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#201 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#202 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio
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#203 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Few more hours, I apologize to everyone here for the wait

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#205 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Done. 5 o clock pacific, maybe 6 because I go running

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#206 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

Everytime someone bumps this I get a false sense of hope lol. Glad to see we're almost through

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#207 Posted by DeathHero61 (18765 posts) - - Show Bio

Done. 5 o clock pacific, maybe 6 because I go running

Make sure you have your post saved to a PM lmao.

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#208 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Might Guy:

No Caption Provided

Like my opponent I will also be breaking this down in various sections, I first want to express how sorry I am for how long this took (procrastination is real) and how much I enjoyed this particular debate. Hopefully I shed light from a different (even if unpopular) perspective for you all. Being said lets get the hard things out the way first......:

Apologies:

Christ, where do I begin here......Im sorry in-general. To the audience, hell I'd vote for GV for the note of not being a complete ass the entire time however that's not how the vine works sadly. Im not so much as a terrible person as to where I don't have feelings for those around me, and being said I'd like to think of you all as the family I've never had. The ignorant, comical, and biased family i've never dreamed of.....

But truth be told, im not at all being what you would consider hostile towards you all....it's just I get a kick out of riling up my opponent. Sometimes I take it a bit far and I don't consider how my opponent actually feels, some may welcome the selective trash talk whilst others may find it completely unnecessary and somewhat off-putting. That isn't the only problem though.....I usually let my pride dissuade me from apologizing and continuing the debate in a civil manor but that isn't right nor fair to the other users on this board, no matter how garbage thier opinion is.

That being said I'll work on my overall attitude about the vine...........just as soon as the sky turns green. LOL, happy reading folks.

Counters:

Conclusion? Guy can't. Now why is that important? Because Cosmic himself agreed that Might Guy has practically zero durability showings, so Cosmic knows that if Guy gets tagged by even a casual hit from Saitama he's dead. And that's why he's making such a big deal of speed, because he has absolutely no response for Guy's lack of durability against Saitama's punches. So even if he debunks Serious Punch and Roar Canon till Jesus comes back there's still the fact that Saitama's casual hits are Large Island+ and verge on small country (which he agreed was fair in his opener). Add that to the fact Saitama has inescapable continental AOE and Guy has no path to victory.

Well sir if you were paying attention to the full argument I've already concluded that the AoE is you're speaking of is being massively oversold, It's not like Guy couldn't simply get behind Saitama (or just sidestep) like I've stated several times as well.....

This has been a major focus of Cosmic's debate, debunking Saitama and reducing his power drastically below the popular opinion or what is normally accepted (stuff like saying that he's "hypersonic at best" or below country in striking). Well, I'm here to tell you now that it's pointless, because half of the stuff he debunks are claims I didn't even make, and he's using it to point away the focus and intentions of my main argument. In other words, he's pulling a Red Herring. Purposely debunking statements I never said in order to make it look like he's doing something, or tearing apart arguments that don't pertain to me at all (which gives the illusion that he's winning). This was the case with most of the "counters" in his opener, and I'll point out when he does it again in these rebuttals.

I mean I blantantly said "most arguments I've seen in threads" before that....Most of which holds true because you in-turn used said evidence in your argument.....Just a tip for the near future, if your opponent anticipates your move, don't make it. I find it hilarious that you're accusing me of presenting a red herring.

Instead of focusing on aspects of Guy's powerset like skill and experience, (he tried with skill but didn't use demonstrate it to be a key player in H2H) he views if he somehow manages to abuse Guy's speed advantage it'd be able overcome his durability and strength shortcomings. While I admitted it's a good strategy, I'm not that lazy of a debater to regocnize that CL knows he only has one road to victory, which I will surely cock block. For example, if I equalized speed in this debates' opener, Cosmic while have nothing- absolutely nothing. I have proved Saitama to be superior in every other category (except skill), which I will do as many times as it takes to get my point across. Now that I've gotten to the root of the problem, I'd love to see how he proves Guy is more durable than Saitama, or how he has more striking power; without using embarrasing fan calcs about the Earth's density and other laughable stuff.

You see I could except if the speed gap was minimal as to where Saitama would be able to somewhat have contention with guy, I could see if Saitama could even tag Guy every now and then but it's just not the case here. It's not so much as a single example or scenario you've provided as to where Guy cant simply rush him down with numbers of attacks he can't react to. I've also outlined that Guys technique in-general (eight gates) is a series of formations and stances attuned to attacking the enemy with bursts of incredibly high speed....

This has less to do with the actual debate and counters than my first three points, but I just wanted to convey this message to him. He put himself at such a disadvantage, using a character without an uproar of feats; and one that relies on scaling more than his opponent. In order for him to sway the opinion of the populace, he needs to do an outstanding job with his debating while simultaneously representing his character perfectly and proving Guy to be superior in various areas than Saitama (which I'll try my hardest to disallow him from doing). Overall this debate is very well grounded but now that I'm going at it full force I'm interested to see what direction he takes his third post in, considering I've shut down his main route to victory and will continue to apprehend other ones.

Thanks, you're not too bad yourself. However I feel thiers a difference in direct scaling via feats rather judging another characters capability off another. For example I say Lee is faster than the raikage since he has better performance against Madara but would be nothing short of assinine if I suggested he's mountain level for being able to beat him.

Speed this, speed that- blitz this, blitz that. Let me be frank- who cares? At this point it's become obvious you have no other direction to take this so I'll cut it off here. Guy being faster than Saitama doesn't take away from the fact that his speed advantage is all for naught, as I already voiced in my "Dissecting the Debate" section of this post. Blitzing Saitama is an option, but it's not like he'll get anything out of it. None of Guy's striking feats outside of breaking the TSB hold a candle to Boros' moon kick. As for Guy breaking Madara's TSB (his best striking feat), I can easily debunk that but utilizing the logic you emplyed to debunk Saitama's serious punch and roar canon. One being because it wasn't visually impressive and didn't destroy the surrounding area outside the TSB itself ( believe me, I'm not twisting his words- this is how his logic went), and the other is that it's possibly an outlier considering up until that moment Guy had no large country+ striking feats. That's exactly how you debunked Roar canon, by saying it didn't destroy anything other than the ship meaning it was weak and by saying it was an outlier due to Boros possibly bluffing.

Ok let me explain something, the hit that broke TSB was a side effect of direct contact of his casual punches just as EE is the shockwave of his punches.......and since he doesn't have to watch for the TSB shields whats stopping him from hitting him directly? Also we know for a fact that gates elevate the user to a completely different level, Guy was just throwing Island busters and was able to briefly contend with Madara in 7th.....It isn't by anymeans inconsistent nor questionable for that matter.

Lmao, I already proved it was this level when I provided context for it in my opener, which you basically agreed to, considering you had no way to debunk it and accepted my word on it

LOL, i'll give you this one just because I find it to be an outright comical technicality despite the obvious level of sarcasm present in that sentence.

The effect of the ship or atmosphere doesn't matter, as long as it's confirmed he overpowered a continental energy beam, which he did on panel. That's just like me saying that even though Guy broke Madara's TSB (which has an irrefutable durability), because he didn't bust anything outside or around it the attack was weaker... lol. There's also no way a serious, morals off Saitama isn't anything less than continental in striking; considering his casual hits fall between island and country, Boros stated RC to be continental, and the fact the AoE is continental,(it should be noted that it was AoE leftover power from killing Boros who was small country lvl durability + regen). So yes, country/continental for serious punch is fair game. But if that explanation doesn't satisfy you, don't worry I'll go in depth later.

What? So now you're saying the effect of the ship and atmosphere don't matter when that's all we have to base the attack off of? If Guy broke something with proven durability than that means his striking is above his durability; we have a clear way of quantifying that. However you're pulling RC out of thin air, no variables whatsoever to base it on other than a statement.

Also if you're wondering how I got small country lvl dura for Boros, please recall that he tanked a mean blow from Saitama-

Circular argument.

What's funnier is stating the God tree stump is larger than Madara's CT meteors when it's not

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The stump can easily compare to some of them.

And what's straight up hilarious is calling it "large country" sized

Good luck arguing against scans. As we can clearly see, the base of the God tree (minus the roots) is wider than several mountains at best.

Credibility officially destroyed, that's a picture of the god Tree as it first began sprouting and as per your admission it already spans over a mountain range. Heres the page before-hand:

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Saitama has numerous circumstantial evidence to show that his serious punches are country/continental. These include-

- His casual punches being small country lvl, and since his serious punches are magnitudes stronger, it's not inconsistent or illogical to assume them being continental when coupled with other evidence (such as)-

- Boros stating it to be continental, keep in mind it was his trump card, and all of his energy and strength poured into it

-The AOE of said punch affecting the atmosphere for 10s of thousands of kilometers over a continental area

All these, (and the fact that continental is generally considered to be fair- for different reasons as well), add up to the fact his serious punch (when morals off) isn't anything less than continental in power.

This all falls again under the circular argument of you not being able to prove Saitamas striking is on that level. We'll just let the audience decide.

I never made the argument that Boros was higher, just that the were aerial. Funny how you keep using those anime pics though. Anyway, Saitama and Boros were high enough to disturb the outer atmosphere, as well as have their collision points visible from space, so they were pretty high up too.

So clearly they werent above the clouds.....so your comparrison between that and VoTE 2 doesn't correlate well.

Scans of the village statues tanking multi-country/continental attacks

I was speaking on Naruto's Kurama avatar and Sasuke's perfect Susanoo.

The dialogue you yourself stated in your opener implies that you believed otherwise... Why you change it now is beyond me. Probably because you realize that me having the argument is hurting you and that advantage will lead me to victory, which it will.

Y'know feigning superiority and dominance over a point requires you to be actually correct? I've given you the point but I certainly wouldn't push it.

It's not like every time a character busts something it has to turn to vapor to be considered destroyed...

He shattered it into multiple pieces that were still big enough to destroy the city, what Lee did is destroying his part of the meteor.

As if that has anything to do with Guy

If Naruto and Sasuke can bust countries and Guy is on their level shouldn't that outline some consistency?

I can accept the Hirudora thing, but going off your own logic, Night Guy is NOT where it needs to be in terms of DC because of the visual scale of the attack. And lol at the indirect impact being country lvl, I mean is anyone seeing this? My opponent is calling this little puff country level-

I mean if you actually read the manga the size is pretty consistently portrayed.

I can't stress it enough, just because it didn't create that much collateral damage doesn't downplay the feat at all or take away from what it actually was, a bald guy oneshotting a continental beam while holding back. And you've asked me to prove the power of Roar Canon and Serious Punch several times, which I've done time and time again. I know that the entire thing hinges on a character statement, but I've shown that the statement is at least logical and consistent by using circumstancial evidence. For example, if I was arguing that roar canon was planet lvl, you'd have a point and I'd be forced to concede, but thankfully I'm not.

You simply haven't done ANYTHING to prove that statement is accurate but more circular scaling.

Meaning that it was an attack far more powerful than anything he's shown. Similar to the Gate of Death, it's been foreshadowed to be an extremely powerful transformation, that's why most showings with it aren't regarded as outliers or inconsistencies despite Guy not having demonstrated that level of power before

LOL what?!? Guy oneshotted a shinobi of legend prior to the death gate, it's been consistently building up to Guy being at that level so it's no logical way to discredit Guys 8th gate feats.

Because all the force is generated at the point of contact...

So you're telling me no energy carried over and it doesn't drastically decrease the feat?

That feat still beats any striking Guy has done outside of him breaking Madara's TSB, a feat which I debunked earlier using your own logic. Saitama has been hit by mountain lvl force before when he fought Carnage Kabuto, so without using calcs, (and rather common sense) Boros' moon kick can't be any weaker than any force Saitama has felt before or dealt with; including the webcomic. i'm inclined to say a fair estimate of it's power falls between island and country lvl in terms of force.

Kicking someone to the moon equates to enough energy to wipe a country out? Lmfao. Even calcs have it at about 3-4x the yield of Tsar Bomba which would be multi-mountain at best.

I've already conceded Saitama's speed countless times, so just drop the speed argument as it's not working for you. Instead how about you back up your claims of the Raikage moving at return stroke speed first? With actual scans mind you

Sure:

We've got several ways to go about this, but firstly lets just skip over the canonical fact that Kakashi split a lightning bolt as a child who may or may not be weaker than Part 1 Sasuke and the genuine fact that his prototype Raikiri gave him the speed to do so against the Raikages Lightning chakra which is OBVIOUSLY shown on a much higher level. Also the fact that Chakra Nature Manipulation is well beyond the natural elements as proven time and time again.

Here's Sasuke using Cloud to ground Lightning on Itatchi who could still percieve it whilst near blind:

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Now how is this important? Well Sasuke has Even BETTER eyes and the best thing a FRESH pair so he didn't have to deal with vision problems so it's safe to assume he can percieve a lot more clearly than his brother. Moving on to how this Correlates to the Raikage:

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Lets just go with the delusion that Sasuke is Kid Kakashi level and say that the Raikage is cloud to ground speed in V1 form, that would mean Sasuke just got a microsecond reaction feat before Mangekyou by reacting to Downward speed at pointblank range. Now lets see where A begins to really use his speed with lightning flicker in V2:

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Clearly Sasuke only percieves the raikage as a flash of light, which would mean none other than upward speed. The raikage is moving out of Sasuke's perception range, meaning he's moving between the ticks of Microseconds which would also be much too fast for a cloud-to-ground bolt. Moving on to his rival the 'yellow flash' (Someone who casually caught Kakashi mid-blitz w/ chidori) which is basically self explanatory, lets look at thier encounter:

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Can form a thought with Lightning less than an Inch away? Lets lowball it to downward speed, that's still in the couple hundreds of nanoseconds btw. Here's Naruto directly outpacing lightning and being compared to a flash of light Just like Minato:

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Not only is it consistently there speedwise, but it's outright stated and shown as well, this is more than enough corresponding evidence IMO.

Me and the voters would be absolutely delighted to see you post scans of Naruto destroying a landmass larger than a moon (planet) on panel.

Thiers a very large disparity between a moon and a Planet. Our moon is continent sized, (A small one at that) and is less than 2% of earths mass. Here's Naruto vaporizing a multi-country - continental sized land mass rather casually:

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And before you proceede to lowball it heres one of them that makes the Juubi's country level BB look cute in comparrison:

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So do I believe Naruto could bust a Moon/Continent with TSB Rasenshuriken spam? Sure as hell do, general consensus on the vine is that Naruto is Continental anyways so I doubt i'm reaching here.

Sorry, I can't counter this effectively because I'm still reeling in shock from your previous statement. And you obviously have to count all of the rings for the moon feat. They're a part of the shockwave

Why would I? EE caused a smoke cloud that went far beyond the crater he left does that somehow add on to the feat as well? That's just as ludicrous; You should've seen my face when you came to the conclusion of Saitama's 'country' level casual striking.

So you agree it's mountain lvl? Cool. And if I may ask, to which fallacy are you referring to?

you scaling his physicals off his because he beat him....I just didn't want to entertain another one of your circular statements so it's best to move on.

> Completely ignores my original argument by pulling a Red Herring again and driving the argument's focus into the gates that people were using, when in reality the point of my statement was to showcase the fact that Lee had assistance in destroying the meteor, yet still failed to destroy more than half. Not only that, no one really cares what Gate they were using as that wasn't my original point, but it was the only part of my statement Cosmic countered because it was the only part he knew how to counter...

My god now this is where I begin to lose patience, you CLEARLY just stated the other users were in sixth gate as well. I clearly explained how that couldn't logically be the case along with outline that they didn't hit the meteor at all so pertaining to striking they had no relevancy at all in the matter but to slow it momentarily. Not only that but I outright explained how it was a great deal superior to Saitamas feat for actually spanning over the entire city whilst halved. Christ dude, at least read before you attempt to make an unsound accusation.

> Implying that Lee's meteor busting is superior to Saitama's

LOL im not implying it, im outright stating it.

> Ignoring my argument yet again by dis-equating a character statement and a manga fact, instead of actually arguing against my point about Genos' analysis and debunking it because he has no counter

What else do I need to say? It's an over exaggerated character statement.......just because it's a 'critical situation' doesn't make it true.....that's a piss poor argument I don't need to bother countering.

How could Saitama not trigger the explosion of the meteor being destroyed if he's the one who destroyed it?

The resulting explosion was from the interior of the meteor, he didn't bust it just cause the reaction to make it explode. Which isn't impressive.

You asked for feats of it being near their capability, so I'll gladly show that:

So basically an inferior variant of Sasukes 3 tomoe?:

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Do you know what scans are? Can you please provide on-panel evidence of Ay moving at 1/3 the speed of light?

Can't help but notice the Irony that I've been presented with the burden of proof the entire time yet you struggle to provide the simplest of things.

Now, before I go and prove their speed, i just want to note that you used fan calcs about the earth's density to demonstrate your argument of Guy having better striking than either Saitama or Boros; so I see no reason why I can't refer to calcs for AS.

What? I've given you a PLETHORA of on-panel evidence to suggest Guy is above and beyond Saitama in striking well before I did that basic calculation and now you're resorting to a calc to get a BASIS of speed?

Slicing a monster dozens of times over before a supersonic blade an inch from his neck could tag his throat. No matter how many times that feat get's calced, (by different people using different methods), the common low end is almost ALWAYS mach 900+ when all 41 strokes are counted (it varies). If you don't believe you can read this calc me and my friends did on reddit:

Striking feat.....and I'd hardly call this impressive when you have pre-cog to suggest the enemies next move with his physical speed being around supersonic.....

And considering LS Flash is faster (so is Golden Sperm) and they're both comparable to weakened Tastumaki then yes, Garou did blitz an entire tier of characters above lightning speed.

AS feat is better in combat than LS flashs centisecond feat by far.....and this feat was utterly crapped on by both Part 1 Neji and Hinata, the former being able to deliver 128 strikes omnidirectionally to opponents much faster than sound, this was the kid who let his opponent know it was 'game over' if he ever got within range:

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That's outright cute in comparrison to what Neji could do:

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That was the 64 palm variation, I'm sure you're more than familiar with this:

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In-short? Part 1 feat.

I could argue Genos beating any part 1 character

Not against me you can't.

He blitzed Garou who could casually fodderize MHS+ characters, some above lightning. Saitama himself has many feats that place him between the upper ends of triple digit mach to quad digit, such as blitzing Boros who's fast enough to tag his body after sending it flying with physical strikes in MB (such as strikes comparable to his moon kick) . So in reality, unless Guy starts in 8th Gate he's not blitzing shit. Thankfully you never intended for Guy to start in 8th

You're on dope. This so called counter doesn't provide a shred of evidence that would even place Saitama above base Guy let alone getting to gates.

And what feat did I ignore?? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. You randomly brough up Naruto/Pain/Kakashi from the pain arc as if they're faster than Saitama and Guy?

I gave you a clear idea how fast these characters move with that feat with Naruto, that feat is then outdone x1000 in war-arc when Guy/Naruto/Kakashi have a full bout within the span of some rocks falling a few stories that expands into a different chapter.

Has it ever occured to you that it was 2 paths against Kakashi and not just Deva?

Which does nothing but highlight the difference between Kakashi and Naruto.

Nice job twisting my words. I never said he didn't react, I said he didn't dodge it. He reacted to it by deploying Susanoo, so yes Itachi was a lightning timer.

So like I said he percieved the lightning within the milisecond frame and deployed susanoo which would mean Microsecond reactionary yes?

Bruh, I said MUCH SLOWER. Tbh I don't even know why I included that feat but you're overreacting. The speed argument has been conceded but Saitama is fast enough to keep up with any version of Guy up till 8th Gate and durable enough to tank his hits.

By what evidence?

Wth... blatant Red Herring. And try again because when he vaporized the top of the ship his energy was projected as a beam:

I find it odd that you know the definition of the word yet keep misusing it for whatever reason, he clearly did the same thing to the interior of the ship......should I ask you to provide another example of his punches doing something similar?

I already disproved that. In Meteoric Burst Boros uses internal energy to propel his body's stats and striking, like he said himself.

Again, concession accepted. Head canon =/= Canon.

He's definitely not fast enough to avoid continental shockwave AOE.

.......MHS speeds can cross countries in seconds.....this isn't even a calc it's common sense.....

The only reason why disagree on it is because apparently you only counted the two innermost rings instead of all of them, which you're supposed to be because those shockwaves still have force. You probably don't count because there's no chipped rocks ro debris to be seen like there were for the inner rings, but that doesn't matter. It only shows that the center point had the most force

Silly logic. If I just showed you Guy punching a Hole in the earth and the shockwave expends past the hole I guess we can add that onto the feat. I guess when Part 1 Naruto summons Gama, the shockwave of the summoning somehow puts Naruto @ Multi-mountain? I guess when Lee uses the lotus and slams the opponent in the ground the shockwave of the impact is where it stops, not the collateral damage.

Can you not see how utterly absurd that is?

This debate has focused too much on speed for my liking. I've proven Saitama's speed with other methods overall, but I recognize it's not enough to suggest he'd tag Guy in CQC. Good thing the only thing he needs to do is throw a punch in his general direction and the shockwaves will take care of the rest- whether you belive it's continental or not, he doesn't have the durability feats to suggest he can tank even casual Saitama's island lvl blows. All I'm doing is taking that force and applying it to the shockwaves which he's shown on panel

.......And wheres this proof that Guy will let him get a punch off seeing as he had someone vastly superior on the defensive end the entire fight?

Omg I hate that autistic calc that places Boros at mountain lvl in striking. It's SO wrong. I mean, can people use common sense? Like bruh, Carnage Kabuto's breath was small mountain level, and Saitama tanked a barrage of physical punches from him after he powered up. It's because it's not quantifiable that I decided to keep it on a low end of Mountain+, but it's ridiculosly higher. Beefcakes ARM was longer than mountains are tall (refer to opener if you're in doubt) and he punched Saitama to a greater depth than the scale of his entire body. And those Guys are fodder, Golden Sperm is arguably multi-mountain in terms of strength, Garou was physically more powerful- and every strking feat in the entire series bar serious punch still pales in comparison to Boros' kick...

So you don't like it when we look at it logically, don't like it when I do things your way and meet you halfway with calcs, but you want me to conform to some faulty level of scaling that has even less reasonable variables? I could see if you even attempted to base it off the fact that Saitama tanked them with different levels of difficulty (you can't) but saying "Weaker guy bust mountain, he stronger so island level" is absolutely unsubstantiated foolishness (borrowed that one from the SW threads....)

Naruto tanked Chidori in part 1 and a lot of jutsu pale in it in comparison, would I assume he can tank piercing with no problem just because a massively weaker version accomplished it?

Ok cool. The total distance he kicked him was over 284,000 mi, all within the same timeframe

Does it disregard the mechanics of how he got thier somehow? Does it deviate from the fact that he nigh-drifted to the moon once he broke earths strongest layer of gravity?

Hm, interesting. I would like to point out something though, this calc for Guy's striking is drastically inferior to all the mid-end calcs for AS (there are so many, the ones me and my friends did on reddit is just one). The reason why is because there are far too many unknown variables in this calc for you rely on it entirely.

Except the only variable that really matters or I was even measuring in that 'calc' was the difference between densities, and which case Guys feat is superior by a longshot.

1. How do we know Guy sent him miles deep anyway? You realize a single mile is over 5,280 feet?

On the contrary this doesn't look like more than a couple hundred meters at best.

Sure.....you see that barely percieveable black spec above the Hole? Yea....that's guy:

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Of course from Madaras view it'd clearly look like less due to you only being able to percieve the light from the hole above. A few hundred meters after you claim Saitamas meteor to be country level? Surely you can make a better estimation than that, that's just laughable.

2. How did you reach the conclusion that Guy was 60 miles above ground before he sent him under? Where did you get that number from? How can you confirm it to be true?

This is all I needed to see to know you didn't actually read the response.

3. How in the hell can you possibly wager Guy punching Saitama through a moon, when our moon is over 2,000 miles in diameter? Or maybe Saitama inspired you?

Crust >>> Atmosphere and since the moons density is a lot less than earths......yea guy would Launch him well beyond the moon with a direct hit seeing as he's breaking continent level shields without contact.

The ship is quite durable actually. It tanked it's own barrage of shells after they were reflected back, said punch that liquified a semi-city sized portion of it, the impact of Saitama's return, in addition to collateral damage from their blows in general.

Cute, doesn't change my answer. Dwarfing Islands with punches is far above and beyond this ships capability.

Lol just drop it. The force is arguable country considering how bad it damaged Madara (and how his weaker striking was this level), but in terms of visual scale, the absolute most you're ever gonna get from me is multi-mountain. But according to your logic that means it's weaker right?

Doesn't matter what I get from you at this point, anyone whose read the manga throughout the war can get a pretty clear gist of size on it, let alone the scans I've shown you that suggest one of it's branches are well beyond mountain-ranges.

The force is country, but definitely not the size of the explosion.

No, the force behind it is continental since it tanked multiple country level attacks as I said earlier, the shockwave it created is easily country sized.

You never intended for Guy to start in 8th gate, you literally said that yourself. But it's obvious that you need him to be in 8th to have any chance at winning. And pfft idc if it makes me look lame by "cheesing a win", Guy will definitely kill himself using those attacks before managing to kill Saitama.

7th gate guy twoshots Saitama (absolute most I might add) minimum to no difficulty. Have you been paying attention to the arguments presented? I've been comparing Saitama to a 7th gate guy, and I've outlined how drastically above saitama 8th gate is numerous times.

I won't waste my time trying to fact check this or google squat because I know damn well you ain't trying to argue Guy as FTL.

Concession accepted on your refusal to meet on somewhat even ground then.

1. Breaking the light barrier would imply that he's faster than light, so stop that

Make me?

2. In order for him to have caused the black hole effect, he would have needed an immeasurable amount of mass packed into a single spot creating a gravitational pull strong enough to contain light. It has virtually nothing to do with speed

If you would just google those phenomenon I stated earlier you would know everything you need to.

3. Site your sources for the criteria needed to identify an object breaking or approaching the light barrier

Vast study in astrology, like I've said now SEVERAL things happen faster than light and Guy has signs of all of them. Google would really be a one-stop shop.

I said it doesn't make sense because he couldn't react to some punches from EE at all, while he was completely aware of Night Guy and it's effects as it was coming to him (he just couldn;t do anything about it, his movement was restricted due to space being warped). Theoretically it would mean EE is faster, but it's not.

His eyes help him see things traveling in a straight line similar to the Sharingan (Since it is just an evolved version of such):

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But since he has both the eyes and body of a sage......hiers no excuse for him not being able to react other than obviously being too slow.

Sigh. There are none, but he doesn't need them to win this fight

So let me get this straight......Guys pushing high-end Nanosecond range but Saitama doesn't need to move at this speed to be relevant. A BILLIONTH OF A SECOND, would It not be farfetched to simply say Guy can unload on him a thousand times over before he realizes whats going on? I mean really.....you have a Superman/Thor type speed gap and you have a Wally/Batman speedgap, the latter resembling this situation.

He doesn't need to be faster to kill him, but feats for Guy to suggest he can dodge a indirect serious punch shockwave across the planet?

Hell I don't need feats to suggest Guy can utterly stare at the back of his head the whole time whilst he's bashing his skull in. What's stopping him from simply moving out the way of the direction of his fist? What's the grounds for saitama even lifting his arm to get the punch off after Guys pummeled him with more than a dozen EE?

Red Herring. The AOE can still tag him, the force it has is another issue entirely. And you've already acknowledge that saitama's punches can range from mountain all the way to small country, which is still enough to kill a acharacter without durability feats, and I see no reason for serious punch to be weaker than his casual punches.

Lol, see the thing about that, I'm attempting to meet on a somewhat even ground with you so this debate can move forward but it's having quite the opposite. You've proven saitama to be around mountain+ level at best......If i wanted to be that bad of a sport I'd just insinuate since you haven't solidly proven anything Base Guy Blitzes and stomps.

It's not a gloat if he's releasing all of his energy and if he stated it to be the most powerful thing in his arsenal, which in the end it was. And you're acting like Guy is above mid-tier or something

ONCE AGAIN. CHARACTER STATEMENT =/= MANGA FACT.

Off-topic:

Guy can somewhat compete with high-tiers btw especially with the stipulation that 8th gates is unlimited and won't hamper him. I can't think of anyone in the New52 league he wouldn't absolutely curb minus Hal, and probably barry. I've already somewhat discussed Naruto vs Supes against one of the best debaters on this site, even he can't seem to put up a rational refute that doesn't revolve around your typical strawman argument. No diss to him though as I can openly admit I've stolen/emulated a good 70% of his technique overall.....still a clown in my book.

Unlike Madara, Saitama has actual lifting strength feats, like flipping over the mass of the Monster Association which is mountain sized into (dwarfed Z-city in every dimention of size) and resisting Tatsumaki's TK (which was strong enough to uproot said monster association from 1500 meters underground)

Laughable. SM gave Naruto the strength to do this to a mountain sized boss summon:

No Caption Provided

If the Granddaddy of Senju and Biju amped physicals can't move what sort of denomination would I go by in suggesting Saitama can?

So he's not gonna get immobilized by it, maybe damaged. And if one of EE's steps sends Saitama underground, he'll jump up at Guy, and Saitama's jumps do have a set speed, so he'll throw a punch at Guy and kill him. But EE won't hurt him considering beefcake has a similar feat that he no-sold.

and lets roll with this silly example, even Saitama jumping back to earth doesn't warrant him the speed needed....I've shown you the Raikage moving at upward speed and most calcs have the jump drastically less than that......

You've got about three more 'points' about correlating that meteor to striking and durabiility but I honestly will not waste my time with it, if the voters want to they can hold it against me, who cares.....

Conclusion?

The gap isn't as large as you make it out to be, and whether you like it or not EE isn't going to scratch him. And in character, Guy isn't going to use night moth at all, well not before Saitama manages to extend his arm in a punch.

You're basing this off a Large building feat when EE has outright turned kilometers of earth to nothing, Dwarfed an island with the shockwave of his punch, and oneshotted a Susanoo with proven casual mountain level durability. Denial is an ugly thing.

Stealing my durability argument aye? Well it seems to to me that the scenario of this battle plays out in your mind like this: Guy starts in 8th Gate and moves at light speed the entire time, using EE to spam punches and kill him before Saitama manages to blink.

No, he just opens it as Saitama isn't able to stop him and by the time he hears "Hachimon Kai!" the battle is over. Yea, possibly before he blinks seeing as you've given me at best a couple of hypersonic feats to base where he is himself.

EE isn't scratching him, I'm sorry but EE isn't country lvl and no one cares about the earth's density. Saitama has the lifting feats to suggest he'd resist and as I proved earlier, he's capable of dealing a blow amidst his opponents flurry of punches.

Largest fallacy here is that Boros Is an insect to Guy and doesn't have anywhere near his level of striking, even including the wanked to holy hell outlier.

EE won't immobilize Saitama, he has resisted TK from Tatsumaki who can replicate mountain lvl+ lifting feats while drastically weakened (though she was weak when she fought him as well) as opposed to Madara who has no notable lifting strength feats at all, which allowed him to be restricted by the force of EE. I know you're probably gonna counter by saying "EE is country lvl so Saitama would need country lvl lifting strength to overpower" but that's not how it works, it's only ever pushed back someone w/o lifting strength so someone with them can not be immobilized by it.

Except Madaras physicals are amped with Godly Senjutsu and I just shown you Naruto casually replicating a 100tonner feat, along with the Juubi's chakra.....which means just about all of Naruto's physical feats with just half of Kurama aren't even within pissing distance before the amp. Tatsumaki's TK isn't even on the same scratching post as the paths let alone Nagato or Juudara, and a nigh-unsealed Kurama easily busted out of CT:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Everything you're attempting to sell at this point is all unsubstantiated hogwash that doesn't have a leg of evidence to stand on.

Since EE won't work and Saitama would be able to move, that strategy is null and void. And Guy can't change directions to avoid Saitama's AOE, unless you can show me scans of him scaling continents in less than a fraction of a second.

As if Guy can't get behind him indefinitely throughout this fight.....

My opponent also doesn't realize how hilariously outskilled Saitama is in this battle, Guys created an entire fighting style used to counter the Sharingans Pre-cog to fight kakashi in Taijutsu:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So basically....:

  • Base Guy is faster than Saitama, so the argument of him being unable to get gates off is nonexistant. Not to mention characters at thier strongest versions is self explanatory. Just letting you know I don't have to play by your rules to win.
  • The 'evidence' of Saitama being able to resist EE is minuscule and doesn't at all add up to the level of striking exhibited even if we completely ignore all of the amps Madara has.
  • Saitama doesn't NEARLY have the durability feats to take guys direct hits and without the Need of constantly evading TSB he has nothing to hinder him whatsoever in this fight.
  • Saitama seeing, touching, tagging or otherwise interacting with 8th gate guy is unproveable banter.
  • Even If I wanted to the feats presented more than suggest BASE Guy could combat saitama, if he used a sharper weapon it's no reason why Guy can't simply dance around him and behead him.
  • If Saitama beats Guy...Quicksilver can beat Wally, Ms Marvel looks better than WonderWoman, and Batman and Tony stark have a secret intimate life. All of which very untrue and very unlikely to change in the near future. I conclude my statement, the jury can now go into verdict
  • Oh.......and:
No Caption Provided

Can't expect me to close a debate without Something! *High-fives client and takes a seat*

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#209 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio
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#211 Posted by sladerulez (10000 posts) - - Show Bio
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#212 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

bump.

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#213 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote GV. As mentioned, CL did go all out from the start and had the advantage of last post, but in vulcan's last point he just destroyed and ripped apart every argument so far while also being alot nicer to his opponent than vice versa. Not only that, but GV also used the manga Saitama, aka the weakest version.

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#214 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: @cosmic_lantern: well I guess I might aswell get this started but before I vote I feel I must say bravo to the both of you as this was a very good debate

Now with that out of the way onto my thoughts.As Gv admitted he wasn't his usual self for the majority of the debate whereas CL was great and he was to put it simply stomping imo but this all changed with GV final post which probably was the best of the debate and I feel it could have been enough to give you the win but unfortunately I am not voting based on your final posts but unfortunately the debate as a whole and with that said I believe the rightful winner of this debate is cosmic lantern well done ✅ and Gv you also did well especially with your final post.

Extras

even though this is not my thread and I probably don't have that much of a say i would suggest discarding votes where there main reason for GV winning is because cosmic came across kinda like a dick lol 😂

Also when i get back on laptop this we'll be edited to look a little cleaner and with that I bid u farewell

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#215 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio
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#216 Posted by TheVivas (19437 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that's gonna be a crap ton of reading.

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#217 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: Thanks for voting and giving feedback

@drpepperman: Thanks for the vote

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#218 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Wew this is finally over is it? I'll read the debate over and give my vote in a day or two.

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#219 Posted by Darthjhawk (5474 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: @cosmic_lantern:

Well this was a good debate in my book, and actually pretty damn close one. Normally it would be hard to debate this matchup given the perceived disparity between Guy and Saitama. However I felt both of you debated very well, and much better than I could have for these guys. As far as my vote I would have to edge it out to Cosmic_Lantern. I feel as though he controlled the flow and momentum of the debate up until the final posts, and of had the advantage of the speed debate.

However God_Vulcan still had good counters throughout and came back strong as hell for the final round of posts. I feel as though had he stayed that strong from the beginning, this would have gone differently. So for that I feel I have to give my vote to CL in the end. Take it as you will, but great job to the both of you.

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#220 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#221 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio
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#222 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio
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#223 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#224 Edited by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: A good debate, a few points in both posts I think were downplayed or wanked and a lot of odd statements and feats that seemed a little out of context, but when debating OPM and Naruto, one series who's feats are incredibly limited and the other having an Author who's know to screw character power levels harder than God Ki did, I believe both performed very well.

Personally I think that my vote has to go to God_Vulcan, although Cosmic was fighting an uphill battle using the incredibly limited feats of Guys upper Gates and the general agreement in Vine that Saitama > Guy he still in my opinion couldnt sell me on certain points, mainly durability and strength while Vulcan sold them slightly better.

Personally going of what was said in the debate I could see Guy winning with his speed advantage that Cosmic really nailed in and sold straight out and hammered easily too the end but he didn't do well enough to provide a multitude of feats for Guy in all other departments, mainly using the same handful and trying to get them across as hard as he could.

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#225 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: Thanks for the vote and the explanation

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#226 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Whilst both debaters knew their characters well, posted reliable information and formatted their posts clearly, I would say there's room for improvement on both sides. As for the debaters, Cosmic did provide better proof for Guy being faster than Saitama and Vulcan seemed to concede that later on. However, I felt he tried to intentionally downplay some of Saitama's feats rather than validly criticising them namely in the moon jumping and Boros' ship size points to be specific. Not to mention some generous embellishes on his part like Saitama not being able to even perceive/touch Guy and the grandiose assertion that Base Guy was enough to beat Saitama. And most of the attitude problems did come from CL being too snarky and aggressive in his counters at times. Perhaps Vulcan and CL had already agreed they were going to banter beforehand but from the outside it doesn't look like two debaters engaging in a spirited but respectful debate. I'm aware it's his style but it may cost him votes in the future.

Vulcan needed to be more assertive in his first two posts, which were fine despite the admission in the third one. Not entirely sure about Saitama's city busting meteor feat being country level (it depends on what size areas of the OPM universe are) but outside of that he gave solid reliable arguments. This normally doesn't happen when I vote on other debates but the final post did really seal the deal in Vulcan's favour. He pulled out all the stops to analyse, critique and counter CL's points very effectively. Vulcan sealed the deal on Saitama being stronger and tougher than Guy and made the very compelling point that CL was focusing so much on speed because he lacked durability feats. That was the clincher for me. Though Vulcan wasn't above some jabs at CL's expense either.

So I give my vote to @god_vulcan.

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#227 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio
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#228 Posted by DeathHero61 (18765 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Whilst both debaters knew their characters well, posted a lot of relevant information and formatted their posts effectively, I would say there's room for improvement on both sides. As for the overall debate itself, Cosmic did provide better proof for Guy being faster than Saitama and Vulcan seemed to concede that later on. However, I felt he tried to intentionally downplay some of Saitama's feats rather than validly criticising them namely in the moon jumping and Boros' ship size points to be specific. Not to mention some generous embellishes on his part like Saitama not being able to even perceive/touch Guy and the grandiose assertion that Base Guy was enough to beat Saitama. And most of the attitude problems did come from CL being too snarky and aggressive in his counters at times. Perhaps Vulcan and CL had already agreed they were going to banter beforehand but from the outside it doesn't look like two debaters engaging in a spirited but respectful debate. I'm aware it's his style but it may cost him votes in the future.

Vulcan needed to be more assertive in his first two posts, which were fine despite the admission in the third one. Not entirely sure about Saitama's city busting meteor feat being country level (it depends on what size areas of the OPM universe are) but outside of that he gave solid reliable arguments. This normally doesn't happen when I vote on other debates but the final post did really seal the deal in Vulcan's favour. He pulled out all the stops to analyse, critique and counter CL's points very effectively. Vulcan sealed the deal on Saitama being stronger and tougher than Guy and made the very compelling point that CL was focusing so much on speed because he lacked durability feats. That was the clincher for me. Though Vulcan wasn't above some jabs at CL's expense either.

So I give my vote to @god_vulcan.

This, I also want to add that there was a huge double standard when comparing feats, especially in regards to the AOE of attacks and potency of attacks. CL heavily criticized Saitama for a lack of damage in his feats, when most of Guy's most prevalent feats are practically the same. In fact a crapton of scaling is used in Guy's case. Its insanely hard, and I mean insanely hard to downplay a character for feats that are so blantantly clear and obvious, and even backed with statements.(the very thing which should have sealed the debate, especially since CL was relying on some statements as well) In fact I'll just repeat what Vulcan said in his opener:

You know what the best part of this is? When cosmic_lantern responds, he won't be arguing against speculation, nor against scaling, no against wank, but actual feats. Hard-earned, on-panel, blatantly showed, and irrefutably explicit feats.

TLDR Version down below

If anything most of the debate GV was carried by his character until his final post where he actually tried debating which IMO really affects the outcome of the debate, because he dropped every single potential argument he even needed, countered CL's logic, and did his very best. I have an honest to god open mind about CL's way of debating, but he kind of took it too far with the attitude, and he could at least. And he barely addressed the main argument of Vulcan in the first place, that the AOE of his attacks would kill Guy, CL had no durability counters, no defense counters or anything that could remotely debunk this. He also had no proof that Guy could even put him down.

And Cosmic gave no ground for the one category that Saitama should REASONABLY be above Guy in even with his strongest gate open. Lets ignore that for a second and focus on the AOE argument, all Cosmic really said is that guy is going to dodge the shockwave.....you have to think about how ridiculous that actually sounds. You can't just "dodge" a shockwave. Guy would have to perceive it,(SOMEHOW) predict its trajectory and area of effect(SOMEHOW) and outrun the shockwave(which is very possible) but how is he going to see it when he can only see the effects of it.)

One huge pet peeve I had about CL's posts despite how good and informative they are, was the strawmen. He made an entire index section dedicated to debunking points God Vulcan didn't even make or ever made even in his other CAVs with Saitama, and he specifically acted as if he was going to but the hilarious part is that God Vulcan immediately tells him he wasn't going to make certain arguments making that entire section pointless and somewhat pretentious. God Vulcan could have ignored that section but he went on to still address some of those very same arguments.

TLDR VERSION

I want to give CL the vote since he was the better debater for MOST of the CAV, but Vulcan addressed everything he needed to and was carried by his character so he really didn't need to fight that hard when all he was arguing was that Guy would get oneshotted(something that CL cannot contest) and that Guy would get caught in the unpredictable AOE of Saitama's punches(which is perfectly sane and reasonable at least to me) CL even went as far as to say crap like Base Guy would beat Saitama(maybe he was joking, I don't know.) It was completely onesided debating wise between Cosmic and God Vulcan with Cosmic doing all the heavy lifting and smashing all of Vulcan's initial points, but by the time final posts came around(and God Vulcan didn't even get the last say so its not like he cheesed a win through having the last post) I ended up caving in and siding with Vulcan, mainly because of his Dissecting the debate section, and some of the counters that followed

Dissecting the Debate

This section will be dedicated to ripping apart CL's arguments limb from limb, setting the foundation for me to cement my victory in the counters. First of all, I want to commend Cosmic yet again (I know, the praise is getting tiring) for at least making this debatable (which ends now). So without further ado, let's whip out our surgical knifes-

1. Cosmic has no argument outside of speed, and without a counter to my durability argument he will lose

If you've been reading along carefully, from the moment he posted his opener to his 1st round of rebuttals, he knew that speed was his largest and most blatant advantage. So, despite the fact I already conceded Guy was faster, he kept hammering the fact in my face, driving his point home. That's an excellent strategy (keeping an advantage when you have one) but the problem is how hilariously vulnerable he's leaving himself for other sections of the debate, and how ignorant he is to my counter to it. One of my rebuttals were that Saitama wouldn't have to physically tag Guy, due to the fact that his punches generate shockwaves with continental AOE. Do you know what his counter to that was? "An AOE that didn't do anything but bust a city sized ship and dispersed some energy in the atmosphere." In other words, he basically resorted to debunking the power of the AOE instead giving an actual solid reason of how Guy can avoid it.

Conclusion? Guy can't. Now why is that important? Because Cosmic himself agreed that Might Guy has practically zero durability showings, so Cosmic knows that if Guy gets tagged by even a casual hit from Saitama he's dead. And that's why he's making such a big deal of speed, because he has absolutely no response for Guy's lack of durability against Saitama's punches. So even if he debunks Serious Punch and Roar Canon till Jesus comes back there's still the fact that Saitama's casual hits are Large Island+ and verge on small country (which he agreed was fair in his opener). Add that to the fact Saitama has inescapable continental AOE and Guy has no path to victory.

This is what ultimately swayed me to vote for Vulcan, this was perfect, and honestly I don't disagree with it. Cosmic never really put forth any particular arguments or claims as to how Guy was going to put down Saitama to begin with.....Speed is a nice accessory, but it doesn't automatically win battles otherwise my favorite mid tiers such as Meliodas would be beating Thor......

2. Debunking Saitama isn't helping him, and if it was not anymore

This has been a major focus of Cosmic's debate, debunking Saitama and reducing his power drastically below the popular opinion or what is normally accepted (stuff like saying that he's "hypersonic at best" or below country in striking). Well, I'm here to tell you now that it's pointless, because half of the stuff he debunks are claims I didn't even make, and he's using it to point away the focus and intentions of my main argument. In other words, he's pulling a Red Herring. Purposely debunking statements I never said in order to make it look like he's doing something, or tearing apart arguments that don't pertain to me at all (which gives the illusion that he's winning). This was the case with most of the "counters" in his opener, and I'll point out when he does it again in these rebuttals.

I also ended up agreeing with this, although Cosmic was beating him debating wise, he was beating him in areas where it didn't matter completely(this is partially why Vulcan was carried by his character)

3. Cosmic's lack of versatility with Guy is depressing

Instead of focusing on aspects of Guy's powerset like skill and experience, (he tried with skill but didn't use demonstrate it to be a key player in H2H) he views if he somehow manages to abuse Guy's speed advantage it'd be able overcome his durability and strength shortcomings. While I admitted it's a good strategy, I'm not that lazy of a debater to regocnize that CL knows he only has one road to victory, which I will surely cock block. For example, if I equalized speed in this debates' opener, Cosmic while have nothing- absolutely nothing. I have proved Saitama to be superior in every other category (except skill), which I will do as many times as it takes to get my point across. Now that I've gotten to the root of the problem, I'd love to see how he proves Guy is more durable than Saitama, or how he has more striking power; without using embarrasing fan calcs about the Earth's density and other laughable stuff.

4. Cosmic's overall performace has been enormous, but it's not big enough

This has less to do with the actual debate and counters than my first three points, but I just wanted to convey this message to him. He put himself at such a disadvantage, using a character without an uproar of feats; and one that relies on scaling more than his opponent. In order for him to sway the opinion of the populace, he needs to do an outstanding job with his debating while simultaneously representing his character perfectly and proving Guy to be superior in various areas than Saitama (which I'll try my hardest to disallow him from doing). Overall this debate is very well grounded but now that I'm going at it full force I'm interested to see what direction he takes his third post in, considering I've shut down his main route to victory and will continue to apprehend other ones.

Arguments that I'm dropping

I'm going to drop my argument of Saitama being relativistic. It wasn't really going anywhere and doesn't help at all

The amazing thing about this post is how well he read into the entire debate, and realized all the major issues instantly and realized what arguments was necessary and what arguments his opponents was making overall.

Further into the post he continued making similar caliber counters to what you see in the section above.

1.Regarding speed

Speed this, speed that- blitz this, blitz that. Let me be frank- who cares? At this point it's become obvious you have no other direction to take this so I'll cut it off here. Guy being faster than Saitama doesn't take away from the fact that his speed advantage is all for naught, as I already voiced in my "Dissecting the Debate" section of this post. Blitzing Saitama is an option, but it's not like he'll get anything out of it. None of Guy's striking feats outside of breaking the TSB hold a candle to Boros' moon kick. As for Guy breaking Madara's TSB (his best striking feat), I can easily debunk that but utilizing the logic you emplyed to debunk Saitama's serious punch and roar canon. One being because it wasn't visually impressive and didn't destroy the surrounding area outside the TSB itself ( believe me, I'm not twisting his words- this is how his logic went), and the other is that it's possibly an outlier considering up until that moment Guy had no large country+ striking feats. That's exactly how you debunked Roar canon, by saying it didn't destroy anything other than the ship meaning it was weak and by saying it was an outlier due to Boros possibly bluffing.

2. Regarding the validity of claims

- You tried to debunk roar canon by saying it only busted the ship and serious punch by saying it only split the atmosphere, then went on to make a dozen claims about Guy that fell flat to the same logic

- You tried somehow equate the base of the God tree stump to a large country, then called Guy's Night Moth country lvl for leaving a tiny nick of an explosion near it

- You used calcs about the Earth's density to wank EE to the point where Guy would be somehow near moon lvl in striking?

- You also used multiple anime scans, links, and videos to downplay manga canon

- You used multiple red herrings to twist my words and rewrite my arguments in your favor

- Time to time you would debunk claims I didn't make

- You implied Rock Lee to have superior meteor busting than Saitama

- You called Naruto a moon+ buster on-panel

So yea, I can point out a bunch of crazy stuff you said too (last one still gives me chills) but the fact of the matter stands you used more speculation. I'm itching to see the vote reasons as well, though I know I probably lost some votes based on how weak my opener was compared to yours and the lack of effort in my first set of counters. But now? Game on

Honestly, if it wasn't for the Red Herings and strawman's I would have gave Cosmic the vote due to his creative perspective on this fight, and the quality of his posts and counters, and the amount of effort he put in just like Vulcan said above, but honestly the very claims you made along with the double standards made me shy away from this.

So at the end of the day @god_vulcan takes it barely. Cosmic could have won if he stayed on task and wasn't trying to counter claims he never made, while trying so hard to give Guy advantages he reasonably doesn't have like strength and durability.....

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#229 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Sorry. I didn't get your tag. Thanks for the vote and the detailed explanation

@deathhero61 Thanks for the vote and the in-depth analysis.

Question for both of you. How differently do you think the debate would have went if every post had as much effort into it as my last one? I'm still regretting how ugly my 2nd round of counters were

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#230 Edited by DeathHero61 (18765 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Then the arguments would have been more circular, but there wouldn't have been much doubt regarding you winning.

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#231 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Huh. Circular arguments are a pain.

But thanks. I leaned a lot from this encounter

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#232 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Had all your posts as much effort as the final one, then I would say the results would be much more decisive.

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#233 Posted by NakkLeVaar_1A (36 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama godstomps narutoverse, wth is might guy?

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#234 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8007 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama godstomps narutoverse, wth is might guy?

stop it, this is a CaV.

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#235 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

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#236 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

bump 4 votes

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#237 Edited by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#240 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26887 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow this is still on?

Online
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#241 Edited by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

Wow this is still on?

I was so anxious as to why a CaV with nearly 40 people who asked to be tagged went silent... Cosmic didn't tag everyone the first time.

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#242 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26887 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Prolly cause it took so long and because viners are lazy liars.

Online
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#243 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Prolly cause it took so long and because viners are lazy liars.

Both are true and I'm a culprit of the last statement

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#244 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16790 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: You get my vote, some of the things @cosmic_lantern said he didn't support. For example

Strength/Striking/DC:

Another area where Guy is superior to Saitama.

Or

  • Guy Hits harder than Saitama

It doesn't makes sense to me how you can claim that after seeing the feats proposed by God Vulcan. I thought you were going to try to debate your way around a obvious mismatch but you instead claimed things that were obviously untrue while not correctly supporting your claims.

So like I said earlier, all it did was bust a city sized ship with this little effect being dispersed energy in the atmosphere. If he truly was in the striking class you're suggesting he would have busted the meteor on contact as well in your other feat. Your theory of Saitama somehow equating to Country/Continent level (Lol @ a solid mass that size at that) does not add up consistently nor factually.

This was your reply to Saitama's jet stream feat. You can see it is easily continent level, especially because he didn't even punch solid mass, the concussive force of his punch separated the jetstream around earth. Many of the things in your post do not make sense.

Or another one

To put it blunt the atmosphere is 0.0012g per centimeter the density of earth is 5.5g per centimeter, miles deep with a shockwave of a punch is quantifiably amazing, I'd be willing to wager Guy can punch saitama through the moon. I shouldn't have to point out how inferior in perspective this is when placed in a striking scenario but lets do simple math, even though they were clearly off the ground I'll say 60 miles just cause, 60m = 9,656,064cm x 0.0012g = 11,587.3g or 25.5 pounds of resistance there on the other hand lets downplay Guys to 3 miles deep 3m = 482,803cm x 5.5g = 2,655,416.5g or 5,854.2 pounds of resistance through mass almost denser than most metals, even one mile would be 1,951 pounds. This is of course ignoring a crap load of variables such as Madara actually resisting to a degree, the unknown minerals in the ground, being quite a deal airborne, etc. However you can't say the same on Boros' end.

Underlined part is insane.

  • Saitama has no durability feats to suggest he could take Multiple of Guys hits

...

Just wasn't a good debate on your part @cosmic_lantern

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#245 Edited by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Finally someone came through, thank you so much for voting.

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#246 Edited by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio

Votes

VotersGod_VulcanCosmic_LanternTotal for VulcanTotal for CL
DrPepperMan1062
Thenewguysnm101
darthjhawk01
Chaos23910
Lvenger10
Deathhero6110
Cable_Extreme10
AlexTheBoss10
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#247 Edited by AlexTheBoss (17423 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: @god_vulcan:

Good debate.

I feel cosmic put a bit more effort in however my vote goes to god vulcan though, and here are my reasons.

First off with speed, I think I will go as far as saying Cosmic may of one the debate in this aspect as he just provided way more examples, and more that were calculable. Though I think he waisted a lot of time comparing Guy to weaker characters like Kisame and Kakashi. Both are much slower than Saitama, so there is no need to really compare them when you can just compare him to characters like Jubito and Juubidara. He could of just showed an example of how he was faster than one lightning speed character and just moved on from there.

Next, physical strength. I saw a few mistakes. First off you can't really say 7 gate's Guy attack dwarfed that island because the island was in the background, so it is a matter of perspective and how far back the island is. However Cosmic did a lot of lowballing like saying Guy pushing Madara a few miles in the ground was more impressive than any of Saitama's feats when even the giant created a crater a few miles deep and a few miles wide. Tbh even that feat is comparable if not better than Guy's. Also Cosmic said Saitama one shotting the giant isn't a mountain+ level feat because we don't know if the giant has mountain level durability, yet the giant creates a mountain+ sized crater and his body didn't fall apart, making his durability at least that level. God Vulcan had a much easier time on this section since he just had so many feats to pull from and plenty of simple scaling to go off of, like Genos' early mountain bust.

What I think really leans the fight to Vulcan is durability. There is really just no way to argue in Guy's favor hear. He breaks apart when fighting in 8 gates, even if he can keep using it the force of his final attack was still too much for his body to endure and broke his bones. Saitama didn't even get minor injuries when casually doing his at leas mountain+ level feats.

Overall good debate, Cosmic did well in actually making me question if Guy may have a chance, but in reality all god vulcan needed to do was stay on topic, show Saitama's feats and how Guy can't take the hits while Saitama can, which he did.

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#248 Posted by HigherPower (12294 posts) - - Show Bio
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#249 Posted by KingZod (3992 posts) - - Show Bio

That sure took a while. I'll go through both your last posts and have my vote up tomorrow

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#250 Posted by cooljammy18 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Felt you prove that Saitama could tank Guy's hits but not the other way around. My vote goes to you.