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#101 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8024 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: I will admit you're beginning to grow on me seeing as you're not the typical ComicWhiner who moans about someone talking to them a certain way online....

I agree one shouldn't complain about being adressed harshly, however you can't justify insulting someone online. IMO if you say something online, you should only do it if you'd have the balls to do it in real life. Also, i think your taking this a bit too seriously. It's just a CaV for fun.

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#102 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#103 Posted by MaiitoGuy8 (399 posts) - - Show Bio

When does voting start?

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#104 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@maiitoguy8: Cosmic has two more posts left and I have 1 more

Though idk if we'll finish anytime soon so hold tight. Voting my come quicker depends on Cosmic's motivation to finish.

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#105 Posted by KingZod (3995 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan Too late to ask for a tag?

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#106 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingzod: Not at all. I got u

@cosmic_lantern People are getting anxious lol

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#107 Posted by BOLTOK100 (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: got a follow from me I would ask to t4v but simply because you didn't straw man an insult/belittle like ur opponent I would vote based on that merit alone ty for actual feats an not childish tactics

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#108 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: give me a few more days, I'll have something by Friday depending on my mood.

@boltok100: I'm sorry sir you are beneath me, it's just the way things are. However if all you can grasp is 'insults' from my post I'm quite sure you didn't read it. I'd however welcome your vote if it doesn't consist of "CL is mean!" Essentially.

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#109 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#110 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17681 posts) - - Show Bio

Can I get a T4V? I am not sure I like the tone of this CaV but I am interested in the characters (started watching and reading OPM and I am planning to start the second Naruto series sometime soon).

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#111 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#112 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17681 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Thanks, I'm gonna need it. Lol. You called this your flagship CaV or something, so I hope it's really good.

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#113 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Tbh not really. Either way I'll try to deliver my best performance in my closer

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#114 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17461 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#115 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V (why is this even being debated anyway?)

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#116 Posted by BOLTOK100 (721 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: nah I wouldn't waste my time enjoy the arrogance no one is beneath you thanks for ruining s good cab for me I was enjoying it until the God complex

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#117 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@boltok100: My arrogance is well placed my good man and I just love to call the bluff of others, it's just the right combination IMO. Also I didn't ruin it for you, you came in the thread throwing suggestive accusations towards me so whatever your fued it was long before this CAV.

You could say I have a superiority complex and basically spit in my opponents face however there's a method to the madness, I assure you I respect GV more than any of these so called 'experts' on these boards. It's just I don't sugarcoat what I'm thinking which makes the lesser of thinkers moan about that rather than focus on my argument.

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#118 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

GrandMaster Guy:

No Caption Provided

Quick Counters:

^ Sorry, but that whole thing wasn't needed. Numerous scaling to other characters and all it proves is something that we already know; Guy was MHS at that point, and that doesn't even trump Garou's speed. Later in the webcomic Garou virtually blitzed the entire verse (all the high tier S-Class heroes and Dragon lvl threats) some of whom are massively hypersonic (Like LS Flash, Golden Sperm, and Tatsumaki) and was outpacing casual Saitama who's in the low-relativistic range. But yes I know Guy is fast, I never made the argument that Saitama was faster, just that he wouldn't get blitzed if he was serious

But it was. I've given you a clear basis of speed to suggest how fast guy is whilst you keep spouting the same nonsense of Saitama being relativistic with just about nothing for us to take from it but your word. It's not going to cut it bud, you have no feats to suggest he could perceive Guys speed so it's only right for me to say Guy blitzes until you can soundly disprove the statement.

Those would be impressive, but both Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger are inferior to Saitama's island lvl+ meteor busting, so you still have yet to prove a feat from Guy that trumps Saitama in striking.

Thats saitama's best striking feat and you are clearly blowing the size out of proportion and its probably in the large mountain size but(Which would blow the cities in New york away pretty easily) you can get a pretty clear shot of it compared to the city, Im in no way buying it's superiority over Hirudora which is an AoE attack as well. Not to mention it is again hinged on more exaggerated character statements in the first place.

Prove the Meteor is Island level, it seems like a reasonable request especially since it involves a showing pertinent to your argument.

None of those things pertain to the actual feat. The AOE was just the shockwave left over from the punch, and I don't even know what explosion you're talking about, nor did there have to be one.

So not only are you sidestepping my argument, you're also misusing your very own evidence by not having the full context of it:

No Caption Provided

So like I said earlier, all it did was bust a city sized ship with this little effect being dispersed energy in the atmosphere. If he truly was in the striking class you're suggesting he would have busted the meteor on contact as well in your other feat. Your theory of Saitama somehow equating to Country/Continent level (Lol @ a solid mass that size at that) does not add up consistently nor factually.

>

You're basing feat superiority based on visual scale? LOL. You would hate the webcomic then (and no wonder you downplayed the hell out of serious punch and roar canon). Not only that, Guy's attack was incredibly small compared to the God tree, whose base is multi-mountain sized; so in other words, you have still yet to prove anything superior to Saitama.

Yea. Im stating that since it's basically irrefutable that the god tree is perceivable from space Guy landing a hit on the base of it thats viewable from a similar angle is impressive. Funny how you rip me on using a visual scale then claim it was small in comparison.

Also, lol @ the god tree being Multi-mountain:

No Caption Provided

The god tree stump is larger than those meteors and just the debris is dwarfing mountain ranges. The god tree Is legitamitely a large chunk of a super continent, it easily is the size of a large country.

I showed manga scans that prove it's larger than that one pic and I'm using the weakest version of Saitama (the continental+ one) so I don't care for databook statements.

You didn't. Nor did you prove saitama is anywhere near continent level. You need something as Im beginning to get impatient, it's going in the same circle.

I'm not using that map, there's too much contradiction to believe the cities in OPM are country sized, like Beefcake destroying one by swinging his hand then busting another one by falling on it. And Boros' ship is clearly city sized, the pic in the OP is enough to prove that

So you concede on the ship being city sized, Excellent.

You know the best part about that scan you just posted? Because it shows just how large the area Boros vaporized was, as it scales to this:

At the absolute best this is a city level blast.

You trying to debunk Boros' roar canon because it didn't destroy a continent isn't fair. You're saying because the AOE didn't do more than destroy the ship it wasn't continental, but let's see some key factors and compare it's similarities to Naruto and Sasuke's clash at the valley of the end.

This really isn't going to work for you.

1. Saitama and Boros were aerial when their two attacks met. So were Naruto and Sasuke when Indra's Arrow clashed with Six Paths Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken

Also note that Naruto and Sasuke were a great deal higher:

No Caption Provided

Thats where Sasuke was last hit and where he began charging Indras Arrow in the next page btw, Irrefutably above the clouds compared to:

No Caption Provided

2. Saitama overpowered the beam and cleaved it into two, and the shockwave of the punch still had enough force to overload Boros' regeneration and travel tens of thousands of miles across the planet. When Naruto and Sasuke's jutsu collided it created shockwaves that were felt countries away

It also completely destroyed two avatars with proven Multi-Country level durability, caused a storm all over the world with lightning capable of completely destroying forests, and caused massive collateral damage despite how high they were. These are again all irrefutable:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

3. We know Naruto and Sasuke's attacks were country+, and we know Saitama can bust meteors and create small country lvl explosions visible from space

Saitama's meteor was not country level at all, nor does this mean he can bust a land mass that size when he didn't even completely destroy it in the first place. On the otherhand I can give you a plethora of evidence to suggest Naruto or Sasuke are irrefutably in that range of DC along with several others in the series which means it's consistent.

Based on these 3 points, you're reasoning for why Boros' roar canon is invalid and somewhat hypocritical considering you're holding the OPM series to a double standard. As for my voters, if you want me to use Guy I can. Going of my opponents logic, Might Guy's Hirudora dwarfed an island, but since it didn't actually bust the island it's not island lvl. Same thing with Night Guy, the environmental damage was no where near as powerful as it should've been considering how strong the attack was.

Except Hirudora not only oneshot Susanoo to testament its power and AoE but Night guy is solidly where it needs to be, it's indirect impact is country level as he hit Madara who has multi-country durability as well with it. You didn't really debunk anything here honestly, you're only hurting yourself by not doing research on both parties.

Roar Canon is invalid because it has no supporting evidence and plenty of discrediting evidence, you're not even attempting to provide a smidgen of it.

So back to my conclusion? You can't downplay Serious Punch and Roar Canon because it didn't destroy anything in it's immediate vicinity, it was stated to be a surface wiper (no reason for Boros to be bluffing), and it was shown that the range of the attack was continental per this scan

It did, the city sized ship which is what level this feat is on. The effect is negligible and can be explained in a number of ways which you refuse to accept, your conclusion is irrelevant as it pertains to nothing solid.

What are you talking about? Are you trying to say it's an outlier now? Smh, if we label every high end showing for a character as an outlier because we think they're weak then entire verses wuld be drastically lower. it's not an outlier because it needed a serious attack from Saitama to do so, and though we've never seen his upper limits we know his weaker and casual punches are country lvl. Continental for Roar Canon is fair game

Yea, it's inconsistent with the entire series and it has no business being on the same stepping stool as what you're making it out to be. When we look at it logically you don't seem to like it so we'll just just let the voters decide as you're being extremely obtuse by saying attacks on city scale (even multiple cities) equate to country - continent level.

Most calcs that quantified Boros' moon kick used the cinematic timeframe from the anime, in which it took him around 3 seconds to make the trip (low relativistic). The impact not being drastic doesn't lessen the feat to be honest. When Saitama came back from the moon with the force of a small meteorite he barely made a crater

Thats quite a bit less than half the speed of light. how does the impact not lessen the feat? This feat is again another hyped up fan calc that completely disregards the Gravity between the earth and moon. I mean it's cool and all he kicked him to the moon in a few seconds but looking at it quantifiably it's nothing special, especially the return which I'll get to in a moment.

Lightning is only MHS, which isn't impressive at this point.

Once again, upward speed is a third of the speed of light. Show me a single feat that suggests Saitama has combat speed in that Range.

I want to bring Toneri into this so bad... I'm sorry, but seeing a Naruto fan debunk a moon feat is just so out of the ordinary. And Saitama busted about a third of the surface

Do whatever you need to bud, Naruto has destroyed landmass larger than a moon on panel so Toneri splitting it isn't out of the ordinary. Can you see correctly? I'll be generous and say the anime depiction is a 4-5th of it but that's just hilarious.

Oneshotting a mass that dwarfs mountains would put you at mountain lvl. If Guy oneshotted the Shinju Tree, he would multi-mountainf for doing so, based on how large it is. If a character can bust something larger than a planet in size, they wouldn't be anything less than planet level. Besides, the next tier after city lvl is mountain lvl, and Beefcake destroys cities by flicking his wrist. So when he knocks Saitama into the ground and pounds away, he creates a crater (that when calc'd by pixels) is comparable to him in depth (somewhere around mountain lvl)

Oneshotting a mass thats taller than a mountain does not mean mountain level, but sure, we'll roll with it. However saying saitama is mountain level in striking for beating him is a fallacy.

Um... that scan showed his face with some DBZ rage, yet he blew the top off that mountain without any strain. Basically he poured all of his power into that blast against Kabuto, so it couldn't be anything less than city to mountain and Kabuto overpowered it by exhaling

He was clearly damaged....I shouldn't have to tell you a boxer is going to hit harder when he's at 100% rather than struggling to stand.

It was still potent enough to no-sold a mountain lvl blast and was capable of wiping out multiple cities

Which would mean Mountain+ right? That's all we've seen from genos as per your concession.

Madar's meteor was pretty powerful but it was stopped rather easily. His only saving grace was that there were two but yea regardless it's impressive.

This has nothing to do with the size comparrison, Madaras meteor was larger but no way in hell is it country level. Since I see you didn't attempt to refute it I'm guessing you're agreeing with me.

Lee had the help of several other taijutsu users, all of whom were in sixth gate... So that feat is shared with like bunch of unnamed fodder. Though I can agree he contributed most of the force

LOL! Lee was hailed as nothing short of a prodigy for being able to open the 5th gate where Kakashi himself remarks it should be impossible, it then took Lee 2 more years to master the sixth gate in shippuden. So not only are you attempting to argue some fodder are somehow up to Lee's capability (he taught those gated users btw which makes this statement even more laughable) but they can use six of the eight gates similar to him along with learn them in a shorter time? Bullcrap. At absolute best you can say they were 4th gate as thats where the boost begins majorly, my lord Lee doesn't even Open the sixth gate until he makes contact with the meteor so now you're back to telling lies again. Let's take another look.

Also take note of what busting a meteor looks like as you clearly have it confused.

If you read OPM I'm sure you'd know about the context... Everyone's ife was on the line and Genos was making a critical analysis. There was no way in hell he was exaggerating. Similar to Boros who stated he was using all of his power

character statement =/= Manga fact.

Called it! I knew at some point you would say the explosion was just the light, but in reality the interior of the meteor was blue (you posted a scan showing that), and when it exploded the shockwaves from it being dispersed were also blue. There isn't much of a difference between mountain+ and multi mountain so I'm not gonna debunk that. I also agree that the art of OPM is fantastic which is one of the reasons why the anime is wanked so hard

So by your very own concession Saitama didn't really cause the explosion just triggered it and the resulting explosion was from the interior of the meteor not his punch? Mk.

Glad to know we agree on several things

Indeed. You've done nothing but supplement my argument without me having to work for it, bravo.

Garou had precog too, and Saitama overcame that. Though idk if you've read the webcomic so I'm gonna have to post scans on it sooner or later

Feats that put it anywhere near Madaras or Naruto's capability like I showcased?

A at absolute best is a lightning timer. Garou was blitzed an entire tier of characters around that speed

Do you know what upward speed is? Y'know the thing I CLEARLY have outlined several times over and how it's quite a deal faster than your regular cloud to ground? Now since I just know you do, kindly point to those 'lightning timer' feats and how an entire tier of those characters exist when you're showing me FTE feats in comparison to my own?

That was just a low end feat. 90% of all shonen manga have FTE characters

That's your problem than, Im basing this 100% off what you've shown me and it's nothing part 1 characters couldn't accomplish speed wise.

His best speed feat is trading blows with Saitama, who is faster than hypersonic.

Who you again have no sort of gist of speed with.....you're also scaling saitama off garou and his best feat is trading blows with saitama. I'd just concede here all together to save yourself the embarrassment of having to cover your steps.

That chibaku tensei thing was random, and Pain doesn't have any significant speed feats except for ganging up on Kakashi, who is supposedly a lightning timer.

Concession accepted. Feat ignored.

Has it ever occured to you that Kakashi is faster than Base Naruto?

Where are you getting these numbers from? Aim-dodging lightning does take microsecond reactionary, but there are many other variables to be accounted for- one of them being Itachi never actually dodged Kirin (had reacted to it though by deploying Susanoo)

What the fook m8? Are you being series right now? he didn't react to lightning, but he reacted with Susanoo........What sort of bull you feedin me here? It's irrefutable that if the lightning touches the ground in a milisecond he reacted in microseconds (I.E between miliseconds) to stop it. He didn't need to physically move as Sharingan does not require movement.

Which is fast, but unquantifiable. Tbh I don't wanna spam Garou's scans so if you want to know his stats just check the respect thread that I made for him some time ago

It blows those scans that you showed with Garou out of the water, showing that fight is nothing spectacular in comparrison. That's a DIRECT comparrison to what you've shown saitama could do and it's undeniably superior.

Im not looking at a respect thread in a CaV,debating is your goal, if you can't bring the proof to me and the audience than you're fighting a losing battle by default.

Even reading those scans, you know damn well it couldn't have taken that long; Boros literally made ONE statement after he jumped and Saitama was back. An extreme lowball is 10 seconds, which means he still punched in at mach 120,000 (low relativistic). But I know what you're gonna say "that's not a combat feat!!", but Saitama jumping at those speed suggest he can run at those speeds, something which can be tied to combat. And to put it into context, the distance between the moon and earth is 384,000 km, which means all 9 planets in the solar system can fit in it side by side with room to spare- so Saitama can leap interplanetary diameters in a single bound (what's more impressive is Boros kicking him there)

That's an absolutely absurd suggestion, how does Jumping = Running = Combat speed? Is he going to jump at guy whilst he's bombarding him with hundreds of blows?

An actual combat speed showing (though much slower) is blitzing SOS Sonic, who can make use of speed clones (high hypersonic at least). Merely shifting side to side created dozens of speed clones, and he was able to walk while doing it. In sonic words, "it was an infinite amount of clones faster than him" (this is a MHS combat feat, making just a couple speed clones requires high hypersonic body movements, especially if they're fast enough to attack independently)

You're claiming lightning isnt impressive but are resorting to after Images as a combat feat and attempting to play it at MHS? But Guy isn't LS for CLEARLY breaking the light barrier? My god I need a recess, court.

I've seen this argument before. Boros said he uses his latent energy to propel his physicals, he doesn't actually release energy in his strikes. It's like humans; we use energy from calories stored in our body to complete daily activities, and even though we expend energy were not physically releasing it in a tangible form outside. What proves my point is the fact the Boros HIMSELF compared using Meteoric Burst to anaerobic excercise

I guess he did the same when he vaporized the top of the ship?

So no, you're attempt to lowball Boros' punch due to using energy is false. The only time Boros releases energy outside his body is when he projects it as a beam

Concession accepted, 7:06.

Tbh, I was gonna rip on you about that before, but good to know we both can acknowledge Guy doesn't have any actual durability feats to suggest he can tank Saitama's punches.

I've also established that he doesn't need them as Guy is fast and skilled enough to suggest Saitama has no Merit tagging him in almost anyway possible.

A character getting praised for their speed isn't an actaul feat, and it was already conceded that Kakashi was a lightning timer

It is when said character has never been blitzed by virtue of being too quick with perception hax.

Not impressive. Saitama one shotted a large country sized area of the moon by jumping

You'd be hard pressed proving it's country sized at all probably a small one, I showed you where Guy shattered a shield that tanked multiple Country busting attacks simultaneously in my opener along with showing you said attack destroying a country. Your interpretation is obscured as it's no way in hell thats a third of the moons surface, you're basing it off a cropped picture with a circle on the rest of it.

I'm not gonna lie to you, I forgot most of that, and it's probably more impressive than all the blitzing Garou had to do to get to where he's at. In terms of speed, Guy is one of the fastest in the Narutoverse, but nothing you've posted so far says he can blitz low relativistic characters. I see you keep nerfing Guy because you think 8 gates would be too much for Saitama, but you're hurting yourself here because nothing he's shown would blitz a Guy who can cross hundreds of thousands of miles in seconds to continue a fight. And if we want to use speculation, the timeframe it took Boros to kick him there is shorter and can be divided evenly between speed and strength to make both of them relativistic all around.

STOP SAYING RELATIVISTIC!

My god it's UNQUANTIFIABLE, relativistic IS NOT A SPEED, It is a calculation in its ratio to the speed of light. Just name dropping it isn't even an argument MACH 1 is technically Relativistic. I've shown you Madaras feats that easily label him LS, the fact that Guy moves faster than he can percieve is all I need to suggest that Saitama isn't seeing him anytime soon as he has absolutely no speed feats near his level.

Blitzing Madara and Night Guy are his best speed feats and place him at relativistic so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for them

You don't have a choice, they are irrefutably clean cut and leave no room for speculation.

How is this impressive? Boros kicked him to the the moon, and that distance can fit 30 earth sized planets side by side in-between it... lol you're getting impressed by miles

Yea, Lets get some real world facts involved to make you ignore me. Boros' kick is accomplishable by just about any solid midtier strikers (who actually physically bust mountains), Boros kicked Saitama 50 miles into the atmosphere before gravity decreased significantly increasing his outward velocity. Gravity is weaker in the Mesosphere, by the time he hit the thermosphere he's simply drifting a direction. Heres a good diagram for a better look:

No Caption Provided

Now why is Guys feat more impressive? Well for one the earth is the densest planet in the solar system:

No Caption Provided

To put it blunt the atmosphere is 0.0012g per centimeter the density of earth is 5.5g per centimeter, miles deep with a shockwave of a punch is quantifiably amazing, I'd be willing to wager Guy can punch saitama through the moon. I shouldn't have to point out how inferior in perspective this is when placed in a striking scenario but lets do simple math, even though they were clearly off the ground I'll say 60 miles just cause, 60m = 9,656,064cm x 0.0012g = 11,587.3g or 25.5 pounds of resistance there on the other hand lets downplay Guys to 3 miles deep 3m = 482,803cm x 5.5g = 2,655,416.5g or 5,854.2 pounds of resistance through mass almost denser than most metals, even one mile would be 1,951 pounds. This is of course ignoring a crap load of variables such as Madara actually resisting to a degree, the unknown minerals in the ground, being quite a deal airborne, etc. However you can't say the same on Boros' end.

None of those striking are impressive. Evening Elephant is inferior to Boros' MB punch that vaporized kilometers of his metallic ship into molten slag and incinerated most of the crew living inside

Evening elephant would take the entire ship from the sky.

That's his best striking feat, and going of your logic earlier when debunking roar canon the environmental damage means that the attack was extremely weak.

Cept even when Madaras body absorbed most of the hit it created a country sized explosion on the tree:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Not to mention I've already shown you durability feats for the Juubi/God Tree in my opener, It's taken Country level attacks without flinching.

No but seriously, Night Guy is impressive, but Saitama no sold a kick that sent him to the moon and bending space was more speed than anything. In terms of DC, you haven't proven it enough to overcome Saitama's absurd durability, and Guy literally shattered his leg and practically died for that feat, so it's definitely not something he'd use in character.

I have, you just refuse to accept it by repeating the same thing over and over. The OP states strongest versions of each character, unless you plan on cheesing a win by having Guy down himself via gates I can't say he wouldn't use night moth(Not that he'd have to at all).

No it was relativistic. Objects moving at or close to the speed of light gain infinite mass and nigh-infinite energy, and Guy obviously had neither of those

That is a theory that has been disproven by the genuine fact that more than several natural phenomenon happen FTL, it is a highly accommodated theory but just that at the end of the day. Also it isn't infinite its Incalculable. The scientific term for what Guy did can be either Quantum Entanglement due to the irrefutable fact that he bent light particles or Gravitational lensing which has to do with Light reflecting through star systems to 'warp space'. As a matter of fact both of these are FTL, you can google them both if you need to.

Also that's just a hilarious argument, should I ask you to prove he doesn't have either? He theoretically caused a black hole effect by bending light as well as warping the space around him. It's no way to quantifiably discredit this feat being LS when he litterally breaks the light barrier.

Madara reacted to Night Guy but couldn't do anything aboiut because space was warped, so I guess saying he has nanosecond reaction time is fair but Guy blitzing Madara moments before doesn't really make sense, especially considering Night Guy was his fastest quantifiable attack

How doesn't it make sense? EE is a lotus formation that focuses speed in a short circular range to reign down on the enemy. If by your very own admittance he can percieve in the nanosecond range yet can't keep track of Guy it's safe to say he's moving inbetween that timeframe constantly. Feats to suggest Saitama can move at this level?

Then please my good sir, post me a single durability showing that suggest Guy can tank Saitama attacks?

That's what I thought.

I don't need any because you've already conceded on the fact that Guy is irrefutably faster than saitama even in earlier forms so it's no argument for him being able to even see guy at any point during this battle to hit him.

And before you say Guy can dodge his punches, please remember the range of Saitama's hits (AOE):

An Aoe that didn't do anything but bust a city sized ship and dispersed some energy in the atmosphere.

Your post had more scaling and speculation than mine actually

You attempted to equate jumping to running to fighting, went from Island to country on the meteor size several times, and are basing Saitama breaking a 4th of the moon on a non-canon fan pixel scale. I can't wait to read these vote reasons, I know im losing a load of points for my overall attitude but this is simply comical. All like I predicted in my Opener.

Except it wasn't a bluff nor a gloat because he put his life on the line, and the statement is 100% true. I already debunked the reasoning for why you think roar canon is weaker than it actually is

It was a gloat.....Literally the entire fight he was boasting about his power. You haven't debunked anything, just attempt to highball some solid mid-tier characters into DC powerhouses with rather absurd size estimations.

AOE means range, I wasn't saying that splitting the atmosphere in half was a DC feat, but rather the range of Saitama's blows can generate shockwaves around the planet (which they can). And a single cloud weighs millions of pounds btw, dispersing that many which leftover energy which actually be impressive when quantified

A cloud is a nigh-formless mass that is basically a liquid, an airplane will split a cloud by flying through it. Not to mention a clouds density is only .5 grams a meter, only the individual raindroplets accumulate that much weight. Also, so you are also admitting to the cause of this effect was disperesed energy throughout the atmosphere?

Mk.

Why Guy dies:

1. Doesn't have the durability feats to tank punches from Saitama

he won't get hit here, EVER, I've effectively outlined that Guy is several tiers ahead of Saitama in both Skill and speed. It's no way possible for Saitama to tag Guy, even accidentally.

2. Even if he's faster he can't dodge Saitama's attacks because of their widespread AOE/area of influence

Added on to the fact that Guy towers over Saitama speed wise he can completely immobilize him with EE off the bat which he will obviously get off much faster in a plentiful amount due to the staggering advantage in combat speed aswell.

3. Even if he's fast enough to blitz Saitama (Saitama doesn't have too many reaction feats) nothing he has in his arsenal can put him down or overload his durability. Night Moth is inferior to the Moon kick (except for speed), EE is inferior to Boros' superheated punch- as well as Beefcakes, Kabuto's, and Garou's barrage. Afternoon Tiger and Morning peacock aren't as impressive as Saitama's meteor busting or his moon jump.

Concession accepted, saitama doesn't have the feats to react to guy. I've Shown the feats necessary to suggest Guy is in a superior striking class than his durability allows, if you think so we'll let the voters decide as you haven't proven just about anything coming out of your mouth atm.

A kick to the moon didn't even make him flinch, nothing Guy has can oneshot Saitama

Guy oneshots miles of landmass with shockwaves of his blows, and busts country+ constructs with indirect hits. A direct hit should be fatal to saitama.

Saitama just has better feats tbh. Both of them are bricks, purely physical fighters, and Saitama's on-panel showings > Guy's.

Only someone with the most shaded sight of prejudice and favoritism could suggest Saitama is a superior combatant than Guy. Especially basing off what you've shown so far, you're just bringing light to your own bias tbh.

Back to the conclusion:

  • The sheer gap in physical speed alone should make this battle unwinnable for Saitama, he can not keep up with Guys level of speed whatsoever and judging from his showings with Madara he wouldn't be able to see him at all.
  • Saitama has no durability feats to suggest he could take Multiple of Guys hits
  • Saitama won't be able to move in the slightest this entire fight due to Evening elephant spam, meaning Guy can get in any number of hits he wants.
  • Even if we do go with my opponents unbased mechanics of how saitama fights and that he spams AoE punches (somehow completely ignoring those three things) the Lotus is the Ideal counter for it and Guy would simply change direction.
  • Saitama does not have the stats or skill to make this battle more than an everyday work-out for him by making him a levitating punching bag. This fight will have been well over by the time Saitama touches the ground basically
  • Basically This fight is like this song, @3:57 Guy elevates and it's all she wrote:
Loading Video...

@god_vulcan Sorry it took so long but CV doesn't seem to work for me unless I just recently got laid, am moderately intoxicated, or need to be doing something else atm. Otherwise I have to use I.E or 'microsoft edge', the shittiest web browser in human history.

However I don't need to be Drunk, Horny, or otherwise busy to see Guy wins Handily here. Your go bud.

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#119 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: Great post! I'll try my hardest to get a response up in the coming week. And don't worry about it bro

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#120 Posted by linglung (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v please...

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#121 Posted by deactivated-5b57e45d84a85 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@boltok100: My arrogance is well placed my good man and I just love to call the bluff of others, it's just the right combination IMO. Also I didn't ruin it for you, you came in the thread throwing suggestive accusations towards me so whatever your fued it was long before this CAV.

You could say I have a superiority complex and basically spit in my opponents face however there's a method to the madness, I assure you I respect GV more than any of these so called 'experts' on these boards. It's just I don't sugarcoat what I'm thinking which makes the lesser of thinkers moan about that rather than focus on my argument.

That certainly doesn't show in the way you seem to speak to him in your posts tbh. It's hard to see you having respect to anyone that isn't a Naruto debater(Which technically GV is considering he debated for Naruto against Saitama)

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#122 Posted by emperorthanos- (16386 posts) - - Show Bio

This is getting pretty good. T4V if I haven't already. I may not vote but would still like to read.

Moderator
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#123 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7529 posts) - - Show Bio

:

This is getting pretty good. T4V if I haven't already. I may not vote but would still like to read.

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#124 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_blind_bandit: That's a stupid assessment with an even stupider assertion behind it. I could care less what line of fiction your into, you could be into only tentacle monster hentai and I'll still share a laugh with you, imo that's the point of the vine in connecting all forms of fiction. We are all one in the same on the vine, separating people by fan bases is just a joke and nothing more though their definitely are some hilarious fans on this site. I debunk all forms of fiction sir, from DBZ to classic strange, I have no personal preference in the least.

I hardly respect anyone on these boards as is but claiming it's only for other Naruto debaters? (Which most don't agree with me anyways, but are too scared to refute against it.) Is Anthp a Naruto debater? Is Arcus a Naruto debater? Is DH61 a Naruto debater? Is ET a Naruto debater? Is Lvenger a Naruto debater(He annoys me but I must admit I have stolen a lot of matierial from his CaVs)? Is SFW a Naruto debater? IS THEDAILYBAGEL A NARUTO DEBATER!?!? Etc. the latter being my favorite to watch.

I can talk to him the way I want to princess, it doesn't seem to bother him so why should I care about your irrelevant opinion on the matter? Perhaps you should take notes from GV about being mature on the internet, gonna need a thicker skin than that on the vine.

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#125 Posted by DeathHero61 (18772 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern said:

@boltok100: My arrogance is well placed my good man and I just love to call the bluff of others, it's just the right combination IMO. Also I didn't ruin it for you, you came in the thread throwing suggestive accusations towards me so whatever your fued it was long before this CAV.

You could say I have a superiority complex and basically spit in my opponents face however there's a method to the madness, I assure you I respect GV more than any of these so called 'experts' on these boards. It's just I don't sugarcoat what I'm thinking which makes the lesser of thinkers moan about that rather than focus on my argument.

That certainly doesn't show in the way you seem to speak to him in your posts tbh. It's hard to see you having respect to anyone that isn't a Naruto debater(Which technically GV is considering he debated for Naruto against Saitama)

Meh, I'm not gonna lie SOMETIMES, I'm the same way, you and a friend in a CAV can be at each others throats talking shit and acting cocky, but its mostly in good fun. Look at people like SFW and you can tell its the same thing here with Cosmiclantern. Its really not that serious. If this was anyone else, and I didn't know their personality, then I would be complaining as well, but I know CosmicLantern, and him acting this way is sort of an "in the moment" personality.

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#127 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26954 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Yeah it's IC for him... Hehehe...He...

Oh my God I'm a hilarious nerd.

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#128 Posted by Azureus (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a clarification. Relativistic applies to speed that are a *significant* fraction of the speed of light. Mach 1 isn't relativistic by any measure. Sorry to do this here, I just don't think it's worth putting it into the PMs.

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#129 Edited by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

Just a clarification. Relativistic applies to speed that are a *significant* fraction of the speed of light. Mach 1 isn't relativistic by any measure. Sorry to do this here, I just don't think it's worth putting it into the PMs.

I was following along until you threw this in there. Who in this debate is Mach 1?

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#130 Edited by Azureus (2589 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_vulcan said:
@azureus said:

Just a clarification. Relativistic applies to speed that are a *significant* fraction of the speed of light. Mach 1 isn't relativistic by any measure. Sorry to do this here, I just don't think it's worth putting it into the PMs.

I was following along until you threw this in there. Who in this debate is Mach 1?

I was referring to this statement by lantern. I wasn't saying anyone in this discussion is Mach 1.

"It is a calculation in its ratio to the speed of light. Just name dropping it isn't an argument Mach 1 is technically Relativistic."

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#131 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7529 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

Just a clarification. Relativistic applies to speed that are a *significant* fraction of the speed of light. Mach 1 isn't relativistic by any measure. Sorry to do this here, I just don't think it's worth putting it into the PMs.

I was following along until you threw this in there. Who in this debate is Mach 1?

cl said mach 1 can be considered relativistic thats why azureus said that like didnt you read his whole counter

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#132 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: I'll counter it tommorow. I've only skimmed through it

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#133 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Relativistic can apply to any form of mass in acceleration btw, The theory of relativity is that all motion must be defined to space/time.

Oh, I would ask you to delete the comment but hey, just give him the points. No need to work for it.

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#134 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7529 posts) - - Show Bio
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#135 Edited by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: 2 more. My 3rd post should be out today soon and then Cosmic will be up

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#136 Edited by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthjhawk: I forgot you asked to be tagged after every post. Cosmic recently responded and I'm pushing to get one up by today or tommorow

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#137 Posted by Darthjhawk (5478 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: oh dope thank you this is getting really good.

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#138 Edited by deactivated-5b57e45d84a85 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:
@the_blind_bandit said:
@cosmic_lantern said:

@boltok100: My arrogance is well placed my good man and I just love to call the bluff of others, it's just the right combination IMO. Also I didn't ruin it for you, you came in the thread throwing suggestive accusations towards me so whatever your fued it was long before this CAV.

You could say I have a superiority complex and basically spit in my opponents face however there's a method to the madness, I assure you I respect GV more than any of these so called 'experts' on these boards. It's just I don't sugarcoat what I'm thinking which makes the lesser of thinkers moan about that rather than focus on my argument.

That certainly doesn't show in the way you seem to speak to him in your posts tbh. It's hard to see you having respect to anyone that isn't a Naruto debater(Which technically GV is considering he debated for Naruto against Saitama)

Meh, I'm not gonna lie SOMETIMES, I'm the same way, you and a friend in a CAV can be at each others throats talking shit and acting cocky, but its mostly in good fun. Look at people like SFW and you can tell its the same thing here with Cosmiclantern. Its really not that serious. If this was anyone else, and I didn't know their personality, then I would be complaining as well, but I know CosmicLantern, and him acting this way is sort of an "in the moment" personality.

I suppose. But he seems to behave like this all the time to people he knows or doesn't know. And again it's not wrong, there are other who do this as well. but I just wanted to say that if you really respected someone you wouldn't speak to them the way he does.

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#139 Posted by deactivated-5b57e45d84a85 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_blind_bandit: That's a stupid assessment with an even stupider assertion behind it. I could care less what line of fiction your into, you could be into only tentacle monster hentai and I'll still share a laugh with you, imo that's the point of the vine in connecting all forms of fiction. We are all one in the same on the vine, separating people by fan bases is just a joke and nothing more though their definitely are some hilarious fans on this site. I debunk all forms of fiction sir, from DBZ to classic strange, I have no personal preference in the least.

I hardly respect anyone on these boards as is but claiming it's only for other Naruto debaters? (Which most don't agree with me anyways, but are too scared to refute against it.) Is Anthp a Naruto debater? Is Arcus a Naruto debater? Is DH61 a Naruto debater? Is ET a Naruto debater? Is Lvenger a Naruto debater(He annoys me but I must admit I have stolen a lot of matierial from his CaVs)? Is SFW a Naruto debater? IS THEDAILYBAGEL A NARUTO DEBATER!?!? Etc. the latter being my favorite to watch.

I can talk to him the way I want to princess, it doesn't seem to bother him so why should I care about your irrelevant opinion on the matter? Perhaps you should take notes from GV about being mature on the internet, gonna need a thicker skin than that on the vine.

Well this is certainly a vivid response. Did I hit a nerve? And it's simply what I have seen. You seem to show no respect to anyone who actually challenges your the stuff you say. The only people who do simply agree without are only Naruto debaters. Which is why I said it is hard seeing you respecting anyone who isn't a Naruto debater like you since you like to insult everyone who just disagrees with you. Though I probably worded that wrong.

Spouting out name of popular viners isn't going to convince me otherwise either. especially since I have seen how you have interacted with one or two of the viners you mentioned. Maybe you show respect to others by insulting them. Also I would say both DH61 and ET have debated naruto. The latter even used Sasuke in a high tier tourney though if you really repsected him you would know that.

I never said you shouldn't talk to him the way you do. Or that what you were doing was wrong. Plenty of other people do it on vine. All I simply said was that they way you talk to him here shows no sort of respect. So claiming you do, contradicts the way you have behaved towards him in this cav. Anyway I don't want to derail this cav which has actually been pretty good despite being a mismatch.

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#141 Edited by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern I tried to get a response up as quick as possible. I gave my all into this final post, hopefully you and the voters will like it. This post will be divided into 5 sections:

- "Apologies/Confessions"

- "Dissecting the debate"

- "Even Quicker counters"

- "Feat by feat comparison"

-"Conclusion/Scenarios"

*Also before I start I just wanna say kudos and bravo to my opponent CL for making this a fun and amazing debate. Despite outward appearance and attitude he's been really cool and chill, as well as a great debater and a challenging opponent.*

God Saitama

No Caption Provided

Apologies and Confessions

As I was reading through Cosmic's second to last post, something dawned on me, a feeling of dread I've never felt before. The counters was so good, that it was at that moment I began to realize something haunting- I might lose the debate.

My arguments were shaky and not well-grounded, while his were strong and hard hitting. I began to wonder "how did I f*ck up like this?" and it didn't take me a second to realize I had fell victim to superior character syndrome. Because the general consensus on CV is that Saitama stomps, I thought the debate would be a walk in the park and I wouldn't have to try at all (I also wasn't fond of CL at the time). So first and foremost, apologies to cosmic for not putting in my utmost effort until now, and apologies to any voters who've been disappointed by my performance so far. But now I want to say this-

This third and final post will blow absolutely everything else you've seen so far out of the water, so no one except Cosmic needs to doubt my victory. Enjoy the tidal wave to come, ladies and gentlemen.

Dissecting the Debate

I'll just go ahead and say this is one of the most important parts of my post.

This section will be dedicated to ripping apart CL's arguments limb from limb, setting the foundation for me to cement my victory in the counters. First of all, I want to commend Cosmic yet again (I know, the praise is getting tiring) for at least making this debatable (which ends now). So without further ado, let's whip out our surgical knifes-

1. Cosmic has no argument outside of speed, and without a counter to my durability argument he will lose

If you've been reading along carefully, from the moment he posted his opener to his 1st round of rebuttals, he knew that speed was his largest and most blatant advantage. So, despite the fact I already conceded Guy was faster, he kept hammering the fact in my face, driving his point home. That's an excellent strategy (keeping an advantage when you have one) but the problem is how hilariously vulnerable he's leaving himself for other sections of the debate, and how ignorant he is to my counter to it. One of my rebuttals were that Saitama wouldn't have to physically tag Guy, due to the fact that his punches generate shockwaves with continental AOE. Do you know what his counter to that was? "An AOE that didn't do anything but bust a city sized ship and dispersed some energy in the atmosphere." In other words, he basically resorted to debunking the power of the AOE instead giving an actual solid reason of how Guy can avoid it.

Conclusion? Guy can't. Now why is that important? Because Cosmic himself agreed that Might Guy has practically zero durability showings, so Cosmic knows that if Guy gets tagged by even a casual hit from Saitama he's dead. And that's why he's making such a big deal of speed, because he has absolutely no response for Guy's lack of durability against Saitama's punches. So even if he debunks Serious Punch and Roar Canon till Jesus comes back there's still the fact that Saitama's casual hits are Large Island+ and verge on small country (which he agreed was fair in his opener). Add that to the fact Saitama has inescapable continental AOE and Guy has no path to victory.

2. Debunking Saitama isn't helping him, and if it was not anymore

This has been a major focus of Cosmic's debate, debunking Saitama and reducing his power drastically below the popular opinion or what is normally accepted (stuff like saying that he's "hypersonic at best" or below country in striking). Well, I'm here to tell you now that it's pointless, because half of the stuff he debunks are claims I didn't even make, and he's using it to point away the focus and intentions of my main argument. In other words, he's pulling a Red Herring. Purposely debunking statements I never said in order to make it look like he's doing something, or tearing apart arguments that don't pertain to me at all (which gives the illusion that he's winning). This was the case with most of the "counters" in his opener, and I'll point out when he does it again in these rebuttals.

3. Cosmic's lack of versatility with Guy is depressing

Instead of focusing on aspects of Guy's powerset like skill and experience, (he tried with skill but didn't use demonstrate it to be a key player in H2H) he views if he somehow manages to abuse Guy's speed advantage it'd be able overcome his durability and strength shortcomings. While I admitted it's a good strategy, I'm not that lazy of a debater to regocnize that CL knows he only has one road to victory, which I will surely cock block. For example, if I equalized speed in this debates' opener, Cosmic while have nothing- absolutely nothing. I have proved Saitama to be superior in every other category (except skill), which I will do as many times as it takes to get my point across. Now that I've gotten to the root of the problem, I'd love to see how he proves Guy is more durable than Saitama, or how he has more striking power; without using embarrasing fan calcs about the Earth's density and other laughable stuff.

4. Cosmic's overall performace has been enormous, but it's not big enough

This has less to do with the actual debate and counters than my first three points, but I just wanted to convey this message to him. He put himself at such a disadvantage, using a character without an uproar of feats; and one that relies on scaling more than his opponent. In order for him to sway the opinion of the populace, he needs to do an outstanding job with his debating while simultaneously representing his character perfectly and proving Guy to be superior in various areas than Saitama (which I'll try my hardest to disallow him from doing). Overall this debate is very well grounded but now that I'm going at it full force I'm interested to see what direction he takes his third post in, considering I've shut down his main route to victory and will continue to apprehend other ones.

Arguments that I'm dropping

I'm going to drop my argument of Saitama being relativistic. It wasn't really going anywhere and doesn't help at all

Even Quicker Counters

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But it was. I've given you a clear basis of speed to suggest how fast guy is whilst you keep spouting the same nonsense of Saitama being relativistic with just about nothing for us to take from it but your word. It's not going to cut it bud, you have no feats to suggest he could perceive Guys speed so it's only right for me to say Guy blitzes until you can soundly disprove the statement.

Speed this, speed that- blitz this, blitz that. Let me be frank- who cares? At this point it's become obvious you have no other direction to take this so I'll cut it off here. Guy being faster than Saitama doesn't take away from the fact that his speed advantage is all for naught, as I already voiced in my "Dissecting the Debate" section of this post. Blitzing Saitama is an option, but it's not like he'll get anything out of it. None of Guy's striking feats outside of breaking the TSB hold a candle to Boros' moon kick. As for Guy breaking Madara's TSB (his best striking feat), I can easily debunk that but utilizing the logic you emplyed to debunk Saitama's serious punch and roar canon. One being because it wasn't visually impressive and didn't destroy the surrounding area outside the TSB itself ( believe me, I'm not twisting his words- this is how his logic went), and the other is that it's possibly an outlier considering up until that moment Guy had no large country+ striking feats. That's exactly how you debunked Roar canon, by saying it didn't destroy anything other than the ship meaning it was weak and by saying it was an outlier due to Boros possibly bluffing.

Just another day on the vine for GV, screwing debaters over with their own logic.

Thats saitama's best striking feat and you are clearly blowing the size out of proportion and its probably in the large mountain size but(Which would blow the cities in New york away pretty easily) you can get a pretty clear shot of it compared to the city, Im in no way buying it's superiority over Hirudora which is an AoE attack as well. Not to mention it is again hinged on more exaggerated character statements in the first place. Prove the Meteor is Island level, it seems like a reasonable request especially since it involves a showing pertinent to your argument.

Lmao, I already proved it was this level when I provided context for it in my opener, which you basically agreed to, considering you had no way to debunk it and accepted my word on it

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Try again

So not only are you sidestepping my argument, you're also misusing your very own evidence by not having the full context of it: So like I said earlier, all it did was bust a city sized ship with this little effect being dispersed energy in the atmosphere. If he truly was in the striking class you're suggesting he would have busted the meteor on contact as well in your other feat. Your theory of Saitama somehow equating to Country/Continent level (Lol @ a solid mass that size at that) does not add up consistently nor factually.

The effect of the ship or atmosphere doesn't matter, as long as it's confirmed he overpowered a continental energy beam, which he did on panel. That's just like me saying that even though Guy broke Madara's TSB (which has an irrefutable durability), because he didn't bust anything outside or around it the attack was weaker... lol. There's also no way a serious, morals off Saitama isn't anything less than continental in striking; considering his casual hits fall between island and country, Boros stated RC to be continental, and the fact the AoE is continental,(it should be noted that it was AoE leftover power from killing Boros who was small country lvl durability + regen). So yes, country/continental for serious punch is fair game. But if that explanation doesn't satisfy you, don't worry I'll go in depth later.

Not that it matters, because if the range of Saitama's shockwaves manage to tag Guy (which they will), it would kill him on contact no matter what, because GUY HAS NO DURABILITY FEATS.

Also if you're wondering how I got small country lvl dura for Boros, please recall that he tanked a mean blow from Saitama-

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Yea. Im stating that since it's basically irrefutable that the god tree is perceivable from space Guy landing a hit on the base of it thats viewable from a similar angle is impressive. Funny how you rip me on using a visual scale then claim it was small in comparison. Also, lol @ the god tree being Multi-mountain: The god tree stump is larger than those meteors and just the debris is dwarfing mountain ranges. The god tree Is legitamitely a large chunk of a super continent, it easily is the size of a large country.

What's funnier is stating the God tree stump is larger than Madara's CT meteors when it's not

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And what's straight up hilarious is calling it "large country" sized

lol at anything country
lol at anything country

Good luck arguing against scans. As we can clearly see, the base of the God tree (minus the roots) is wider than several mountains at best.

You didn't. Nor did you prove saitama is anywhere near continent level. You need something as Im beginning to get impatient, it's going in the same circle.

Saitama has numerous circumstantial evidence to show that his serious punches are country/continental. These include-

- His casual punches being small country lvl, and since his serious punches are magnitudes stronger, it's not inconsistent or illogical to assume them being continental when coupled with other evidence (such as)-

- Boros stating it to be continental, keep in mind it was his trump card, and all of his energy and strength poured into it

-The AOE of said punch affecting the atmosphere for 10s of thousands of kilometers over a continental area

All these, (and the fact that continental is generally considered to be fair- for different reasons as well), add up to the fact his serious punch (when morals off) isn't anything less than continental in power.

So you concede on the ship being city sized, Excellent.

Tf? Did I ever say it was larger? Lmao

Also note that Naruto and Sasuke were a great deal higher: Thats where Sasuke was last hit and where he began charging Indras Arrow in the next page btw, Irrefutably above the clouds compared to:

I never made the argument that Boros was higher, just that the were aerial. Funny how you keep using those anime pics though. Anyway, Saitama and Boros were high enough to disturb the outer atmosphere, as well as have their collision points visible from space, so they were pretty high up too.

It also completely destroyed two avatars with proven Multi-Country level durability, caused a storm all over the world with lightning capable of completely destroying forests, and caused massive collateral damage despite how high they were. These are again all irrefutable:

Scans of the village statues tanking multi-country/continental attacks

Saitama's meteor was not country level at all,

The dialogue you yourself stated in your opener implies that you believed otherwise... Why you change it now is beyond me. Probably because you realize that me having the argument is hurting you and that advantage will lead me to victory, which it will.

nor does this mean he can bust a land mass that size when he didn't even completely destroy it in the first place.

Except it does because he did

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

It's not like every time a character busts something it has to turn to vapor to be considered destroyed...

On the otherhand I can give you a plethora of evidence to suggest Naruto or Sasuke are irrefutably in that range of DC along with several others in the series which means it's consistent.

As if that has anything to do with Guy

Except Hirudora not only oneshot Susanoo to testament its power and AoE but Night guy is solidly where it needs to be, it's indirect impact is country level as he hit Madara who has multi-country durability as well with it. You didn't really debunk anything here honestly, you're only hurting yourself by not doing research on both parties.

I can accept the Hirudora thing, but going off your own logic, Night Guy is NOT where it needs to be in terms of DC because of the visual scale of the attack. And lol at the indirect impact being country lvl, I mean is anyone seeing this? My opponent is calling this little puff country level-

No Caption Provided

I mean really??

It did, the city sized ship which is what level this feat is on. The effect is negligible and can be explained in a number of ways which you refuse to accept, your conclusion is irrelevant as it pertains to nothing solid.

I can't stress it enough, just because it didn't create that much collateral damage doesn't downplay the feat at all or take away from what it actually was, a bald guy oneshotting a continental beam while holding back. And you've asked me to prove the power of Roar Canon and Serious Punch several times, which I've done time and time again. I know that the entire thing hinges on a character statement, but I've shown that the statement is at least logical and consistent by using circumstancial evidence. For example, if I was arguing that roar canon was planet lvl, you'd have a point and I'd be forced to concede, but thankfully I'm not.

Yea, it's inconsistent with the entire series and it has no business being on the same stepping stool as what you're making it out to be. When we look at it logically you don't seem to like it so we'll just just let the voters decide as you're being extremely obtuse by saying attacks on city scale (even multiple cities) equate to country - continent level.

It's not inconsistent because Boros stated it to be his second trump card:

No Caption Provided

Meaning that it was an attack far more powerful than anything he's shown. Similar to the Gate of Death, it's been foreshadowed to be an extremely powerful transformation, that's why most showings with it aren't regarded as outliers or inconsistencies despite Guy not having demonstrated that level of power before

Thats quite a bit less than half the speed of light.

Hence why I stress the point of it being low-relativistic/sub-relativistic

how does the impact not lessen the feat?

Because all the force is generated at the point of contact...

This feat is again another hyped up fan calc that completely disregards the Gravity between the earth and moon. I mean it's cool and all he kicked him to the moon in a few seconds but looking at it quantifiably it's nothing special, especially the return which I'll get to in a moment.

That feat still beats any striking Guy has done outside of him breaking Madara's TSB, a feat which I debunked earlier using your own logic. Saitama has been hit by mountain lvl force before when he fought Carnage Kabuto, so without using calcs, (and rather common sense) Boros' moon kick can't be any weaker than any force Saitama has felt before or dealt with; including the webcomic. i'm inclined to say a fair estimate of it's power falls between island and country lvl in terms of force.

Once again, upward speed is a third of the speed of light. Show me a single feat that suggests Saitama has combat speed in that Range.

I've already conceded Saitama's speed countless times, so just drop the speed argument as it's not working for you. Instead how about you back up your claims of the Raikage moving at return stroke speed first? With actual scans mind you

Do whatever you need to bud, Naruto has destroyed landmass larger than a moon on panel

WHAT

WAIT WHA-

HUH? WHAT?? WHEN??? WHEREEE?????

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Me and the voters would be absolutely delighted to see you post scans of Naruto destroying a landmass larger than a moon (planet) on panel.

LMAO!

so Toneri splitting it isn't out of the ordinary. Can you see correctly? I'll be generous and say the anime depiction is a 4-5th of it but that's just hilarious.

Sorry, I can't counter this effectively because I'm still reeling in shock from your previous statement. And you obviously have to count all of the rings for the moon feat. They're a part of the shockwave

Oneshotting a mass thats taller than a mountain does not mean mountain level, but sure, we'll roll with it. However saying saitama is mountain level in striking for beating him is a fallacy.

So you agree it's mountain lvl? Cool. And if I may ask, to which fallacy are you referring to?

He was clearly damaged....I shouldn't have to tell you a boxer is going to hit harder when he's at 100% rather than struggling to stand.

I was referring to Kabuto tanking Genos' blast and not being damaged, even if he was, the damage is superficial considering he barely noticed and laughed it off. Your boxing analogy is useless as it pertains to Genos and not kabuto who my original statement was about.

Which w uld mean Mountain+ right? That's all we've seen from genos as per your concession.

I never said Genos was more than mountain+/ multi-mountain, so please drop the whole concession thing. You're ripping on me for agreeing with myself lol

LOL! Lee was hailed as nothing short of a prodigy for being able to open the 5th gate where Kakashi himself remarks it should be impossible, it then took Lee 2 more years to master the sixth gate in shippuden. So not only are you attempting to argue some fodder are somehow up to Lee's capability (he taught those gated users btw which makes this statement even more laughable) but they can use six of the eight gates similar to him along with learn them in a shorter time? Bullcrap. At absolute best you can say they were 4th gate as thats where the boost begins majorly, my lord Lee doesn't even Open the sixth gate until he makes contact with the meteor so now you're back to telling lies again. Let's take another look.

> Completely ignores my original argument by pulling a Red Herring again and driving the argument's focus into the gates that people were using, when in reality the point of my statement was to showcase the fact that Lee had assistance in destroying the meteor, yet still failed to destroy more than half. Not only that, no one really cares what Gate they were using as that wasn't my original point, but it was the only part of my statement Cosmic countered because it was the only part he knew how to counter...

Also take note of what busting a meteor looks like as you clearly have it confused.

> Implying that Lee's meteor busting is superior to Saitama's

character statement =/= Manga fact.

> Ignoring my argument yet again by dis-equating a character statement and a manga fact, instead of actually arguing against my point about Genos' analysis and debunking it because he has no counter

So by your very own concession Saitama didn't really cause the explosion just triggered it and the resulting explosion was from the interior of the meteor not his punch? Mk.

How could Saitama not trigger the explosion of the meteor being destroyed if he's the one who destroyed it?

Indeed. You've done nothing but supplement my argument without me having to work for it, bravo.

Honestly, with your sassy attitude and lackluster arguments, you're hurting yourself more than I am

Feats that put it anywhere near Madaras or Naruto's capability like I showcased?

You asked for feats of it being near their capability, so I'll gladly show that:

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Do you know what upward speed is? Y'know the thing I CLEARLY have outlined several times over and how it's quite a deal faster than your regular cloud to ground?

Do you know what scans are? Can you please provide on-panel evidence of Ay moving at 1/3 the speed of light?

Now since I just know you do, kindly point to those 'lightning timer' feats and how an entire tier of those characters exist when you're showing me FTE feats in comparison to my own?

Sure thing. Garou blitzed Black Sperm and Golden Sperm, Amai Mask, as well as Atomic Samurai. Black Sperm was capable of outpacing AS who Garou blitzed before he even fully matured into his second phase.

Blitzes Black sperm and Amai mask

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Catches and breaks Atomic samurai's blade before he could react

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Now, before I go and prove their speed, i just want to note that you used fan calcs about the earth's density to demonstrate your argument of Guy having better striking than either Saitama or Boros; so I see no reason why I can't refer to calcs for AS.

Context:

The average speed for a lightning steppe leader is the in the upper mach 200s, (mach 286 via this source) and it can range up to Mach 500 depending on the medium. Atomic Samurai completed this feat:

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Slicing a monster dozens of times over before a supersonic blade an inch from his neck could tag his throat. No matter how many times that feat get's calced, (by different people using different methods), the common low end is almost ALWAYS mach 900+ when all 41 strokes are counted (it varies). If you don't believe you can read this calc me and my friends did on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePunchMan/comments/5i3j3f/the_speed_of_the_great_atomic_samurai/

*There were 41 strokes, not 24*

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And considering LS Flash is faster (so is Golden Sperm) and they're both comparable to weakened Tastumaki then yes, Garou did blitz an entire tier of characters above lightning speed.

That's your problem than, Im basing this 100% off what you've shown me and it's nothing part 1 characters couldn't accomplish speed wise.

I could argue Genos beating any part 1 character

Who you again have no sort of gist of speed with.....you're also scaling saitama off garou and his best feat is trading blows with saitama. I'd just concede here all together to save yourself the embarrassment of having to cover your steps.

He blitzed Garou who could casually fodderize MHS+ characters, some above lightning. Saitama himself has many feats that place him between the upper ends of triple digit mach to quad digit, such as blitzing Boros who's fast enough to tag his body after sending it flying with physical strikes in MB (such as strikes comparable to his moon kick) . So in reality, unless Guy starts in 8th Gate he's not blitzing shit. Thankfully you never intended for Guy to start in 8th

Concession accepted. Feat ignored.

Dude. Drop. The. Concession. BS. Please.

And what feat did I ignore?? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. You randomly brough up Naruto/Pain/Kakashi from the pain arc as if they're faster than Saitama and Guy?

Has it ever occured to you that Kakashi is faster than Base Naruto?

Has it ever occured to you that it was 2 paths against Kakashi and not just Deva?

What the fook m8? Are you being series right now? he didn't react to lightning, but he reacted with Susanoo........What sort of bull you feedin me here?

Nice job twisting my words. I never said he didn't react, I said he didn't dodge it. He reacted to it by deploying Susanoo, so yes Itachi was a lightning timer.

It's irrefutable that if the lightning touches the ground in a milisecond he reacted in microseconds (I.E between miliseconds) to stop it. He didn't need to physically move as Sharingan does not require movement.

Yes, but physically moving out the way and aim-dodging lightning with your entire body takes more effort and energy, and would translate as actual combat speed rather than reactions- which isn't the case with Itachi because he reacted to it but wasn't fast enough to evade.

It blows those scans that you showed with Garou out of the water, showing that fight is nothing spectacular in comparrison. That's a DIRECT comparrison to what you've shown saitama could do and it's undeniably superior.

I don't see how you're so grounded and confident about it being superior when both are completely unquantifiable. The last thing we need are both of us pulling out calcs about which boulders fell faster...lol

Im not looking at a respect thread in a CaV,debating is your goal, if you can't bring the proof to me and the audience than you're fighting a losing battle by default.

Suit yourself. I proved Garou's speed moments ago and in my opener I showed casual Saitama blitzing him. The only reason I dropped the argument of him being relativistic is because it'd be an uphill battle to prove it combat, but him moon jump is still 6 digit mach and he was faster flying there. Though in my next counter I'll give you the bottom line of how fast he is.

That's an absolutely absurd suggestion, how does Jumping = Running = Combat speed?

Again, not what I said or what I meant. Though jumping and side hops are related, a lot of my speed arguments concerning Saitama and other OPM characters have been dropped or changed with this post, as I developed a strategy where he no longer needs a speed advantage to win. But characters like Boros are fast enough to tag Saitama after ragdolling him with punches and kicks, and we all know the speed at which Boros can send Saitama flying. In no way am I saying his Moon kick (which sent Saitama to the moon in a few seconds at best) is the average speed and force he deals with his blows, but they're all comparable in effort. Especially after Saitama landed back from the moon and Boros said he would going "all out" implying that the amount of speed and force he used then was greater than anything output he displayed before. Bottom line for Boros in Meteoric Burst is high-end quad digit mach (it's much higher) his strikes are subjectively weaker but comparable to his moon kick and he can zip around Saitama after launching him for even combat speed. Saitama blitzed him, and blitzed Garou who had precog as well as his own speed feats via soloing the S-Class heroes and Monster Association.

Is he going to jump at guy whilst he's bombarding him with hundreds of blows?

No but he'll throw a punch at him while being bombarded at blows, and a single hit will kill him, whether he makes direct contact or not

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You're claiming lightning isnt impressive but are resorting to after Images as a combat feat and attempting to play it at MHS? But Guy isn't LS for CLEARLY breaking the light barrier? My god I need a recess, court.

Bruh, I said MUCH SLOWER. Tbh I don't even know why I included that feat but you're overreacting. The speed argument has been conceded but Saitama is fast enough to keep up with any version of Guy up till 8th Gate and durable enough to tank his hits.

I guess he did the same when he vaporized the top of the ship?

Wth... blatant Red Herring. And try again because when he vaporized the top of the ship his energy was projected as a beam:

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Concession accepted, 7:06.

I already disproved that. In Meteoric Burst Boros uses internal energy to propel his body's stats and striking, like he said himself.

I've also established that he doesn't need them as Guy is fast and skilled enough to suggest Saitama has no Merit tagging him in almost anyway possible.

He's definitely not fast enough to avoid continental shockwave AOE.

It is when said character has never been blitzed by virtue of being too quick with perception hax.

Too bad that's still not quantifiable

You'd be hard pressed proving it's country sized at all probably a small one, I showed you where Guy shattered a shield that tanked multiple Country busting attacks simultaneously in my opener along with showing you said attack destroying a country. Your interpretation is obscured as it's no way in hell thats a third of the moons surface, you're basing it off a cropped picture with a circle on the rest of it.

The only reason why disagree on it is because apparently you only counted the two innermost rings instead of all of them, which you're supposed to be because those shockwaves still have force. You probably don't count because there's no chipped rocks ro debris to be seen like there were for the inner rings, but that doesn't matter. It only shows that the center point had the most force

STOP SAYING RELATIVISTIC!

You triggered?

My god it's UNQUANTIFIABLE, relativistic IS NOT A SPEED, It is a calculation in its ratio to the speed of light. Just name dropping it isn't even an argument MACH 1 is technically Relativistic. I've shown you Madaras feats that easily label him LS, the fact that Guy moves faster than he can percieve is all I need to suggest that Saitama isn't seeing him anytime soon as he has absolutely no speed feats near his level.

This debate has focused too much on speed for my liking. I've proven Saitama's speed with other methods overall, but I recognize it's not enough to suggest he'd tag Guy in CQC. Good thing the only thing he needs to do is throw a punch in his general direction and the shockwaves will take care of the rest- whether you belive it's continental or not, he doesn't have the durability feats to suggest he can tank even casual Saitama's island lvl blows. All I'm doing is taking that force and applying it to the shockwaves which he's shown on panel

Yea, Lets get some real world facts involved to make you ignore me. Boros' kick is accomplishable by just about any solid midtier strikers (who actually physically bust mountains),

Omg I hate that autistic calc that places Boros at mountain lvl in striking. It's SO wrong. I mean, can people use common sense? Like bruh, Carnage Kabuto's breath was small mountain level, and Saitama tanked a barrage of physical punches from him after he powered up. It's because it's not quantifiable that I decided to keep it on a low end of Mountain+, but it's ridiculosly higher. Beefcakes ARM was longer than mountains are tall (refer to opener if you're in doubt) and he punched Saitama to a greater depth than the scale of his entire body. And those Guys are fodder, Golden Sperm is arguably multi-mountain in terms of strength, Garou was physically more powerful- and every strking feat in the entire series bar serious punch still pales in comparison to Boros' kick...

Boros kicked Saitama 50 miles into the atmosphere before gravity decreased significantly increasing his outward velocity. Gravity is weaker in the Mesosphere, by the time he hit the thermosphere he's simply drifting a direction. Heres a good diagram for a better look:

Ok cool. The total distance he kicked him was over 284,000 mi, all within the same timeframe

Now why is Guys feat more impressive? Well for one the earth is the densest planet in the solar system:

Oh boy here we go...

To put it blunt the atmosphere is 0.0012g per centimeter the density of earth is 5.5g per centimeter, miles deep with a shockwave of a punch is quantifiably amazing, I'd be willing to wager Guy can punch saitama through the moon. I shouldn't have to point out how inferior in perspective this is when placed in a striking scenario but lets do simple math, even though they were clearly off the ground I'll say 60 miles just cause, 60m = 9,656,064cm x 0.0012g = 11,587.3g or 25.5 pounds of resistance there on the other hand lets downplay Guys to 3 miles deep 3m = 482,803cm x 5.5g = 2,655,416.5g or 5,854.2 pounds of resistance through mass almost denser than most metals, even one mile would be 1,951 pounds. This is of course ignoring a crap load of variables such as Madara actually resisting to a degree, the unknown minerals in the ground, being quite a deal airborne, etc. However you can't say the same on Boros' end.

Hm, interesting. I would like to point out something though, this calc for Guy's striking is drastically inferior to all the mid-end calcs for AS (there are so many, the ones me and my friends did on reddit is just one). The reason why is because there are far too many unknown variables in this calc for you rely on it entirely.

1. How do we know Guy sent him miles deep anyway? You realize a single mile is over 5,280 feet?

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On the contrary this doesn't look like more than a couple hundred meters at best.

2. How did you reach the conclusion that Guy was 60 miles above ground before he sent him under? Where did you get that number from? How can you confirm it to be true?

3. How in the hell can you possibly wager Guy punching Saitama through a moon, when our moon is over 2,000 miles in diameter? Or maybe Saitama inspired you?

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Evening elephant would take the entire ship from the sky.

The ship is quite durable actually. It tanked it's own barrage of shells after they were reflected back, said punch that liquified a semi-city sized portion of it, the impact of Saitama's return, in addition to collateral damage from their blows in general.

Cept even when Madaras body absorbed most of the hit it created a country sized explosion on the tree:

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COUNTRY SIZED:

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C O U N T R Y S I Z E D:

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cOunTrY sIZed:

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Lol just drop it. The force is arguable country considering how bad it damaged Madara (and how his weaker striking was this level), but in terms of visual scale, the absolute most you're ever gonna get from me is multi-mountain. But according to your logic that means it's weaker right?

Not to mention I've already shown you durability feats for the Juubi/God Tree in my opener, It's taken Country level attacks without flinching.

The force is country, but definitely not the size of the explosion.

I have, you just refuse to accept it by repeating the same thing over and over. The OP states strongest versions of each character, unless you plan on cheesing a win by having Guy down himself via gates I can't say he wouldn't use night moth(Not that he'd have to at all).

You never intended for Guy to start in 8th gate, you literally said that yourself. But it's obvious that you need him to be in 8th to have any chance at winning. And pfft idc if it makes me look lame by "cheesing a win", Guy will definitely kill himself using those attacks before managing to kill Saitama.

That is a theory that has been disproven by the genuine fact that more than several natural phenomenon happen FTL, it is a highly accommodated theory but just that at the end of the day. Also it isn't infinite its Incalculable. The scientific term for what Guy did can be either Quantum Entanglement due to the irrefutable fact that he bent light particles or Gravitational lensing which has to do with Light reflecting through star systems to 'warp space'. As a matter of fact both of these are FTL, you can google them both if you need to.

I won't waste my time trying to fact check this or google squat because I know damn well you ain't trying to argue Guy as FTL.

Also that's just a hilarious argument, should I ask you to prove he doesn't have either? He theoretically caused a black hole effect by bending light as well as warping the space around him. It's no way to quantifiably discredit this feat being LS when he litterally breaks the light barrier.

1. Breaking the light barrier would imply that he's faster than light, so stop that

2. In order for him to have caused the black hole effect, he would have needed an immeasurable amount of mass packed into a single spot creating a gravitational pull strong enough to contain light. It has virtually nothing to do with speed

3. Site your sources for the criteria needed to identify an object breaking or approaching the light barrier

How doesn't it make sense? EE is a lotus formation that focuses speed in a short circular range to reign down on the enemy. If by your very own admittance he can percieve in the nanosecond range yet can't keep track of Guy it's safe to say he's moving inbetween that timeframe constantly.

I said it doesn't make sense because he couldn't react to some punches from EE at all, while he was completely aware of Night Guy and it's effects as it was coming to him (he just couldn;t do anything about it, his movement was restricted due to space being warped). Theoretically it would mean EE is faster, but it's not.

Feats to suggest Saitama can move at this level?

Sigh. There are none, but he doesn't need them to win this fight

I don't need any because you've already conceded on the fact that Guy is irrefutably faster than saitama even in earlier forms so it's no argument for him being able to even see guy at any point during this battle to hit him.

He doesn't need to be faster to kill him, but feats for Guy to suggest he can dodge a indirect serious punch shockwave across the planet?

An Aoe that didn't do anything but bust a city sized ship and dispersed some energy in the atmosphere.

Red Herring. The AOE can still tag him, the force it has is another issue entirely. And you've already acknowledge that saitama's punches can range from mountain all the way to small country, which is still enough to kill a acharacter without durability feats, and I see no reason for serious punch to be weaker than his casual punches.

But sadly for you, they're continental.

You attempted to equate jumping to running to fighting, went from Island to country on the meteor size several times, and are basing Saitama breaking a 4th of the moon on a non-canon fan pixel scale. I can't wait to read these vote reasons, I know im losing a load of points for my overall attitude but this is simply comical. All like I predicted in my Opener.

- You tried to debunk roar canon by saying it only busted the ship and serious punch by saying it only split the atmosphere, then went on to make a dozen claims about Guy that fell flat to the same logic

- You tried somehow equate the base of the God tree stump to a large country, then called Guy's Night Moth country lvl for leaving a tiny nick of an explosion near it

- You used calcs about the Earth's density to wank EE to the point where Guy would be somehow near moon lvl in striking?

- You also used multiple anime scans, links, and videos to downplay manga canon

- You used multiple red herrings to twist my words and rewrite my arguments in your favor

- Time to time you would debunk claims I didn't make

- You implied Rock Lee to have superior meteor busting than Saitama

- You called Naruto a moon+ buster on-panel

So yea, I can point out a bunch of crazy stuff you said too (last one still gives me chills) but the fact of the matter stands you used more speculation. I'm itching to see the vote reasons as well, though I know I probably lost some votes based on how weak my opener was compared to yours and the lack of effort in my first set of counters. But now? Game on

It was a gloat.....Literally the entire fight he was boasting about his power. You haven't debunked anything, just attempt to highball some solid mid-tier characters into DC powerhouses with rather absurd size estimations.

It's not a gloat if he's releasing all of his energy and if he stated it to be the most powerful thing in his arsenal, which in the end it was. And you're acting like Guy is above mid-tier or something

A cloud is a nigh-formless mass that is basically a liquid, an airplane will split a cloud by flying through it. Not to mention a clouds density is only .5 grams a meter, only the individual raindroplets accumulate that much weight. Also, so you are also admitting to the cause of this effect was disperesed energy throughout the atmosphere?

Mk.

I know what clouds are made of, I was just stating how heavy they were. And I didn't admit to anything, just giving a theory of how impressive splitting clouds across tens of thousands of kilometers could be when quantified. But I think our audience has seen enough calcs already, and we're starting to derail.

he won't get hit here, EVER, I've effectively outlined that Guy is several tiers ahead of Saitama in both Skill and speed. It's no way possible for Saitama to tag Guy, even accidentally.

Can he dodge this?

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Added on to the fact that Guy towers over Saitama speed wise he can completely immobilize him with EE off the bat which he will obviously get off much faster in a plentiful amount due to the staggering advantage in combat speed aswell.

Unlike Madara, Saitama has actual lifting strength feats, like flipping over the mass of the Monster Association which is mountain sized into (dwarfed Z-city in every dimention of size) and resisting Tatsumaki's TK (which was strong enough to uproot said monster association from 1500 meters underground)

Tatsumaki's feat and Saitama's feat.

So he's not gonna get immobilized by it, maybe damaged. And if one of EE's steps sends Saitama underground, he'll jump up at Guy, and Saitama's jumps do have a set speed, so he'll throw a punch at Guy and kill him. But EE won't hurt him considering beefcake has a similar feat that he no-sold.

Concession accepted, saitama doesn't have the feats to react to guy.

I literally said that

I've Shown the feats necessary to suggest Guy is in a superior striking class than his durability allows,

No you haven't lol. Guy at the absolute most is country lvl in striking, and that might hurt him, but you have to consider Saitama punching things with a set lvl of force doubles as durability. You can't punch through a brick wall without your hand being durable enough to tank that force, and saitama also tanked the explosion of the meteor he busted.

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if you think so we'll let the voters decide as you haven't proven just about anything coming out of your mouth atm.

???? Ok.

Guy oneshots miles of landmass with shockwaves of his blows, and busts country+ constructs with indirect hits. A direct hit should be fatal to saitama.

> Implying that Guy actually destroyed the base of the God tree. And Saitama should have more than country lvl durability, considering he tanked the explosion from the meteor and had this to say about it:

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Only someone with the most shaded sight of prejudice and favoritism could suggest Saitama is a superior combatant than Guy. Especially basing off what you've shown so far, you're just bringing light to your own bias tbh.

I'm gonna let this insult slide. I don't view myself as a OPM cuck boi anymore than you know that you're a Narutard

Back to the conclusion:

The sheer gap in physical speed alone should make this battle unwinnable for Saitama, he can not keep up with Guys level of speed whatsoever and judging from his showings with Madara he wouldn't be able to see him at all.

The gap isn't as large as you make it out to be, and whether you like it or not EE isn't going to scratch him. And in character, Guy isn't going to use night moth at all, well not before Saitama manages to extend his arm in a punch.

Saitama has no durability feats to suggest he could take Multiple of Guys hits

Stealing my durability argument aye? Well it seems to to me that the scenario of this battle plays out in your mind like this: Guy starts in 8th Gate and moves at light speed the entire time, using EE to spam punches and kill him before Saitama manages to blink.

EE isn't scratching him, I'm sorry but EE isn't country lvl and no one cares about the earth's density. Saitama has the lifting feats to suggest he'd resist and as I proved earlier, he's capable of dealing a blow amidst his opponents flurry of punches.

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One punch can and will kill Guy

Saitama won't be able to move in the slightest this entire fight due to Evening elephant spam, meaning Guy can get in any number of hits he wants.

EE won't immobilize Saitama, he has resisted TK from Tatsumaki who can replicate mountain lvl+ lifting feats while drastically weakened (though she was weak when she fought him as well) as opposed to Madara who has no notable lifting strength feats at all, which allowed him to be restricted by the force of EE. I know you're probably gonna counter by saying "EE is country lvl so Saitama would need country lvl lifting strength to overpower" but that's not how it works, it's only ever pushed back someone w/o lifting strength so someone with them can not be immobilized by it.

Even if we do go with my opponents unbased mechanics of how saitama fights and that he spams AoE punches (somehow completely ignoring those three things) the Lotus is the Ideal counter for it and Guy would simply change direction.

Since EE won't work and Saitama would be able to move, that strategy is null and void. And Guy can't change directions to avoid Saitama's AOE, unless you can show me scans of him scaling continents in less than a fraction of a second.

Saitama does not have the stats or skill to make this battle more than an everyday work-out for him by making him a levitating punching bag. This fight will have been well over by the time Saitama touches the ground basically

This battle won't be even a jog in the park for Saitama. This is probably how he'll feel when he's done:

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Feat vs Feat Comparison

Now that we've gotten past the counters, it's time to start the third leg of our 400 meters. This section will be a feat by feat comparison of Saitama's and Maito Guy's best on-panel showings, to prove who has is superior feats in each category without speculation from me and Cosmic.

Strength (striking)

Might Guy: Punches hard enough to break Madara out of his own TSB shield, making it a large country+ striking feat. Also eradicates half of his body with Night Guy, nearly killing him (Madara has country lvl durability).

Saitama: Throws a singular punch so powerful it dispered surface razing energy beam (continental+), and still had enough force left over to oneshot a character with country lvl durability (Boros), overload said characters regeneration, and generated a shockwave so potent it divided the atmosphere to tens of thousands of kilometers on end.

(lifting) -

Guy: None. Saitama: Resisting mountain lvl TK and flipped over the monster association

Winner - Saitama

Speed

Might Guy: Blitzed Madara who could in turn could keep up with and fodderize characters above lightspeed two powerups ago, who also had precog. Also bent space with a kick, placing it along the lines of relativistic+ and LS

Saitama: Blitzed Boros who in MB should be quadruple digit mach (only through speculation) and blitzed Garou who had precog and two powerups ago could blitz and fodderize characters above lightning speed

Edge - Might Guy

Durability

Might Guy - None

Saitama - Tanked a barrage of punches from mountain lvl characters like Kabuto and Beefcake, no sold energy blasts from Boros, tanked a kick that sent him to the moon, unfazed by Garou's attacks, generally no-solds everything and has never been hurt in the entire series

Winner - Saitama

Skill

Might Guy - Martial arts master

Saitama - None. But has overwhelmed extremely skilled martial artists like Suiryu and Garou through sheer physical stats alone

Winner - Guy

Stamina/Endurance

Might Guy - Dies shortly after using 8th Gate. Even 7th gate puts immense strain on his body

Saitama - Indefinite. Has never tired out or shown any type of strain whatsoever

Winner - Saitama

AOE

Might Guy - Several hundred meters with EE

Saitama - Continental+

Winner - Saitama

Conclusion

Saitama - 4

Guy - 2

Victory - Saitama

Conclusion/Scenario's

We've finally reached the finish line ladies and gentlemen. At this point, I've tried everything I can to prove Saitama winning (dissecting the debate, quicker counters, feat by feat and now scenarios). It should be obvious Guy stands no chance of winning 9/10 times against Saitama under these conditions. I know some of you might not be convinced, so I set out scenarios. First, my conclusion is this:

  • Saitama is physically stronger
  • Despite Guy's speed advantage he can't hurt Saitama or overwhelm him
  • The illusion that Guy would never get tagged is negated by Saitama's on-panel continental AOE showings
  • Guy has zero durability feats, so if anything above mountain lvl in force manages to clip him, you CAN'T argue him winning
  • Saitama's serious punch has AOE and is above mountain lvl in force lmao.

Scenario's

1. Random encounter. Morals off. Guy rushes Saitama, pounding him with blows- then Saitama asks "are you done yet? with this fight?" Guy says- "No. Meteroric- I mean, 8th Gate of Death, Release! Saitama is surprised as Guy relentlessly blitzes him, spamming EE. Saitama struggles to move, but eventually powers through and throws a punch. Guy is already at a distance, so the AOE encompasses him and kills him. GG

2. Guy starts in 8th Gate. But Saitama is bloodlusted. He throws a serious punch and GG

3. Both have full knowledge. Guy tries to overwhelm him with skill, Saitama laughs and throws a serious punch. GG

4. Guy opens up with a rant about the power of youth. Saitama hates when people talk anbd go on rants, so he throws a serious punch and GG.

5. Saitama throws a serious punch. GG

6. Guy tries to use genjutsu, but Saitama is yawning at how bored he is so his eyes are partial closed. Guy leaps at him and Saitama throws a punch. GG

7. Every time they fight, Guy keeps an upperhand until Saitama throws a punch and kills him. Every time.

GG (; @cosmic_lantern

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#142 Posted by HigherPower (12306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#143 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16790 posts) - - Show Bio

Does the voting start soon? Tag me when it does.

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#144 Posted by Rustlingjimmy (1129 posts) - - Show Bio
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#145 Posted by Darthjhawk (5478 posts) - - Show Bio
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#148 Posted by cooljammy18 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

God Vulcan with that epic beatdown. Nice.

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#149 Posted by DeathHero61 (18772 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea.....mind changed. Call me what you want, I'm beyond done with the vine atm.

Aren't you going to close this with your last post?

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#150 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh....I'll wrap it up by tonight