairly strong, however not enough to surpass Mr. Incredible in this field. Observe him both squatting and preventing a robotic T-Rex from sealing its jaws closed:

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According to scientific reports, a bite force from a T-Rex can rank up to 8,000 lbswhich is equivalent to the force of three cars, pulverizing bones.

Another strength feat in mind, is tackling the Omnidroid V10 which could weigh from 10-50 tons or more just by looking at its size.

Note: This is the same robot that can no sell and anchor itself when tanking tank (Heh...heh, repetition) rounds.

And Bob was able to take it down quite easily.

Furthermore, Mr. Incredible on two occasions stopped speeding trains, the first when he was in his prime, and another when he was much older:

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If that wasn't impressive enough, he sends the multi-ton Omnidroid v8 flying with a single strike.

And for what it's worth, this same bot is completely lavaproof (2,120 *Farenheit).

Overall, his strength exceeds that of 55 tons according to Syndrome's database.

So with all that being said, Mr. Incredible should be comfortably superior in this area. Moving on, let's talk about durability.

Durability/Super-Suit

Let's start off in this area, by talking about Bob's "Super Suit". The latter was designed by Edna Mode, whose suits are "virtually indestructible". I don't know about you, but I would take that statement for what's it worth, and that's every part of it. Take for example, it completely no selling multiple missiles as well as minigun rounds. Plus it can endure the temperature of over 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. So with the suit part out of the way, let's talk about Bob's durability. Mr. Incredible is like a mobile tank, literally regarding his durability and endurance. He no sells strikes from the Omnidroid V 8, and I don't need to tell you how impressive that is, as the size of the bot speaks for itself.

However, If I was forced to I would tell you that it push rooted trees with ease.

He also no sold a blow that was hard enough into a hard enough for it to break.

Note: Normal trees on average require a force of 70,000 lbs to break in half.

He also withstands the impact of getting hit by a speeding train.

He's also capable of tanking a laser blast from the Omnidroid V 10,which can one-shot tanks.

As well as, tanking a construction crane (39,690 pounds) falling on him from what looks to be at least 100 feet:

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There are more durability feats for this guy, but I think these will work for now. I just want to say if Drax resorts to H2H, he'll find himself struggling as he has to bypass Mr. Incredible's durability and deal with his brute strength as well.

Speed/Agility/Reflexes

Just like with Drax, Bob is often underestimated in this area but tends to make up for it with actual showings. For example, Bob can easily jump and do a flip over the 20 foot+ Omnidroid V8 in one leap using no momentum. (Note: This was when Bob was out of shape) And can avoid laser fire from the same bot just different model.Tags a speedster vehicle in midair.Outruns the Omnidroid V8 in "ball form" that at least surpasses multiple mph while mobile.

This should do for now, onto morals.

Morals

You said you have seen the Incredibles film, yes? You and I both know Bob is a hero, but he's also a hero that's willing to kill if necessary. He gives multiple henchman and goons this type of treatment, either to protect himself, his family or both throughout the film. He even resorted to killing Syndrome, who once looked up to Mr. Incredible because he knew he would stop at all costs in terrorizing his family. In this battle, Bob will know it's go time the second he sees Drax draws his knives and will possibly go as far as killing him to protect himself or no longer restrain himself.

In my next area of discussion, I will bring up Mr. Incredible's gameplan or strategy.

Strategy & Gameplan

Based on the scans you and I have posted, Mr. Incredible should be superior in strength, durability combined with his super suit, reflexes, and similar in agility. So with that being said here's how my gameplan goes: Bob and Drax will have one another in each other's sight. Drax being the aggressor that he is will most likely charge at him, weapons drawn and going for the kill. Bob will then use surrounding items to potentially help him in stop the charging Drax whether it'd be cars, fire hydrants, pieces of buildings, you name it by throwing them at him while mobile. Once he realizes that doesn't work, and Drax is up close he'll give up on the former idea and proceed to CQC. In CQC, Bob will utilize his combat speed and agility, to dodge each of Drax's attack while landing blows after each one in an attempt to wear him down. Or what he could do is, in CQC Bob can go for an uppercut sending Drax flying back, lose his footing, and most likely his weapons. From there Drax, will proceed to engage Bob in H2H where Bob will curbstomp him. Or once Drax is knocked on his feet, Bob will close the distance in an attempt to pin him down and beat him into oblivion. With all that being said, I look forward to your gameplan and strategy. Good luck on your next post :)

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#13 Posted by Major_Hellstorm (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

This is epic but I can't help but feel like Drax holds the advantage. T4V, I wanna see what is said.

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#15 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@normanbates: Sweet post. I'll try and get something up tonight.

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#19 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by DeathHero61 (15160 posts) - - Show Bio

Aww when I look back on it now, I actually had characters that could fight him.

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#21 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Drax or Mr. Incredible? If the former, you ain't seen nothing yet!

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#22 Posted by DeathHero61 (15160 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Drax or Mr. Incredible? If the former, you ain't seen nothing yet!

Incredible. I thought he was a weakling, some of the characters I suggested would have some issues fighting him.

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#23 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio
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I will admit Arthur is fairly strong, however not enough to surpass Mr. Incredible in this field. Observe him both squatting and preventing a robotic T-Rex from sealing its jaws closed:

According to scientific reports, a bite force from a T-Rex can rank up to 8,000 lbswhich is equivalent to the force of three cars, pulverizing bones.

I did get a chance to check out these comics. Great stories I thought, but not much in the feat departments (at least for Bob). I hate to nitpick, but Tronasaurus 2.0 was a robot so that force may not apply (on the other hand it could potentially be greater) Regardless, that cover didn’t happen in the comic. He did punch the robot once, but it was already defeated by Dash before he got there (he just didn’t know it).

Furthermore, Mr. Incredible on two occasions stopped speeding trains, the first when he was in his prime, and another when he was much older:

Stopping trains are awesome feats and probably the best in any heroes’ arsenal. Picking up and throwing weight is nothing compared to stopping the momentum of the same weight.

Overall, his strength exceeds that of 55 tons according to Syndrome's database.

So with all that being said, Mr. Incredible should be comfortably superior in this area.

I would agree. I’ve already shown Drax’s greatest lifting feats.

But alas, the trap was set and the bait taken. Mr. Incredible has the greater feats for sure, but Drax throws down with people above his weight class on a regular basis and has proven his striking power on many occasions. What he lacks in lifting feats, he makes up for in, well, destroying.

  • Scan 1) Drax absolutely smashes Smasher of the Imperial Guard. He has the power of superhuman strength and durability. It’s a legacy position. If he wasn’t killed here, he was retired because it was his first and last appearance. (War of Kings #3)
  • Scans 2-3) Drax beats the Blood Brothers who are 50 tonners in close proximity to one another who fight Iron Man and Thing. And they lost two on one. (Drax the Destroyer #4)
  • Scans 4-5) Drax punches through Magus who is the evil version of Adam Warlock. It doesn’t get too much higher on the food chain than that. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 #19)
  • Scans 6-7) Drax punches and sends Angela flying. Angela is a high level Asgardian who can content with Thor. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #6)
  • Scan 8) Drax’s punches stagger Fin Fang Foom who is a class 100 easy. (Drax #5)
  • Scan 9) Drax bloodies up Gladiator another class 100 opponent. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #17)
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

Let's start off in this area, by talking about Bob's "Super Suit". The latter was designed by Edna Mode, whose suits are "virtually indestructible". I don't know about you, but I would take that statement for what's it worth, and that's every part of it.

I could nitpick this as well and point out that Edna specifically states she made each suit individually based on the Parr’s power sets, with only the bulletproof and fireproof being the “basics” she gave Jack-Jack since she didn’t know his powers (meaning those two attributes are the only ones each suit shares).

I’d also note the word “virtually” meaning they are not completely indestructible. For example, bulletproof vests are not knife proof. Also, while it may be a tongue-in-cheek comment from Doc Sunbright, it brings up an interesting point about the suits being stitched together, obviously having weak points. (The Incredibles: Family Matters #2)

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Ultimately though, the suits can and have been damaged. Here we see Mr. Incredible after an indirect battle with the grown-to-giant-size Ungorilla and a massive robot. He wasn’t even taking the blows himself (he was inside the robot) and his suit is in tatters. (The Incredibles #15)

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The suit also only protects what it covers.

I just want to say if Drax resorts to H2H, he'll find himself struggling as he has to bypass Mr. Incredible's durability and deal with his brute strength as well.

I’ve already shown how Drax deals with brute strength and dishes out his own. The suits can be damaged and Bob’s durability should be no problem here and certainly doesn’t exceed Drax’s (which we will get to). He even had a swollen eye from the gorilla-robot battle above.

Drax prefers bladed weapons and carries two long daggers with him. Aside from cutting through steel and such on a regular basis, he can and has cut opponents with superhuman durability. Here we see how the fight ended against the Blood Brothers. The plural is now past tense.

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More impressively, he cuts off Lunatik’s head. Note also the speed at which he did it and the strength to crush his head with his bare hands. (Drax the Destroyer #4)

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If you don’t know, Lunatik is a class 100 Lobo rip-off who is virtually immune to physical injury. In his first appearances, we see him tanking massive explosions and being punched across a planet by the Silver Surfer. (Marvel Comics Presents #174)

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I don’t think Drax will have any issue putting his knives through Bob’s suit. We’ve also already seen that Bob himself can be cut in his fight with the Omnidroid v8 when it cut through his old super suit.

You and I both know Bob is a hero, but he's also a hero that's willing to kill if necessary. He gives multiple henchman and goons this type of treatment, either to protect himself, his family or both throughout the film. He even resorted to killing Syndrome, who once looked up to Mr. Incredible because he knew he would stop at all costs in terrorizing his family. In this battle, Bob will know it's go time the second he sees Drax draws his knives and will possibly go as far as killing him to protect himself or no longer restrain himself.

I don’t want to argue this point that much, but I’m not so sure he intended to kill Syndrome. I’d agree he’d be willing to kill when his family is threatened, but they aren’t here. He probably would pull out the stops though if he thought he was to die, but by then he might be too close to dying.

Drax being the aggressor that he is will most likely charge at him, weapons drawn and going for the kill. Bob will then use surrounding items to potentially help him in stop the charging Drax whether it'd be cars, fire hydrants, pieces of buildings, you name it by throwing them at him while mobile. Once he realizes that doesn't work, and Drax is up close he'll give up on the former idea and proceed to CQC.

I certainly agree Drax will be aggressive here. He’s the destroyer. It’s what he does. Bob can throw whatever he wants; it will only delay the inevitable (which you already admit). But let’s continue that slow build durability I mentioned. Let’s explore some greater damage than mere blasters and dragon fire. Let’s see him get hit by something. HARD.

  • Scan 1-2) Drax gets right up from a fall miles above a planet. (Drax #7)
  • Scans 3-4) Drax “no surprise” survives a ship crashing to Earth. (Drax the Destroyer #1)
  • Scans 5-6) Drax survives a crash landing again, this time in a smaller ship. (Drax #1)
  • Scans 7-8) Drax is unharmed by exploding warship that takes out Iron Man. Drax was on the ship at the time of explosion while Iron Man was not. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #1)
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In CQC, Bob will utilize his combat speed and agility, to dodge each of Drax's attack while landing blows after each one in an attempt to wear him down.

I think the speed feats I’ve shown put Drax in a superhuman class while Bob is merely quick for his size. Wearing him down isn’t going to be much of an option as shown and I’m still saving the best durability feats for last. Drax requires no rest, food or air. Mr. Incredible on the other hand has only a human level of stamina. He was able to grow out of shape and get winded. I haven’t seen anything yet proving he can withstand prolonged combat to the degree Drax can.

Or what he could do is, in CQC Bob can go for an uppercut sending Drax flying back, lose his footing, and most likely his weapons. From there Drax, will proceed to engage Bob in H2H where Bob will curbstomp him.

Curbstomp? What exactly are Mr. Incredible’s fighting credentials? He seems like a brawler who uses his super strength to his advantage and when that fails, he uses his mind.

Drax is built for combat. Along with his great strength and superior speed and durability, he also possesses great fighting ability and prowess. Although he was out of shape and long out of the hero game, we see that Bob does have the same skeletal systems as any human in his first fight with the Omnidroid. If his back (or other joints) can be hurt, Drax can and will hurt them. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 #5)

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Drax is certainly the better fighter of the two and faster to boot. He can also cover greater distances with leaps. I don’t see any advantage for Bob except lifting strength and Drax has taken on people who exceed double that ability.

The strategy is simple: Destroy. Drax can outfight and outlast Mr. Incredible and take all the shots he can deliver.

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#25 Posted by shirso (855 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#26 Edited by Helloman (7164 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#27 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Wow, that's a big response. It'll definitely take me a while to come up with some good rebuttals.

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#28 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (12678 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Wait, so is Drax a human ?? Is this a different character than Classic Drax ??

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#30 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: All versions of Drax are the same.character. It's his soul put in a body to destroy Thanos. There are three versions. Classic, the beefcake Hulk version and the current version. He changes after his resurrections. So yes its the same character, but different body. Current Drax has a lot less physical power, no flight, no energy blasts and no telepathy, among other differences. The two previous versions would make this quite the unfair match up.

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#31 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (12678 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: All versions of Drax are the same.character. It's his soul put in a body to destroy Thanos. There are three versions. Classic, the beefcake Hulk version and the current version. He changes after his resurrections. So yes its the same character, but different body. Current Drax has a lot less physical power, no flight, no energy blasts and no telepathy, among other differences. The two previous versions would make this quite the unfair match up.

So he still retains all of his previous memories and personality ?? That clears it up, thanks.

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#32 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: Not really. He was pretty mindless in his second reincarnation. Gamora has commented that that he isn't the Drax she used to know. Can't really say on the memories, he doesn't talk all that much as it is, let alone reminiscing.

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#33 Edited by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart:

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Rebuttals

I did get a chance to check out these comics. Great stories I thought, but not much in the feat departments (at least for Bob). I hate to nitpick, but Tyrannosaurus 2.0 was a robot so that force may not apply (on the other hand it could potentially be greater) Regardless, that cover didn’t happen in the comic. He did punch the robot once, but it was already defeated by Dash before he got there (he just didn’t know it).

Fair point.

Stopping trains are awesome feats and probably the best in any heroes’ arsenal. Picking up and throwing weight is nothing compared to stopping the momentum of the same weight.

You're absolutely right, but it still puts that character in the multi-ton range.

I would agree. I’ve already shown Drax’s greatest lifting feats.

But alas, the trap was set and the bait taken. Mr. Incredible has the greater feats for sure, but Drax throws down with people above his weight class on a regular basis and has proven his striking power on many occasions. What he lacks in lifting feats, he makes up for in, well, destroying.

Scan 1) Drax absolutely smashes Smasher of the Imperial Guard. He has the power of superhuman strength and durability. It’s a legacy position. If he wasn’t killed here, he was retired because it was his first and last appearance. (War of Kings #3)

Scans 2-3) Drax beats the Blood Brothers who are 50 tonners in close proximity to one another who fight Iron Man and Thing. And they lost two on one. (Drax the Destroyer #4)

Scans 4-5) Drax punches through Magus who is the evil version of Adam Warlock. It doesn’t get too much higher on the food chain than that. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 #19)

Scans 6-7) Drax punches and sends Angela flying. Angela is a high level Asgardian who can content with Thor. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #6)

Scan 8) Drax’s punches stagger Fin Fang Foom who is a class 100 easy. (Drax #5)

Scan 9) Drax bloodies up Gladiator another class 100 opponent. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #17)

While those are impressive, I would like to comment on the last scan regarding Gladiator. Now what I'm about to say might sound like I'm reaching here and I probably am, but what if I were to call PIS on that one? I'm saying this because he has tanked hits from Thor wielding Mjolnir, as well a blast to the face from Tyrant's eye-beams (KO'd Surfer) and no blood was drawn there. So why is it that somebody as weak as Drax (no offense to Drax, he's certainly impressive) can draw blood from him (unless I'm missing some important context behind the fight)?

I could nitpick this as well and point out that Edna specifically states she made each suit individually based on the Parr’s power sets, with only the bulletproof and fireproof being the “basics” she gave Jack-Jack since she didn’t know his powers (meaning those two attributes are the only ones each suit shares).

I disagree with the suits having 2 mutual attributes. Remember how I showed Elastic Girl's Suit tanking missiles? His previous blue suit, back when he was in his prime allowed him to tank a near point blank explosion from one of Bomb Boyage's timed bombs. So if we were to go by what you're saying, it would contradict the feat I just posted.

I’d also note the word “virtually” meaning they are not completely indestructible. For example, bulletproof vests are not knife proof. Also, while it may be a tongue-in-cheek comment from Doc Sunbright, it brings up an interesting point about the suits being stitched together, obviously having weak points. (The Incredibles: Family Matters #2)

I'd take that comment with a grain of salt, as nowhere in the film or comic has there been any indication or discussion that the suit has weak points with the exception of the fight with the gorilla and his "old suit" being pierced.

Ultimately though, the suits can and have been damaged. Here we see Mr. Incredible after an indirect battle with the grown-to-giant-size Ungorilla and a massive robot. He wasn’t even taking the blows himself (he was inside the robot) and his suit is in tatters. (The Incredibles #15)

"Tatters" seems like an overstatement (won't hold it against you), I would say the suit is not in the best of shape but not to the point where it looks like Bob is wearing rags.

I’ve already shown how Drax deals with brute strength and dishes out his own. The suits can be damaged and Bob’s durability should be no problem here and certainly doesn’t exceed Drax’s (which we will get to). He even had a swollen eye from the gorilla-robot battle above.

A swollen eye isn't going to increase Mr. Incredible's chances of losing this battle as it's not a major injury. It's a injury worth of note, but it won't stop him from combating any less.

More impressively, he cuts off Lunatik’s head. Note also the speed at which he did it and the strength to crush his head with his bare hands. (Drax the Destroyer #4) If you don’t know, Lunatik is a class 100 Lobo rip-off who is virtually immune to physical injury. In his first appearances, we see him tanking massive explosions and being punched across a planet by the Silver Surfer. (Marvel Comics Presents #174)

Okay so this impressive but piercing durability doesn't translate into blunt force. Example: Flash, Wonder Woman, and Batman to an extent. I know this is hardly relevant here, but I just wanted to point that out.

I don’t think Drax will have any issue putting his knives through Bob’s suit. We’ve also already seen that Bob himself can be cut in his fight with the Omnidroid v8 when it cut through his old super suit.

I disagree Amigo, regarding Bob's suit you said keyword "old". From what I know and a educated guess, Bob's new suit has more adjustments and is possibly more durable. Plus, the cut he received in his fight was minor which is impressive as the Omnidroid V8 wields superhuman strength. On top of that, Bob has shown good piercing durability in a deleted scene.

I don’t want to argue this point that much, but I’m not so sure he intended to kill Syndrome. I’d agree he’d be willing to kill when his family is threatened, but they aren’t here. He probably would pull out the stops though if he thought he was to die, but by then he might be too close to dying.

Throwing a car directly at a regular human is not trying to kill them? Furthermore, he tends to fight pretty brutal as shown in his fights with the Omnidroids, and for what it's worth even threatened to killMirage, who was completely innocent in act two of the film.

I certainly agree Drax will be aggressive here. He’s the destroyer. It’s what he does. Bob can throw whatever he wants; it will only delay the inevitable (which you already admit). But let’s continue that slow build durability I mentioned. Let’s explore some greater damage than mere blasters and dragon fire. Let’s see him get hit by something. HARD.

Certainly impressive, but I'll explain how Bob will counter this in my strategy.

I think the speed feats I’ve shown put Drax in a superhuman class while Bob is merely quick for his size. Wearing him down isn’t going to be much of an option as shown and I’m still saving the best durability feats for last. Drax requires no rest, food or air. Mr. Incredible on the other hand has only a human level of stamina. He was able to grow out of shape and get winded. I haven’t seen anything yet proving he can withstand prolonged combat to the degree Drax can.

Bob probably doesn't have superhuman stamina, however I don't plan on the match being prolonged (I'm referring to a match that can stretch to multiple hours or even days), and while Drax does have superhuman speed I'm more than positive when I say Mr. Incredible should be able to tag him as he was able to tag and take down a speedster vehicle that was capable of keeping up with Dash, who's fast enough to run on water.

Curbstomp? What exactly are Mr. Incredible’s fighting credentials? He seems like a brawler who uses his super strength to his advantage and when that fails, he uses his mind.

I will admit curbstomp is somewhat of a exaggeration after seeing what Drax is capable of. However, his fighting credentials consists of him fighting the Omnidroids, multiple armed henchman, and that amped gorilla we were discussing earlier. Moreover, he has the defeated the Omnidroid on two separate occasions, the first of which when he was out of shape and straight out of retirement and the second with the help of his family, and Frozone but it was his idea that led them to the win. What makes defeating the Omnidroid impressive is that it adapts to the opponent it's fighting, as it's programmed with a self learning AI to solve any problem confronted with. Now before you say anything, he did get stomped by the Omnidroid V9 but that's only because he was caught off guard.

Furthermore, your statement about Mr. Incredible using his strength first is only partially true because he does at time use his strength first however there have been occasions where his uses a combo of the two or just the smarts itself such as his battle with the Omnidroid V10.

Drax is certainly the better fighter of the two and faster to boot.

Based on those scans? The blue alien attacked at the beginning was completely off guard and sucker punched and that green one gave him trouble to a degree punching him twice and even once made him yelp out in pain. If anything, I'd say their equal or maybe not since Bob utilizes both brawling & strategy which I can't say for Drax unless you prove me wrong.

He can also cover greater distances with leaps.

Based on?

I don’t see any advantage for Bob except lifting strength and Drax has taken on people who exceed double that ability.

I disagree friend, it's possible Bob also holds the advantage in agility, smarts, maybe skill, and being a superior strategist.

The strategy is simple: Destroy. Drax can outfight and outlast Mr. Incredible and take all the shots he can deliver.

I'd argue Drax's durability can only take him so far before Bob taxes it with a great amount (possibly hundreds if not more) of punches or attacks to the face.

My strategy stays same, Bob will uppercut Drax hard enough to send him flying and keep him down for a few seconds, close the distance, and from there proceed to pin him down and deliver multiple blows to the face until Drax falls into unconsciousness.

With that being said, you're up bro.

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#34 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@normanbates: Awesome. I'll try to get my response up tomorrow night and it will be my final. It should be a little shorter, lol.

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#35 Edited by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Sounds good bro, and yeah my posts are getting shorter as well lol

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#36 Posted by High_Noon (397 posts) - - Show Bio

Omg, that Deleted Scene feat is hilarious, tag for votes

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#37 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

While those are impressive, I would like to comment on the last scan regarding Gladiator. Now what I'm about to say might sound like I'm reaching here and I probably am, but what if I were to call PIS on that one? I'm saying this because he has tanked hits from Thor wielding Mjolnir, as well a blast to the face from Tyrant's eye-beams (KO'd Surfer) and no blood was drawn there. So why is it that somebody as weak as Drax (no offense to Drax, he's certainly impressive) can draw blood from him (unless I'm missing some important context behind the fight)?

What? There’s no way that it’s PIS! It was a written by Bendis!

Anyway, Drax had been talking a lot of trash leading up to the fight and his reputation may have slightly affected Gladiator’s confidence, but the fight itself did end in PIS with Gladiator bringing Drax to space and choking him out, which neither should have any effect since he doesn’t require oxygen and can survive in space just fine. Gladiator (on another occasion) is actually the only person to ever KO Drax. But that still leaves five other instances of Drax beating or doing major damage to fighters of Mr. Incredible’s caliber or higher.

Since Surfer is my boy, I would also like to point out that that was the second blast he took from Tyrant as well as a physical strike prior.

I disagree with the suits having 2 mutual attributes. Remember how I showed Elastic Girl's Suit tanking missiles? His previous blue suit, back when he was in his prime allowed him to tank a near point blank explosion from one of Bomb Boyage's timed bombs. So if we were to go by what you're saying, it would contradict the feat I just posted.

Fair enough.

"Tatters" seems like an overstatement (won't hold it against you), I would say the suit is not in the best of shape but not to the point where it looks like Bob is wearing rags.

I even thought after I posted I was being a little over dramatic but didn’t want to risk an unnecessary edit and potentially mess things up. I agree, but the suit was still ripped.

A swollen eye isn't going to increase Mr. Incredible's chances of losing this battle as it's not a major injury. It's a injury worth of note, but it won't stop him from combating any less.

A swollen eye makes a big difference in a fight, ask any boxer. With only sight in one eye his peripheral is blocked and will reduce his combat effectiveness. You can’t react to what you can’t see, and Bob doesn’t have any enhanced senses. Since Drax is a skilled fighter, he can use this to his advantage.

Okay so this impressive but piercing durability doesn't translate into blunt force. Example: Flash, Wonder Woman, and Batman to an extent. I know this is hardly relevant here, but I just wanted to point that out.

This is actually kind of my point. While the suit is resistant to blunt force, it doesn’t mean it is resistant to piercing, especially from someone of Drax’s strength. As I said, a bullet proof vest can resist a bullet but not a knife.

Drax pierced the hides of the Blood Brothers and cut off Lunatik’s head. These guys have incredible durability easily on par (no pun intended) with and exceeding the super suit. Bob’s suit got holes in it from being jarred around inside of a robot taking impacts.

I disagree Amigo, regarding Bob's suit you said keyword "old". From what I know and a educated guess, Bob's new suit has more adjustments and is possibly more durable. Plus, the cut he received in his fight was minor which is impressive as the Omnidroid V8 wields superhuman strength. On top of that, Bob has shown good piercing durability in a deleted scene.

I wasn’t pointing out the old suit got cut, but Bob himself. Yes, the Omnidroid has superhuman strength, but so does Drax. The cut was only minor because it was a glancing blow. When Drax pierces the suit, it will pierce Bob, and it will be a thrust coming from a skilled blade user, not an automation testing its abilities.

I won’t argue the canonicity of the deleted scene, but comparing a common kitchen utensil to Drax’s blades is like comparing a butter knife to a katana. Drax’s alien blades cut through ridiculously durable opponents and steel. Go take a knife out of your kitchen and see if it can cut through your car door or some rebar. It should also be noted that Bob wouldn't be using his super strength to cut food or he'd be doing damage to his house or alerting guests of his superpowers.

Here’s a few more strength feats for Drax:

  • Scan 1-2) Drax’s blows create shockwaves (Guardians of the Galaxy: Tomorrow’s Avengers)
  • Scan 3) Rips Cancerverse Namor’s arm off (Thanos Imperative #2)
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Throwing a car directly at a regular human is not trying to kill them? Furthermore, he tends to fight pretty brutal as shown in his fights with the Omnidroids, and for what it's worth even threatened to kill Mirage, who was completely innocent in act two of the film.

Even if he did intend to kill, it doesn’t matter. Bob will have taken an incredible (again, no pun intended) beating by the time he decides to pull out the stops. His family isn’t in danger here. He still has morals. He’s still a good guy.

Bob probably doesn't have superhuman stamina, however I don't plan on the match being prolonged (I'm referring to a match that can stretch to multiple hours or even days), and while Drax does have superhuman speed I'm more than positive when I say Mr. Incredible should be able to tag him as he was able to tag and take down a speedster vehicle that was capable of keeping up with Dash, who's fast enough to run on water.

I’d argue that was more timing than it was speed. Plus those fliers obviously aren’t moving at full speed while circling them. Drax actually caught up to a speeding vehicle trying to escape him.

I will admit curbstomp is somewhat of a exaggeration after seeing what Drax is capable of. However, his fighting credentials consists of him fighting the Omnidroids, multiple armed henchman, and that amped gorilla we were discussing earlier. Moreover, he has the defeated the Omnidroid on two separate occasions, the first of which when he was out of shape and straight out of retirement and the second with the help of his family, and Frozone but it was his idea that led them to the win. What makes defeating the Omnidroid impressive is that it adapts to the opponent it's fighting, as it's programmed with a self learning AI to solve any problem confronted with. Now before you say anything, he did get stomped by the Omnidroid V9 but that's only because he was caught off guard.

But even off guard, all it had to do was throw him around a bit. He might not be taking physical damage but he is feeling its effects. This fight will wear him down. Additionally, it was going to cut his head off. As I’ve already covered, Bob can be cut and his suit (even though Drax has the power and weaponry to cut it) doesn’t cover his neck and head.

[regarding Drax being the better fighter] Based on those scans? The blue alien attacked at the beginning was completely off guard and sucker punched and that green one gave him trouble to a degree punching him twice and even once made him yelp out in pain. If anything, I'd say their equal or maybe not since Bob utilizes both brawling & strategy which I can't say for Drax unless you prove me wrong.

Drax did get the drop on them, but one was a martial arts master, and Drax also showed he could tangle with him and was a master himself. I think you’ll have to prove Bob an equal since he has no training that I know of. Drax is such a good fighter and war tactician Rich Rider had him teach him in preparation for the Annihilation War (Annihilation: Nova #4)

No Caption Provided

The main point was the fight with Massdriver, who physically outclasses Drax. He dislocated her arm and made her pass out. Even with Bob’s great durability, there’s nothing to stop Drax from pulling off the same moves on Bob. Especially with Drax having the advantage of superior speed and combat skill. I’ll skip over the scores of Badoon and UCOT warriors Drax has cut through and leave these impressive combat examples:

  • Scans 1-3) Drax kills the deadliest predator in the universe. (Drax #4)
  • Scans 4-6) Drax takes out an entire Annihilation Wave hive with one of Annihilus’ wives (one of three commanding ships) singlehandedly. The only other to do this was former herald of Galactus Firelord, who had to expel all of his energy to do so. (Annihilation #4)
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

[regarding covering greater distances with leaps] Based on?

The last scans I provided showing him leaping too fast for a TK reaction and leaping a great distance again while fighting Killer Thrill. He covered at least 100 feet and left craters on impact.

I'd argue Drax's durability can only take him so far before Bob taxes it with a great amount (possibly hundreds if not more) of punches or attacks to the face.

The problem is that his durability hasn’t ever been taxed that far. Greater than Bob have tried and failed.

Here’s a brutal fight between Drax and Angela. While she admittedly wasn’t going for the kill, you can see how much damage Drax can take. This still didn’t put him down. (Guardians of Knowhere #1).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Due to the scan limit, I can't post the first part where he punches her a great distance to start the fight.

Here he enjoys taking a blow from Mjolnir wielded by Cancerverse Thor. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #19)

No Caption Provided

Nova Prime while one of the Phalanx Select (infected with the Transmode Virus and under Ultron’s control) can’t put him down. He has to zap his brain finally end it. (Nova Vol. 4 #6)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

My strategy stays same, Bob will uppercut Drax hard enough to send him flying and keep him down for a few seconds, close the distance, and from there proceed to pin him down and deliver multiple blows to the face until Drax falls into unconsciousness.

This is still not a wise strategy. Drax will merely relish the beating and get you in to the range he prefers. My strategy remains the same as well. Destroy.

In conclusion

  • Drax has the striking strength to hurt Bob physically.
  • Drax has the strength and weaponry to pierce Bob’s Super Suit and his skin.
  • Drax has the superior speed and can cover greater distances.
  • Drax has the far superior fighting ability and combat prowess.
  • Drax has far superior stamina and doesn’t require rest, food, drink or even oxygen.
  • Drax has insane durability and resilience, far greater than what Bob can dish out.

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#38 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@normanbates: Eh, it's a little longer than anticipated. I look forward to your response. That was my final so once you get done you can open for votes. Take your time if you need it.

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#39 Posted by Watcher5000 (4100 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#40 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: This should take me 2-3 days to put up. Maybe even one, if I have the time and yeah we'll definitely open for votes after this.

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#41 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart:

Rebuttals

No Caption Provided

What? There’s no way that it’s PIS! It was a written by Bendis!

Anyway, Drax had been talking a lot of trash leading up to the fight and his reputation may have slightly affected Gladiator’s confidence, but the fight itself did end in PIS with Gladiator bringing Drax to space and choking him out, which neither should have any effect since he doesn’t require oxygen and can survive in space just fine. Gladiator (on another occasion) is actually the only person to ever KO Drax. But that still leaves five other instances of Drax beating or doing major damage to fighters of Mr. Incredible’s caliber or higher.

Fair point.

A swollen eye makes a big difference in a fight, ask any boxer. With only sight in one eye his peripheral is blocked and will reduce his combat effectiveness. You can’t react to what you can’t see, and Bob doesn’t have any enhanced senses. Since Drax is a skilled fighter, he can use this to his advantage.

I beg to differ regarding Bob not haven't any enhanced senses. Remember him hearing the faint sound of Bomb Boyage's bomb that was behind a thick wall tens of feet away? Or him detecting his wife in a dark room before she made a sound? You're right when you say you can't react to what you can't see, but that's why he makes up for it with enhanced hearing and the other functioning eye that can still be utilized.

This is actually kind of my point. While the suit is resistant to blunt force, it doesn’t mean it is resistant to piercing, especially from someone of Drax’s strength. As I said, a bullet proof vest can resist a bullet but not a knife.

Actually, it kind of does as it's safe to say the suit can't be cut because It never has.

Drax pierced the hides of the Blood Brothers and cut off Lunatik’s head. These guys have incredible durability easily on par (no pun intended) with and exceeding the super suit. Bob’s suit got holes in it from being jarred around inside of a robot taking impacts.

If you're referring to the fight with the Omnidroid v8 and him taking it down by going inside of it and letting it destroy itself, then no Bob didn't take any damage. In fact, he walked out completely fine.

But even off guard, all it had to do was throw him around a bit. He might not be taking physical damage but he is feeling its effects. This fight will wear him down. Additionally, it was going to cut his head off. As I’ve already covered, Bob can be cut and his suit (even though Drax has the power and weaponry to cut it) doesn’t cover his neck and head.

Where in the scene was he was feeling its effects? He wasn't showing any signs and even if did he wouldn't time to react as the Omnidroid V9 was constantly tossing him around. I disagree on the suit part, once again the suit has shown resistance to bullets which is a good piercing durability feat. Fair point on the skin and neck though.

Drax did get the drop on them, but one was a martial arts master, and Drax also showed he could tangle with him and was a master himself. I think you’ll have to prove Bob an equal since he has no training that I know of. Drax is such a good fighter and war tactician Rich Rider had him teach him in preparation for the Annihilation War (Annihilation: Nova #4)

Bob doesn't have formal training that I know of, however his lack of training is made up by sheer experience as a crime fighting hero.

The main point was the fight with Massdriver, who physically outclasses Drax. He dislocated her arm and made her pass out. Even with Bob’s great durability, there’s nothing to stop Drax from pulling off the same moves on Bob. Especially with Drax having the advantage of superior speed and combat skill. I’ll skip over the scores of Badoon and UCOT warriors Drax has cut through and leave these impressive combat examples:

I don't think Drax can dislocate Bob's arm as he doesn't have a similar skeleton to that of a human and even if he does it's far more durable than your average one as show when the Omnidroid V8 couldn't pull him apart horizontally.

Here he enjoys taking a blow from Mjolnir wielded by Cancerverse Thor. (Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 #19)

You never did establish how powerful this version of Thor was besides harming Drax meaning you never did establish if this Thor was as strong or weaker than the 616 or Ultimate counterpart. So it's a good chance Bob might be as powerful due to the lack of information. Plus, this version of Thor drew blood from Drax, so what's not to say multiple blows from Bob can do the same?

Even if he did intend to kill, it doesn’t matter. Bob will have taken an incredible (again, no pun intended) beating by the time he decides to pull out the stops. His family isn’t in danger here. He still has morals. He’s still a good guy.

Not really regarding the stops part, he did attempt to throw a tree at Syndrome after taking what wasn't really that much of a beating, but more roughed up from the Omnidroid V9.

I’d argue that was more timing than it was speed. Plus those fliers obviously aren’t moving at full speed while circling them. Drax actually caught up to a speeding vehicle trying to escape him.

I'd say it was 50/50 on both the timing and speed part. While, it did require perfect timing to hit the speedster it also took a great amount of agility or combat speed to actually tag the vehicle.

I wasn’t pointing out the old suit got cut, but Bob himself. Yes, the Omnidroid has superhuman strength, but so does Drax. The cut was only minor because it was a glancing blow. When Drax pierces the suit, it will pierce Bob, and it will be a thrust coming from a skilled blade user, not an automation testing its abilities.

Like I said the suit has never been pierced with any type of weapon. Yes it has been damaged by the gorilla, but that's regarding blunt force.

I won’t argue the canonicity of the deleted scene, but comparing a common kitchen utensil to Drax’s blades is like comparing a butter knife to a katana. Drax’s alien blades cut through ridiculously durable opponents and steel. Go take a knife out of your kitchen and see if it can cut through your car door or some rebar. It should also be noted that Bob wouldn't be using his super strength to cut food or he'd be doing damage to his house or alerting guests of his superpowers.

Fair point.

Here’s a brutal fight between Drax and Angela. While she admittedly wasn’t going for the kill, you can see how much damage Drax can take. This still didn’t put him down. (Guardians of Knowhere #1).

That was a feat dealing with piercing damage, not blunt force.

This is still not a wise strategy. Drax will merely relish the beating and get you in to the range he prefers. My strategy remains the same as well. Destroy.

Why not? He won't relish a beating that consists of multiple maybe even hundreds of blows, and he won't do anything in the range he's in as he'll be pinned down. And if that doesn't work Bob can resort to nearby items such as cars, light poles, fire hydrants, etc as weapons and make do from there.

In conclusion.....

  • Bob has the striking power to hurt Drax (eventually) with blows to the head, that could knock him unconscious
  • Bob's current suit has never been cut, even scratched by the lesser of piercing weapons such as bullets and there's no indication that Drax can pierce it because of that
  • Bob has the combat speed & timing to tag Drax in combat
  • What Mr. Incredible lacks in formal training, he makes up for in sheer experience & strategy
  • Bob should be able to take blows from Drax, as he withstood being hit by a speeding train, no sold being stepped on by the multi-tonner Omnidroid V9, multiple and continuous punches from amped Gorillas, etc. Because of this, one could argue Drax doesn't have the damage output to KO Mr. Incredible
  • Bob doesn't have superhuman stamina, or organ function. However, he can prevent this fight from being prolonged by quickly figuring out a way to pin Drax down and land blows to the most vulnerable part of his body via head with blows or near by items that can be used a conventional weapons.
  • Bob has the striking to hurt Drax as well based on his fight with the amped gorilla and Omnidroid's.
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#42 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: Wasn't the best response in the world, but I gave it what I got :P

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#43 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

@normanbates: Sweet. Now, you asked a bunch of questions in there I'm assuming are mostly rhetorical and I already got my last post so I'm not going to respond to them, but I will clarify the one:

[jloneblackheart] Drax pierced the hides of the Blood Brothers and cut off Lunatik’s head. These guys have incredible durability easily on par (no pun intended) with and exceeding the super suit. Bob’s suit got holes in it from being jarred around inside of a robot taking impacts.

[NormanBates] If you're referring to the fight with the Omnidroid v8 and him taking it down by going inside of it and letting it destroy itself, then no Bob didn't take any damage. In fact, he walked out completely fine.

I was referring to the fight with giant-sized Ungorilla while he was in the giant robot from Incredibles #15 from my second post.

This was a lot of fun. It was a pleasure to debate with you. We should do it again sometime.

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#45 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clearing the air. And yeah, it was a pleasure to debate with someone of your skill as well and we should definitely do this again one day.

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#46 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm also very happy to watch all these Incredibles clips. It's actually one of the few movies I have that the damn thieves didn't steal when my house was broken in to. I can't wait for Incredibles 2.

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#47 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Edited by Watcher5000 (4100 posts) - - Show Bio

@jloneblackheart: @normanbates: Ok I read through this and I have to say this was an interesting debate. Props to you both.That said I am going to have to go with @jloneblackheart.I think he proved that Drax was clearly the faster and more durable fighter in this match, and was able to take down Mr.Incredible with his knives.@normanbates Did good in showing Mr.Incredible was the stronger fighter but didn't convince me, in that Mr.Incredible could actually knock out Drax given the feats he has.I also don't agree that just because the type of super suit Mr.Incredible has is able to tank bullets, means it could take Drax's space knives which can cut through much tougher things.Still this was a good debate and you both should be proud.

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#49 Posted by jloneblackheart (8268 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by NormanBates (2201 posts) - - Show Bio
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