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#1 Edited by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio
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Rules

  • Monster Trio are canon versions
  • Meliodas is canon version
  • Everyone is morals off
  • Everyone is current versions
  • starting distance:30 meters
  • Full Counter works on M3 Energy type attacks
  • Takes place on an empty, indestructible Mountain
  • This is a CaV, don't state your opinion on the match and vote based on who you fought debated better

Does this look good @shirso?

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#2 Edited by jardinain2 (4501 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmm... tag I guess.

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#3 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Cool. I checked some of Mel's feats, the guy is a beast. This will be quite a tough one I guess.

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#4 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

......T4V.......

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#6 Posted by jardinain2 (4501 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: I do, occasionally. I like the anime more though.

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#7 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: i'll open, it's only fair considering i probably have the advantage in this matchup.

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#8 Edited by DeathHero61 (15464 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag I guess, I kind of wanted to do this when Meliodas got more feats.

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#9 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by darthjhawk (1352 posts) - - Show Bio

Gomu Gomu Diable 360 Red Hawk Mutton Poundo Hou Gatling GO!!!!

vs

REVENGE COUNTER!

T4V tho this looks fun.

Online
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#11 Edited by God_Vulcan (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag, though it's undecided whether I'll vote

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#12 Edited by NakkLeVaar_1A (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin said:
  • Meliodas is canon version
  • Everyone is current versions

Meliodas sets 3 oneshots..... Nah, that's too fat for them.. A common oneshot for all the trio..

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#13 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by NakkLeVaar_1A (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: Idk what means CaV, but you saw meliodas from last chapters? saw?!

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#15 Edited by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nakklevaar_1a: It means Challenge a Viner, it's a debate between two users. So your opinion is unnecessary before the votes.

It's even wrote in the OP, so delete your post.

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#16 Posted by vooon (352 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#17 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dragons Sin of Wrath: Meliodas

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Bio

Meliodas「メリオダス」 is the captain of the Seven Deadly Sinsand the Dragon's Sin of Wrath. He is the owner of the renowned tavern Boar Hat, and the main protagonist of the series. His Sacred Treasure is the Demon SwordLostvayne and his inherent power is Full Counter. He is also the former leader of the Ten Commandments, a former member of Stigma, and the Demon King's oldest son.

Needed Terminology(please read)

Power Level: In Seven Deadly Sins power levels are represented as a total number, the total being combined from three categories: magic, strength, and spirit. The overall power level is not a measure of who definitely wins a battle, it's just a guide to who's more likely to win. For example, someone with a relatively low power level but super hax magic can beat someone with a high power level if they don't have a good way to fight. The spirit category is a measure of composure in battle, willpower, etc. Magic and strength are self-explanatory.

I'll be using these to scale Meliodas from his weaker incarnations. This works because Meliodas power likely increased linearly(or more, so i'm going to be using the bare minimum).

For reference later on, Meliodas current power level is at least 120,000,more likely 150,000+ based on his rather casual defeat of Escanor in a physical and magical battle, who's own power level was 114,00.

Sacred Treasure: In this manga a character will not be using the full amount of power at their disposal unless they are equipped with a good weapon. King explains it pretty well. So someone could have a strength level of, for example, 100, but if they're just swinging a wooden sword rather than a legitimate one then their full 100 strength level really doesn't matter because their blows will only be hitting their opponents with, arbitrarily, 25 strength for each blow. King's explanation accounts for the massive boost in power Meliodas obtains when using his Sacred Treasure rather than a good, if worn out, sword, despite his power level not changing because of getting it back.

This matters because many of Meliodas earlier feats are performed without said Sacred Treasure, meaning they're even more impressive in comparison.

Strength

Honestly, Meliodas far surpasses any of the monster trio in physical abilities, as i will prove here, which will be his key to victory.

Meliodas breaks a large dungeon as the side-effect of his arm-wrestling contest with Ban. Additionaly, this was at the start of the series, back when his power level was 3370, so, at least 40x weaker than current! Also, the Dungeon was reinforced by a powerful spell, making this feat even more impressive.

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The dungeon is actually huge as well, easily visible as a large mass from 8 miles away. Looking at the landscape, it's at least Very Large Hill sized, more probably small Mountain sized.

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Meliodas also lacked his sacred treasure when performing this feat, making it even more impressive!

Another ridiculous feat from Mel is when he split a large Hill in half with just the shockwave of him swinging a twig(massively inferior to his sacred treasure). This was also back when he had a power level of 3370(i.e 40x weaker!)

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He has also caused a huge shockwave, around town sized, simply by lightly swinging his broken sword-hilt(also power level of 3370).

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Last but not least, heres proof he can effectively use this power in combat. Here he beats around Galand(mountain+ durability via taking several of 3370 power level Meliodases strikes without any damage).

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Galan can easily tank 3370 power level Meliodas' hits without a scratch, even while he is using his sacred treasure and demon mark(amps his power).

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That should be enough to prove current Meliodas strength far surpasses any of the Monster Trio's.

Durability

The Monster Trio will be hard pressed to even hurt Meliodas.

Meliodas while he had a power level of 32,250(weaker than current) tanked this blast from Gloxinia, which travelled many kilometres away and dwarfed a mountain with it's explosion.

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He also tanked hits from Diane back when he had a power level of 3,370, who had a strength level of only 10 below Meliodas while in a weaker form. This proves Meliodas can tank hits from people equal to himself in strength, so multi-mountain+ as proven in the above section.

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More proof of Meliodas's ridiculous durability should hardly be required, but just in case, here he tanks hits from someone who could shake the entirety of the massive Dungeon mentioned above with one punch. This was also back when his power level was about 40x weaker.

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This should be enough, as i've proven Meliodas can tank hits from people of the same strength as he(multi-mountain+) and energy attacks on that level as well, while in a weaker form. He will take almost no damage from the M3's attacks.

Speed

Meliodas is faster than the M3, though he can't blitz them.

Here King Arthur confirms he's casually supersonic back when he was 40x weaker, proving Meliodas massively hypersonic speeds.

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Then there's also this, which proves Meliodas speed surpasses lightning back when his power level was 3370.

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Dozen examples in the Gilthunder fight we see lightning flashes from the sky countered by Meliodas easily, every time. One statement, scan 7, stated its a legit lightning bolt that Meliodas catches with his finger in that attack.

That is base speed. Now lets look at Galan....

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Galan is so fast, that he seems to dispear in his movement. All these Massivly Hypersonic Seven Deadly Sins thought Merlin BFR him, when in reality he moved too fast for the Instant spell to nail him. He cleared seven miles in a speed too fast for the already MHS character to see, this proves the Galan's speed >>lightning.

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In this whole fight, Meliodas dodges every super speed attack by Galan, and walks slowly on as if never bothered. Then when he does fight, its faster than Galan, who by scaling already blitz weaker Mel ten time over, can perceive.

This puts Mel at a ridiculous amount beyond lightning speed and adding to that, this Mel's speed is still way below current Mel's!!

The Meliodas above was blitzed by Estarossa here, he moves FTE to Meliodas, moving from several meters away to Meliodas, before he can swing his sword.

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Then, this Estarossa is blitzed by Escanor.

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Escanor is later thoroughly outsped by Mel.

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This puts Mel, so far above lightning(Mach 286), it's not even funny. Based on this, i'd honesty have Mel in the relativistic ranges of speed, far above the M3.

This is enough to prove the M3 are far outmatched in this regard.

Special Abilities

Lostvayne Cloning

Meliodas can clone himself using his sword. The only downside is that the clones only have a fraction of his own strength. With 1 clone it's half his original strength, with 2 a quarter, etc.

He has shown the ability to make up to 4 clones.

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Their purpose in this fight is to fight each of the M3 1V1. Meliodas himself will fight Luffy, while his clones distract Sanji and Zoro. Considering his clones power levels would be at 30,000+ if he used 2, they will still be able to replicate most of the feats i showed above, placing them at Mountain+ DC and Durability and Lightning+ speed, easily enough to hold off Zoro and Sanji long enough for the original to stomp Luffy and join his clones in beating the others.

Revenge Counter

Revenge Counter「リベンジ・カウンター Ribenji Kauntā」: Meliodas turns off his abilities so that he can take damage. After Meliodas has taken enough damage, he charges his blade with power and strikes his enemy with it. This is considered to be Meliodas' ultimate attack and has an average survival rate of 0.2%.

This technique will probably not be necessary, but incase he's on the losing end of the fight he'll be able to purposely take the M3's attacks and counter with far greater than normal power. THE DIFFERENCE IS ASTOUNDING.

For example, Meliodas was inferior to Hendrickson interns of power etc., but his Revenge Counter could defeat the latter in a single blow!

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This technique will almost surely work on the M3 as their attacks shouldn't be enough to kill Meliodas with all that regeneration of his. If he's in a pinch(won't happen, just in case, he can use this attack to destroy the M3's chances at victory.

Conclusion

  • Meliodas is far too strong, durable and fast for the M3.
  • Meliodas has special techniques that will make this battle even easier for him to win
  • Meliodas wins decisively

your turn @shirso, i decided to do this quickly cause i have a lot of time right now.

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#18 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@nakklevaar_1a: It means Challenge a Viner, it's a debate between two users. So your opinion is unnecessary before the votes.

It's even wrote in the OP, so delete your post.

thanks for that.

But yeah, please delete your post nakk

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#19 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: That was quick. I will try and get one up over the weekend.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@hittheassasin: That was quick. I will try and get one up over the weekend.

yeah, that'd be cool. No need to rush though.

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#22 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

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Bio

The three strongest members of the Straw Hat Pirate crew, Straw Hat Luffy the captain, Pirate Hunter Roronoa Zoro, the swordsman and Black Foot Sanji, the chef. These three have so inhumane strength (even by One Piece's already ridiculous standards!) that the rest of the crew have dubbed them the "Monster Trio".

The opener's purpose will mostly be for comparing Mel's physicals to the Trio's. Detailed strategies will follow subsequently.

Strength

Honestly, Meliodas far surpasses any of the monster trio in physical abilities, as i will prove here, which will be his key to victory.

Interesting, since One Piece is generally considered to be the physically strongest verse amongst the HST, so this is quite a bold claim, but let's see a few of Mel's feats.

Meliodas breaks a large dungeon as the side-effect of his arm-wrestling contest with Ban. Additionaly, this was at the start of the series, back when his power level was 3370, so, at least 40x weaker than current! Also, the Dungeon was reinforced by a powerful spell, making this feat even more impressive.

This is one of his earliest feats, and done jointly with Ban. Still pretty cool.

The dungeon is actually huge as well, easily visible as a large mass from 8 miles away. Looking at the landscape, it's at least Very Large Hill sized, more probably small Mountain sized.

Here I disagree with you. For one, the dungeon is constructed on much higher ground than Dalmary town, which gives it better visibility.

Secondly, the Dungeon itself is hardly as big as you think. I can take that its bigger than average skyscrapers, maybe as big as a small city block if we are being generous, but mountain sized is pushing it a lot.

For example, here's a scan of a few Weird Fang Knights talking in front of the dungeon, which gives a better sense of scale (bottom right panel).

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As you can see, its really not much larger than your average skyscraper to be honest.

In response to this, I'd say that all 3 of the trio have been one shotting Sea Kings, which are building sized monsters right from the start of the series.

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Some assorted scans of M3 members one shotting Sea Kings.

A little further, and we get a feat from Luffy that absolutely blows the Baste Dungeon busting one out of the water.

Alabasta saga Luffy punches Crocodile through several meters of solid bedrock and crumbles a city block in the process.

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Keep in mind this was a pre skip, pre gears Luffy who was heavily injured, bleeding, poisoned and exhausted at that point. Also his attack had to first overcome Crocodile's sand armor, making this feat even more impressive.

Another ridiculous feat from Mel is when he split a large Hill in half with just the shockwave of him swinging a twig(massively inferior to his sacred treasure). This was also back when he had a power level of 3370(i.e 40x weaker!)

While doing that with a twig is indeed impressive, objectively speaking, he showed about small hill level cutting power in that scan. My own swordsman, Zoro has cutting feats pre skip that are far superior.

Easily cuts through the cross section of an absolutely ginormous beanstalk.

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Just notice how Zoro is a speck compared to the stalk. This incidentally also stacks up as a nice speed feat, as we see Zoro outrunning Enel's lightning bolts.

One of his best feats pre skip, one of his joint attacks with Luffy manages to blast a hole through a massive tsunami wave large enough for a train to pass through.

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Again keep in mind that the combined heavy artillery fire of the Franky family and Galley-La company were basically doing nothing to the wave.

Now I know you are going to say that that was a weaker Mel without his sacred treasure, but then again even I am going purely by pre skip feats right now.

He has also caused a huge shockwave, around town sized, simply by lightly swinging his broken sword-hilt(also power level of 3370).

Okay, now you are highballing Mel's feats a little.

First of all, that feat is unquantifiable as hell, because not only was that fodder knight not even KO'd by the attack, but there's no way to gauge how large the blast even was. And that is Meliodas from the very first chapter. As powerful as the guy surely is, I seriously doubt he was a town buster at this early stage.

Secondly, creating that shockwave has nothing to do with Mel's own physical strength, because he was using his Full Counter ability which reflects back an attack amplified many many times. Its even explicitly mentioned by his opponent just a few pages back.

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Its a good feat of his hax, but has little to do with his raw strength actually.

Last but not least, heres proof he can effectively use this power in combat. Here he beats around Galand(mountain+ durability via taking several of 3370 power level Meliodases strikes without any damage).

3370 power level Mel has no feats putting him remotely at mountain lvl, he is city block lvl at best going by his joint feat with Ban, but no more. Alabasta saga M3 surpasses every strength feat you have shown for Mel thus far, with Luffy in particular being considerably ahead owing to the conditions under which he performed his own block busting feat (he was tired, mortally wounded and poisoned).

Before closing this section, here's a feat for Sanji, traditionally considered the weakest among the M3, which proves beyond doubt that even the pre skip M3, while hardly operating at their best are touching city lvl attack potency.

In the Thriller Bark arc, Sanji deflects Oars' Bazooka with a single kick.

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Some context, Oars is a giant who had Luffy's exact powers, stats and skills courtsey of having Luffy's shadow (this is not speculation or statements, that's literally the entire plot of the arc).

For reference, here's how Oars is wrt normal humans.

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Now Luffy was already city block lvl + about 3 arcs prior to this, and could fight at massively hypersonic speeds. Now put that speed and strength in a giant body dwarfing even Diane, and Sanji deflecting Oars attack becomes easily a lot more impressive than whatever you have shown for Mel thus far.

Speed

A lot of scaling in this section I see.

Here King Arthur confirms he's casually supersonic back when he was 40x weaker, proving Meliodas massively hypersonic speeds.

Cool, I guess. In any case, Luffy has been tagging massively FTE opponents, e.g: like Bellamy, even before he developed Gears.

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Supersonic speeds are low tier in One Piece, honestly.

back when he was 40x weaker, proving Meliodas massively hypersonic speeds.

I have a question here, does the power levels also scale to speed, because the only categories you mentioned were magic, strength and spirit (your power level link is broken bte).

Dozen examples in the Gilthunder fight we see lightning flashes from the sky countered by Meliodas easily, every time. One statement, scan 7, stated its a legit lightning bolt that Meliodas catches with his finger in that attack.

Any proof that Gilthunder's attacks are indeed as fast as natural lightning?

Not that it matters, because the M3 have very similar feats in the Skypiea arc, when they fought Enel, a guy literally made of lightning.

For example, here Luffy catches a point blank attack from Enel. According to Enel, the attack was essentially a lightning based attack given physical form (scan 1).

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That's pretty similar to Mel catching Gilthunder's attack.

I already showed Zoro outrunning thunder bolts from the sky.

This is no outlier, because 2 arcs later, during Enies Lobby, we see Kalifa, the weakest member of CP9, dodge lightning from Nami's clima tact. Nami's lighting is as close to natural lightning as you will get in most series, because it is created from actual thunder clouds.

And Kalifa is fodder to the likes of Jabra, Kaku or Rob Lucci (the 3 strongest members of CP9), whom the M3 fought. So if we consider Mel to be a lightning timer based on his feats against Gilt, then so are the M3 and way early in the series.

Galan is so fast, that he seems to dispear in his movement. All these Massivly Hypersonic Seven Deadly Sins thought Merlin BFR him, when in reality he moved too fast for the Instant spell to nail him. He cleared seven miles in a speed too fast for the already MHS character to see, this proves the Galan's speed >>lightning.

This is mostly a travel speed feat tbh. And even here, Luffy has something which can compete.

Luffy, in base form, outruns a large liquid explosion where the explosives were sticking to his body.

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Outrunning a point blank explosion that massive is as good as Galan's feat imo.

In this whole fight, Meliodas dodges every super speed attack by Galan, and walks slowly on as if never bothered. Then when he does fight, its faster than Galan, who by scaling already blitz weaker Mel ten time over, can perceive.

You have shown only 1 speed feat for Galan, and that is related to travel, not combat speed, so this reasoning is faulty.

This puts Mel, so far above lightning(Mach 286), it's not even funny. Based on this, i'd honesty have Mel in the relativistic ranges of speed, far above the M3.

This is enough to prove the M3 are far outmatched in this regard.

Okay, that's fairly big talk for someone who has only 2 speed feats shown thus far that do not depend on scaling. You are basing your entire argument on the basis that Gilthunder's attacks are as fast as natural lightning, and on the faulty logic of equating Galan's travel speed as combat speed.

By that logic, the M3 should be lightning timers as well by the end of the Skypiea arc (since they reacted to Enel's attacks), and so should be more or less even speed wise with Mel after all the powerups and time skip they went through.

I, on the other hand, have presented only concrete quantifiable feats thus far, all of which are, barring faulty scaling, as good as anything Mel has shown.

But don't worry, I have something up my sleeve which would substantially balance the scales. Meet...

Gear 4

Luffy's first real power up after the time-skip, he first used it against the Warlord Donquixote Doflamingo. With some creative use of his Gomu-Gomu powers combined with Haki, it exponentially boosts Luffy's stats, giving him the speed of Gear 2 and the strength of Gear 3, allows to "fly" (though its more like he glides) and boosts Luffy's resistance to any form of cutting attacks considerably.

Here's a sample of Gear 4's strength.

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As you can see, Gear 4's King Kong gun folds the entire city of Dressrosa in half just by the impact of Doflamingo colliding. This is again a heavily exhausted, out of haki Luffy, whose punch first had to overcome Doflamingo's God's Thread and Spider's Web, Doffy's strongest offensive and defensive techniques respectively.

So Gear 4 is easily Multi City level+ to possibly approaching island lvl in striking power. Even Mel would be seriously messed up if Luffy can land a KKG.

And yeah, most of Luffy's body is coated in haki whilst still retaining its rubbery nature in Gear 4. This gives Luffy tremendous durability against both blunt force as well as cutting and piercing attacks.

Luffy Gear 4 vs Doflamingo

After going Gear 4 Luffy outright no sells Doflamingo's Haki infused kick (one of Doflamingo's normal kicks cut through several towers just by air pressure) and his strings (which can cut through meteorites like wet tissue paper), so Luffy's so called ":vulnerability" to piercing attacks is virtually non-existent in Gear 4.

As for speed, Luffy in this form was effortlessly blitzing Doflamingo all over the place, when Gear 2 Luffy (massively hypersonic who outran a liquid explosion) and Trafalgar Law (who sliced apart a point blank meteorite) could barely keep up in speed with Doflamingo.

One of G4's most impressive feats, it was able to blind side and blitz Doflamingo from over a city away.

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Keep in mind Doflamingo can slice apart meteorites at point blank range and was too fast for even massively hypersonic extreme hax characters like Trafalgar Law.

Knowing how fast Doffy is, I would say G4 is certainly more than fast enough to keep up with Mel, with the added advantage of flight and insane range.

Mel's durability vs M3's DC

Meliodas while he had a power level of 32,250(weaker than current) tanked this blast from Gloxinia, which travelled many kilometres away and dwarfed a mountain with it's explosion.

Can I see a scan showing exactly how much damage this attack did? I can see it bowing off the tops of a few mountains but the M3 are well above mountain lvl at this point, and were approaching it even pre skip I'd say.

This is also energy durability while the M3 relies exclusively on physicals.

He also tanked hits from Diane back when he had a power level of 3,370, who had a strength level of only 10 below Meliodas while in a weaker form. This proves Meliodas can tank hits from people equal to himself in strength, so multi-mountain+ as proven in the above section.

I can't really accept without more proof that beginning of series Meliodas was a legit mountain buster. In terms of feats, even Alabasta saga Luffy is better.

More proof of Meliodas's ridiculous durability should hardly be required, but just in case, here he tanks hits from someone who could shake the entirety of the massive Dungeon mentioned above with one punch. This was also back when his power level was about 40x weaker.

Baste Dungeon is nowhere as large as a mountain, nor was that guy strong enough to destroy the dungeon. This is a multi building lvl durability feat at best.

Also, you have yet to show any cutting or heat resistance feats for Mel, which is what Zoro and Sanji will be coming at him with. From what I have seen, Mel isn't particularly resistant to cutting damage.

M3's durability vs Mel's DC

So far from feats shown, Mel seems to have about city block lvl blunt force striking and small hill level cutting potency.

First of all, Luffy is completely immune to any kinds of blunt and concussive force, and in G4 has haki capable of no selling Doffy's strings (Doffy's strings are incredibly tough and sharp, his bird cage could not be cut by the likes of Zoro and Fujitora and would have cleaved through Dressrosa in time).

As for Zoro and Sanji, they have incredible damage soak and pain tolerance.

E.g: Both of them tanked Kuma's Ursus Shock, an island wide explosion.

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Zoro's pain tolerance in particular is just ridiculous.

I think everyone knows of this feat by now, at the climax of Thriller Bark, Zoro takes all the pain and damage sustained by Luffy during his fights, in addition to all the damage that Zoro had himself received throughout the arc, and survives.

In a nutshell, even though Zoro and Sanji would definitely take some damage from Mel's attacks, their insane pain tolerance would keep them in the fight long enough to finish Mel off.

Luffy, on the other hand, can just no sell most of Mel's attacks on account of his rubbery nature, and mitigate any cutting attacks with Armament Haki.

Another asset that would help the M3 balance out speed is...

Observation Haki

This is basically very high level precognition.

Pre skip, this allowed Luffy to avoid Mihawk's potentially fatal attack Note that his was a Luffy entirely untrained in the use of Haki.

Post skip it has allowed Luffy to casually dodge lasers from a Pacifista (he even calls them slow), dodge a bullet after it has been fired at point blank range, and casually dance through Hody's barrage of water bullets(each of these bullets can level city blocks and cross an island in seconds).

Here's another good showing of Observation Haki.

Hakuba, a demon which awakens when its host Cavendish falls asleep,is ridiculously fast and could blitz and clear the entire D-Block (which all consisted of New World veterans) in seconds.

Only Rebecca, who is a relatively weak Haki user compared to the top tiers like M3, could react to Hakuba and outlast him.

Here's the full fight.

In summary, Observation Haki further evens out whatever little speed advantage Mel might possibly have.

Countering your strategy

Cloning

Considering his clones power levels would be at 30,000+ if he used 2, they will still be able to replicate most of the feats i showed above, placing them at Mountain+ DC and Durability and Lightning+ speed, easily enough to hold off Zoro and Sanji long enough for the original to stomp Luffy and join his clones in beating the others.

I have yet to see a single scan of even true Mel legit busting a mountain, and your entire speed argument depends on scaling off Gilthunder.

That doesn't matter though, as I have shown, the pre skip M3 were at city/mountain lvl attack potency, and were already lightning timers as far back as Skypiea, the post skip M3 is on a whole different level. So if Mel's clones only have mountain lvl durability, they are gonna get one shotted real fast.

Meliodas himself will fight Luffy, while his clones distract Sanji and Zoro.

I doubt Mel's clones would last long against Zoro and Sanji, but this issue can be also be easily circumvented if Luffy goes G4 from the onset and just blitzes and one shots the 2 clones (G4 can quite easily do this).

Strategy

For taking Mel down, it makes sense for Luffy to go G4 right from the start. It does have a limited window, but even an exhausted Luffy who had already used up a lot of his haki could maintain G4 and fight evenly against Doflamingo's Awakening for about half an hour, so I think it would be enough for the purpose of this fight.

Besides Luffy has already started to show more control over G4. He fought Cracker 12 hours straight in G4 and against very powerful opponents like Big Mom, it has been his go to move.

Once he goes G4, he easily blitzes and one shots Mel's clones, and from there, the M3 gang up on the true Mel. A tentative plan of action can be G4 Luffy and Sanji grapples and holds him down, while Zoro drives a sword through his heart or chops his head off.

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#23 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@hittheassasin: Opener's up.

pretty nice, but cut the lowballing....

City Block durability and Hill level potency....really...

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#25 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

City Block durability and Hill level potency....really...

I ain't saying Mel is at that level because I know he has much better feats. I am just giving my 2 cents on what has been shown thus far, most of which btw are from beginning of series Mel.

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#26 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Your posts pretty long, but ill have a counter up by the weekend for sure, possible earlier.

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#27 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

Counter 1: Physicals and Strategies

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Strength

Interesting, since One Piece is generally considered to be the physically strongest verse amongst the HST, so this is quite a bold claim, but let's see a few of Mel's feats.

Meh, Naruto's god tiers are better, but otherwise, i'd tend to agree.

This is one of his earliest feats, and done jointly with Ban. Still pretty cool.

That's the point. As already stated, power level wise Mel increased at least 30-40x since then, the scaling is what makes this feat impressive.

As for Ban, that doesn't really matter considering Ban is <<<<Meliodas in strength, even as of this point.

Meliodas overpowers Ban despite the fact that a good portion of his strength had been stolen by Ban(read: a depowered Meliodas > an amped Ban in strength)

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Here I disagree with you. For one, the dungeon is constructed on much higher ground than Dalmary town, which gives it better visibility.

Fair enough, but, if you look in the scan, it's still significantly taller than the Hills surrounding it, essentially dwarfing them.

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Secondly, the Dungeon itself is hardly as big as you think. I can take that its bigger than average skyscrapers, maybe as big as a small city block if we are being generous, but mountain sized is pushing it a lot.

Meh, it seems to vary in size, as happens often with structures in fiction, the author obviously can't draw them completely to scale. In one scan it dwarfs Hills, including the one that's in the back of your scan behind Golgius, in others it isn't that big.

With high-end feats it's small Mountain sized.

With low-end it's skyscraper.

For example, here's a scan of a few Weird Fang Knights talking in front of the dungeon, which gives a better sense of scale (bottom right panel).

Well, their a considerable amount away from the Dungeon and at a certain distance even Mountains look small.

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As you can see, its really not much larger than your average skyscraper to be honest.

As said above this scan depicts it smaller than some others, honestly, it's just lack of consistency in artworks so i'd say it's best to meet at the mid way point and say it's large City Block size.

Besides, that's not even what makes the feat so impressive. It's impressive because the destruction was caused by the mere side-effect of an arm wrestling contest(it's not like it was there intention or goal to destroy the Dungeon, yet they did so anyway, thus the effect of an actual punch meant to destroy would be much, much higher), despite the fact that an extremely powerful spell that has durability way above town level(to the point where 10 town level beings couldn't destroy it) was reinforcing it, and they still destroyed it effortlessly. When you take into account the scaling to current versions this easily puts Meliodas at Mountain+ level.

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In response to this, I'd say that all 3 of the trio have been one shotting Sea Kings, which are building sized monsters right from the start of the series.

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Those are at best small building size, Luffy and co. are clearly visible next to them, besides, it not like Luffy vaporised or actually fully destroyed there bodies so this is not actually a quantifiable DC/Power feat.

A little further, and we get a feat from Luffy that absolutely blows the Baste Dungeon busting one out of the water.

Alabasta saga Luffy punches Crocodile through several meters of solid bedrock and crumbles a city block in the process.

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It doesn't "absolutely blow it out of the water", it's solidly inferior. First off, Luffy took a lot of full power punches to do this, looking at the picture and the speeds Luffy operates at, even at this stage in the show, it's solidly 50 hits that did this damage, and looking at how many Buildings that was and the size of them, it's still only Small City Block level. This means you showed a feat that took took Luffy 50+ full power punches and was still only small City Block level... This doesn't compare to Meliodas's feat at all....

Keep in mind this was a pre skip, pre gears Luffy who was heavily injured, bleeding, poisoned and exhausted at that point. Also his attack had to first overcome Crocodile's sand armor, making this feat even more impressive.

Yeah, but it sure seems as if Luffy was delivering attacks at his full power considering the amount of damage they do to Crocodile, how he's screaming etc.

This scan does not give the indication that Luffy was weakened, like, at all.

While doing that with a twig is indeed impressive, objectively speaking, he showed about small hill level cutting power in that scan. My own swordsman, Zoro has cutting feats pre skip that are far superior.

Lol at this. Yes, it's a hill level cutting feat but there are 3 huge things your leaving out here.

1) This was done with a twig, which is << a Sword, which in turn is << Mel's sacred treasure.

Just for comparison, Meliodas with a basic sword couldldn't even break Albion's skin...

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But, with his Sacred Treasure he can casually cut said Monsters arm into pieces, with ease no less.

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Going from being unable to break the skin to cutting right through it's arm is undoubtedly a massive increase(10x, minimum), then considering the difference between a regular ass twig and a sharp, well crafted sword, the difference is ridiculous(30x, once again, bare minimum).

2)This was just the shockwave of his swing, it's not like he actually hit it, it was the air pressure of his swing with a twig that did this, a huge, huge difference.

3) This Meliodas is incredibly weaker than current.

Considering the first 2 points this honestly places PL:3370 Meliodas at Mountain+ level, bare minimum and he increases massively.

Easily cuts through the cross section of an absolutely ginormous beanstalk.

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Just notice how Zoro is a speck compared to the stalk. This incidentally also stacks up as a nice speed feat, as we see Zoro outrunning Enel's lightning bolts.

You can't be serious....

Comparing Zoro's size to the piece he cut makes it quite obvious the piece he cut is small building level at best, far smaller than the hill Meliodas split, not even considering Meliodas did it with the shockwave while using a twig.

One of his best feats pre skip, one of his joint attacks with Luffy manages to blast a hole through a massive tsunami wave large enough for a train to pass through.

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Entirely unimpressive, blasting a Skyscraper size hole in a wave of water with 2 people no less.... you'd be hard pressed to prove that's Skyscraper level, yet alone on the level Mel operates on.

You'll have to do better than showing me these Building-

Again keep in mind that the combined heavy artillery fire of the Franky family and Galley-La company were basically doing nothing to the wave.

That just means they're artillery is shit, unless you're suggesting the water is somehow more durable....lol

Now I know you are going to say that that was a weaker Mel without his sacred treasure, but then again even I am going purely by pre skip feats right now.

Yeah no, that doesn't equate at all considering i too am only using early series Meliodas feats.

Okay, now you are highballing Mel's feats a little.

Not really.

First of all, that feat is unquantifiable as hell, because not only was that fodder knight not even KO'd by the attack, but there's no way to gauge how large the blast even was. And that is Meliodas from the very first chapter. As powerful as the guy surely is, I seriously doubt he was a town buster at this early stage.

Well, if you compare the size of the blast to the nearby Hill i was clearly very large, though Town level is a bit of an exaggeration.

Secondly, creating that shockwave has nothing to do with Mel's own physical strength, because he was using his Full Counter ability which reflects back an attack amplified many many times. Its even explicitly mentioned by his opponent just a few pages back.

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Its a good feat of his hax, but has little to do with his raw strength actually.

He was using full counter there yeah, but there's no proof the attack later on was full counter. Anyway, i'll just concede this one because it's hardly relevant anyway, Meliodas has way better feats anyway.

3370 power level Mel has no feats putting him remotely at mountain lvl, he is city block lvl at best going by his joint feat with Ban, but no more. Alabasta saga M3 surpasses every strength feat you have shown for Mel thus far, with Luffy in particular being considerably ahead owing to the conditions under which he performed his own block busting feat (he was tired, mortally wounded and poisoned).

Yeah, no. That Mel could already bust a hill with the mere shockwave of a twig, which is <<<< his sacred treasure, and bust a city block sized structure that was reinforced with a town++ level spell casually and without trying. Also, he clearly performs at Mountain level with Lostvayne looking at how he can casually cut Albion's arm into slices.

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From right to left.

For reference, Albion was able to tank City Block+ level Meliodas attacks without them even breaking his skin.

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Adding that to Albion's sheer size shown in these scans,

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proves Meliodas is definitely Mountain+ level.

Galan blocked an attack from him in his demon form, who's power level was actually 4400 without a scratch. This clearly puts Galan's durability at Mountain+ - Multi-Mountain level. Meliodas later curb stomps and cuts him up casually without his demon power and Meliodas got significantly stronger later.

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Before closing this section, here's a feat for Sanji, traditionally considered the weakest among the M3, which proves beyond doubt that even the pre skip M3, while hardly operating at their best are touching city lvl attack potency.

I'd argue pre=skip M3 are town level at best, you'll have to use post-skip feats to hold up here.

In the Thriller Bark arc, Sanji deflects Oars' Bazooka with a single kick.

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Some context, Oars is a giant who had Luffy's exact powers, stats and skills courtsey of having Luffy's shadow (this is not speculation or statements, that's literally the entire plot of the arc).

Ok, so Sanji deflects a casual Bazooka from Oars using his full power and that's impressive.....how exactly?

The best (high end) feats you've shown thus far have Luffy at City Block level with 50+ punches so this means Sanji is sub-City Block level.....

Now, before you say Gears upgrade, where was it stated that Oars had Luffy's gear powers? Those are techniques that can only be performed using Luffy's body and have a special "look" that can be clearly identified, so the chances are Oars doesn't possess Luffy's gear powers, thus putting him at City Block level(Luffys base improved since the crocodile incident and Oars is Base Luffy+ his own powers, so he should be City Block level in one punch). This means, Sanji is now City Block level, hurray, it still doesn't remotely compare to even 3370 Meliodas.

For reference, here's how Oars is wrt normal humans.

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Now Luffy was already city block lvl + about 3 arcs prior to this, and could fight at massively hypersonic speeds. Now put that speed and strength in a giant body dwarfing even Diane, and Sanji deflecting Oars attack becomes easily a lot more impressive than whatever you have shown for Mel thus far.

Yeah, no. Luffy was City Block level only with 50+ punches and full power, granted he improved since then and adding Oars strength to Luffy's leads to to believe he is in fact City Block+ level, meaning Sanji is also at that level.

However, that doesn't even compare to Mel who showcases this level of power casually and as a side effect of his attacks etc.

Now, for some new feats actually showing Mel's powers!

Meliodas in his most powerful mode, Assault form otherwise known as 10 Commandments Era Meliodas, was capable of one-shotting Escanor while holding back no less.

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This is the same Escanor(probably more powerful actually) that tanked Galans strike literally without any damage.

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The mere aftershock(most of the force was absorbed by Escanors body) was Mountain sized and cut the tops of of Large Hills many miles away and was felt by Meliodas and Merlin(also many miles away). Additionally, scaling from 3370 Mel(already atleast City Level) also puts Galan at Mountain level considering he casually overpowered said Meliodas.

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Honestly, Meliodas is multi-mountain level in attack potency and can destroy a M3 in a few blows.

Speed

A lot of scaling in this section I see.

Yeah, Mel isn't exactly swimming in speed feats.

Cool, I guess. In any case, Luffy has been tagging massively FTE opponents, e.g: like Bellamy, even before he developed Gears.

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My point was mainly to prove that even BOS Mel is easily supersonic and current should thus be on par with even Gear 4 Luffy.

Supersonic speeds are low tier in One Piece, honestly.

Same with NNT honestly.

I have a question here, does the power levels also scale to speed, because the only categories you mentioned were magic, strength and spirit (your power level link is broken bte).

It does looking as how powerlevel 4400 Meliodas was speed blitzed by Galan but power level 32,250 Meliodas speed blitzed him back.

Any proof that Gilthunder's attacks are indeed as fast as natural lightning?

Being stated as a literal lightning bolt and the fact that only Meliodas was able to react to them at that point in time.

Not that it matters, because the M3 have very similar feats in the Skypiea arc, when they fought Enel, a guy literally made of lightning.

Enels lightning speed is dubious at best looking as how Nami was able to react to him and fodder where able to react to them on numerous occasions, even in one of your scans actually.

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Enel isn't lightning speed, just as little as Kizaru is LS.

For example, here Luffy catches a point blank attack from Enel. According to Enel, the attack was essentially a lightning based attack given physical form (scan 1).

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Well, Enel is wrong, looking at how Nami and Fodder where able to react to him moving and because, while his lightning bolts may be lightning speed, his physical attacks certainly aren't, just like with Kizaru essentially.

That's pretty similar to Mel catching Gilthunder's attack.

Except Enel physical attacks aren't lightning speed looking as to how Devil Fruits users physical speed have been shown as =/= to their elements speed, like Kizaru. Unless you can specifically prove that attack was lightning speed, it probably wasn't.

I already showed Zoro outrunning thunder bolts from the sky.

Yeah, that isn't a combat worthy speed feat due to several reasons.

1) He's running away from lightning bolts that are coming from way up in the clouds meaning it takes a lot longer for them to reach the ground.

2) We don't know the interval they were fired at.

3) He could have had a head start.

4) It's a travel speed feat anyway.

This is no outlier, because 2 arcs later, during Enies Lobby, we see Kalifa, the weakest member of CP9, dodge lightning from Nami's clima tact. Nami's lighting is as close to natural lightning as you will get in most series, because it is created from actual thunder clouds.

Could i have the scans?

I do believe you, but just for the record.

And Kalifa is fodder to the likes of Jabra, Kaku or Rob Lucci (the 3 strongest members of CP9), whom the M3 fought. So if we consider Mel to be a lightning timer based on his feats against Gilt, then so are the M3 and way early in the series.

We'll see.

This is mostly a travel speed feat tbh. And even here, Luffy has something which can compete.

Meh, i disagree. Galan was able to react and move away from Merlins nigh-instantaneous spell before Meliodas and the other sins could even see or react, thats a reaction/speed feat all right.

Luffy, in base form, outruns a large liquid explosion where the explosives were sticking to his body.

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Outrunning a point blank explosion that massive is as good as Galan's feat imo.

This is a really good feat, however i disagree that it's better than Galans because Galan did it faster than 7 lightning timers could react.

You have shown only 1 speed feat for Galan, and that is related to travel, not combat speed, so this reasoning is faulty.

The actual point of that feat was to show that Galan could react, then get ready and jump, all before the 7 sins could react.

Okay, that's fairly big talk for someone who has only 2 speed feats shown thus far that do not depend on scaling. You are basing your entire argument on the basis that Gilthunder's attacks are as fast as natural lightning, and on the faulty logic of equating Galan's travel speed as combat speed.

Yeah, because everything suggests Gilthunders attacks are that fast. No one has ever dodged them that shouldn't have a realistic chance of doing so and they have been stated as literal lightning bolts.

By that logic, the M3 should be lightning timers as well by the end of the Skypiea arc (since they reacted to Enel's attacks), and so should be more or less even speed wise with Mel after all the powerups and time skip they went through.

Nope, because Enel physical attacks aren't actually lightning speed. They should be lightning timers by Enies Lobby though.

I, on the other hand, have presented only concrete quantifiable feats thus far, all of which are, barring faulty scaling, as good as anything Mel has shown.

Interns of speed you're probably right, there isn't much to be discussed here. IMO Mel is about as fast as G4 Luffy and thus won't be doing any significant outspeeding but won't be blitzed either, so i'd suggest we rather focus on the other areas of the fight as i feel speed doesn't need to be discussed as it's not particularly relevant here.

But don't worry, I have something up my sleeve which would substantially balance the scales. Meet...

Ok.

Gear 4

Luffy's first real power up after the time-skip, he first used it against the Warlord Donquixote Doflamingo. With some creative use of his Gomu-Gomu powers combined with Haki, it exponentially boosts Luffy's stats, giving him the speed of Gear 2 and the strength of Gear 3, allows to "fly" (though its more like he glides) and boosts Luffy's resistance to any form of cutting attacks considerably.

Yeah, G4 is cool.

Here's a sample of Gear 4's strength.

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As you can see, Gear 4's King Kong gun folds the entire city of Dressrosa in half just by the impact of Doflamingo colliding.

What were you smoking when you said this? I'm sorry but look at your scan.... Those are at best a few City Blocks, nowhere near the entirety of Dressrosa goddamnit. It's an impressive feat but don't go overhyping it to much ok.

This is again a heavily exhausted, out of haki Luffy, whose punch first had to overcome Doflamingo's God's Thread and Spider's Web, Doffy's strongest offensive and defensive techniques respectively.

I don't think he fact that he was exhausted matters much in a series like One Piece. He was using his most powerful attack and clearly at full power no less.

Due to the circumstances at hand i'll agree to the fact that this is in fact a City+ level feat despite the destruction only being multi-city block level, but no more.

So Gear 4 is easily Multi City level+ to possibly approaching island lvl in striking power. Even Mel would be seriously messed up if Luffy can land a KKG.

Wait, wut?

He destroyed a few City Blocks and considering the circumstances it does scale to City+, possibly even Mountain level but there's just no way a City Block level suddenly scales to Island level, the difference is beyond massive.

I agree that a KKG can certainly hurt Meliodas, but that guys pain tolerance is insane. He tanks all of these Mountain+ level attacks and survives, still conscious.

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Once again, from right to left.

And yeah, most of Luffy's body is coated in haki whilst still retaining its rubbery nature in Gear 4. This gives Luffy tremendous durability against both blunt force as well as cutting and piercing attacks.

I disagree. He's still weak to powerful enough cutting attacks as showcased in his fight against Commander Cracker.

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Meliodas Mountan+ level attacks would most certainly ruin him.

Luffy Gear 4 vs Doflamingo

After going Gear 4 Luffy outright no sells Doflamingo's Haki infused kick (one of Doflamingo's normal kicks cut through several towers just by air pressure) and his strings (which can cut through meteorites like wet tissue paper), so Luffy's so called ":vulnerability" to piercing attacks is virtually non-existent in Gear 4.

Impressive.

As for speed, Luffy in this form was effortlessly blitzing Doflamingo all over the place, when Gear 2 Luffy (massively hypersonic who outran a liquid explosion) and Trafalgar Law (who sliced apart a point blank meteorite) could barely keep up in speed with Doflamingo.

One of G4's most impressive feats, it was able to blind side and blitz Doflamingo from over a city away.

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Keep in mind Doflamingo can slice apart meteorites at point blank range and was too fast for even massively hypersonic extreme hax characters like Trafalgar Law.

Knowing how fast Doffy is, I would say G4 is certainly more than fast enough to keep up with Mel, with the added advantage of flight and insane range.

Extremely impressive, and i agreee that G4 would most certainly be able to keep up with Mel,, which is why i suggest dropping the speed argument in favour of the more important, more relevant ones.

M3's DC vs Meliodas Durability

Can I see a scan showing exactly how much damage this attack did? I can see it bowing off the tops of a few mountains but the M3 are well above mountain lvl at this point, and were approaching it even pre skip I'd say.

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Keep in mind the blast is several miles further than that Mountain and the shockwave destroyed the Mountain. Just off of sheer size that blast is multi-mountain level and its clearly powerful enough to vape stone etc., so...

Multi-Mountain level and Meliodas tanked it.

This is also energy durability while the M3 relies exclusively on physicals.

No difference, both are blunt energy.

I can't really accept without more proof that beginning of series Meliodas was a legit mountain buster. In terms of feats, even Alabasta saga Luffy is better.

Wrong! I proved above why Meliodas is Mountain level even at that point. To summarize

1) Easily cutting a large Hill with the shockwave of a twig!

2)Cutting Mountain+ size Albion who's skin had City Block++ durability into pieces.

3) Casually breaking Baste Dungeon which was reinforced by a Town++ level spell as a side effect.

Also, you're missing the point. Diane's strength at that point was only very minimally < Meliodas' own and yet he could tank her attack which proves he can tank attacks at his own power level, which are Multi-Mountain and far superior to the M3.

Baste Dungeon is nowhere as large as a mountain, nor was that guy strong enough to destroy the dungeon. This is a multi building lvl durability feat at best.

Meh, fair enough, Mel has better anyway.

Also, you have yet to show any cutting or heat resistance feats for Mel, which is what Zoro and Sanji will be coming at him with. From what I have seen, Mel isn't particularly resistant to cutting damage.

This is silly...

Split Durability isn't a thing unless specifically stated so.(f.x Luffy without Gear 4)

You'll have to prove Meliodas has split durability to make this argument work.

Using this split durability logic is how it came to "neck feats for ....., else ..... just cuts his neck" for a while.

Now for some other durability feats for Meliodas. He tanks all these attacks from the ten commandments.

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right to left again.

Now, as for how impressive this is, Fraudrins attack(the beam from the sword) has been confirmed > a meteor because it broke a barrier that could tank even a Meteor.(both Fraudrin and his son confirm this and Hendrickson doesn't deny it either).

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Now comes the shocker: out of all the commandments present there, Fraudrin is officially the weakest, his power level is 31,000. (Out of the others who attack there, Derriere is 53,000, Monspiet is 50,000 and Gloxinia is 47,000).

This means all the commandments present are >> Meteors and Mountains and Meliodas tanked there attacks.

Mel's DC vs M3's Duability

So far from feats shown, Mel seems to have about city block lvl blunt force striking and small hill level cutting potency.

Boi...... Even by the feats i showed in my opener that Mel scales to atleast City level when you look at the fact that he casually destroyed a City Block sized structure that was reinforced by a Town++ level spell as a side-effect of an arm wrestle.

First of all, Luffy is completely immune to any kinds of blunt and concussive force, and in G4 has haki capable of no selling Doffy's strings (Doffy's strings are incredibly tough and sharp, his bird cage could not be cut by the likes of Zoro and Fujitora and would have cleaved through Dressrosa in time).

Yep, Luffy is immune to physical force which means it's good that Mel relies exclusively on cutting attacks, Luffys weakness.

As for Zoro and Sanji, they have incredible damage soak and pain tolerance.

E.g: Both of them tanked Kuma's Ursus Shock, an island wide explosion.

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Ok, first off, that Shockwave isn't covering anywhere near an island, just by comparing it to the building it's next to you can see it's City Block radius at best.

Secondly, it didn't even completely destroy the City Block area it exploded in.

So yeah, this at best a City Block level attack.

Zoro's pain tolerance in particular is just ridiculous.

Agreed.

I think everyone knows of this feat by now, at the climax of Thriller Bark, Zoro takes all the pain and damage sustained by Luffy during his fights, in addition to all the damage that Zoro had himself received throughout the arc, and survives.

Yep that's some ridiculous pain tolerance on par with even Meliodas' own.

In a nutshell, even though Zoro and Sanji would definitely take some damage from Mel's attacks, their insane pain tolerance would keep them in the fight long enough to finish Mel off.

Zoro you've proved, Sanji not so much.

Luffy, on the other hand, can just no sell most of Mel's attacks on account of his rubbery nature, and mitigate any cutting attacks with Armament Haki.

Nope, considering Mel mostly uses Cutting attacks which Luffy is still weak to if there powerful enough(refer to scans above), which Meliodases certainly are. The only other attacks Meliodas consistently uses are energy attacks in his Demon Form, which none of the trio have a particular weakness or resistance against. Mel barely utilises punches so Luffy's rubbery nature won't be a notable advantage here.

Observation Haki

This is basically very high level precognition.

True,

Pre skip, this allowed Luffy to avoid Mihawk's potentially fatal attack Note that his was a Luffy entirely untrained in the use of Haki.

Was it ever confirmed that this was due to Haki?

Post skip it has allowed Luffy to casually dodge lasers from a Pacifista (he even calls them slow), dodge a bullet after it has been fired at point blank range, and casually dance through Hody's barrage of water bullets(each of these bullets can level city blocks and cross an island in seconds).

Cool i guess, but nothing suggests Luffy wouldn't be able to dodge those attacks without pre-cog, so if you're trying to show how great Haki is this doesn't cut it.

All you're showing is that he has decent pre-cog.

Here's another good showing of Observation Haki.

Hakuba, a demon which awakens when its host Cavendish falls asleep,is ridiculously fast and could blitz and clear the entire D-Block (which all consisted of New World veterans) in seconds.

Only Rebecca, who is a relatively weak Haki user compared to the top tiers like M3, could react to Hakuba and outlast him.

Here's the full fight.

Don't exaggerate. Rebecca barely managed to react and only because Hakuba was lazily attacking in a straight forward line, besides, this has nothing to do wth the M3 anyway so why bring it up?

In summary, Observation Haki further evens out whatever little speed advantage Mel might possibly have.

I agree, which is why i suggest we focus on the other sections.

Countering your strategy

Cloning

I have yet to see a single scan of even true Mel legit busting a mountain, and your entire speed argument depends on scaling off Gilthunder.

But scaling from the Hill feat, Baste Dungeon feat and the Albion feat make it clear he casually operates on that level.

Also scaling from Gilthunder is fine because nothing contradicts the notion that his attacks are lightning speed and they have been confirmed as literal lightning multiple times.

That doesn't matter though, as I have shown, the pre skip M3 were at city/mountain lvl attack potency, and were already lightning timers as far back as Skypiea, the post skip M3 is on a whole different level. So if Mel's clones only have mountain lvl durability, they are gonna get one shotted real fast.

Hilarious. You've proven pre-skip M3 operate at City-Block+ level, but no more.

Mel's clones are there to handle Sanji and Zoro for a short while so Meliodas can body Luffy, which he can do quickly with his overwhelming cutting power, G4 or not.

Meliodas clones would have power level of about 30,000, meaning they operate on Mountain+ level looking at how powerful 3,370 Meliodas was and looking as that's above Galan who tanked Mountain level attacks with no damage at all.

This is easily enough to distract Sanji and Zoro so that Meliodas can dispose of Luffy quickly with a powerful cutting attack or with an attack by his darkness.

I doubt Mel's clones would last long against Zoro and Sanji, but this issue can be also be easily circumvented if Luffy goes G4 from the onset and just blitzes and one shots the 2 clones (G4 can quite easily do this).

Luffy never goes G4 off the bat, and he won't here considering he doesn't actually know how powerful Mel is.

Strategy

For taking Mel down, it makes sense for Luffy to go G4 right from the start. It does have a limited window, but even an exhausted Luffy who had already used up a lot of his haki could maintain G4 and fight evenly against Doflamingo's Awakening for about half an hour, so I think it would be enough for the purpose of this fight.

He doesn't do that in-character though, especially not against someone whose strength he can't evaluate.

Besides Luffy has already started to show more control over G4. He fought Cracker 12 hours straight in G4 and against very powerful opponents like Big Mom, it has been his go to move.

Only because he knew how strong they would be.( Big Mom=Yonko, obviously powerful)

Once he goes G4, he easily blitzes and one shots Mel's clones, and from there, the M3 gang up on the true Mel.

He won't go G4 before he gets annihilated.

A tentative plan of action can be G4 Luffy and Sanji grapples and holds him down, while Zoro drives a sword through his heart

Won't work, Meliodas can use his darkness to turn his hands into huge weapons or claws and push them away.

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Or he could block it with darkness armour.

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Besides, it wouldn't work anyway, Meliodas has 7 hearts.

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Demon Power

This is what i consider to be Meliodas' trump card. This power no longer has any drawbacks for him and many attributes that will help against the M3, those being...

Regeneration

Mel's Regeneration when using the Demon Power is amazing, so much so that Zoro's attacks will all be regenerated, making him nothing more than a nuisance.

Reconnects his arm, twice.

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Now for some context. Hendrickson, a human, gained the power of a significantly lower class Demon than Meliodas and Meliodas should have atleast = Regen to that Demon. Hendrickson performed these feats.

Heals from dozens of stabs all over his body in an instant.

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Heals from 3 huge cuts in an instant.

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Looking at this, nothing short of being cut into pieces or having all the bones in his body broken will stop Mel, neither of which the Team is capable of doing.

Another thing Mel's regeneration adds is the option to bait Zoro into slicing him, Zoro will think the fight is over and get destroyed while off-guard.

The other thing his demon powers give him is...

Darkness Energy Manipulation

Meliodas darkness is capable of some insane stuff, capable of nigh-one-shotting the M3 honestly.

Here he uses a beam of darkness to kill Gelda, making huge hole that was later revealed to be 30,000 feat deep(for reference that's nearly 1000 feet deeper than Mount Everest is high) or 5.7 Miles.

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Confirmed 30,000 feat.

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This is the textbook definition of a casual Large Mountain level attack, fully capable of one-shotting Sanji who has no feats to suggest he can take something like this.

Meliodas has done something even more impressive though.

Here he destroys an entire Kingdom using his darkness in a weaker incarnation. Said beam of darkness creates a huge crater and dwarfs even nearby Mountains.

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This proves current Meliodas' darkness should be sitting at a casual multi-mountain level, enough to one-shot at the very least Sanji and deal severe damage to Luffy or Zoro. The AOE is so massive dodging isn't an option either.

Conclusion

  • Meliodas is stronger and more durable than the M3 by a large margin
  • Meliodas darkness can and will severely injure anyone here and most likely one-shot Sanji
  • Meliodas regeneration will make him incredibly hard to put down
  • Meliodas clones can distract 2 members of the M3 while the real one stomps the other one
  • Meliodas wins
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#29 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Well damn. This post was long as shit and took forever to make, probably the most effort i've ever put into one post.

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#30 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Edited by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Exams just got over man. Already working on it. Give it a few more days.

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#33 Edited by HitTheAssasin (2392 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@hittheassasin: Exams just got over man. Already working on it. Give it a few more days.

How'd ya do?

That's fine, i just wanted confirmation.

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#34 Posted by shirso (1197 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

How'd ya do?

Lot better than expected for sure. Was plenty distracted (which is mostly CV's fault), but somehow managed.

That's fine, i just wanted confirmation.

Np.