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#1 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to a Challenge a Viner of Epic proportions. The purpose of this debate is to provide an amazing read for the readers of the Vine................so to the collective community we say: enjoy!!!

The Contestants!!!

Exiles Mimic (Calvin Rankin) represented by Cosmicallyaware1......

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Carol Danvers (Ms./Captain Marvel) represented by the legendary almighty Mod himself....Vance_Astro!

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The Rules of Engagement!! Terms and Conditions....

  • Mimic has the powersets of: Cyclops, Colossus, Wolverine, Northstar, and Hank McCoy.
  • No Binary abilities/amp for Carol
  • Morals on, yet bloodlusted.
  • No Prep, random encounter
  • NO BFR for win. win is KO or opponent unable to continue fighting.
  • standard gear as applicable
  • no calling in outside assistance

Location......

The Inhuman City of Attilan.

No Caption Provided

Who do they encounter? Mimic is on a mission reality repairing in the 616, and is in Attilan. Carol is there on a mission with the Avengers............one thing leads to another, and in typical fashion they both think each other is a bad guy. And the fighting ensues.......

Challenge a Viner Rules:

  • For your vote to be counted at least one reason must be provided and it must not be based off the character, only the debater.
  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.
  • Please refraing from stating whom you think is the victor until the thread gets open to voting.
  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.
  • As always, may the best debater win............

and with that.................

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#2 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

tag

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#3 Posted by Comicdude360 (3245 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for voting.

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#4 Edited by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

tag tag tag tag... im pretty psyched for this...

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#5 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Wyldsong (9577 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Edited by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

Just so i'm clear, when you say "No Binary/Amp for Carol" are you taking away her ability to absorb energy?

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#8 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

tag me please

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#9 Posted by Iragexcudder (9461 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: OHHHHH!!!!!!!! TAKE MR @vance_astro DOWN!!:)

Lol jk but I can't wait to read this! best of luck to both you gents, this is gonna be epicsauce

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#10 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude360: @wardemon32: @serrure: @wyldsong: @realitywarper: @iragexcudder: the tagging of the votes shall come your way when the time comes gents......

Just so i'm clear, when you say "No Binary/Amp for Carol" are you taking away her ability to absorb energy?

not necessarily. If she demonstrates that ability regularly, then that's fine. I was mostly referring to her "upgrading" to her Binary form, as that puts her near Herald level which Mimic is clearly not and therefore would be spite.

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#11 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13838 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance in a CaV?

Sweet. Tag for voting.

Jmarshmallow

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#12 Posted by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by Kingant27 (16647 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks good, tag me for voting please...

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#14 Posted by tensor (8358 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good.Have not seen Vance in a while.

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#15 Edited by deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba (5989 posts) - - Show Bio

This does not really seem like a fair fight...

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#16 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

This does not really seem like a fair fight...

what we have here is one hall of famer and 1 future hall of famer... they will surprise you... trust me man.

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba (5989 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure said:

@misterwhisper said:

This does not really seem like a fair fight...

what we have here is one hall of famer and 1 future hall of famer... they will surprise you... trust me man.

I meant the characters not the debaters. I will refrain from comment on the hall of famed idea.

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#18 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper said:

@serrure said:

@misterwhisper said:

This does not really seem like a fair fight...

what we have here is one hall of famer and 1 future hall of famer... they will surprise you... trust me man.

I meant the characters not the debaters. I will refrain from comment on the hall of famed idea.

and exactly why is that? please......enlighten. as far as the characters go.......I'll agree with you that it's, slightly biased however, how many fights are like that in comics? that's what makes it interesting!!!!

@eisenfauste said:

Tag I want to see how this plays out, welcome back @cosmicallyaware1

absolutely my man, thanks! glad to be back, was gone for too long this year......keep your eyes peeled, I'm workin on many, many matches!!!

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#20 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Lol as long as you finish the tournaments I'll keep my eye's open haha.

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#21 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7483 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

and exactly why is that? please......enlighten. as far as the characters go.......I'll agree with you that it's, slightly biased however, how many fights are like that in comics? that's what makes it interesting!!!!

Maybe Giving Mimic Northstar's powers may make this a mismatch. It automatically makes him way faster than her by a significant margin. Also if he's never had Northstar's powers that also violates the "using certain buffs" rules of the battle forums. You could only make a case on what Mimic can do with those powers based on what Northstar has done but they aren't the same character, it would be impossible to know what a character would do with powers he's never had.

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#24 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

and exactly why is that? please......enlighten. as far as the characters go.......I'll agree with you that it's, slightly biased however, how many fights are like that in comics? that's what makes it interesting!!!!

Maybe Giving Mimic Northstar's powers may make this a mismatch. It automatically makes him way faster than her by a significant margin. Also if he's never had Northstar's powers that also violates the "using certain buffs" rules of the battle forums. You could only make a case on what Mimic can do with those powers based on what Northstar has done but they aren't the same character, it would be impossible to know what a character would do with powers he's never had.

ahhhhhhhh my friend........let me educate you on something. In the Exiles run........Mimic had Northstar's powerset. It was after he lost the flight capabilities of Angel, and after he had an encounter with Alpha Flight.

However, as in with his powers.........he only has 50% of the original bearer in lieu or power levels (which I was going into in a later post......darn you)

trust me.......i got this covered, totally legit. Plus, whatchu worried bout? you already have an advantage in higher powerset. debate brah.

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#25 Posted by chaos911 (4166 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: and previously when I referred to the match as being slightly biased, it was in your favour. I am the underdog here

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#27 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

Plus, whatchu worried bout? you already have an advantage in higher powerset. debate brah.

"Worried"? LOL!

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#28 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

Plus, whatchu worried bout? you already have an advantage in higher powerset. debate brah.

"Worried"? LOL!

hehehehehe.....................yeah, figured as much. Start.

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#29 Edited by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

@vance_astro: and previously when I referred to the match as being slightly biased, it was in your favour. I am the underdog here

I don't know much about Mimic. I thought Carol would be a good matchup because of her versatility, but if you want to fight an uphill battle...be my guest. I'll drop my opening post in the morning. We discussed other options so if you want to take something that matches up closer, we can do that.

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#30 Posted by GhostRavage (14925 posts) - - Show Bio

This is really nice, please tag me for votes.

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#31 Posted by Killerwasp (17202 posts) - - Show Bio

This is really nice, please tag me for votes.

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#32 Posted by The_Invincible_One (594 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for votes

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#33 Posted by Knightsofdarkness2 (8155 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome CAV and please tag me for the votes.

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#34 Posted by Jacthripper (14431 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#35 Edited by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, here we go...

Let's Begin with Carol facing similar circumstances, below is a group of scans that depict her fighting a Super-Skrull with the powers of Cyclops, Nightcrawler & Colossus

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Let's deal with Cyclops' Powers, Although Cyclops is one of the most powerful energy projectors on Earth and powerful enough to overload Bishop who has similar absorption abilities to Captain Marvel, Carol has taken blasts of a magnitude that Mimic would be unable to match...below is a scan of her taking a blast from Sin/Skadi and projecting it back enough to cause her physical harm and here is one of her tracking down a missile and absorbing the blast making her strong enough to go hand to hand with the Sentry...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Now Let's Deal with Colossus' Strength & Durability. I don't know how much about Mimic's use of other characters powers but assuming he has the full strength of Colossus, that would put him at class 100. When I brought up Northstar you said that he has about 50% of the original character's power level so that would put him at about class 50 correct? Below are some scans of Carol fighting characters around that level or stronger (Namora, Valkyrie, World War Hulk Skrull, & Wonder Man)...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
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Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

I'll hold off on dealing with Beast, Wolverine & Northstar's powers until I have to respond...

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#36 Posted by johnfrank120 (6702 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for votes please.

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#37 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

first off, for those of you whom are unfamiliar with Mimic, let me drop some info real quick.....

Exiles Mimic - Calvin Rankin (earth 12)

No Caption Provided

lead his reality's X-men before he was drafted into the Exiles (team sent in to repair broken realities basically. It's deeper than that but that will suffice for now). He is a natural leader and exceptionally skilled. He has the mutant ability to copy other being's powersets and keep up to 5 powers with 50% of the strength of the original bearer.

The powersets he is using here are: Cyclops, Colossus, Wolverine, Beast, and Northstar.

He has some residual telepathy left over from when he mimic'ed Jean Grey (yet only really showcased or spoke about it once) but did show substantial resistance to a version of Charles Xaivier's telepathic intrusions.

Some notable feats include (but are not limited to): beating a version of Namor to death, snapping a version of Juggernaut's neck (only stated not shown), fight with King Hyperion, and surviving alone on the brood planet for years.

He has been trained by the best his reality had to offer is considered one of the reality's greatest heroes.

Let's talk about some statistics quickly:

  • Energy Projection = 50% Cyclops max output and does not need a visor to control.
  • Speed = 50% of Northstar's max (has been stated at over Mach 10, but for here I will keep him at Mach 5 max just to be fair)
  • Durability = SUBSTANTIAL!!! mix of Colossus and Wolverine (even Beast in the mix) should be just plenty for this.
  • Strength = 50 ton level
  • Agility/Reflexes = 50% of mix from Wolverine and Beast should be ample enough
  • Enhanced Senses = once again 50% of mix from Wolverine and Beast should be ample enough
  • Wolverine style Claws = not Adamantium but like Colossus's Organic Steel coating. Then have been shown to regen if broken, and when not "armored up" they are bone version.
  • It's relevant to note that Mimic can utilize ALL POWERSETS SIMULTANEOUSLY.

@vance_astro: there's that man, I'll be back later to continue.....

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#38 Posted by Fanatic_for_Fernus (379 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for voting

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#39 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice. I'll be following this.

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#40 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: alright man, now that I've given some info on Mimic let me dive into this fully.....

Let's visit rebuttal and counter town!!!!

No Caption Provided

Let's Begin with Carol facing similar circumstances, below is a group of scans that depict her fighting a Super-Skrull with the powers of Cyclops, Nightcrawler & Colossus

excellent example and one I probably would've used myself. Only issue is that those mass produced Skrulls didn't nearly have the finesse to utilize the power sets and believe that the level of the powers were not very substantial. Mimic on the other hand is packin a heavy dosage of the goods, and trained extensively in the use of his skills with his reality's Xavier and X-Men, and even lead his reality's X Men over Cyclops. He's one tough cookie.

No Caption Provided

The point I really want to make here is that Mimic is very comfortable with his powers and utilizes them to their fullest, in perfect harmony. As opposed to a mass produced low level inept Skrull.

Let's deal with Cyclops' Powers, Although Cyclops is one of the most powerful energy projectors on Earth and powerful enough to overload Bishop who has similar absorption abilities to Captain Marvel, Carol has taken blasts of a magnitude that Mimic would be unable to match...below is a scan of her taking a blast from Sin/Skadi and projecting it back enough to cause her physical harm and here is one of her tracking down a missile and absorbing the blast making her strong enough to go hand to hand with the Sentry..

I think that may be the most challenging aspect of Mimic using Cyclop's energy projection here, Carol's ability to absorb. And considering that Calvin is only operating at 50% output of Scott that may not be close to enough to harm Carol at all.

Or is it?

Let's talk about the potency of the energy projection in itself.

The maximum force of Cyclops' blasts is unknown, but a commonly given description is that they can "punch holes through mountains", and he has been shown rupturing steel plates and pulverizing solid rock. It has been stated that Cyclops uses only a fraction of his vast potential energy output. His more powerful optic blasts can demolish fully-armored tanks, severely damage Sentinels, and obliterate entire icebergs

in X -Men Civil War, Iron Man stated that Cyclops top energy output to be as great as a nuclear reactor. A mathematics units of measurement was given in the comic, I'm not sure what it ws but if you find out just input the data into this converter and it gives you the answer http://convert-to.com/159/energy-units.htmlpretty much he has an atomic bomb insead his head. the energy output was well over 2 gigawatts. Now keep in mind that Mimic only has 50% of this maximum output but here is the calculation for the full output just to illustrate a point.

Amount : 2 gigawatt hour (GWh)

Equals : 5310447474535.16 pound force foot (lbf-ft)

Equals : Equals 2408778615 (tons)

So cutting that in half would equal out to :

Amount : 1 gigawatt hour (GWh)

Equals : 2655223722267.5 pound force foot (lbf-ft)

Equals : Equals 1204389307.5 (tons)

now, has Mimic ever demonstrated Optic Blasts at that level of power? no. But in theory, that's the kind of power he's packin. Strong moral code dictates damage done usually, and Calvin demonstrates moral fiber with the best of them. In a bloodlusted state, who know what will happen. I'm just not sure if Carol has the absorption capabilities for something like that.

The next point I would like to illustrate is tricky and I'll start it with a question: can Carol absorb the energy from things such as force? It's not like she absorbs the energy from punches throw to her like Sebastian Shaw correct? The reason I ask this is because Cyclops Optic blasts are Energy yes, but unlike most energy projection....the blasts are force. Unlike Heat Vision for example, the Optic Blasts are mostly concussive force.

If the Blasts are used in a fashion unlike the traditional frontal assault, and in conjunction with the "spatial awareness skill", Carol may not necessarily be able to absorb them. Follow me? and yes, Mimic has demonstrated that ability of Cyclop's previously, and considering they trained tougher for years and Mimic copied his powers, I say it's fair to say that he demonstrates the capacity as well........

No Caption Provided

and for those of you reading this unaware of what I mean by Cyclop's "Spatial awareness", here is a quick piece on that:

Cyclops possesses a uncanny talent for spatial geometry, enhancing his observation of objects around him and the angles found between surfaces of these objects. This inborn talent grants him the ability to ricochet and/or reflect his optic blasts off objects in a trajectory to his liking. Cyclops has honed this intuitive spatial awareness through extensive training in the Danger Room, enhancing his accuracy in the use of his mutant power. He has been observed reflecting beams off of half a dozen different surfaces in the course of a single optic blast, hitting multiple targets accurately

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

So in closing on that for now:

  1. Could Carol really absorb the output Calvin is capable of?
  2. Could Carol absorb the energy is Calvin used it in a fashion as I proposed?

moving on.............

Now Let's Deal with Colossus' Strength & Durability. I don't know how much about Mimic's use of other characters powers but assuming he has the full strength of Colossus, that would put him at class 100. When I brought up Northstar you said that he has about 50% of the original character's power level so that would put him at about class 50 correct? Below are some scans of Carol fighting characters around that level or stronger (Namora, Valkyrie, World War Hulk Skrull, & Wonder Man)..

excellent questions. here:

Mimic Physical Durability Feats!!!!!

Mimic had some decent durability feats during his run on the Exiles. I will showcase some here and give a brief explanation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

scans 1-5: fight with a bloodlusted Wolverine whom was trying to kill him. Mimic got tore up by Wolvie's claws pretty good, and Mimic win the fight BTW........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

scans 1-3: tanking plasma blasts from an evil bloodlusted version of Havok . and let me show you how important that is:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

considering: scan 1: blowing apart a sentinel. scan 2: blast is so powerful fuses ground beneath to glass. scans 3-5: against professor hulk, in 1 hulk states he thinks blast broke a rib and in 3 appears to have potency of a nuclear explosion. scan 6: is a hypothetical potential on top powerrange. So Mimic tanking blast is substantial.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

scans 1-2: tanking punch from Juggernaut (this was in the 616 universe, and Juggs was depowered at the time so his strength level was probably around 75-80 tons......still notable however)

now some ones I don't really have good scans for but will work on getting done, but I will just explain:

  • Took a thrashing from a mutated version of The Thing (rockin roughly class 100 strength. heh. rockin...get it?) here's some pics of him, just don't have the actual scans of Mimic tanking the punishment
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Took Moses Magnum's seismic powers full force, internally. (messed him up good, but hey...whatever)

He took some serious punishment from King Hyperion on a few occasions.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

scan 1: slams into KH with Northstar speed (imagine hitting a concrete floor after falling a 100 feet!) scan 2: tanks a blast from KH eyebeams (very potent, will show some of the damage they can cause next) and scan 3: crushing mimic's hand and KH stating how he killed many powerful opponents.

now about KH's eyeblasts:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

scan 1: destroys a Vision. scan 2-3: incinerates a Wolverine, all flesh off and organs destroyed....just a skeleton left after. scan 4: kills a Namorita (Namor level strength class and durability) and scan 5: implies (off panel) that beams kill a Hulk. Just a couple.

will that do? I have more but that should illustrate that point of Durability.

Mimic's Damage Output!!!!!!

Let's see..........well for one there's that fight with a Wolverine that I mentioned/showed before. He was able to put Wolverine down after a great Brawl. But you were asking about strength right?

He's stated to have broken a version of Juggernaut's neck.

He beat a version of Namor to death.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

He's laid waste to lots robots n such......

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and he's shown to have more, but I'm bushed after that. Can go into more detail later.

I'll hold off on dealing with Beast, Wolverine & Northstar's powers until I have to respond..

okay, I'll tackle those in next post man.

No Caption Provided

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#41 Posted by ZhuRong (6728 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for voting

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#42 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

excellent example and one I probably would've used myself. Only issue is that those mass produced Skrulls didn't nearly have the finesse to utilize the power sets and believe that the level of the powers were not very substantial. Mimic on the other hand is packin a heavy dosage of the goods, and trained extensively in the use of his skills with his reality's Xavier and X-Men, and even lead his reality's X Men over Cyclops. He's one tough cookie.

The point I really want to make here is that Mimic is very comfortable with his powers and utilizes them to their fullest, in perfect harmony. As opposed to a mass produced low level inept Skrull.

Nice Counter but Rl'nnd isn't one of those "mass produced Skrulls", he's a Super-Skrull like Kl'rt. Many Skrull soldiers proved to be nowhere near as powerful or as skilled as their counter parts on Earth but as shown with Queen Veranke (Spider-Woman), Khn'nr (Captain Marvel), Criti Noll (Hank Pym/Yellowjack), Pagon (Elektra), Z'Reg (Crusader), Chrell, Lyja Lazerfist & several other Skrulls, some of them are far more adept at using their abilities than others.

I think that may be the most challenging aspect of Mimic using Cyclop's energy projection here, Carol's ability to absorb. And considering that Calvin is only operating at 50% output of Scott that may not be close to enough to harm Carol at all.

Or is it?

Let's talk about the potency of the energy projection in itself.

The maximum force of Cyclops' blasts is unknown, but a commonly given description is that they can "punch holes through mountains", and he has been shown rupturing steel plates and pulverizing solid rock. It has been stated that Cyclops uses only a fraction of his vast potential energy output. His more powerful optic blasts can demolish fully-armored tanks, severely damage Sentinels, and obliterate entire icebergs

in X -Men Civil War, Iron Man stated that Cyclops top energy output to be as great as a nuclear reactor. A mathematics units of measurement was given in the comic, I'm not sure what it ws but if you find out just input the data into this converter and it gives you the answer http://convert-to.com/159/energy-units.htmlpretty much he has an atomic bomb insead his head. the energy output was well over 2 gigawatts. Now keep in mind that Mimic only has 50% of this maximum output but here is the calculation for the full output just to illustrate a point.

Amount : 2 gigawatt hour (GWh)

Equals : 5310447474535.16 pound force foot (lbf-ft)

Equals : Equals 2408778615 (tons)

So cutting that in half would equal out to :

Amount : 1 gigawatt hour (GWh)

Equals : 2655223722267.5 pound force foot (lbf-ft)

Equals : Equals 1204389307.5 (tons)

now, has Mimic ever demonstrated Optic Blasts at that level of power? no. But in theory, that's the kind of power he's packin. Strong moral code dictates damage done usually, and Calvin demonstrates moral fiber with the best of them. In a bloodlusted state, who know what will happen. I'm just not sure if Carol has the absorption capabilities for something like that.

The next point I would like to illustrate is tricky and I'll start it with a question: can Carol absorb the energy from things such as force? It's not like she absorbs the energy from punches throw to her like Sebastian Shaw correct? The reason I ask this is because Cyclops Optic blasts are Energy yes, but unlike most energy projection....the blasts are force. Unlike Heat Vision for example, the Optic Blasts are mostly concussive force.

If the Blasts are used in a fashion unlike the traditional frontal assault, and in conjunction with the "spatial awareness skill", Carol may not necessarily be able to absorb them. Follow me? and yes, Mimic has demonstrated that ability of Cyclop's previously, and considering they trained tougher for years and Mimic copied his powers, I say it's fair to say that he demonstrates the capacity as well........

Cyclops' Power is described as concussive force but it is energy based, which as I stated before is why Bishop was able to absorb it. They have the same powers of Energy Absorption. If by "spatial awareness skill" you mean Mimic bouncing the blasts off of surfaces, I don't think it will help. I'm not sure how Carol's energy absorption works because she has been hit by blasts that she didn't see coming without absorbing anything but having less energy output than the character he's mimicking and Carol having superhuman speed and reflexes as well as being a trained combatant I think there are more than enough ways that Optic Blasts' won't work against Carol.


  1. Could Carol really absorb the output Calvin is capable of?
  2. Could Carol absorb the energy is Calvin used it in a fashion as I proposed?

His output couldn't be any greater than that of a nuke missile or a blast from Sin, both of which have been absorbed by Ms.Marvel.


Mimic Physical Durability Feats!!!!!

Mimic had some decent durability feats during his run on the Exiles. I will showcase some here and give a brief explanation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

scans 1-5: fight with a bloodlusted Wolverine whom was trying to kill him. Mimic got tore up by Wolvie's claws pretty good, and Mimic win the fight BTW........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

scans 1-3: tanking plasma blasts from an evil bloodlusted version of Havok . and let me show you how important that is:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

considering: scan 1: blowing apart a sentinel. scan 2: blast is so powerful fuses ground beneath to glass. scans 3-5: against professor hulk, in 1 hulk states he thinks blast broke a rib and in 3 appears to have potency of a nuclear explosion. scan 6: is a hypothetical potential on top powerrange. So Mimic tanking blast is substantial.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

scans 1-2: tanking punch from Juggernaut (this was in the 616 universe, and Juggs was depowered at the time so his strength level was probably around 75-80 tons......still notable however)

now some ones I don't really have good scans for but will work on getting done, but I will just explain:

  • Took a thrashing from a mutated version of The Thing (rockin roughly class 100 strength. heh. rockin...get it?) here's some pics of him, just don't have the actual scans of Mimic tanking the punishment
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Took Moses Magnum's seismic powers full force, internally. (messed him up good, but hey...whatever)

He took some serious punishment from King Hyperion on a few occasions.

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scan 1: slams into KH with Northstar speed (imagine hitting a concrete floor after falling a 100 feet!) scan 2: tanks a blast from KH eyebeams (very potent, will show some of the damage they can cause next) and scan 3: crushing mimic's hand and KH stating how he killed many powerful opponents.

now about KH's eyeblasts:

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scan 1: destroys a Vision. scan 2-3: incinerates a Wolverine, all flesh off and organs destroyed....just a skeleton left after. scan 4: kills a Namorita (Namor level strength class and durability) and scan 5: implies (off panel) that beams kill a Hulk. Just a couple.

will that do? I have more but that should illustrate that point of Durability.

These are some decent durability feats but in many of them, Mimic does get hurt pretty bad. Against King Hyperion he gets his hand completely crushed and he hurt himself when he crashed into Hyperion in the first place. Against Wolverine, pieces of him are getting shredded off. He survives but because of all of his other powers, it was still a knock down, drag out fight with a street leveler. He takes some blows from some really strong characters, some that are even stronger than Carol but seeing as how she regularly fights characters between class 50-100 and is capable of causing them physical harm with her punches, I don't think it would be any different for Mimic who is only using half of what Colossus' actual durability would be. I don't know how much her own energy projection would do but below is some scans of Ms.Marvel fighting Warbird who is an alternate reality version of her accept with the stats she had back when SHE was Warbird. So she has about the same energy output but she's 25% weaker physically. I'd imagine that if a regular blast from Carol nearly killed a character who regularly absorbs energy, Mimic wouldn't fair so well either.

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Mimic's Damage Output!!!!!!

Let's see..........well for one there's that fight with a Wolverine that I mentioned/showed before. He was able to put Wolverine down after a great Brawl. But you were asking about strength right?

He's stated to have broken a version of Juggernaut's neck.

He beat a version of Namor to death.

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He's laid waste to lots robots n such......

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and he's shown to have more, but I'm bushed after that. Can go into more detail later.

I'll hold off on dealing with Beast, Wolverine & Northstar's powers until I have to respond..

okay, I'll tackle those in next post man.

I can't comment on him breaking Juggernaut's neck because I don't know it was done nor do I know any more information other than it being stated that he did it. If this is a weaker version of Juggernaut, maybe Mimic snapped his neck..I don't know but if he's only half as strong as Colossus and this is the case, that version of Juggernaut must be alot weaker than advertised. I don't know what to make of him "beating Namor to death". Nor can I tell that's what really happened. There seems to be fire-based powers involved but Namor has been shown to not only fight Human Torch but resist his powers (although that totally doesn't make any sense), I assume this version of Namor isn't so lucky to have any resistance to fire based attacks, but there is clearly more to it than what his strength allows him to do. Carol has no problem with fire, but Mimic doesn't have those abilities in this particular fight.

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#43 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: very nice, well played. Will have reply up sometime tomorrow.

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#44 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: ok my man, sorry for the delay. Allow me to continue here..........

Continuing the Counter Train......

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Nice Counter but Rl'nnd isn't one of those "mass produced Skrulls", he's a Super-Skrull like Kl'rt. Many Skrull soldiers proved to be nowhere near as powerful or as skilled as their counter parts on Earth but as shown with Queen Veranke (Spider-Woman), Khn'nr (Captain Marvel), Criti Noll (Hank Pym/Yellowjack), Pagon (Elektra), Z'Reg (Crusader), Chrell, Lyja Lazerfist & several other Skrulls, some of them are far more adept at using their abilities than others

Whereas I believe you are correct in regards to some of these examples being more adept, I feel that they are by no means a threat. I rescind my statement of "mass produced" in the case of Rl'nnd however. Not any of them can hold a torch to Kl'rt though.....

I will stand by my initial point that I was trying to make of: Mimic being a much more dangerous opponent and substantially more adept and skillful with his powerset.

Let me give you some info to illustrate here:

1,000 pounds of force is generally the force behind a normal human punch that can bench press on the average of 250 lbs. there are 2,000 lbs in a ton. So that would be 8,000 pounds of force behind a punch that could bench press 1 ton right? Ok then if an individual could bench press 50 tons then that would mean that there is 400,000 pounds of force behind a punch.

Now what if a punch traveling past the speed of sound (Mach 1)(343 meters a second or 750 MPH) with 400,000 pounds of force behind it lands in Carol's face? Or how about at Mach 2 (which is twice the speed of sound)(686 meters a second or 1,500 MPH) and so forth up to Mach 5?

And that is just ONE punch, what about multiple punches from a speedster such as an individual like Northstar does?

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I'm saying from just this alone, it could turn Carol's head into a fine mist of pulverized matter despite the opponents she has faced before. I feel that Mimic has the speed advantage here, and it will help in edging out due to Carol having higher strength and the energy absorbing capabilities

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Cyclops' Power is described as concussive force but it is energy based, which as I stated before is why Bishop was able to absorb it. They have the same powers of Energy Absorption. If by "spatial awareness skill" you mean Mimic bouncing the blasts off of surfaces, I don't think it will help. I'm not sure how Carol's energy absorption works because she has been hit by blasts that she didn't see coming without absorbing anything but having less energy output than the character he's mimicking and Carol having superhuman speed and reflexes as well as being a trained combatant I think there are more than enough ways that Optic Blasts' won't work against Carol

I'll say that I was stretching it on that one, just trying to find a way around the absorbing and not having one of Mimic's main assets nullified here. I was referring to the "spatial awareness skill" in terms of ricochet shots, as I was unsure if Carol's absorbing capabilities worked against indirect attacks and if she had feats similar to that in the past. I will admit that my knowledge on Carol isn't 100%, but I am pretty familiar with her and have read the majority of her appearances aside from her more current stuff.

I still question and wonder about the limits of her absorbing and curious if she absorbs things of a kinetic energy (like the energy from punches)

His output couldn't be any greater than that of a nuke missile or a blast from Sin, both of which have been absorbed by Ms.Marvel.

Fair enough.

These are some decent durability feats but in many of them, Mimic does get hurt pretty bad.

True, and I'm not saying that he didn't get hurt, the point I'm pushing is that he can and has gone up against more powerful opponents with resourcefulness and confidence. He also bounces back fairly quickly with his healing factor.

Against King Hyperion he gets his hand completely crushed and he hurt himself when he crashed into Hyperion in the first place. Against Wolverine, pieces of him are getting shredded off. He survives but because of all of his other powers, it was still a knock down, drag out fight with a street leveler. He takes some blows from some really strong characters, some that are even stronger than Carol but seeing as how she regularly fights characters between class 50-100 and is capable of causing them physical harm with her punches, I don't think it would be any different for Mimic who is only using half of what Colossus' actual durability would be.

The fact alone that he fought KH without getting killed so quickly is a testament to his abilities.

The fight with Wolverine, whom is as you referred to as "street level" is impressive enough due to the fact that Logan has taken out incredibly powerful opponents himself and fights the Hulk without fear. The fact that Mimic was able to pull off a KO going head to head is damn respectable in itself. Yes he was getting pieces shaved off, but how many others have had the same thing happen? It's adamantium, and Mimic isn't completely invulnerable. The point is Mimic's dedication in the first place.

Also let's not forget the slight addition of Beast's strength in the mix added to Colossus. It's not a lot, but every little bit helps. And Hank's agility and acrobatic skill will definitely help added in with the speed factor. Carol may be hard pressed to land many blows on Calvin.

I don't doubt at all Carol's ability to harm Mimic. However considering the punishment he can take, his healing factor, and his speed, I think it's fair to say he can keep going. The question in return, is how will Carol fare with those claws, in conjunction with the strength and speed as i have stated above?

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I can't comment on him breaking Juggernaut's neck because I don't know it was done nor do I know any more information other than it being stated that he did it. If this is a weaker version of Juggernaut, maybe Mimic snapped his neck..I don't know but if he's only half as strong as Colossus and this is the case, that version of Juggernaut must be alot weaker than advertised. I don't know what to make of him "beating Namor to death". Nor can I tell that's what really happened. There seems to be fire-based powers involved but Namor has been shown to not only fight Human Torch but resist his powers (although that totally doesn't make any sense), I assume this version of Namor isn't so lucky to have any resistance to fire based attacks, but there is clearly more to it than what his strength allows him to do. Carol has no problem with fire, but Mimic doesn't have those abilities in this particular fight

Understood, there really isn't much to go on the Juggernaut point except the fact that Mimic stated he had done it. It was never stated on what power level Cain was at or even if it was Cain. As far as the Namor fight, I will say that Namor was weakened slightly due to the fight being in an area that became engulfed in flames from an explosion. However it raises a nice durability point as that Calvin was unfazed by the blast or the heat.

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#46 Posted by vance_astro (90093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: no worries man, take your time, I'm in no rush.

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#48 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36323 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Jestersmiles (9823 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero said:

@cosmicallyaware1: Ms Marvel Wins, because I like her more. **** Your CAV. :p

bro.......no salty. ready to get ours movin? I'm on a roll lately! I'm actually at a loss where to get started on that one. Why don't you kick start it bro? ;)