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#251 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@xzone: Yeah, if you feel like the salt is too much just lmk and I'll tone it down. I made it while a bit tired/cranky so I may have gone over the top

I mean, I haven't read through it yet, but I really don't care

X

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#252 Posted by jayc1324 (26432 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v, saltiest cav of all time

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#253 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

t4v, saltiest cav of all time

And it's not even a DC vs Marvel CAV. I guess @kevd4wg is just a toxic debater...

X

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#254 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP xZone.

X

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#255 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone said:
@kevd4wg said:

@xzone: Yeah, if you feel like the salt is too much just lmk and I'll tone it down. I made it while a bit tired/cranky so I may have gone over the top

I mean, I haven't read through it yet, but I really don't care

X

Just skimmed through most of it.. Gees, you pulled no punches xD.. Just don't be offended when it comes back at ya

X

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#256 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio
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#257 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1856 posts) - - Show Bio

Great rebuttal.

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#258 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazing, Tag after every post

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#259 Edited by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio
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#261 Posted by Matthew660 (1685 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: Good point about how sb doesn’t have the rope at the end.

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#262 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5263 posts) - - Show Bio

Kev went ham there.

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#263 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy shit that rebuttal though, pretty darn impressive. xZone is definitely gonna feel that.

Interesting.

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#264 Posted by Bayman007 (1968 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

Online
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#265 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Realized that videos weren't showing up under spoiler blocks so I fixed it

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#266 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15389 posts) - - Show Bio

great cav

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#267 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: When are you gonna post?

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#268 Posted by APEX_pretador (21349 posts) - - Show Bio
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#269 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: What if he gets depowered (by that I mean, he gets shit feats) instead? ...

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#270 Edited by APEX_pretador (21349 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

@apex_pretador: What if he gets depowered (by that I mean, he gets shit feats) instead? ...

Then Thanos scales down from him and so does hela

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#271 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio
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#272 Edited by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador said:
@thebestofthebest said:

@xzone: When are you gonna post?

When Thor gets another amp in the next film

Funny. I haven't been able to work on the CAV for the past week or so, but I'm almost done with the post now

X

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#273 Posted by APEX_pretador (21349 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: cool, now go vote on best fight scene thread

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#274 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#275 Edited by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

"You know I'm fifteen hundred years old. I've killed twice as many enemies as that, and every one of them would have rather killed me, but none succeeded. I'm only alive because fate wants me alive. Thanos is just the latest in a long line of bastards and he'll be the latest to feel my vengeance, fate wills it so."

Thor, god Of Thunder

"What were you the god of again?"

Thor Whispers:
Thor Whispers: "Thunder"

Opening Statement:

Throughout this post I will Confirm Thor's Four Advantages and that they turn in to a solid victory for Thor

-Thor's Speed/Skill Advantage

-Thor's Flight Advantage

-Thor's Lightning Advantage

-Thor's Weapon Advantage

Hela vs Thor:

Ah gif #2, as in one of 3 gifs you post of Thor vs Hela to suggest that Thor had a speed edge or really any kind of edge at all, but lets look at the entire fight because you know, that seems like a better judge of what's happening.

You mean a weak attempt at dodging the obvious speed gap? Just ignore scenes you don't like?

So what happens? Well the fight starts with Thor blocking Necroblades and trying to press some kind of advantage while he has ranged weapons and Hela doesn't

What? Hela's entire hax powerset is long range...

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This is the scene in question, and it looks more like Thor overcoming Hela's long-range advantage

but he can't land a single clean hit on Hela while Hela dodges it easily and throws him behind her, taking him out of the fight for a few seconds.

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Thor lunges at Hela and she dodges. That is not Hela throwing Thor, but a simple dodge. Thor was not taken out of the fight, he simply jumped past Hela, then immediately charged towards her again

As to wether Thor could get a clean hit or not, look at Thor's first sword swing; Thor was able to graze Hela with his sword, then look at the third sword swing; Thor was able to get a clean hit to Hela's face. With Stormbreaker, Thor would have cut Hela's head clean off

Then she's taken off guard by Valkyrie, allowing Thor to get close to her and block blades, but again Thor can't get a clean hit on Hela, only managing to affect her by lightning coming off of the sword.

Valkyrie fights Hela for about a second, then it cuts to this:

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My Opponent says that this scene here is not a speed/skill feat for Thor because all he's using is lightning

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But he claims that this here is a skill/speed feat for Hela when all she does is use a blade to increase her reach

Kev is using a double standard. In one of the scenarios both Hela and Thor had their hax, and the other only Hela had hers, but even if you use the one that is unfair for Thor, he still got 4 hits in before being tagged by the superior opponent. Thor is clearly superior in Speed/Skill

Then Hela after easily dodging him hitting it into the bifrost, pops up and overloads him with necroblades. Presumably the only reason the fight doesn't end right there is because Valkyrie is there to distract Hela long enough for Thor to get up before Hela chops his head off.

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Actually, the scene cuts to Loki, then to the Asgardian people

We don't actually see the scene in question, so we have to make an assumption about what happened

Val is struggling to get off the ground in the scene, then the next scene cuts back to Thor and Hela mid fight, then Thor throwing Hela towards Valkyrie

This leads me to the conclusion that Valkyrie didn't fight Hela while Thor was down as Kev says, but instead that Thor got back up, fought Hela, then threw Hela at Valkyrie like we see in the next scene

This would mean if Thor was somehow stabbed, he is perfectly capable of getting back up from stabs to fight Hela before she even gets to him

Next we have the gif you posted above, where Hela puts her arm forward to throw a necroblade and Thor grabs it and throws her. How doing that is outpacing Hela, I don't know. Furthermore, the throw does literally nothing, mid air Hela is fine throwing necroblades at Valkyrie.

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This part in particular is where the scene cuts back to, and as you can see, Thor was not affected much by Hela's attacks. He was up and ready to fight again in seconds. Thor then blocked a blade from Hela, then grabbed her before she could react. Thor didn't have a weapon at the time, but if he had Stormbreaker he could have cut Hela in half

Once again Hela tags Thor with a necroblade and the only reason she doesn't kill him is because she has to stop the ship from fleeing, but if she didn't, headless Thor.

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Thor Is talking to Heimdall when Hela attacks him with blades... Talk about being distracted, and that's besides the fact that Thor was still somehow able to react to two/three blades even when he wasn't looking until after he dodged the first one. Again, Thor didn't have a weapon here to block with, so he was forced to block his arm and failed. In this battle Thor has a weapon capable of blocking Hela's blades, so even if Thor was somehow distracted he can block/dodge blades

This battle makes it pretty clear, without Hela being distracted by so many factors, not only would Thor not have done as well, but he would have had his head chopped off.

Both of the times that Thor was actually tagged were due to him not having a good weapon to block with, and the only time that Thor was actually down for more than a few seconds was when Thor wasn't even looking, so yes, the battle does make it pretty clear

I mean, by the end of the fight, you can see how bad of shape him and Valkyrie are in while Hela is completely fine.

Yeah, because Thor didn't have a weapon to do much damage with... You act like Hela beating this Thor means she can beat Thor with Stormbreaker, and that simply isn't a fair comparison

Literally just one Necroblade put Thor out the entire time that Skurge decided to become good, without Skurge and the Ship, Hela could've easily killed Thor and Valkyrie. The only reason that Thor lasted as long as he did was because of how many things Hela had to deal with in the final battle and up until Surtur showed up, she was still winning, and easily at that.

Because Thor was distracted... The only time Hela put Thor down for more than 5-10 seconds with blades was when Thor was distracted and Hela got a clean hit

So what you're saying is, that before Thor could move his fist like a few inches to hit Hela, Hela pulled out a sword and easily gutted him, moving farther then Thor did.

Thor hits Hela 4 times, then Hela extends her reach and hits Thor once, but you say that Hela is faster. That's denial

But this somehow doesn't directly show that Hela was faster then Thor and is instead a "hax" showing?

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Let's show this in slo-mo just to reinforce the obvious

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Clearly Thor is controlling this encounter until Hela is able to extend her reach with a blade. I ask the reader to look closely. Hela's arm was not long enough to hit Thor. Had Hela not used a blade she would not have tagged Thor, or at least not as quickly as she did. However, even if you want to count Hela's blades as skill, Thor still got 4 good hits in on a superior opponent before being tagged

Firstly, as I mentioned earlier, the only reason Thor even got this close to tagging Hela was because Valkyrie distracted her, secondly the sword obviously didn't come close to hitting Hela. I mean, just look at this screenshot

See where the lightning is coming off of, that's where the sword is, and you can see it's like a foot away from Hela.

It's hard to tell from the image if Thor tagged her, but Valkyrie was not needed at all for Thor to get close

Additionally, Stormbreaker having longer reach doesn't mean that Hela would stay the same distance from Thor, that's not how combat works. If Thor has a weapon with longer reach, then Hela would just move back, it's simple. You're acting like Hela would approach Stormbreaker like it was the sword Thor had in Ragnarok.

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If Hela could have just moved back she should have done it here instead of getting hit in the face

Well, your one off gifs do make a convincing argument that Thor can throw Hela when Hela sticks her arm out basically into Thor's chest, but I'm really failing to see how this gif proves Thor is either faster or more skilled then Hela.

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Thor pretty clearly outpaced Hela here, man

I mean I don't see how using this is any different then me say posting this

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To say Hela is supremely faster and more skilled then Thor, but it's not, because it's a one off moment from their fight where Hela had put Thor in a disadvantageous position.

Hela dodged an attack from Thor.. So? Dodging is easier than straight up outpacing someone. If you're trying to say that Hela threw Thor, that's simply untrue. Link watch in slow mo. Hela never comes in to contact with Thor. All she does is a backflip to avoid Thor lunging at her

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Thor tags Hela twice in that encounter, and either one of them with Stormbreaker would be the end of Hela

So? At best he barely touches her helmet, but I honestly think that's just the lightning and even so Stormbreaker is not some Magical one-shot weapon.

The first Sword hit may have been more of a light hit, but the second Sword strike was dead on. Stormbreaker would have cut her head clean off

To one-shot Hela with Stormbreaker, Thor has to actually land a fatal blow, which he failed to do with Gungir or his swords, so why would he be able to do it with the bulkier Stormbreaker.

Inferior weapons to Stormbreaker. Stormbreaker has far better feats than anything that pierced Hela. Are you Really going to argue that Stormbreaker to the face is not going to kill Hela? That's ridiculous and you know it

Stormbreaker's blade didn't even need to come in to contact with an Outrider to cut it in half Link. Outriders were surviving gunfire, the Wakandan shield, and knife wounds, so the wooden handle of Stormbreaker casually cutting one in half is pretty impressive

Firstly, Thor wasn't doing shit. That fight was Thor + Valkyrie, which is the only reason Thor lasted as long as he did and even then, Thor and Valkyrie would have had their heads cut off if not for the ship leaving and Skurge deciding to be a hero. I have literally no idea how you decided Thor was controlling the fight. I posted Thor struggling to get up while Hela was completely fine, does that seem like "controlling the fight" to you much less Clearly controlling the fight.

Someone can control a portion of a fight and still lose. Thor was controlling the battle. Hela was on the defensive side of their encounters. You're twisting the subject here. I'm talking about Thor's speed and skill, then you pivot to "Well Hela won didn't she?" Yes, she won, but only because Thor couldn't put her down, and now he can

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Who's hitting more, who's getting hit more. Compare this to a boxing match. Sometimes a fighter is faster and more skilled than his opponent, but he still loses because he doesn't have the stamina (Or in this case the power) to win. That's the scenario here. Thor was faster and more skilled, but he couldn't finish the job, so saying "Hela won, so Thor wasn't controlling the fight" is inaccurate and doesn't apply to this current battle in the least

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Here's a comparable scenario:

Person A is attacked by Person B. Person B has a machete that can extend out of their hand mid combat, and happens to be far stronger than person A. Person A is able to hit Person B four times and block his attacks multiple times before getting stabbed by the machete. Would we say that Person B was more skilled? No! We Wouldn't! Why? Because Person A was able to get four hits in before being tagged by Person B who is stronger and has a weapon that increases his reach

I have made it very, very clear, that Thor is faster and more skilled, so I hope you will concede this point

Where he wasn't looking??? He literally blocked the blade before it, and Hela overloaded him, how the hell was he not looking. You posted it in your reaction section as him looking at the one before it and reacting to it so obviously he was looking. Like honestly what the hell. And Thor had a sword with lightning coming off of it to shield with. He blocked it with lightning before, saying "he didn't have a weapon" is a bit of a cop out when he was doing just fine with the lightning.

First, I want to point out that I very specifically asked Kev for One instance where Hela was controlling the fight. He hasn't done that, but what is even more important is Kev has still failed to show a CQC part of the fight where Hela was pressing an advantage. She never was. Thor was the one pushing his advantage the entire fight

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Thor clearly is not looking at the first blade. I assume Thor heard the first spear or sensed it somehow, but he most certainly wasn't looking at the blade. It's a lot easier to be overwhelmed when you don't see the first projectile

Literally every time Hela decided to overload Thor with necroblades(which she did 2/3 times once she did it once/figured out to do it), Thor got tagged.

Once when he wasn't looking as shown in the gif directly above

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And a second time when Thor didn't have an adequate weapon to block with. Stormbreaker is much larger than a sword, and has a larger surface area to block with. Thor tried to block with his arm here, but was hit by a spiked mace (Look closely and you will see Thor blocked the blade but the mace hit his shoulder). This again, will not be a problem when Thor can easily block the projectiles like this:

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Thor won't be affected at all by blades that he can block with Stormbreaker

And 15 seconds is not the entire time. Remember, that's the entire scene of Hela impaling the ship, Skurge seeing people getting killed and deciding to be a hero, Skurge jumping off the ship, Skurge killing the fodder one by one, and Hela deciding to kill Skurge. Both Valkyrie and Thor were down the entire time.

Quit using a scene where Thor wasn't looking for goodness sake. How desperate are you that you rely on a scene where Thor wasn't looking

Now imagine that during that time instead of Thor having all these distractions, he's ganged up 2 to 1. And as soon as he gets hit, which as we saw at the end of Ragnarok with Valk and Thor vs Hela, a 2v1 is very helpful, he's out because once Thanos starts pounding on him, he's not getting up before Hela cuts his head off.

First, Thanos will more than likely be dead from a Stormbreaker hit right off the bat, but even if your silly scenario somehow happened, Thor can just do this as he's done before:

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Last time Hela was hit by this blast she was off screen for over 2 minutes. Thanos lacks the feats to survive that, so really, ganging up on Thor like this is one of the worst things they could do

He could block with lightning just fine, he just failed to do so. Having a weapon won't magically make Thor incapable of being tagged through strategies that tagged him before, even through the great lightning cloak.

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Thor clearly has his arm up to block even when he was distracted. Stormbreaker would have no issue at all blocking this, so yes, his weapon will "magically" keep him from being tagged. Stormbreaker is a better shield than Thor's arm

Also, funny you should mention the cloak, Thor didn't have it activated in the gif above, and by the time he tried to activate it it was too late, so unless Thor is going to be talking to random people mid-fight, this won't happen again

The important thing I want You, the Reader to understand is that Thor was only put down for more than around 5 seconds once via blades, and that's when Thor de-activated his cloak and talked to Heimdall, then was hit while he wasn't paying attention or looking. Thor with Stormbreaker would easily block any of these blades by Hela, and that is clear

Plus, that close range argument is kinda bullshit, he got hit twice at range, which took him out for quite a while, and him and Valk were executing basically a hit and run strategy, which won't help him at all in this fight since he's outnumbered.

Interesting how you didn't bother to show these close range beat downs by Hela after Thor had his lightning amp. Probably because they don't exist. Do you really think Valkyrie aided Thor much here? Why even mention Val or Thanos? They are essentially non-factors

Thor won every single CQC encounter Skill/Speed wise

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To ignore that fact is denying what happened On-Screen

You're right, Hela did overpower Thor at the end of the gif, but there's also this thing called the middle of a gif, where Hela is clearly using speed/skill and not strength

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I see nothing but Thor hitting Hela with Gungnir, then Hela grabbing Gungnir after being tagged twice. Thor was controlling the fight, it's blatantly obvious

I'll get to Stormbreaker's piercing in a bit, but let's talk about this Stormbreaker > gungir thing. Firstly, in what world is Thor more familiar with Stormbreaker, much less "far more." He literally had it for like 15 minutes, whereas Gungir is the weapon of the Royal Family, obviously he's going to know how to use it. And like I said Stormbreaker and Gungir are different weapons. Just look at what Thor does with Gungir above, there's literally no way he's doing that with Stormbreaker, it's simply too bulky.

Mainly because Thor is skilled with Mjolnir and the two are very similar weapons, and because Thor seemed far more fluent with Stormbreaker

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Also, Thor throws Mjolnir underhanded sometimes, there is no reason he can't do the same with Stormbreaker which would have the very same affect Gungnir did

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Underhanded throw

I'm not convinced it would honestly.

Well you're wrong

Even if somehow Asgardians being bullet proof is an unpopular opinion on the vine, at the very least there armor can no-sell it. Like Sif's armor to a shotgun blast in AoS or Thor in AoU to an assault rifle round

This I can agree with

Now, the best piercing durability feat Thanos had was shrugging off assault rifle fire, and there is reason to believe his piercing durability might not stack up with his other durability considering the scene with Gamora's blades. However, if you look at how deep Stormbreaker went into Thanos, it's not as far as you might think.

1) Thor wasn't trying to Kill Thanos. He wanted him to suffer

2) Thor clearly didn't hit Thanos as hard as he could have. We know this because of how casually Thor was able to push Stormbreaker deeper in to Thanos' chest Here. He wanted Thanos to have a slow death

3) Stormbreaker has better piercing feats than piercing Thanos

A)

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Stormbreaker pierces the side of this Outrider ship

These ships tanked re-entry, hitting the ground at high speeds, and everything the Wakandan Air-force could dish out. Notice at the beginning of the gif you see two Air-force ships attacking the outrider ship to the left and doing 0 damage, and the same thing when Thor flies towards another of the ships. We are told that Wakandan hand held weapons can destroy a tank, so the Air-force is definitely dishing out more than a regular firearm; These ships were no-selling that, and Stormbreaker pierced through like they were made of cotton candy

B)

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You can see clearly that these Outriders were breaking apart just by coming in contact with Stormbreaker. These Outriders were able to shake off gunfire, so I don't see why a firearm would>Stormbreaker

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In all honesty, if it only did that much to Hela, she would have no problem shrugging it off. And before you bring up the IG beam, the Russos confirmed it wasn't that big for Stormbreaker because Stormbreaker was made of the same properties as the gauntlet. Overall I don't see why Stormbreaker pierces significantly harder then Gungir, as it also pierced Asgardian armor to the same depth which has the same level feats as Stormbreaker, and it couldn't even leave a Mark on Hela when she blocked it with her gauntlets, so why would Stormbreaker.

1) Hela was still pierced Through by a regular Asgardian Sword. Either she has a weakness to Asgardian weapons or just has weak piercing feats, and either way, Stormbreaker cuts her head off or cuts her in half

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2) I don't recall the Russo's saying that. The IG slowed down Stormbreaker. Deal with it

3) All of that besides, why exactly is that not a feat for Thanos? Stormbreaker has better feats as I've already mentioned

Stormbreaker would pierce more effectively than Gungnir because it has a blade, and because the lightning emitting from it can casually cut Outriders in half

Yeah I think she will, with like minimal difficulties. Hela also liked to dodge a lot. She never blocked Thor's swords, only dodged them, and she dodged Gungir as well. Blocking is not a set thing for Hela to do.

What the actual... So you think Hela can just put her Arm up to block Stormbreaker's blade and it won't affect her? Really?

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Stormbreaker has feats for piercing as I've already noted above. Hela can not tank nor survive a direct hit from Stormbreaker. What piercing durability feats does Hela have on par with Stormbreaker's feats?

When did Hela dodge Gungnir?

Firstly, I never did, though forcing Thor into a position where he is outmuscled is part of skill, but secondly, it doesn't matter if you're discussing speed and skill. Hela managed to stomp Thor before he had allies and lightning each and every time, partially due to being able to abuse physicals. You can't just ignore that and pretend it wasn't a stomp because we're talking about speed and skill. Battles are more then just boiling down to individual elements. Hela is extremely good at abusing physicals and working it into combat, for which Thor has failed to stop on 3 different occasions.

All of that would be true (close enough) if Thor didn't have his Lightning amp or Stormbreaker in this battle. The entire point of my Speed/Skill claims is that Thor was faster and more skilled than Hela in combat

Kev doesn't seem to understand this at all, so I'm just gonna make a little note to You, the Reader

Thor showed that he was more Skilled and Faster than Hela in their fights. I'm simply showing that Thor already had an advantage in their fight, and that he can use that advantage more effectively now that he has power to rival Hela's. Kev is saying that speed and skill don't matter because Hela was able to overpower him, but the truth is she was only able to overpower Thor because of her power advantage at the time, and Hela now lacks that advantage because Thor has his lightning amp and Stormbreaker

Here's a comparison:

Person A has a Speed and Skill advantage over Person B, but Person B has a large power and strength advantage. Person A is able to get quite a few hits in, but Person B's Power and Strength are able to overcome that Skill and Speed

Now they have a rematch. Since then, Person A has acquired a one-shot weapon and greater Strength, and Power. Person B may have been able to overcome the speed/skill advantage via Strength and Power before, but now, their Power is equal or at least closer to it, so the Speed and Skill advantage is a major factor, not to mention the one-shot weapon

That's all I'm arguing. Person A is of course Thor and Person B is Hela. Person B may have been able to overcome that Speed/Skill gap with Strength/Power before, but since Person A is comparable in Strength/Power now, the Speed/Skill shines through, on top of a one-shot weapon

This is basically like plugging your ears and saying "nananananana" to avoid arguments. This is literally the only time Thor ever landed a hit on Hela with a bladed weapon, despite trying to on 9 other different occasions by my count. And he only did it with a move that cannot be done with Stormbreaker. He tries to throw Stormbreaker that way and he's going to hit Hela with the flat edge on the top, which will do nothing.

Well, someone is plugging their ears to avoid feats, but it isn't me. If you're claiming that is the side that will hit Hela

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Look closely, the bladed edge of Stormbreaker extends to the top of the Axe, so it would be piercing just like it did these ships

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Clearly hitting someone with the top of this would end with them being stabbed by the top edge (Top Right Corner)

Nice try though

And that doesn't change the fact that Hela absolutely dominated him. I never claimed this was skill or speed, I was simply showing just how easily and just how hard Hela was stomping Thor. Thor can have all the speed and skill advantages you want to argue(he doesn't), but it still wouldn't change what happened here.

Ah, so you're ready to admit Thor has the skill and speed advantages now? Hela absolutely dominated a Thor after he got 10ish hits in, who also lacked two of the amps he has now in this fight

Wut? For one, he only attacked that fast because he had 2 swords. Guess how many Stormbreakers Thor has? Secondly, Stormbreaker is not as fluid or quick a weapon as a sword. I mean the gif you keep posting with the outriders, just compare it to the gif of Thor attacking Hela.

Well, Thor was fighting 5 outriders from different directions. He's obviously going to be using the weapon a little differently than against one opponent, but that doesn't mean he can't use it just as easily

It's obvious which one is much faster with their weapon. And with the swords Thor is doing repeated attacks on one place, with Stormbreaker he gets to move with the axe, which would make it more fluid. Plus, Hela is not going to see Stormbreaker has more reach and stay in the same place lol. That doesn't make any sense.

If Hela could have gone back further she would have instead of being hit in the face twice

It's not like Thor has shown any great amount of skill to make any skilled opponent as far below him as you are making out Thanos to be, come on now.

He has, actually. I posted Thor's skill feats and you failed to post anything for Thanos besides outskilling Hulk who he was stronger than to begin with

I'll take killing, hax, and having to use HF once vs hundreds of soldiers over taking a long time to beat 3. If Thor was actually skilled, he wouldn't have taken as long. Furthermore, I'm not sure why you're posting solo feats for Thor when Hela has outskilled him on screen. like in the gif I posted just above. Even so, Hela was still easily fodderizing them in H2H as well like here

<sigh> So using hax on fodder is now impressive?

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This is out-skilling

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This is called slaughtering fodder via hax/strength, except unlike Hela, Thor doesn't get hurt by the fodder he fights

That draws an interesting parallel to Thor's feat as here Hela lol stomps Asgardians in H2H in seconds, whereas Thor struggled for quite an amount of time and sure you can say tHoR wASn'T tRYiNg tO KilL tHeM, but if his feat was truly as good as Hela's, Thor would've replicated it, but just pulled his punches. I'll use your wording here, anyone who isn't bias can see Hela's feat is better.

Erm... Yeah, but Thor wasn't trying to kill them... That makes a massive difference... I mean..

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Does this look like skill you to you? Honestly, stop confusing power and skill for goodness sake. For a debater of your caliber I don't know how you can so blatantly confuse Power with Skill. I wasn't gonna lowball, but yeah, It's getting kinda ridiculous now. Hela isn't nearly as skilled as Thor, she even had to use her power and strength against Hogan Here. Hogun is skilled, but Thor is more skilled

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This is not using superior Power/Strength like Hela did, but simply out-skilling them. The reason NOT killing them is so important is because it shows the difference between Skill and Power/Strength. This just adds to the fact that Thor Out-Skilled Hela until she overpowered him

Furthermore, being able to use their "hax" is skil, and Hela showed fantastic use of her necroblades during her fight against Asgard's army.

See this is where the root of the problem is. I'm talking about skill for H2H combat. You're talking about power and hax, and that basically is an admission by you that Thor is more skilled

Just look at the 2 gifs you posted

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Do those really look like the same speed, skill, and precision to you?

Well, one of them is attacking one opponent in one direction. The other one is attacking 5 opponents in 5 directions.. Tbh, the Stormbreaker feat looks as or even more impressive

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He like grazes her at best. You do realize that Stormbreaker isn't an automatic one-shot right? It doesn't matter how potent it is, it has to land a mortal wound on Hela for Hela to not just easily heal it off.

The first hit, maybe, the second one is a clear hit to the face. How is a slash to the face not a mortal wound again?

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Only when Hela's armor was already overextended due to shooting the necroblade. This is legitimately maybe the only time in all their fights where Thor was shown to be faster then Hela. Literally THE ONLY TIME

Actually, I've presented multiple instances where Thor was outpacing Hela, but one is better than none which is what you have presented. Also... Are you saying one necroblade is now enough to make Hela vulnerable to an attack? That makes this easier than it was before. Thor could just wait for Hela to attack, then kill her with Stormbreaker

It's the same gif OVER and OVER again. One moment that happened without context is not an argument. Plus, here instead of having Valkyrie helping Thor get into these advantageous positions, which is the only reason that Hela didn't destroy Thor easily, yet now Hela has Thanos. The positions are completely reversed from a battle where Hela was winning against 2, one of which was Thor to where now Hela has the help and it's a lot more useful then Valkyrie. What does Thor have to compensate? An axe, that's it.

Well, when someone is denying what happened On-Screen I show them again. It shows the audience that you are more or less in denial. Thanos is getting one-shot here, stop acting like he's a crutch to lean on. Valkyrie did just about nothing, and Thor was distracted trying to save the Asgardians. Also, labeling a King's Weapon as "an axe" is funny, considering that "axe" One-shot a guy who had the completed IG

How is using lightning to ragdoll Hela outpacing? Literally the only speed in this gif is Thor failing to tag Hela while Hela was on the ground and Thor couldn't tag her at all with his sword.

Yeah, but he did...

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Tagged Twice

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Tagged Four times

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Tagged twice (First when he throws Gungnir, then when he hits Hela with a swing from Gungnir)

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Tagged

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Hard to tell if it's a direct tag, but in the same circumstance Stormbreaker would have tagged Hela

Necroblade:

I want you to count to 15. That's a long ass time. For reference the entire encounter in the bifrost where Hela almost cuts Thor's head off is 6 seconds. If Thor gets tagged and put down for 15 seconds by a necroblade that only barely touched him, he's as good as dead in this fight. Hell, the only reason he didn't die right then was Valkyrie, now there's Thanos helping Hela.

Yes, it is a long time, but it was probably 5-10 seconds because it cuts back to them mid combat. That's besides the fact that Thor will be blocking with Stormbreaker now, so blades won't be a problem. Also, for consistency sake, how many times did Hela try to hit Thor and how many times did she fail?

After Re-Watching the scene. Here are the Necroblade numbers:

Attempts: 8

Blocked: 6

Hits: 2 (One of them was when Thor wasn't looking)

So, we have one real hit out of 8 attempts. Doesn't seem like a very nice track record for Hela, and that's while Thor didn't have a real weapon to block with which he now has. You still want to argue that Thor is gonna be put down by blades?

>blocks the first one which you even used as a reaction feat>Wasn't even looking

like wut? Hela clearly just overwhelmed him.

Already addressed this

Thor could block them with large amounts of lightning. And if he's spending the whole battle just blocking necroblades, he's not winning. If he does this then Thanos, just starts pounding on him. But anyway, talking about the feats posted, the first is dodging, the second and third are the same and he literally fails to block it, so only the 3rd one is viable. But if Thor is trying to block it with Stormbreaker then Hela can just shoot 2 at once with him, which he could only block due to lightning. Like I keep mentioning, nothing is just a clear advantage, every amp comes with a downside.

Stormbreaker Is a disadvantage now? Ok... Lightning comes off of Stormbreaker too, you know

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Same effect, just a better defensive weapon

So what happens when Thor throws Stormbreaker at Thanos? Since then he has no counter to being knocked out of the sky, and then immediately killed by Hela.

Well, if Thor throws Stormbreaker from the other side of the Bifrost bridge I don't see how Hela will reach Thor. Thor can block a few blades without Stormbreaker like he has On-Screen

Thor got a lightning amp and Stormbreaker. Neither really changes how utterly and completely Hela destroyed him in H2H.

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The heck? Lightning and Stormbreaker don't change the H2H battle? Come on Kev, let's be reasonable here. Hela was not overpowering Thor like this post amp

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Hela was getting overpowered by Thor

The Take Away From This:

Kev has horribly failed to prove Hela is as fast or as skilled as Thor. This matters because now Thor's power is on par with Hela's, so she can't use that as a crutch to get around Thor's superior Speed/Skill, and he has a one-shot weapon to block blades and to kill Hela with

Kev has failed to prove Hela can beat Thor, while on the other hand I have proven that Thor beats Hela

Thor vs Thanos:

Was it here?

Because here it looks like Hulk was totally embarrassing Thor, but...

No, not really. But someone was definitely getting embarrassed

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Thor has enough time to casually say, "What's the matter with you? I told them we were friends"

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When Thor was serious he hit Hulk twelve times before being tagged

And after that part with the lightning amp, we didn't see even close to enough of a fight to say "who embarressed who" much less to say that stomping Hulk isn't impressive. Hulk physically bullied Thor on screen and Thanos physically bullied him on screen. It's pretty obvious if Thanos gets his hands on Thor, it's over.

Thor hit Hulk twice Post-Amp, and both times Hulk was down for around 25 seconds, and was dazed after that

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Physicals has little to do with it. Hulk was stronger than Thor, but Thor casually batted him off with Lightning. Thor was Stomping Hulk before he had Stormbreaker, and Hulk is fodder to current Thor, so again, Thanos beating up Hulk is nothing impressive

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If Thanos somehow did start ground pounding Thor, he's just going to get hit by Lightning

And with Necroblades that keep Thor out of the fight for 15 seconds flying around, that's not a hard thing to do.

Yeah no. Those blades kept Thor down 5-15 seconds (Likely closer to 5). Plus Thor blocked 6/7 of the legit blade throws, and that's when Thor didn't have such a good weapon to block with

So it's not important that Thor is ridiculously outclassed in physicals? By not one, but both of the fighters he's facing.

Not really. Most of Thor's attacks are ranged, he has a one-shot weapon, and if he gets ground pounded he can call lightning down on himself which has already kept Hela off-screen for 2 minutes

Are you seriously arguing that Thanos couldn't react to Hulk? I'm sorry, but that is some complete Bullshit. Maw even said, "let him have his fun", and then Thanos did more of a blitz against him(not actually a blitz) then Thor could even dream of doing against Hela.

I'm providing an either or scenario, which is why I said, "It's possible Thanos was intentionally Tanking Hulk's punches, but that would only reinforce the idea that Thanos wouldn't try to dodge Stormbreaker"

and then Thanos did more of a blitz against him(not actually a blitz) then Thor could even dream of doing against Hela.

And? Thanos was stronger so he was able to put Hulk down. Thor was weaker than Hela so he couldn't put her down, but that isn't the case anymore

You don't? Do you like literally think Thor will never get tagged?

That's not what I said. I said I don't need to argue Thor can physically beat Thanos because Stormbreaker will do the work for him, though yes, Thor probably won't be tagged by Thanos because Thanos will have an axe in his chest or head long before he hits Thor

  1. Show me Thor holding back post hitting him with the War Hammer
  2. Show me where Thor destroyed Hulk remotely to the same degree as Thanos did, I mean come on dude

1) Here you go

2)

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Yeah, but here's the thing, once Thanos started hitting, Hulk never got a single hit in, he was too fast and too skilled to be hit, unfortunately for Thor, he can't say the same.

1) Thor's first hammer hit almost KO'd the Hulk. If Thor had actually started beating Hulk down he could have won, but he held back

2) Thor hit the Hulk twelve times before Hulk could hit Thor again... Thanos hit Hulk about the same amount. The only reason Thanos' looks more impressive is because he is stronger than the Hulk, so he KO'd him, but that has nothing to do with Speed or Skill

3) Thor didn't have his amp yet. Had he hit Hulk with 12 lightning amped punches Hulk would be down

So Thanos moving at the very least comparable speeds to Thor means nothing despite the fact you're trying to argue that Thor will blitz him? I mean you say Thanos is just firing a blast from the IG, but he is recovering from a blast, standing up, and firing a blast, while all Thor has to do is throw a weapon. Which one of those sounds faster to you? Plus since you pointed it out, it does seem like Thor needs some time to throw Stormbreaker. He does that here, and Hela shoots a necroblade into him, which as we've established is the end of the fight.

Comparable speeds? Sure, but Thor fights long range while Thanos doesn't, and Thor has a one-shot weapon. Also, Thor doesn't require more time to casually throw Stormbreaker, but an over the head swing is probably a little slower. Hela's necroblades are doing nothing to Thor since he has

1) A weapon to block with

2) Speed to react

The Take Away From This:

My Opponent has failed to prove Thanos is anything more than a non-factor in this fight. Thor can one-shot him right off the bat, but even if Thanos started ground pounding Thor, he can simply be batted off like the Hulk was via lightning, or Thor can call down a lightning strike to fry him

General Counters:

Flight:

Firstly, you do realize that only like 1/4 of Stormbreaker's edge is sharp right?Not like the entire blade.

When has Thor actually missed with the blade? It seems his timing is pretty on point or he's aiming the blade via telekinesis

Secondly, Thor absolutely had the chance to bullrush.

Yes, I know that. That's why I said he bullrushed...

Having to stop Kurse from leaving the Dark World doesn't mean he only fight him in the air, like what?

Thor had to get to them quickly before they left

Plus, what did that bullrush do other then take him from a distance into CQC.

Nothing, Kurse backhanded him

And furthermore, while he did bullrush he never did what you're claiming, stay in the sky and rain down lightning, which he had the opportunity to do instead of just bullrush. Reviewing some stuff, I'll concede that Thor uses bullrushes, mostly as an opener to fights, but he never, never has just stayed in the sky and rained down lightning like you're saying. The Destroyer fight is the closest thing he's ever done to that

Yeah, because he couldn't levitate, but he's done it with Stormbreaker

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Oh look, Thor is in the sky away from lightning, perfect opportunity to keep his distance and rain down lightning, what does he do? Oh yeah, uses a bullrush to get into CQC.

Again, couldn't levitate at the time. You claimed Thor didn't use his flight in battle, period, so don't change your request now and act like I didn't offer the evidence you asked for before

"While he is the only one who posses that ability, he's never abused it in the past. Not against Kurse, not against Malekith, not against Surtur at the start of Ragnarok, not even against Loki. Every time he fights a brute whose on the ground, he ends up doing just that, fighting them on the ground. The Destroyer could be a possible exception, but that instance has been proven to not be the norm time and time again."

That's what you said before, and I showed multiple instances of Thor using flight in combat

Look at that, does Thor fry Malekith from lightning in the sky? Nope, he lands on the ground and hits him with lightning there. It's almost like you're debunking your own points

Again, Thor couldn't levitate at the time, but once again, he does it with Stormbreaker

He's literally moving toward Thanos in this instance. Thor has never need to land to use lightning, that's never even been implied, Thor just doesn't rain down lightning from the sky.

Well..

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Just gonna accept your concession on this point now

First of all, this is once again you labeling something that doesn't even resemble a blitz a blitz, but once again this is Thor moving into CQC and keeping within Surtur's range, literally proving my point once again.

You claimed Thor doesn't use his flight in combat against people who can't fly. Don't shift the goal post after I dedicated a part of my post to explaining it. Thor can and does use his flight in combat

Oh look, Thor is at a distance, and chooses to close the distance into H2H. Thus far, literally every single instance you've posted supports the fact that Thor won't stay at a distance and rain down lightning. Even in Ragnaork, he fought Hela and the Asgardian soldiers primarily in CQC.

Once again, you said Thor doesn't use flight in combat. I proved he does, so now you're shifting the goal post. Also, no... Thor used ranged lightning primarily

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Firstly let's look at Stormbreaker

Ok

See that top part of it, the part that Thor would hit something with if he tried to bullrush. That wouldn't impale Wonder Woman, much less Thanos and Hela, so yeah, they can shrug off a bullrush.

Slight problem with that

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That "flat" top you're speaking of has a blade on it (Top Right)

Secondly, just because Thor can fly at a speed while just trying to fly forward does not mean he can instantly accelerate to that speed targeting a specific point like he's doing in this battle.

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Thor will be charging from the opposite side of the Bifrost bridge, so he has plenty of time

Ah, we have reached the ultimate cop out, PIS. Waiti and co obviously put a lot of thought into the final battle, how Hela was always distracted when Thor was out so it wouldn't be PIS, how Thor could block Necroblades, but Hela overwhelmed him so it wasn't PIS, but now we're talking about PIS because guess what, Thor doesn't fight the way you think. You say PIS, I say what Thor has done and continues to do on screen.

Let's just ignore the evidence then I suppose... Thor and Hela fought for about a 2 minutes (Including the balcony palace scene) and in that time Thor used two lightning bolts on Hela. Is that really not enough for you?

Thor used lightning bolts twice on Hela, both times with plenty of build up, it's obvious his powerful bolts have some effort, unless the second time Thor summoned the massive bolt he was just standing there chilling and waited to summon the bolt?

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This was effortless for Thor. All he did was focus his lightning a little longer than usual. Also, why would you say Thor was "Just standing there chilling and waited to summon a bolt"? He was talking to Hela, then Surter rose out of the ground, Hela yelled "No", Valkyrie stabbed her, then Thor used a lightning bolt. Thor probably waited a second till Valkyrie was clear, otherwise he'd hit his teammate. The evidence that Thor can use lightning from the sky instantly is undeniable

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Lightning bolts summoning around Thor after he lands

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Proof Thor can use lightning mid bullrush? Especially mid mach 1 bullrush?

Sure

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Already went over this feat, but the powerful bolt only destroyed the balcony, Hela and Thanos aren't standing on top of each other

If they try to ground pound Thor they will be

It's funny, you chastise me for using a script later, but whatever. Anyway, you can clearly tell it's just the ice collapsing on itself after a short period of time. Firstly, the ice layer is extremely thin and ice isn't very durable, so the output isn't remotely comparable to the same size in say a city. But anyway, the ice was collapsing, but parts that were supported were not collapsing

I don't care if you use the script at all, but when you use it in a case where it's obviously incorrect, I'll debunk it

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The shockwave from Thor's attack is clearly destroying all of this (Look at the towers falling in the distance and background) The script just confirms what we saw

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I want one instance of Thor sitting in the sky using lightning strikes

One

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Thor was bullrushing Thanos at the time, but this is pretty close to what Thor will be doing in this battle

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Thor in general uses lightning from a distance

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And now Thor can levitate

Because they were on the bifrost? How the hell were those blades going to reach them, like do you even think about some of the stuff you say? Anyway, as soon as Hela sees a target up in the air and out of reach like Giant Surtur, guess what she does? Hint: It's what you said was OOC.

There is no reason Hela couldn't have used those blades like she did stopping the Asgardian's from leaving on their ship, but again, Thor won't just be sitting in the air waiting to be hit. He will fly in the air, use some lightning to daze his opponents, then blitz them

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Once again, Thor's lightning has already incapacitated Hela, so it will be able to again

So Thanos is going to see something that's already killed him(and before you say we're using pre-IW versions, you're arguing Thor has a bunch of experience with Stormbreaker so...) and tank it again? Sure Thanos liked to tank stuff, but he's not a moron.

One of the reasons Thor is skilled with Stormbreaker is because it's very similar to Mjolnir. There is not one time (besides his fight with Hulk where he was blitzing) that Thanos tried to dodge an attack. Thanos tries to tank things IC, but again, even if Thanos tried to dodge Stormbreaker can just follow him

Leaving Thor exposed to catch a necroblade and the battle to be over

You do realize Thor blocked 6/8 Necroblades without a weapon, right? Throwing Stormbreaker at Thanos will take a few seconds. Thor can block 1-2 Necroblades without Stormbreaker just fine

Hit him and chop his head off? Seems like it would do the trick

From across the Bifrost bridge?

The Take Away From This:

Thor uses his flight advantage in combat consistently, and that advantage will aid him in blitzing Thanos and Hela, avoiding attacks, and combat maneuverability

Lightning/Weather Manipulation:

And secondly, this is gonna be a really crazy, novel idea. But Holes can be underwater. Wild I know, it's almost like there's these things called trenches in the ocean or something. But that would probably be stupid.

So Hela fell in to a hole in the water, then sat in there for over a minute. Is that what I'm hearing?

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Hela was incapacitated, stop reaching

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You act like Hela was launched hundreds of feet under water. She wasn't. Thor hit Hela with lightning and destroyed the bifrost bridge, then Hela fell in to the water. That would cause Hela to fall maybe 5-10 feet in the water, and that shouldn't cause her to be stuck. Besides all of that, what you're claiming is NOT shown On-Screen, hence it really isn't accurate

Note to the reader: My Opponent is clearly reaching to avoid Thor's ability to Incapacitate Hela via lightning. Thor can KO Hela and Thanos with lightning, and it's obvious

Pain is not at all Koed. Thor felt pain when Hela choked him, guess that's the end of the battle, gg. Furthermore, that showing of pain itself makes it clear she wasn't koed as she was clearly conscious. So as they say

Funny, but I said Hela didn't look fine because you said this: "This blast simply BFRed Hela. If you look at the Ragnarok script, it's shown that the blast hit her into a fissure that was created by Surtur where she was fine, but BFRed."

So... You played yourself? No?

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Hela was not fine. She was KO'd or incapacitated. If she were fine, she would have launched out of the water or even a hole she fell in to like this

Hela was incapacitated, deal with it

Yeah she was stuck in a giant fissure. I thought that was pretty obvious, it was basically BFR. I mean, Thor was taken out for a minute when Skurge became a hero long before this even when Valkyrie was helping him, so....

How was she stuck? Show me? More importantly, show the audience. You're reaching. Bottom line: This is NOT shown On-Screen

Seriously.. If she just fell in a hole she should have been able to launch her self out in far less time than a minute

Hela was KO'd

Yeah no shit he can call down lightning without dragonfang, however he's channeling the lightning directly into Hela through dragon fang, basically Thor can't replicate this kind of damage against Hela normally

Doesn't look like it On-Screen, and even if he was, so what? He's replicated the same kind of thing on Hela before

(which also hints at the blast on the palace being abnormal)

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You're logic does make me laugh

"Feat you don't like"

"Another feat backs that feat up"

"Second feat must be an abnormality"

Right... Thor can KO Hela with lightning, stop freaking reaching it's getting ridiculous

My favorite part of outpacing Hela was how Hela was fighting 2+ opponents, but was winning the fight without much difficulty

Lmao

>Outpacing

>Overpowers two opponents

Nice

The thing on the bridge isn't remotely close to what happened on the palace, which in and of itself is speculation. He's never replicated that kind of bolt.

When has Thor needed to replicate that kind of bolt? Why do you expect Thor to do something he hasn't needed to. Thor has used lightning bolts from the sky 6 times in this fashion On-Screen

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I just don't know how much more you can ask for here. Thor calls lightning down from the sky to hit a target directly all the time

Literally the fact he had any effort like jumping down is evidence and Thor took a good amount of time to do this one. Like do you think Thor was just chilling until he wanted to use the bolt?

No. Thor was at least 10 feet away from Hela, so it makes sense for him to jump over to where she was. Also, Thor did have to wait at least a few seconds or he would hit Valkyrie Link. Again, you're reaching for an argument. Thor can KO Hela with lightning, and it doesn't require major effort

That's one explanation out of like 10. We can't tell what's happening, the only reason you're saying it's cloak is to support you're argument. I mean I see Stormbreaker before he goes in, that means it has to be Stormbreaker right? And furthermore, look at the patter, that'd be a really, really weird way for Thor to fly to destroy it.

Not really

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In both of these images we see the same thing: Lightning emitting from Thor's body that is destroying the object he's flying through. It's obvious the Cloak was destroying these ships

So now Thor's lightning blasts operate at different levels. Well that's interesting.

That's how it's always been

What's more powerful, a direct blast, or indirect feed off, gee I wonder

Well, one of them has feats that I have provided, and one of them doesn't/you haven't provided any, so you don't have to wonder any longer

Neither of which he managed to pull off mid combat when he had ample opportunity.

Thor used lightning strikes 4 times in Ragnarok and two of those times were on Hela... How many more instances are required?

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Which doesn't change the fact you're arguing Thor will get rid of Stormbreaker ASAP to take care of Thanos and that he easily got overwhelmed, while outnumbering Hela I might add.

Thor can block 1-2 blades in the 5-10 seconds it will take Stormbreaker to finish off Thanos

He seemed pretty well off, and it's worth noting that Thor was also just getting up, meaning he was taken down by his own punch, which is kinda pathetic ngl.

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This is just getting pathetic...

Link After Thor hit Hulk they were both blown back. You can clearly see in the video that all Thor did was bend his legs when he was pushed back, and all he did in the gif you posted was slowly rise up. Thor wasn't hurt at all, man, you're just reaching

Well, I spelled it out for you, which you somehow couldn't understand. Thor staggered Hulk with normal punches, but couldn't do shit to Hela, so if Hulk could get over lightning punches, it won't be a problem for Hela, especially since Thor will never land a hit that clean on Hela.

Your scaling is blowing my mind, but sure, Hela is more durable than Hulk, at least in blunt durability

The Take Away From This:

Thor has clearly shown the ability to incapacitate Hela via lightning, and can easily KO Thanos with it as well due to his lack of energy durability feats

Stormbreaker:

It's not like Stormbreaker spins incredibly fast, Hela can just grab the vast majority of the blade that doesn't have the blade.

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Doubtful for a number of reasons:

1) Hela hasn't shown the speed to do so. If she could just casually catch every weapon Thor threw she would have caught gungnir

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Turns out Hela doesn't catch weapons unless they are conveniently thrown to her hand

2) Stormbreaker has lightning on it and around it (Kinda like it's own mini cloak). That lightning alone was cutting the outriders in half just from the wooden side of Stormbreaker Link looking to the left in slow motion you can see the wooden end of Stormbreaker cutting an outrider clean in half. That's more than enough piercing power to hurt Hela if she tried to catch Stormbreaker

3) All of that is besides the fact that Thor can just call Stormbreaker back to himself or move it when Hela reaches her arm out to catch, and before you mention he didn't with Mjolnir, Thor was in shock, he had never seen someone stop Mjolnir before plus catching Stormbreaker will be much harder, if not impossible, due to the blade and lightning

Foreshadowing to later in Xzone's post where he contradicts this

Oh look, that was quicker then I expected, literally contradicting yourself in the next counter. Remember what I said about Stormbreaker earlier, if Thor tries to throw Stormbreaker like this, it aint piercing shit, just leaving him defenseless.

I was referring to throwing Stormbreaker underhanded, like I said. Stormbreaker would still be spinning, but simply thrown underhand

He literally does not. Stormbreaker is inherently an unwieldy weapon. Look at how he's fighting, moving with each swing, it's not the same as the swords where he can put on pressure.

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Moving with each swing.. I wonder why? Probably because he's facing opponents from multiple directions. Stop reaching, Kev

So Thanos is going to do what he already did that led him to death because reasons?

You expect Thor to let Hela grab Stormbreaker the same way she did Mjolnir, yet Thanos tanking an attack like he did all through infinity war is where you draw the line? Double Standard

Thanos vs Iron-man Thanos opts to tank all but one attack from Stark, and I'm not sure you can even say it was a dodge when Thanos grabbed the blade Iron-man tried to stab him with

Thanos vs Hulk I believe Thanos dodges one punch from Hulk in the entire fight

When Nebula attacked Thanos he opted to tank/block the hits

When Stormbreaker was flying towards him he tried to block/tank it

Do you see a pattern here? Thanos blocks/tanks in combat in character. He doesn't dodge, he tanks or blocks. If you want to argue "well thanos knows what Stormbreaker will do now" How about I just argue Thor knows lightning can KO Hela, so he flies in the sky and spams lightning for the entire fight. I can't do that because that's not in character

As for the telepathic Stormbreaker control(lol), when one is being chased by Stormbreaker, the other just beats the Hela out of Thor, pretty simple.

Being chased? They will be dead in seconds.. But even if they weren't, Thor is on the other side of the Bifrost, dude. You act like Thor will throw Stormbreaker in CQC. Thor throws Stormbreaker when he is far away from his opponents

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Thor isn't just going to throw Stormbreaker away, then fight a physically stronger opponent H2H. He's going to kill Thanos, then call Stormbreaker back to himself to fight Hela

The Take Away From This:

My opponent has failed to prove that Hela or Thanos can survive a hit from Stormbreaker. He has also failed to prove that they can avoid or dodge Stormbreaker. Thor can either one-shot them both in CQC, or throw Stormbreaker from across the bifrost bridge, eliminate one of his opponents, then fight the second one CQC after he has called Stormbreaker to himself. Either will work because of the arguments I have provided and because my opponent has failed to provide sufficient counters

Scenario Counters:

Scenario One:

Thanos legitimately didn't even know Thor was there, what kind of dumbass statement is this? Like how did you even get Thanos had the chance to react

You asked how Thor blitzed Thanos

The definition of Blitz is a sudden attack

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Usain bolt can run at 28mph, even if we assume Hela isn't faster then him(outpacing Thor obviously proves she is faster, but whatever), she would still be able to move at over 40 feet per second, or in 13 seconds, over 500 feet. I don't think Thor is staying 500 feet away from Thanos and Hela.

Except Hela literally never did this. Hela always took her time attacking Thor. Do you really think she's just going to all out sprint now? Come on... That's besides the fact that Thor won't be getting tagged like that

Additionally, this was just the glancing blade, it literally just clipped his soldier, the one that went inside his body took him out for over a minute.

This is true, however, you left out the important part of this scene that Thor was talking to Heimdall and was speared totally unaware. Thor was literally looking the other way when Hela attacked him with spears, so yeah, she's gonna get a more direct hit. That's not going to happen in this battle

>Hela dodges in literally both the gif above and below this scan whereas she only ever blocked Gungir on the pointy part twice, and that still wouldn't happen with Stormbreaker since the entire tip isn't pierced. Hela can easily block the side of Stormbreaker like she did Gungir.

Do you mean block the blunt edge, like this?

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Hela doesn't have the feats to do so. Stop reaching

Holy shit dude, you said this and then literally immediately posted this gif

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Thor can use Stormbreaker just as easily as a sword, then I showed an example of Thor tagging Hela.. What's wrong with that again?

Like are you high? Also, Thor clearly didn't come close to hitting Hela in that gif.

No

Actually, he hits her in the face cleanly.. How can you not see that? Stormbreaker would cut her head clean off, man

Was Hela just "staying out of the way" when she tagged Thor twice so that if she wasn't dealing with many things she would've killed him?

Conveniently one of those two times was when Thor was looking away and talking to Heimdall, and the fact that Thor didn't have Stormbreaker to block with

Compare how many times Hela tried to tag Thor with blades to how many times she did. 6/8 Blocked or dodges by Thor, and both of the times Thor was hit wouldn't happen in this battle

Yes hitting someone while they're pinned and while they aren't looking, truly the greatest feats of blitzing/hitting before they can react of all time.

Also hitting someone before they react isn't a blitz at all, it's literally just landing a punch. I guess fodder soldiers in AoU have blitzed Thor before making him sub human speed?

The definition of "Blitz" disagrees with you. Again, to "blitz" someone is to hit them with a sudden attack. Also, you have provided no evidence of an AOU solider hitting Thor. The only instance where Thor was hit was while he was attacking another solider, or he could have been tanking the hit. I'd like to note that it sounds desperate to compare Thor tanking a hit from a regular human to Thor hitting Hela like this:

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Just a thought

Summary:

I have proven that Thor can easily hit Thanos with Stormbreaker from across the bifrost bridge, then call Stormbreaker back to himself and 1v1 Hela for the win. My Opponent, on the other hand, has failed to disprove this argument

Scenario Two:

  1. That's a bullrush
  2. I literally mentioned that feat when I claimed it was OOC(which I've conceded)
  3. If he tries that with Stormbreaker, it'll fail... badly and fatally

1) A blitz is hitting someone with a sudden attack. You seem to have a hard time with definitions

2) Well, I'm happy you have conceded

3) Sure, prove that? No? Awe..

So let me get this straight again for the record. Thor was like inches away from punching Hela, but in that time, Hela summoned a sword and covered a larger distance to gut Thor before he could land the punch

But that's totally not Hela being faster then Thor or anything, in fact it somehow proves she's slower, cuz you know, unbias or smth.

Come on, Kev. Her blades increase her reach how can you not see that?

Because Thor was doing hit and run the entire time. After that scene, pairing with Valkyrie, Thor never fought Hela more then for like 15 seconds or so at once and then run. That's not a luxury he can afford here when he's outnumbered.

It's also not a luxury he requires. Thor couldn't put her down pre amp, but now he can

Summary:

My Opponent has failed to prove Thor can't use a bullrush on Thanos, then 1v1 Hela. On the other hand, I have proven that this is a viable strategy

Scenario Three:

>obviously outskills and lol stomps Hulk due to speed/skill which Thor failed to do

Thanos was stronger than Hulk, so he could overpower him. Thor was weaker than Hulk, so he had to use skill

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Vast difference to anyone looking without bias

>no real skill or speed feats

Thor has plenty of "real" skill feats, but Thanos really doesn't have many impressive ones

or

>showed matching Thor in speed

Not at all... The scene cuts and is not applicable

>no real speed feats

Besides outpacing the Hulk, not really

I guess since matching Thor isn't a speed feat, Thor is slow?

No, but that was one of the worst attempts I've ever seen to lowball Thor's Speed/Skill

I still think Hela only got hit with lightning, but even if she didn't, Thor only managed to touch Hela's headdress with his ranged weaopns. Which I guess I should be impressed with for some reason?

While Thor actually did get a direct hit, you said he couldn't tag Hela at all, so this is an improvement on your part

You're right, I apologize, clearly if we compare the two gifs, we can see who is more skilled

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Yeah, that really looks like Thor is using more speed and skill.

I realize you aren't serious, but what you said is correct in this instance. Which is a better showing of skill? Captain America beating a regular human or a regular human beating Captain America?

Plus in this instance, Thanos's physicals literally would not matter as neither of them got tagged and we're just comparing speed/skill, not who put Hulk down. In the two gifs you can clearly see Thanos landing more hits in a shorter amount of time and obviously making greater use of skill.

This is actually untrue. Since Thor couldn't put Hulk down as quickly he had far more opportunities to be tagged than Thanos did

Summary:

My Opponent has not proven his team can beat Thor even in CQC. I have proven that Thor is more skilled, faster, has lightning that can stun/KO his opponents, and a one-shot weapon. These advantages turn in to a solid victory for Thor

Reviewing Thor's Winning Advantages:

-Speed/Skill: Thor is still faster and more skilled than both Thanos and Hela

-Flight: Thor still uses his flight in combat as Kev even admitted, and Thor is still the only one here who possesses this ability

-Lightning: Thor can still incapacitate or KO Hela or Thanos with Lightning

-Stormbreaker: Thor can still one-shot either Hela or Thanos with Stormbreaker, as well as block Hela's blades

Speed/Skill:

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Thor already outpaced Hela On-Screen and is perfectly capable of blocking/dodging Hela's blades

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And even if Hela tries to overload Thor with multiple blades he can block them with Stormbreaker

Thanos lacks the skill or speed feats to even compete with Thor

The Take Away From This:

I have proven Thor is faster and more skilled than either Thanos or Hela, and that he can block Hela's blades casually. My Opponent has failed to prove otherwise

Flight:

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Thor is perfectly capable of bullrushing Hela or Thanos

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As well as hitting his opponents with Lightning while he's flying. Keep in mind Thor's lightning has already KO'd Hela with Lightning

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And using for throwing Stormbreaker or channeling Lightning through the ground

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Thor can also blitz mid flight

The Take Away From This:

Thor can easily use his Flight for blitzing, bullrushing, throwing Stormbreaker, and for raining lightning down from the sky to KO Hela or Thanos

Lightning:

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Thor can call down lightning from the sky casually to KO Hela or Thanos. Thor has already done this On-Screen, and Kev has not disproven this whatsoever. His head cannon of Hela falling in to some imaginary hole is not seen On-Screen

The Take Away From This:

I have proven Thor can KO both Hela and Thanos with Lightning from the sky, and my Opponent has failed to disprove this

Stormbreaker:

Simply put, this is Thor's one-shot weapon

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Thor has already one-shot Thanos

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Hela was pierced through by a regular Asgardian weapon, but even besides that Hela has no actual piercing durability feats on par with Stormbreaer, so she's either weak to piercing or weak to Asgardian weapons, and Stormbreaker cuts Hela in half either way

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Even the blunt force from Stormbreaker alone is more than enough to put down Thanos or Hela

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Or a lightning strike to the ground

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All of this destruction was confirmed to be from Thor's attack

The Take Away From This:

Thor can easily one-shot either Hela or Thanos with Stormbreaker, as he has shown On-Screen. My Opponent has barely even tried to counter this because he knows it's an unavoidable truth that Stormbreaker can One-Shot either of Thor's opponents

How Thor's Advantages Turn In To A Victory:

Scenario One:

Ranged Scenario:

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Right at the beginning of the fight Thor can start with lightning to daze his opponents, then use Stormbreaker all from the other side of the Bifrost bridge (This will keep him out of Hela's range)

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Or Thor can go for the easier route: Simply throwing Stormbreaker at Thanos (From Across the Bifrost Bridge) and telekinetically aiming Stormbreaker to hit Thanos

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Either way can't really fail. Thor's lightning from the sky is too powerful for Thanos or Hela to shrug off, so they will at minimum be dazed (More Likely KO'd), then Thor throws Stormbreaker through Thanos chest

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And Thor can easily direct Stormbreaker from a distance in to Thanos' chest

Once Thanos is out of the picture this becomes a 1v1

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I have made it abundantly clear that Thor is faster and more skilled

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Couple that with his ability to KO Hela

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And the ability to One-Shot Hela with Stormbreaker

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And the ability to block Hela's blades

Thor simply can't lose

Summary:

Thor can easily eliminate Thanos in the first few seconds of the fight by either spamming lightning, then throwing Stormbreaker, or just throwing Stormbreaker and telekinetically aiming it in to Thanos' chest or head, and there won't be an IG to help block Stormbreaker now

Once Thanos is gone, Thor will simply take care of Hela, and I've proven that he can via Speed, Skill, Lightning, Flight, and Stormbreaker

Scenario Two:

Blitz Scenario:

Thor can blitz Thanos immediately, eliminating him from the battle

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This particular gif is interesting, because my opponent claims that no blade will hit Thanos if Thor just bullrushes, but if you look closely, you will see the blade definitely extends to where part of the sharp end is on the top of Stormbreaker

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This means that the blade would in fact hit Thanos if Thor were to bullrush in to him

Once Thanos is gone, Thor deals with Hela, and I've already proven that he can deal with Hela

Summary:

Thor can easily blitz Thanos at mach speeds which will end him, then deal with Hela 1v1

Scenario Three:

CQC Scenario:

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Thor, as I've already shown, has no difficulty dealing with multiple opponents

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Couple that Skill and Speed with Thor's Lightning that can KO Hela and Thanos

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And with the ability to One-Shot his opponents close range, Thor simply can't lose

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Even if somehow Hela or Thanos pinned Thor down, he can simply done what he's already done On-Screen: Fry them with some Lightning which will KO or Kill Hela and Thanos

Summary:

This is the round my Opponent believes he has the best chance in, but really, Thanos and Hela don't have much hope of beating Thor at all. I've shown that Thor has a Speed/Skill Advantage, Flight, Lightning to KO/Kill Hela/Thanos, and Stormbreaker to One-Shot Thanos or Hela

Conclusion:

My Opponent has failed to prove his team can defeat Thor:

-He has failed to prove Thanos is much more than a non-factor in this fight

-He has failed to prove that Hela's blades can actually put Thor down

-He has failed to prove that his team can survive Thor's Lightning attacks or a hit from Stormbreaker

-He has failed to prove that his team can keep up with Thor

My Opponent has not even established a scenario where his team is victorious, not even one detailed example of how his team could win

On The Other Hand, I have explained exactly why Thor should win this battle:

-His Speed and Skill Advantages

-Thor's Flight aids him for blitzing and avoiding attacks

-Thor's Lightning has already KO'd Hela On-Screen and Thanos lacks the feats to tank it

-His Weapon, Stormbreaker, that can One-Shot either of his opponents, as well as block Hela's blades

I have also made it clear how these advantages work together to win this battle

-Using Thor's control over Stormbreaker to hit Thanos or Hela from across the Bifrost bridge

-Flight coupled with Stormbreaker for a blitz

-His Speed and Skill coupled with Lightning strikes or Stormbreaker hits for CQC

For these reasons, and because of the clarity I have shed on this topic, I ask for your vote

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#276 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#277 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

Noiz, imma read it.

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#278 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16603 posts) - - Show Bio

I see. So... It is done. I'll get to it before voting closes lol.

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#279 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio
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#280 Posted by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

If that's the best Xone can do Kev is going to have a field day...

Again.

He's been wrecking X throughout this whole debate.

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#281 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16603 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg: ...Then why do I keep getting tagged for this? Lol. I was not a "tag every post" guy. XD

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#282 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12000 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea...

I ain't voting. I just can't. No way to do it objectively.

Also, this is my new signature due to Discord reasons:

Bait.

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#283 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacensolo77: Can you please keep your opinions to yourself till the voting? Your pathetic comments are just that, pathetic

X

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#284 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Arf

(same reason as SG)

Bait.

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#285 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: I’m interested in hearing what you disagree with. PM me if you don’t mind

X

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#286 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

I asked for a tag for furture posts in this CaV.

Also your post was alright although I feel like Kev is winning.

@xzone said:

@jacensolo77: Can you please keep your opinions to yourself till the voting? Your pathetic comments are just that, pathetic

X

I mean the entire point of a CaV is for people to give their thoughts on it so why you're getting triggered by this is honestly confusing.

Maybe you're just salty because you're losing?

X

Avatar image for deactivated-5cae4704c27f5
#287 Posted by deactivated-5cae4704c27f5 (1660 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: You don't appear to understand the concept of bait, you walked right into my trap.

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#288 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#289 Posted by Syntix (641 posts) - - Show Bio

I don’t know why people think xzone is losing, he made a pretty good counters. GL to both of you, been reading the entire debates for a while and couldn’t wait to vote.

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#290 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio
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#291 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#292 Posted by ourmanuel (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

This CaV is so funny.

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#293 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#294 Posted by biswaboxz (3642 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are u Bumping this? If u need someone who is good in this then behold @supermanthor

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#295 Posted by Supermanthor (21759 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are u Bumping this? If u need someone who is good in this then behold @supermanthor

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#296 Posted by deactivated-5d07416730d08 (2261 posts) - - Show Bio

I smell salt.

X

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#297 Posted by phisigmatau (2067 posts) - - Show Bio

His palms are sweaty,

Knees weak stormbreakers heavy,

There's vomit on his armor already, Frigga's spaghetti,

He's nervous,

But on the surface his lightnings ready,

To summon storms,

But he keeps on forgetting,

He's not allowed,

To do anything that's out,

Of character so now,

We see that Xzone bows,

To the superior debater,

Peace I'm out.

Jokes Xzone it's just easier to fit your name into that. I look forward to seeing the modifications.

ahahahhaha

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#298 Posted by phisigmatau (2067 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone brings up so good points and the speal about superior thor skills then hela seems laughable @ first but the evidence solid
@kevd4wg stating hulk was going to win the gladiator one on one is pure comedy. As usual Thor held back in trying to get thru to bruce.
also Hela just seemed impervious. After Surtur shes gotta be the most powerful skillled base level McU character there is. idk if she every really got hurt-- we dont even no if she died.

I just cant see Thor taking this, my vote does go ti @xzone

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#299 Posted by Richubs (5929 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau:

If you just can't see Thor winning this then why have you voted for xZone he was arguing for Thor.

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#300 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio