CaV: MCU Thor (xZone) Vs MCU Thanos and Hela (Kevd4wg)

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#301 Posted by Kevd4wg (14252 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Interesting post, I'll have one up in like a week or so hopefully

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#302 Posted by Scipio123 (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Honestly, is there ANY Live-Action MCU/DCEU/Fox/CW character that you think can beat Thor?

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#303 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio
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#304 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Alrighty, I’ve enjoyed this CAV

X

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#305 Posted by Scipio123 (644 posts) - - Show Bio
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#306 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@scipio123: I don’t know too much about Fox/CW Characters, but MCU/WoDC. Superman, dormammu, and a few others

X

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#308 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#309 Posted by phisigmatau (2108 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wgmy bad :

@richubs said:

@phisigmatau:

If you just can't see Thor winning this then why have you voted for xZone he was arguing for Thor.

i liked his arguments better

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#310 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau: Voting is not open yet. Kev still has another post

X

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#311 Posted by ourmanuel (13756 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, Xzone admitting there are chars who can beat thor

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#312 Edited by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: You know I think plenty of characters can. I believe I have told you I think WoDC Superman can beat Thor around 4/10 times

X

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#313 Posted by ourmanuel (13756 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:

@ourmanuel: You know I think plenty of characters can. I believe I have told you I think WoDC Superman can beat Thor around 4/10 times

X

4/10 is still a loss

So basically we’re back to square one?

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#314 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I think Thor wins more often than not, but that doesn’t mean I believe Clark can’t beat him which is what you claimed “Can Win” and “Will Win” are different things

X

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#315 Posted by ourmanuel (13756 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: so Thor is still functionally the LA solo king?

thanks for clearing it up.

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#316 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12277 posts) - - Show Bio

This is literally me after reading X's post:

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#317 Posted by Nucleon (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on guys - Can't wait to vote here.

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#318 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio
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#319 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#320 Posted by Darkthunder (3758 posts) - - Show Bio

TV4

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#321 Edited by Scipio123 (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Ok, so then: are there any LA characters that can take a majority against MCU Thor?

Surtur? Hancock? Magneto? Prof X? Doctor Manhattan? What about Godzilla?

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#322 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@scipio123: I don’t know much about LA characters besides MCU/WoDC. I think it’s likely Thor takes a majority against Surter

X

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#323 Posted by Scipio123 (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: You don't need to know much about those other characters to know that Thor gets stomped by them.

Hancock did this:

Magneto has legit planetary level feats:

Prof. X has telepathy, which Thor is vulnerable to, while the good doctor and Big G both are on a completely different level.

So, do you accept that these characters can take a majority against Thor? If you accept this, I'll shut up and stop derailing this thread any further.

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#326 Edited by Scipio123 (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Dude, I'm just trolling you! All the best in the CaV!

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#327 Edited by Kevd4wg (14252 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor meets his End

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Thor vs Hela

You mean a weak attempt at dodging the obvious speed gap? Just ignore scenes you don't like?

No Caption Provided

Now, I'll get to this beautiful irony later, but what I was clearly saying is that single gifs that have literally no context are not representative of the entire fight. This is only the first problem with reading comprehension though.

What? Hela's entire hax powerset is long range...

This is gonna sound really crazy but, it's almost like when Thor and her were fighting CQC he had a weapon and she didn't which would give him a range advantage.

Yeah, mind blowing.

Thor lunges at Hela and she dodges. That is not Hela throwing Thor, but a simple dodge. Thor was not taken out of the fight, he simply jumped past Hela, then immediately charged towards her again

Then Thor is just a god awful fighter for making that leap. I mean you can see that Thor is just behind Hela, but doesn't go back to Hela till she's done dispatching Valkyrie

Loading Video...

As to wether Thor could get a clean hit or not, look at Thor's first sword swing; Thor was able to graze Hela with his sword, then look at the third sword swing; Thor was able to get a clean hit to Hela's face. With Stormbreaker, Thor would have cut Hela's head clean off

Wut? How did he land a clean hit, but not do any damage despite the fact that Hela was hit straight through with a sword. It's not like it makes sense that her hat would be more durable then her cape. Thor clearly only hit Hela with lightning or at absolute best grazed her.

My Opponent says that this scene here is not a speed/skill feat for Thor because all he's using is lightning

I want to talk about the strategy that Thor and Valkyrie implemented against Hela, a strategy of hit and run. They would do quick attacks, taking advantage of having a partner to distract her for a second so that Hela could never press advantages(hence why Hela never dominated at any one moment in that fight). It's a strategy generally used for stalling like what they were doing with Loki and Surtur, but doesn't actually lead to victor, hence how in the end Hela did end up winning.

But he claims that this here is a skill/speed feat for Hela when all she does is use a blade to increase her reach

Yes very astute observation, Hela's arm is not freakishly long, you're truly a genius. But this has nothing to do with what I'm arguing. You keep countering stuff I never said, I said

So what you're saying is, that before Thor could move his fist like a few inches to hit Hela, Hela pulled out a sword and easily gutted him, moving farther then Thor did.

Which you never even attempted to counter

Kev is using a double standard. In one of the scenarios both Hela and Thor had their hax, and the other only Hela had hers, but even if you use the one that is unfair for Thor, he still got 4 hits in before being tagged by the superior opponent. Thor is clearly superior in Speed/Skill

This is one gif in an entire fight, literally the rest of the fight Hela was dominating in every way. Take for instance right here

No Caption Provided

Hela clearly looks faster and more skilled, dodging Thor's hit with a ranged weapon, blocking it, catching it, and throwing it all before Thor can do anything. One off gifs never tell the full story.

Actually, the scene cuts to Loki, then to the Asgardian people

We don't actually see the scene in question, so we have to make an assumption about what happened

Val is struggling to get off the ground in the scene, then the next scene cuts back to Thor and Hela mid fight, then Thor throwing Hela towards Valkyrie

This leads me to the conclusion that Valkyrie didn't fight Hela while Thor was down as Kev says, but instead that Thor got back up, fought Hela, then threw Hela at Valkyrie like we see in the next scene

This would mean if Thor was somehow stabbed, he is perfectly capable of getting back up from stabs to fight Hela before she even gets to him

So let me get this straight, Thor gets hit and goes off screen and we see Valkyrie standing up to fight, but the only logical assumption is Valkyrie fell back down to stay down and Thor pops up instantly and fights Hela.

Yeah that seems um...

This part in particular is where the scene cuts back to, and as you can see, Thor was not affected much by Hela's attacks. He was up and ready to fight again in seconds. Thor then blocked a blade from Hela, then grabbed her before she could react. Thor didn't have a weapon at the time, but if he had Stormbreaker he could have cut Hela in half

You say this like it was 5 seconds and a major wound and not 15 seconds by getting tapped on the soldier.

Also Thor only threw Hela because of how she extended her arm, that in no way translates to chopping Hela in half.

Thor Is talking to Heimdall when Hela attacks him with blades... Talk about being distracted, and that's besides the fact that Thor was still somehow able to react to two/three blades even when he wasn't looking until after he dodged the first one. Again, Thor didn't have a weapon here to block with, so he was forced to block his arm and failed. In this battle Thor has a weapon capable of blocking Hela's blades, so even if Thor was somehow distracted he can block/dodge blades

He wasn't looking, he blocked the first two, but then he looked the most, but he wasn't really looking, distracted something something something.

Dude, if he blocked the first two, he was obviously looking. He just got overwhelmed.

Both of the times that Thor was actually tagged were due to him not having a good weapon to block with, and the only time that Thor was actually down for more than a few seconds was when Thor wasn't even looking, so yes, the battle does make it pretty clear

As I told you, as soon as he starts using the weapon to block with, Hela can switch from the overwhelming that worked on lightning cloak to the shooting necroblades in two separate places(or more) at once that one weapon couldn't block.

Yeah, because Thor didn't have a weapon to do much damage with... You act like Hela beating this Thor means she can beat Thor with Stormbreaker, and that simply isn't a fair comparison

Cuz it's not like Thor ever had a weapon that could easily cut through Hela before...(His asgardian swords are just way weaker then the other ones that stabbed Hela I guess). Your right, now that Thor has an axe he's going to go from stomped with Help to stomping against Hela and a better teammate.

Thor hits Hela 4 times, then Hela extends her reach and hits Thor once, but you say that Hela is faster. That's denial

Fun Fact, it's hard to hit someone if they're hitting you repeatedly. It's called pressing an advantage not being faster, stop being moronic. What Hela did, hit from a farther distance while Thor was pressing the advantage, is what being actually faster looks like.

I ask the reader to look closely. Hela's arm was not long enough to hit Thor.

Well shit I concede. Hela's arms are indeed not long enough to beat Thor.

It's hard to tell from the image if Thor tagged her, but Valkyrie was not needed at all for Thor to get close

It's not hard to tell, I thinks it's hard for you to concede a point you're obviously wrong on. And Valkyrie was absolutely needed, anything else is complete headcanon because in the movie Valkyrie distracted Hela for Thor to get close. That's literally WHAT HAPPENED.

If Hela could have just moved back she should have done it here instead of getting hit in the face

That's not how fighting works... if you just keep moving backword from an opponent you can't tag them. You stay as close to someone with a range advantage as possible, but still far enough to avoid weapons. Like what are you even talking about?

Thor tag Hela twice in that encounter, and either one of them with Stormbreaker would be the end of Hela

How??? One does not explode upon contact with Stormbreaker, for Stormbreaker to chop someone in half it has to actually do that, chop someone in half. Hela can easily heal off any superficial wounds, caused by Stormbreaker or not because it's a superficial wound either way.

The first Sword hit may have been more of a light hit, but the second Sword strike was dead on. Stormbreaker would have cut her head clean off

It just failed to cut the headdress right?

Inferior weapons to Stormbreaker. Stormbreaker has far better feats than anything that pierced Hela. Are you Really going to argue that Stormbreaker to the face is not going to kill Hela? That's ridiculous and you know it

More problems with reading comprehension, I said that Thor has to land a killing blow with Stormbreaker to actually kill with it. If he taps Hela it's not like her body is gonna instantly split in half lol.

Stormbreaker's blade didn't even need to come in to contact with an Outrider to cut it in half Link. Outriders were surviving gunfire, the Wakandan shield, and knife wounds, so the wooden handle of Stormbreaker casually cutting one in half is pretty impressive

Outriders were killed by bullets?

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I guess I'm supposed to be impressed by cutting non bullet proof fodder?

Who's hitting more, who's getting hit more

In my 5 second gif designed to make Thor look better, who looks better? Boom argument won

I have made it very, very clear, that Thor is faster and more skilled, so I hope you will concede this point

Keep dreaming. The only thing you've made clear is your narrow focus by posting the same 3 gifs from 3 fights of way more footage to say Thor is faster, when it's simply not true.

First, I want to point out that I very specifically asked Kev for One instance where Hela was controlling the fight. He hasn't done that, but what is even more important is Kev has still failed to show a CQC part of the fight where Hela was pressing an advantage. She never was. Thor was the one pushing his advantage the entire fight

Idk I thought the part where Hela was laughing while Valkyrie and Thor were on the ground very injured was controlling the fight, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway I already went over the hit and run strat earlier.

And if you're counting the Throne room fight in this, then I don't know what to say.

Thor cleary is not looking at the first blade. I assume Thor heard the first spear or sensed it somehow, but he most certainly wasn't looking at the blade. It's a lot easier to be overwhelmed when you don't see the first projectile

So how did he block the first 2 but not the third. Does Thor's magical 6th sense max out at 2?

And a second time when Thor didn't have an adequate weapon to block with. Stormbreaker is much larger than a sword, and has a larger surface area to block with. Thor tried to block with his arm here, but was hit by a spiked mace (Look closely and you will see Thor blocked the blade but the mace hit his shoulder). This again, will not be a problem when Thor can easily block the projectiles like this:

I don't see what you're talking about at all. He just got hit

And blocking them with Mjolnir is completely countered by just shooting 2 necroblades at once, something Hela loves to do.

Quit using a scene where Thor wasn't looking for goodness sake. How desperate are you that you rely on a scene where Thor wasn't looking

How desperate are you to rely on that one scene in the Throne room where Thor punching somehow makes him faster.

First, Thanos will more than likely be dead from a Stormbreaker hit right off the bat, but even if your silly scenario somehow happened, Thor can just do this as he's done before:

And then never did again.

The important thing I want You, the Reader to understand is that Thor was only put down for more than around 5 seconds once via blades, and that's when Thor de-activated his cloak and talked to Heimdall, then was hit while he wasn't paying attention or looking. Thor with Stormbreaker would easily block any of these blades by Hela, and that is clear

It's not like his cloak ever blocked Necroblades. And his cloak wasn't activated for most of Wakanda so...

Interesting how you didn't bother to show these close range beat downs by Hela after Thor had his lightning amp. Probably because they don't exist. Do you really think Valkyrie aided Thor much here? Why even mention Val or Thanos? They are essentially non-factors

Val is the only reason Thor survived, does that sound like a non-factor to you?

To ignore that fact is denying what happened On-Screen

Irony strikes again

I see nothing but Thor hitting Hela with Gungnir, then Hela grabbing Gungnir after being tagged twice. Thor was controlling the fight, it's blatantly obvious

So you think a block is getting tagged? Your lack of knowledge on fights is astounding.

Underhanded throw

Cept Stormbreaker isn't pointy on top.

2) Thor clearly didn't hit Thanos as hard as he could have. We know this because of how casually Thor was able to push Stormbreaker deeper in to Thanos' chest Here. He wanted Thanos to have a slow death

sigh, sure he pushed it in later, because he applied extra force. Like if you shot a bullet already inside a person it would go farther... no shit. This doesn't prove that he didn't go all out. He clearly went all out, he just didn't aim for the head. I mean does this look like holding back to you

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3) Stormbreaker has better piercing feats than piercing Thanos

Lol wut?

Stormbreaker pierces the side of this Outrider ship

This was just a bullrush, like Thor did with Mjolnir to the Ice Monster. I guess Mjolnir's flat surface had great piercing too. This is some god awful logic.

1) Hela was still pierced Through by a regular Asgardian Sword. Either she has a weakness to Asgardian weapons or just has weak piercing feats, and either way, Stormbreaker cuts her head off or cuts her in half

It's almost like I said her gauntlets that she blocked Gungir with(which cut through the same thing the sword did) and not everything else. This is at least the 3rd time your reading comprehension has been garbage.

2) I don't recall the Russo's saying that. The IG slowed down Stormbreaker. Deal with i

They clearly say

Joe: The man who made the, uh

Anthony: Etri

Joe: The Gauntlet and the axe provided Thor with the weapon that could defeat the gauntlet

The writers say straight up that Eitri gave Thor a weapon that could deal with the IG, it's implied pretty heavily imo that it's due to both being made of the same material(uru). Additionally a screenwriter basically said the same thing

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Stormbreaker would pierce more effectively than Gungnir because it has a blade, and because the lightning emitting from it can casually cut Outriders in half

Gungir also has a blade? Also, the lightning never cut outriders in half lol, that's not how lightning works. I watched the video, it's just the axe so far as I can tell.

What the actual... So you think Hela can just put her Arm up to block Stormbreaker's blade and it won't affect her? Really?

>wants to disprove durability of gauntlets

>Posts Hela gets stabbed in the chest

great argument

When did Hela dodge Gungnir?

When Hela and Thor did the big flippy Thingy and literally Thor's immediate swing after Thor hit her in the gut and that time she blocked it. Hey I'm noticing a pattern, after Thor's feint he didn't hit her with it once.

Well, someone is plugging their ears to avoid feats,

Irony continues to make a return

Look closely, the bladed edge of Stormbreaker extends to the top of the Axe, so it would be piercing just like it did these ships

I like how you took the image that made it look as sharp as possible, i mean look at it actually in the movie

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It's nowhere near as pointy as your picture looks. Also, that tiny piercing would do nothing. Doesn't matter how sharp Stormbreaker is, if it's causing that tiny a cut either Hela or Thanos can shrug it off and beat Thor up.

Ah, so you're ready to admit Thor has the skill and speed advantages now?

Bad reading comprehension strikes again

Hela absolutely dominated a Thor after he got 10ish hits in, who also lacked two of the amps he has now in this fight

10? In that gif you keep posting. I was worried about your reading comprehension, but now I'm worried about your math too.

Well, Thor was fighting 5 outriders from different directions. He's obviously going to be using the weapon a little differently than against one opponent, but that doesn't mean he can't use it just as easily

It does mean you have no evidence he can other then your headcannon. I mean just picture someone pressing the advantage like Thor did with the swords, but this time with a giant ass battle axe. They're different weapons and have different fighting styles.

<sigh> So using hax on fodder is now impressive?

I'm starting to get concerned. Can you read? I literally specifically said and posted a purely H2H feat.

Erm... Yeah, but Thor wasn't trying to kill them... That makes a massive difference... I mean..

Doesn't change he struggled and Hela fodderized them casually. Both H2H vs Weapons.

Well, one of them is attacking one opponent in one direction. The other one is attacking 5 opponents in 5 directions.. Tbh, the Stormbreaker feat looks as or even more impressive

It doesn't matter whether it's "more impressive" or whatever the hell that means in this case, it's different weapons. Stormbreaker lacks the fluidity of swords that made his instance against Hela possible. Just because Stormbreaker is more powerful means it works the same as every weapon and I don't know why it's so hard for you to get this in your skull.

Actually, I've presented multiple instances where Thor was outpacing Hela, but one is better than none which is what you have presented. Also... Are you saying one necroblade is now enough to make Hela vulnerable to an attack? That makes this easier than it was before. Thor could just wait for Hela to attack, then kill her with Stormbreaker

Only in this one instance where she overextended herself, which she learned from and never did again.

Well, when someone is denying what happened On-Screen I show them again. It shows the audience that you are more or less in denial.

I mean, I know I start to skim I'm sure they do too, but whatever. It shows me your argument is really reliant on a few one off instances.

Thanos is getting one-shot here, stop acting like he's a crutch to lean on. Valkyrie did just about nothing, and Thor was distracted trying to save the Asgardians. Also, labeling a King's Weapon as "an axe" is funny, considering that "axe" One-shot a guy who had the completed IG

  1. Valkyrie was very helpful for Thor against Hela. If Thanos is that useful, but this time can put down Thor and more skilled and faster I'll take it
  2. Stormbreaker is literally an axe

Tagged twice (First when he throws Gungnir, then when he hits Hela with a swing from Gungnir)

>misses her head entirely

>tagged her

Hard to tell if it's a direct tag, but in the same circumstance Stormbreaker would have tagged Hela

Sometimes it's like you're being intentionally stupid

Yes, it is a long time, but it was probably 5-10 seconds because it cuts back to them mid combat. That's besides the fact that Thor will be blocking with Stormbreaker now, so blades won't be a problem. Also, for consistency sake, how many times did Hela try to hit Thor and how many times did she fail?

5-10 is a long ass time

After Re-Watching the scene. Here are the Necroblade numbers:

As I mentioned earlier literally everytime Hela attempted to overwhelm him which she did 2/3 times once she did it once, she tagged him, so this argument falls moot.

Stormbreaker Is a disadvantage now?

Never said that, i said different weapons are different which you are somehow arguing against.

Well, if Thor throws Stormbreaker from the other side of the Bifrost bridge I don't see how Hela will reach Thor. Thor can block a few blades without Stormbreaker like he has On-Screen

Did you like forget that she has blades. He throws stormbreaker, she overwhelms him with like 3 blades at most, Hela chops his head off while he's out

The heck? Lightning and Stormbreaker don't change the H2H battle? Come on Kev, let's be reasonable here. Hela was not overpowering Thor like this post amp

Because of the hit and run strategy which he can't execute here because it's reliant on having multiple people, and guess who has the numbers advantage here.

Hela was getting overpowered by Thor

Getting ragdolled by lightning isn't being overpowered... If that's true Thor got overpowered 3 seconds later when Hela hit him with a necroblade and he was out for much longer. So guess I found the instance.

Kev has horribly failed

Well shucks

Thor vs Thanos

No, not really. But someone was definitely getting embarrassed

Agreed

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When Thor was serious he hit Hulk twelve times before being tagged

And Guess how much longer that took him compared to Thanos?

Thor hit Hulk twice Post-Amp, and both times Hulk was down for around 25 seconds, and was dazed after that

The second one, which was longer then the first was about 15 seconds and both had moments of slow mo in them. Plus Hulk got up fine. So I guess nice job lying and obscuring context to the voters?

If Thanos somehow did start ground pounding Thor, he's just going to get hit by Lightning

If Thor is incapped by a necroblade, he's dead before he can pull this off. And why should I think Thor can pull these off in immense pain, only times he did was when he had Odin there to help him through it in visions.

Not really. Most of Thor's attacks are ranged, he has a one-shot weapon, and if he gets ground pounded he can call lightning down on himself which has already kept Hela off-screen for 2 minutes

And yet Thor just loves to put himself in CQC, even in Ragnarok where he was just trying to stall for like 3 minutes, but didn't decide to call down lightning on Hela. Ok...

I'm providing an either or scenario, which is why I said, "It's possible Thanos was intentionally Tanking Hulk's punches, but that would only reinforce the idea that Thanos wouldn't try to dodge Stormbreaker"

And one of your either or are dumbass as hell

That's not what I said. I said I don't need to argue Thor can physically beat Thanos because Stormbreaker will do the work for him, though yes, Thor probably won't be tagged by Thanos because Thanos will have an axe in his chest or head long before he hits Thor

And if that happens Thor will have a necroblade separating his head from his throat.

) Here you go

Talking =/= holding back

1) Thor's first hammer hit almost KO'd the Hulk. If Thor had actually started beating Hulk down he could have won, but he held back

No Caption Provided

That's why he went on to beat the shit out of Thor until Thor got the lightning amp.

2) Thor hit the Hulk twelve times before Hulk could hit Thor again... Thanos hit Hulk about the same amount. The only reason Thanos' looks more impressive is because he is stronger than the Hulk, so he KO'd him, but that has nothing to do with Speed or Skill

Except he did it in waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less time then Thor and in way better combos. Thor hit and ran, Thanos pounded him in. Which requires more skill.

Comparable speeds? Sure, but Thor fights long range while Thanos doesn't, and Thor has a one-shot weapon. Also, Thor doesn't require more time to casually throw Stormbreaker, but an over the head swing is probably a little slower. Hela's necroblades are doing nothing to Thor since he has

There's no reason to believe a casual throw can one-shot Thanos when an over the head didn't do much

Counters to Solo King

Flight

When has Thor actually missed with the blade? It seems his timing is pretty on point or he's aiming the blade via telekinesis

I never said that, so that's reading comprehension again. This is the 5th time(iirc) you've countered an argument I didn't make, which really hurts you since you never countered the argument I did. I said Hela can grab Stormbreaker while the blade is turned away from her.

Thor had to get to them quickly before they left

Which he can do from the air

Nothing, Kurse backhanded him

It's almost like that was my point.

Yeah, because he couldn't levitate, but he's done it with Stormbreaker

You literally posted him levitating in your first post in the Tornado, but whatever. Like what do you Think Thor is doing right here

Again, couldn't levitate at the time. You claimed Thor didn't use his flight in battle, period, so don't change your request now and act like I didn't offer the evidence you asked for before

You were claiming Thor would avoid CQC using flight, which I disagreed with. You're moving the goal post to something that doesn't support your argument at all.

That's what you said before, and I showed multiple instances of Thor using flight in combat

Wow he flew up and hit Surtur's head, truly I am astonished at how his flight will allow him to beat Hela

Just gonna accept your concession on this point now

On what the levitating thing? Because he was going down to talk to Cap? Or maybe the lightning thing where he was descending, saw fodder, and hit them. Completely different then staying in the air and raining down lightning, including in Wakanda where he could levitate(because apparently he couldn't earlier) which would've been really helpful

Plus as I said, Hela can just use necroblades to knock him out of the sky.

Once again, you said Thor doesn't use flight in combat. I proved he does, so now you're shifting the goal post. Also, no... Thor used ranged lightning primarily

Literally 3/5 of the gifs you posted were CQC and the other one was while Hela was pinned. Nice job proving your point.

Let's just ignore the evidence then I suppose... Thor and Hela fought for about a 2 minutes (Including the balcony palace scene) and in that time Thor used two lightning bolts on Hela. Is that really not enough for you?

Considering one was while Hela was stuck pinned and the other was in a special circumstance, yeah absolutely. Especially since neither was pulled off in actual combat while both of Hela's hits on Thor were.

The evidence that Thor can use lightning from the sky instantly is undeniable

This is probably the craziest misinterpretation of what I've said yet. Like what, this is literally undeniable and I never denied it, he's been doing it since Thor 1. I said the balcony feat isn't normal for him, how you got this is beyond me.

Sure

That wasn't a bullrush, that was literally Thor flying forward.

Lol

If they try to ground pound Thor they will be

If they're "trying to ground pound Thor" and Hela's there his head is chopped off.

The shockwave from Thor's attack is clearly destroying all of this (Look at the towers falling in the distance and background) The script just confirms what we saw

How do Towers falling over prove it's Thor's attack... that makes no sense.

There is no reason Hela couldn't have used those blades like she did stopping the Asgardian's from leaving on their ship, but again,

I don't know if you noticed. But those blades came out of the ground and the bifrost was between the ground and Thor in that battle. If Thor levitates guess what isn't between him and the ground.

Thor won't just be sitting in the air waiting to be hit. He will fly in the air, use some lightning to daze his opponents, then blitz them

These could not be farther from a blitz. Thanos reacted to Thor and Hela was pinned. Great job Thor can blitz a rock, very impressive speed. A blitz is overwhelming someone with speed, not a "sudden attack" lol.

Thanos tries to tank things IC

Thanos also has a brain. He's not gonna try to tank something that already almost killed him

From across the Bifrost bridge?

You seem to think Thor can hit that distance with Stormbreaker

Weather Manipulation

So Hela fell in to a hole in the water, then sat in there for over a minute. Is that what I'm hearing?

No, she got sent down in a massive fissure. I swear, can you read?

Funny, but I said Hela didn't look fine because you said this: "This blast simply BFRed Hela. If you look at the Ragnarok script, it's shown that the blast hit her into a fissure that was created by Surtur where she was fine, but BFRed."

Hurt doesn't mean not fine. Do you think feeling pain = put down?

Bottom line: This is NOT shown On-Screen

Just explicitly stated in the script, you know the movie but in words. I mean you wanna show me the shockwave on the jotenheim feat on screen?

"Another feat backs that feat up"

The second feat isn't like the palace feat for so many reasons

  1. It was channeled through Dragonfang directly into Hela's body so not something Thor can normally replicate through normal sky to ground
  2. It obviously wasn't close to as powerful: size, Hela was down for less time(and was BFRed ofc)

>Outpacing

>Overpowers two opponents

Tfw Hela never used strength against Thor and Valkyrie in the final battle.

When has Thor needed to replicate that kind of bolt? Why do you expect Thor to do something he hasn't needed to. Thor has used lightning bolts from the sky 6 times in this fashion On-Screen

Holy shit dude. You keep countering arguments I never even hinted at. I said, and this is gonna sound crazy, more powerful bolts take more effort.

Just insane I know.

In both of these images we see the same thing: Lightning emitting from Thor's body that is destroying the object he's flying through. It's obvious the Cloak was destroying these ships

Literally nothing about either of these gifs is obvious, one is fast, blurry, in the corner of the screen, the other takes place inside a ship. Literally anything could've happened. Maybe Thor busted out a lightning bazooka, who knows

Well, one of them has feats that I have provided, and one of them doesn't/you haven't provided any, so you don't have to wonder any longer

Well since you think all lightning from the sky is the same then all lightning from hammer is the same so Thanos is more durable then a leviathan to energy. That should work. At least, according to your logic.

Thor can block 1-2 blades in the 5-10 seconds it will take Stormbreaker to finish off Thanos

He can't stopped getting overwhelmed though, which he never has and would take like 1 second in all honesty

After Thor hit Hulk they were both blown back. You can clearly see in the video that all Thor did was bend his legs when he was pushed back, and all he did in the gif you posted was slowly rise up. Thor wasn't hurt at all, man, you're just reaching

So Hulk healed in the time it takes Thor to stand up I guess

Your scaling is blowing my mind, but sure, Hela is more durable than Hulk, at least in blunt durability

My scaling that Hela took Thor's punches better then Hulk in the same movie so he's more durable then Hulk?

Yeah, so much scaling...

Lightning/Weather Manip

1) Hela hasn't shown the speed to do so. If she could just casually catch every weapon Thor threw she would have caught gungnir

So Gungir is faster then Mjolnir? There's literally 0, 0, less then 0 actually to think Stormbreaker is faster then Mjolnir, so yeah, Hela can catch it.

Turns out Hela doesn't catch weapons unless they are conveniently thrown to her hand

It's literally thrown to the same spot, it just seems like Thor had momentum and Hela was a bit off. It's literally context less, it happens mid fight out of the blue, Mjolinr seems like a much better indicator of what would happen normally.

2) Stormbreaker has lightning on it and around it (Kinda like it's own mini cloak). That lightning alone was cutting the outriders in half just from the wooden side of Stormbreaker Linklooking to the left in slow motion you can see the wooden end of Stormbreaker cutting an outrider clean in half. That's more than enough piercing power to hurt Hela if she tried to catch Stormbreaker

  1. That looks like the blade to me
  2. Assault rifle Bullets were murking outriders, lol @ Hela through her armor dying to bullets

3) All of that is besides the fact that Thor can just call Stormbreaker back to himself or move it when Hela reaches her arm out to catch, and before you mention he didn't with Mjolnir, Thor was in shock, he had never seen someone stop Mjolnir before plus catching Stormbreaker will be much harder, if not impossible, due to the blade and lightning

Thor literally tried to pull back Mjolnir, but couldn't. Like wut, it wasn't because he was surprised, Hela was just that strong

I was referring to throwing Stormbreaker underhanded, like I said. Stormbreaker would still be spinning, but simply thrown underhand

How? Throwing something underhanded like that creates 0 spinning motion at all. When Thor threw it over head for instance, that's a motion that creates spinning motion. Like I want to know where this spinning comes from.

Stop reaching, Kev

Yep I'm reaching for saying you can't fight the same way with a bulky sword as you can with two skinny swords.

My b

You expect Thor to let Hela grab Stormbreaker the same way she did Mjolni

I literally said in my first post Thor would be far more cautious with Stormbreaker and using Stormbreaker because Hela was there and thus wouldn't just try to one-shot Thanos with it off the bat.

Thanks for helping my argument btw.

yet Thanos tanking an attack like he did all through infinity war is where you draw the line? Double Standard

Seems like I've been pretty consistent so far

Do you see a pattern here? Thanos blocks/tanks in combat in character. He doesn't dodge, he tanks or blocks. If you want to argue "well thanos knows what Stormbreaker will do now" How about I just argue Thor knows lightning can KO Hela, so he flies in the sky and spams lightning for the entire fight. I can't do that because that's not in character

So it's in character for Thanos to try and die is what you're saying? Like, yeah Thanos likes to tank, but he's not gonna be like, yeah let's try and tank this again because it killed me last time, but this time it won't.

Like, that's really stupid, no offense

Being chased? They will be dead in seconds.. But even if they weren't, Thor is on the other side of the Bifrost, dude. You act like Thor will throw Stormbreaker in CQC. Thor throws Stormbreaker when he is far away from his opponents

Then it's gonna take Stormbreaker a while to cross the bridge, kill Thanos, and come back, especially since Thanos is dodging. Hela can easily take Thor down with Necroblades in that time(which fun fact, also ranged) and then he can't control stormbreaker.

Thor isn't just going to throw Stormbreaker away, then fight a physically stronger opponent H2H. He's going to kill Thanos, then call Stormbreaker back to himself to fight Hela

What do you think Hela will be doing during this time? Waiting

Scenarios

Scenario 1: Blitzing and Stormbreaker I think?

The definition of Blitz is a sudden attack

No wonder you think MCU Thor has ever blitzed anyone. I posted what an actual blitz looks like in my first post, for those who don't remember

No Caption Provided

The definition you got of a blitz is the general definition referring to military tactics. Just like Stomp and Spite have a different meaning on CV, so does blitz where it means overwhelming someone else with speed. Something Thor has never done

Except Hela literally never did this. Hela always took her time attacking Thor. Do you really think she's just going to all out sprint now? Come on... That's besides the fact that Thor won't be getting tagged like that

Hela toyed with Thor in the Throne room, but otherwise, yeah... She outpaced Thor at speeds in the bifrost and didn't get the chance to on the Bifrost due to the hit and run strategy

Do you mean block the blunt edge, like this?

Uh yeah, crushing Mjolnir and casually overpowering Thor is more then enough to do that. Plus, let's not pretend that every hit Thor uses is that strong or that he can land a hit that slow on Hela.

Scenario 2: Bullrushing I think?

Come on, Kev. Her blades increase her reach how can you not see that?

Uh yeah, doesn't change she moved more then Thor

Xzone's two other counters have already been countered

Scenario 3: CQC

Thanos was stronger than Hulk, so he could overpower him. Thor was weaker than Hulk, so he had to use skill

Thor really didn't seem to be using much skill. Honestly, it really seems like Thanos used more. Sure Thanos put him down easily and Thor couldn't put him down at all, but come on Thanos did it much quicker then Thor.

Vast difference to anyone looking without bias

Yeah Thanos did a lot more combos quicker and more efficiently, I agree thank you

Not at all... The scene cuts and is not applicable

Because? As soon as Thor launches lightning he throws Stormbreaker and we know the IG launched about the same time Thor threw Stormbreaker in which time Thanos recovered, stood up, and fired IG. A cut doesn't invalidate common sense

I realize you aren't serious, but what you said is correct in this instance. Which is a better showing of skill? Captain America beating a regular human or a regular human beating Captain America?

Massive difference and you know it, it's more like what's more impressive a peak human landing 12 hits over time against an angry Cap with no skill or a superior super soldier stomping him in seconds using blocks and skill.

Captain America isn't a fair analogy due to the fact he's skilled and faster himself, it's a completely different situation.

This is actually untrue. Since Thor couldn't put Hulk down as quickly he had far more opportunities to be tagged than Thanos did

So because Thor did his 12 hits over a much longer period of time it's more impressive?

X's First post again in his 3rd post

Thor already outpaced Hela On-Screen and is perfectly capable of blocking/dodging Hela's blades

Gif dumping isn't an argument, also you once again posted the reaction feat where somehow Thor wasn't looking but still blocked it. So you agree it's legit

And even if Hela tries to overload Thor with multiple blades he can block them with Stormbreaker

If he tries to block it like against the Chitauri Hela does this

No Caption Provided

As I've said, he can't block two blades at the same time in different locations if he's only blocking with one weapon.

And plus, he can't block with Stormbreaker if he's insta throwing it at Thanos

As well as hitting his opponents with Lightning while he's flying. Keep in mind Thor's lightning has already KO'd Hela with Lightning

Keep in mind as Xzone admitted not all of Thor's lightning is the same and his more powerful lightning takes more effort.

Thor can call down lightning from the sky casually to KO Hela or Thanos. Thor has already done this On-Screen, and Kev has not disproven this whatsoever. His head cannon of Hela falling in to some imaginary hole is not seen On-Screen

>Head Canon
>Literally directly stated by the script, which is written by all the people who decide what the characters power levels and relation to each other is

Yeah I'm just making this shit up

Even the blunt force from Stormbreaker alone is more than enough to put down Thanos or Hela

Glad you brought this up in your last post by scan dumping and not arguing it basically the whole time

The rest was like C/P from his second post which I've countered

Conclusion

Let's look at X's scenarios

Scenario 1

Thor throws Stormbreaker and without a weapon to block gets almost immediately overwhelmed by Hela who then cuts his head off.

Scenario 2

Thor blitzes Thanos with the blunt edge of Stormbreaker that can maybe do some tiny cutting, Thanos shrugs it off, and beats the shit out of him.

Scenario 3

Thor engages in CQC, gets bullied by 2 superior opponents in CQC and has his head cut off

Now let's look at the one straightforward scenario I've been talking about since my first post. Thor is cautious with Stormbreaker due to what happened with Hela and Mjolnir and as such uses it to block, but Hela overwhelms him/throws two at once and Thanos engages him in CQC, as soon as one hit is landed by either he's done for as lightning cloak is turned off and Thanos can either turn it into a combo which is putting him down real quick or he's just out with Hela in which case she cuts his head off. Pretty simple.

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#329 Posted by ourmanuel (13756 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao

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#330 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

Here we go

X

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#331 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31059 posts) - - Show Bio

ooooooooooh boy

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#332 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Ay man, I’ve enjoyed this CAV. Thanks for a good debate

X

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#333 Edited by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

Only skimmed it and will re-read it to give a proper vote justice but that was a full blown glorious counter that did everything right, hitting all the right buttons and absolutely demolishing X.

It's over and I think we know who won...

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#334 Posted by Kevd4wg (14252 posts) - - Show Bio
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#335 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12277 posts) - - Show Bio
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#336 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacensolo77: You’ve made it obvious who you would vote for from the beginning lmao

X

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#337 Posted by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Well you've been thoroughly outmatched throughout the course of the debate, that isn't my fault, if you'd debated better and came back with devastating counters I would have voted for you but it remained the same, Kev held the upper hand. If you want to discount my vote due to "bias" that's perfectly fine, Kev will win regardless.

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#338 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea I'm definitely voting

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#339 Posted by ourmanuel (13756 posts) - - Show Bio

Just skimmed through, but kev did a good job. I’d have to re-read everything again,

This CaV will forever be remembered

Is the streak finally over? Has the solo king reached his solo limit?

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#340 Posted by ProfessorRespect (8828 posts) - - Show Bio

Right, well, here's my honest opinion.

Going into this matchup, I legit thought that Thor could easily win this. Like really, I was confused to why Kev was using two people who barely had any feats, and together were a strange match for Thor. This honestly felt like Kev had just gone for a joke CaV for laughs. It was only when the proper posts came in when this changed, lol

Anyway, I'm basing the winner on who debated better, not what character I like more (because LA characters in general aren't great, tbh) or what character would win in a matchup. With that said, I've got to go for Kevd over Xzone here. While it was close at the start, the last few posts really showed who had the more solid case, the better arguments, and who had a plan that would work. Kev's plan was simple, but very effective- I didn't see a way through it, and it seemed Xzone didn't either, as he sorta just went through the same gifs about 15 times, and repeated old arguments. With his last post, I felt like he didn't really focus on Kev's points most of the time, preferring to just add more of his, which gave him more room for his foe to counter him on a ton of points, which he did.

Kev's counters felt more direct and detailed. He didn't try to over complicate them, he just kept them simple, and effective. Xzone did a good job, but his constant redoing of arguments and evidence becomes very tiring to go through, and it was quite hard to glean the points he had. He did good, just not enough to convince me.

So yeah, @kevd4wg is the winner for me. I respect @xzone for giving it a good shot through, and I see plenty of room for improvement.

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#341 Posted by deactivated-5d2cf537b4a1c (3506 posts) - - Show Bio
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#342 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio
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#343 Posted by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Just noticed you accused me of lying in the post. That’s pretty low, dude.. I know we agreed to do this on the more or less salty side, but saying I lied?

It’s kinda disappointing honestly, but it is what it is I guess

X

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#344 Edited by Nucleon (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I am going to vote for XZone, and here's why: He got it way harder. No one here thinks Thor can beat 2-Gem Thanos (that he hasn't got here, I just realized) and Hela, at the same time. It's impossible. Okay, I must admit Kevd4wg's post were essential, clean, almost pure, masterpieces of streamlining, but I suppose I just like seeing XZone's doing his impersonation of pre-Cap Am Steve Rodgers - "I can do this all day". Sure you can, my Palooka friend.

One vote for XZone's big hairy balls, likely the only one he's going to get. =)

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#345 Edited by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon: Thanos doesn’t have the gems and I don’t take sympathy votes, so if that has anything to do with it, I’m not taking your vote

If not, thanks for the vote

X

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#346 Posted by Kevd4wg (14252 posts) - - Show Bio
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#347 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12945 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

No one here thinks Thor can beat 2-Gem Thano

Thanos has no gems here.

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#348 Posted by Nucleon (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: It is indeed a sympathy vote. Do with it what you want - it's the only one I'm giving here. If you don't want these things to happen, aim for more balanced CaVs.

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#349 Edited by xZone (10590 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: You said I lied to the voters about how long Hulk was down for after Thor’s punches. I said around 25 seconds, and that is true, but even if it wasn’t, I made a mistake, big deal. Saying I lied to the voters is simply over the line in my opinion

Edit: If you have more to say on this, please PM me

X

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#350 Posted by Nucleon (4130 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

No one here thinks Thor can beat 2-Gem Thano

Thanos has no gems here.

Sorry, as I read the posts as they come out it's been awhile. I guess I got confused with another, contemporary thread/CaV at around the same time.

And anyway it doesn't change much since I voted for xzone.