CaV: Monkey D. Luffy(Eazy) vs Natsu Dragneel(Molt)

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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Monkey D. Luffy(represented by eazy2002)

No Caption Provided

VS

Natsu Dragneel(represented by @molt)

No Caption Provided

RULES:

•Three posts each.

•Both start in their base forms.

•Manga feats only.

•The fight starts 50m apart.

•Please do not give your opinion on the subject matter and try to respect the protocol of a CaV.

Fight takes place at:

No Caption Provided

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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@molt
It's up. Do you mind using your first post to establish Natsu's stats? I want to see your take on him before we advance to counters in our second posts if you're ok with that.

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Yray

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Yea boi! TAEP

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mevbi

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oof, taep

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citgo

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RIP Luffy.

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HighMantra_X0Sp

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#6  Edited By HighMantra_X0Sp

Taep

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Naronu

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TAEP

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pics

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#8 pics  Online

TAEP

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vintorez

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I've seen them multiple times arguing about the verse they're representing, tis' should be gud

TAEP.

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FaradaySloth

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Over/Under on amount of days before Woodward concedes again. 23 seems good?

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exauce

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Let just hope Molt doesn't concede again.

TAEP

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Taep

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yamatama

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TAEP

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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@molt: So when will your first post be up? Also have you considered what I said in post #2?

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deactivated-600a15e9df946

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T4v/Taep.

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ducksimth

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TAEP

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Dimitri1220

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TV4 TAEP

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AnimeFreak1

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#19  Edited By AnimeFreak1

TAEP

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Dimitri1220

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This is gonna be good

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Bump for more views

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Molt

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#22  Edited By Molt
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#23  Edited By Wushu59

TAEP

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Senate

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TAEP 😳

But maybe should have waited for Wano to end.

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Sanjee007

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Teap t4v

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Opener

No Caption Provided

Intro: This should prove to be an interesting formal debate for these two combatants are quite often pinned against each other aggressively by their respective fans. However, all of this will end now as I shall prove Luffy is absolutely no match for the Dragon Slayer. I won't do a bio for Natsu here, as everyone who reads this debate should have a rough idea of whom he is. So with all that said and done, I wish you luck, eazy, and may the better man win.

Attack Power - Natsu > Luffy

Let's begin by addressing the first and most important section, which Natsu objectively and factually outclasses Luffy at by on-screen feats, chain of scaling, statements etc. by astronomical magnitudes. Call it attack potency, destructive capacity, raw power etc.

First of all, and this is where a bit of scaling comes into, Natsu being the central force in the 100 Quest fight against the Dragon Gods should scale above an average dragon in FT, one of whom is Atlas Flame. Now, Atlas Flame had a particular a feat where he sublimated a powerful ice that froze the Sun Village (I posted the anime because it illustrates the picture better, but don't worry, it's in the manga):

No Caption Provided

The ice not only froze the village (which is a village of giants) but it also froze the whole surrounding mountain range. The smallest mountain range in the world is 16km, so we're talking about an area of double digit km that was frozen. More importantly, however, is the hardness of the ice itself as Tartaros Natsu could not even burn an inch of its surface, and he could melt metal and rock on contact in the first chapters. To sublimate that sheer mass of super-hard ice would yield island+ level energy, which was what Atlas Flame did. [1] [2] Note: He did that feat while weakened and no-named attack, just his heat aura.

Secondly of all, not only Natsu scales above a feat like that, but he actually had done something similar in Alvarez Arc, where he vaporized a lake by accident.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The lake seen here is Lake Scillora, not only it is huge to the point that you could observe it to the horizon from an aerial view of 100+ meter but the author himself described it as ''huge sea''.

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No Caption Provided

Just take Lake Como as a reference here: It's very similar in size to Lake Scillora, and to vaporize it you would need about 12 gigaton/island level:

No Caption Provided

What those two feats have in common are the following:

  • Both were done via passive heat.
  • No magical-attack was used.
  • In Natsu's case, it was unintentional as Jacob was his target and the lake dried out as side-effect.

If Natsu can passively radiate this much energy, then it's very logical to conclude his named-attacks will be incomprehensibly more powerful, easily in the large island range especially since all that radiation was spread out miles worth of distance from its epicenter heating up the water and air, and his named-attacks only have to be 8+ stronger to be large island at minimum.

Considering how the 2 characters fight, H2H combat will be the immediate method of engagement, which Natsu could respond in two ways: Roaring in Luffy's direction or punching him with Demolition Fist.

Take his fire breath destroyed large chunks of the earth forming a whole canyon:

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Or his Demolition Fist which onehsotted the War God, a gigantic creature who not only stood at a height reaching the clouds but a swing of his blade split several miles of the earth:

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No Caption Provided

And we all know if either attack lands, it's instant KO where Luffy turns into ash. But guess what? Natsu doesn't actually have to land anything to oneshot Luffy. This is where his passive heat mechanism comes into play. Natsu being a fire mage is capable of releasing a lot of heat enough to melt down a whole coliseum:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

You're looking at temperatures ranging from 5 to 6 digit degrees. I'll explain: it takes 1520 °C/2768 °F to melt a tonne of scrap steel, but Natsu melted a structure that weighted multi-million tons, because even Rome Coliseum was built from 1.1 million tons of concrete, bricks, stones and it's smaller and less durable than the Grand Magic Games coliseum that was designed for superhuman mage fighting. Considering he melted it in seconds time-frame, that is some insane temperatures well beyond 10.000+ degrees. And Luffy is going to be fried in Natsu's presence, as he never withstood constant heat like this.

Everything I listed here is base-form, Dragon Force takes it to a whole other level, but I won't get into it for now. Everything here should suffice. I'll be waiting for you to show the following:

  • Luffy's AP and how it compares with Base Natsu
  • Fire durability feats for Luffy
  • Feats for Luffy that he could survive Natsu's passive heat at constant rate (like per sec) without getting vaporized or receiving 1-st degree burns constantly

Durability - Natsu no-sells Luffy's arsenal

This section will address Natsu's durability feats and how Luffy can't even hurt him to begin with.

First off is, he face-tanked a magic roar from Mercuphobia. [1] [2] Which is an impressive feat of durability, because Mercuphobia, being a Dragon God, scales tiers above typical dragons like Motherglare, whose magic roar is capable of pulverizing a whole mountain range:

No Caption Provided

Secondly, he also tanked a shit ton of hits from God Seed Aldoron, while already heavily fatigued and injured:

  1. First hit
  2. Second hit
  3. Third hit
  4. Fourth hit

God Seed Aldoron possess the same power as his dragon body, which has physical feats like destroying hundreds of kilometres of land with stomp:

No Caption Provided

Luffy quite simply doesn't AP feats that measure up to the creatures Natsu fought, traded blows with and survived. He has the durability and toughness to no-sell all of his hits, the endurance to fight an attrition battle. Period.

Speed - Natsu can keep up with Luffy

This is probably the most debatable section, but I'll just show here that Natsu should cap at sub-relativistic+ to relativistic. In other words, he can easily keep up with Luffy if you think he's in that area.

He dodged Laxus's lightning from point-blank back in beginning of series [1]; Laxus's lighting had a feat where it hit the ground from cloud height before a bullet could move a meter requiring Mach 900 speeds to pull off [2]. I'll quote a fellow who calculated this feat:

"For reference, your average bullet can move 5 meters in 0.007 seconds(they move at speeds of 762 meters per second), meaning Laxus' lightning would have to have come down from the clouds in that timeframe to vaporise all of Wall's bullets before they could cover the distance between the two of them. For reference, regular cloud to ground lightning takes about 0.021 seconds to cover the same distance, which would make Laxus' lightning 3 times faster, or about Mach 850. This math also matches up with the fact that low-level clouds manifest at around 2 kilometres above ground level, and Laxus' lightning covering that distance in such a short timeframe would also be around Mach 900. And both Natsu and characters that are equal to his base form dodged this very lightning" -HitTheAssassin

He also reacted to August's magic fire eruption, where he protected Lucy and Mest by negating the attack.Now that particular feat is pretty impressive, because it shows Natsu's reaction time is superior to Mirajane's. Let me explain: Mirajane during the Tenrou Island Arc reacted to an explosion that was attached right into her body:

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From looking at the panels we can see 3 things:

  1. The roots were tightly attached to her body to the point she couldn't break out of it.
  2. She reacted and dodged after the roots exploded.
  3. She took no damage.

This puts her reaction time at 3 digit nanoseconds (294 nanosecond to be exact), because the epidermis, first human skin layer, has a thickness of 0.1 mm, and Mirajane can react to an explosion before it crosses that distance (it was attached to her body and she took no damage). Mirajane could not mentally process August's magical bullet spell from several yards, whereas Natsu can react to August's stronger magic spell from close range. This already puts Natsu's reactions and combat speed at relativistic.

And if those two weren't enough, here is another one: He dodges Aldoron's magic beam from 1 meter or so:

No Caption Provided

Aldoron's magic beam scales above Deus Sema in speed, which I'll explain below the justification for the scaling, but let me address the speed of Deus Sema first.

As we can see, the meteor is specifically shown come from deep outer space and hits the earth in moments:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

What this means is the meteor travelled hundreds of thousands of kilometres in moments. I'll use the distance between earth and moon which is 384,400 km as bare minimum, and assume time-frame of 20 sec, 15 sec, 10 sec.

  • 20 sec time-frame gives you Mach 56034 (sub-relativistic)
  • 15 sec time-frame gives you Mach 74713 (sub-relativistic)
  • 10 sec time-frame gives you Mach 112069 (relativistic)

Those are the reasonable estimations for the meteor's speed in space. You might say it was slowed down after hitting the earth, which is true, but the loss of velocity for meteors heavier than 1000 tons is only 30% (Deus Sema is way heavier than 1000 tons):

No Caption Provided

Fireball FAQs - American Meteor Society (amsmeteors.org)

So adjusting the figures by multiplying to 30% would give you:

  • Mach 16810.2 (sub-relativistic)
  • Mach 22413.9 (sub-relativistic)
  • Mach 33620.7 (sub-relativistic)

All in all, Deus Sema is solidly quint Mach. Now why is Aldoron's magic beam faster? Because, while Erza is faster than Deus Sema as she did outspeed it and destroyed it, and characters around her tier like the Spriggan 12 can keep up with her, the strongest amongst the Spriggan 12, August, was blitzed by Base Acnologia. And Aldoron >= Dragon Acnologia.

I've done my part and showed Natsu has nanosecond reactions and relativistic combat speed, I'll be waiting for your Luffy speed section and whether you're going to pull out ''blitzes gg''.

Strength

This is the only area I would agree with Luffy having the edge at, but, regardless, I'll show Natsu is no slouch in this.

First one being is destroying a massive chunk of Tower of Heaven way back in first season:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The impact of Natsu punching Jellal to the tower is what caused that much destruction. Obviously if Natsu directly hit the tower, he likely would have levelled the whole structure, and note this was a heavily injured fatigued Natsu who would perform significantly less than a healthy state. For context on how big the tower was:

No Caption Provided

Next being is casually moving while Bluenote's crushing him with gravity like nothing is happening:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

For context on how strong Bluenote's gravity is:

Nevertheless, Natsu would need to have mountain level physicals to casually move under Bluenote's gravity, as this is perfectly consistent with Gildarts who did the same thing as well, with Bluenote also stated that Natsu reminded him of Gildarts and it aligns with the fact Natsu surpassed Gildarts by 2nd post-time skip. And Gildarts has this much casual striking strength.

Finally being Natsu destroying a mountain by simply hitting a fodder to it:

No Caption Provided

Summary

To conclude my thoughts, this is a mismatch in all honestly. Natsu had fought bricks like Luffy before, but stronger in every way and defeated them. He fought physical behemoths like Aldoron and War God, whom are physically stronger than Luffy by lightyears and came out winning. All of his AP feats in terms of effort consumption and power quantification are simply magnitudes higher than Luffy's. He can no-sell his 1-dimensional fighting style, while the same can't be said for Luffy who hasn't demonstrated any fire resistance on the levels being debated here.

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Molt

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@yray said:

Yea boi! TAEP

@mevbi said:

oof, taep

@naronu said:

TAEP

@pics said:

TAEP

@vintorez said:

I've seen them multiple times arguing about the verse they're representing, tis' should be gud

TAEP.

@exauce said:

Let just hope Molt doesn't concede again.

TAEP

@madrus17 said:

Taep

@yamatama said:

TAEP

TAEP

This is gonna be good

TAEP

@wushu59 said:

TAEP

@senate said:

TAEP 😳

But maybe should have waited for Wano to end.

Teap t4v

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Senate

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This is where the fun begins

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Molt

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HighMantra_X0Sp

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#30  Edited By HighMantra_X0Sp

This is gonna be good

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Bink_69

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TAEP

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pics

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#32 pics  Online

Great post

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bonfire_king

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TAEP

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Naronu

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Strong start

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exauce

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Definitely not what i was expecting.

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Lilgodperv

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@molt: nice opener and TAEP and T4V

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Edgelord91

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TAEP though they should’ve waited until after wano

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yamatama

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Hopefully this finishes unlike most CaVs on CV these days

So far nice opener

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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@molt said:

@eazy2002: post is up

Good post. I'll have mine up in a few days.

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Dimitri1220

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TAEP though they should’ve waited until after wano

@yamatama said:

Hopefully this finishes unlike most CaVs on CV these days

So far nice opener

@naronu said:

Strong start

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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Madrus17

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#43  Edited By Madrus17

Good opener!

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mDemocracy

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Bump

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Floridaman29

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TAEP.

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Molt

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@edgelord91: First off, read the conditions: you shouldn't give your opinion during the debate. Secondly, Base Natsu that beat Bluenote was post-time skip to DF Natsu ToH Arc.

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Edgelord91

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@molt: my apologies then.

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Delein

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T4V

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AxiomPulse

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TAEP

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Omnihater

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T4V.