• 77 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for streak619
#1 Edited by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

Izuku Midoriya

Repped by GearSecond659
Repped by GearSecond659

Versus

Gon Freecs

Repped by yours truly.
Repped by yours truly.

Conditions and stipulations

  • In character, but very serious.
  • Standard gear.
  • No prep time or any knowledge of the opponent for either of the combatants.
  • Midoriya is manga version.
  • Gon is chimera arc version. (pre transformation)
  • Win by death only, no BFR or incapacitation will be counted.
  • Location: Meruem's palace:
No Caption Provided

Note:

  • This is a CaV, desist from posting your opinion on the outcome of the battle or posting comments/engaging in conversations that will derail the topic of this thread.
  • If you wish to be tagged for voting, then comment as such.
  • While voting, do not vote with your opinion on the battle as a basis for the vote, but vote for who you think convinced you of their stance.
  • Votes without a valid reason/justification will not be considered, this is to avoid biased or unfounded vote.

Asides from that, we hope you enjoy the debate. :)

Avatar image for streak619
#2 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@GearSecond659: lemme know if there are any problems

Avatar image for rr79
#3 Edited by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely want to be tagged for votes on this....

Avatar image for streak619
#4 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chronicplane
#5 Edited by Chronicplane (9192 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please and good luck to the both of you, this is gonna be good :)

Avatar image for streak619
#6 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for streak619
#7 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, curious to see how strong Midoriya has become

Avatar image for chronicplane
#8 Posted by Chronicplane (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#9 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Looks fine to me. I'll have my opener by weeks end.

Avatar image for americanspeeddemon
#10 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for stormshadow_x
#11 Posted by StormShadow_X (16772 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag! ME! TAG MEEEE BABY

Avatar image for streak619
#12 Edited by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#13 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

MIDORIYA "DEKU" IZUKU

No Caption Provided

THEME

Loading Video...

BACKGROUND

Even at the age of 4, Midoriya Izuku was a huge geek. He was absolutely obsessed with the exploits of his favorite superheroes, most notably, his idol, All Might. Midoriya aspired to be just like All Might and grow up to be a powerful superhero just like the number one hero. With this in mind, one can only imagine Midoriya's disappointment when he was told he doesn't have a quirk, a genetic anomaly that allows the user to manifest superpowers. This broke young Midoriya's heart, but not his drive and determination. Midoriya would dedicate most of his time to training, working harder and harder to achieve his goal of becoming a hero, even without a quirk. One day, Midoriya's spirit was put to the test when he subconsciously attempted to save a classmate of his from a super villain, despite being vastly outmatched. These actions touched the heart of All Might, who as fate would have it, witnessed such an event take place, and would lead to All Might passing down his quirk, One For All, to Midoriya. With this newfound power boost, Midoriya was able to be accepted into the prestiged U.A. school where he would continue to move closer and closer to realizing his goal of becoming the number one hero.

ANALYTICAL MIND

Having spent most of his life quirkless, Midoriya had no other choice but to rely on his intelligence to even hold a candle to his super powered peers. He is a genius, able to read opponents moves and come up with counters mid fight, and in a short amount of time. This talent is a very effective one, and something I feel is one of the deciding factors that will sway the fight in Midoriya's favor.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

For starters, Midoriya was able to read and predict a robot's movements, and then he was able to apply said knowledge to effectively use a counterattack. Bare in mind, this was all in a very short time span as Midoriya was being chased by a robot moving at fairly high speeds. In addition, Midoriya was completely able to breakdown the flaws in Todoroki's fighting style and find different ways to exploit said flaws. Finally, it was speculated by the top U.A. hero, Mirio that Midoriya was predicting his movements, and while this was speculation, based on the evidence presented, this is absolutely plausible.

With this ability at his disposal, Midoriya would easily be able to read and analyze Gon's movements, predict his next move, and then launch a counterattack. I don't see Gon finding an answer for Midoriya's quick thinking during their fight, and as such, this talent would prove quite advantageous for Deku.

FULL COWL

Another advantage Midoriya has going into this fight is Midoriya's "Full Cowl" mode. With this, Midoriya can distribute All Might's quirk, One for All, throughout his body, vastly increasing his speed and strength.

STRENGTH

While in Full Cowl, there are different degrees to which Midoriya can release his strength. Usually, Midoriya will start off a fight using 5 percent of his strength.

No Caption Provided

Just by running, Midoriya was able to demolish the ground beneath him.

Now Gon is a formidable opponent, so it is very likely that Midoriya will have to go beyond his 5 percent attacks. This is where things get interesting as when his back is against the wall, Midoriya is able to summon all of his strength into his arms (Normally, this would result in Midoriya breaking his arm, but with his new Gamma Costume, this problem is rectified).

At full strength, Midoriya is able to do this...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

SPEED

The greatest perk of Full Cowl is the speed boost, and even with 5 percent power, Midoriya is still crazy fast.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Midoriya was able to graze Gran Torino, a superhero who is amazingly fast.

No Caption Provided

Midoriya still isn't able to use 100 percent of his power in his legs without becoming injured in the process, but I think that 5 percent should be more than enough to handle Gon.

DURABILITY

Now obviously, Midoriya is going to take a few hits from Gon. Fortunately, Midoriya has the durability and endurance to take these attacks and keep on kicking it.

Loading Video...

During his fight against Todoroki, Midoriya breaks every finger in his right hand before breaking his arm, and yet continues to use his broken fingers and arm in combat. In spite of the immense pain, Midoriya is still able to fight with a relatively cool head and even with his injuries, he managed to give Todoroki a real run for his money. While he was finally taken out by the explosion created when the two heroes clashed, bare in mind this was way before Midoriya obtained Full Cowl, and Full Cowl gives him even crazier durability (I will save this feat for my counter).

CONCLUSION

To summarize, in a fight against Gon, while it would be close, Midoriya has several advantages that can't be ignored.

  • Intelligence
  • Speed and Strength
  • Durability

HOW THE FIGHT WILL PLAY OUT

As soon as the fight starts, Midoriya will already be quick at work, assessing his surroundings. As his mentor pointed out, this is one of his strategies.

No Caption Provided

In doing so, Midoriya will have an environmental advantage right off the bat. Gon will most likely be the first one to attack Midoriya, and using Midoriya's speed, the attack will miss. Midoriya will be on the defensive, allowing Gon to try and attack him, and even allow him to land a few blows, all in a effort to get a feel for Gon's fighting style, and Midoriya's immense durability would allow him to do this without it backfiring. After observing Gon's fighting style, Midoriya will proceed to predict his next attack and use his immense strength to tag Gon. It is at this point that Midoriya will have the advantage, countering Gon's attacks and responding with his own powerful attack. Eventually, as the fight drags on, Midoriya will knock out Gon with a 100 percent smash attack and Midoriya will emerge the victor.

@streak619

Avatar image for streak619
#14 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#15 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Thanks man. Looking forward to your opener as well. I not exactly that big of a Hunter x Hunter fan, so I'm curious to see what Gon has up his sleeve.

Avatar image for thewatcherking
#16 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18461 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v,I want to see how Izuku will be represented in this CaV.

Online
Avatar image for streak619
#17 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

Gon Freecs

If you want to know someone, find out what makes them angry
If you want to know someone, find out what makes them angry

Background music

Loading Video...

Gon Freecss is the main protagonist of the anime/manga series Hunter × Hunter. He is the son of the famous Hunter, Ging Freecss and is on a quest to find his father.

Physical Stats

Strength:

Even at the beginning of the series, Gon was superhuman:

No Caption Provided

He reeled in a fish that adult men together couldn't. He would be several 100 kilograms casually.

In the hunter exams, he broke the arm of an assassin just by griping it:

No Caption Provided

This is the same assassin who was durable enough to tank a million volts of electricity without any damage. One can imaging how much force Gon used to break something that a million volts of electricity couldn't damage.

Later, in the Zoldyck arc, Gon became confirmed 4 toner:

No Caption Provided

Gon opened the first gate of testing, which weighs 4 tons, all by himself. The gates of testing are these heavy gates meant to test the people who want to enter.

There several gates stacked over each other partially and each is 2 x the weight of the previous gates totally.

Gon with the strength he attained in the Zoldyck arc, sent an adult man flying a great distance:

No Caption Provided

Using Ko, an ability where the user concentrates his life energy or aura in a single part of his body thereby increasing its DC, Gon was able to send bear sized chimera ant a massive distance away:

No Caption Provided

Even if I lowball this feat to double digit kilometres in terms of distance, due to the suspicious trajectory, inconsistency, and possible hyperbole. This is still an extremely impressive feat.

Moving on in the Greed Island arc, Gon is a large building buster- city bllck buster, through scaling.

I came to this conclusion because Gon's strikes were as hard as Razor's, which were stated to be able to kill Killua.

the video, evidence:

@16:10

@21:22

Why is this impressive? Because Killua is able to tank large buildind busters with a few scratches:

No Caption Provided

Therefore Gon, even when he isn't at full power should peak around at small city block buster.

Speed:

Just like his strength, Gon's speed was also superhuman in the early arcs.

He kept up with the creature that is visibly built for speed, in the dark of a forest:

No Caption Provided

In the heavens arena arc, he kept up with Hisoka and was fast enough to actually make multiple after images:

No Caption Provided

Kurapika was a supersonic reaction timer, where he was able to react to bullets and catch them with his chains:

No Caption Provided

Considering that Gon and Killua are at the very least on par with Kurapika in terms of physical stats.(massive lowballing considering Gon and Killua were 1 in ten million talents)One can reasonably infer that both Gon has similar and even superior reaction speeds.

Gon and Killua are equal in combat speed:

No Caption Provided

Clearly they have equal stats. What this means is, Gon is capable of everything base Killua is capable of. Base Killua is supersonic:

No Caption Provided

human fps rate : 60 (lowball)

length of the room : 10 meters approx (scaling from phinks's hieght.)

in order to be invisible while moving across the room, he would have to do it before the human eye can take a single frame, ie in 1/60 seconds

speed = d/t

= 10/ 1/60

=600

= mach(600/340)

= mach(1.7)

which is supersonic

This was before they even learnt Nen, meaning Gon can be much faster than mach1.7.

Clearly superior to Midoriya.

Durability:

This is incredibly short compared to the other stats, but only because I need only one feat to clearly define their durability:

No Caption Provided

Killua tanks a multi street wiper - building level explosion and ends up with only scratches and bruises, with the help of a technique known as Ken, where the user brings out massive amounts of aura and cloaks themselves in it.

Gon and Killua being equal; one can infer Gon has the same durability as Killua.

Hence he is a casual large building tanker.

Intelligence

Contrary to popular belief, Gon isn't an idiot in battle. His extreme idealism comes off as stupid and impractical, however he does employ strategies and is resourceful in battle. For instance:

He defeats a bat chimera by analysing their fighting style and using a spotted weakness against them, while employing basic science in his fighting in order to defeat them. This shows that he isn't a blind kid who runs in to throw a punch at his opponents.

Other instances:

-he uses his own weakness as a trap in order to defeat an opponent much superior to him

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

He was able to trick Knuckle, an experienced nen user and martial artist, with on spot quick thinking. These feats should suffice to drive the point, that despite how he appears to be, in a fight, Gon has plenty of intelligence that he puts to good use. Unlike my opponent, I will maintain that neither side has superior intelligence to a degree where you can actually call it an advantage. Intelligence is a non factor here.

Nen techniques and abilities

Nen: It is a technique that allows a living being to use and manipulate their own life energy (known as aura).

Ten: The user brings out his life energy to cloak himself as protection from external force, and other aura.

Ren: This is basically the DBZ power up thing, except here there is no power boost and it is practically of no use in a battle

Ken: A superior version of Ten.

Ko: The user concentrates all his aura in a single part of his body, to increase it's durability and DC.

In: The technique with which you make your life energy invisible to the normal eye.

Gyo: The technique with which you can see invisible life energy, by concentrating your life energy in your eyes.

En: The technique, where one expands their life energy outwards in a dome shape, one knows the position and velocity of everything inside, it is basically SONAR.

Ryu: This technique is basically when the user is constantly changing how much aura any part of his body has in order to increase it's durability and DC, for striking and parrying.

Zetsu: Allows user to hide his aura, and conceal themselves completely.

Shu: Can amp any object, that they're directly in contact with, with their life energy such that the object's durability and DC become vastly superior.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Jajajanken:

This is Gon's nen ability. Based on the game rock-paper-scissors. It has three sub-abilities:

  • Rock: Gon super focuses all his aura into his fist, to massively increase it's DC and durability.
  • Scissor: Gon extends his aura outward in the form of a blade from his fingers and is able to use it as a sword.
  • Paper: Gon releases a nen projectile from his palm.

Initial analysis and conclusion

Gon has superior strength, clocking out in the higher double digit ton range. And has casual building level - small city block level DC and durability. All which is superior to what has thus far been depicted for Midoriya.

With superior stats there isn't much to strategise or analyse from my part. Gon will fight Midoriya head on, being faster he won't allow Midoriya to any breathing space. Being stronger and more durable he will inflict far more damage than what will be inflicted on him. All of which leads to his victory. Easy peasy.

Sorry, this took so long. Hope it was worth the wait.

Your turn @gearsecond659

Avatar image for rr79
#18 Edited by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Just wanted to let you know, video's posted behind spoiler blocks disappear when they are actually posted. GIF's and images work, but not video's.

Avatar image for streak619
#19 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79 said:

@streak619: Just wanted to let you know, video's posted behind spoiler blocks disappear when they are actually posted. GIF's and images work, but not video's.

Thanks, just noticed. Will fix it.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17921 posts) - - Show Bio

Really nice Deku opener.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#21 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Excellent opener. It was definitely worth the wait. Should have my counter by next week's end at the latest.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#22 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Really nice Deku opener.

Thank you man. It's my first time on comic vine, and so far, I've been taken aback by how supportive the community is. Even during debates, most viners are still respectful of one another, and being in such a kind community real brings a smile to my face (sorry for getting all sentimental lol).

Thanks for the compliment.

Avatar image for streak619
#23 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#24 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttal: 100 Percent Full Counter!!!

"When the enemy is certain of their victory, that will be our chance..."

THEME

Loading Video...

COUNTER #1: STRENGTH AND DURABILITY

To start off, I just want to say that Gon is very strong. Breaking someone's arm just by gripping it is very impressive, and Gon pushing a 4 ton gate is mind boggling. However, I don't think this compares to Midoriya's FULL strength. As I said before, Midoriya will most likely need to use 100 percent of his strength in order to beat Gon, and when Midoriya unleashes such power, it will be devastating. Before I get into his feats, I just want to say that at this point, Midoriya is in fact capable of using at least 2 100 percent smashes, as exemplified with his fight against the villain, Muscular (he can likely do more as this was prior to wearing his gamma costume).

To be as efficient as possible, let me emphasize the sheer power Midoriya displayed in the feat I mentioned previously before I bring in new feats.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Midoriya damaged a building without having to physically punch it. The shockwave created from Midoriya punching upward was powerful enough to destroy a good chunk of the building, which is power I don't think Gon has displayed yet.

Moving on, Midoriya said himself that a 100 percent punch from him equates to a punch from All Might.

No Caption Provided

With this in mind, All Might was capable of sending his opponent flying with just one punch, similar to Gon's aforementioned strength feats. The only difference being that All Might's opponent, Nomu, possessed a quirk that allowed him to absorb shock. This allowed him to tank All Might's previous attacks. However, All Might was so strong that he was able to completely overwhelm Nomu's quirk and send him flying.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Because it was explicitly said by Midoriya that he possess the strength of All Might, it is appropriate for me to power scale and assume that Midoriya is capable of doing the same feat with Gon, and Gon doesn't have the durability to tank such a blow.

Yes, Gon was able to match Killua in pure combat speed, and while I don't exactly think it's accurate to conclude that Gon can reach the same speeds as Killua (this will be addressed later in my post), it is even more inaccurate to conclude that Gon has the same durability. Combat speed doesn't equate to durability, so just because Gon matched Killua in combat doesn't mean that they have the same stats. And if Gon doesn't have any other durability feats to back it up, that further proves that Gon isn't capable of Killua's level of durability. That's just too much of an overgeneralization to me. That's like saying Superman can match the Flash in combat speed, and therefore, Flash has the same level of durability as Superman. It just doesn't add up.

With the power of All Might, I am of the belief that Midoriya far exceeds Gon when it comes to strength. In terms of durability, Midoriya also holds the advantage, taking a beating from Muscular.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

In the panels above, Midoriya stayed conscious after being punched so hard into the ground that it creates a crater beneath them.

Prior to this, Midoriya was able to tank attacks from Muscular that can be assumed to have possessed the same kind of power as the attack above as Muscular had the intent to kill Midoriya.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

As for Gon having a city block busting attack, there is just too little information to go off of. You need to provide a little more evidence. Who is Razor? How do you know Razor and Gon are on the same level? I'm also going to need a scan that explicitly states Razor is capable of killing Killua with an attack and a brief description of said attack. But as it stands right now, there's just too little to go off of to address this properly.

In this fight, Gon is very much a glass canon. His durability doesn't have any notable showings except for power scaling, which I already explained isn't really credible. Moreover, Midoriya has the durability to tank any and all of Gon's attacks as he has taken blows from opponents with comparable strength. These two things combine to make Midoriya superior when it comes to physical strength and endurance.

COUNTER #2: SPEED

When it comes to speed, the difference between Gon and Midoriya is much slimmer than strength and durability. However, there are a few things that give Midoriya the advantage.

First off, I think you're underestimating Gran Torino's speed.

Loading Video...

In the video, Midoriya stated that he couldn't track Gran Torino (1:01-1:03).

According to the Death Battle: Zoro vs Erza (13:51-13:57), the most well trained human eye can spot and recognize an image in up to 1/222th of a second. Assuming that Midoriya possess such an eye, Gran Torino must be moving more than 1/222th of a second in order for Midoriya to not perceive his movements. Assuming that Gran Torino is moving at 1/223th of a second, and converting that to milliseconds, that equates to Gran Torino moving at a MINIMUM of roughly 4.5 milliseconds.

*Note: I consider Death Battle to be pretty accurate when it comes to their calculations, and even if you don't trust ScrewAttack, remember that they said the information about human eye perception came from the U.S. Air Force, which is undeniably credible*

Now I know what you're thinking: "Why does any of this matter?" Well if you recall from my previous post, I cited Midoriya in 5 percent Full Cowl grazing Gran Torino as a speed feat, and considering that Gran Torino is moving 4.5 milliseconds, this is impressive. However, this was only a graze, so that doesn't really mean anything in terms of speed right? Well this was when Midoriya was using 5 percent Full Cowl, but Midoriya also has the ability to amplify his abilities to an even further extent.

He can go 20 PERCENT FULL COWL!!!!

No Caption Provided

While 20 percent Full Cowl is a fairly recent new form and doesn't really have much showings, through power scaling, it can easily be concluded that 20 percent Full Cowl is both strong and faster than 5 percent Full Cowl. Thus, in 20 percent Full Cowl, Midoriya would undoubtedly be capable of doing more than just grazing Gran Torino with such a boost in speed, and again, Gran Torino moves at a minimum of 4.5 milliseconds. That's crazy fast!!!

Now, it was hypothesised that Gon could move as fast as Killua due to Gon matching Killua in combat speed. However, that's not necessarily the case.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I don't think Killua jetting around a room can be considered combat speed as its application is not for battle, but more so travel, moving from one location to another in an effort to confuse the opponent. So right off the bat, I've established that moving around a room really fast and combat speed is like comparing apples to oranges, but if you need further proof, consider this. In the scan shown above, Gon and Killua are able to trade punches at equal speeds. However, how fast one can throw a punch doesn't equate to how fast one can move. Gary Russell Jr. (a boxer for the uninitiated) could punch really fast, but that doesn't make him on the same speed as Usain Bolt. So it is kind of a stretch to conclude that Gon can move as fast as Killua just because they have the same combat speed because you have to take into account there are different types of speed such as travel speed, and as stated previously, travel speed doesn't equate to combat speed. So while Gon can punch as fast as Killua, that doesn't mean he'll be able to move as fast as Killua.

COUNTER #3: INTELLIGENCE

For my last counter, I want to address Midoriya's intelligence. While Gon tricking his opponent is impressive, Midoriya has consistently come up with more complex and in depth strategies on the fly, and unlike Gon, Midoriya is able to identify his opponents weaknesses on the fly as well.

Midoriya was able to come up with a strategy to escape from his opponents in a way that would best make use of his classmates' quirks. He had to do this under pressure as the villains were attacking the boat they were on. This also gives Midoriya an environmental advantage over Gon because he is adept at using his surroundings to his advantage, as exemplified below.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

However, the most relevant feat for Midoriya was when he was able to find and exploit Todoroki's weakness during the sports festival (Say it with my kids) on the fly.

No Caption Provided

Gon maybe smart, but Midoriya is just on a whole different level with his analytical thinking, and while Gon can trick his opponents, Midoriya can read his opponents and come up with countermeasure essentially on the fly.

CONCLUSION

Gon is a formidable opponent, but Midoriya just has superior stats. His strength is at the level of All Might, a being capable of sending his opponents flying miles away. His speed is so overwhelming that it can graze someone who moves at 4.5 milliseconds. His mind is so precise that he can identify an opponents weaknesses and conceive countermeasure on the fly.

To sum up

  • Midoriya holds the strength advantage as his power is equal to that of All Might's
  • All Might is capable of sending Nomu flying miles away, a being who can absorb shock
  • Gon doesn't have the durability to tank a hit from Midoriya
  • Just because Gon is equal to Killua in combat speed doesn't mean they're equal in durability
  • Midoriya is more than capable of hitting Gran Torino, who can move faster than 4.5 miliseconds
  • Gon doesn't have the same speed as he is not on Killua's level from the scans shown to me
  • Midoriya is way smarter than Gon and is more effective at using his mind, from using his environment to his advantage to finding weaknesses in his opponents

@streak619

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#25 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: My post got out way early than expected. Consider this my Christmas present, lol.

Happy holidays and I look forward to your next post.

Avatar image for streak619
#26 Edited by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: nice counter, will get started.

edit: merry christmas to you too.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#27 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Thanks

BTW there's an error with the comicvine post, so a sentence from my opener got deleted.

"As for Gon having a city block busting attack, there is just too little information to go off of. You need to provide a little more evidence. Who is Razor? How do you know Razor and Gon are on the same level? I'm also going to need a scan that explicitly states Razor is capable of killing Killua with an attack and a brief description of said attack. But as it stands right now, there's just too little to go off of to address this properly."

I'll continue to try and get it back in there, but it's not working at the moment. Sorry for the inconvenience and I hope this suffices as I want you to counter my points without any stone unturned.

Avatar image for streak619
#28 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Thanks

BTW there's an error with the comicvine post, so a sentence from my opener got deleted.

"As for Gon having a city block busting attack, there is just too little information to go off of. You need to provide a little more evidence. Who is Razor? How do you know Razor and Gon are on the same level? I'm also going to need a scan that explicitly states Razor is capable of killing Killua with an attack and a brief description of said attack. But as it stands right now, there's just too little to go off of to address this properly."

I'll continue to try and get it back in there, but it's not working at the moment. Sorry for the inconvenience and I hope this suffices as I want you to counter my points without any stone unturned.

off course, no problem, I'll be sure to address this in my counter

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#29 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: I was successfully able to add the sentence into my post, so this should make things more convenient for you.

Avatar image for higherpower
#30 Posted by HigherPower (12392 posts) - - Show Bio

It's always refreshing to see relatively new users with excellent formatting in debates.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#31 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

It's always refreshing to see relatively new users with excellent formatting in debates.

Thanks man. You're kindness is very much appreciated.

Avatar image for streak619
#32 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters and rebuttals

I never knew, how frustrating weakness was!
I never knew, how frustrating weakness was!

Physicality

Strength:

To be as efficient as possible, let me emphasize the sheer power Midoriya displayed in the feat I mentioned previously before I bring in new feats.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Midoriya damaged a building without having to physically punch it. The shockwave created from Midoriya punching upward was powerful enough to destroy a good chunk of the building, which is power I don't think Gon has displayed yet.

The feat is rather unclear. The explosion was caused by who? Or rather, who played a bigger role in the destruction of the building? Midoriya or Bakugou? And how do you know that?

Moving on, Midoriya said himself that a 100 percent punch from him equates to a punch from All Might.

With this in mind, All Might was capable of sending his opponent flying with just one punch, similar to Gon's aforementioned strength feats. The only difference being that All Might's opponent, Nomu, possessed a quirk that allowed him to absorb shock. This allowed him to tank All Might's previous attacks. However, All Might was so strong that he was able to completely overwhelm Nomu's quirk and send him flying.

Yeah, that was a casual strike from a casual and inferor version of Gon who didn't even use nen. I do not see how you possess a strength advantage when the weakest of Gon's feats are comparable to your stronger ones.

Because it was explicitly said by Midoriya that he possess the strength of All Might, it is appropriate for me to power scale and assume that Midoriya is capable of doing the same feat with Gon, and Gon doesn't have the durability to tank such a blow.

False, Gon is capable of tanking a city block buster with just a few scratches. Based on everything depicted so far, other than Midoriya's full power, Gon will pretty much tank everything Midoriya has to offer.

As for Gon having a city block busting attack, there is just too little information to go off of. You need to provide a little more evidence. Who is Razor? How do you know Razor and Gon are on the same level? I'm also going to need a scan that explicitly states Razor is capable of killing Killua with an attack and a brief description of said attack. But as it stands right now, there's just too little to go off of to address this properly.

I'm glad you asked, this is the video

@16:10: Gon states that Razors volleys would have killed Killua.

@21:22: Gon's volleys are confirmed to be as strong as Razor's.

Therefore an inferior Gon can kill Killua with a powered Jajanken. This feat in all honesty should be city block +.

Which would shred Midoriya.

Durability:

With the power of All Might, I am of the belief that Midoriya far exceeds Gon when it comes to strength. In terms of durability, Midoriya also holds the advantage, taking a beating from Muscular.

In the panels above, Midoriya stayed conscious after being punched so hard into the ground that it creates a crater beneath them.

Which isn't impressive even in the least. Your best feat is Midoriya not getting KOed by a wall level attack. Which is just laughable, Gon may not even need to use Jajanken to deal severe damage to Midoriya, because even an inferior form of Gon can deal casual wall level attacks:

No Caption Provided

So Midoriya remaiing concious after a wall level attacks just further drives the fact that Midoriya isn't going to tank a single Jajanken. Because, visibly, even an inferior base form Gon can deal some severe damage.

Speed

According to the Death Battle: Zoro vs Erza(13:51-13:57), the most well trained human eye can spot and recognize an image in up to 1/222th of a second. Assuming that Midoriya possess such an eye, Gran Torino must be moving more than 1/222th of a second in order for Midoriya to not perceive his movements. Assuming that Gran Torino is moving at 1/223th of a second, and converting that to milliseconds, that equates to Gran Torino moving at a MINIMUM of roughly 4.5 milliseconds.

*Note: I consider Death Battle to be pretty accurate when it comes to their calculations, and even if you don't trust ScrewAttack, remember that they said the information about human eye perception came from the U.S. Air Force, which is undeniably credible*

This is completely fallacious. You're taking the data in a completely different context. That is the speed at which the human mind recognises a picture, ie: the time taken by the human brain to scour through it's memory to find stored info regarding that picture. What you're trying to pass it off as is reaction timewhich is the time taken by the human brain to react to external stimuli. If Midoriya couldn't track Torino, it simply means Torino was moving faster than what Midoriya was capable of reacting to which is just barely FTE.

Recognition time and reaction time are very different. You're supposed to use reaction time which, for humans, is 0.25 seconds and not 0.0045 seconds. What Gran Torino did was nothing impressive at all, Killua and Gon have moved FTE and created many after images in many different occassions that it would be redundant.

Yes, Gon was able to match Killua in pure combat speed, and while I don't exactly think it's accurate to conclude that Gon can reach the same speeds as Killua (this will be addressed later in my post), it is even more inaccurate to conclude that Gon has the same durability. Combat speed doesn't equate to durability, so just because Gon matched Killua in combat doesn't mean that they have the same stats. And if Gon doesn't have any other durability feats to back it up, that further proves that Gon isn't capable of Killua's level of durability. That's just too much of an overgeneralization to me. That's like saying Superman can match the Flash in combat speed, and therefore, Flash has the same level of durability as Superman. It just doesn't add up.

Fair enough, however that was just a depiction to show that Gon can move at supersonic speeds. Not to mention bouncing around a room at supersonic speeds can be used in combat and isn't exclusively travel speed, Gran Torino is living proof of that. Not to mention, if his leg muscles can propel something much heavier than his legs at supersonic speeds, surely the speed of his kicks can't be inferior, being much lighter than half of his total weight. Travel speed and combat speed are different only because of technique, skill and experience. Usain Bolt can't kick like Bruce Lee because of precisely those reasons, it isn't like Bruce Lee's thigh muscles are 3 or 4 times thicker than that of Usain Bolt's or vice versa. They simply trained to and are skilled in one type of motion over the other, if they had the same skill and experience as the other, their combat speed would equal their travel speed.

Since this isn't a factor here (Killua doesn't spend days practising bouncing around a wall), I can safely assume that his muscles can propel his legs faster than sound, if they can propel his body faster than sound with pure muscle power and not any other factor. Thus their overall combat speed should be a minimum of low supersonic.

Intelligence

This also gives Midoriya an environmental advantage over Gon because he is adept at using his surroundings to his advantage, as exemplified below.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

However, the most relevant feat for Midoriya was when he was able to find and exploit Todoroki's weakness during the sports festival (Say it with my kids) on the fly.

Again, Gon has also exploited weakness to applaudable degree. Used his own weaknesses as a trap on two occassions, ans used his opponents strengths and advantages to his own disadcantage while using their disadvantage like he owned it. You can't honestly be saying that Midoriya is still massively more intelligent than Gon. He won a battle completely stacked against him tgrough pure wit, despite having a disadvantage in every area.

Gon maybe smart, but Midoriya is just on a whole different level with his analytical thinking, and while Gon can trick his opponents, Midoriya can read his opponents and come up with countermeasure essentially on the fly.

And Gon can do pretty much all of these and has more impressive feats. Tricking an experienced nen user and using their weakness to your advantage is much more impressive than tricking Todoroki, using the properties of sound regularly in your battle, yet on the fly, while being literally blind to fight two opponents that have impeccable and flawless synergy, and being inferior in several stats and having a surrounding disadvantage, to defeat them using pure wits is far more impressive than anything that you have depicted. The only thing Midoriya has is consistency which can't suddenly prove that he will ein in a pure intellligence battle. Whicb is why I claim that intelligence will be a non factor.

Analysis and conclusion

There are several reasons why Gon wins:

  • Superior strength
  • Superior speed
  • Superior durability
  • Superior versatility

Gon is irrefutably stronger; Midoriya peaks out at large building level. Whereas a seriously inferior Gon was at city block+. With this advantage alone, one can argue that Gon would ein in an encounter b/w them.

Gon is fast enough to blitz Midoriya. Since Midoriya ian't supersonic or even close, Gon possesses the speed to avoid all the blows Midoriya can offer while landing blows that Midoriya cannot avoid. I will talk about En, something Gon can use to a halting degree. With thks technique Gon was able to keep up with Knuckle, who was able to move FTE to him, En allows him to keep track of the position and velocity of everything inside, so regardless from which direction at whatever speed, Gon will know it the moment Midoriya enters his En. He was able to keep up to much faster opponents, so Midoriya being much faster is outta the question

Gon is also massively more durable. Such that Midoriyas durability would fall below even the weakest nen users in HxH. Zushi with a weak version of Ten (refer to opener) was able to withstand the wall busting attacks from Killua. Which essentially means that even Zushi is likely more durable because even he didn't take any damage from wall level + attacks from Killua. Gon is massively superior to both Zushi and Midoriya in terms of durability. Even building level will go as far as scratching him, perhaps a small bruise.

Not to mention, with Ko(refer to opener), Gon can even further amp his durability by many fold. At this point, the difference is almost spite. Even if Midoriya pushes one for all beyong it's normal limit and even if that proves too much for Gon's normal durability (really big if there), he need only use Ko and his durability at his recieving point would become casual city block +. Proven by the fact that his habds weren't even scratched by Razor's city blick level strikes when he used Ko to block it. Get it already, Midoriya ain't hurting Gon any time soon.

Now, when it comes to versatility, I would like to shed light on a few points that really drive the nail into thw coffin, firstly:

Midoriya can't see nen, why? because of In. In is a technique where a nen user makes his nen invisible to the invisible eye. In order to see nen and aura, one must use Gyo, a technique where one focuses aura into one's eyes. Something Midoriya can't do. And since Midoriya can't use Gyo, he won't be able to see nen at all.

Which brings me to Gon's nen ability:

Jajajanken:

This is Gon's nen ability. Based on the game rock-paper-scissors. It has three sub-abilities:

  • Rock: Gon super focuses all his aura into his fist, to massively increase it's DC and durability.
  • Scissor: Gon extends his aura outward in the form of a blade from his fingers and is able to use it as a sword.
  • Paper: Gon releases a nen projectile from his palm.

He won't be able to differentiate a normal punch from Rock punch. Since to his eyes, they will appear to be the same. He definitely won't be able to see Scissor, the blade of scissor will be completely undetectable and invisible to him. When Gon swings it at him, he won't dodge, all he will se is gon swinging his arm before he gets sliced in half.

He will not be able to see the projectiles of Paper. All he will see is Gon asking for a high five, and momentsater he takes critical damage from a nen projectile.

Since Gon will be aware that Midoriya doesn't and can't use nen, there is no doubt that he will use such a hax ability to his advantage. That is the deal sealer to my strategy; In.

Again, sorry for the wait. Hope you like it, @gearsecond659.

Avatar image for og_hoah
#33 Posted by og_hoah (87 posts) - - Show Bio

Deku wins

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#34 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17921 posts) - - Show Bio

@og_hoah: This is a CaV. No comments allowed.

Avatar image for og_hoah
#35 Posted by og_hoah (87 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17921 posts) - - Show Bio

@og_hoah: It means Challenge a Viner. It is basically a private formatted debate between two or more users who agree to debate for certain characters. You can vote for who won the debate when it finishes.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#37 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Nice counter. Should have my closer real soon.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15
#38 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

CLOSER

"The deeper the darkness, the more dazzling the light shines..."

COUNTER #1: STRENGTH AND DURABILITY

The feat is rather unclear. The explosion was caused by who? Or rather, who played a bigger role in the destruction of the building? Midoriya or Bakugou? And how do you know that?

The damage to the building was definitely caused by Midoriya. While Bakugou was trying to harm Midoriya, Midoriya was trying to damage the building to help his fellow teammate. I know this because Midoriya is the one who is hurt by Bakugou's attack while Bakugou receives no damages because Midoriya's attack wasn't aimed at him. Perhaps the anime clip will make things clearer.

Loading Video...

5:44-5:50: The shockwave can be seen emanating from Midoriya's punch. Bakugou's attack aimed at Midoriya can also be seen, creating a very small explosion with no other external damages other than to Midoriya. Thus it can't be argued that the building busting feat is Bakugou's doing.

This feat is nothing like Gon has ever displayed in terms of raw strength, and remember the damage to the building was caused by the SHOCKWAVE of Midoriya's punch, not the punch itself.

Yeah, that was a casual strike from a casual and inferior version of Gon who didn't even use nen. I do not see how you possess a strength advantage when the weakest of Gon's feats are comparable to your stronger ones.

At face value, you could compare that feat to All Might's, but when you look into it even deeper, All Might's feat is on a whole different level. Nomu had shock absorption, so from the getco, All Might was already at a disadvantage when he did his feat. I don't think Gon's opponent had the same kind of resistance to blunt force attacks, so claiming that Gon's feat is comparable to All Might's is an overgeneralization when you consider that All Might's enemy was practically immune to blunt force attacks.

False, Gon is capable of tanking a city block buster with just a few scratches. Based on everything depicted so far, other than Midoriya's full power, Gon will pretty much tank everything Midoriya has to offer.

You haven't really shown me anything to prove this fact. The only thing you've shown to me is power scaling to Killua, which I've already established doesn't make any sense because the fight between Killua and Gon doesn't prove they are the same in terms of pure durability. Just because Killua has city block buster durability doesn't mean Gon automatically has that level of durability. And make no mistake, if Gon doesn't have city block buster durability, he won't survive against Midoriya. Midoriya has All Might's power, and All Might did this...

No Caption Provided

Therefore an inferior Gon can kill Killua with a powered Jajanken. This feat in all honesty should be city block +.

Which would shred Midoriya.

Touche. So Gon is capable of city block busting attacks, which you conclude would kill Midoriya. However, that's not necessarily true. Midoriya can access the full power of All Might. All Might was able to counter a city busting attack with his own attack.

No Caption Provided

Midoriya would undoubtedly be able to do the same with his Detroit Smash.

Your best feat is Midoriya not getting KOed by a wall level attack. Which is just laughable, Gon may not even need to use Jajanken to deal severe damage to Midoriya, because even an inferior form of Gon can deal casual wall level attacks:

Midoriya would definitely be able to tank Gon's wall level attacks. I mean Midoriya tanked one of Bakugou's most powerful attacks (the second image is proof he wasn't KOed).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Midoriya's durability may be low, but his pain tolerance is incredibly high, as exemplified in my previous post. He can power through a lot of pain, whether that be having his fingers and arms literally explode to taking a beating from a guy who can tank a punch from All Might. Sure, durability may be one of Midoriya's weaknesses, but that's precisely why he predicts his opponents attacks. So he can be in a position where he counterattacks without taking too much damage. It's for this reason that I don't see durability as a factor because Midoriya usually fights in a manner where he dodges or counters his opponent using his intellect, and because of this, I don't see him being tagged a lot by Gon, and therefore, durability shouldn't be too much of a factor.

So Midoriya remaiing concious after a wall level attacks just further drives the fact that Midoriya isn't going to tank a single Jajanken. Because, visibly, even an inferior base form Gon can deal some severe damage.

Jajanken takes a few moments to charge, leaving plenty of time for Midoriya to counter Gon with his Detroit Smash. Furthermore, as explained above, Midoriya's intellect will ensure that he isn't Gon's punching bag (I will go into this aspect later in my post). Finally, as I said previously, the same thing could be said for Gon. There's nothing to disprove that Midoriya could K.O. Gon with a 5 percent Smash because you haven't given me sufficient Gon durability feats other than power scaling, which I already said doesn't work in the context of which you are using it in.

COUNTER #2: SPEED

This is completely fallacious. You're taking the data in a completely different context. That is the speed at which the human mind recognises a picture, ie: the time taken by the human brain to scour through it's memory to find stored info regarding that picture. What you're trying to pass it off as is reaction timewhich is the time taken by the human brain to react to external stimuli. If Midoriya couldn't track Torino, it simply means Torino was moving faster than what Midoriya was capable of reacting to which is just barely FTE.

Not necessarily. If Midoriya can't track Gran Torino, that easily equates to human brain scouring "through it's memory ro find stored info regarding that picture." That's literally what is being exemplified by Midoriya not being able to track Gran Torino, so I don't think I was confusing that with reaction time.

Recognition time and reaction time are very different. You're supposed to use reaction time which, for humans, is 0.25 seconds and not 0.0045 seconds. What Gran Torino did was nothing impressive at all, Killua and Gon have moved FTE and created many after images in many different occassions that it would be redundant.

I think you are misunderstanding something. I'm looking purely at recognition time, which is in fact 0.0045 seconds for humans. I don't understand how Midoriya not being able to track Gran Torino can be classified as reaction time because in theory, you have to recognize something before you react to it, and Midoriya couldn't even do the former. As such, I think you're underselling Gran Torino's true speed, as moving so fast that the human eye can't even recognize you is immensely fast. Now ultimately, Midoriya was able to recognize Gran Torino, but I would argue that was due to his mastery of Full Cowl.

From there, Midoriya was able to attack, or react to Gran Torino, which is a feat when it comes to Midoriya's reaction time. Overall, I'm saying that Midoriya reacting to someone who is fast enough to not be recognized by the human eye is impressive, but I think you misunderstood my last post and cross contaminated the two.

Fair enough, however that was just a depiction to show that Gon can move at supersonic speeds.

Before I deconstruct what you said, I just want to emphasize that you concede that Gon doesn't have the same amount of durability as Killua.

Not to mention bouncing around a room at supersonic speeds can be used in combat and isn't exclusively travel speed, Gran Torino is living proof of that. Not to mention, if his leg muscles can propel something much heavier than his legs at supersonic speeds, surely the speed of his kicks can't be inferior, being much lighter than half of his total weight.

If that were true, Gran Torino wouldn't even need the momentum of bouncing around the room to land a solid kick on Midoriya, but he does. Propulsion doesn't equate to speed of kicks, or else Gran Torino wouldn't even need his quirk in combat. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Travel speed and combat speed are different only because of technique, skill and experience. Usain Bolt can't kick like Bruce Lee because of precisely those reasons, it isn't like Bruce Lee's thigh muscles are 3 or 4 times thicker than that of Usain Bolt's or vice versa. They simply trained to and are skilled in one type of motion over the other, if they had the same skill and experience as the other, their combat speed would equal their travel speed.

That's not true at all. Travel speed and combat speed are different, PERIOD. Are you saying that Silver Surfer, a superhero notable for his crazy travel speed, could punch as hard as Superman with 'technique and skill.' Are you saying that Superman can travel as fast as Silver Surfer with 'technique and skill.' Travel speed and combat speed are completely different from each other, and just because they have applications in combat doesn't mean it equates to combat speed. For example, if I were driving a racecar and got from point A to point B in around 5 minutes, that'd be travel speed. However, let's say I hit run an enemy over on my way there. It had a combat application, sure, but you can't call it combat speed.

Since this isn't a factor here (Killua doesn't spend days practising bouncing around a wall), I can safely assume that his muscles can propel his legs faster than sound, if they can propel his body faster than sound with pure muscle power and not any other factor. Thus their overall combat speed should be a minimum of low supersonic.

Yes I agree with you. KILLUA is low supersonic. Just because Gon traded punches with Killua doesn't make him low supersonic. To use another Superman analogy, let's say Batman and Superman fight. Batman is able to trade punches with Superman. That doesn't mean Batman can move anywhere as fast as Superman, it just means he was able to trade punches with Superman. This isn't even hypothetical, Batman has traded blows with Superman in the comics, but he still is nowhere near as fast as Superman.

INTELLIGENCE

Again, Gon has also exploited weakness to applaudable degree. Used his own weaknesses as a trap on two occassions, ans used his opponents strengths and advantages to his own disadcantage while using their disadvantage like he owned it. You can't honestly be saying that Midoriya is still massively more intelligent than Gon. He won a battle completely stacked against him through pure wit, despite having a disadvantage in every area.

And Gon can do pretty much all of these and has more impressive feats. Tricking an experienced nen user and using their weakness to your advantage is much more impressive than tricking Todoroki, using the properties of sound regularly in your battle, yet on the fly, while being literally blind to fight two opponents that have impeccable and flawless synergy, and being inferior in several stats and having a surrounding disadvantage, to defeat them using pure wits is far more impressive than anything that you have depicted. The only thing Midoriya has is consistency which can't suddenly prove that he will ein in a pure intellligence battle. Whicb is why I claim that intelligence will be a non factor.

Gon's intelligence is impressive, but Gon's style of planning is way too reactive. The problem with setting traps is that they'll fail if the opponent doesn't walk on them. In a battle setting, I prefer Midoriya's style of taking the offensive after reading his opponents attacks and preparing countermeasure against them to Gon who simply waits and hopes for his opponents to fall for a trap he set or to take the bait. To put it simply, Gon's strategies are a result of his fishing experience, waiting for his opponents to be lured in by the bait he gives them, but Midoriya is too smart to simply fall for such bait. However, on the other hand, Gon's fighting style is very very simple. It was said by Killua multiple times that Gon tends to rush into situations without thinking, and such impulsiveness will leave Gon vulnerable to Midoriya's strategic planning. Midoriya is way more proactive in his approach to combat, predicting moves before they're even executed, and in a battle setting, this fighting style was been way more effective. And Todoroki is no dumbass either as he immediately realized what Midoriya was planning, however, most of Gon's opponents are fairly simple minded so he's never really had to fight anyone who has a higher level of intelligence.

FINAL VERDICT

To conclude, Midoriya is simply too strong for Gon to handle, having access to all of All Might's power, and from what I've seen, Gon has nowhere near the durability to tank such an attack. Midoriya is also significantly faster than Gon, tagging a being who can move at 4.5 milliseconds. Lastly, Midoriya's approach to battle inherently gives him an advantage against Gon as his proactive thinking would serve as the perfect counter against Gon's more reactive planning.

@streak619

Avatar image for streak619
#39 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for streak619
#41 Edited by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

Finisher

I don't care anymore...I'll use... everything I have...
I don't care anymore...I'll use... everything I have...

Counter: physicality

Strength:

5:44-5:50: The shockwave can be seen emanating from Midoriya's punch. Bakugou's attack aimed at Midoriya can also be seen, creating a very small explosion with no other external damages other than to Midoriya. Thus it can't be argued that the building busting feat is Bakugou's doing.

Ok, that is NOT a building busting feat. That is a multi wall busting feat and that is all.

This feat is nothing like Gon has ever displayed in terms of raw strength, and remember the damage to the building was caused by the SHOCKWAVE of Midoriya's punch, not the punch itself.

That feat is unquantifiable, not to mention, you haven't drawn a single conclusion from it.

At face value, you could compare that feat to All Might's, but when you look into it even deeper, All Might's feat is on a whole different level. Nomu had shock absorption, so from the getco, All Might was already at a disadvantage when he did his feat. I don't think Gon's opponent had the same kind of resistance to blunt force attacks, so claiming that Gon's feat is comparable to All Might's is an overgeneralization when you consider that All Might's enemy was practically immune to blunt force attacks.

I'm not overgeneralising anything, as you literally said in the same sentence I'm comparing feats and not over all stats . Yes, Gon's opponent did not have shock absorbing capability(but he was fat af), but that was simply a comparison to add testimony to my point.

Midoriya has All Might's power, and All Might did this...

Now, you're getting carried away with your scaling to All Might. Your only evidence to justify this scaling is because ONE punch of Midoriya was stated to be equal in power to another punch from All Might, their stats are equal which is fallacious. Unless you explicitly provide evidence that All Might and Midoriya used the same fraction of their power in the punches that were stated to be equal, you can't validly assert that the entirety of their stats are equal either. How do you know that Midoriya didn't use 95% of his total power whereas All Might didn't use anything more than 25 percent of his total power? You don't.

Touche. So Gon is capable of city block busting attacks, which you conclude would kill Midoriya. However, that's not necessarily true. Midoriya can access the full power of All Might. All Might was able to counter a city busting attackwith his own attack.

Midoriya would undoubtedly be able to do the same with his Detroit Smash.

No he wouldn't, you have to realise that saying 'undoubtedly' doesn't make your point ancymore credible. Fact of the matter is you haven't provided a shred of actual evidence that Midoriya can actually reach that level. And even then he likely cannot, becauae he consistently cannot and has not been able to depict anywhere near that kinda power.

Durability:

Midoriya would definitely be able to tank Gon's wall level attacks. I mean Midoriya tanked one of Bakugou's most powerful attacks (the second image is proof he wasn't KOed).

Except there is no evidence that it is wall level. Whereas there is evidence that he will be KO'ed with wall level attacks, evidence being in the video clip you yourself provided.

Midoriya's durability may be low, but his pain tolerance is incredibly high, as exemplified in my previous post. He can power through a lot of pain, whether that be having his fingers and arms literally explode to taking a beating from a guy who can tank a punch from All Might. Sure, durability may be one of Midoriya's weaknesses, but that's precisely why he predicts his opponents attacks. So he can be in a position where he counterattacks without taking too much damage. It's for this reason that I don't see durability as a factor because Midoriya usually fights in a manner where he dodges or counters his opponent using his intellect, and because of this, I don't see him being tagged a lot by Gon, and therefore, durability shouldn't be too much of a factor.

Pain tolerance will be useless in this fight because he will be cometwly incapacitated by a single Jajanken. If wall level guy is hit by a focused city block+ buster. He will either die or take severe critical damage, both of which will end the fight completely.

Regarding prediction, Midoriya cannot use it as adeptly against people who he isn't very familiar. Evidence being in the clip you provided.

Midoriya says: "If it's Kachan, he will do.."

And stuff like: "Just how long do you think I've known you?"

All of which implies that at the very least he can't and won't predict Gon's movements any better than Gon does his opponent.

Jajanken takes a few moments to charge, leaving plenty of time for Midoriya to counter Gon with his Detroit Smash.

Not really, other than WIS, it doesn't take time at all, gon punched a chimera ant to another country before it could react.

which implies Jajanken can and will be fast in this fight.

And Midoriya CANNOT withstand being socked to ANOTHER COUNTRY.

Furthermore, as explained above, Midoriya's intellect will ensure that he isn't Gon's punching bag (I will go into this aspect later in my post). Finally, as I said previously, the same thing could be said for Gon. There's nothing to disprove that Midoriya could K.O. Gon with a 5 percent Smash because you haven't given me sufficient Gon durability feats other than power scaling, which I already said doesn't work in the context of which you are using it in.

Gon has the same durability as Killua because their Ryus were equal, If their Ryu's were equal, it means equal portions of their life energy reserves were equal as well, since their durability depends on Ken or the life energy essentially, which being equal means their durability is equal as well. Heck I'll just show you some scans to make this easier:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As you can see 80 percent of their Kos are equal. Which means their nen DC and durability have to be equal. Since 80% of their concentrated nens for amping durability are equal.

Speed:

Not necessarily. If Midoriya can't track Gran Torino, that easily equates to human brain scouring "through it's memory ro find stored info regarding that picture."

Wrong, I can't believe you just said that. He wasn't able to track Torino because he was moving tok fast for his reactions. He couldn't react in time to Gran Torino, hence he wasn't able to track him. Recognition is REMEMBERING, it has NOTHING to do with REACTING.

That's literally what is being exemplified by Midoriya not being able to track Gran Torino, so I don't think I was confusing that with reaction time.

You are. I'll even break it down step by step:

Fact: Midoriya couldn't track Torino.

Implication: Gran Torino moved too fast for Midoriya's eye ball movements and frame rate.

Implication: Midoriya couldn't process his rate of position fast enough

Implication: Gran Torino was too fast for Midoriya to process

Implication: Gran Torino was too fast for Midoriya to react.

Remembering something has no bearing to reacting to an external stimuli(in this case the stimuli is Gran Torino)

I think you are misunderstanding something. I'm looking purely at recognition time, which is in fact 0.0045 seconds for humans. I don't understand how Midoriya not being able to track Gran Torinocan be classified as reaction time because in theory, you have to recognize something before you react to it,

I'm not denying that recognition time takes place before reaction time. I'm saying it doesn't matter because recognition time is NOT the criteria. Reaction time is. Also:

1)If Midoriya couldn't TRACK Torino, it doesn't mean he couldn't recognise him. You just presumed that on your own.

2) Even IF Midoriya couldn't recognise him, it could simply mean he couldn't see it. You can't recognise what you can't see. If Gran Torino moved too fast for him to see, then he couldn't have recognised it at all.

Because moving too fast to see simply requires crossing your field of vision in less than 1/60 th of a second not 1/222 lile you think.

Look at how i calced Killua's speed, you have to do it the same way I did.

Before I deconstruct what you said, I just want to emphasize that you concede that Gon have the same amount of durability as Killua.

Not really, I didn't go into detail before because you seemed like you actually watched hxh. So I expected you to understand why Killua and Gon have the same durability. If I knew that you didn't, my opener would have been way more detailed.

Propulsion doesn't equate to speed of kicks, or else Gran Torino wouldn't even need his quirk in combat. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

This statement is only true for Gran Torino, because he actually HAS a propulsion system. And you're not making sense right now. If two legs can propel 40 kgs at almost mach2, then one leg should be capable of propeling 20 kgs at mach2. A leg doesn't weigh ANYWHERE near 20 kgs. I can't fathom why you can't understand something so simple. You honestly can't say stuff lile: "propulsion =/= speed of kicks" and generalise it lile that eithout providing any evidence to support that claim.

That's not true at all. Travel speed and combat speed are different, PERIOD

Unsubstantiated claims hold no meaning. PERIOD. You really like generalising things for all cases just because most of the cases seem to fall that what you're attempting to generalise. That is fallacious.

Are you saying that Silver Surfer, a superhero notable for his crazy travel speed, could punch as hard as Superman with 'technique and skill.' Are you saying that Superman can travel as fast as Silver Surfer with 'technique and skill.'

No, I'm not. Stop applying my arguments meant for specific and unique cases to other cases in order to disprove me, I don't see how you don't see that it is fallacious to do so.

The reason my argument and what you're insinuating is different is because:

Killua's combat speed is based of off his muscle power. And Killua BOUNCING across walls using his hands legs to push is also based off of muscle power. So essentially all I'm saying since his muscles are capable of moving heavier objects at supersonic speeds, the can move lighter objects at supersonic speeds as well. It is reallly THAT SIMPLE.

Not to mention, if you see carefully in the GIF, Killua actually kicked FASTER than the speed at which he was moving when Phinks caught him.

And Gon and Killua are, by scaling, bullet timers ATLEAST. So supersonic reaction speed and combat speed as well.

I'm not gonna bother with rest since it is essentially based on the stuff that I've already addressed.

Intelligence

Gon's intelligence is impressive, but Gon's style of planning is way too reactive

What? Are you insinuating that he comes up with his strategies on spot? Well true. But how does that make it inferior to Midoriya's intelligence? When in terms of the actual intelligence itself. Gon has better feats, (using properties of sound to his advantage etc.)

I prefer Midoriya's style of taking the offensive after reading his opponents attacks and preparing countermeasure against them to Gon.

Something he won't be able to do with Gon as proven earlier.

Gon's strategies are a result of his fishing experience, waiting for his opponents to be lured in by the bait he gives them, but Midoriya is too smart to simply fall for such bait.

Firstly no, his fishing experience has nothing to do with his strategies thus far, not sure where you got that from.

Secondly, people way more experienced than Midoriya have fallen for this trap. Secondly predicting a robot's movements which is simple, compared to predicting the movements of birds and tagging them with his fishing rod(so.thing gon did) and tricking Todoroki is not impressive enough to suggest he will see through the best of Gon's traps. But since I still will maintain that intelligence will be a non factor since Midoriya has a mind that is always exercising in the analysis of the battle. Either it will be equal or Gon's brilliant resourcefullness will trump.

It was said by Killua multiple times that Gon tends to rush into situations without thinking, and such impulsiveness will leave Gon vulnerable to Midoriya's strategic planning

Yeah that was addressed in my opener. Gon's apparent stupidity comes from his extreme idealism. For example:

Killua called him stupid when he thoughtlessly angered the Phantom Troupe, which might have gotten them tortured and/or killed.

Killua called him stupid when he said he would head on take on Razor's volleys when they would probably die if they tried to do so, and dodging them would still result in their victory.

Killua called him stupid when he tried to take on Pitou, someone who was massively superior to the both of them combined.

But thung is these aren't cases of actual stupidity. Gon was aware of the consequences of each of his actions, he simply didn't care. He prioritized his ideals even above that of his own well being.

In the first example; Gon knew that angering the PT might get him tortured or killed, but he didn't care because his ideals of right and wrong wa scompletely disgusted by what he saw in them.

In the secodn example, Gon knw that Razor's volleys might kill him. But he prioritized his ideals of what victory over the safety of his life.

In the third one, he prioritized his ideals of not being a coward over his own life.

Therefore Gon isn't stupid like you make him out to be, and is in fact more than smart enough to negate Midoriya's claimed intelligence advantage

Conclusion

Toconclude, Midoriya is simply too strong for Gon to handle, having access to all of All Might's power, and from what I've seen, Gon has nowhere near the durability to tank such an attack. Midoriya is also significantly faster than Gon, tagging a being who can move at 4.5 milliseconds. Lastly, Midoriya's approach to battle inherently gives him an advantage against Gon as his proactive thinking would serve as the perfect counter against Gon's more reactive planning

Wait you didn't even address a shred of my conclusion? You do realise that If you don't counter something or ignore it. That point is a default win for your opponent in a CaV. Since you haven't addressed my conclusion and strategy, I'm assuming you concede that point which is practiaclly an instawin, because in my strategy I claim Gon will pretty much oneshot Midoriya.

Midoriya can't see nen, why? because of In. In is a technique where a nen user makes his nen invisible to the invisible eye. In order to see nen and aura, one must use Gyo, a technique where one focuses aura into one's eyes. Something Midoriya can't do. And since Midoriya can't use Gyo, he won't be able to see nen at all.

He won't be able to differentiate a normal punch from Rock punch. Since to his eyes, they will appear to be the same. He definitely won't be able to see Scissor, the blade of scissor will be completely undetectable and invisible to him. When Gon swings it at him, he won't dodge, all he will se is gon swinging his arm before he gets sliced in half.

He will not be able to see the projectiles of Paper. All he will see is Gon asking for a high five, and momentsater he takes critical damage from a nen projectile.

Since Gon will be aware that Midoriya doesn't and can't use nen, there is no doubt that he will use such a hax ability to his advantage. That is the deal sealer to my strategy; In.

This remains my irrefuted strategy, Gon is resourcefull enough to use this strategy to oneshot Midoriya in many ways

And I'm done @gearsecond659, voting period starts now. Had a ton of fun in this debate and for that I'm grateful, good luck to you! :)

Avatar image for streak619
#42 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for rr79
#43 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: lol, just checked it a few minutes ago and the closer for Gon wasn't up yet. I will have to read through that one first.

Avatar image for thewatcherking
#44 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18461 posts) - - Show Bio

Open already? Well I'll try to vote in a few days, no promises though.

Online
Avatar image for streak619
#45 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: looking forward.

@watcher5000: plis ma man :)

Avatar image for streak619
#46 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for chronicplane
#47 Posted by Chronicplane (9192 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, I'll try to get up my vote within the next few days though no promises.

Avatar image for rr79
#48 Edited by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading the closers again(already read all the rest at least twice) I believe my vote has to go to @streak619. I think @gearsecond659 relied too heavily on using All mights power when Deku hasn't really shown to do that often. But what really sealed the deal is this:

Midoriya can't see nen, why? because of In. In is a technique where a nen user makes his nen invisible to the invisible eye. In order to see nen and aura, one must use Gyo, a technique where one focuses aura into one's eyes. Something Midoriya can't do. And since Midoriya can't use Gyo, he won't be able to see nen at all.

He won't be able to differentiate a normal punch from Rock punch. Since to his eyes, they will appear to be the same. He definitely won't be able to see Scissor, the blade of scissor will be completely undetectable and invisible to him. When Gon swings it at him, he won't dodge, all he will se is gon swinging his arm before he gets sliced in half.

He will not be able to see the projectiles of Paper. All he will see is Gon asking for a high five, and momentsater he takes critical damage from a nen projectile.

Since Gon will be aware that Midoriya doesn't and can't use nen, there is no doubt that he will use such a hax ability to his advantage. That is the deal sealer to my strategy; In.

Gear really didn't provide a counter for this.

Avatar image for ancient_0f_days
#49 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (17143 posts) - - Show Bio

It's hard to argue for Midoriya against Gon who is decades ahead of him as far as development goes.......streak wins

Avatar image for streak619
#50 Posted by Streak619 (7747 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: thanks for the vote.

@ancient_0f_days: so are you voting because my arguments convinced you more than his?