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#52 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Even with the strongest versions written in the OP? Seems hard to miss.

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#54 Posted by IAmDuck (1159 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: why the heck did you tag yourself for?

Oh and T4V please

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#55 Posted by IAmDuck (1159 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: yep his so strong now he has to be constrained on a specially designed wheelchair that constantly drain his chakra otherwise he would eventually surpass even Kaguya in power

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#57 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@marc_55: @krleavenger: Tbh I wasn't even intending on Guy starting in eighth, ''tis why I said in-char but determined to win. But if he wants to make it easier on my end and simply debate against that form of Guy I'll take it as well.

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#58 Posted by Marc_55 (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Yet, you replied with obviously, when I answered your question. What sense does that make?

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#59 Posted by IAmDuck (1159 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: I wasn't being sarcastic

I was trying to lighten the mood with a joke about Gai's current state

Guess I didn't convey that properly huh?

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#60 Edited by Westwood_Trevor (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be fun.

T4V

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#61 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Hold all questions until the CaV is over to avoid clutter, especially those who lack even the ability to decipher a simple sentence in the OP under a highlighted "battle info" section. If you have a question about something PM one of the users, otherwise, with all due respect, just shut up and watch.

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#62 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8002 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

Lol

Online
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#63 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

tag me

this should be good

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#64 Posted by jplaya2023 (768 posts) - - Show Bio

so is anyone going to make an argument for either person?

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#65 Posted by BilboBaggins (786 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and good luck, guys.

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#66 Posted by cooljammy18 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

I'm very interested in this.

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#67 Edited by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern

One-Shot Man

Justice never looked so bald
Justice never looked so bald

Bio

ONE PUUUUUUUUUNCH!!!

For those of you who don't know, One Punch Man is the critically acclaimed comedy shonen series that is essentially a parody of the of the entire shonen demographic. The webcomic started in 2009, was serialized into manga by Shueisha in 2012 (after the original canon went viral), and finally was adapted into an anime production by Madhouse in late 2015. It follows the story of the main protagonist, Saitama, an overpowered superhero facing a self-imposed existential crisis (caused by being bored of his immeasurable strength). Every fight ends after only one punch (Garou excluded) and now the story instead focuses on his relationship and interactions with other pro heroes, monsters, and people in the series.

Powers and Abilities

Ummmmm.... powers? Well, we know Saitama can

  • Can throw punches
  • Can kick
  • Can tank things
  • Can jump
  • Can run
  • Hates mosquitos

That's about it lol

Feats

Saitama has a lot of showings, but I won't be using all of his feats, but just the ones I need to get my point across. If you're interested you can read this article from the OPM wikia

Saitama is the titular One-Punch Man and the strongest character in the series. So far no enemy has been able to injure him in any way and almost no enemy is even able to survive from a single earnest punch from him. A few enemies have survived punches from him, such as any human he has struck (which he was likely holding back against) and Boros, whom Saitama empathized with and held back against so as to give himself and Boros a satisfying and stimulating fight. Saitama's only power is that his body is far beyond human limits, allowing him to achieve astounding physical feats. His strength is so great that it vastly eclipses even artificial beings designed or bred specifically for superhuman combat, such as mechanical beings or the mutated warriors from the House of Evolution. Since no enemies have posed any real challenge to Saitama yet, the upper bound of his strength is likely even higher than it appears. While his power is only limited to heightened human traits - Saitama cannot fly or fire energy blasts - his superhuman abilities more than makes up for the lack of variety in his powers.

Striking

Saitama's greatest physical attribute is his immeasurably vast physical strength. In terms of striking (which is all he really does) he has a myriad of showings that put him above Guy. Let's just nitpick at some of his casual showings

Context

First, we'll need some context. This is Beefcakes size, and in both the manga and webcomic he dwarfs mountains and towers above clouds in height:

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^ Undeniably dwarfs mountains

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^ same thing here

Beefcake proceeds to destroy an city with the swing of his fist (scaling is off, but hey, the statement is there)

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The Feat

Saitama oneshots Beefcake by crumpling his face with a punch, which proceeds to destroy another city in the process.

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Conclusion? Saitama was irrefutably mountain lvl+ at this point, and we've already seen casual multi-city busting. People tend to forget how big Beefcake was really intended to be, and why Saitama one-shotting him was so impressive.

Next, we see his showings against Carnage Kabuto, and you'll need some context for this too

Context

Genos partially destroyed a mountain with a casual blast in the manga, and genuinely mountain busted in the anime (upon reaching the house of evolution)

Anime version

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Manga version

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I think that should merit Genos being mountain lvl

Kabuto then no solds a blast from Genos later + machine gun blow (at least mountain lvl durability, obviously much higher)

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That should merit CK's durability

CK then overpowers a full powered blast from Genos with nothing but his breath

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Yea, you'd be trolling if you said Kabuto was anything less than mountain lvl+. And this was casual, while he wasn't even in his strongest form

The Feat

Saitama oneshots Carnage Kabuto in glorious comedic fashion

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This next feat also needs some context.

Context

There is a dragon lvl meteor that no solds Genos' strongest attack, as well as multiple missiles from Metal Knight.

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^ Unfazed by metal knights missiles

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Tanks genos' most powerful ultimate attack. This is Genos with arms mode, using the core for power, and is many times stronger than the one from House of Evolution. An extreme lowball is saying the meteor is multi-mountain lvl

The meteor was stated to be able to wipe out not just Z-City, but every city in immediate vicinity

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By this point it should be apparent that the meteor is mountain+ to multi mountain with extreme lowball.

The Feat

Saitama oneshots this very same meteor, again, with casual effort

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He completely obliterates it dude

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The explosion of Saitama's meteor busting was visible from space

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The mere fragments of the meteor laid waste to Z-City

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Conclusion? Saitama's meteor busting places him at large island/small country in DC.

He also one shots Sea King, who tanked genos' lasers (another casual mountain lvl feat:

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Those weren't even his best feats, but I'm bringing out the big guns later

Speed

I have a feeling speed is going to be an important factor in this debate. That being said, Saitama has a ridiculous amount of showings (not nearly as much as strength however) that suggest he won't at least get blitzed by Guy

Reacts to FTE movement from SOS Sonic

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Reacts to a blitz from Sonic

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Blitzes Sonic

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Blitzes Boros

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Reacts to a surprise attack from Lightspeed Flash

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Context

Lightspeed Flash is fast enough to close the distance between his opponent and throw a string of attacks in 1 centisecond

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Reacts to a blitz from Garou

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Again

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And again

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And yet again

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Should've put this in a spoiler block

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Still one of the greatest panel transitions ever

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Blitzes Garou

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He does it so many times it'd be redundant to post

Durability

Far too many showings from this section lol, it almost feels like there's no point in it (if you read opm). Just know every fight he's ever been in, he's never been hurt, injured, beaten, bruised, or even felt pain

Not a single scratch when Beefcake hits him with a barrage of attacks that buries him kilometers underground

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Not a single scratch when he tanks a brutal onslaught of punches from Carnage Kabuto in Asura Mode. Keep in mind BASE Kabuto can overpower small mountain lvl attacks with his BREATH

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Not a single scratch when Boros is hacking away at him

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COMPLETELY no sells an energy blast from Boros that is larger than his ship in scale

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There are two versions of Saitama's fight with Boros in the manga, bot both of them have interesting showings

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No sold^

Meteoric Burst!!!!

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^ Boros punched Saitama so hard, that the force of his blow had enough energy to generate heat capable of melting city blocks worth of his ship

Then he spams punches of equal power

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Carries and shoves a spike down his ass

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Then he kicks him to mf moon. At this point, using Saitama seems ridiculous, because Might Guy is inferior to even Boros in striking...

*CAUTION* This next feat you're about to witness has gone on to become one of the most wanked, most lowballed, most hyped, most downplayed, and most controversial striking feats in recent history

The Kick of God:

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Strategy

It's simple. In fact, far too simple; more simple than Saitama's character design.

How does he win? Saitama punches Guy. That's it. He punches him and he dies. No amount of feats, wanking or speculation can change the outcome of this fight. I barely used 1/4th of all of Saitama's feats, and it's obvious what's gonna happen. Saitama's punches can and will kill Guy, especially since he has no durability showings to resist it.

Conclusion

You know what the best part of this is? When cosmic_lantern responds, he won't be arguing against speculation, nor against scaling, no against wank, but actual feats. Hard-earned, on-panel, blatantly showed, and irrefutably explicit feats. Saitama is superior to Guy in every way, and this is without using feats like-

- Overpowering an attack stated to be able to raze the surface of the earth (continental+/multi-continental DC)

- The scan showing the effect of said punch (AOE)

- Destroying 1/3 of the moons surface by merely jumping off of it

- Blitzing characters with low relativistic reaction and combat speeds

I've come to this conclusion. If you think this is a fair match, you either

  • Really, really, really hate Saitama
  • Have complete ignorance on all his feats and his character, never reading opm in your life
  • Are trolling

Can't get any simpler than that

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Good luck! @cosmic_lantern And may the best man win (:

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#68 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern My opener is up. Rushed it because I won't be able to post tommorow. That being said, are you cool with 3 posts each? I'm gonna be scarce

EDIT: Wait WTF?? You're using base Might Guy? Not even 8 Gates? How weak do you think Saitama is? Building lvl?!

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#69 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#70 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

So is 8 Gates Guy being used or not? I feel like that question hasn't been answered yet.

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#71 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17597 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I am not current on Naruto so I might be wrong, but in the OP it says strongest versions so I assume 8 gates is allowed.

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#72 Posted by Helloman (29664 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#73 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I think Cosmic's intentions were for Guy to start off in base at first, but ultimately decided to go along with the conditions in the OP.

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#74 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: Whilst my Naruto knowledge is limited, it's pretty obvious he'd have to use Guy's strongest state against Saitama.

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#75 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio
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#76 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

Might Guy:

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The Red Beast of the Hidden Leaf, The Gate Keeper of Youth, and Undisputed Grandmaster of the Eight Celestial Gates. Maito Gai.One of the strongest Shinobi to have ever lived and arguably THE fastest as well (Minus a couple Hax). I'm certain everyone here in question has seen him somewhere before so I won't go too deep into his character, but.....Whoever said Guy was your typical Bruce Lee clone obviously lied. This guys Resume is astounding, and all with just good ol' Hand-to-Hand skill. Through sheer hard, grinding, physical, work; Guy has ascended beyond that of the shinobi of Legend, and he is truly One of a Kind.

*Index: DPay attention to these, I will have a series of vocab words that will be described in depth at the end of the post.

On to what he's capable of I have no intention on dragging this out so I'm putting it all on the plate now:

Speed/Skill:

Guy is Irrefutably faster than Saitama.

Before we begin lets go ahead and establish something important first, Guys base physicals are similar if not superior than a 5th gate user hence why he never bothers with using them and skips immediately to 6th.

For example here's Lee unleashing the Beast on Gaara with the only ones capable of seeing Lee at all are Guy, Byakugan Neji, and Sharingan Kakashi(Probably Gaara as well):

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The genuine fact Kakashi used Sharingan in the first place along with praising his speed should be outlined as well. All that the Genin saw was Gaara briefly being ragdolled. Moving on a tad later Guy casually waves Gaara away at point blank range:

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Here he saves Kakashi by blitzing Kisame Mid-swing, Itatchi knows:

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Moving on to thier second encounter Guy Dances with a clone stated to have 30% of his chakra:

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Counter-blitzes Kisame with a mere Gesture:

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Guy is even comparable to KCM Naruto, he was able to combat Obito easily despite Naruto getting clowned on several occasions:

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Theirs quite a few instances of Obito tagging Naruto but all that needs to be outlined is an example of him reacting to his blitz:

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Begins to Make a game of predicting Kamui:

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That should suffice in what showcases Guys Base Combat speed, now on to some of his Gated showings:

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Proceeds to obliterate 'Kisame' before he can fully form a thought. Here he saves Kakashi again this time from point blank TSB from Juudara:

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Saves Naruto out of nowhere after he was just flung across a huge crater and strikes a cool pose(Gag feat, don't take this serious):

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Procedes to engage Juudara in the 7th Gate:

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which IMO is an impressive Endurance feat since he hasn't been healed in ages by this point so basically he's been constantly using the Gates. He managed to surprise Madara twice there in CQC which shouldn't be possible due to Sage Mode, this should give you a gist of what we are dealing with I won't go into Hard detail right now. This should get the point across that Guy is superior in this attribute.

Strength/Striking/DC:

Another area where Guy is superior to Saitama.

To further iterate that Guy is irrefutably faster than Saitama his Striking/Combat speed is as well:

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Nigh-instantly vaporizes a wave of Hundreds of sharks with the sheer friction speed of his punches, Kisame confirms he did it with speed in the next page (top left). That technique is called the Morning peacock btw, he used it earlier in the series against the clone as well:

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Next, Guy opens the 7th gate(Notice the massive indention he makes in the ocean from just powering up btw) and hits Kisame with a Hirudora (Daytime Tiger) that dwarfed an Island before it expanded:

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It's also worth a mention that he did it while also overpowering Kisames even Larger Shark bullet underwater, he even admits all it is, is the shockwave of a really fast punch. Here he proceeds to oneshot Edo-Madara in Susanoo:

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This is the Same Susanoo whose ribs alone could tank a Mountain Carving attack with no visible damage:

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And Here he stalemates Madara's TSB rod giving us a solid view from the godtree(Take note of this feat in particular as I will be coming back to it) :

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It's quite easy to suggest Guy is at the Multi-Mountain level in Striking in 7th gate.

'Lol? You didn't explain much of anything really'

Objection your honor, I am still setting the floor.

Counters:

Since I know what my opponent is going to say why wait? Please note I will use some random dialogue I've seen in previous threads, this however isn't aimed at anyone specifically, but hey if the shoe fits, don't be scared to try it on.

Comparison 1:

'Saitama is Continental! Did you not see him oneshot Boros!!!1!1!(eleven)!':

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First your honor, I want to point out a few things:

>The explosion where this stems from

>The yield of said explosion

>The lack of Destruction within the supposed AoE

Remember that feat above where Hirudora is being compared to the God Tree? Lets make some simple comparisons:

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Easily perceivable from space right? That last one gives you a really good angle to suggest It's size, here's a color scan to get an even better perception:

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That's more than enough to suggest the feats were of similar scale, though you could just as easily say Guys is superior simply due to how large the tree is.

Moving on to the Yield of the explosion my Jury, we all know Saitama managed to only destroy a semi-city sized ship despite stalemating a 'planet busting' (The databook says star) attack, said ship in question:

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Next I'm sure my opponent is going to boast about how it compares to A-City and how it's 'continent sized' as per this map:

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First and foremost we very clearly see the ship isn't even a third of the surrounding area let alone the size of the city but I will give my opponent the benefit of the doubt because the Ship itself is well....city sized with a population on the inside.

Next, my opponent will probably then attempt to argue that Boros is more than such most likely with this scan:

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I see no reason why this showing would somehow label his D/C higher than the ships size (again, clearly perceivable in size) but that's just me.

And Last but definitely not least my Jury what it all boils down to, what was destroyed? The corresponding damage? Are we all on the same page here? This is certainly a good if not textbook example of AoE=/=DC, not to mention the only thing that this argument is hinged on is a Character Statement, Databook Statement, and the name of the attack. With the absolute hilarious thing being that each and everyone of them is inconsistent in correspondence with each other with each having another source to contradict it, For example their are multiple translations for the Manga adaption where star is stated whilst the more mainstream states planet, this Is also the same exact case with the databook.

I must admit to the Jury it is awfully suspicious that people Question the Light Fang feat In Naruto at every turn (especially given the context of the feat) but let this one slide to an almost puzzling degree. Attempting to reason with an unruly fanbase and meet at the halfway point to call it 'surface wiping' is simply lazy debating, the same variables are at hand.

Has he shown he can do an attack of that level? Has ANYONE done an attack of that level in the series? What suggests he's capable of an attack like that?

Comparison 2:

"Saitama is relativistic!!! Boros Kicked him to the Moon with no Damage!":

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I was honestly waiting to hear this, the one simple, irrefutable fact that no time frame was given drastically reduces it's use here. It's quite a few ways to utterly tear this stance apart but that's simply the largest and easiest exploit without the time you can't judge how fast he was going which basically collapses the entire feat on itself in more speculation. However lets analyze the feat a tad more:

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The impact doesn't look too drastic to me, it's impressive that the kick got him there but quantifiably he wouldn't lose any acceleration until he entered the Moons celestial body (even then the gravity isn't as strong). Light takes 1.3 seconds to reach earth from the moon and Vice-versa, most calcs estimate it to be about 3-5 seconds which would effectively classify this about a 3rd or quarter of the speed of light. For a comparison of the level of speed in question the Raikage moves at upward speed when using Lightning flicker so even if I did accept this as a combat feat it's still lacking in a number of ways to appropriately place him near Guys speed level.

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The second scan shows the raikage clearly moving as flash of lightning, he does something similar to Sasuke who basically has the same eyes as the guy who perceived downward speed at nigh-pointblank range:

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Comparison 3:

"Saitama caused a continental sized shockwave on the moon bro!!! Just look at this scan I cropped with the Moon on it!!":

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The actual area of damage(Two most inner rings) is a decent size of the Moons crust however lets begin to oogle at it quantifiably. The moon is less than 2% of earths mass (1.2% to be exact) and the Moon in total area is quite a bit smaller than Asia, you'd be hard pressed arguing this is a small-country level feat if that tbh. It still holds little regards as a combat feat tbh so I wouldn't know where it'd belong in this debate but I'm more than certain it's going to be brought up here. Adding on to the fact that the moon is much less denser, has less gravity, and is obviously much smaller means this feat should've had a more impressive effect in the first place.

I just wanted to get those three feats out the way as I'm well aware most of my opponents argument is going to hinge on them, moving on to his post:

Beefcake proceeds to destroy an city with the swing of his fist (scaling is off, but hey, the statement is there)
Saitama oneshots Beefcake by crumpling his face with a punch, which proceeds to destroy another city in the process.
Conclusion? Saitama was irrefutably mountain lvl+ at this point, and we've already seen casual multi-city busting. People tend to forget how big Beefcake was really intended to be, and why Saitama one-shotting him was so impressive.

You're not debating anyone whose going to be lenient on any of this sort of gibberish whilst also ignoring what's going on in the scans. I could see the case for his size (Not even his size really, just his height) and then scaling from there but you're using someone who busted a city gets oneshotted by Saitama so Saitama is Mountain level+? This is Akin to DBZ scaling.

Firstly I'll accept that he was taller than mountains ect. but how does this make Saitama Mountain level? I mean a human messing up an anthill isn't too hard and that's basically what happened in this example....how does his D/C somehow get tangled up with his Durability and equate to Saitama at this level?

Genos partially destroyed a mountain with a casual blast in the manga, and genuinely mountain busted in the anime (upon reaching the house of evolution)

But the character Dialouge in your very own scan suggests it was anything but casual:

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Kabuto then no solds a blast from Genos later + machine gun blow (at least mountain lvl durability, obviously much higher)

He was obviously damaged as per your own scans, not to mention he blasted him with one hand opposed to two like when he did bust the mountain.....and how does a lazer blast equate to physical durability from punches? Even when you state he used his 'full power' but was obviously near defeated with Saitama telling him not to push himself....

Anyways I see nothing wrong with the label mountain level since all he did was overpower Genos whose shown that's his highest capability.

There is a dragon lvl meteor that no solds Genos' strongest attack, as well as multiple missiles from Metal Knight.
Tanks genos' most powerful ultimate attack. This is Genos with arms mode, using the core for power, and is many times stronger than the one from House of Evolution. An extreme lowball is saying the meteor is multi-mountain lvl

My lord almighty, we very CLEARLY see the size of the meteor and even get a comparison to it from the city:

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I view this as an extreme misinterpretation but even so lets make some more comparrisons:

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Id say a meteor large enough to eclipse the sky easily outweighs the one Saitama punched, or how about an even better example here where the meteor in question absolutely dwarfs the City even when Halved, Lee obliterated his half with no collateral damage and was only in 6th gate.

The meteor was stated to be able to wipe out not just Z-City, but every city in immediate vicinity

OPM statements are clearly over exaggerated at this point, I'm pretty sure you're going to attempt to bust out that Map now as a rebuttal to claim it was somewhere in the country to continent range.

By this point it should be apparent that the meteor is mountain+ to multi mountain with extreme lowball.

I'm really going towards the Mountain+ range by feats, Multi-mountain isn't factually based off anything but speculation. The view from space was nothing but a light show effect like much of the series. It's art is amazing but it doesn't somehow add more to the feat.

Conclusion? Saitama's meteor busting places him at large island/small country in DC.

If you say so.

I have a feeling speed is going to be an important factor in this debate. That being said, Saitama has a ridiculous amount of showings (not nearly as much as strength however) that suggest he won't at least get blitzed by Guy.

I beg to differ, Guy lives in a world where precog is dominant and is still unable to keep track of him. High-end Naruto characters are in the Microsecond range well before the war arc and they would be completely destroyed by Guy, I see no reason to suggest Saitama is any faster than A tbh.

Reacts to FTE movement from SOS Sonic

Naruto was FTE in the VERY first chapter of the series, as well as the first episode of the Manga when running from hypersonic Jonin.

Blitzes Boros

Who has no quantifiable speed feats besides traversing a city sized ship whilst fighting, at best he's hypersonic as well.

Reacts to a surprise attack from Lightspeed Flash

And this is impressive because?

Lightspeed Flash is fast enough to close the distance between his opponent and throw a string of attacks in 1 centisecond

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Cool, BASE Naruto had a full fight scene in the span of a second at a much higher level. That Chibaku tensei crater is about the length of a mountain range:

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Not to mention as I said Itatchi reacted within a Milisecond (microsecond reactionary required):

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This is like halfway into the series, early shippuden.

Blitzes Garou

What's important in those scans? I mean if you wanna see the falling rocks feat replicated Base Guy, Kakashi, KCM Naruto, and Obito had an entire chapters battle within the span of some boulders falling a few stories:

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Whole bout was airborne and expanded into another chapter all together.

^ Boros punched Saitama so hard, that the force of his blow had enough energy to generate heat capable of melting city blocks worth of his ship

Then he spams punches of equal power

I won't even bother with the durability section as most of it has been addressed so far but this is so hilariously false it hurts the credibility of your own argument. Boros releases energy with his strikes, that's basically HIS POWER. I could go on-and-on with more comparisons but this should suffice for opening the floor nicely

Index:

Ah.....Lets put some of these feats into proper perspective now:

Eight Celestial Gates:

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Gates are gone over in depth here, they damage the body from pushing it to it's utmost limit. A durability feat within itself since Guy literally has been hit probably 3 times in the entirety of the series.

Sharingan Kakashi:

One of the fastest shinobi ever due simply to the prowess of the Sharingan which allows him precog:

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From his ability to copy the opponents slightest muscle movement and envision the next possible move, he's given the nickname 'copy cat' for it.

To give you a gist of his speed he canonically split a lightning bolt as a child to perfect Raikiri:

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which means he perceived lightning as a child yet still praised Lee's speed.

Byakugan Neji:

Meh, moreso a feat on his end for being able to see Lee but he can literally see Chakra:

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Kakashi states it's insight is superior to that of the Sharingan as well which is of Note, I won't really drop feats for Neji as I'm in a hurry but that's basically why he was able to see Lee there.

Kisame:

Someone who has dealt with everyone from Kakashi to Bee, he is a very formidable opponent who has even captured Biju. His strength is using the enemies chakra against him which in the case he attempted to use against Guy's Hirudora. He's soundly a high-tier within the verse with the ability to combat various ninja. I won't post any scans as his encounters with Guy basically sum up everything you need to know.

KCM Naruto:

Where the Series effectively began chasing after LS bit-by-bit by beginning with the comparison of the Raikage (Scroll up to see the bout with Minato for reference as well). He is able to react to the Raikage (Upward speed) at pointblank range with nothing but pure physical speed:

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Obito/Kamui:

whose roughly on the same level if not above did it as well:

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You can also check the scans above for him clowning Naruto.

Edo-Madara/Juudara:

Ah......the great grandmaster of literally everything in the verse.....firstly to iterate the durability of his Susanoo:

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Tanks high level Lava release ontop of A bombarding him and isn't even remotely bothered.

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Takes multiple mountain level jutsu collabs to destroy his Susanoo and he still sustains no damage. Is fast enough to no sell a blitz from BM Naruto whilst still Edo:

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This should be more than enough to merit Guy oneshotting him as impressive, now onto.....

TSB/Juudara:

Utterly embarrasses the trio of Gaara, Kakashi, and Minato with the latter being able to teleport instantly, with one move:

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That isn't a TSB feat but it is very cool. Here he stops Juubito from using Kamui:

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TSB can tank 4 BB simultaneously from the Juubi:

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Just ONE is capable of doing this:

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THIS is what Mountain to Country level attacks look like, starting from the bottom right those 5 holes are completely vaporized mountains, the crater the Juubi is in is Multi-mountain BB from Kurama and Hachibi and as you can CLEARLY see the Juubi just oneshot a country. No scaling or outside phenomenon needed, 100% irrefutable canon only.

So Yes Guy managing to push back Madara with Hirudora despite having weapons capable of tanking such attacks is well beyond the Merit needed to suggest he'd be able to hurt Saitama. Not only that but lets focus back towards the speed of them, we already know it trumps obitos jump speed who could casually react to the raikage, KCM/BM Naruto, and counter kakashi. but heres Juubito casually checkmating Minato Mid-blitz before he could jump away:

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Game'd Minato, Sticky bomb'd him, Tobi comes in casually playing keep away, teleportation attack still blocked by TSB; Keep in mind this is Juubito, quite a bit of ways inferior to Juudara who Embarrassed Tobi well before he absorbed the Biju:

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Afterwards he games Minato similarly (Above).

Ok, this is a feat for both Tobi(rama) and Juubito, tobi is a teleporter like Minato however he's much more aggressive in Combat. Here Juubito blitzes him, but isn't surprised he got tagged and shields with TSB point blank:

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Am I saying TSB move faster than teleportation? Hell no, but I am saying reacting to characters who are physically faster than lightning at pointblank range casually is quantifiably in the low Microsecond to high nanosecond range. So Yes Guy outpacing them in 6th gate showcases he's on a different level of speed all together.

Also I didn't highlight this one but I feel it's going to be Important so I will speak on it:

Sage Mode:

A form of Precog that utilizes natural energy in the surroundings to sense the enemies movements, Naruto who had JUST mastered Sage Mode can feel the chakra of everyone in the city to a personal degree:

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Here he senses the Raikage at pointblank range despite the latter moving at full speed:

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Two ways to look at this feat, if we lowball the raikage to downwards speed (Even though I've just shown you two examples of Kakashi and Itatchi reacting to downwards speed) Naruto is a solid Microsecond timer, If we go by upwards he's approaching that Nanosecond capability. Either which way is fine by me but IMO since he's an EDO which is canonically inferior to his living self I'd place him a tad under A. Now onto Madaras sage mode, he stole it from canonically the strongest senjutsu user in the series until the final amps and still jokes about it as if it was beneath him:

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Keep in mind he just blitzed passed SM Naruto in that scan without the need of Eyes, it's an absolute no brainer that Naruto's SM is inferior to Hashiramas from this sequence of scans alone, no need to delve into the Multi-mountain sized Statues Hash can create and such.

This should easily be able to put some feats into perspective however I'm more than certain I'm still missing something......eh who cares it's the weekend, I'll get to it in my next post...

Game:

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Yea...lets wrap this up....Guys ultimate form it's on a completely different level than ANYTHING Saitama has ever showcased to my knowledge and this fanart confirms it. Behold his hardwork:

Guy unquestionably blitzes Madara leaving him no other option but to guard:

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Flat out overpowers him sending him MILES within the earths crust with a shockwave of one of his punches, even states that getting hit by 4-5 of them would be bad (and is scared of getting hit directly) when the Juubi alone has eaten its own BB to the face unbothered.

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Moves at a constant rate above his eyes perception and almost too much for his Sage mode, Guy easily switches direction faster than he can react and traps him in the Evening elephant.

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Procedes to punch him through the TSB shield.

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Then finally unleashes the Nightmoth, an attack that warps space (Undeniably LS). However I do believe the Evening elephant to still be quite a ways superior to the Night moth simply due to the fact that Guy announced he was going to end it with that whilst when using the former which is a constant level of speed he had a much harder time.Basically since I can confirm Madara did indeed react to a LS attack placing him in Nanosecond capability reaction wise and Guy moves at a rate that Taxes his perception, Guy can physically move inbetween Nanoseconds. Simple enough?

CONCLUSION/Closing Statements:

It's simple. In fact, far too simple; more simple than Saitama's character design.

How does he win? Saitama punches Guy. That's it. He punches him and he dies. No amount of feats, wanking or speculation can change the outcome of this fight. I barely used 1/4th of all of Saitama's feats, and it's obvious what's gonna happen. Saitama's punches can and will kill Guy, especially since he has no durability showings to resist it.

A strategy that resembles nothing sound and disregards feats of both characters, it's safe to simply say this isn't going to work for you.

You know what the best part of this is? When cosmic_lantern responds, he won't be arguing against speculation, nor against scaling, no against wank, but actual feats. Hard-earned, on-panel, blatantly showed, and irrefutably explicit feats. Saitama is superior to Guy in every way, and this is without using feats like-

You basically summed up the opposite of your entire post, amazing.

- Overpowering an attack stated to be able to raze the surface of the earth (continental+/multi-continental DC)

A character statement about as factual as Madara stating his Susanoo can smash all things in the universe.

- The scan showing the effect of said punch (AOE)

Which is hilariously cute by this point in time of the Manga, he moved some clouds, do you want a cookie?

- Destroying 1/3 of the moons surface by merely jumping off of it

LOL a third!?!?!

- Blitzing characters with low relativistic reaction and combat speeds

Based off absolutely nothing.

I've come to this conclusion. If you think this is a fair match, you either

I can't see how you logically came to any conclusion here.

Really, really, really hate Saitama

I don't hate characters, I hate fanbases.

Have complete ignorance on all his feats and his character, never reading opm in your life

From the looks of It I know the series more than you so far.

Are trolling

The Devils Advocate is a deadly game to play (One of which you certainly won't win against me), I could argue part 1 Sakura over Saitama if this is all you bring to the table but no, Guy Genuinely stomps Saitama and would solo the entire Hero Association before anyone could even register the word 'Kai'. You have no argument as to otherwise (My favorite line needed to be used at least once here).

Can't get any simpler than that

Indeed it can't tis' why I've got a plethora of evidence that towers over your stance.

Why Guy wins:

  • Guy Hits harder than Saitama
  • Is Leagues faster both quantifiably and by scaling
  • My opponent doesn't have a sound argument for physicals at all
  • Even if we were under the assumption that Saitama could react to Guy he's laughably outskilled
  • Saitama has utterly no way of perceiving guy at all if Madara with two forms of precog can't
  • Lastly, you did the stupidest thing possible with the current rules. You're basically fighting an 8th gate guy indefinitely which is by far a mismatch in every sense of the word and then on top of that make him composite. I could win this debate solely off of Guys Video Game feats but I like to put my money where my mouth Is in which I stated, Canon Guy would Stomp Saitama.

Guy Blitzes in 8th gate and pounds him with evening Elephant to end it, Night moth isn't needed but would also oneshot saitama.

Good luck! @cosmic_lantern And may the best man win (:

Keep every grain of luck you can gather bud, I've got a bag of inspiration with every type of cereal available in the US. I'm a very dangerous man atm.

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#77 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: tagged

EDIT: forgive any formatting or grammar issues because I sure as hell don't feel like fixing them and don't plan on it

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#78 Posted by Sayo786 (562 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow this guy actually thinks guy has better striking and speed than saitama ._.

The same guy who thought naruto and sauce would beat composite hulk ._.

@god_vulcan I doubt hes going to allow my vote to count but T4V

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#79 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: Dude, a third of your post was dedicated to debunking claims I didn't even MAKE in my opener lol

How much have Saitama fans pissed you off??

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#80 Edited by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@sayo786 said:

Wow this guy actually thinks guy has better striking and speed than saitama ._.

Tell ya what, I'll let you team up with GV here if you want?

The same guy who thought naruto and sauce would beat composite hulk ._.

Your imagination seems to be awfully expansive, don't worry though I'm continuing with my stance that Naruto/Sasuke can definitely damage Savage Hulk. You already know better than to argue otherwise against me.

@god_vulcan I doubt hes going to allow my vote to count but T4V

No thank you, you can go somewhere else with that. However I'll give you the exact same treatment in a debate any time of your choosing.

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#81 Edited by Darthjhawk (5472 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang, this is getting good, but a little heated.

@god_vulcan:, @cosmic_lantern, If possible, could you guys tag me after each post? Want to read them as soon as they come.

Online
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#83 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: I wasn't planning on counting Sayo's vote

As well as like 2 other people who asked to he tagged, due to well known bias. I'll pm you later

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#84 Edited by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern

Caped Baldy

Fear the Red Glove
Fear the Red Glove

Alright. Let's dissect and debunk

@cosmic_lantern said:

Speed/Skill:

Guy is Irrefutably faster than Saitama.

Before we begin lets go ahead and establish something important first, Guys base physicals are similar if not superior than a 5th gate user hence why he never bothers with using them and skips immediately to 6th.

For example here's Lee unleashing the Beast on Gaara with the only ones capable of seeing Lee at all are Guy, Byakugan Neji, and Sharingan Kakashi(Probably Gaara as well):

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The genuine fact Kakashi used Sharingan in the first place along with praising his speed should be outlined as well. All that the Genin saw was Gaara briefly being ragdolled. Moving on a tad later Guy casually waves Gaara away at point blank range:

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Here he saves Kakashi by blitzing Kisame Mid-swing, Itatchi knows:

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Moving on to thier second encounter Guy Dances with a clone stated to have 30% of his chakra:

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Counter-blitzes Kisame with a mere Gesture:

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Guy is even comparable to KCM Naruto, he was able to combat Obito easily despite Naruto getting clowned on several occasions:

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Theirs quite a few instances of Obito tagging Naruto but all that needs to be outlined is an example of him reacting to his blitz:

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Begins to Make a game of predicting Kamui:

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That should suffice in what showcases Guys Base Combat speed, now on to some of his Gated showings:

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Proceeds to obliterate 'Kisame' before he can fully form a thought. Here he saves Kakashi again this time from point blank TSB from Juudara:

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Saves Naruto out of nowhere after he was just flung across a huge crater and strikes a cool pose(Gag feat, don't take this serious):

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Procedes to engage Juudara in the 7th Gate:

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which IMO is an impressive Endurance feat since he hasn't been healed in ages by this point so basically he's been constantly using the Gates. He managed to surprise Madara twice there in CQC which shouldn't be possible due to Sage Mode, this should give you a gist of what we are dealing with I won't go into Hard detail right now. This should get the point across that Guy is superior in this attribute.

^ Sorry, but that whole thing wasn't needed. Numerous scaling to other characters and all it proves is something that we already know; Guy was MHS at that point, and that doesn't even trump Garou's speed. Later in the webcomic Garou virtually blitzed the entire verse (all the high tier S-Class heroes and Dragon lvl threats) some of whom are massively hypersonic (Like LS Flash, Golden Sperm, and Tatsumaki) and was outpacing casual Saitama who's in the low-relativistic range. But yes I know Guy is fast, I never made the argument that Saitama was faster, just that he wouldn't get blitzed if he was serious

Strength/Striking/DC:

Another area where Guy is superior to Saitama.

Yikes... But's let's see what you have to say

To further iterate that Guy is irrefutably faster than Saitama his Striking/Combat speed is as well:

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Nigh-instantly vaporizes a wave of Hundreds of sharks with the sheer friction speed of his punches, Kisame confirms he did it with speed in the next page (top left). That technique is called the Morning peacock btw, he used it earlier in the series against the clone as well:

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Next, Guy opens the 7th gate(Notice the massive indention he makes in the ocean from just powering up btw) and hits Kisame with a Hirudora (Daytime Tiger) that dwarfed an Island before it expanded:

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It's also worth a mention that he did it while also overpowering Kisames even Larger Shark bullet underwater, he even admits all it is, is the shockwave of a really fast punch. Here he proceeds to oneshot Edo-Madara in Susanoo:

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This is the Same Susanoo whose ribs alone could tank a Mountain Carving attack with no visible damage:

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And Here he stalemates Madara's TSB rod giving us a solid view from the godtree(Take note of this feat in particular as I will be coming back to it) :

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It's quite easy to suggest Guy is at the Multi-Mountain level in Striking in 7th gate.

'Lol? You didn't explain much of anything really'

Objection your honor, I am still setting the floor.

Those would be impressive, but both Morning Peacock and Afternoon Tiger are inferior to Saitama's island lvl+ meteor busting, so you still have yet to prove a feat from Guy that trumps Saitama in striking.

Counters:

Since I know what my opponent is going to say why wait? Please note I will use some random dialogue I've seen in previous threads, this however isn't aimed at anyone specifically, but hey if the shoe fits, don't be scared to try it on.

Comparison 1:

'Saitama is Continental! Did you not see him oneshot Boros!!!1!1!(eleven)!':

First your honor, I want to point out a few things:

Objection! First, nothing you've debunked is anything I've said, rather wank from OPM fans

>The explosion where this stems from

>The yield of said explosion

>The lack of Destruction within the supposed AoE

None of those things pertain to the actual feat. The AOE was just the shockwave left over from the punch, and I don't even know what explosion you're talking about, nor did there have to be one.

Remember that feat above where Hirudora is being compared to the God Tree? Lets make some simple comparisons:

Easily perceivable from space right? That last one gives you a really good angle to suggest It's size, here's a color scan to get an even better perception:

That's more than enough to suggest the feats were of similar scale, though you could just as easily say Guys is superior simply due to how large the tree is.

You're basing feat superiority based on visual scale? LOL. You would hate the webcomic then (and no wonder you downplayed the hell out of serious punch and roar canon). Not only that, Guy's attack was incredibly small compared to the God tree, whose base is multi-mountain sized; so in other words, you have still yet to prove anything superior to Saitama.

Moving on to the Yield of the explosion my Jury, we all know Saitama managed to only destroy a semi-city sized ship

There are dozens of scans to show Boros' ship is city sized.

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despite stalemating a 'planet busting'

It was a surface wiper, and he didn't stalemate it, he overpowered it by splitting it into two

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(The databook says star) attack, said ship in question:

I showed manga scans that prove it's larger than that one pic and I'm using the weakest version of Saitama (the continental+ one) so I don't care for databook statements.

Next I'm sure my opponent is going to boast about how it compares to A-City and how it's 'continent sized' as per this map:

First and foremost we very clearly see the ship isn't even a third of the surrounding area let alone the size of the city

I'm not using that map, there's too much contradiction to believe the cities in OPM are country sized, like Beefcake destroying one by swinging his hand then busting another one by falling on it. And Boros' ship is clearly city sized, the pic in the OP is enough to prove that

but I will give my opponent the benefit of the doubt because the Ship itself is well....city sized with a population on the inside.

Thank you

Next, my opponent will probably then attempt to argue that Boros is more than such most likely with this scan:

I see no reason why this showing would somehow label his D/C higher than the ships size (again, clearly perceivable in size) but that's just me.

You know the best part about that scan you just posted? Because it shows just how large the area Boros vaporized was, as it scales to this:

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And Boros vaporized it

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And Last but definitely not least my Jury what it all boils down to, what was destroyed? The corresponding damage? Are we all on the same page here? This is certainly a good if not textbook example of AoE=/=DC, not to mention the only thing that this argument is hinged on is a Character Statement, Databook Statement, and the name of the attack.

You trying to debunk Boros' roar canon because it didn't destroy a continent isn't fair. You're saying because the AOE didn't do more than destroy the ship it wasn't continental, but let's see some key factors and compare it's similarities to Naruto and Sasuke's clash at the valley of the end.

1. Saitama and Boros were aerial when their two attacks met. So were Naruto and Sasuke when Indra's Arrow clashed with Six Paths Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken

2. Saitama overpowered the beam and cleaved it into two, and the shockwave of the punch still had enough force to overload Boros' regeneration and travel tens of thousands of miles across the planet. When Naruto and Sasuke's jutsu collided it created shockwaves that were felt countries away

3. We know Naruto and Sasuke's attacks were country+, and we know Saitama can bust meteors and create small country lvl explosions visible from space

Based on these 3 points, you're reasoning for why Boros' roar canon is invalid and somewhat hypocritical considering you're holding the OPM series to a double standard. As for my voters, if you want me to use Guy I can. Going of my opponents logic, Might Guy's Hirudora dwarfed an island, but since it didn't actually bust the island it's not island lvl. Same thing with Night Guy, the environmental damage was no where near as powerful as it should've been considering how strong the attack was.

So back to my conclusion? You can't downplay Serious Punch and Roar Canon because it didn't destroy anything in it's immediate vicinity, it was stated to be a surface wiper (no reason for Boros to be bluffing), and it was shown that the range of the attack was continental per this scan

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As well as this beautiful gif

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Officially debunked.

With the absolute hilarious thing being that each and everyone of them is inconsistent in correspondence with each other with each having another source to contradict it, For example their are multiple translations for the Manga adaption where star is stated whilst the more mainstream states planet, this Is also the same exact case with the databook.

I'm not using databooks. I'm using webcomic and manga only for this fight, so that you won't cry about non-canon source material (which you're already doing even though I didn't have my post up yet)

I must admit to the Jury it is awfully suspicious that people Question the Light Fang feat In Naruto at every turn (especially given the context of the feat) but let this one slide to an almost puzzling degree. Attempting to reason with an unruly fanbase and meet at the halfway point to call it 'surface wiping' is simply lazy debating, the same variables are at hand.

You're completely derailing now, and just complaining about the OPM fanbase

Has he shown he can do an attack of that level? Has ANYONE done an attack of that level in the series? What suggests he's capable of an attack like that?

What are you talking about? Are you trying to say it's an outlier now? Smh, if we label every high end showing for a character as an outlier because we think they're weak then entire verses wuld be drastically lower. it's not an outlier because it needed a serious attack from Saitama to do so, and though we've never seen his upper limits we know his weaker and casual punches are country lvl. Continental for Roar Canon is fair game

Comparison 2:

"Saitama is relativistic!!! Boros Kicked him to the Moon with no Damage!":

Again, another claim I didn't make. I do believe, Saitama is sub-relativistic, but not because of the moon kick.

I was honestly waiting to hear this,

Sorry to disappoint

the one simple, irrefutable fact that no time frame was given drastically reduces it's use here.

It's more of a striking feat anyways

It's quite a few ways to utterly tear this stance apart but that's simply the largest and easiest exploit without the time you can't judge how fast he was going which basically collapses the entire feat on itself in more speculation. However lets analyze the feat a tad more:

To be fair, there was a time frame given in the anime. Either way, he couldn't have taken too long to reach the moon. Worst case scenario, it took a few seconds

The impact doesn't look too drastic to me, it's impressive that the kick got him there but quantifiably he wouldn't lose any acceleration until he entered the Moons celestial body (even then the gravity isn't as strong). Light takes 1.3 seconds to reach earth from the moon and Vice-versa, most calcs estimate it to be about 3-5 seconds which would effectively classify this about a 3rd or quarter of the speed of light.

Most calcs that quantified Boros' moon kick used the cinematic timeframe from the anime, in which it took him around 3 seconds to make the trip (low relativistic). The impact not being drastic doesn't lessen the feat to be honest. When Saitama came back from the moon with the force of a small meteorite he barely made a crater

For a comparison of the level of speed in question the Raikage moves at upward speed when using Lightning flicker so even if I did accept this as a combat feat it's still lacking in a number of ways to appropriately place him near Guys speed level.

The second scan shows the raikage clearly moving as flash of lightning, he does something similar to Sasuke who basically has the same eyes as the guy who perceived downward speed at nigh-pointblank range:

Lightning is only MHS, which isn't impressive at this point.

Comparison 3:

"Saitama caused a continental sized shockwave on the moon bro!!! Just look at this scan I cropped with the Moon on it!!":

The actual area of damage(Two most inner rings) is a decent size of the Moons crust however lets begin to oogle at it quantifiably. The moon is less than 2% of earths mass (1.2% to be exact) and the Moon in total area is quite a bit smaller than Asia, you'd be hard pressed arguing this is a small-country level feat if that tbh. It still holds little regards as a combat feat tbh so I wouldn't know where it'd belong in this debate but I'm more than certain it's going to be brought up here. Adding on to the fact that the moon is much less denser, has less gravity, and is obviously much smaller means this feat should've had a more impressive effect in the first place.

I want to bring Toneri into this so bad... I'm sorry, but seeing a Naruto fan debunk a moon feat is just so out of the ordinary. And Saitama busted about a third of the surface

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I just wanted to get those three feats out the way as I'm well aware most of my opponents argument is going to hinge on them, moving on to his post:

All three of those feats, even when debunked by you, are superior to anything Guy has shown DC wise

You're not debating anyone whose going to be lenient on any of this sort of gibberish whilst also ignoring what's going on in the scans. I could see the case for his size (Not even his size really, just his height) and then scaling from there but you're using someone who busted a city gets oneshotted by Saitama so Saitama is Mountain level+? This is Akin to DBZ scaling.

Firstly I'll accept that he was taller than mountains ect. but how does this make Saitama Mountain level? I mean a human messing up an anthill isn't too hard and that's basically what happened in this example....how does his D/C somehow get tangled up with his Durability and equate to Saitama at this level?

Oneshotting a mass that dwarfs mountains would put you at mountain lvl. If Guy oneshotted the Shinju Tree, he would multi-mountainf for doing so, based on how large it is. If a character can bust something larger than a planet in size, they wouldn't be anything less than planet level. Besides, the next tier after city lvl is mountain lvl, and Beefcake destroys cities by flicking his wrist. So when he knocks Saitama into the ground and pounds away, he creates a crater (that when calc'd by pixels) is comparable to him in depth (somewhere around mountain lvl)

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But the character Dialouge in your very own scan suggests it was anything but casual:

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Casual as in he did it on a whim with no effort, which the word 'mercy' doesn't refute. Just means he's cold-hearted

He was obviously damaged as per your own scans, not to mention he blasted him with one hand opposed to two like when he did bust the mountain.....and how does a lazer blast equate to physical durability from punches? Even when you state he used his 'full power' but was obviously near defeated with Saitama telling him not to push himself....

Um... that scan showed his face with some DBZ rage, yet he blew the top off that mountain without any strain. Basically he poured all of his power into that blast against Kabuto, so it couldn't be anything less than city to mountain and Kabuto overpowered it by exhaling

Anyways I see nothing wrong with the label mountain level since all he did was overpower Genos whose shown that's his highest capability.

Thank you for being reasonable

My lord almighty, we very CLEARLY see the size of the meteor and even get a comparison to it from the city:

It was still potent enough to no-sold a mountain lvl blast and was capable of wiping out multiple cities

I view this as an extreme misinterpretation but even so lets make some more comparrisons:

Madar's meteor was pretty powerful but it was stopped rather easily. His only saving grace was that there were two but yea regardless it's impressive.

Id say a meteor large enough to eclipse the sky easily outweighs the one Saitama punched, or how about an even better example here where the meteor in question absolutely dwarfs the City even when Halved, Lee obliterated his half with no collateral damage and was only in 6th gate.

Lee had the help of several other taijutsu users, all of whom were in sixth gate... So that feat is shared with like bunch of unnamed fodder. Though I can agree he contributed most of the force

OPM statements are clearly over exaggerated at this point, I'm pretty sure you're going to attempt to bust out that Map now as a rebuttal to claim it was somewhere in the country to continent range

If you read OPM I'm sure you'd know about the context... Everyone's ife was on the line and Genos was making a critical analysis. There was no way in hell he was exaggerating. Similar to Boros who stated he was using all of his power

I'm really going towards the Mountain+ range by feats, Multi-mountain isn't factually based off anything but speculation. The view from space was nothing but a light show effect like much of the series. It's art is amazing but it doesn't somehow add more to the feat.

Called it! I knew at some point you would say the explosion was just the light, but in reality the interior of the meteor was blue (you posted a scan showing that), and when it exploded the shockwaves from it being dispersed were also blue. There isn't much of a difference between mountain+ and multi mountain so I'm not gonna debunk that. I also agree that the art of OPM is fantastic which is one of the reasons why the anime is wanked so hard

If you say so.

Glad to know we agree on several things

I beg to differ, Guy lives in a world where precog is dominant and is still unable to keep track of him.

Garou had precog too, and Saitama overcame that. Though idk if you've read the webcomic so I'm gonna have to post scans on it sooner or later

High-end Naruto characters are in the Microsecond range well before the war arc and they would be completely destroyed by Guy, I see no reason to suggest Saitama is any faster than A tbh.

A at absolute best is a lightning timer. Garou was blitzed an entire tier of characters around that speed

Naruto was FTE in the VERY first chapter of the series, as well as the first episode of the Manga when running from hypersonic Jonin.

That was just a low end feat. 90% of all shonen manga have FTE characters

Who has no quantifiable speed feats besides traversing a city sized ship whilst fighting, at best he's hypersonic as well.

His best speed feat is trading blows with Saitama, who is faster than hypersonic.

And this is impressive because?

I said why in the post after

Cool, BASE Naruto had a full fight scene in the span of a second at a much higher level. That Chibaku tensei crater is about the length of a mountain range:

That chibaku tensei thing was random, and Pain doesn't have any significant speed feats except for ganging up on Kakashi, who is supposedly a lightning timer.

Not to mention as I said Itatchi reacted within a Milisecond (microsecond reactionary required):

This is like halfway into the series, early shippuden.

Where are you getting these numbers from? Aim-dodging lightning does take microsecond reactionary, but there are many other variables to be accounted for- one of them being Itachi never actually dodged Kirin (had reacted to it though by deploying Susanoo)

What's important in those scans?

To show that he's faster than garou lol

I mean if you wanna see the falling rocks feat replicated Base Guy, Kakashi, KCM Naruto, and Obito had an entire chapters battle within the span of some boulders falling a few stories:

Whole bout was airborne and expanded into another chapter all together.

Which is fast, but unquantifiable. Tbh I don't wanna spam Garou's scans so if you want to know his stats just check the respect thread that I made for him some time ago

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/garou-respect-thread-one-punch-man-1867955/

Saitama's best stand-alone speed feat is jumping from the moon back to earth in the time it took Boros to complete a thought

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Even reading those scans, you know damn well it couldn't have taken that long; Boros literally made ONE statement after he jumped and Saitama was back. An extreme lowball is 10 seconds, which means he still punched in at mach 120,000 (low relativistic). But I know what you're gonna say "that's not a combat feat!!", but Saitama jumping at those speed suggest he can run at those speeds, something which can be tied to combat. And to put it into context, the distance between the moon and earth is 384,000 km, which means all 9 planets in the solar system can fit in it side by side with room to spare- so Saitama can leap interplanetary diameters in a single bound (what's more impressive is Boros kicking him there)

An actual combat speed showing (though much slower) is blitzing SOS Sonic, who can make use of speed clones (high hypersonic at least). Merely shifting side to side created dozens of speed clones, and he was able to walk while doing it. In sonic words, "it was an infinite amount of clones faster than him" (this is a MHS combat feat, making just a couple speed clones requires high hypersonic body movements, especially if they're fast enough to attack independently)

I won't even bother with the durability section as most of it has been addressed so far but this is so hilariously false it hurts the credibility of your own argument. Boros releases energy with his strikes, that's basically HIS POWER. I could go on-and-on with more comparisons but this should suffice for opening the floor nicely

I've seen this argument before. Boros said he uses his latent energy to propel his physicals, he doesn't actually release energy in his strikes. It's like humans; we use energy from calories stored in our body to complete daily activities, and even though we expend energy were not physically releasing it in a tangible form outside. What proves my point is the fact the Boros HIMSELF compared using Meteoric Burst to anaerobic excercise

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So no, you're attempt to lowball Boros' punch due to using energy is false. The only time Boros releases energy outside his body is when he projects it as a beam

Ah.....Lets put some of these feats into proper perspective now:

Eight Celestial Gates:

Gates are gone over in depth here, they damage the body from pushing it to it's utmost limit. A durability feat within itself since Guy literally has been hit probably 3 times in the entirety of the series.

Tbh, I was gonna rip on you about that before, but good to know we both can acknowledge Guy doesn't have any actual durability feats to suggest he can tank Saitama's punches.

Sharingan Kakashi:

One of the fastest shinobi ever due simply to the prowess of the Sharingan which allows him precog:

From his ability to copy the opponents slightest muscle movement and envision the next possible move, he's given the nickname 'copy cat' for it.

To give you a gist of his speed he canonically split a lightning bolt as a child to perfect Raikiri:

which means he perceived lightning as a child yet still praised Lee's speed.

A character getting praised for their speed isn't an actaul feat, and it was already conceded that Kakashi was a lightning timer

Byakugan Neji:

Meh, moreso a feat on his end for being able to see Lee but he can literally see Chakra:

Kakashi states it's insight is superior to that of the Sharingan as well which is of Note, I won't really drop feats for Neji as I'm in a hurry but that's basically why he was able to see Lee there.

Don't even know what to debunk here. This isn't a feat nor is it a scale to anyone relative nor does it matter

Kisame:

Someone who has dealt with everyone from Kakashi to Bee, he is a very formidable opponent who has even captured Biju. His strength is using the enemies chakra against him which in the case he attempted to use against Guy's Hirudora. He's soundly a high-tier within the verse with the ability to combat various ninja. I won't post any scans as his encounters with Guy basically sum up everything you need to know.

Cool

KCM Naruto:

Where the Series effectively began chasing after LS bit-by-bit by beginning with the comparison of the Raikage (Scroll up to see the bout with Minato for reference as well). He is able to react to the Raikage (Upward speed) at pointblank range with nothing but pure physical speed:

That's nice

Obito/Kamui:

whose roughly on the same level if not above did it as well:

Edo-Madara/Juudara:

Ah......the great grandmaster of literally everything in the verse.....firstly to iterate the durability of his Susanoo:

Tanks high level Lava release ontop of A bombarding him and isn't even remotely bothered.

Takes multiple mountain level jutsu collabs to destroy his Susanoo and he still sustains no damage. Is fast enough to no sell a blitz from BM Naruto whilst still Edo:

This should be more than enough to merit Guy oneshotting him as impressive, now onto.....

TSB/Juudara:

Utterly embarrasses the trio of Gaara, Kakashi, and Minato with the latter being able to teleport instantly, with one move:

That isn't a TSB feat but it is very cool. Here he stops Juubito from using Kamui:

TSB can tank 4 BB simultaneously from the Juubi:

Just ONE is capable of doing this:

THIS is what Mountain to Country level attacks look like, starting from the bottom right those 5 holes are completely vaporized mountains, the crater the Juubi is in is Multi-mountain BB from Kurama and Hachibi and as you can CLEARLY see the Juubi just oneshot a country. No scaling or outside phenomenon needed, 100% irrefutable canon only.

Not impressive. Saitama one shotted a large country sized area of the moon by jumping

So Yes Guy managing to push back Madara with Hirudora despite having weapons capable of tanking such attacks is well beyond the Merit needed to suggest he'd be able to hurt Saitama.

Maybe... but he can counter it by punching it away

Not only that but lets focus back towards the speed of them, we already know it trumps obitos jump speed who could casually react to the raikage, KCM/BM Naruto, and counter kakashi. but heres Juubito casually checkmating Minato Mid-blitz before he could jump away:

Game'd Minato, Sticky bomb'd him, Tobi comes in casually playing keep away, teleportation attack still blocked by TSB; Keep in mind this is Juubito, quite a bit of ways inferior to Juudara who Embarrassed Tobi well before he absorbed the Biju:

Afterwards he games Minato similarly (Above).

Ok, this is a feat for both Tobi(rama) and Juubito, tobi is a teleporter like Minato however he's much more aggressive in Combat. Here Juubito blitzes him, but isn't surprised he got tagged and shields with TSB point blank:

Am I saying TSB move faster than teleportation? Hell no, but I am saying reacting to characters who are physically faster than lightning at pointblank range casually is quantifiably in the low Microsecond to high nanosecond range. So Yes Guy outpacing them in 6th gate showcases he's on a different level of speed all together.

I'm not gonna lie to you, I forgot most of that, and it's probably more impressive than all the blitzing Garou had to do to get to where he's at. In terms of speed, Guy is one of the fastest in the Narutoverse, but nothing you've posted so far says he can blitz low relativistic characters. I see you keep nerfing Guy because you think 8 gates would be too much for Saitama, but you're hurting yourself here because nothing he's shown would blitz a Guy who can cross hundreds of thousands of miles in seconds to continue a fight. And if we want to use speculation, the timeframe it took Boros to kick him there is shorter and can be divided evenly between speed and strength to make both of them relativistic all around.

Sage Mode:

A form of Precog that utilizes natural energy in the surroundings to sense the enemies movements, Naruto who had JUST mastered Sage Mode can feel the chakra of everyone in the city to a personal degree:

Here he senses the Raikage at pointblank range despite the latter moving at full speed:

Two ways to look at this feat, if we lowball the raikage to downwards speed (Even though I've just shown you two examples of Kakashi and Itatchi reacting to downwards speed) Naruto is a solid Microsecond timer, If we go by upwards he's approaching that Nanosecond capability. Either which way is fine by me but IMO since he's an EDO which is canonically inferior to his living self I'd place him a tad under A. Now onto Madaras sage mode, he stole it from canonically the strongest senjutsu user in the series until the final amps and still jokes about it as if it was beneath him:

Keep in mind he just blitzed passed SM Naruto in that scan without the need of Eyes, it's an absolute no brainer that Naruto's SM is inferior to Hashiramas from this sequence of scans alone, no need to delve into the Multi-mountain sized Statues Hash can create and such.

This should easily be able to put some feats into perspective however I'm more than certain I'm still missing something......eh who cares it's the weekend, I'll get to it in my next post...

I'll ignore this part, I know most of your Index section was to provide context for your claims earlier in the debate so stuff like this doesn't need to be countered

Game:

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Cool picture of Guy btw

Yea...lets wrap this up....Guys ultimate form it's on a completely different level than ANYTHING Saitama has ever showcased to my knowledge and this fanart confirms it. Behold his hardwork:

Speed is debatable, but definitely not in terms of striking or durability.

Guy unquestionably blitzes Madara leaving him no other option but to guard:

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Blitzing Madara and Night Guy are his best speed feats and place him at relativistic so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for them

Flat out overpowers him sending him MILES within the earths crust

How is this impressive? Boros kicked him to the the moon, and that distance can fit 30 earth sized planets side by side in-between it... lol you're getting impressed by miles

with a shockwave of one of his punches, even states that getting hit by 4-5 of them would be bad (and is scared of getting hit directly) when the Juubi alone has eaten its own BB to the face unbothered.

Madara being scared of punches of that caliber means he'll shit his pants from seeing Boros

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Moves at a constant rate above his eyes perception and almost too much for his Sage mode, Guy easily switches direction faster than he can react and traps him in the Evening elephant.

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Procedes to punch him through the TSB shield.

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None of those striking are impressive. Evening Elephant is inferior to Boros' MB punch that vaporized kilometers of his metallic ship into molten slag and incinerated most of the crew living inside

Then finally unleashes the Nightmoth, an attack that warps space

That's his best striking feat, and going of your logic earlier when debunking roar canon the environmental damage means that the attack was extremely weak.

No but seriously, Night Guy is impressive, but Saitama no sold a kick that sent him to the moon and bending space was more speed than anything. In terms of DC, you haven't proven it enough to overcome Saitama's absurd durability, and Guy literally shattered his leg and practically died for that feat, so it's definitely not something he'd use in character.

(Undeniably LS).

No it was relativistic. Objects moving at or close to the speed of light gain infinite mass and nigh-infinite energy, and Guy obviously had neither of those

However I do believe the Evening elephant to still be quite a ways superior to the Night moth simply due to the fact that Guy announced he was going to end it with that whilst when using the former which is a constant level of speed he had a much harder time.Basically since I can confirm Madara did indeed react to a LS attack placing him in Nanosecond capability reaction wise and Guy moves at a rate that Taxes his perception, Guy can physically move inbetween Nanoseconds. Simple enough?

Madara reacted to Night Guy but couldn't do anything aboiut because space was warped, so I guess saying he has nanosecond reaction time is fair but Guy blitzing Madara moments before doesn't really make sense, especially considering Night Guy was his fastest quantifiable attack

CONCLUSION/Closing Statements:

A strategy that resembles nothing sound and disregards feats of both characters, it's safe to simply say this isn't going to work for you.

Then please my good sir, post me a single durability showing that suggest Guy can tank Saitama attacks?

That's what I thought.

And before you say Guy can dodge his punches, please remember the range of Saitama's hits (AOE):

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So yeah...

You basically summed up the opposite of your entire post, amazing.

Your post had more scaling and speculation than mine actually

A character statement about as factual as Madara stating his Susanoo can smash all things in the universe.

Except it wasn't a bluff nor a gloat because he put his life on the line, and the statement is 100% true. I already debunked the reasoning for why you think roar canon is weaker than it actually is

Which is hilariously cute by this point in time of the Manga, he moved some clouds, do you want a cookie?

AOE means range, I wasn't saying that splitting the atmosphere in half was a DC feat, but rather the range of Saitama's blows can generate shockwaves around the planet (which they can). And a single cloud weighs millions of pounds btw, dispersing that many which leftover energy which actually be impressive when quantified

So yea give me a cookie, make it chocolate chip and get me a glass of milk while you're at it

LOL a third!?!?!

Actually you're right, it's more like 40%

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Based off absolutely nothing.

Except for scaling (I would say feats but TBH Garou's speed is more from scaling)

I can't see how you logically came to any conclusion here.

Ooooo, burn

I don't hate characters, I hate fanbases.

Not my problem, but I bet I'd never catch you debating for Saitama ever

From the looks of It I know the series more than you so far.

The only thing you know is how to do is wank the shit out of Naruto make absurd claims

The Devils Advocate is a deadly game to play (One of which you certainly won't win against me), I could argue part 1 Sakura over Saitama

Lol no. You wouldn't win that debate against a rock

if this is all you bring to the table but no, Guy Genuinely stomps Saitama and would solo the entire Hero Association before anyone could even register the word 'Kai'. You have no argument as to otherwise (My favorite line needed to be used at least once here).

I wonder what you've been smoking

Indeed it can't tis' why I've got a plethora of evidence that towers over your stance.

Evidence? More like the most blasphemous level of scaling I've seen in my debating career coupled with ludicrous and unfounded speculation

Why Guy dies:

1. Doesn't have the durability feats to tank punches from Saitama

2. Even if he's faster he can't dodge Saitama's attacks because of their widespread AOE/area of influence

3. Even if he's fast enough to blitz Saitama (Saitama doesn't have too many reaction feats) nothing he has in his arsenal can put him down or overload his durability. Night Moth is inferior to the Moon kick (except for speed), EE is inferior to Boros' superheated punch- as well as Beefcakes, Kabuto's, and Garou's barrage. Afternoon Tiger and Morning peacock aren't as impressive as Saitama's meteor busting or his moon jump

Guy Blitzes in 8th gate and pounds him with evening Elephant to end it, Night moth isn't needed but would also oneshot saitama.

A kick to the moon didn't even make him flinch, nothing Guy has can oneshot Saitama

Keep every grain of luck you can gather bud, I've got a bag of inspiration with every type of cereal available in the US. I'm a very dangerous man atm.

Saitama just has better feats tbh. Both of them are bricks, purely physical fighters, and Saitama's on-panel showings > Guy's.

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your turn :P @cosmic_lantern

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#85 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: Post is up. Also we've already put pretty much everything on the table, we should be wrapping soon. Does 3 pos each sounds fair? Next posts should be conclusions

Dang, this is getting good, but a little heated.

@god_vulcan:, @cosmic_lantern, If possible, could you guys tag me after each post? Want to read them as soon as they come.

you got it

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#86 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31561 posts) - - Show Bio
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#87 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio
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#88 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31561 posts) - - Show Bio

@kamishini: Eh. The premise was kinda squicky so I haven't seen it.

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#89 Edited by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: tbh I loved it, the story is kinda f###ed up but for me a 10/10.

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#90 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio
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#91 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31561 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Her boobs are kinda big for her body type. lmao

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#92 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Too hot 💘, I can't get hard every time I watch at my phone. lol

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#93 Posted by xSniperWolfiex (681 posts) - - Show Bio
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#94 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio
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#95 Posted by MyLittleFascist (31561 posts) - - Show Bio
@zetsumoto said:

@god_vulcan: Her boobs are kinda big for her body type. lmao

Bruh are you complaining lol

@xsniperwolfiex said:

@god_vulcan: is there a post limit for voters?

Huh? No

Actually idk what you mean

I like my characters to have proportionate bodyparts. kek

He's asking if voters need to have a minimum number of posts in order to vote.

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#96 Edited by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: LMAO.

Actually I'm watching Amazing Spiderman.

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#97 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: This is what I get? really? Is it too much to ask of you to at the very least attempt to match my efforts? Even your petty remarks aren't as insulting as the display you've put on here, if it's going to be like this we can open votes when I post.

I like a heated, hard-facts, debate, with plenty of room for refutation. If it's too much to ask for I'll simply find someone else in my range of capabilities.

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#98 Edited by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmic_lantern: I was saving some scans and strategies for my last postt but I'm irked by how confident you think this debate has been a stomp in your favor. I'm not as lazy as Hudy_man and I actually made several points. Tbh you're complaining about nothing but I actually want to see you counter my post

My last post was gonna be the most packed, you yourself said you were laying everything out on your opener so after 3 post each we can open (I don't want it to end at two, i haven't said everything I wanted to say)

Are you busy though? We should finish this we if you respond today

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#99 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (5668 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: If you don't have the utmost confidence in your own argument than why should the opponent take anything you say seriously? I am indeed confident but you can't use that to fault my argument no matter how much you disagree with it.

I will admit you're beginning to grow on me seeing as you're not the typical ComicWhiner who moans about someone talking to them a certain way online....

It's simply lazy debating on your end, you made one solid point in that last post the rest was "no, because I said so" basically with not even an example as to why. I'm on mobile just skimming through somethings I'll be able to counter when I get home but it's just as I said you're not giving me a solid effort which is honestly just a waste of time IMO, but if you say you got something up your sleeve I'll wait and see it.

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#100 Posted by HigherPower (12293 posts) - - Show Bio

@iamduck it starts on post 86 lol

@god_vulcan: If you don't have the utmost confidence in your own argument than why should the opponent take anything you say seriously? I am indeed confident but you can't use that to fault my argument no matter how much you disagree with it.

I will admit you're beginning to grow on me seeing as you're not the typical ComicWhiner who moans about someone talking to them a certain way online....

It's simply lazy debating on your end, you made one solid point in that last post the rest was "no, because I said so" basically with not even an example as to why. I'm on mobile just skimming through somethings I'll be able to counter when I get home but it's just as I said you're not giving me a solid effort which is honestly just a waste of time IMO, but if you say you got something up your sleeve I'll wait and see it.

Can you tell me what it was? I felt I did a good job, but I assure you I'm bringing my A-Game in post 3 because I'm still holding back on Saitama.

The only scans I've posted for Saitama from the webcomic were in my opener and concerned speed, so know there's a lot more coming. But kudos to you for making this debatable, I though this would be a walk in the park but I practically already conceded that Guy is quantifiably faster and other stuff so good job